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Photoshop Elements vs others?
- Thread starter Scuba629
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Depends how much money you want to spend. Aperture 3 has a lot of photo organization as well, but I'd take Lightroom 3 over Aperture 3. PSE should be fine if you aren't doing too much.
Well not to much on anything also I don't see Lightroom on the App store. If you had to pick which is the best combo?
Lightroom and Aperture?
Lightroom and Aperture are competitors and relatively similar. If you're not doing much just get PSE.
EDIT: Just realized Aperture 3 is only $80. At that rate I'm not sure which one would be best between PSE and Aperture.
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Lightroom and aperture are library and raw dv tools. Pse in the app store is editor only and meant to work with iPhoto.
Lightroom and aperture have very little overlap with photoshop elements in te app store. Slightly more overlap with the full version.
Lightroom and aperture compete for the same market space. You wouldn't buy both. Lightroom is vastly superior IMO, but most here who aren't photographers an love apple wouldn't agree with that.
Lightroom and photoshop or aperture and photoshop would compliment each other. The elwnts version in the app store is a less feature rich version of photoshop but is not the same thing as the full version of elements.
Fwiw
What are your goals. Do you shoot raw? Do you like managing in iPhoto? What kind of editing. Mild retouching or more creation?
Need more info.
Lightroom and aperture have very little overlap with photoshop elements in te app store. Slightly more overlap with the full version.
Lightroom and aperture compete for the same market space. You wouldn't buy both. Lightroom is vastly superior IMO, but most here who aren't photographers an love apple wouldn't agree with that.
Lightroom and photoshop or aperture and photoshop would compliment each other. The elwnts version in the app store is a less feature rich version of photoshop but is not the same thing as the full version of elements.
Fwiw
What are your goals. Do you shoot raw? Do you like managing in iPhoto? What kind of editing. Mild retouching or more creation?
Need more info.
Right now I don't have a really really good camera. Im in the market to buy either a nice cannon or nikon.. So I might be doing some raw editing.
Most other stuff would be tweaking... Making pics look better and adding/removing things from certain pictures. Anything to make them look better.
I wouldn't say I would be doing a lot of creation. But at the same time I don't want to have two or more products that can do the same thing.
If I wanted to pick up a more creation type package I would hope it easy.
edit: I'm new to it so easy of use is important.
Get lightroom now, and then when you need to expand (for cloning and things like that) get photoshop or pse/
That's my opinion. If you are just getting started, you have a TON of stuff to learn about using the camera, rules of photography, lighting, off camera lighting, raw development, proper exposure, etc.. before you even think about getting started with hardcore retouching.
You can easily remove blemishes, add some gradients, soften skin, etc in lightroom, there are many 'traditionalists' who never leave it before outputting a final product.
Aperture can do a lot of this stuff too - however I think you will find lightroom is more of the standard.. and there are plugins made for photoshop AND lightroom - for the same purchase price - and there are more plugins.
That's my $.02
![5596177643_3d98622a22_b.jpg]()
There would be two things in this shot that would make photoshop a necessity..well one for sure, the other can be done in lightroom but is easier in photoshop.
Output sharpening scripts work well in ps... and CA (the purple fringing around the boxes) is easier to remove imo in ps
The only thing PS was used for in the next one was sharpening. Lightroom can sharpen, but not as well. All of this is moot until you start learning a raw workflow..
![5389006063_9206cd1680_b.jpg]()
Now, you can do all the development in Photoshop, and use iPhoto or bridge to manage.. or just keep folders.. but for me - batch editing in lightroom is so easy. When you have to correct white balance in 200 photos, it's a lot easier, imo.
Anyway, I hope that helps.
That's my opinion. If you are just getting started, you have a TON of stuff to learn about using the camera, rules of photography, lighting, off camera lighting, raw development, proper exposure, etc.. before you even think about getting started with hardcore retouching.
You can easily remove blemishes, add some gradients, soften skin, etc in lightroom, there are many 'traditionalists' who never leave it before outputting a final product.
Aperture can do a lot of this stuff too - however I think you will find lightroom is more of the standard.. and there are plugins made for photoshop AND lightroom - for the same purchase price - and there are more plugins.
That's my $.02
There would be two things in this shot that would make photoshop a necessity..well one for sure, the other can be done in lightroom but is easier in photoshop.
Output sharpening scripts work well in ps... and CA (the purple fringing around the boxes) is easier to remove imo in ps
The only thing PS was used for in the next one was sharpening. Lightroom can sharpen, but not as well. All of this is moot until you start learning a raw workflow..
Now, you can do all the development in Photoshop, and use iPhoto or bridge to manage.. or just keep folders.. but for me - batch editing in lightroom is so easy. When you have to correct white balance in 200 photos, it's a lot easier, imo.
Anyway, I hope that helps.
You will have to put a fair amount of energy into both products to use them to their capabilities...
Easy is relative - how much you want to get into photography will dictate how much you want to learn. Both can have a steep learning curve.
Is microsoft excel easy to use? I guess I could make a spreadsheet, but I'm not cracking out relational tables that tie into powerpoiint without reading the manual and probably more.. like forums, etc.
My concern for you is... what can't you do in iPhoto that you want to right now. How much do you know about photography (cameras, not software) - because you may find you want to use iPhoto and learn more about the basics - then decide. It takes time to get good - I'm obviously still learning every day.
Maybe hold off on buying anything until you get the camera you want - or can identify deficiencies in iPhoto.
Easy is relative - how much you want to get into photography will dictate how much you want to learn. Both can have a steep learning curve.
Is microsoft excel easy to use? I guess I could make a spreadsheet, but I'm not cracking out relational tables that tie into powerpoiint without reading the manual and probably more.. like forums, etc.
My concern for you is... what can't you do in iPhoto that you want to right now. How much do you know about photography (cameras, not software) - because you may find you want to use iPhoto and learn more about the basics - then decide. It takes time to get good - I'm obviously still learning every day.
Maybe hold off on buying anything until you get the camera you want - or can identify deficiencies in iPhoto.
I've already bought Aperture but found this really interesting video about workflow with Photo Mechanic and Lightroom:
http://blip.tv/critique-technique-f...to-lightroom-to-photoshop-to-delivery-3241423
http://blip.tv/critique-technique-f...to-lightroom-to-photoshop-to-delivery-3241423
Can you recommend a nice camera? Was thinking Cannon 5D but its a tad expensive. So maybe Nikon D3100?
Have you at all checked some recent Sony cameras? The Alpha 55 (and also 33 and the new 35) use a translucent mirror technology which is quite revolutionary. The result: highly compact cameras that offer great performance at a relatively low price. You can also check the Sony NEX series. These are great little cameras. So...it really depends on what you'd like to do with your photography (and how much gear you would like to carry). Those bags can get heavy in a hurry....
There are endless discussions about what's better: Aperture or Lightroom. They're both great programs. I have both and from my perspective Lightroom offers great features; it could be argued though that Aperture may be a bit more simple to use. They both have their pros and cons. If you don't plan on doing any pro photography and you are not yet familiar with Photoshop, you may want to consider some other simpler and much less expensive options. For example, check out the Mac App Store for Pixelmator, Flare, etc. These are great packages that offer a nice set of options and will take you at least to an advanced amateur level at a very low cost.
Just some things to consider.
There are endless discussions about what's better: Aperture or Lightroom. They're both great programs. I have both and from my perspective Lightroom offers great features; it could be argued though that Aperture may be a bit more simple to use. They both have their pros and cons. If you don't plan on doing any pro photography and you are not yet familiar with Photoshop, you may want to consider some other simpler and much less expensive options. For example, check out the Mac App Store for Pixelmator, Flare, etc. These are great packages that offer a nice set of options and will take you at least to an advanced amateur level at a very low cost.
Just some things to consider.
Any new dslr is going to be capable. Spend less on the body and more on lenses.
The mailbox shot was a 5dmark2 and the sedona shot was a 7d
The lenses were 35L on the 5d2 and 15-85 on the 7d. What kind of photos do you plan on making? Landscape, wildlife, portrait/kids?
The 5d2 is a lot of money for a camera that will soon be replaced. The 7d is probably due for replacement in the not too distant future.. but honestly, at this point I would buy the 60d over it. there are very very few people that really 'need' a 7d. It's an expensive crop camera - and frankly you can buy a lens with the difference, and probably never notice the few missing features. Also - the 60d has an articulating screen.. at which some scoff - but is immensely helpful when shooting video - or, if you are tall like me, or want to shoot low angle.
Kit lenses basically stink - so If you can get a 60d and a nice prime, you will be in better hands... and unless you are a sports or wildlife photographer, the 7d is overkill. The 60d has the SAME sensor, nearly the same capabilities. It can't micro adjust (which you probably shouldn't muck about with when new) and it doesn't shoot as fast.. but you have to understand, that speed difference is only applicable to pro level sports shooters, or birders...if you want to capture your children.. a rebel is fast enough.
The rebel t3i is another great camera - again with the same (some say better) sensor than the 7d. All of canon's crop cameras in the current gen share the same sensor, you are paying for features and ergonomics after that. For just getting started, the reason I said 60d is - it has a wireless flash trigger - and slightly more rugged... for a very very little amount more.
I personally think a great starter kit would be the 60d, sigma 30 prime, and 15-85... but I really need to know more about what you want to shoot.
Do always remember, spend as little as you can on bodies - buy lenses.. that's where the magic happens (as far as gear - obviously the magic is in the tool behind the camera).
BTW - your analogy of 3100 to 5d2 there are a LOT of cameras in there.. and on the nikon side, the d7000 is a split between the 60d and 7d on the canon side. I would look very heavily at that camera right now.. the dynamic range is amazing. The 7d wouldn't be in the middle of that run for feature set, probably the d5000, d7000, 60d would be the cameras that split the difference..
That said - there is no replacement for a large sensor.. and moving to a 5d2 means you get full frame - which also means that functionally you have to spend thousands more on lenses.
The mailbox shot was a 5dmark2 and the sedona shot was a 7d
The lenses were 35L on the 5d2 and 15-85 on the 7d. What kind of photos do you plan on making? Landscape, wildlife, portrait/kids?
The 5d2 is a lot of money for a camera that will soon be replaced. The 7d is probably due for replacement in the not too distant future.. but honestly, at this point I would buy the 60d over it. there are very very few people that really 'need' a 7d. It's an expensive crop camera - and frankly you can buy a lens with the difference, and probably never notice the few missing features. Also - the 60d has an articulating screen.. at which some scoff - but is immensely helpful when shooting video - or, if you are tall like me, or want to shoot low angle.
Kit lenses basically stink - so If you can get a 60d and a nice prime, you will be in better hands... and unless you are a sports or wildlife photographer, the 7d is overkill. The 60d has the SAME sensor, nearly the same capabilities. It can't micro adjust (which you probably shouldn't muck about with when new) and it doesn't shoot as fast.. but you have to understand, that speed difference is only applicable to pro level sports shooters, or birders...if you want to capture your children.. a rebel is fast enough.
The rebel t3i is another great camera - again with the same (some say better) sensor than the 7d. All of canon's crop cameras in the current gen share the same sensor, you are paying for features and ergonomics after that. For just getting started, the reason I said 60d is - it has a wireless flash trigger - and slightly more rugged... for a very very little amount more.
I personally think a great starter kit would be the 60d, sigma 30 prime, and 15-85... but I really need to know more about what you want to shoot.
Do always remember, spend as little as you can on bodies - buy lenses.. that's where the magic happens (as far as gear - obviously the magic is in the tool behind the camera).
BTW - your analogy of 3100 to 5d2 there are a LOT of cameras in there.. and on the nikon side, the d7000 is a split between the 60d and 7d on the canon side. I would look very heavily at that camera right now.. the dynamic range is amazing. The 7d wouldn't be in the middle of that run for feature set, probably the d5000, d7000, 60d would be the cameras that split the difference..
That said - there is no replacement for a large sensor.. and moving to a 5d2 means you get full frame - which also means that functionally you have to spend thousands more on lenses.
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A 5D, 7D and maybe even a 60D will be too complicated for you to use. Get a Rebel or D3100 or a M4/3 camera first to try out, then upgrade. The 7D's focusing system takes a while to figure out.
I have to agree with this - A t3i, d3100, or even an epl2 would be a great starting camera.
Buying a 7d and using it in single shot, single af, is a waste of money.
I agree, I am using an x100 now as a daily camera - I love it. Sure it's not going to do wildlife or portraits.. but it works pretty well! I also have a gf1, but - that sees very little use now, think it's going up for sale.
I' m not a total beginner when it comes to taking photos as at one point in my life I did have a D3000. I was dating this girl.... Anyways that is why I bring up the D3100 as I know how to use a Nikon.
A friend of mine told me I should instead invest in Canon as that's who he trusts. Now he does have the 7D himself and I plan on going to check it out today.(beers after work lol)
I plan to really use this next camera purchase for various types of shots. Nothing I would be charging for but certainly things I want to be crisp and looking great. In the short term we are going to Alaska(Cruise) and I want to take some nice shots from our balcony(huge zoom). It will also be with our family so im sure their will be some closeup/group photos too. Thats the main purpose of this purchase however I am kinda nerdy when it comes to certain things. I liked to play with taking pics of nature and other random items to see how I can tweak the exposure with leaving the lens open or even just doing a simple black and white. Couple that together with programs like lightroom and photoshop and you have my new hobby. ;-) My friend did also mention I could help him take wedding/event pics from time to time too..
I'd say my budget is about 4k for everything here which might not seem like much. lol I also don't want something that will be out of date in a couple of months either so now you got me thinking the 5D might be a bad choice as it should be refreshed soon..
BTW h00ligan your pics look great! I'd hope to be able to do the same thing one day!
If you still think the 60D is my best bet with some great lens thats what ill get but I would like to stay ahead of the MP curve too. Most of the time my eyes are not focused on what I need and instead on all the cool features.
Thanks again all.
A friend of mine told me I should instead invest in Canon as that's who he trusts. Now he does have the 7D himself and I plan on going to check it out today.(beers after work lol)
I plan to really use this next camera purchase for various types of shots. Nothing I would be charging for but certainly things I want to be crisp and looking great. In the short term we are going to Alaska(Cruise) and I want to take some nice shots from our balcony(huge zoom). It will also be with our family so im sure their will be some closeup/group photos too. Thats the main purpose of this purchase however I am kinda nerdy when it comes to certain things. I liked to play with taking pics of nature and other random items to see how I can tweak the exposure with leaving the lens open or even just doing a simple black and white. Couple that together with programs like lightroom and photoshop and you have my new hobby. ;-) My friend did also mention I could help him take wedding/event pics from time to time too..
I'd say my budget is about 4k for everything here which might not seem like much. lol I also don't want something that will be out of date in a couple of months either so now you got me thinking the 5D might be a bad choice as it should be refreshed soon..
BTW h00ligan your pics look great! I'd hope to be able to do the same thing one day!
If you still think the 60D is my best bet with some great lens thats what ill get but I would like to stay ahead of the MP curve too. Most of the time my eyes are not focused on what I need and instead on all the cool features.
Thanks again all.
I would think that Aperture is better than Elements. Since your only going to purchase from App Store, I would purchase Aperture. However I think Lightroom is more mainstream among photographers. That and photoshop.
Lightroom seems to be the most chosen among most. I guess im looking for something that will complement it well.
Try selling the gift card to help pay for Lightroom. Might as well start off with the right software to begin with.
Thanks
Based on what you state - and assuming you want to stick with canon, I don't think the 7d is the right way to go. I stand by the Canon 60D recommendation.
Have a look at the first page chart - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos60D/
You won't need dual digic 4 processors if you aren't shooting real sports (not kids) or wildlife, nor the 19 af points - which as stated can have a steep learning curve dealing with expansion and tracking. The difference of 4% in pentaprism coverage is also a moot point imo. If you are shooting landscape, you are doing it from the screen on the rear, from a tripod, with the build in level. The screen is 100% view. 8.3 fps vs 5 fps? Hardly tangible for most - and a good fast card could make the difference anyway.
You will heavily benefit from configurable auto iso. You will benefit from the articulating screen.
Again, it's also in the super sweet spot for pricing. It's barely more than the t3i, but substantially less than the 7d. The difference between the 7d and 60d in price will get you either the sigma 30 prime, for low light and more limited depth of field - or will get you 2/3 of the way to a good zoom.
I think, as with computers, a lot of people want the best in photo gear. The 7d is is the crop flagship for canon - it's the best... but the few features it has over the 60d are not something most would use, outside pro sports or wildlife photographers.
My preference from canon is based on shooting prime lenses. If I was more of a zoom guy, I'd probably buy nikon, though their lens prices tend to be a bit higher.
The 60d will carry you for MANY years without the need for an upgrade, unless you chase better gear. It's a camera that you could really grow into...or it can be more simple. Since you state you know the basics of exposure - I'd say have at it.. and factor in the price of the magic lantern guide for another $12 or so!
Aperture and photoshop elements are completely different programs. They have mild overlap, but that's it. Lightroom and photoshop elements from the app store would be a great combo.
There are sales on lightroom regularly - it was just $150 on new egg.. and now can be had for $179 at other places.
As for MP - you have way more than enough with any of the current cams, even the 12mp ones.. unless you plan on printing billboards.
4 Grand is a GREAT budget. I could come up with a whole list I'd do with 4 grand.
I'd start with 60d (body only) $900
sigma 30 - great all around low light general view (nearly 50mm equiv) ~$550
canon 85 1.8 - get your portrait on $380
canon 15-85 - walk around lens $800?
That's only $2500 or so.. and you would be pretty well set unless you wanted something really wide for landscapes - at which point you could spend a bit more.
Sigma makes some decent lenses these days - you just have to figure out which ones they are, the 30 is great, and I also like the 17-50 as a walk around.. but recommend the canon for more range.
If you want glass to 'invest in' well - we can spend a lot more..
60d - body
canon 17-55 - I still feel the sigma is as good and half the price - also if you live in a dusty environment, this lens is prone to sucking it in.
35L (should be replaced soon, I'd wait for the next version)- expensive but WOW.
85/1.8
That's about 4 grand
Obviously everybody has different ideas about kit.. and it depends on what you want to shoot. I personally think starting with the kit I outlined first would be a 'smarter' choice... except the 35L and 17-55 can be resold for just about what they sell for new.. they don't depreciate more than 15% if kept in good condition.
Based on what you state - and assuming you want to stick with canon, I don't think the 7d is the right way to go. I stand by the Canon 60D recommendation.
Have a look at the first page chart - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos60D/
You won't need dual digic 4 processors if you aren't shooting real sports (not kids) or wildlife, nor the 19 af points - which as stated can have a steep learning curve dealing with expansion and tracking. The difference of 4% in pentaprism coverage is also a moot point imo. If you are shooting landscape, you are doing it from the screen on the rear, from a tripod, with the build in level. The screen is 100% view. 8.3 fps vs 5 fps? Hardly tangible for most - and a good fast card could make the difference anyway.
You will heavily benefit from configurable auto iso. You will benefit from the articulating screen.
Again, it's also in the super sweet spot for pricing. It's barely more than the t3i, but substantially less than the 7d. The difference between the 7d and 60d in price will get you either the sigma 30 prime, for low light and more limited depth of field - or will get you 2/3 of the way to a good zoom.
I think, as with computers, a lot of people want the best in photo gear. The 7d is is the crop flagship for canon - it's the best... but the few features it has over the 60d are not something most would use, outside pro sports or wildlife photographers.
My preference from canon is based on shooting prime lenses. If I was more of a zoom guy, I'd probably buy nikon, though their lens prices tend to be a bit higher.
The 60d will carry you for MANY years without the need for an upgrade, unless you chase better gear. It's a camera that you could really grow into...or it can be more simple. Since you state you know the basics of exposure - I'd say have at it.. and factor in the price of the magic lantern guide for another $12 or so!
Aperture and photoshop elements are completely different programs. They have mild overlap, but that's it. Lightroom and photoshop elements from the app store would be a great combo.
There are sales on lightroom regularly - it was just $150 on new egg.. and now can be had for $179 at other places.
As for MP - you have way more than enough with any of the current cams, even the 12mp ones.. unless you plan on printing billboards.
4 Grand is a GREAT budget. I could come up with a whole list I'd do with 4 grand.
I'd start with 60d (body only) $900
sigma 30 - great all around low light general view (nearly 50mm equiv) ~$550
canon 85 1.8 - get your portrait on $380
canon 15-85 - walk around lens $800?
That's only $2500 or so.. and you would be pretty well set unless you wanted something really wide for landscapes - at which point you could spend a bit more.
Sigma makes some decent lenses these days - you just have to figure out which ones they are, the 30 is great, and I also like the 17-50 as a walk around.. but recommend the canon for more range.
If you want glass to 'invest in' well - we can spend a lot more..
60d - body
canon 17-55 - I still feel the sigma is as good and half the price - also if you live in a dusty environment, this lens is prone to sucking it in.
35L (should be replaced soon, I'd wait for the next version)- expensive but WOW.
85/1.8
That's about 4 grand
Obviously everybody has different ideas about kit.. and it depends on what you want to shoot. I personally think starting with the kit I outlined first would be a 'smarter' choice... except the 35L and 17-55 can be resold for just about what they sell for new.. they don't depreciate more than 15% if kept in good condition.
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I just went through the same decision process. As other have noted, if you want file organization along with photo editing, Aperture is nice. I went with PSE, though, because I use iPhoto for my file organizing and I've used Photoshop in one form or another for years, so am very comfortable using it.
Oh and don't buy cheap filters.. and buy once. Figure out the largest thread size and buy step adaptors.. a good Circular polarizer for example is 100-120$.. buy big and adapt down. But factor at least that one type of filter in (since outdoor shots in mid day stink!)