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tigres
Jul 30, 2011, 09:27 AM
I'll keep this short and to the point:

For curiosity sake, who updated to Lion but for various reasons switched back to SL?

You can post your reasons if you so choose.



QuarterSwede
Jul 30, 2011, 09:44 AM
I didn't. Lion has some big graphical changes but I'm just about used to them. I really love Mail now that I'm using the Favorites bar and hiding the Mailbox List. I also like that everything is quicker or at the very least just as fast as it was in Snow Leopard for me.

The only issue I have is with Mission Control and not being able to assign fullscreen apps to their own desktop/space. As a Spaces power user that bugs me (Ex. I always want Safari before Mail).

ditzy
Jul 30, 2011, 09:53 AM
I sort of wish that I hadn't let my curiosity get the better of me and download lion so quickly. Evernote and Carbonite don't seem to play nicely with it yet. But I have no doubt that they will in the near future. Otherwise I'm enjoying lion and am not thinking of going back.

Mackilroy
Jul 30, 2011, 10:14 AM
The only issue I have is with Mission Control and not being able to assign fullscreen apps to their own desktop/space. As a Spaces power user that bugs me (Ex. I always want Safari before Mail).
You can still do that. Right-click on applications and you'll see an option to assign it to a desktop.

EDIT: Oh wait, fullscreen apps. Never mind!

rubenarthe
Jul 30, 2011, 10:32 AM
I did't find useful Mission Control (Exposé was simple & better for me), the Apps folder gone and LaunchPad make me loose time. The one who make me donwgrade was the Autosave feature, it is good for students and home users but not for PROS, we like to have FULL CONTROL and decide when and what to save, and when to choose Save As... It was a nightmare.

Amberfool
Jul 30, 2011, 10:38 AM
Maybe I'm just a big Apple fan-boy inside, but I've never really had any big problems with Apple, either on the software or hardware side, and Lion is no exception. Mail 5.0 is a massive improvement, both full-screen apps and Mission Control are great, and I could never even think about going back to spaces and expose. The UI changes are all nice, and while it took a day or two to get used to scrolling is not an issue either. If I were to have any problems with Lion, it would be on the way they handled side to side swiping, with the two finger swipe in Safari, 3 fingers in the rest of the OS, and 4 to get between desktops and all in varying directions, it is a bit badly thought out. Other then that, and a few minor and not very annoying bugs, it's been going great and I have absolutely no plans to go back to SL. ;)

QuarterSwede
Jul 30, 2011, 10:39 AM
I did't find useful Mission Control (Exposé was simple & better for me), the Apps folder gone and LaunchPad make me loose time. The one who make me donwgrade was the Autosave feature, it is good for students and home users but not for PROS, we like to have FULL CONTROL and decide when and what to save, and when to choose Save As... It was a nightmare.
Autosave/Versions is nothing more than a bonus (and the future. I would put money on it being added to Windows in the future).

If you want to save the old way then you can still do that with Save Duplicate. Personally, I think Apple should've left it named Save to avoid confusion.

Cinder6
Jul 30, 2011, 10:54 AM
I still don't understand the hate for "Save Duplicate". It's almost 100% identical to the old "Save As" dialog, except that it opens an extra window. Somehow, that is the end of the world.

That, or people don't see Save As anywhere and assume it's gone. Oddly enough, it's only the self-styled "pros" I see getting upset about this, while other people seem to have no problem. Kind of odd; you'd think the pros would be able to figure out how it works.

Same with the complaints of the "missing" app folder. I think a pro would realize it's trivial to get it back. Just drag the damn thing to the dock. Of course, I'd also think a pro would use something faster than manually navigating a bunch of icons--Spotlight at the least, but maybe even a dedicated solution like Alfred or LaunchBar.

fisherking
Jul 30, 2011, 11:00 AM
eventually, SL (a GREAT OS), will become the new 10.4.11 (LOL), and those who stayed behind will find themselves LEFT behind...and will HAVE to update (to run things that will inevitably require a more-current OS.

for now, whatever works i guess. am sticking with Lion (and impatiently awaiting 7.1, 7.2, etc)...

siwsan
Jul 30, 2011, 11:17 AM
Ho-hum.. :)

On July 19 I predicted that around 24% of all who installed Lion would shortly go back to Snow Leopard:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12966726&postcount=40

The poll indicates, at the time of writing this post, a percentage with just a few decimals above 24%. Told you ;)

chillvisio
Jul 30, 2011, 11:25 AM
I've never left Snow Leopard. Just tested iOS Lion GM on my external drive and after finding out that it is of no use for my productive work I just wiped it out. Happy to not throw away my 30 bucks. I've made a great dinner for my girlfriend with these $30 ;)

soulreaver99
Jul 30, 2011, 10:25 PM
I just nuked my install of Lion and did a clean install. Most of the glitchiness has been fixed. Upgrade path had too many issues


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hexonxonx
Jul 31, 2011, 03:26 AM
Lion. Wouldn't think about going back to SL.

2Shae
Jul 31, 2011, 02:49 PM
Lion is a very decent and needed upgrade from SL.
Reverting to an older OS is just rediculous in my opinion.

What possible reason would a person have to actually revert back? (aside from the obvious software incompatibilities that might occur)

cas85
Jul 31, 2011, 03:07 PM
how many polls of the same topic can be posted in a 10 day period? maybe you should make that into a poll. for the record, i would but i'm too lazy to backup/install only to be curious of what 10.7.1 brings.

tigres
Jul 31, 2011, 03:24 PM
What possible reason would a person have to actually revert back? (aside from the obvious software incompatibilities that might occur)

Some users need an OS to operate correctly to do business; as for me, Lion borked 4 of my main required programs from an operational standpoint. They include: Mail, Finder shortcuts to shared server folders, iCal w/IMAP settings, Xcode- (this only scratches the surface actually)

how many polls of the same topic can be posted in a 10 day period? maybe you should make that into a poll. for the record, i would but i'm too lazy to backup/install only to be curious of what 10.7.1 brings.

If there are so many polls of which you are complaining about, maybe there is some validity. I see some 25% of users downgrading- according to this poll. Not sure of the other 10 polls.

buckers
Jul 31, 2011, 06:03 PM
I put it on my older Mac. I'm happy with it overall, but am gonna wait for it to mature a bit before I put it on my main machine. I've encountered a few bugs.

handel30
Jul 31, 2011, 06:14 PM
I loved Snow Leopard, but Lion is even better. Wouldn't go back for anything. Some people were calling Lion Apple's Vista, but my last laptop was Vista and there's no comparing them. Lion is light years ahead and much more convenient and fun to use.

spronkey
Jul 31, 2011, 09:00 PM
Back to SL for me. I've always been a bit apprehensive when it comes to upgrading ever since Tiger came out. From 10.1 -> .2 and -> .3 was easy - it was all new features and performance, and basically nothing taken away.

Tiger .4 concerned me given I had old hardware at the time, but I jumped straight on the bandwagon when I went Intel.

Leopard was a hard sell, I was concerned that the silly new 3D dock etc. would slow my system down (and I was right, but thankfully you can turn it 2D. Yus!).

Snow Leopard was about the easiest decision in the world, but I instantly regretted it because it ruined Expose for me by removing the relative sizings of windows, and moving the windows around too much.

Lion... well. What a cluster****. If all you do with your Mac is use it in isolation for web browsing, mail, and the occasional video, go ahead. It's got some new eye candy (Mail, iCal, Launchpad, rubber band scrolling - yuck), and some features that dumb down some of the previously power-user features and make them more accessible (Mission Control).

But if you use your mac as a serious tool... well... Here's a list for you:
It's slower. (Post indexing, on both a Late 2008 Unibody 15" MBP, 2011 13" MBP) The new gestures are disgusting. The thumb pinch is impossible, and the 2 finger swipe clashes with scrolling and doesn't work properly outside Safari. Mission Control, while a good feature of its own accord, is not a replacement for Spaces and Expose. Why did Apple have to take these features away? What's wrong with having both Mission Control and the old Spaces/Expose? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me... The new autosave document model might be "the way of the future", but when it comes to network devices and removable storage, YAY for holding on to billions of file handles and ****ing up my battery life, sleep routines, and general chi. iCal peaked in 10.4. Ever since, it's been going downhill in terms of usability. This new leather feel is just another kick in the guts. The multi-monitor issues. Display colour profiles not working on multimonitor systems, fullscreen apps not working on multimonitor systems, mission control being spastic on multimonitor systems... where's the quality control?! There have been numerous issues with regards to upgrading from old installs. While it's always a bit of a hot topic, it's just another thorn in the side. Safari 5.1 has serious issues. Memory leaks galore leaving me with no available RAM and causing my system to swap like a mofo. Extremely uncool. Finder. Oh dear. "All my files" has no place on the system of anyone who knows what a file is, and this new grouped inline coverflow view is both tacky (like Coverflow itself), and extremely slow. Finder's sidebar is now even less useful. Compare and contrast to Windows 7. Sigh.


I expected a lot more. I was looking forward to some of the cooler features of iOS - like saving application state, and good integration with things like GMail. I certainly didn't expect my operating system to start making decisions about which of my apps to keep open. I know this better than any algorithm ever will, Apple.

So, I reverted back to Snow Leopard (and in fact suprred me to find a Beta version of SL's Dock.app to get 10.5's expose, which I find vastly superior to SL's). It's better than SL has ever been for me - I highly recommend it.

What really irks me is the cavalier attitude Apple are now taking toward more professional users like myself. Previous editions of Mac OS X didn't really take away features; certainly not ones as prominent as Spaces and Expose - yet they are content to simply wipe the board clean with new UI tools that I believe one could empirically prove worse.

In the past, OS X felt like it was built by a team of interaction designers. People that understood how both novice and expert users work with computers, and who were able to craft a solid experience across the whole spectrum. Now, OS X feels like it's drawn by graphic designers and animators, who are concerned with flashy eye candy and have little regard to the human-computer interaction.

I love my Macbook Pro. There's nothing even remotely close to the form factor in the PC world. But I find myself longing for the utilitarianism that is Windows. (The lack of a 1440x900 panel and low-cost SSD on the now-rather-overpriced 13" Macbook Pro really isn't helping either)...

whitedragon101
Jul 31, 2011, 09:28 PM
What really irks me is the cavalier attitude Apple are now taking toward more professional users like myself. Previous editions of Mac OS X didn't really take away features; certainly not ones as prominent as Spaces and Expose - yet they are content to simply wipe the board clean with new UI tools that I believe one could empirically prove worse.


Bingo +1

tigres
Aug 1, 2011, 07:09 AM
Back to SL for me. I've always been a bit apprehensive when it comes to upgrading ever since Tiger came out. From 10.1 -> .2 and -> .3 was easy - it was all new features and performance, and basically nothing taken away.

Tiger .4 concerned me given I had old hardware at the time, but I jumped straight on the bandwagon when I went Intel.

Leopard was a hard sell, I was concerned that the silly new 3D dock etc. would slow my system down (and I was right, but thankfully you can turn it 2D. Yus!).

Snow Leopard was about the easiest decision in the world, but I instantly regretted it because it ruined Expose for me by removing the relative sizings of windows, and moving the windows around too much.

Lion... well. What a cluster****. If all you do with your Mac is use it in isolation for web browsing, mail, and the occasional video, go ahead. It's got some new eye candy (Mail, iCal, Launchpad, rubber band scrolling - yuck), and some features that dumb down some of the previously power-user features and make them more accessible (Mission Control).

But if you use your mac as a serious tool... well... Here's a list for you:
It's slower. (Post indexing, on both a Late 2008 Unibody 15" MBP, 2011 13" MBP) The new gestures are disgusting. The thumb pinch is impossible, and the 2 finger swipe clashes with scrolling and doesn't work properly outside Safari. Mission Control, while a good feature of its own accord, is not a replacement for Spaces and Expose. Why did Apple have to take these features away? What's wrong with having both Mission Control and the old Spaces/Expose? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me... The new autosave document model might be "the way of the future", but when it comes to network devices and removable storage, YAY for holding on to billions of file handles and ****ing up my battery life, sleep routines, and general chi. iCal peaked in 10.4. Ever since, it's been going downhill in terms of usability. This new leather feel is just another kick in the guts. The multi-monitor issues. Display colour profiles not working on multimonitor systems, fullscreen apps not working on multimonitor systems, mission control being spastic on multimonitor systems... where's the quality control?! There have been numerous issues with regards to upgrading from old installs. While it's always a bit of a hot topic, it's just another thorn in the side. Safari 5.1 has serious issues. Memory leaks galore leaving me with no available RAM and causing my system to swap like a mofo. Extremely uncool. Finder. Oh dear. "All my files" has no place on the system of anyone who knows what a file is, and this new grouped inline coverflow view is both tacky (like Coverflow itself), and extremely slow. Finder's sidebar is now even less useful. Compare and contrast to Windows 7. Sigh.


I expected a lot more. I was looking forward to some of the cooler features of iOS - like saving application state, and good integration with things like GMail. I certainly didn't expect my operating system to start making decisions about which of my apps to keep open. I know this better than any algorithm ever will, Apple.

So, I reverted back to Snow Leopard (and in fact suprred me to find a Beta version of SL's Dock.app to get 10.5's expose, which I find vastly superior to SL's). It's better than SL has ever been for me - I highly recommend it.

What really irks me is the cavalier attitude Apple are now taking toward more professional users like myself. Previous editions of Mac OS X didn't really take away features; certainly not ones as prominent as Spaces and Expose - yet they are content to simply wipe the board clean with new UI tools that I believe one could empirically prove worse.

In the past, OS X felt like it was built by a team of interaction designers. People that understood how both novice and expert users work with computers, and who were able to craft a solid experience across the whole spectrum. Now, OS X feels like it's drawn by graphic designers and animators, who are concerned with flashy eye candy and have little regard to the human-computer interaction.

I love my Macbook Pro. There's nothing even remotely close to the form factor in the PC world. But I find myself longing for the utilitarianism that is Windows. (The lack of a 1440x900 panel and low-cost SSD on the now-rather-overpriced 13" Macbook Pro really isn't helping either)...

Well said. Completely agree although I wish I didn't have to.

blackburn
Aug 1, 2011, 07:31 AM
I'm not a professional user, I'm a student and a power user, and lion is making me walk away from mac os x if it stays this way. I have to agree with spronkey, professional users and power users are getting the boot.
Apple should have left the iPad stuff iPad only, stupefying mac os x was a stupid idea.

In the past, OS X felt like it was built by a team of interaction designers. People that understood how both novice and expert users work with computers, and who were able to craft a solid experience across the whole spectrum. Now, OS X feels like it's drawn by graphic designers and animators, who are concerned with flashy eye candy and have little regard to the human-computer interaction.
^This. +10^99

Dark Void
Aug 1, 2011, 07:45 AM
I just downright stuck with Snow Leopard from the get-go. I know this thread is for those that have reverted back to Snow Leopard, but I still have some relevant input.

Lion just didn't seem to offer anything special, really. It had a few watered down features and nothing presented seemed to appeal to me. Sure, it's $30, but I am not going to spend that much money when it's not beneficial.

I can't really speak on the flow of the operating system as I have not gone near it, but in terms of the preliminary decision, it didn't seem to offer anything that was actually new or appealing, just work-arounds to previous things that Snow Leopard did just fine.

ChristianJapan
Aug 1, 2011, 07:51 AM
I stay with LIon on my systems, but I might need to revert the MBP frm my wife. She says: the new System s<beep>s.
Gestures are fine but the laggy Japanese keyboard is killing her. As I'm not typing soo fast and often Japanese I don't mind; she is doing it every day. So when no patch comes I need to go back on her machine

JParsley
Aug 1, 2011, 07:55 AM
Autosave/Versions is nothing more than a bonus (and the future. I would put money on it being added to Windows in the future).

If you want to save the old way then you can still do that with Save Duplicate. Personally, I think Apple should've left it named Save to avoid confusion.

Windows has been doing this for quite a while, although not quite the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Copy

kirky29
Aug 1, 2011, 07:57 AM
Nope, Lion is great, runs loads faster than Snow Leopard, looks nicer and has so many great improvements.

I don't think I could ever go back to Snow Leopard...

robeddie
Aug 1, 2011, 08:03 AM
I reverted back.

On both machines I installed it on, I got the wifi cutting out problem.

Also, Lion generally felt to me like a lot of extranious eye candy globbed on. It 'felt' gerry rigged.

Now back at Snow Leopard, it feels like a lean, tight operating system again.

I know one day I'll HAVE to move to Lion (or maybe just wait for Snow Lion, or whatever the frick they decide to call the OS that follows Lion) but I'll hold off for quite a while.

saxon48
Aug 1, 2011, 11:54 AM
Sticking with Lion, most definitely. Love the new changes and features.

chillvisio
Aug 1, 2011, 01:34 PM
Ouch, 25.57% left the most 'advanced' and innovative' iOS ever, and still counting ;)

Damers
Aug 1, 2011, 02:52 PM
Spronkey makes all the points I would. I use my MBP in the physical sciences, physics, and there are plenty of tools that were designed years ago but still work great however they need rosetta. I get a laugh when people say that these old apps should be retired and re-written. Would they like to re-write a 100K+ line magnetohydrodynamic simulation code in cocoa?!

I'll stick with SL thanks very much. Luckily I bought a 2010 MBP with SL install disks so I'll just bury my head in the sand for another two years until apple releases 10.8 or 11.0 or whatever... Hopefully Lion will be something we can laugh about then.

Gemütlichkeit
Aug 1, 2011, 03:10 PM
Lion out of the box is great.

I've been using all of the new (main) features of the OS. Full screen apps, launch pad, mission control..etc

Haven't had one issue yet. Using the new scrolling method took me 15 minutes to get used to.

blackburn
Aug 1, 2011, 03:31 PM
The only problem is if my macbook suddenly dies or suffers an accident, all new machines have lion pre-installed and since apple doesn't provide drivers for older os, you can't just slap a snow leopard dvd and install it. I've tried by pure curiosity instating leopard on my macbook, it ran but it would heat up like mad, and somethings weren't working.

klaxamazoo
Aug 1, 2011, 03:39 PM
I've been upgrading with OSX since Panther and this is the first time I've ever downgraded.

- Mission Control sucks. Let's play hide the windows.
- Gray finder icons sucks. Thanks for making it harder for my old eyes
- No toolbar button on finder sucks
- Address Book looks annoying and it only shows two columns of information
- iCal time text color is now an even lighter than before and really hard to read
- Awake from sleep time is longer
- "Duplicate" is stupid if you have large documents open. Now I have to use twice the ram and close a window just to do "Save As"
- No "Skip" and "All" option when copying/replacing files in finder. Who's brilliant idea was that? Why would I want to copy 9 gigs of data to update a folder with 10 megs of new files spread throughout it

The only good things were gestures and versions.

scottsjack
Aug 1, 2011, 03:51 PM
I switched the MP back to SL. The lack of the smooth operating Spaces, no support from Xrite for the ancient monitor calibrator and all that iOS ugliness was just too much for me.

Lion is still running on my late 2008 MBP. FileVault 2 is working without a hitch. Everyday I learn a little more about how to turn off, disable or fix the Lion/iToys ugliness. Just today the mods at MacNix changed the skins on iCal and Address Book so I don't want to throw up when I look at them.

So far Lion has been doing well on the laptop. I haven't run into very many of the issues I've been reading about. Other than behind the scenes security I haven't seen anything that makes Lion a Must Have compared to SL.

janitor1999
Aug 1, 2011, 04:19 PM
Switched to lion on all macs on release day, switched my quad core i5 back two days later because i didn't like losing Front row, switched it back again today when i found out i could install it.

samwf
Aug 1, 2011, 05:53 PM
Upgraded to Lion and right away didn't love the changes to gestures and scrolling, but knew I could get used to that. Next thing I noticed was that my 1 month old MBP ran much slower on Lion, which disappointed me big time. Also, after about 20 minutes the computer was hotter than 2 hours of gaming or other intensive computing on SL. Also, the lack of "save as" made me scratch my head. Downgraded about two or three days later, just couldn't keep it.

I'll upgrade to Lion at some point down the pipe, but I'm definitely waiting for 10.7.2 at least. At least my upgrade was free because my MBP is so new.

kdum8
Aug 1, 2011, 08:01 PM
I downgraded to Snow Leopard, but then I realised that I hated the 3D bar and the new expose so I had to downgrade to Leopard, which still had those features so it was back to Tiger. However, some of the features on Tiger just messed too much with what I was used to before that. To cut a long story short, I am back on 10.0 and couldn't be happier. Who needs Lion when you can have Cheetah? :p

Gemütlichkeit
Aug 1, 2011, 08:35 PM
I downgraded to Snow Leopard, but then I realised that I hated the 3D bar and the new expose so I had to downgrade to Leopard, which still had those features so it was back to Tiger. However, some of the features on Tiger just messed too much with what I was used to before that. To cut a long story short, I am back on 10.0 and couldn't be happier. Who needs Lion when you can have Cheetah? :p

I hope this is a facetious post lol

tigres
Aug 1, 2011, 09:08 PM
My machine is back and screaming along nicely, with Mail (yeah), Finder (working :)) and all around niceties.

I suppose SL is my XP.:o

Steve's Barber
Aug 1, 2011, 09:25 PM
Don't feel sorry for anyone here. If you upgraded and went back to SL you have no one to blame but yourselves.

Lion presented too many changes so you should have been cautious about upgrading to begin with. Most of you here on MR had months of posts to read and at the very least should have installed Lion on a separate partition instead of on top of Snow Leopard. I installed it on an external drive and will do the same with 10.7.1 to see if it fixes what I need.

But I do understand the temptation. It's like seeing the aftermath of train wreck with bodies strewn about. You know you shouldn't look but just can't help it.

ggpike
Aug 1, 2011, 09:27 PM
The multi-monitor issues. Display colour profiles not working on multimonitor systems, fullscreen apps not working on multimonitor systems, mission control being spastic on multimonitor systems... where's the quality control?! Finder. Oh dear. "All my files" has no place on the system of anyone who knows what a file is, and this new grouped inline coverflow view is both tacky (like Coverflow itself), and extremely slow. Finder's sidebar is now even less useful. Compare and contrast to Windows 7. Sigh.



Can you go into more detail with a couple of your items?

My design firm runs dual monitor setups with MBP's and Dell U3011's. Color profiles are huge for us. What exactly is the issue with color profiles used in multi monitor setups in Lion?

How bad is the Finder now? Maintaining folder organization both on our Mac's and our server is crucial... does the way Finder works in Lion truly impact the ability to organize as we have in the past two versions of OS X?

jwksmith
Aug 2, 2011, 12:05 AM
I installed Lion on a separate partition on my drive so I can dual boot to SL or Lion. In the finder in Lion, it does not seem to recognize that there are 2 separate partitions - it displays a mixture of files from the SL partition as well as the lion partition. You can force it to use the Lion partition in finder preferences but it will not display the partition sizes/free space etc. The ONLY way I can just get info on the Lion partition is to dismount the SL partition.

The Lion finder is now pretty brain dead. I can't see the root at all. Pretty useless.

In addition, Lion beach balls sporatically - no where near as solid as SL. I have a Sandy Bridge MBP 15 with 2.2 ghz I7. I fear Lion has many rough edges yet.

I really have no need for a 4.5 lb IPhone or IPad right now. Hopefully Apple will get the bugs out. I need another computer soon. I will probably try to buy from old stock so it has SL installed.

me_94501
Aug 2, 2011, 01:35 AM
After almost two weeks with Lion, I can say with confidence that none of the additions and changes have really improved my workflow. If anything, it's hurt it. Mission Control isn't too useful to me, Safari 5.1 has been flaky, and autosave in iWork is disruptive because the apps pause for a moment and pop up a progress bar whenever they save. Argh. That said, I don't have any plans to switch back to Snow Leopard at the moment, because it's too much of a pain.

beth1989
Aug 2, 2011, 02:01 AM
I have to say, I'm missing Snow Leopard.

I have turned of features in order to get the old OS feel back, but I miss things like Expose, and hate Launchpad/ Mission Control and in many cases, the pointless full screen app feature.

I have stumbled across a few issues of flakiness too, mainly with apps etc relying on the internet. oh, and I have to boot in 32bit to access work tools properly (that might not be a Lion issue, it just so happened to kick off once I upgraded) which is really annoying.

However, I won't downgrade, I'll just ride out the storm until bugs are fixed and I get better accustomed to the change. Hopefully.

iBookG4user
Aug 2, 2011, 02:17 AM
I upgraded to Snow Leopard :p

I'm going to stick with Snow Leopard because Mission Control is destructive to my workflow. I use Exposé as a window switcher rather than an application switcher like Mission Control is. For an application switcher I've used command + tab for the longest time. Hiding the Library is a bit of a pain because I do like to have full control of my system and will head into Library from time to time to clean it up after having deleted applications.

The changing of gestures is also a pain. The gesture to see the desktop is now very awkward compared to the four finger swipe up on Snow Leopard, especially on the laptop trackpads. I was perfectly content with the gestures in Snow Leopard, and the new gestures that have been added are not worth the change in my opinion.

All my files is pretty useless to me, it just makes sense that a new Finder window should bring you to the Home folder. Yes, I did change that in preferences so that it opens up in the Home folder, but it was another annoyance. It started with Snow leopard, but also the default of hiding the HD, external HD, network HDs and CD/DVDs from the desktop was a bit annoying. It just seems like if you want any control over your Mac at all you now have to immediately press command + , and enable it rather than just having it work. And in addition to all of this, multiple monitor support was not in mind with the designing of Lion.

Lion is too much of a downgrade for me to deal with, so I'll just stick with Snow Leopard ad infinitum on my current Mac. It's a good thing I'm not looking to get a new Mac anytime soon.

Novim
Aug 2, 2011, 03:24 AM
I installed Lion on a separate partition on my drive so I can dual boot to SL or Lion. In the finder in Lion, it does not seem to recognize that there are 2 separate partitions - it displays a mixture of files from the SL partition as well as the lion partition.

Same here, so I went back to SL, to wait for Lion 10.7.1 or 10.7.2 upgrade. But, SL + DropCopy, Dropbox, HyperDock, DockSpaces, HyperSpace, even with Scroll Reverser, gives me more pleasure than Lion (not to mention its frequent WiFi dropouts).

Davidsilence
Aug 2, 2011, 03:58 AM
The deal breaker for me is my fans are always on and my 2009 MBP 17" is much hotter than SL 85-100c even when avoiding flash / intensive tasks, full screen safari is nice though.

Macshroomer
Aug 2, 2011, 05:04 AM
After more hours than I care to count in trying to get back to a professional working machine, I am back to the most solid, up to date and yet able OS I have ever used, 10.6.8.

I have always early adopted out of curiosity and commitment to Apple's innovation and forward momentum, always had bugs that I covered my rear with multi-tiered and solid back up plans, sweated out third party apps in waiting for revisions, but trying out Lion has changed that for me forever. I will *NEVER* do any update until at least 3 revisions in, ever...

Like several who have posted on this forum, I had some pretty bad finder lockups that resulted in hard force quits, power button only restarts. One of my fastest drives, a WD Caviar Black 2TB contains the primary import folder for my professional photography needs, seeing thousands of images per job come in that need to be batch renamed and thumbnails rendered for catalogs. After importing 1,800 images and doing the usual work, the finder locked up on a delete of those files, they never made it to the trash, 20 minutes into the beach ball, I had to do yet another hard restart.

Mac OSX 10.7 Lion in it's chronic freeze and lock up issues fried the drive, I have a 3TB on order to replace it....

I know many have had good experiences on their machines and I am not surprised, it all depends on your hardware, software and usage. I see many mid to low end machines in signatures, the kind that don't strike me as quite as built up and task heavy as my 4 month old monster with 5 drives, raid, $18,000 film scanner, etc. So I get it....that some of you *don't* get it, that many of us have found this to be the most bug ridden and workflow disruptive piece of software we have ever encountered and it is all our fault for upgrading too soon, you win, we lose, feel good now?

Enjoy Lion if you can, I am sure it has some great features from a consumer standpoint, but given how much trouble many of us have had with it on launch, how utterly iOS-like and handicapped it is, well, I am pretty sure the next time I upgrade to a new OS will be when I get a new primary machine in 3-4 year's time and I doubt I will be running Lion on it...

I am finally done with this crap, my MacPro is running smoothly again, I am going to bed...

pipep
Aug 2, 2011, 06:37 AM
as a pro user, meaning using my macs to work and generate money, i left lion after 3 hours (consider 2 installing and setting everything up), and not planning on coming back.

There are three reasons I started using macs, and keeps me doing so:

The main one, stability.
Second, my pro software runs perfect (archicad, adobe creative suite, apple final cut studio & aperture)
Third, originally expose, and since a few years, spaces = Workflow

I tried lion on the new mbp I bought in march, and everything feels definitely slower

Autosave is not good for pro apps:
1: there is a reason why photoshop don't have the function apple: we're working on +5gb files !!!!!
2: archicad autosave crashes the app everytime (don't ask me why)

Gain my workflow speed back was impossible, as there is nothing faster than "spaces + expose + cmd tab" when you have +20 windows from different apps running

Switching back to SL reminded me the moment when i switched to apple the firts time: everything just works, again.

ZipZap
Aug 2, 2011, 07:13 AM
I loved Snow Leopard, but Lion is even better. Wouldn't go back for anything. Some people were calling Lion Apple's Vista, but my last laptop was Vista and there's no comparing them. Lion is light years ahead and much more convenient and fun to use.

No offense, but you're deluded. Mac OS is not light years ahead of Windows. Apple is good at making really cool applications. Some are downright incredible. Too bad they cant apply that talent to an OS as it sorely lacks.

Lion is the Vista of the Mac world. Not doubt about it....

Did Apple forget who they typical customer is?? Certainly not someone who can navigate the perils of a bad OS upgrade.

ditzy
Aug 2, 2011, 07:47 AM
This thread confirms to me what I guess I already knew. At the time of posting in the poll 70% were happy with Lion. Yet more of the comments are from people who are unhappy. People who are unhappy are simply loader than those who are happy.

roelie76
Aug 2, 2011, 07:48 AM
I have tried Lion, but when I found out that I was unable to play certain games, I downgraded again. I did keep the Lion wallpaper :D.

bizzle
Aug 2, 2011, 07:52 AM
I would downgrade but it I am far too lazy to do a clean install again after I did the same to upgrade.

smallnshort247
Aug 2, 2011, 01:21 PM
I stayed with Lion. However, I have noticed a fair share of annoying bugs. I'm just hoping Apple releases updates soon. I also hope Apple works on better migration of dual monitors and full screen apps.

All the bugs (or annoying things) I've notice so far:

1)iMovie audio issues when editing video
2)Disk Utility Partition issues with my Drobo
3)Mouse pointer sometimes just disappears
4)Super slow boot and shutdown times
5)When closing my MBP and opening it back up, the wifi does not automatically connect

Those are all the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

AppliedMicro
Aug 2, 2011, 06:51 PM
As with any new OS X release, I really wanted to like 10.7. And it certainly some handy features and improvements over 10.6. Still, I reverted back to 10.6 on my main machine. Reasons:

3) Slower than Snow Leopard on same machine. Fans kicking in earlier/more often.

2) Address Book & iCal dumbed down: While I certainly don't like it, it's not really the new look. Apple just made 2 of my top 7 most used Mac apps more cumbersome to use than their Snow Leopard precedessors. I have about 15 different calendars in iCal. I need to be able to toggle them on/off quickly in order to make sense of it all. Likewise, I have several address book groups - the previous 3-column layout is just so much more efficient.

1) Rubber-band scrolling: Granted, I may be extra-sensitive about this*, but it is just driving me crazy. :mad:

In Finder windows I want to see a folder's contents - no more, no less.
In Safari I want to view web pages - no more, no less.
When I scroll, I want to be able to scroll to the ends of a web pages or Finder lists - but not friggin' "beyond" that!
When I reach the end of a scrollable area, just stand still, thank you very much!

Not only is there no point in temporarily showing me greyish empty space.
No, Lion even moves part of the actual contents of a scrollable area farther out of sight than necessary, only to have them "bounce back" with some silly animation!


* A few weeks ago, I just practically lost my eyesight on one eye.
My other eye felt noticeably more strained due to Lion's rubber-band effect with its superfluous movements and animations.

(Not making this up. My eyes are used to quickly moving with content. I had a habit of skimming trough text and scrolling faster than anyone I know. And I still do. I'm neither old or slow yet.)

Skoal
Aug 2, 2011, 08:18 PM
LION!!! The beachballs are increasing when I use Safari. Especially when visiting certain sites (cough GIZMODO cough). I have had to force quit more times than I'd like (uhh, I'd like none at all) and it's pretty irritating. Other than that, Overall I love the OS so far and find it just as useable as SL. The gestures work well for me and my laptop runs fast with it. A few software updates to squash the bugs and It'll be great.

Skoal
Aug 2, 2011, 08:24 PM
I don't get the hate with RB scrolling. I think it's perfect and manipulating the scroll length and speed is very intuitive! Grey space? Ya, that's silly but it's so far down on my worry list I don't see a point in caring about it.

spronkey
Aug 3, 2011, 07:57 PM
Can you go into more detail with a couple of your items?

My design firm runs dual monitor setups with MBP's and Dell U3011's. Color profiles are huge for us. What exactly is the issue with color profiles used in multi monitor setups in Lion?

The issues with colour profiles I've run into so far:

a) the i1 display tools aren't supported in Lion. I've been using my SL calibrated profiles. They don't appear to have fixed issues with UI elements turning too purple either.

b) I can't for the life of me figure out how to apply a different profile to each display. Whatever I do ends up in the same profile being applied across both displays. Completely unacceptable. See: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3190334?start=0&tstart=0

How bad is the Finder now? Maintaining folder organization both on our Mac's and our server is crucial... does the way Finder works in Lion truly impact the ability to organize as we have in the past two versions of OS X?

Most of the finder stuff is just preference as opposed to anything that will severely impact usability. At this stage. Lack of shortcuts to network drives and Mac HD etc in the sidebar (but I was able to restore most of this with preferences).

The finder prefs for trying to get unified views across all finder windows have kinda taken one step forward, and then the same one step back. It's basically no different to what it was in Snow Leopard - you can't pre-set a consistent view for all the finder windows you will ever open.

I also had issues with SMB shares - it's just unreliable at this stage. Had to restart multiple times per day because my system would just sit there with a spinning indicator trying to load directory listings. This may be due to our server not being officially Windows (linux samba), or some issue with our setup/config - but either way, Snow Leopard had less problems.

spronkey
Aug 3, 2011, 07:59 PM
I don't get the hate with RB scrolling. I think it's perfect and manipulating the scroll length and speed is very intuitive!

Interestingly I love it on the iPhone. It's smooth as silk and feels natural.

I hated it on Lion. I'm generally not one to get motion sick, but that's the closest thing I can describe. It just felt like it was screwing with the speed of my using the computer, and it was a little stuttery - so I couldn't help but get the feeling that it was wasting resources/cpu/battery/WHY

bill-p
Aug 3, 2011, 08:26 PM
Well, downgraded. My main reasons are battery life and heat... other things just add more weight to the decision.

chillvisio
Aug 4, 2011, 10:32 PM
Oh, GOD! 29.43% who upgraded to SL is too much. Too big to fail?! C'mon
No Spaces,
No Exposé,
No Save As,
Battery draining issues,
Safari 5.1 - the MemoryEater,
No dual-monitor using FullScreen applications,
Samba shares hell,
NAS storage havoc,
Rosetta anyone?,
Where are the nice colored Finder sidebar icons gone?
Feeling strange with the reverse scrolling?

I am running out of battery power on my wireless keyboard while typing the list.

Just go to Amazon and get Mac OS X Snow Leopard now! It is complete OS for only 30 bucks. I consider this price a steal :P

AppliedMicro
Aug 5, 2011, 07:34 AM
Where are the nice colored Finder sidebar icons gone?
As much as I like a clean look - it certainly makes entries harder to identify. At least you can now change the sidebar icons' size. (Though the preference should definitely NOT be hidden in System Preferences rather than Finder preferences, as it affects Finder but not other programs like iTunes.)

Oh, GOD! 29.43% who upgraded to SL is too much.
To be fair, happy campers are unlikely to open, let alone to vote and contribute to this thread.

tigres
Aug 5, 2011, 07:37 AM
To be fair, happy campers are unlikely to open, let alone to vote and contribute to this thread.

Why do you say that, I made it a completely non biased poll?

Would you word it differently?

KPOM
Aug 5, 2011, 07:56 AM
Why do you say that, I made it a completely non biased poll?

Would you word it differently?

None of our polls are scientific since they rely on people to actually 1) go onto this website, 2) read the poll, and 3) respond to it. People who go to a site like this tend to be more tech savvy. In order to get a better sense we'd need to poll a randomized sample of Lion users and ask them.

AppliedMicro
Aug 5, 2011, 09:37 AM
Why do you say that, I made it a completely non biased poll?

Would you word it differently?
It's not the wording but a selection bias, as pointed by the previous poster.
Case in point: If I were completely happy with Lion, I would probably have missed this thread and not have voted here. I have been an occasional reader/poster for a while but I am certainly frequenting this forums much more than usually - researching ways to fix things on my Lion install. ;)

And then, working for an Apple reseller and supporting my family in all things Mac, I know a ton of people who have never ever registered as a user in an internet computer forum, let alone a foreign-language one (macrumors.com). Most of these people simply never use or notice many of the things mentioned in this thread. They don't use Spaces, Expose, dual monitors, Samba, NAS storage and the like.

My mom hardly notices anything to be "different" since I upgraded her computer to Lion. If anything, "the internet now reopens the pages just as they were before she turned the computer off" (Resume/Safari) and she now can "make video calls with her son easily" (Facetime). So for her, "the new program" (Lion) is certainly better than the old one.

tigres
Aug 5, 2011, 10:05 AM
None of our polls are scientific since they rely on people to actually 1) go onto this website, 2) read the poll, and 3) respond to it. People who go to a site like this tend to be more tech savvy. In order to get a better sense we'd need to poll a randomized sample of Lion users and ask them.

It's not the wording but a selection bias, as pointed by the previous poster.
Case in point: If I were completely happy with Lion, I would probably have missed this thread and not have voted here. I have been an occasional reader/poster for a while but I am certainly frequenting this forums much more than usually - researching ways to fix things on my Lion install. ;)

And then, working for an Apple reseller and supporting my family in all things Mac, I know a ton of people who have never ever registered as a user in an internet computer forum, let alone a foreign-language one (macrumors.com). Most of these people simply never use or notice many of the things mentioned in this thread. They don't use Spaces, Expose, dual monitors, Samba, NAS storage and the like.

My mom hardly notices anything to be "different" since I upgraded her computer to Lion. If anything, "the internet now reopens the pages just as they were before she turned the computer off" (Resume/Safari) and she now can "make video calls with her son easily" (Facetime). So for her, "the new program" (Lion) is certainly better than the old one.


Good points, and taken. I do suspect though that being with the tech savvy forum; at least we get people who are more OCD with their macs. :D Hence, we beat it up pretty bad.

mdsofky
Aug 8, 2011, 05:44 PM
If Apple doesn't get the SMB shares issue resolved, I'm switching back. My wife has had a few bugs and I can feel the heat of "why did you upgrade my iMac?" (because she's noticed some oddballs issues too).

I'm thinking Apple may correct my sharing issues with my Windows computers. But if they don't, I'm reverting back to Snow Leopard.

I like some things (Mail, look of address book and calendar, etc.) but not sure if I want to live with my sharing problems.

bizzle
Aug 8, 2011, 06:06 PM
Thankfully I only upgraded one machine and it's doing an install of Snow Leopard now on another partition.. what a ****ing waste.

AppleFanatic10
Aug 8, 2011, 06:46 PM
I had to go back.. It was making my macbook really slow.. kept on getting the beachball, funny how I wasn't getting this hardly ever in SL.

ssn637
Aug 10, 2011, 01:08 AM
Our company has advised not upgrading to Lion just yet, so I'm waiting for an update to 10.7 before trying again. Snow Leopard and the MacBook Pro 2010 models just seem made for each other, and I've managed to find alternate applications to make up for the downgrade:

DropCopy to replace AirDrop
QuickPick is a fine Launchpad, allowing selection of desired application icons in your preferred format
BetterTouchTool has been set up to provide three-finger swiping gestures for Spaces and Exposé

The most important reason for downgrading was lack of CoolBook support and a 20% (minimum) reduction in battery life.

RedRaven571
Aug 11, 2011, 09:22 AM
I just reinstalled SL on my son's new 13" MBP (luckily, it came with SL disks, just prior to Lion launch). He's leaving for college in a few weeks and the MBP won't enter sleep mode without closing the lid/choosing sleep from the :apple: menu; for us, this is the single biggest reason to go back to SL.

If they get the problem worked out in 10.7.1, will probably upgrade over winter break.

I'm keeping Lion on my late 2008 15" MBP, as I am not having the sleep issue since I removed iStat from my machine.

Gemütlichkeit
Aug 11, 2011, 10:09 AM
Lion is bauce.

Sodner
Aug 11, 2011, 10:18 AM
Love Lion. Zero problems. Unlike some "pro's" I can accept change, and it has been for the better.

MrFusion
Aug 11, 2011, 11:33 AM
I'm going to stick with Snow Leopard because Mission Control is destructive to my workflow. I use Exposé as a window switcher rather than an application switcher like Mission Control is. For an application switcher I've used command + tab for the longest time.

If you like the keyboard, try cmd + ~ instead of expose. Personally, I miss spaces more than expose.


Hiding the Library is a bit of a pain because I do like to have full control of my system and will head into Library from time to time to clean it up after having deleted applications.


This is an easy one line fix in terminal. Google for it.

yeg780
Aug 11, 2011, 12:19 PM
I'm running Lion on my mbp and don't have any issues. There are things I don't like about it, like Launchpad and natural scrolling, but I just don't use those. Everything else seems to be working fine.

On my iMac, however, I'm still on SL. My wife hates change and if I were to upgrade it to Lion she would not like it. Once she gets use to it on the mbp then I'll upgrade the iMac to Lion.

tigres
Aug 11, 2011, 05:12 PM
Spent a day helping a friend yesterday. His 2011 air took overnight to back up 100gb with a first TM backup. Attached USB drive.

Called me this am saying it was still at 30 gb to go.

Lion

scottsjack
Aug 11, 2011, 06:13 PM
I put Lion on my MBP on day one and on my MP the next day. After two days I reverted the MP back to SL via Time Machine (worked great). I decided to work with Lion for a while on the laptop. Some of the swiping stuff was OK and FileVault 2 was much appreciated. As time went on I disabled, dumped or reskinned much of the Lion stuff I didn't like. In the end I just like SL much better so I did a SL fresh install.

I'm wondering if some of the difference between the Lion lovers and Lion haters is due to machine type and size. On a 24in monitor the lack of a usable Spaces, the worthlessness of full screen mode and the still ugly iCal and Address Book really ruined my computing experience.

On a small laptop much of that iOS small screen stuff might come in handy. It makes me think that SL is a fantastic OS designed for real, full-sized computers that could have used a few additional tools for those working on small screens.

On the other hand Lion is an OS designed for smaller screens that managed to ruin some of the full-screen tools and be less artistic and adult looking at the same time.

joeybuckets
Aug 17, 2011, 09:04 PM
I put Lion on my MBP on day one and on my MP the next day. After two days I reverted the MP back to SL via Time Machine (worked great). I decided to work with Lion for a while on the laptop. Some of the swiping stuff was OK and FileVault 2 was much appreciated. As time went on I disabled, dumped or reskinned much of the Lion stuff I didn't like. In the end I just like SL much better so I did a SL fresh install.

I'm wondering if some of the difference between the Lion lovers and Lion haters is due to machine type and size. On a 24in monitor the lack of a usable Spaces, the worthlessness of full screen mode and the still ugly iCal and Address Book really ruined my computing experience.

On a small laptop much of that iOS small screen stuff might come in handy. It makes me think that SL is a fantastic OS designed for real, full-sized computers that could have used a few additional tools for those working on small screens.

On the other hand Lion is an OS designed for smaller screens that managed to ruin some of the full-screen tools and be less artistic and adult looking at the same time.


i want to do this for my Imac, how did u go about doing it? i have Time machine backups as well

jji7skyline
Aug 17, 2011, 09:06 PM
I'm sticking with lion... I'm sure most of the bugs will get fixed eventually, and I have both on a disk :D

easy4lif
Aug 17, 2011, 09:14 PM
personally, id love it if apple sold the new mail app by itself. Im not that impresses by lion to date.

MartiNZ
Aug 17, 2011, 10:05 PM
Just had another run-in with autosave/versions. A pretty common operation I would warrant, crop a PDF then print to PDF again to ensure it actually is cropped, and save as same title. Then try to close the original ... do you want to save changes or revert ... umm WHAT? In that case it's just totally backwards, reverting saves the changes, goodness knows what saving would do. Now I'm not even sure what document I ended up sending....

How on Earth do you view crop box / media box in Preview in Lion anyway?

I'm every day closer to grabbing that SL box :(. I've never even considered reverting an OS X version before, and have been on board since 10.1.2. Phenomenal.

mrmister
Aug 17, 2011, 10:14 PM
I had never considered reverting before...but Apple had nevermade a new version that dumbs-down the system in favor of gimmicks...and then as though that's not enough, is *buggier* than any release I've experienced since Cheetah.

30% upgrading to Snow Leopard? I hope so. I hope enough user base stays behind that it becomes an issue for them, so that they might have to actually care.

iemckinnon
Aug 20, 2011, 12:54 PM
I run Lion on a 2009 Mac Mini with a 7200 RPM 500GB HDD. 3GB RAM

I am running into a lot of problems that interfere with my day-to-day work. Safari just feels slower, and I can't tell you how many times a day it just locks up for 5 minutes.

I use two monitors, and my mouse disappears when shifting to my secondary monitor about 40% of the time.

My apps "feel" slower. I have not measured them But even with a harddrive that I upgraded from a 5K to a 7KRPM drive, apps on Lion feel slower. Especially Adobe.

I will admit that there are some features I like in Lion... but I am on the cusp of downgrading, and likely will if Apple is as slow as usual about fixing bugs.

Lion does almost feel like a late ßeta

Tozzi
Aug 20, 2011, 08:31 PM
Wow. 400+ votes and >30% have gone back to SL.
Bertrand Serlet's timing was impeccable, it seems... ;)

Bartman01
Aug 20, 2011, 10:04 PM
If Apple doesn't get the SMB shares issue resolved, I'm switching back.

That is the one thing that is killing Lion for me so far. CIFS/SMB connections to Lion are just flat broken. From Lion > Windows works for me, Lion > Lion works, Windows > Lion or hardware that requires CIFS shares > Lion connections don't work properly or don't work at all. I haven't switched back yet, but this is making things very painful.

Hyper-X
Aug 20, 2011, 10:25 PM
I wanted to like Lion, I really tried hard to use it but all the bugs and useless features forced me back to SL.

InuNacho
Aug 21, 2011, 12:34 AM
I went down to a nearby Apple Store and tried Lion and FCPX for the first time and it didn't go to well. I tried scrolling through the Applications folder and got nowhere until I remembered that stupid "natural scrolling" thing. Next up I opened up quite a few windows and tried Mission Control and got lost looking for a Finder window. Maybe it was the Cinema Display's resolution or the 10 odd windows open, but finding anything was a pain in the rear.
I really wanted to bring a flash drive with some of my favorite PPC games on them just to see the error message, but I left it at home by mistake.

Luckily my next Mac is going to be a 2010 Pro so the only time I have to deal with Lion is when it's being wiped and Snow Leopard is put on it.

Lycorisu
Aug 21, 2011, 12:39 AM
Personally I hated what they did with Finder, and the new things they added didn't do much for me except raise my blood pressure. The bottom line is with Lion my productivity went down and my aggravation went up. I didn't see that changing, so I went back to SL.

Jeordeon
Aug 21, 2011, 03:59 AM
I use Lion on my internal 500 GB HD, and I have SL on my external 500 GB HD. I mostly just use Lion, but I have SL because it is compatible with Rosseta, and uses an eighth the RAM so running Windows 7 via VMware is so much faster. I do, however, use Lion 9/10ths of the time.

era927
Aug 21, 2011, 08:21 AM
I also reverted back to SL 10.6.8 after 3days of using lion os x.. encountered a lot of instabilities...

caz1
Aug 21, 2011, 08:32 AM
I have given up with Lion and reverted. The reasons were wifi was still an issue, grey screens, ipod classic failed to sync, WD my passport not working and a couple of Power PC programs that are still under development for Lion compatibility. All issues are now resolved with the move back to SL.

When the bugs are fixed and my software is updated, I may consider the move again. But I don't feel I am missing anything...

steadysignal
Aug 21, 2011, 09:17 AM
tried lion day one...reverted almost immediately when several apps I use daily did not work (1password, especially - how it is that agilebits did not nail this upgrade is uncertain to me.)

i am back on lion on a few of my systems and am getting used to it now.

its a shame, the past few upgrades were flawless for me.

we'll see...

Isidore
Aug 21, 2011, 09:57 AM
I am sticking with Lion for the moment but what they have done to the finder is terrible. I hate the apology for a scroll bar, it is useless. And as for active buttons being barely darker than inactive ones is this supposed to make it easier to use? The changes to iCal and Address book are tasteless and counter productive and the 'natural' scrolling only works if you think you are moving the document rather than moving the window on the document. When you look at a paper document do you move your eyes up and down and left and right or do you stare fixedly on one point on your desk and move the page? It's just plain wrong, a Mac is NOT an iPad. I don't mind the things you can change back because I've changed them back but the stuff that's plain missing or broken is very poor. I haven't changed back but for the first time I am considering it- I wonder if my new Air will run on SL?

deadlystriker
Aug 21, 2011, 10:19 AM
I am sticking with Lion for the moment but what they have done to the finder is terrible. I hate the apology for a scroll bar, it is useless. And as for active buttons being barely darker than inactive ones is this supposed to make it easier to use? The changes to iCal and Address book are tasteless and counter productive and the 'natural' scrolling only works if you think you are moving the document rather than moving the window on the document. When you look at a paper document do you move your eyes up and down and left and right or do you stare fixedly on one point on your desk and move the page? It's just plain wrong, a Mac is NOT an iPad. I don't mind the things you can change back because I've changed them back but the stuff that's plain missing or broken is very poor. I haven't changed back but for the first time I am considering it- I wonder if my new Air will run on SL?

The 2011 MacBook airs will not be able to run 10.6 snow leopard. Apple has purposely released lion and refreshed the MBAs on the same day so they will be stuck with lion.

ixthy
Aug 21, 2011, 01:29 PM
Lol suddenly older mac machines became more valuable, just because they can run on older versions of mac os x!!! I'm not purchasing a lion machine that can't run leopard or SL. I also don't understand Apple's policy that don't provide drivers for the older versions of mac osx.

Steve's Barber
Aug 21, 2011, 02:20 PM
I also don't understand Apple's policy that don't provide drivers for the older versions of mac osx.Because Apple is innovating things so quickly they can't maintain even code that is just a few years old. (e.g., the impending iCloud release this fall).

Microsoft on the other hand is so entrenched in the corporate world they have no choice but to keep their legacy products going for as long as possible.

Like it or hate it... that's just how it works when you back a company with a very small market share in the PC industry.

mrmister
Sep 5, 2011, 12:11 AM
"Because Apple is innovating things so quickly they can't maintain even code that is just a few years old. (e.g., the impending iCloud release this fall)."

Replace "can't" with "won't", and acknowledge the motive is total platform control, and you're closer to the point.

hormelmeatcompa
Sep 5, 2011, 01:18 AM
I'm going to go back to Snow Leopard on my 2011 13" Macbook Pro. I already got a refund for Lion. Why go back? My wifi still doesn't work, even after 10.7.1. I've done everything that I've read, which includes resetting the SMC and PRAM, creating a new location profile, setting the IPv6 to local link only, using a bash script to ping Google, using Google's DNS servers, removing various Airport plist files, deleting and readding 802.1x networks and creating an 802.1x WPA2 Enterprise profile with the iPhone configuration utility.

Thank GOD I bought it in late May. That means I got a physical install disc that I can do a clean install from. None of this recovery partition BS where you can't even do a clean install from one...

maflynn
Sep 5, 2011, 05:35 AM
I'm sticking with it. I re-installed Lion and found that I'm liking the advantages of Lion over the disadvantages.

I did a clean install and I have 8gb of ram, so one of those two things is helping keep things fast and stable.

Ropie
Sep 5, 2011, 05:40 AM
I did a clean install back to SL (on my 2007 MBP) this weekend.

Reasons:

It sent the temperature of my MBP through the roof at most times;
Preview kept opening old files and kept crashing;
Not able to use clamshell mode with the screen open but switched off;
Didn't want to upgrade Parallels again.

I don't really miss any of the new features from Lion like the new Mail layout or Launchpad, which I didn't like anyway, although I had got to quite like Mission Control.

I can always upgrade again at a later date if I really need to and have no intention of applying for a refund. At the moment though, SL works much better on my system and serves all my needs.

tug
Sep 5, 2011, 11:58 AM
i did, untill 10.7.1 came out.
i had previously put lion on a 8gig flash drive. ;)

i then formatted my hdd (wiped it completely) and then booted from the flash (I've still got all my original disks to my mac inc. s/l)

i tell you guys, my mac is like brand new, i love lion now, far superior than s/l. couldn't be happier. :cool:

fat jez
Sep 5, 2011, 04:46 PM
I went back to SL this evening. no more unticking that daft reopen all windows on restart. No more creating duplicate docs before making temporary changes that I don't intend to save. No more gimmicks I'll never use like launchpad.

Things I'll miss:
resizing windows from any edge.
natural scrolling.
Mail client

Ropie
Sep 5, 2011, 05:02 PM
Things I'll miss:
resizing windows from any edge

Yes, this was slightly useful. But in actual fact I bet you find that in a couple of days you have forgotten about it. The cleaner, functional, less gimmicky interface of SL is worth much more than additional 'improvements' (read simply 'changes') like those found in Lion.

fat jez
Sep 5, 2011, 05:03 PM
Definitely. It will also help stop messing with my head as I use SL at work and I was going nuts having to remember two different ways of working.

djdsas
Sep 5, 2011, 07:30 PM
Running Lion perfectly on my Dual Xeon 5150 Hackintosh!

However, I just wiped Lion on my 15" 2010 Macbook Pro back and
did a fresh install of Snow Leopard.

Lion was running much hotter than Snow Leopard.

Anyone else have similair issues with heat?

tigres
Sep 13, 2011, 07:38 PM
Wish these poll results were more like 95% positive and 5% neg.

How are users who are running 10.7.1 making out with Windows server networks/shared folders in finder? It was a bust in 10.7 for me, a primary reason for downgrading.

Just saw that 1Password 4 is going to require Lion, and I hate to see many follow suite so quickly. Hopefully many more will hold out and support both, but I have my doubts.

colourfastt
Sep 13, 2011, 09:07 PM
Put SL back on my iMac. No more heat problems and the CPU no longer IDLES at 20% usage.

JParsley
Sep 14, 2011, 08:20 AM
Wish these poll results were more like 95% positive and 5% neg.

How are users who are running 10.7.1 making out with Windows server networks/shared folders in finder? It was a bust in 10.7 for me, a primary reason for downgrading.

Just saw that 1Password 4 is going to require Lion, and I hate to see many follow suite so quickly. Hopefully many more will hold out and support both, but I have my doubts.

I started a thread on my problem with shared folders here.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1201338

I hope apple fixes it soon.

wikus
Sep 14, 2011, 09:38 AM
Back to SL for me. I've always been a bit apprehensive when it comes to upgrading ever since Tiger came out. From 10.1 -> .2 and -> .3 was easy - it was all new features and performance, and basically nothing taken away.

Tiger .4 concerned me given I had old hardware at the time, but I jumped straight on the bandwagon when I went Intel.

Leopard was a hard sell, I was concerned that the silly new 3D dock etc. would slow my system down (and I was right, but thankfully you can turn it 2D. Yus!).

Snow Leopard was about the easiest decision in the world, but I instantly regretted it because it ruined Expose for me by removing the relative sizings of windows, and moving the windows around too much.

Lion... well. What a cluster****. If all you do with your Mac is use it in isolation for web browsing, mail, and the occasional video, go ahead. It's got some new eye candy (Mail, iCal, Launchpad, rubber band scrolling - yuck), and some features that dumb down some of the previously power-user features and make them more accessible (Mission Control).

But if you use your mac as a serious tool... well... Here's a list for you:
It's slower. (Post indexing, on both a Late 2008 Unibody 15" MBP, 2011 13" MBP) The new gestures are disgusting. The thumb pinch is impossible, and the 2 finger swipe clashes with scrolling and doesn't work properly outside Safari. Mission Control, while a good feature of its own accord, is not a replacement for Spaces and Expose. Why did Apple have to take these features away? What's wrong with having both Mission Control and the old Spaces/Expose? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me... The new autosave document model might be "the way of the future", but when it comes to network devices and removable storage, YAY for holding on to billions of file handles and ****ing up my battery life, sleep routines, and general chi. iCal peaked in 10.4. Ever since, it's been going downhill in terms of usability. This new leather feel is just another kick in the guts. The multi-monitor issues. Display colour profiles not working on multimonitor systems, fullscreen apps not working on multimonitor systems, mission control being spastic on multimonitor systems... where's the quality control?! There have been numerous issues with regards to upgrading from old installs. While it's always a bit of a hot topic, it's just another thorn in the side. Safari 5.1 has serious issues. Memory leaks galore leaving me with no available RAM and causing my system to swap like a mofo. Extremely uncool. Finder. Oh dear. "All my files" has no place on the system of anyone who knows what a file is, and this new grouped inline coverflow view is both tacky (like Coverflow itself), and extremely slow. Finder's sidebar is now even less useful. Compare and contrast to Windows 7. Sigh.


I expected a lot more. I was looking forward to some of the cooler features of iOS - like saving application state, and good integration with things like GMail. I certainly didn't expect my operating system to start making decisions about which of my apps to keep open. I know this better than any algorithm ever will, Apple.

So, I reverted back to Snow Leopard (and in fact suprred me to find a Beta version of SL's Dock.app to get 10.5's expose, which I find vastly superior to SL's). It's better than SL has ever been for me - I highly recommend it.

What really irks me is the cavalier attitude Apple are now taking toward more professional users like myself. Previous editions of Mac OS X didn't really take away features; certainly not ones as prominent as Spaces and Expose - yet they are content to simply wipe the board clean with new UI tools that I believe one could empirically prove worse.

In the past, OS X felt like it was built by a team of interaction designers. People that understood how both novice and expert users work with computers, and who were able to craft a solid experience across the whole spectrum. Now, OS X feels like it's drawn by graphic designers and animators, who are concerned with flashy eye candy and have little regard to the human-computer interaction.

I love my Macbook Pro. There's nothing even remotely close to the form factor in the PC world. But I find myself longing for the utilitarianism that is Windows. (The lack of a 1440x900 panel and low-cost SSD on the now-rather-overpriced 13" Macbook Pro really isn't helping either)...

Man its so refreshing to read and see an objective Mac user on the forum.

That post/rant was bang on. I was going to add my two cents but you made mention of every point I was going to make.

tigres
Sep 14, 2011, 10:07 AM
Man its so refreshing to read and see an objective Mac user on the forum.

That post/rant was bang on. I was going to add my two cents but you made mention of every point I was going to make.

I so much mirror your post with regards to spronkey's evaluation.

I watched and looked at Window's 8 last eve, and even though I loathe going back to windows as my primary OS, I have to hand it to them for pulling a BMW (engineering wise) and pulling out all the stops. It all might not work perfectly upon release, but talk about balls to the wall with a complete new way of life-> and backwards compatibility, without compromising how people work.

But for Lion, the more I see it on my wife's computer and my son's- the more it pisses me off for being such a lazy update from Apple. I can honestly say, I hate most of what Lion brought to it's users (especially business users), and that is separate from what Lion just simply broke. You know, the fundamentals of working with an OS, not fighting it.

Save as- who ever would have thought that was wrong? That ranks up there with "your holding it wrong", IMO.

ssn637
Sep 14, 2011, 10:33 AM
Snow Leopard and the MacBook Pro 2010 models were made for each other...but Lion's File Vault 2 feature allowed me to seamlessly encrypt a separate volume with sensitive company data, and as far as I know Snow Leopard's File Vault cannot do this. When reverting back to 10.6, the partition is no longer recognized, so I'm stuck with Lion unless using a third-party encryption tool, which won't provide the same seamless access.

For this reason alone I'm sticking with Lion, and with a few modifications (like adding color icons in Finder's sidebar or replacing iCal's leather look with aluminum) provided by helpful forum members, it's looking a bit more like Snow Leopard. Surely others here will be able to give us the good ole Expose and Spaces thanks to a bit of ingenuity, and with 10.7.2 around the corner some of the bugs should be eliminated.

wikus
Sep 14, 2011, 10:40 AM
...and with 10.7.2 around the corner some of the bugs should be eliminated.


I consider the lack of proper TRIM support for 3rd party drives a full out bug.

bill-p
Sep 14, 2011, 11:03 AM
Well, after going straight from Snow Leopard to 10.7.1, I have changed my opinions.

Fan doesn't go crazy anymore.
WIFI is more reliable.
Wake from deep sleep is much less tolerable, and closer to Snow Leopard.
Less heat overall.
Safari doesn't leak memory anymore.

I'm sitting with 7 tabs in Safari at the moment after a whole week of random usage (LibreOffice, Lightroom, Windows XP in Parallels, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, and Illustrator, and Flash), just closing the lid in between, and Safari has only used 500MB so far. 250MB Page In and no Page Out whatsoever.

ssn637
Sep 14, 2011, 11:17 AM
I consider the lack of proper TRIM support for 3rd party drives a full out bug.

Well, we didn't have Trim support in Snow Leopard either. I was able to enable trim support for my Crucial C300 256 GB drive using the terminal commands provided here:

http://digitaldj.net/2011/07/21/trim-enabler-for-lion/

wikus
Sep 14, 2011, 11:22 AM
Well, we didn't have Trim support in Snow Leopard either. I was able to enable trim support for my Crucial C300 256 GB drive using the terminal commands provided here:

http://digitaldj.net/2011/07/21/trim-enabler-for-lion/

Thanks for the link! I've yet to install my Intel 320 in my macbook, been holding out for about a month due to problems with the laptop itself.

:)

mrsir2009
Sep 14, 2011, 01:54 PM
If there are so many polls of which you are complaining about, maybe there is some validity. I see some 25% of users downgrading- according to this poll. Not sure of the other 10 polls.

Yeah, but there would be a lot of 'Pros' on MacRumors and not as many 'home users'.

tigres
Sep 14, 2011, 02:00 PM
Yeah, but there would be a lot of 'Pros' on MacRumors and not as many 'home users'.

Well, that states the obvious.

SandboxGeneral
Sep 14, 2011, 02:04 PM
I'll keep this short and to the point:

For curiosity sake, who updated to Lion but for various reasons switched back to SL?

You can post your reasons if you so choose.

I upgraded to Lion and it works just fine for me. I am staying with it and never once thought about switching back. The only time I ever switched back an OS was to go from Vista back to XP.

I don't like the less colorful Lion compared to SL, but I remedied that and used SIMBL and CandyBar to spruce Lion up. The only real complaint I have is that Mission Control replaced Spaces and Expose. I liked having the two features separate better.

But overall I am happy with Lion; I especially cannot complain too much for $29.

ZipZap
Sep 15, 2011, 06:24 AM
Back to SL for me. I've always been a bit apprehensive when it comes to upgrading ever since Tiger came out. From 10.1 -> .2 and -> .3 was easy - it was all new features and performance, and basically nothing taken away.

Tiger .4 concerned me given I had old hardware at the time, but I jumped straight on the bandwagon when I went Intel.

Leopard was a hard sell, I was concerned that the silly new 3D dock etc. would slow my system down (and I was right, but thankfully you can turn it 2D. Yus!).

Snow Leopard was about the easiest decision in the world, but I instantly regretted it because it ruined Expose for me by removing the relative sizings of windows, and moving the windows around too much.

Lion... well. What a cluster****. If all you do with your Mac is use it in isolation for web browsing, mail, and the occasional video, go ahead. It's got some new eye candy (Mail, iCal, Launchpad, rubber band scrolling - yuck), and some features that dumb down some of the previously power-user features and make them more accessible (Mission Control).

But if you use your mac as a serious tool... well... Here's a list for you:
It's slower. (Post indexing, on both a Late 2008 Unibody 15" MBP, 2011 13" MBP) The new gestures are disgusting. The thumb pinch is impossible, and the 2 finger swipe clashes with scrolling and doesn't work properly outside Safari. Mission Control, while a good feature of its own accord, is not a replacement for Spaces and Expose. Why did Apple have to take these features away? What's wrong with having both Mission Control and the old Spaces/Expose? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me... The new autosave document model might be "the way of the future", but when it comes to network devices and removable storage, YAY for holding on to billions of file handles and ****ing up my battery life, sleep routines, and general chi. iCal peaked in 10.4. Ever since, it's been going downhill in terms of usability. This new leather feel is just another kick in the guts. The multi-monitor issues. Display colour profiles not working on multimonitor systems, fullscreen apps not working on multimonitor systems, mission control being spastic on multimonitor systems... where's the quality control?! There have been numerous issues with regards to upgrading from old installs. While it's always a bit of a hot topic, it's just another thorn in the side. Safari 5.1 has serious issues. Memory leaks galore leaving me with no available RAM and causing my system to swap like a mofo. Extremely uncool. Finder. Oh dear. "All my files" has no place on the system of anyone who knows what a file is, and this new grouped inline coverflow view is both tacky (like Coverflow itself), and extremely slow. Finder's sidebar is now even less useful. Compare and contrast to Windows 7. Sigh.


I expected a lot more. I was looking forward to some of the cooler features of iOS - like saving application state, and good integration with things like GMail. I certainly didn't expect my operating system to start making decisions about which of my apps to keep open. I know this better than any algorithm ever will, Apple.

So, I reverted back to Snow Leopard (and in fact suprred me to find a Beta version of SL's Dock.app to get 10.5's expose, which I find vastly superior to SL's). It's better than SL has ever been for me - I highly recommend it.

What really irks me is the cavalier attitude Apple are now taking toward more professional users like myself. Previous editions of Mac OS X didn't really take away features; certainly not ones as prominent as Spaces and Expose - yet they are content to simply wipe the board clean with new UI tools that I believe one could empirically prove worse.

In the past, OS X felt like it was built by a team of interaction designers. People that understood how both novice and expert users work with computers, and who were able to craft a solid experience across the whole spectrum. Now, OS X feels like it's drawn by graphic designers and animators, who are concerned with flashy eye candy and have little regard to the human-computer interaction.

I love my Macbook Pro. There's nothing even remotely close to the form factor in the PC world. But I find myself longing for the utilitarianism that is Windows. (The lack of a 1440x900 panel and low-cost SSD on the now-rather-overpriced 13" Macbook Pro really isn't helping either)...


Did you consider that professional mac users are no longer Apple's desired demographic?

They waited for you to bring success to the company. And by success I mean revenue. Eventually they found other products/demographics to boost the company.

Its no surprise to me that the Mac OS is moving towards iOS.

hipollito
Sep 15, 2011, 10:17 AM
Well...I waited for 10.7.1 to upgrade, and I did last weekend and I am really happy.

I updated with a clean Lion install with a 3 zero pass. I have a MBP mid 2010 15" i5. The install went without an issue the only thing is that i had to wait like 5min for the install dvd to run...not a biggie.

But now my MBP is faster, and I really like the look of Lion. I have to say i did make a partition on my hd when I had SL and tested Lion 10.7.0 and since then I haven´t had any of the issues that some people are describing here...wake from sleep is actually little bit faster than SL, never missed the wifi after sleep or anything, and never had a single crash, I use an external monitor, with out issue, yes it needs some work so you can maximize your productivity but nothing to downgrade for. So for me no problems at all.

The new features are good, guys..you just have to accept the change, the moment you do that you will see that everything makes sense, stop the hate about spaces,expose and such...I found myself using features that I thought I would never use...like launchpad, i use a hot corner for launchpad and now I can access my apps with just a click and not two like SL.

I Use windows with VMware and it works perfect, Adebe CS5 with out problems as well as office 2011...I was scared about all the posts in here, but now I realize that for some is just the change and for some is actually software problems that maybe because of upgrading and not clean install maybe...or apps that are causing the crashes.

I am starting my masters in innovation and I am very happy with my workflow and productivity in lion. Mission control is great, the only bad thing is that when you have 3 or more windows of the same app open you can't see them all, so you have to guess with one is the one you want but easy fix doing app expose...yes its one more gesture but it´s fast.

So, no downgrade for me, I am apply with ion =)

bigpoppamac31
Sep 15, 2011, 08:29 PM
Wow this is an interesting thread. Such mix reviews over Lion. I personally don't really have an issue with Lion. My 2011 MBP 15" refurb came with Lion preinstalled. I do miss the old Expose though and even the old dashboard. When launching a new widget it doesn't even do the ripple effect anymore. lol I also don't like the new Finder sidebar and hiding the system folders. Also when I upgraded my hard drive and used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone my drive to the new one I lost my Lion Recovery HD on the new drive. Thankfully it was still on the old drive so I made a flash drive out of it. Launchpad is alright. My only gripe is when installing a new app from the App Store is doesn't put it alphabetically in line with the rest of your apps. I have to move it manually afterwards.

In any event how would one go about "upgrading" (or "downgrading" depending on how one looks at it) from Lion to Snow Leopard? Like I said my MBP came with Lion preinstalled. I just transferred my files over from an external HD. So I have no SL disc.

David085
Sep 15, 2011, 09:03 PM
There are Up's, and Down's about Lion, but still sticking with it :)

Cougarcat
Sep 16, 2011, 10:05 PM
I do miss the old Expose though and even the old dashboard. When launching a new widget it doesn't even do the ripple effect anymore.

You can get the old one back. Mission control-->uncheck "Show Dashboard as a space"


In any event how would one go about "upgrading" (or "downgrading" depending on how one looks at it) from Lion to Snow Leopard? Like I said my MBP came with Lion preinstalled. I just transferred my files over from an external HD. So I have no SL disc.

Get a SL disc, wipe and install.

Lion is flawless on my hackintosh, but I will wait till 10.7.2 to decide wether to revert to SL on my MacBook Pro. Battery life is just awful at the moment...

tigres
Sep 17, 2011, 08:50 AM
I Use windows with VMware and it works perfect, Adebe CS5 with out problems as well as office 2011...I was scared about all the posts in here, but now I realize that for some is just the change and for some is actually software problems that maybe because of upgrading and not clean install maybe...or apps that are causing the crashes.

Are you running VM 3 or 4 on Lion?

Porco
Sep 17, 2011, 07:36 PM
I've just gone back to Snow Leopard for the time being on my second machine (MacBook).

I'm not sure I'd count Lion as an upgrade in some ways... yeah, I know it is in many 'under the hood' ways, but having tested it out a bit there's a lot of thing that make my life really helpful in Snow Leopard and earlier that they've really messed up in Lion. Hopefully they'll fix some of them before too long.

Top of the list for me is how they've ruined the way I used Exposé. They could fix this if they added an option to use the old style Exposé or added an option for all-window Exposé in the hot corners again. Why ruin something that was so perfect already? It's the mac equivalent of George Lucas adding Darth Vader's "Noooooo"s in the Return of the Jedi Blu-ray as far as I'm concerned.

I also hate many of the iPad-ification aspects. I love my iPad, but that doesn't mean I want my desktop mac to behave in the same way 'for the sake of it' (which is what it feels like to me). I have no problem with Launchpad, because it's entirely optional (and good luck to anyone who wants to use it). But all the default 'resume' stuff is a pain in the backside. I want a Save As option, and I want to be able to not have to lock documents to stop them making versions and saving over files etc.

Aesthetically, I hate how the de-saturated colours a la iTunes have spread to the Finder. I think the miniaturised red/amber/green buttons look worse. I think the general squarer buttons look worse. iCal... yuck, enough said.

I guess I'm going to have to put up with a lot of this stuff in the future, especially when 10.8 comes out, and a lot of it is just personal taste, but for now it's back to Snow Leopard for me.

ahbdesign
Sep 17, 2011, 09:43 PM
I'm sticking with Lion but only after I made some adjustments on (what could be considered an old computer) my MacBook.

When I first upgraded, jeeeez it was slow! Bootup time was way too long (which I was getting used to with SL) but shutdown times were 15-20 secs :eek:! Uncool!

Once I upped the ram to 4gig, things ran smoother but I still felt like it was slow-ish. So I did a clean install (after going through lots of forums and websites) of Lion, and now I can say it's running nicely. Also, 10.7.1 fixed the wifi issues I was having, which was good.

The problem is, I can't remember having any issues when I upgraded to SL from Leopard. I LOVED IT! My mac was so much faster and snappier. I expected (probably unreasonably) the same thing when I upgraded to Lion from SL, but this was not the case. The clean install helped though.

Although, my friends who have newer macs (latest MBPs and MBAs) are perfectly fine with Lion. So I think, it's like how I felt when iOS4 came out and I was using my iPhone 3G at the time, which was slow as ****. Lion seems like the same thing to me.

OS X Lion is a step forward, but you'll have to step-forward your older macs if you want it to run nicely.

starvingartist8
Sep 18, 2011, 03:38 AM
I did't find useful Mission Control (Exposé was simple & better for me), the Apps folder gone and LaunchPad make me loose time. The one who make me donwgrade was the Autosave feature, it is good for students and home users but not for PROS, we like to have FULL CONTROL and decide when and what to save, and when to choose Save As... It was a nightmare.

Just drag your applications folder into the dock..

----------

Lion is a very decent and needed upgrade from SL.
Reverting to an older OS is just rediculous in my opinion.

What possible reason would a person have to actually revert back? (aside from the obvious software incompatibilities that might occur)

arrogance. The same thing that pc religious people bag mac over :P

----------

Ho-hum.. :)

On July 19 I predicted that around 24% of all who installed Lion would shortly go back to Snow Leopard:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12966726&postcount=40

The poll indicates, at the time of writing this post, a percentage with just a few decimals above 24%. Told you ;)

you're a hero, what would we do without u

hipollito
Sep 20, 2011, 08:23 PM
Are you running VM 3 or 4 on Lion?

Hello I am using 3.1.3 and t runs really nice, actually I think I like it more than parallels, that I used with SL. I only use windows (XP) for 3d modeling in rhino and it runs great!

Chase R
Sep 20, 2011, 11:35 PM
If Apple would just fix Mission Control, I would be happy with Lion. At least give us the ability to arrange Spaces in Mission Control!

wikus
Sep 20, 2011, 11:41 PM
If Apple would just fix Mission Control, I would be happy with Lion. At least give us the ability to arrange Spaces in Mission Control!

On/Off buttons for certain things in mission control would fix everything;

on/off for spaces being shows at all (and hide the ugly grey border)
on/off for grouping open windows in a single application

fact is, rearranging shouldnt even be an on/off switch, it should just be there by default.

AppleFanatic10
Sep 21, 2011, 10:32 AM
I have a partition of both Snow Leopard and Lion. If I ever get tired of Lion; I can just switch back to my other partition. Soooo easy :-)

Steve's Barber
Sep 21, 2011, 11:30 AM
I have a partition of both Snow Leopard and Lion. If I ever get tired of Lion; I can just switch back to my other partition. Soooo easy :-)

And you're proud of this? (enough to post about it anyway). This sounds really dumb. Seriously.

AppleFanatic10
Sep 21, 2011, 01:32 PM
And you're proud of this? (enough to post about it anyway). This sounds really dumb. Seriously.

I'm perfectly fine with it. And no need for you to be a smart ass.

hexonxonx
Sep 21, 2011, 01:51 PM
And you're proud of this? (enough to post about it anyway). This sounds really dumb. Seriously.

What is dumb about it besides your post?

Pentad
Sep 21, 2011, 03:21 PM
Back to SL for me. I've always been a bit apprehensive when it comes to upgrading ever since Tiger came out. From 10.1 -> .2 and -> .3 was easy - it was all new features and performance, and basically nothing taken away.

Tiger .4 concerned me given I had old hardware at the time, but I jumped straight on the bandwagon when I went Intel.

Leopard was a hard sell, I was concerned that the silly new 3D dock etc. would slow my system down (and I was right, but thankfully you can turn it 2D. Yus!).

Snow Leopard was about the easiest decision in the world, but I instantly regretted it because it ruined Expose for me by removing the relative sizings of windows, and moving the windows around too much.

Lion... well. What a cluster****. If all you do with your Mac is use it in isolation for web browsing, mail, and the occasional video, go ahead. It's got some new eye candy (Mail, iCal, Launchpad, rubber band scrolling - yuck), and some features that dumb down some of the previously power-user features and make them more accessible (Mission Control).

But if you use your mac as a serious tool... well... Here's a list for you:
It's slower. (Post indexing, on both a Late 2008 Unibody 15" MBP, 2011 13" MBP) The new gestures are disgusting. The thumb pinch is impossible, and the 2 finger swipe clashes with scrolling and doesn't work properly outside Safari. Mission Control, while a good feature of its own accord, is not a replacement for Spaces and Expose. Why did Apple have to take these features away? What's wrong with having both Mission Control and the old Spaces/Expose? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me... The new autosave document model might be "the way of the future", but when it comes to network devices and removable storage, YAY for holding on to billions of file handles and ****ing up my battery life, sleep routines, and general chi. iCal peaked in 10.4. Ever since, it's been going downhill in terms of usability. This new leather feel is just another kick in the guts. The multi-monitor issues. Display colour profiles not working on multimonitor systems, fullscreen apps not working on multimonitor systems, mission control being spastic on multimonitor systems... where's the quality control?! There have been numerous issues with regards to upgrading from old installs. While it's always a bit of a hot topic, it's just another thorn in the side. Safari 5.1 has serious issues. Memory leaks galore leaving me with no available RAM and causing my system to swap like a mofo. Extremely uncool. Finder. Oh dear. "All my files" has no place on the system of anyone who knows what a file is, and this new grouped inline coverflow view is both tacky (like Coverflow itself), and extremely slow. Finder's sidebar is now even less useful. Compare and contrast to Windows 7. Sigh.


I expected a lot more. I was looking forward to some of the cooler features of iOS - like saving application state, and good integration with things like GMail. I certainly didn't expect my operating system to start making decisions about which of my apps to keep open. I know this better than any algorithm ever will, Apple.

So, I reverted back to Snow Leopard (and in fact suprred me to find a Beta version of SL's Dock.app to get 10.5's expose, which I find vastly superior to SL's). It's better than SL has ever been for me - I highly recommend it.

What really irks me is the cavalier attitude Apple are now taking toward more professional users like myself. Previous editions of Mac OS X didn't really take away features; certainly not ones as prominent as Spaces and Expose - yet they are content to simply wipe the board clean with new UI tools that I believe one could empirically prove worse.

In the past, OS X felt like it was built by a team of interaction designers. People that understood how both novice and expert users work with computers, and who were able to craft a solid experience across the whole spectrum. Now, OS X feels like it's drawn by graphic designers and animators, who are concerned with flashy eye candy and have little regard to the human-computer interaction.

I love my Macbook Pro. There's nothing even remotely close to the form factor in the PC world. But I find myself longing for the utilitarianism that is Windows. (The lack of a 1440x900 panel and low-cost SSD on the now-rather-overpriced 13" Macbook Pro really isn't helping either)...

Boy you nailed it! I am tired of the coffee-house-surfers who don't really use their MBP for work claiming Lion is bug free.

I DO use my MBP for work and the bugs are driving me crazy. I too wish I knew where QA was in testing Lion. Ever get the feeling that iOS gets more TLC @ Apple?? Also, I wish there was a comprehensive bug list for Lion because I would like to add all mine to it.

Frankly, I'm worried that Lion won't mature until 10.7.5.

Finally, I love my MBP, think Apple is ok, and even think MS is ok. I believe my MBP is probably the best tool I'ver ever owned. I am just frustrated with Apple that some of the most obvious bugs weren't addressed before shipping. SL was an OS that was firing on all cylinders for me so Lion has some pretty big shoes to fill and Apple let us down.

I'm not saying that I think Lion is Vista but the bugs need to be fixed and I wish they would bring back Spaces/Expose.

-P

nilk
Sep 21, 2011, 03:47 PM
I upgraded 2 out of 3 of my Macs: an early-2008 MBP and a 2006 Mac Pro. I did an upgrade, not a clean install. I have since switched back to Snow Leopard on the early-2008 MBP because of wifi issues and weird random slow down issues (that required a reboot to fix). I probably could have done more to try and fix the wifi issues (clean install, some possible workarounds), but I don't have time to waste and switching back to SL using my Time Machine backup was really effortless and it worked even though I had been doing Lion backups on top of it (just had to choose the 10.6.8 backup to restore from).

My initial impressions of Lion were pretty good. Most of the things people complain about don't affect me. I never used Expose and I'll never use Mission Control, so that change doesn't bother me. Full screen with multi-monitors is implemented completely wrong, but I've been able to workaround this in the apps it matters in (Quicktime Player I just maximize the window instead of full screen, and since it has no window borders this works ok). All the silly default settings I've been able to revert back to what I'm used to. I don't like Finder's grey icons and arrangement, but not a big deal, I'll get used to it. There are plenty of things I like about Lion, but those are all minor tweaks (some of which have been much needed).

But it's due to the bugs that I'm not ready for the switch to Lion. Whether or not these issues are because I didn't do a clean install, because of 3rd party apps I'm using, or whatever, it doesn't really matter. I don't have time to do a clean install right now and figure out what 3rd party app is causing problems, etc, so restoring my SL backup is the quickest, easiest solution to my problems.

On the Mac Pro I've had some problems. I suspect that Apple's software RAID is buggy in Lion because I stopped having kernel panics after I removed a RAID 0 array that I had created with Lion, but I've never had good luck with Apple's software RAID. I'm having issues with the VNC server being unusable with 3rd party clients, but there's some possible solutions I still haven't tried. I haven't decided whether I will restore SL on this machine or not yet.

Though I have issues with Lion, I'm not upset about this at all. I'm a software developer and I know how difficult it can be to release bug free software. And this is not the first time a new OS X release has had problems (I had problems early versions of SL), so it was not unexpected and I had a backup plan to revert back to SL. I know I'll be forced to upgrade to Lion (or beyond) at some point, by either hardware or software that requires it. But by that time I expect it will be considerably more bug free, and I will choose to do it at a time when I can do a clean install and sort out problems.

vitzr
Sep 21, 2011, 04:05 PM
Snow Leopard is not a downgrade. Period. It's the best of the 10.6.x series.

Here's how I know. Because I have several Macs and a robust home network all centered around OS X 10.6.5. I have zero desire to muck up any of my machines with Lion, just to try it. So I bought a new Lion equipped MBA from Amazon when they offered the 20% discount, free shipping (in my case) and no tax. This gave me the opportunity to experience Lion without disturbing the setup I already have.

I do find Lion interesting, and I think that Apple has done an excellent job when viewed from their perspective. When viewed from mine, there are features that I have no use for. That doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it's not for me. There is nothing in Lion that will make me enjoy the new MBP, MBA, and Mac Pro's I have any more than I already am.

I understand that many must have the latest and "greatest" to fulfill themselves. Others must have it because they feel left behind by not keeping up with others. Then there are those who find the features in Lion compelling and useful to them. Now that is a good reason to migrate to Lion.

But to come right out and say that Snow Leopard is a downgrade, is a bit shortsighted.

Snow Leopard does everything I want and need. Both for personal and work. The speed and stability are excellent and I am completely satisfied.

You can't ask for more than that. :)

MartiNZ
Sep 21, 2011, 11:09 PM
Boy you nailed it! I am tired of the coffee-house-surfers who don't really use their MBP for work claiming Lion is bug free.

I DO use my MBP for work and the bugs are driving me crazy. I too wish I knew where QA was in testing Lion. Ever get the feeling that iOS gets more TLC @ Apple?? Also, I wish there was a comprehensive bug list for Lion because I would like to add all mine to it.

Frankly, I'm worried that Lion won't mature until 10.7.5.

Finally, I love my MBP, think Apple is ok, and even think MS is ok. I believe my MBP is probably the best tool I'ver ever owned. I am just frustrated with Apple that some of the most obvious bugs weren't addressed before shipping. SL was an OS that was firing on all cylinders for me so Lion has some pretty big shoes to fill and Apple let us down.

I'm not saying that I think Lion is Vista but the bugs need to be fixed and I wish they would bring back Spaces/Expose.

-P

And I think you're being optimistic. I don't think they -will- go back on their new flawed methodologies in Lion's time, not by 10.7.5 or even 10.7.10 should there be such a thing. And if they don't go back, I don't go back. I restarted into Lion the other day, it had been a few weeks since my MBP left Windows 7 ... and neither of us enjoyed it.

Gurutech
Sep 22, 2011, 02:19 AM
My MBP came with SL disc.
But I was able to redeem Lion and checked it out.
I was so disappointed with it (mainly due to space change), I reverted back to SL.
I'm going to use SL as long as I can.
All the new features of Lion are not that attractive yet.

DaffyDuck
Sep 22, 2011, 07:33 AM
I've personally filed 3 bug reports for Lion, one of which has been marked as duplicate. The one that bugs me the most basically negates using my brand new Mac Mini Server as a media player in my living room. Video freezes onscreen when logging into a secondary account using screen sharing. It's a server, it should handle multiple accounts very well and I should be able to do other things with it while it's playing a movie. If only I could downgrade to Snow Leopard...

tigres
Sep 22, 2011, 08:43 PM
Had an issue this week with my sons MM account and syncing w/iPhone. At any rate, I had a MM chat with apple support.

The gentleman asked me to log in to his iCal on his mac and re-enter his password. I had forgotten my son was running Lion on his Macbook, so I grabbed his Mac, went into iCal. Had to go into prefs, which then opened sys prefs....

Well, spinning BB, Spinning BB. Sys Prefs closes.
Re-open sys prefs, iCal crashes...

I tell tech support (on my MBA) one moment, iCal crashed on his Mac, I'm working on it.

Rep says, is he running Lion?- I say yeah.
Response. Take your time....

Priceless.

harcosparky
Sep 22, 2011, 08:48 PM
I had SL on my brand new MBP when I bought it -- LION came out not long after.

I upgraded to LION for a while and thought it was OK but I did revert back to SL for several reason. The most prominent reason was to clean up some massive photo libraries. I got tired of buying bigger HDD's and decided it was time to clean house. Went to SL for this because I did not want to run the risk of LION somehow doing anything funky to the library so that when I copied the library back onto my SL iMac it would be fine.

All is well now on that end and I may reinstall LION and give it a more roust effort.


Snow Leopard does everything I want and need. Both for personal and work. The speed and stability are excellent and I am completely satisfied.

You can't ask for more than that. :)

Have to agree with you. One thing I can say about LION in my time using it, the way it affected my workflow it sort of slowed me down.

When I reverted to SL I was getting work done faster. I admit though not being totally comfortable in using LION contributed to the 'slow down'.

.

andrewjthrelfo
Sep 22, 2011, 10:25 PM
I've temporarily downgraded back to Snow Leopard. It's a very nice OS, but it isn't stable enough at the moment for running Logic Pro and MainStage all the time. I'll try it again early next year, and I think that by then it should be good to go :)

tigres
Sep 28, 2011, 08:43 PM
Can anyone explain this.

I have 24mb Uverse connection, and this eve when I got home it was crawling at 3 mb down. I did everything we all normally do:

Restarted my MBA - no effect
Restarted the modem then router- still slow.
Called AT&T to see if their was an outage - nope.
Thought I might check other devices in the house, so my son had his MacBook open on his bed on. It was sleeping, so when I woke it I saw iTunes open, word, and preview. His is on Lion- so I thought wth, restarted it.

I went downstairs and checked the speed- bam back to normal? Is this lion related too? Anyone have this experience before on any system bogging down an entire network?

Btw- no he does not have torrent software.

bruleke
Sep 28, 2011, 09:17 PM
Back to SL for me. I've always been a bit apprehensive when it comes to upgrading ever since Tiger came out. From 10.1 -> .2 and -> .3 was easy - it was all new features and performance, and basically nothing taken away.

Tiger .4 concerned me given I had old hardware at the time, but I jumped straight on the bandwagon when I went Intel.

Leopard was a hard sell, I was concerned that the silly new 3D dock etc. would slow my system down (and I was right, but thankfully you can turn it 2D. Yus!).

Snow Leopard was about the easiest decision in the world, but I instantly regretted it because it ruined Expose for me by removing the relative sizings of windows, and moving the windows around too much.

Lion... well. What a cluster****. If all you do with your Mac is use it in isolation for web browsing, mail, and the occasional video, go ahead. It's got some new eye candy (Mail, iCal, Launchpad, rubber band scrolling - yuck), and some features that dumb down some of the previously power-user features and make them more accessible (Mission Control).

But if you use your mac as a serious tool... well... Here's a list for you:
It's slower. (Post indexing, on both a Late 2008 Unibody 15" MBP, 2011 13" MBP) The new gestures are disgusting. The thumb pinch is impossible, and the 2 finger swipe clashes with scrolling and doesn't work properly outside Safari. Mission Control, while a good feature of its own accord, is not a replacement for Spaces and Expose. Why did Apple have to take these features away? What's wrong with having both Mission Control and the old Spaces/Expose? They don't seem mutually exclusive to me... The new autosave document model might be "the way of the future", but when it comes to network devices and removable storage, YAY for holding on to billions of file handles and ****ing up my battery life, sleep routines, and general chi. iCal peaked in 10.4. Ever since, it's been going downhill in terms of usability. This new leather feel is just another kick in the guts. The multi-monitor issues. Display colour profiles not working on multimonitor systems, fullscreen apps not working on multimonitor systems, mission control being spastic on multimonitor systems... where's the quality control?! There have been numerous issues with regards to upgrading from old installs. While it's always a bit of a hot topic, it's just another thorn in the side. Safari 5.1 has serious issues. Memory leaks galore leaving me with no available RAM and causing my system to swap like a mofo. Extremely uncool. Finder. Oh dear. "All my files" has no place on the system of anyone who knows what a file is, and this new grouped inline coverflow view is both tacky (like Coverflow itself), and extremely slow. Finder's sidebar is now even less useful. Compare and contrast to Windows 7. Sigh.


I expected a lot more. I was looking forward to some of the cooler features of iOS - like saving application state, and good integration with things like GMail. I certainly didn't expect my operating system to start making decisions about which of my apps to keep open. I know this better than any algorithm ever will, Apple.

So, I reverted back to Snow Leopard (and in fact suprred me to find a Beta version of SL's Dock.app to get 10.5's expose, which I find vastly superior to SL's). It's better than SL has ever been for me - I highly recommend it.

What really irks me is the cavalier attitude Apple are now taking toward more professional users like myself. Previous editions of Mac OS X didn't really take away features; certainly not ones as prominent as Spaces and Expose - yet they are content to simply wipe the board clean with new UI tools that I believe one could empirically prove worse.

In the past, OS X felt like it was built by a team of interaction designers. People that understood how both novice and expert users work with computers, and who were able to craft a solid experience across the whole spectrum. Now, OS X feels like it's drawn by graphic designers and animators, who are concerned with flashy eye candy and have little regard to the human-computer interaction.

I love my Macbook Pro. There's nothing even remotely close to the form factor in the PC world. But I find myself longing for the utilitarianism that is Windows. (The lack of a 1440x900 panel and low-cost SSD on the now-rather-overpriced 13" Macbook Pro really isn't helping either)...

THANKS YOU, thank you so much.
I was almost going to buy Lion after dreaming with a brand new OS, but after doing some research on the internet and CONFIRMING with your post, I wont do that.
Apple... what have you done? You really screwed this time... there's poop everywhere! WITH CORN!

chocolatejeff
Sep 28, 2011, 10:32 PM
I've downgraded... for now because of several issues with some apps and wi-fi performance

I still have a back up lion OS fresh install on an ext which I do my developing work for fun :P but my main machine is SL and performance is top notch... better than than lion for now

Looking forward to 10.7.2 and hopefully fixes many issues with current state of Lion so it can be my main OS again :) I really like some features like the autosaving and versions..

ozaz
Oct 9, 2011, 05:01 PM
I dislike a couple of things about Lion, but on balance I prefer it to Snow Leopard so I'm definitely sticking with it.

What I like: Gestures, Mission control, Improved filevault, Full screen apps, Versions
What I dislike: The iOSifying of Mail and iCal, No Rosetta, Resume, Full screen apps not properly integrated into multi-monitor setups

krzyglue
Oct 10, 2011, 02:40 AM
Is anyone else experiencing memory issues with Lion? At least with Safari, I swear after a few hours of usage, it swallows up far too much memory. In fact, it gets so bad that occasionally the entire system becomes unusable until I quit Safari. I do not remember this happening with Snow Leopard, not once.

I'd love to try a clean install of Lion, but I don't have a large enough external hard-drive handy to backup all my data at the moment. Then again, if upgrading is the reason behind this, that's still a pretty big flaw.

TheRdungeon
Oct 10, 2011, 08:37 AM
Is anyone else experiencing memory issues with Lion? At least with Safari, I swear after a few hours of usage, it swallows up far too much memory. In fact, it gets so bad that occasionally the entire system becomes unusable until I quit Safari. I do not remember this happening with Snow Leopard, not once.

I'd love to try a clean install of Lion, but I don't have a large enough external hard-drive handy to backup all my data at the moment. Then again, if upgrading is the reason behind this, that's still a pretty big flaw.

Yeah I have the same issue, sometimes safari can be using 1.5GB (safari and "safari web content" combined). I'm really looking forward to 10.7.2, things are running all good really, I chucked some more ram in which definitely helps. I think these will be ironed out in time, that's what usually happens. A little bit pissed off i jumped on lion this early but got a new MBP so decided to start with it from day one

iBug2
Oct 10, 2011, 09:44 AM
Boy you nailed it! I am tired of the coffee-house-surfers who don't really use their MBP for work claiming Lion is bug free.

I DO use my MBP for work and the bugs are driving me crazy.

I use my MBP with Lion for my work and it's bug free for me.

Depends on what your work is. Meaning it depends what apps you use for your work. Meaning it depends whether those 3rd party apps are working ok with Lion.

wrldwzrd89
Oct 10, 2011, 09:50 AM
I went beyond a simple downgrade to Snow Leopard... I switched my primary operating system to Ubuntu Linux, relegating my Mac to a secondary computer role. That's how fed up with Lion's bugs I was.

mark28
Oct 10, 2011, 01:03 PM
I installed Snow Leopard in the weekend and it's great being able to run ALL Mac software and my Mac works much better.

And my system doesn't hog anymore like Lion did when multitasking with 4 gb of Ram.

Also Finder and gestures works with Snow Leopard much better, Lion was giving me headaches with it's inconsistent gestures ( sometimes 2 finger swipes, but with an other Application you needed to use 3 finger swipes for the same thing. And I was really fighting with the new Finder alot. I just don't like it )

The only good things that Lion adds for me is Launchpad and Mission Control. But I rather have a better computer than having Launchpad and Mission Control.

tigres
Oct 13, 2011, 10:33 AM
Well, looks like the thread is going to take a turn. We SN users may be forced to update to Lion, irregardless of our wants with this new MM/iCloud/Lack of SL support fiasco.

Who would of thought to remain on a stable OS that we would revert to using VMWare/windows, to keep our contacts/calendars and mail in sync? irony at it's finest.

Nice job Cloud team @apple- pat yourself's on the back :rolleyes:

/sarcasm

leo.andres.21
Oct 13, 2011, 11:38 AM
I think Lion is pretty snappy from what I have used so far. Not many problems, except for maybe when iCloud is loading on Safari, it cause the heat to go up and fans to start spinning louder. iCloud is quite unstable at the moment too, so probably not Lion's problem.
Mission control and the gestures work quite well. so I am definitely sticking with Lion :apple:

GermanyChris
Oct 13, 2011, 11:44 AM
I came back to Lion with the .2 release seems to have fixed my complaints..

tigres
Oct 13, 2011, 11:47 AM
I came back to Lion with the .2 release seems to have fixed my complaints..

How is the .2 release? Did you test finder hard to see if you can connect to other folders on networked machines?

etc...

did not know they even released .2 tbh

wrldwzrd89
Oct 13, 2011, 12:52 PM
How is the .2 release? Did you test finder hard to see if you can connect to other folders on networked machines?

etc...

did not know they even released .2 tbh
Sigh, my WAV audio getting cut off bug isn't fixed in 10.7.2 :(

krzyglue
Oct 13, 2011, 12:52 PM
Yes 10.7.2 seems to run far better. In fact, I daresay it runs well enough that I am not thinking about downgrading anymore ;) Especially with the recent iCloud release...

They seem to have fixed the Safari memory issues as well, which were my biggest concern.

scottsjack
Oct 13, 2011, 01:04 PM
Yes 10.7.2 seems to run far better. In fact, I daresay it runs well enough that I am not thinking about downgrading anymore ;) Especially with the recent iCloud release...

They seem to have fixed the Safari memory issues as well, which were my biggest concern.

True. 10.7.2 runs better on my mini. Safari also seems more responsive. I still prefer SL so I haven't switched over my other Macs. iCloud is a non-issue to me.

I don't see any reason to put my data on iCloud. I'd rather have it stored locally even with a non-iTunes identity for iCloud.

GermanyChris
Oct 13, 2011, 01:17 PM
How is the .2 release? Did you test finder hard to see if you can connect to other folders on networked machines?

etc...

did not know they even released .2 tbh

I don't have a network..

CS5 runs fine

Wacom works

Battery life is back

Safari mem leak is fixed

Those were my complaints

Steve's Barber
Oct 13, 2011, 01:26 PM
I never really had problems with the Lion bugs being cited here from the first 2 releases. (Or they were so minor I worked around them).

My issues are the design implementation of Spaces/Expose which will never change unless a 3rd party provides something better so that's moot.

That said, iCloud is what I needed. Finally iCal ToDo's (reminders) actually go to my iPhone with iOS5. I still think Snow Leopard isn't as bloated and is much more responsive. Especially for those of us that don't have SSD's. (Which is what Lion is really meant for).

tigres
Oct 20, 2011, 08:51 PM
Any business users finding prime time w/Lion .2 update and folder sharing and networking in windows environments? Better yet?

clientsiman
Oct 21, 2011, 04:02 AM
I am sticking with Lion. I have found solutions to most of my problems. I still don't like mission control, I think is a step backwards but I can live with it.

JParsley
Oct 21, 2011, 07:54 AM
Any business users finding prime time w/Lion .2 update and folder sharing and networking in windows environments? Better yet?
10.7.2 didn't touch any of the windows sharing issues we were having.

I called AppleCare (edit: months ago) with my issue and the rep was able to reproduce it on his setup. He said it would be fixed in an update. I also gave Apple feedback on their site too.

Maybe the 3rd time is the charm (10.7.3)?

GuitarG20
Oct 21, 2011, 08:12 AM
I am still waiting for Apple to fix the issue with Mission Control windows being grouped on top of each other, but other than that I am staying on Lion still.

tigres
Oct 21, 2011, 08:22 AM
10.7.2 didn't touch any of the windows sharing issues we were having.

I called AppleCare (edit: months ago) with my issue and the rep was able to reproduce it on his setup. He said it would be fixed in an update. I also gave Apple feedback on their site too.

Maybe the 3rd time is the charm (10.7.3)?


Roger that, Thanks very much for that info. No upgrade for me still, no iCloud for iPhone 4S, and will cross fingers for iCloud SL support I suppose.

Man, I just can't get over how they let this networking issue just slide- absolutely unbelievable.

Young Spade
Oct 21, 2011, 08:24 AM
I never went to Lion because of how bad the reviews and whatnot made it out to be. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure is a great update to snow leopard, but personally I like spaces and exposé, and I don't really think I can get by without that.

Paul Graham
Oct 21, 2011, 03:29 PM
Im not a pro or a novice, I don't use my Mac for 'business' but I do use it for work ( a lot of it online )

YES it does have issues that wind me up, However, It does feel like a good OS with a lot of potential!

Im staying with Lion in the hope that the bugs get ironed out soon.


Saying all that, Up until a year ago I was an Avid Windows user, So "Waiting" on a more stable update is something Ive grown used to to over the years :p lol!

I reverted back to XP many times, HATED vista, And Liked 7 but at that point was getting bored.

So far I've only used Leopard on my eMac and the Jump to Lion for me has been ok, Apart from using the use of some apps and some quirky little bugs.

bill-p
Oct 22, 2011, 11:21 AM
I think I said this before... but I went from 10.6.8 to 10.7, then back to 10.6.8 and again to 10.7.1, and then back again to 10.6.8, then recently to 10.7.2 for a brief period of... 4 days, before finally going back to 10.6.8 again just 2 days ago.

I just can't tolerate 10.7, I guess. Spotlight indexing grinds me the wrong way every reinstall, even though it only takes approximately 40 minutes to finish. Battery life is really bad under Lion, and I can barely maintain 5 hours of regular usage, or 6 hours while nitpicking through a PDF. I can get 10 hours without trying under Snow Leopard.

The rest is just silly small bugs with third-party softwares and handling multiple monitors and so on. I could tolerate those, but bad battery life is something I can't tolerate on my Macbook.

tigres
Oct 23, 2011, 11:15 AM
I think I said this before... but I went from 10.6.8 to 10.7, then back to 10.6.8 and again to 10.7.1, and then back again to 10.6.8, then recently to 10.7.2 for a brief period of... 4 days, before finally going back to 10.6.8 again just 2 days ago.

I just can't tolerate 10.7, I guess. Spotlight indexing grinds me the wrong way every reinstall, even though it only takes approximately 40 minutes to finish. Battery life is really bad under Lion, and I can barely maintain 5 hours of regular usage, or 6 hours while nitpicking through a PDF. I can get 10 hours without trying under Snow Leopard.

The rest is just silly small bugs with third-party softwares and handling multiple monitors and so on. I could tolerate those, but bad battery life is something I can't tolerate on my Macbook.

Good lord, talk about a lot of work. :eek:

FurryFoxMacuser
Oct 23, 2011, 07:32 PM
I was going to b/c I couldn't watch youtube vids but I just did a software update and got lion version 10.7.2 and tis working great now. :)

Dolorian
Oct 24, 2011, 11:18 AM
Downgraded, recently. I just can't be with an OS that makes my computer screen go black randomly whenever I am using it. Not to mention the long list of annoyances and "features" that just hinder usability and productivity. As well as the overall slowness of the system. My day has already been brighter after leaving Lion.

I wonder, has anyone successfully imported the mailboxes from Lion's Mail into Snow Leopard's?

cal6n
Oct 24, 2011, 01:14 PM
I originally voted to stick with Lion but I've changed my mind. I've rolled 3 Macs back to snowy.

ggpike
Oct 25, 2011, 07:59 AM
I won't be upgrading my design firm's Macs to Lion until they fix the issue of not being able to use multiple custom color profiles on dual monitor setups.

There are workarounds that you can do every time you connect, reconnect, bootup, etc, but that is a workaround that we don't have time for. This is a pretty huge issue for those of us in the design and photography field. Whether Lion will play nice with the rest of our hardware remains to be seen, but without the aforementioned issue being addressed I'm not willing to find out.

Socrate
Oct 25, 2011, 10:13 AM
WOW! What an amaizing number of Apple customers dumped their latest OS version. 31% is fairly too much.
Lion is actually not the next Vista. It looks to be even worst.
As for me, how could I imagine about 3 and a half years ago when I went to the Mac Store for my first Mac ever... I had a perfectly running Slackware GNU+Linux dual booting with FreeBSD on my PC. A PC that was way better than the overpriced Mac Mini that I've bought. I had Asus mobo, Corsair DDR3 memory, 1TB WD SATA hdd, Plextor DVD writer, Nvidia 8600 video card and DVB Tuner on my self-build system which costed me no more than €400. And I went for a big downgrade of a late 2007 Mac Mini hardware just to be able to run Mac OS X natively and not cheat Apple by not hacking their OS which I liket at this time. It WAS exactly Mac OS X that drived me to buy my Mac. It WAS power-user friendly then. Leopard just worked like my GNU+Linux but was a bit more user-friendly. Day after day I've noticed the real limitations of choosing Apple's platform for day-to-day usage. However with Lion the limitations went way further making me frustrated. My OS had to decide which downloads are safe for me (hello MacDefender), I had to download latest software at Mac Application Store and thus I had to register for Apple account, because some developers migrated from regular and secure HTTP downloads to MAS downloads. Who is Apple to decide what software should I run on my OWN computer? Not to end here: Lion is even more limited using a classic mouse as HID. I've just spent €30 for a slowly running and even more limited OS than befor and now Apple is willing me to spent yet another €70 for a Magic Trackpad (though dunno where is the magic of this space-eating device).
Well this was all enough to just say NO. I've downloaded latest netinst version of Debian GNU/Linux from one of the thousands mirrors worldwire. It is free in every sense of the word FREE. I've deployed it on my Mac Mini and now my 3 and a half years old computer is living a new life. It runs pretty faster than using Lion. All hardware is working like champain... Yes, even my Apple Remote, my Wireless Keyboard, temperature sensors etc. GNOME is not as bloated as Lion and it never drops my Wireless connection. 64 bit Opera for GNU/Linux is working faster than its 32 bit Mac OS Version.
I am completely satisified from my swith back to GNU/Linux and think that I will never again make the same mistake - buying anything other from Apple and getting into their deadly loop of constant paid software upgrades and hardware upgrades. I'm saving my money just on the verge of the next economic depression which is already coming.
I've registered here just to post how screwed and ripped I feel by spending my money on Mac OS Lion and this should be my last message here. I hope that it helps some of Apple consumers to take their decision without feeling fscked up just like me. It is never late to bring software freedom back to your computer. Reconquer your own computer now and say no to proprietary software with all of its limitations!

vincebio
Oct 25, 2011, 10:19 AM
i downgraded...but not because of the OS...although expose should be brought back immediately.

it was due to compatibility with Audio apps and my Soundcard...

other than those, Lion looks pretty good to me

Young Spade
Oct 25, 2011, 10:29 AM
At socrate you do know we at macrumors make up like, less than 0.001 percent right? This poll in relation to actual numbers holds no relevance whatsoever.

farmermac
Oct 25, 2011, 11:20 AM
it's unfortunate, but when my current systems are up for replacement i'll mostly likely take a hard look @ windows 8. Lion is a step in the wrong direction.

KPOM
Oct 25, 2011, 04:20 PM
it's unfortunate, but when my current systems are up for replacement i'll mostly likely take a hard look @ windows 8. Lion is a step in the wrong direction.

Windows 8 is even more of a radical departure from Windows 7 than Lion was from Snow Leopard. If you think Lion has gotten too much like a tablet OS, then you won't like Windows 8, either. The Start menu is gone, replaced by the WP7-style Metro UI. While the desktop UI is still there for legacy applications, the focus will be on the Metro apps, which run full screen.

tigres
Oct 25, 2011, 04:22 PM
Windows 8 is even more of a radical departure from Windows 7 than Lion was from Snow Leopard. If you think Lion has gotten too much like a tablet OS, then you won't like Windows 8, either. The Start menu is gone, replaced by the WP7-style Metro UI. While the desktop UI is still there for legacy applications, the focus will be on the Metro apps, which run full screen.

There actually re-thinking that and listening to their developer base actually. Just read something on that last week.

Young Spade
Oct 25, 2011, 05:11 PM
Windows 8 is even more of a radical departure from Windows 7 than Lion was from Snow Leopard. If you think Lion has gotten too much like a tablet OS, then you won't like Windows 8, either. The Start menu is gone, replaced by the WP7-style Metro UI. While the desktop UI is still there for legacy applications, the focus will be on the Metro apps, which run full screen.

I think the point he's making is that the jump from SL to Lion hindered productivity in many ways. There are a ton of little changes, both in UI and functionality, that make Lion a bit f a bother to many people.

That's the reason I haven't used my free upgrade. The fact that there are no spaces and expose is a big hit; the UI tweaks that are more demanding on system resources isn't what I like either.

I'm missing out on iCloud but I'm willing to let that pass for the speed and efficiency I have with SL.

scottsjack
Oct 25, 2011, 05:52 PM
Windows 8 is even more of a radical departure from Windows 7 than Lion was from Snow Leopard. If you think Lion has gotten too much like a tablet OS, then you won't like Windows 8, either. The Start menu is gone, replaced by the WP7-style Metro UI. While the desktop UI is still there for legacy applications, the focus will be on the Metro apps, which run full screen.

Not quite true. For the developer preview it only takes one registry value change and the W7 start screen is returned. I get the green log on screen and then it immediately goes to the windows desktop which I have configured exactly like my two W7 installations.

----------

There actually re-thinking that and listening to their developer base actually. Just read something on that last week.

True. Unlike another company that I'm familiar with MSFT openly dialoging with developers and users. It's getting pretty hot over there at http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/ . My guess is that Metro will be there for tablets while Aero will be for desktop users. If that turns out to be true all users will win.

I would love to see Apple take the same approach.

Drag'nGT
Oct 25, 2011, 08:06 PM
I like Lion. I got on it with the iCloud launch to keep my phone and computer synced. There are some features I really like and some that are unnoticeable.

dpo
Oct 26, 2011, 06:46 AM
Planning to do so today from a Carbon Copy Clone backup.

The pointless and unnecessary Finder redesign, the loss of my beloved 'Find by Filename' keyboard shortcut (coupled with spotlight indexing of NTFS drives, this actually led to cross-drive format indexing bliss...alas too briefly), pointless cosmetic rubbish in lieu of real value, problems starting up, and other issues described already in this thread.

At least MS listened and acknowledged complaints of Vista and produced something in many ways superior to even Snow Leopard in Win7. Will Apple do the same?

roadbloc
Oct 26, 2011, 07:02 AM
I upgraded back to Snow Leopard. Lion is a horrible inconstant buggy mess atm.

daneoni
Oct 26, 2011, 07:36 AM
Still sticking with SL.

Played with Lion and it just felt like a downgrade to me. More negatives than positives in its current form.

tigres
Oct 26, 2011, 08:20 AM
You folks want to know what pisses me off about this whole Lion/iCloud mess.

I posted in another thread this problem.
I have SL on my MBA; but my son and wife have iOS 5 and Lion on their machines (they could care less, as long as email and internet/gaming is OK)
I also moved them to iCloud (only those 2 accounts) because I wanted to use find my friends with my son's device and other features on iOS5.

Did my homework. Even emailed Tim Cook about the mess w/iCloud-MM (it was not a rant btw, it was kindly worded). Got a call same day from executive relations. Long story short, lady tells me SL will still work with MM, no problem and with iCloud they work in sync blah blah...

So, I move them to iCloud. Back up their cal's and addy's. Done.

Now comes the fun part. Our shared calendars (2 of them) (1) Travel and (2) My sons school Calendar (extremely busy schedule) can NO LONGER be shared!

Can you believe this, now on my MM It says that I need iCloud to share a MM calendar with an iCloud (family). WTF :apple:

Can't run Lion, must upgrade to iCloud to share a f'n calendar with my Wife and son, and if I do upgrade to iCloud- guess what; I need Lion.

So so so disgusted.

Dolorian
Oct 26, 2011, 12:03 PM
I don't even know what to do anymore (as outlined in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=13728386#post13728386)). Switching from Lion to Snow Leopard didn't solve anything and switching back to Lion and applying the recent MacBook Pro Video Update didn't fix anything. Still get the BSOD bug.

I can't afford a new computer now and frankly I shouldn't have to buy one because Apple's OS update messed my computer up. This is just a mess.

luke.mac1
Oct 27, 2011, 11:32 AM
I would love to be able to upgrade to Lion and use iCloud and whatever else. I've already paid for it, bought it on the day it came out BUT it made my iMac freeze ALL THE TIME. I'm contemplating upgrading again and seeing if the issue has gone away yet... there haven't been many posts about that issue recently...

Dolorian
Oct 28, 2011, 10:16 PM
After doing a clean install of Lion, I've found that it works a lot better now than it was when I upgraded to it from SL. It runs faster and I don't encounter the slowdowns or glitches I had anymore.

My only complain right now is that I am getting the BSOD bug.

tigres
Nov 6, 2011, 07:29 AM
Took my neighbors iMac for her business back down to SL yesterday. Just could not get it to act right. Problems galore, albeit a 2009 iMac, but has 4g ram I installed.

SL runs quick and smooth. Go figure, save me time in being neighborly with tech support.

hexonxonx
Nov 6, 2011, 07:56 AM
I have for the time being, removed my HD with Lion installed and installed SL on another HD and installed it in my MBP. This will allow me to one day easily move back to SL once I feel it has improved.

I had gotten tired of my MBP with 4GB ram taking forever to do things in my browsers such as Safari. Refreshing a tab would sometimes take five minutes or more. It was sometimes faster to just to force quit the browser and restart it than to wait for the tab to refresh.

I don't use my MBp for much anymore other than internet and iTunes for movies and TV shows and such but it was having trouble doing these things under Lion.

Steve's Barber
Nov 6, 2011, 09:58 AM
After doing a clean install of Lion, I've found that it works a lot better now than it was when I upgraded to it from SL. It runs faster and I don't encounter the slowdowns or glitches I had anymore.

My only complain right now is that I am getting the BSOD bug.

Sounds like a show stopper to me. :eek:

I understand folks sticking to Lion with all the minor annoyances and changes - it does have a few niceties. But this?

tigres
Dec 2, 2011, 02:30 PM
Quote from mom.

Why do I have to keep reconnecting to my wifi son? The other one worked better.

--> wishes he did not help by putting Lion on the MBP for her, gives her Tim's email addy.

:D

wikus
Dec 2, 2011, 02:42 PM
I went as far as deleting the Lion restore partition that came on my macbooks hard drive.

Its been a few months without Lion, and I love working with Expose. Also, SL uses less RAM :)

Gemütlichkeit
Dec 2, 2011, 05:06 PM
If ya got OS problems I feel bad for ya son.

I got 99 problems and Lion aint one.

quasinormal
Dec 2, 2011, 05:20 PM
I've had a few problems, but nothing that I didn't ultimately cause.

There are some things I don't like, but for some perverse and irrational (graphics maybe) reason I just really like it.

I think it will only be a matter of time before it ranked as highly as Leopard, Snow Leopard. Tiger and Panther.

Steve's Barber
Dec 2, 2011, 05:34 PM
I think it will only be a matter of time before it ranked as highly as Leopard, Snow Leopard. Tiger and Panther.That's not saying much. As time goes on people who have never used previous versions of OSX will never miss what they never had.

Dolorian
Dec 2, 2011, 06:56 PM
Sounds like a show stopper to me. :eek:

I understand folks sticking to Lion with all the minor annoyances and changes - it does have a few niceties. But this?

It happens even in SL after I installed Lion. It is the worst bug ever. I am taking the computer to the authorized Apple shop here.

gboswellsac
Dec 2, 2011, 10:02 PM
Alright how do I revert back to SL .... I have 514GB of data I cannot lose .. so a fresh install of SL is out.... anybody .... my main beef is the 2 - 5 time longer to connect to network either RJ45 or Wifi.....

Thanks or if there is no way then I will know....The apple experience may have flaws but 'll never go back to a M$ OS as my main box.... Univ provides a Dell i5 with Win7 enterprise ... but just can't get excited about it.... OS X rocks and that's from an old fart.....

QuarterSwede
Dec 2, 2011, 10:21 PM
my main beef is the 2 - 5 time longer to connect to network either RJ45 or Wifi.....
It shouldn't do that. One of the good things about Lion for me (I have a MacBook) is that wifi connects a lot faster than it did in SL.

WeegieMac
Dec 3, 2011, 02:21 AM
My new system set up is a main system with Snow Leopard and a smaller partition on my drive to run Lion and keep tabs on it's updates to see if it solves the performance issues on my iMac.

I've been a Mac user since OS X Panther, a relative "noob" to some other Mac users here, but as much as a like Lion's features I can't justify the performance drop for so little gain. There is nothing happening in Lion that is far in excess of what Snow Leopard does, nothing that overly taxes and tests my system, yet Lion has some quirky issues on my iMac that it's not worth the hassle. It takes away from the user experience.

Waking from sleep sees scrolling in Safari stammer and general UI navigation is sluggish. A reboot solves this, but again Snow Leopard ran flawlessly every time waking from sleep. And animations, they are woeful on my iMac. Launching "Launchpad" is smooth for the first hour or so of system use, but then it stutters or misses the fade in/out animation altogether and the same goes for going to/from full screen mode, it runs well for a while then turns into a slideshow.

They are simple animations, nothing Snow Leopard before it couldn't handle, and the proof of this is that even entering Time Machine can become a stutter-fest once the system has been on for a period of time, yet on Snow Leopard it's smooth every time.

Me going back to Snow Leopard is not a slur against Lion, I want to use Lion, but it's just not the fluid UI experience I've come to love on the Mac all these years. Snow Leopard remains the pinnacle of OS X performance for me, and again Lion is doing absolutely nothing ground breaking that pushes the system further than Snow Leopard did, so the performance drop is simply not worth the hassle.

wikus
Dec 3, 2011, 09:19 PM
Alright how do I revert back to SL

Make a new partition designated for OS 10.6 and keep your stuff on the other one. Its beneficial this way since if you ever need to format/clean install the main boot drive, you never have to worry about wiping your data.

thekev
Dec 3, 2011, 09:26 PM
Alright how do I revert back to SL .... I have 514GB of data I cannot lose .. so a fresh install of SL is out.... anybody .... my main beef is the 2 - 5 time longer to connect to network either RJ45 or Wifi.....

Thanks or if there is no way then I will know....The apple experience may have flaws but 'll never go back to a M$ OS as my main box.... Univ provides a Dell i5 with Win7 enterprise ... but just can't get excited about it.... OS X rocks and that's from an old fart.....

You must have a backup of some kind. If not you're asking for trouble. The hard drive is quite possibly the least reliable component in a computer. No matter what hard drive is used, they all die at some point. There is no way around it.

I personally don't upgrade the OS until there's a completely stable build that can run all of my apps. Upgrading before that point is just a waste of time.

sandimacd
Jan 15, 2012, 08:27 AM
Boy was I looking forward to Lion. I switched to Z Macs again in 2008 as I wanted nothing to do with Vista. SL was enticing. A few learning curves but in 3 years I have it perfected to my needs. So happy in fact I joined Apple whole heartedly with a iMac, MacMini, MBA, iPod Classic, Nano and iTouch 3 & 4 gen.*
So I waited for Lion upgrade until Dec, read earnestly, bought the Missing Manual and excited to gift it to myself for Christmas. Did an erase a format on my iMac purchased in Oct 2008. A bit bummed that I couldn't open any pages so I went back to Apple store and bought Pages. Then couldn't load PSE so again went back to purchase the Lion compatible version. Oops, now have an Apple store problem with my account. Discovered happened to others and takes a few hours for Apple to sync. Worked the next day. By then I had a whole list of software I had used that wouldn't launch in Lion.*
I slowed down buying stuff and started using the new OS.*
I gave it a fair shake- a month. I went from an excited purchaser to thinking that Lion and Vista are very similar in frustration building. Too big a jump for me.
For example, Pages. I disliked Pages save-a-version. Couldn't rename or relocate or even find where the version is saved.
I don't do well with relearning everything. Which is what I had to do every day with my new Lion system and software.*
I gave it 30 days. Two days ago I had reached my exasperation limit. The Missing Manual went back into my bookcase. My install disks came out of the closet. Snow Leopard is back on my iMac in all it's glory. I no longer drool over the new Macs. Perhaps in 2-3 years I will venture out again. But for now I am cozy, comfortable and productive once again.*

BreakGuy
Jan 15, 2012, 08:30 AM
I downgraded back to Snow Leopard. I was having unresolved battery issues with Lion and decided to downgrade until 10.7.3 (or .4) is released.

JKK photography
Jan 15, 2012, 01:47 PM
Reverted, simply because I was tired of the battery life and instability in many programs.

Waiting for an update or two, then maybe I'll go back.

prisstratton
Jan 15, 2012, 08:30 PM
Switched to Lion...no regrets, everything is working just fine (Early 2011 MBP 17") - no turning back now !

ahdfox
Jan 16, 2012, 02:37 PM
Lion is by far the worst Mac OS X ever. Terrible bugs (duplicate files in finder, beachballing TextEdit) but that I can tolerate- bugs will be hunted and fixed. Surprising this is in 10.7.2, but with time likely to be straightened out.

Autosave/Versions, however, is another story. I can see how Autosave can be helpful (no more CMD-s twitching!), but Apple's implementation of autosave is incomplete/ineffective for me, while Versions is useless for comparing complex documents. The new workflow takes away easy management of files and versions, and makes Lion the first Mac I've seen (since 7.01!) that I don't want. And I'm putting my money where my mouth is- three brand-new Lion-locked iMacs are going back to the store and three refurb SnowLeopard iMacs have just arrived. Can't wait to get back to the sanity and stability of 10.6.

Since 7.01, I handled document versions in the Finder just fine. Not always fun, but it works. Autosave/Versions doesn't begin to handle the complexity of document creation/versioning in even my small office, and Apple is forcing it on us. Similar functions changing names (so something even less clear than before...), missing keyboard shortcuts (CMD-Shift-s!), erratic behaviour (create a doc, enter text, then CMD-w. Open another doc, then enter text, then CMD-q, reopen... good old Revert doesn't do what it did before quitting, so that's a pretty crappy substitute for "Don't Save." What's more, who the hell wants to manage files in the Finder and try to do it in the Menu (with Revert) AND in some other window with Versions? Nuts. I don't want Time Machine for my document versioning (Versions), or an undo function (Revert); good Save + Save As + option to turn on AutoSave would be sufficient to allow a good, simple, and predictable workflow.

Maybe 10.7 will get fixed, but I'm beginning to doubt it- it seems like Apple made conscious choices to make the OS X workflow (documents, finder, saving etc.) better for novice users handling a small number of simple documents but painful and distracting for experienced users dealing with more complex workflows. If this is the future of the Mac, it's going to be my last one, after 17 years. I've switched from 68k to PPC to OS 8 to OS X 10.2 to Intel to 10.6.8... and enjoyed almost every step of the way. Looks like the good times are coming to an end... makes me sad, but its true.

sandimacd
Jan 17, 2012, 03:15 AM
Autosave/Versions, however, is another story...And I'm putting my money where my mouth is... three refurb SnowLeopard iMacs have just arrived. Can't wait to get back to the sanity and stability... If this is the future of the Mac, it's going to be my last one, after 17 years... Looks like the good times are coming to an end... makes me sad, but its true.

AMEN to that! My distaste for Versions will drive my future purchase decisions. I budgeted for replacements this year but after my frustrated Lion upgrade experience I chose to just reinstall SL on my 3 Macs. Perhaps Apple is conciously driving the new market towards iPads instead of computers? The next generation may never see any value in controlling file management or tinkering with their computer functions because they have not been raised in an environment where it was required.

Moving us toward an iPad and cloud sync environment may be the key to increasing profit as it eliminates the need for expensive tech support. And who knows, perhaps I will someday choose that route.

I have immensely enjoyed my 3 yrs with SL and can probably squeeze out another comfortable 3 yrs before replacing. Will decide at that point whether to return to Windows or accept the iPad paradigm shift.

tigres
Jan 17, 2012, 08:47 AM
As a business owner, I am having a hard time stomaching the forced upgrade to Lion on new hardware purchases. Although I did read somewhere on 10.7.3 Apple addressed the Finder w/MS networks/shared folders (which is completely jacked as it stands), so this will be my point of interest after reading on everyone's take.

This for me is the first time in many many years that a OS has halted my reason for purchase (solely). As I am looking forward to a new MBA (if a new refresh comes this year), I will still await the verdicts on above.

As others have mentioned, versions is completely counterintuitive for me as I need to save as in multiple network folders- so I am not looking for extra steps, wasted burned space to my SSD to protect me from myself.

Lion is still far from my radar

Gomff
Jan 17, 2012, 09:48 AM
Versions seems to be a big contributory factor for a lot of people who are having issues with Lion, and I count myself as one of those although I have problems with other aspects of the OS as well.

I'm due to upgrade my laptop this year and I'm really wondering whether it's worth bothering with another Macbook Pro if Lion is as good as it gets. Already I have to work in Windows for 3D because OpenGL and GPU options are just too far behind. I used to be able to struggle through but the lack of Rosetta support has also made key software I use incompatible so the future isn't looking good either.

I don't mind that Apple is capturing new and more casual users with gadgets and simplification of certain aspects in OS X, I just don't see why it has to be at the expense of more professional users who need the options of complexity and control.

scottsjack
Jan 17, 2012, 01:41 PM
In my case I went from Snow Leopard to Lion, back to Snow Leopard then to Lion on three machines. One of those is back to Snow Leopard. Lion offers just a couple of advantages on my MBP but isn't so great on the MP.

I thought about going to back to SL but maybe someday Apple will get it together with Lion. That of course assumes that the things I don't like about Lion are actually "problems" rather than design decisions. Honestly I just don't care all that much any more.

I'm using MS Office 2011 so I can ignore the ugly Mail, fugly Address Book and really fugly iCal. Also Word, Excel and PP work better than iWork applications, do more and use the Save As that normal humans use.

PS CS5 works much better on Windows 7 on the same machine. After four Macs I doubt if another one is in my future. My current three are just fine for TV recording/editing, Internet at Starbucks and other light duty work.

djshack
Jan 17, 2012, 02:08 PM
PS CS5 works much better on Windows 7 on the same machine. After four Macs I doubt if another one is in my future. My current three are just fine for TV recording/editing, Internet at Starbucks and other light duty work.

^ This. As does Office 2010 compared to Office 2011. My old ThinkPad ran CS5 (and Lightroom) significantly better than my 2009 MacBook Pro.

Given that I don't use any included Apple apps on Mac (no iPhoto, iCal, Mail, etc.), and that the majority of my life is spent on the web, in Lightroom, and in Office, I'm not sure my next purchase will be a Mac if Lion is an indication of where Apple is heading with OS X.

I really hope 10.7.3 fixes some major performance issues.

soulreaver99
Jan 17, 2012, 05:02 PM
Like a lot of you here, I tried Lion and went back to Snow Leopard when it first came out. Just recently, I had Lion installed in a separate partition and was hoping the experience would be a lot better with all the new updates since its release. NOPE. Here are my issues on the MacBook Pro 2011 15" i7 (was pre-installed with Lion initially and I was lucky to have a spare hard drive with a clean install of Snow).


Noteceable Slower Startup
Applications take longer to launch
WiFi was erratic
Aperature 3 takes FOREVER to process
Spinning Beach Balls in Safari
Spinning Beach Balls in Chrome
Spinning Beachballs, Spinning Beach Balls, Spinning Beach Balls!!!


I was thinking of just keeping Lion installed to play with, but why punish myself? Killed the partition and reclaimed my 100GB and am sticking with Snow for now!

r0k
Jan 17, 2012, 09:11 PM
I've been reading this thread with casual interest. I plan to stick with Lion. But I must admit I was bullied. Apple said we need Lion to get photostream and I wanted photostream. I love having my photos automagically show up on my iPad and on my Mac. It's great. I also like iCloud backup of my iThings instead of iTunes. I still insist on managing my own photos... sort of. I allow photostream to create events for each month. I then export from those events in high quality, using the folder names I would have used if I had used image transfer or an ad card to get photos onto my Mac. I then import those photos as new events, not allowing them to be copied to iPhoto Library. I know it's a bit convoluted but I control the file/folder structure of my photos and I don't rely on them being in iPhoto Library. If my iPhoto Library starts to get fat, I delete the autocreated photostream events once I'm sure I have originals in my file/folder structure.

Then there are some things that still bother me about Lion. I grow tired of all the beachballs, but I find quitting and restarting Chrome or Safari almost always chases away the beachballs. I also grow tired of that frigging "save a version" nonsense. I don't ever want to see that Time Machine animation just to roll back to a previous file. So I find myself doing "save as" workarounds. Not something that bothers me enough to roll back, though. Interestingly, Save As is still there in Xcode. As it should be.

I've been reading about how some users in the film industry are walking away from Final Cut. I think Apple is in a bit of a crisis. They want the whole world to be(come) iOS. It makes things simple for them and for some if not all of Apple's users. Then there are us old farts who prefer to manage our files ourselves. I still wonder when I'll see a file system on iPad. I mean there's really no point keeping up that lie that it's just a giant iPad. It's a computer and having to use dropbox to move files between apps is just silly.

I won't spend time ranting against someone for rolling back, I'm just not interested in rolling back myself. I continue to watch this thread with interest but I also want to take this opportunity to point out there are workarounds for some of the objections. It's possible to turn off re-opening apps and documents. It's possible to work around the annoying lack of save as. I must admit I find myself using iWork less than I used to. I tend to prefer LibreOffice which works more like "it should" for my work flow.

So my main point here is that I sympathize but I wonder if rolling back isn't a bit too severe. Try some workarounds before you pull the plug on Lion, but if you don't have the time or inclination, I'll understand. It's your Mac, not mine.

63dot
Jan 17, 2012, 09:21 PM
I am one who did really well with Tiger on the Core 2 Duo Mac minis. With Snow Leopard, I get more than a few beach balls.

But on an old Mac mini with a G4 processor, Jaguar worked really well and when I went to Tiger, I got some beach balls.

At least for Mac minis, the budget end of Apple's computers, the OS grows faster than the computer can keep up with. I have no idea how Lion would work on a two year old Mac mini. I will stay with Snow Leopard as long as I can and in a year I may need to upgrade to something that can handle Lion, without too much beachballing, and whatever else OS Apple may have by that time.

I don't suspect too many people with higher end iMacs or Mac Pros have the beach ball issue as much as the Mac mini crowd. With my PC, I didn't attempt Vista since the "waiting" or lag time is pretty bad. When Microsoft switched to Windows 7, things worked much better. For the most part, my one year old Gateway with a Core i3 runs Windows 7 without any major issues. It's the first time I have run a PC with a faster all around experience. Since I am a PC tech, the backwards way Microsoft makes their user experience for Windows does not bug me too much. But if I were to start over with a first computer and learning how to use a personal computer from scratch (child or senior citizen), I would still get any Mac with Lion, even with the comments here against it.

What is kind of funny here is that in 2012 you have Microsoft making their OS more streamlined and Apple seems to be making their OS somewhat bloated. Without Steve Jobs, and perhaps his last few years very focused on iPod, iPhone, and iPad, the once sturdy and quick OS X has become a little sloppy. With Apple's increasing fortunes and now being the 800 lb. gorilla in high tech, it was bound to happen. Just like Microsoft's huge rise in the 1980s and 1990s made them lazy and bloated, it has definitely attacked Apple's OS X Lion. I think Apple will continue to provide us with good gear and easy to use interfaces, but it won't be the golden era Apple had in their two periods with Steve Jobs.

sandimacd
Jan 18, 2012, 06:35 AM
Something a bit comforting in this thread. Nice to not be attacked for my viewpoint. When I came to Mac in 2008 it was partly because I was weary of searching and deciding between what programs I could find that would meet my needs if I went the Vista route. Also thought Macs were more creative out of the box. I was blown away, it's was so much fun to learn! Then within 3 short months I realized that to get anything done on a semi-professional level, nearly ever built-in program would need to be replaced with a mid-level Apple version. I did. Within 18 mo I went further and purchased pro-level Mac run software. So my software costs run about the same regardless of OS. I have a tech background so for me the install hassles and trouble shooting are the same for either OS, no benefit there. I tried Linux briefly in 2007 but at that time it was not yet ready to run across a wireless home network.
I don't find a benefit in Apple's Cloud directing my syncing. I can control what I want synced with my own third party solutions. They work on any OS. I am non committed at this point. I like following this discussion as well. It may well influence my type of OS purchase in 3 ys.

thestickman
Jan 18, 2012, 10:15 AM
After trying hard to stick with Lion I had to go back to SL yesterday. Use my iMac to run Logic 9 on. Keep running into plugin issues that crash Logic 9 which NEVER EVER crashed before Lion.

Since going back to 10.6.8 everything is running as it should. Not going to try Lion again for at least 2 more updates.

That said, Lion runs fine on my Macbook but I don't do DAW work on that computer so<shrug>

808?
Jan 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
Just wanting the 10.6.9 update to hurry along and give the large 10.6 user base iCloud.

jameslmoser
Jan 18, 2012, 11:46 AM
Just wanting the 10.6.9 update to hurry along and give the large 10.6 user base iCloud.

I was waiting for this too, but MobileMe and iCloud have both been flaky. I am still on MobileMe and my partner tried iCloud. Syncing has never seemed to work 100% of the time with mobileme. I decided to use third party stuff for everything, dropbox, google, etc. So far so good, and it works with more OSes and software.

Apple is trying to use iCloud to force people to use their new crappy os. I don't like being forced into things, so I will just not use it. If Mac OS X doesn't get better, when Snow Leopard is no longer really an option, I will not use OS X either. If I don't use OS X I will probably no longer use itunes as it sucks on windows and isn't available for any other OS. No iTunes, probably no more iphone and ipad.

Now I know I'm just me, but I have spent A LOT of money on apple stuff over the years, and I recommended it to all my family and friends, who in turn spend a lot of money on apple. When they need new computers, phones, tablets, they will ask me again what I recommend.

fat jez
Jan 18, 2012, 12:01 PM
Autosave/Versions, however, is another story. I can see how Autosave can be helpful (no more CMD-s twitching!), but Apple's implementation of autosave is incomplete/ineffective for me, while Versions is useless for comparing complex documents. The new workflow takes away easy management of files and versions, and makes Lion the first Mac I've seen (since 7.01!) that I don't want. And I'm putting my money where my mouth is- three brand-new Lion-locked iMacs are going back to the store and three refurb SnowLeopard iMacs have just arrived. Can't wait to get back to the sanity and stability of 10.6.


At least as far as Textedit and Preview are concerned, I have found a way round autosave and versions - I followed a guide to use the Snow Leopard versions of those apps.

http://www.formaceyesonly.com/2011/11/25/how-to-downgrade-lions-preview-and-textedit-to-snow-leopard-versions/

macrem
Jan 18, 2012, 02:08 PM
Pro power user here :D I'm still scratching my head when I see the iCal/AB cartoonish themes & am experiencing a few bugs with Mail related to Exchange 2010 support (my work is using) which I hope soon-to-be-released 10.7.3 will fix, but with Lion I DO HAVE that support. Aside from iCal/AB themes, the UI is more polished and consistent. All other apps are stable. I'm down with Mission Control. My MBP & iMac are both fast on Lion. Auto save w/ versions is smart. Gestures are awesome. I can't imagine not having forward/back gestures in Safari now. Gestures are more consistent. Pushing pages in the same direction they move is logical. I am using more gestures a lot more with Lion than SL. Dev tools & working with UNIX servers from my Mac is great on Lion. The Silver Aerogel in Terminal made me kick a +ten year habit of black/yellow text. Now when I see aqua scrollbars, it looks like outdated wasted real estate to me. Eye candy is slick. My workflows flow smoothy with Lion. There were some changes to get used to, but that happened very fast due to increased consistency and intuitive changes. SL was a nice under the hood upgrade, and Lion seems like a logical next step by Apple to improve the UI and bring some features that feel natural & more consistent with wildly successful iOS.

linuxcooldude
Jan 18, 2012, 02:23 PM
He's my take on Lion. I installed on 4 different Macs, Mac Pro, Mac Mini, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air. Install went well. Boot times were shortened to 30 seconds or less. I find "Spaces" more useable, before I never used them.

Don't find any of my Macs necessarily use anymore memory or is slower then Snow Leopard.

One of my most favorite features is the iCloud. I have to schedule guests for my internet show on iCal. Now I just have to do it once and all my devices ( Have iPad & iPhone too ) have it imported into iCal. So depending on what device I have with me, I will always be up to date no matter where I am at.

Same with reminders. I tend to forget things so do it once and all my devices are updated with the information.

So I'll be sticking with Lion.

fat jez
Jan 18, 2012, 02:25 PM
I have to schedule guests for my internet show on iCal. Now I just have to do it once and all my devices ( Have iPad & iPhone too ) have it imported into iCal. So depending on what device I have with me, I will always be up to date no matter where I am at.

In fairness, I do this with google calendar. The only thing I use iCloud for is contacts, but only because Google can't cope with relationships like mother, father, brother, etc

linuxcooldude
Jan 18, 2012, 02:32 PM
In fairness, I do this with google calendar. The only thing I use iCloud for is contacts, but only because Google can't cope with relationships like mother, father, brother, etc

Not sure if google calendar is a web app, but In some places I don't always have internet access.

fat jez
Jan 18, 2012, 02:40 PM
Not sure if google calendar is a web app, but In some places I don't always have internet access.

It's an ical link I use on my MacBook, iPhone and iPad and the calendar apps. A change to the calendar on one device is mirrored across them all. But then I was doing this before Lion on my Apple kit

Lesser Evets
Jan 18, 2012, 07:16 PM
Back to SL.

Lion is, like ALL Mac OSX upgrades since 10.3, a mess. It's going to be useable around summer, maybe early fall. At the moment, it hangs in some of the basic programs and has bugtastic WiFi on my system.

If you need stability, NEVER upgrade your OSX for at least 6-9 months after initial launch. They all get good after that time frame and when the next launches, the current is great. Anyone saying otherwise either has limited uses for their Macs or is lying. I'm an Apple user since 1981--seen it all.

Dweez
Jan 18, 2012, 07:22 PM
I reverted to SL twice, due to Safari/Juniper VPN issues. I'm currently running Lion and all seems well with the universe. Peers had zero issues once they went with Lion, which made me wonder if I had hardware issues. I did nothing different during the last upgrade, but it's "just working" now.

jameslmoser
Jan 18, 2012, 07:26 PM
Back to SL.

Lion is, like ALL Mac OSX upgrades since 10.3, a mess. It's going to be useable around summer, maybe early fall. At the moment, it hangs in some of the basic programs and has bugtastic WiFi on my system.

If you need stability, NEVER upgrade your OSX for at least 6-9 months after initial launch. They all get good after that time frame and when the next launches, the current is great. Anyone saying otherwise either has limited uses for their Macs or is lying. I'm an Apple user since 1981--seen it all.

Lion's problems are beyond normal bugs... for me its mainly ridiculous feature implementation.

tigres
Feb 1, 2012, 03:58 PM
Anyone running the new update (when the time arrives for playing on it for you all)

- Resolve issues authenticating with directory services
- Address compatibility issues with Windows file sharing

Let me know how these go, appreciate it much.:)

ahdfox
Feb 1, 2012, 09:48 PM
One (to me major) improvement with 10.7.3: CMD-shift-S for Duplicate. Check it out- keyboard shortcuts are back in style. Now if only CMD-d for "Don't Save" was also enabled...

Also, it seems like TextEdit launch problems are gone. I was getting 25 second beachballing upon opening the app (multiple fresh installs on SSD, notebook HD, iMac).

iCal + AddressBook are still IMHO ugly, Versions and Autosave is as useless (to me) as ever, and the Duplicate workflow is longer and clumsier than before, but a tiny bit better thanks to a proper Duplicate keyboard shortcut.

To me, 10.7.3 is a tiny step forward from 10.7.2, but a TextEdit app that doesn't beachball on open is not exactly an update feature to be proud of at this stage of the game, six months after release.

Still on my wishlist:
-Autosave optional by app
-Versions optional by app
-keyboard shortcut for "Don't Save" in the dialog box
-optional less ugly ical/addressbook skins.

I'm not touching Lion on any computer I actually use for work until 10.7.4, and even then only if there's an Autosave on/off switch. Failing that, it's time to start looking seriously at non OS X installs for the next machines we add (and I get for myself). The good news: Avoiding Lion has already saved me over $1000 by forcing me to stick with my older MacBook Air instead of getting a new one for the better sound, better battery and extra snappiness.

Nuts that I want to buy a new Mac and for the sake of trying to force a few features I don't want/need Apple has given me good reasons not to.

----------

Lion's problems are beyond normal bugs... for me its mainly ridiculous feature implementation.

Yeah, many of the Lion concepts seem pretty good but it's like the Detroit concept cars that show "Tomorrow's Family Car" with ultra-tinted slit windows and running on rubber bands. Looks good to the designer but not at all what you need to get to the grocery store or for a trip on the highway to the office.

tkermit
Feb 2, 2012, 02:37 AM
-keyboard shortcut for "Don't Save" in the dialog box

CMD+Backspace works.

sandimacd
Feb 2, 2012, 05:01 AM
Not sure if google calendar is a web app, but In some places I don't always have internet access.
My husband and I set up a shared Google account just for calendar and shared contacts. We both own iTouches and mostly offline except at home or hotel when traveling. For 3 years now Google sync has been a lifesaver. We can add a medical apt, doctor or family contact or travel reservation to any of our itouch or Mac or PC calendar and keep it in perfect sync. It may not be an app but it works so much better than any app or service or setting or software we have tried. No worry about being on or offline. As soon as we get back home it syncs everything automatically.

sandimacd
Feb 2, 2012, 05:15 AM
The good news: Avoiding Lion has already saved me over $1000 by forcing me to stick with my older MacBook Air instead of getting a new one for the better sound, better battery and extra snappiness.

Nuts that I want to buy a new Mac and for the sake of trying to force a few features I don't want/need Apple has given me good reasons not to.

Me Too! My 2009 MBA keyboard backlight died and I planned to replace for Christmas 2011. After trying out Lion on my iMac I decided to keep my MBA as long as possible. Will see what happens with Mac over the next 3-4 years. I've sworn off software purchases unless critical until then which is saving me even more hundreds of $$$.

I may take it in for repair or perhaps unscrew and blow out dust or reinstall OS. Can't hurt.

natejohnstone@g
Feb 2, 2012, 05:41 AM
I wanted to downgrade to Snow Leopard, but can't find my SL discs. So I downgraded to Leopard. And Yes, I'd rather run Leopard than Lion.

We'll see how this new update turns out. The fact that it's taken them this long to deal with all these bugs is recockulous in the first place, but let's hope they are at least addressed.

I'd like my battery life back, my audio to output properly, and for programs like iPhoto to not pinwheel for minutes with every little edit. If it seems like the update fixes major issues without causing others (like the "no Airport" I keep hearing about), then I'll reinstall.

But the luster is off Apple forever in my eyes. Lion will be a black eye on the computer division for a decade. I understand the company cares more about mobile devices than computers, but at least don't destroy what you've built!

ahdfox
Feb 2, 2012, 07:09 AM
CMD+Backspace works.

Thanks! I had no idea. A decade or more of CMD-d for "Don't" is going to be hard to let go of. CMD+Backspace (and so does CMD-Delete) works takes two hands and will need some relearning, but it's better than being forced to switch to the mouse for such a common/simple function.

However, I can't see why CMD-d for "Don't" has been removed. Novices won't know it's there so it won't hurt them, and I'm sure thousands of users have been frustrated by this change/omission.

klaxamazoo
Feb 2, 2012, 12:52 PM
Thanks! I had no idea. A decade or more of CMD-d for "Don't" is going to be hard to let go of. CMD+Backspace (and so does CMD-Delete) works takes two hands and will need some relearning, but it's better than being forced to switch to the mouse for such a common/simple function.

However, I can't see why CMD-d for "Don't" has been removed. Novices won't know it's there so it won't hurt them, and I'm sure thousands of users have been frustrated by this change/omission.

I don't see anything happen with CMD-Delete. It still saves the changes.

GermanyChris
Feb 2, 2012, 03:46 PM
I'm back on Snow Leopard again for the 3rd time I think..looks like 10.7.3 is not successful.

tigres
Feb 14, 2012, 07:15 AM
Anyone running the new update (when the time arrives for playing on it for you all)

- Resolve issues authenticating with directory services
- Address compatibility issues with Windows file sharing

Let me know how these go, appreciate it much.:)

Hate to quote my own post- but are there any users with this experience?

I see a new machine on the horizon; and want to be locked and loaded if Lion is a forced OS. From what I am reading around; it's still has some major weak points which are deal killers for a lot of folks.

Thx.

Michaelgtrusa
Feb 14, 2012, 08:10 AM
Hate to quote my own post- but are there any users with this experience?

I see a new machine on the horizon; and want to be locked and loaded if Lion is a forced OS. From what I am reading around; it's still has some major weak points which are deal killers for a lot of folks.

Thx.

Yea many have returned their Lion locked iMacs.

Aidoneus
Feb 14, 2012, 10:05 AM
Lion is a far superior operating system to Snow Leopard. People complaining about Autosave and Versions evidently don't understand the power it provides.

Partron22
Feb 14, 2012, 10:15 AM
evidently don't understand the power it provides.Else they understand that one size fits all solutions aren't the best in every imaginable situation, and prefer the option of implementing procedures which fit their own workflow.

Aidoneus
Feb 14, 2012, 10:16 AM
The new method is far superior for the vast majority of users, and if that isn't you, then you haven't lost any functionality you had previously.

Partron22
Feb 14, 2012, 10:53 AM
then you haven't lost any functionality you had previously.You sound like Rumsfeld on the Iraqi WMD's that never were: "We know where they are. (http://politicalhumor.about.com/cs/quotethis/a/rumsfeldquotes.htm) They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." –on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction
Your saying so repeatedly simply doesn't make something true.
That's the way reality works.

Do you have evidence for your claim of "far superior for the vast majority of users"? I haven't seen anything convincing. "Really screws over a large minority of users" is likely an equally apt description.

klaxamazoo
Feb 14, 2012, 01:31 PM
The new method is far superior for the vast majority of users, and if that isn't you, then you haven't lost any functionality you had previously.


Please explain why:

1) not being able to easily move a Window from one Space to the next is better
- i.e. the stacked Windows forces you to use App Expose, which takes you out of Mission Control and thus, you cannot move the window to a new space without having your view swing back and forth.

2) why not being able to see everything that is going on in your system at once and brought together onto one display is better.

3) why having to select an App to find a Window hidden behind a stack of Windows is better

4) Versions does a poor job of NOT saving documents and now you have to go through a lot more steps: involving menu item selections, then an animation, then a computer thinking and collection versions, then being presented with a timeline of changes, then trying to find the correct version that doesn't have the changes you don't want, and then going through another animation.
- All that just to not save a document.
- Why exactly is that better than Apple having implemented a simple "Don't Save" menu and keyboard command?

5) Why is having files automatically overwritten if they are on a non-HFS drive is better?

6) Why is files suffer data corruption from the poor implementation of Versions is better?

7) Please explain why grey icons are ALWAYS better for everyone, even those that remember things by color? Why is this better than putting in an option in the Preference Pane?

8) Why should I have to unselect "Reopen Windows..." every time I restart my computer? Why is this better than Apple implementing a simple "remember always" option?



If MC and Versions is so much better, why don't you take the time to actually detail why it is better? Instead of just putting out blanket statements while disregarding the detailed explanation by others regarding their dislike of Lion.

Krazy Bill
Feb 14, 2012, 04:31 PM
If MC and Versions is so much better, why don't you take the time to actually detail why it is better? Instead of just putting out blanket statements while disregarding the detailed explanation by others regarding their dislike of Lion.

Yep. I too am waiting to be "enlightened" by the Lion following that claim all is well and improved with MC and Versions. Specifically... those that came from Snow Leopard.

Seriously. I have an open mind on this. Well, maybe not on MC because nobody will ever convince me that "less is better" in comparison to Spaces/Expose.

daneoni
Feb 14, 2012, 06:00 PM
My supposed fix drew a blank in the end. I think i'm reaching my tolerance limit with Lion.

I could run my mac for over 30 days without so much as a flinch yet with Lion i find myself restarting every other day to clear out one issue or another. Ridonkulous.

sandimacd
Feb 15, 2012, 05:11 AM
...If MC and Versions is so much better, why don't you take the time to actually detail why it is better? Instead of just putting out blanket statements while disregarding the detailed explanation by others regarding their dislike of Lion.

Thank you for a very well laid out response that echoes my experience. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Aidoneius' post presents the opinion that Lion's method is far superior but the post lacks examples, facts or details to support that claim.

Lion has not earned my respect and in my opinion SL, for my purposes, is to me, a superior product. Why else would I pay for Lion, install it, invest in Lion compatible software, spend weeks learning it and then return to SL?

When I upgraded from Leopard to SL I never regretted the time money it took, instead I upgraded my other 2 Macs.
I did not experience anything in Lion that encouraged me to stay with it. I had to force myself to stay with it. Finally I woke up one day and said, why am I so miserable. I bought my Macs to ENJOY them.

When I downgraded to SL, I actually felt compelled to sit down and work again. I was smiling. I was productive. I was once again in my own little Mac-Heaven.*

fivenotrump
Feb 15, 2012, 06:33 AM
Lion has been rock solid for me on both my iMac and MacBook Pro and I have never considered reverting to SL. My top features are FileVault 2, multi-touch gestures (especially 'lookup'), AirDrop (would really miss this). I love the easy access to accented characters, have never used Mission Control, mixed feelings about locked files.