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View Full Version : Big minus to Lion!




seniorgeek
Jul 29, 2011, 06:03 PM
Having just switched or should say in the process of getting my new Imac setup I have discovered one item that really upsets me. I own Windows Vista but I cannot use it on my new Imac with Lion preinstalled. I really need to use Windows for my website work utilizing Visual Web Developer Express, Web Matrix, Microsoft Access and other Windows software. I was hoping to use my Imac for this after installing Vista, but now I will need to keep the Windows machine going as I don't want to put out the cash for a copy of Windows 7. Other then this issue I am enjoying OSX Lion very much.



NameUndecided
Jul 29, 2011, 06:10 PM
Lion truly is Apple's Vista. It doesn't even support Windows Vista. :(

/uncalled-for facetiousness.


But really? Bootcamp or Parallels or no other program will allow a Windows Vista installation when Lion is on your Mac?

seniorgeek
Jul 29, 2011, 06:13 PM
Lion truly is Apple's Vista. It doesn't even support Windows Vista. :(

/uncalled-for facetiousness.


But really? Bootcamp or Parallels or no other program will allow a Windows Vista installation when Lion is on your Mac?

Everything I have read states that Lion only supports Windows 7 and not Vista or XP.

ohsnap
Jul 29, 2011, 06:25 PM
The problem afaik is that Apple no longer uses Samba in OS X, they have decided to roll their own SMB scheme which only uses the new SMB2 protocol found in Windows 7. They introduced SMB2 in Vista but Apple's protocol seems to be very finicky. I am having a hell of a time getting my Ubuntu Linux to connect to my Lion fileserver too. The fix for that would be to update to Samba 3.6 or 4 alpha. Netatalk has to be 2.2 because they changed AFP as well. I don't think there is any fix for Windows other than buying Windows 7.

bizzle
Jul 29, 2011, 06:45 PM
It will work fine in Parallels or Fusion. You could install Windows 98 in those if you really wanted to. The support you are referring to is Bootcamp support.

gr8tfly
Jul 29, 2011, 06:54 PM
Parallels runs XP fine in Lion (and, so, I presume Vista will too). I have XP in Bootcamp partition, which is used in the Parallels VM. However, you don't need Bootcamp to create a VM in Parallels - the usual method is to let Parallels create a virtual HD for the Windows VM. You only need Bootcamp [partition] if you need to run Windows natively. (I still have a VM running Win2k with a virtual HD.)

I can also boot into Bootcamp and run XP natively just fine. I'm running BC 3.1, which was installed, along with XP long ago. I don't use the drive sharing feature (to mount a Mac volume in Windows, whichcould be a possible area for conflict with Lion - cant say).

AFAIK, the issue with BC and Lion is the driver set. If you have BC 3.1, or a SL/L driver disk, installing an earlier version of Windows in BC should work. Just don't use the Lion driver disk. You still should use the Bootcamp Assistant to add or remove the BC partition.

RedRaven571
Jul 29, 2011, 06:55 PM
Everything I have read states that Lion only supports Windows 7 and not Vista or XP.

I have XP on my MBP and it seems to run fine, both in Fusion and Bootcamp. Maybe because XP was on the machine prior to installing Lion? :confused:

seniorgeek
Jul 29, 2011, 07:19 PM
Parallels runs XP fine in Lion (and, so, I presume Vista will too). I have XP in Bootcamp partition, which is used in the Parallels VM. However, you don't need Bootcamp to create a VM in Parallels - the usual method is to let Parallels create a virtual HD for the Windows VM. You only need Bootcamp [partition] if you need to run Windows natively. (I still have a VM running Win2k with a virtual HD.)

I can also boot into Bootcamp and run XP natively just fine. I'm running BC 3.1, which was installed, along with XP long ago. I don't use the drive sharing feature (to mount a Mac volume in Windows, whichcould be a possible area for conflict with Lion - cant say).

AFAIK, the issue with BC and Lion is the driver set. If you have BC 3.1, or a SL/L driver disk, installing an earlier version of Windows in BC should work. Just don't use the Lion driver disk. You still should use the Bootcamp Assistant to add or remove the BC partition.

My new Imac came with Lion preinstalled with no disks at all. I'll do some more research and see Vista is installable without using Bootcamp.

Parallels runs XP fine in Lion (and, so, I presume Vista will too). I have XP in Bootcamp partition, which is used in the Parallels VM. However, you don't need Bootcamp to create a VM in Parallels - the usual method is to let Parallels create a virtual HD for the Windows VM. You only need Bootcamp [partition] if you need to run Windows natively. (I still have a VM running Win2k with a virtual HD.)

I can also boot into Bootcamp and run XP natively just fine. I'm running BC 3.1, which was installed, along with XP long ago. I don't use the drive sharing feature (to mount a Mac volume in Windows, whichcould be a possible area for conflict with Lion - cant say).

AFAIK, the issue with BC and Lion is the driver set. If you have BC 3.1, or a SL/L driver disk, installing an earlier version of Windows in BC should work. Just don't use the Lion driver disk. You still should use the Bootcamp Assistant to add or remove the BC partition.

I cannot seem to find any information on installing anything other then Windows 7 on a new Imac with Lion preinstalled.

gr8tfly
Jul 29, 2011, 07:22 PM
My new Imac came with Lion preinstalled with no disks at all. I'll do some more research and see Vista is installable without using Bootcamp.

It could also be that earlier BC driver sets won't support the current GPU, and other hardware in your new iMac. I was thinking of earlier machines. The option in that case would be to manually download the individual hw drivers for GPU, Audio, WiFi, and the like. You wouldn't have proper use of the trackpad (like 2-finger secondary click), though. I haven't tried it myself, but it might be possible to use an older BC disk and just bypass the unknown devices. Just a thought.

That all said, if you don't need to run Windows natively, then I highly recommend running a VM under Parallels. It does support hw accelerated 3D graphics from within the VM, though with some performance hit compared with native (usually, you'd need to run natively if you're doing something requiring intensive GPU support - usually gaming). Overall performance in Parallels is very good - I've even run NASCAR's 3D Raceview, and it runs fine (in Win2k, no less).

borisiii
Jul 29, 2011, 07:37 PM
I cannot seem to find any information on installing anything other then Windows 7 on a new Imac with Lion preinstalled.

I read somewhere that the 2011 Macs only support Windows 7 on boot camp. I don't think it's related to lion.

kevin2i
Jul 29, 2011, 09:50 PM
Unless running games or processor intensive programs, why does everyone want to boot to windows? Unless you need windows all the time, what's wrong with running windows in a virtual machine?

Why do you guys like to pay for software? VirtualBox is free and works fine. I actually have VirtualBox on my MP and MBP. I set up one windows machine, on each, the set up then MP with all my programs, files, then copied the .vdi to the MBP. I did get an "unauthorized copy of windows" message once, but just re-copied the vdi (virtual HD) to the MBP again. It's been working for 9 months.

I need it for Quickbooks, and checking web projects on IE. (Quickbooks files are stored in dropbox, so I can access QB from a variety of PC's)

VirtualBox works fine the the GM, so I assume it is fine with Lion. (I'll get the release at 10.7.1).

seniorgeek
Jul 29, 2011, 10:49 PM
Unless running games or processor intensive programs, why does everyone want to boot to windows? Unless you need windows all the time, what's wrong with running windows in a virtual machine?

Why do you guys like to pay for software? VirtualBox is free and works fine. I actually have VirtualBox on my MP and MBP. I set up one windows machine, on each, the set up then MP with all my programs, files, then copied the .vdi to the MBP. I did get an "unauthorized copy of windows" message once, but just re-copied the vdi (virtual HD) to the MBP again. It's been working for 9 months.

I need it for Quickbooks, and checking web projects on IE. (Quickbooks files are stored in dropbox, so I can access QB from a variety of PC's)

VirtualBox works fine the the GM, so I assume it is fine with Lion. (I'll get the release at 10.7.1).

The point is either the 2011 Imacs do not support installing Vista or it is not possible using Bootcamp. I don't are how it gets done, I am just trying to save some money by not buying Windows 7 and using the licensed copy of Vista that I now own. I don't care about booting into windows, I just need
Windows on my new Imac. So if you know for a fact that the issue is not the 2011 Imac and is Bootcamp that does not allow the installation of Vista point me to the data so I can confirm it. Or point me to the data that tells me how to install Vista on a 2011 Imac with Lion installed on it. I hope this now makes the issue clearer.

seniorgeek
Jul 30, 2011, 02:12 PM
The point is either the 2011 Imacs do not support installing Vista or it is not possible using Bootcamp. I don't are how it gets done, I am just trying to save some money by not buying Windows 7 and using the licensed copy of Vista that I now own. I don't care about booting into windows, I just need
Windows on my new Imac. So if you know for a fact that the issue is not the 2011 Imac and is Bootcamp that does not allow the installation of Vista point me to the data so I can confirm it. Or point me to the data that tells me how to install Vista on a 2011 Imac with Lion installed on it. I hope this now makes the issue clearer.

Well I installed VirtualBox and my OEM install of Windows Vista successfully, I then installed Quicken 2010, Visual Web Developer Express, ASP Net 4.0 and a few other programs. To me this is absolutely useless, trying to run applications in the small virtual window is not workable to me. I cannot see anyway to make the window larger, am I missing something? My 2 choices are to keep my Windows box or buy Windows 7 and install with Bootcamp.

How do folks run windows on their Mac machines in the small virtual window successfully?

*LTD*
Jul 30, 2011, 02:15 PM
OS X allowing you to install Windows is *not* a feature. It's a crutch. Hopefully you'll learn to go without it in due course.

AdrianK
Jul 30, 2011, 02:17 PM
Well I installed VirtualBox and my OEM install of Windows Vista successfully, I then installed Quicken 2010, Visual Web Developer Express, ASP Net 4.0 and a few other programs. To me this is absolutely useless, trying to run applications in the small virtual window is not workable to me. I cannot see anyway to make the window larger, am I missing something? My 2 choices are to keep my Windows box or buy Windows 7 and install with Bootcamp.

How do folks run windows on their Mac machines in the small virtual window successfully?

Yes :P I have not used virtual box in a while, but I can absolutely guarantee you that VB has an option to go full screen.

OS X allowing you to install Windows is *not* a feature. It's a crutch. Hopefully you'll learn to go without it in due course.
You sir, are a class act.

seniorgeek
Jul 30, 2011, 02:22 PM
OS X allowing you to install Windows is *not* a feature. It's a crutch. Hopefully you'll learn to go without it in due course.

I can't do without it unless mac offers open source software such as Web Matrix, Visual Web Developer Express, ASP,net and others required to design and run BlogEngine.net. Microsoft does a great job with open source web developer software. Everything else I can do on my new Imac.

MisterDisney
Jul 30, 2011, 02:24 PM
When Microsoft finally fixed Vista, they decided to rename it, "Windows 7." So this makes sense.

seniorgeek
Jul 30, 2011, 02:42 PM
When Microsoft finally fixed Vista, they decided to rename it, "Windows 7." So this makes sense.

I am one of the people that loves Vista, I have never had an issue with it in the 3 years I have been running it, my Windows machine has nerver locked up or crashed on me. Also never has any virus or spyware issues with it. One of the reasons I decided to try a Mac is that I was just bored with it, it just keeps on working.

Tozzi
Jul 30, 2011, 02:51 PM
I have to agree (again, just my own, personal experience).
Vista was a huge step in the right direction.
It had its problems, but it always worked fine for me.

Can't say the same about Lion, sadly.
My only hope is that by 10.7.1 or 10.7.2 most of my showstoppers will be ironed out. And I'm glad I'm not stuck with it and bought my MBP just in time so I can keep working under SL for now.

Icy1007
Jul 30, 2011, 02:52 PM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 4: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

I'd say apple only supporting Windows 7 is a plus for Lion. Why should Apple have to support anything but the latest version of Windows? It's their competitor's OS.