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MacRumors
Aug 2, 2011, 10:56 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/02/u-s-regulators-agree-to-investigate-apples-patent-claims-against-samsung/)


The U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) today announced (http://usitc.gov/press_room/news_release/2011/er0802jj1.htm) that it has agreed to investigate claims of patent infringement made by Apple against Samsung.The U.S. International Trade Commission (USITC) has voted to institute an investigation of certain electronic digital media devices and components thereof. The products at issue in this investigation include mobile phone handsets and tablet computers, in addition to components such as software, touchpads, and hardware interfaces.

The investigation is based on a complaint filed by Apple Inc. of Cupertino, CA, on July 5, 2011. The complaint alleges violations of section 337 of the Tariff Act of 1930 in the importation into the United States and sale of certain electronic digital media devices and components thereof that infringe patents asserted by Apple. The complainant requests that the USITC issue an exclusion order and cease and desist orders.Apple kicked off the dispute with a lawsuit (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/18/apple-targets-samsung-with-new-lawsuit-over-galaxy-line/) filed against Samsung in mid-April claiming that a number of Samsung's smartphone and tablet devices had copied Apple's designs and functionality. Apple did not file a complaint with the ITC at that time.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/samsung_logo.jpg


The dispute escalated after that time, with Samsung filing a number of countersuits and Apple filing additional suits against Samsung in a number of countries. Samsung also took its case to the ITC in late June, a move which prompted Apple to follow suit a week later. The ITC last week agreed (http://www.usitc.gov/press_room/news_release/2011/er0727jj2.htm) to investigate Samsung's complaint against Apple.

The maneuvering comes as Bloomberg reports that Samsung has delayed the launch (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/01/samsung-delays-australian-launch-of-galaxy-tab-10-1-due-to-apple-patent-lawsuit/) of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia after reaching an agreement with Apple related to the iPad maker's request for an injunction against the release of the Galaxy Tab. Samsung has publicly stated that it still intends to release the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia in the "near future" and that it never intended to release the U.S. version that is the topic of the injunction proceedings in Australia. The company has not, however, denied that there has been a delay in the device's launch and that Apple will have access to the Australian version a week before its scheduled debut so that Apple can determine whether to amend its injunction request to include the variation.

Article Link: U.S. Regulators Agree to Investigate Apple's Patent Claims Against Samsung (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/02/u-s-regulators-agree-to-investigate-apples-patent-claims-against-samsung/)



Plas00
Aug 2, 2011, 11:11 AM
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Good. Competion is great but plain stealing form factors and tech just because you are one of the manufacturers of the competition's successful devices says a lot of how Samsung has no issues in ripping off its customers (corporate and retail).

*LTD*
Aug 2, 2011, 11:14 AM
Apple's confidence and their insistence on pursuing these parties should be an indication that Apple is onto something, and that this most certainly isn't any sort of frivolity.

This alone is quite telling:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/190642/20110802/no-samsung-galaxy-tab-in-australia-until-legal-dispute-with-apple-is-resolved.htm

Rodimus Prime
Aug 2, 2011, 11:32 AM
Apple's confidence and their insistence on pursuing these parties should be an indication that Apple is onto something, and that this most certainly isn't any sort of frivolity.

This alone is quite telling:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/190642/20110802/no-samsung-galaxy-tab-in-australia-until-legal-dispute-with-apple-is-resolved.htm

If apple loses the case they will be paying a huge premium and money to samsung. Part of the agreement since Samsung I believe agree to it as well is if Apple loses they will be paying Samsung for the money they loss.

Not really telling at all.

Apple is looking more and more like just someone running scared sueing anyone who is a threat to them.

spazzcat
Aug 2, 2011, 11:44 AM
If apple loses the case they will be paying a huge premium and money to samsung. Part of the agreement since Samsung I believe agree to it as well is if Apple loses they will be paying Samsung for the money they loss.

Not really telling at all.

Apple is looking more and more like just someone running scared sueing anyone who is a threat to them.

Apple has to try and protect their IP. They wouldn't go this route if they didn't think they had a case...

ethana
Aug 2, 2011, 12:57 PM
Apple is looking more and more like just someone running scared sueing anyone who is a threat to them.

Totally disagree. What are the points of copyrights, trademarks, patents, etc then? Does Apple just ignore that they feel these are being violated? How would you feel if you created something and then someone created something nearly identical?

Apple OBVIOUSLY feels they have a strong case. Are they doing this because Samsung is gaining ground with these new products? Yes. But they also feel that Samsung products are gaining ground because of the IP they stole from Apple, not something Samsung created on their own.

There is a reason Apple specifically chose to go after Samsung (a close partner of theirs for a long time) hard and with force. It's because Apple feels it's the most blatant rip-off of the bunch out there.

.11
Aug 2, 2011, 01:01 PM
Apple has to try and protect their IP. They wouldn't go this route if they didn't think they had a case...

The same logic can be applied to companies that lost their suit.

And the same logic applies to Lodsys, they wouldn't sue all theses companies without a strong case, right?

edit

And to be clear I'm hoping Lodsys loses.

TsunamiTheClown
Aug 2, 2011, 01:14 PM
If apple loses the case they will be paying a huge premium and money to samsung. Part of the agreement since Samsung I believe agree to it as well is if Apple loses they will be paying Samsung for the money they loss.

Not really telling at all.

Apple is looking more and more like just someone running scared sueing anyone who is a threat to them.

Sheesh, if IP is not protected then the market place turns into a free-for-all. There may be some politicking involved, but also some good'ole fashioned prosecution aimed at the hangers-on, in this case Samsung.

ct2k7
Aug 2, 2011, 01:25 PM
Just because they are pursuing it doesn't mean that they feel it is strong.

A company filed for a preliminary injunction. The night before the case was due in court, the plaintiff withdrew all of its witnesses. The case is still shattering.

*LTD*
Aug 2, 2011, 01:54 PM
Just because they are pursuing it doesn't mean that they feel it is strong.

A company filed for a preliminary injunction. The night before the case was due in court, the plaintiff withdrew all of its witnesses. The case is still shattering.

uh yeah . . . it's pretty safe to say they do, given the kind of antics we've seen from Samsung over the past few months. They were already ordered by the courts to hand over their goods to Apple for inspection, and all of a sudden Samsung has declined to publish their smartphone figures (whereas they're published.)

BC2009
Aug 2, 2011, 02:11 PM
Apple is looking more and more like just someone running scared sueing anyone who is a threat to them.

Apple looks like somebody that is tired of taking the IP infringement lying down. I recognize that all companies (including Apple) are guilty of copying each other's features, but when you have patents, and trademarks, and you have folks creating "knock-offs" of your product with their own brand name on it you have to do something about it.

Google Android copied tons of Apple's features and then tried to give them away for free to the likes of Samsung, HTC, Motorola and others. They are trying to commoditize Apple's innovations and devalue them. Its brilliant play on Google's part, but others like Microsoft have struck back at the manufacturers by placing licensing fees on Android usage -- making it "not so free". Apple is trying to do the same now with some of their patents. It seems to me to be the proper response. Google is arming the enemy with weapons, and Apple is trying to render those weapons less useful or unusable.

For its part, Google has no interest in making the best mobile operating system. They just want a place to show their ads. They want every piece of media content, every mobile platform, and every website to be free -- free for the display of Google ads. Android was an awesome means to that end on the mobile OS front, but for every move there is a countermove. If Apple sought to stop Google only by trying to innovate faster than Google could copy they would definitely lose. Once an innovation is in place, it takes very little effort to copy it. Choosing to fight in the courts makes far more sense for Apple -- they need to undo the commoditization of the mobile OS market, and it makes sense to strike on multiple fronts -- slow down the competition while implementing as many innovations as you can.

I fully expect Apple's competition to do the same to them. Hit Apple with lawsuits (which they have) and try to innovate on their own (only some have tried that -- most just wait for the next Android release and throw some crap on top of it).

Lone Deranger
Aug 2, 2011, 02:54 PM
How would you feel if you created something and then someone created something nearly identical?

That's the problem with folks like that Rodimus Prime fella. They are not creators. They are merely content users. And as such cannot fathom what it is like to invest vast amounts of time and effort into the design and creation of a tangible product that is meant to earn you your living. They can't understand a creator's motivation behind wanting to protect those efforts from abuse by the competition.


'It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.'

~Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne in Paris, France on April 23, 1910.

ct2k7
Aug 2, 2011, 03:50 PM
uh yeah . . . it's pretty safe to say they do, given the kind of antics we've seen from Samsung over the past few months. They were already ordered by the courts to hand over their goods to Apple for inspection, and all of a sudden Samsung has declined to publish their smartphone figures (whereas they're published.)

No, the lawyers, not Apple, would have seen them.

kdarling
Aug 3, 2011, 12:22 AM
Apple OBVIOUSLY feels they have a strong case. Are they doing this because Samsung is gaining ground with these new products? Yes.

There's no doubt that Apple feels threatened in the long term, athough I would submit that their plan of forcing others to improve their systems in new and clever ways differently from iOS, is probably not the best strategy to take :)

But they also feel that Samsung products are gaining ground because of the IP they stole from Apple, not something Samsung created on their own.

We have to differentiate between the types of IP we're talking about.

On the one hand, it could be quite valid to try to claim that someone is using your exact look and feel, and other visual innovations (e.g. bounceback at edges).

On the other, we should not use phrases like "stole" too easily in reference to most of the non-visual patent claims. It's extremely unlikely that anyone actually looked at Apple's patents and decided to implement them. On the contrary, many of the disputed patents are over fairly old internal code ideas that were independently created. In fact, some of these patents could be struck down.

For its part, Google has no interest in making the best mobile operating system. They just want a place to show their ads.

Not only does that not make sense, it doesn't reflect reality.

Of course Google wants to make a good OS, so people will use it.

As for ads, I'm not sure what/where you mean. The only place people see ads are in apps, and personally, I see more in iOS apps than Android apps. Both Google and Apple love to sell ads in apps.

Lone Deranger
Aug 3, 2011, 02:40 AM
As for ads, I'm not sure what/where you mean. The only place people see ads are in apps, and personally, I see more in iOS apps than Android apps. Both Google and Apple love to sell ads in apps.

Maybe just the fact that Google derives over 96% (http://investor.google.com/financial/tables.html) of it's total revenue from advertisements should clue you in?

ssk2
Aug 3, 2011, 03:34 AM
That's the problem with folks like that Rodimus Prime fella. They are not creators. They are merely content users. And as such cannot fathom what it is like to invest vast amounts of time and effort into the design and creation of a tangible product that is meant to earn you your living. They can't understand a creator's motivation behind wanting to protect those efforts from abuse by the competition.


Nice insult on the sly there, I'm sure Rodimus Prime is oh so hurt by your insinuation.

FWIW, anyone who says Apple must be on to a winning case here must obviously support Lodsys in their numerous litigious processes as they too are vigorously pursuing a number of IP suits.

Winni
Aug 3, 2011, 07:56 AM
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Good. Competion is great but plain stealing form factors and tech just because you are one of the manufacturers of the competition's successful devices says a lot of how Samsung has no issues in ripping off its customers (corporate and retail).

Is the Holy Inquisition of the Holy Church of Apple at work again...?

You probably don't even have the faintest idea of how many ideas Apple has stolen over the last three decades, beginning with the graphical user interface and mouse and lately the entire notification system in iOS. Touch screens were not Apple's invention either, and neither were tablet computers. The guys at Apple make great products and they make a lot of scattered ideas work for the masses, but they are not the only people with ideas on that planet and not everything that you folks BELIEVE comes from them actually came from them. Most of the time, they just improved concepts that others conceived long before them and make it work. That in itself already is a great achievement and deserves respect. But it won't hurt to look behind their marketing schemes and call BS when they brag about the many "innovations" that basically are just re-implementations of the products of other developers. Apple certainly has no issues with ripping off the ideas of the "Apple design award" winners or copying little Shareware and Freeware products and selling them as their own innovations. Heck, Apple even uses other companies' product names: iOS, iPhone, Mighty Mouse...

"Good artists copy, great artists steal." -- Picasso

http://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/

BC2009
Aug 3, 2011, 11:34 PM
Not only does that not make sense, it doesn't reflect reality.

Of course Google wants to make a good OS, so people will use it.

As for ads, I'm not sure what/where you mean. The only place people see ads are in apps, and personally, I see more in iOS apps than Android apps. Both Google and Apple love to sell ads in apps.

Google's goal is inevitability. They want their OS in the most hands as possible. You don't need to have the best user experience or features to achieve that -- you just need to make the price differential big enough that folks won't want to upgrade tot he competitor. Most Android phones are not really used for smartphones, it has just become cheaper to make an Android phone to make your own phone software since Android is free for manufacturers (with the exception of licensing fees to Microsoft for the big players -- who do really make Android smartphones).

Google did not want to be dependent on Apple's platform to get their ads to people. They began to see that mobile could overtake the desktop for internet advertising and they saw that owning an OS that drove people to your services and your ads and was guaranteed to support you as the primary ad provider would be huge. I think Google was dead right in seeing that. However, they did not set out on this Android adventure to make the best OS -- but to create a delivery platform for their ads. That is my point.

kdarling
Aug 4, 2011, 08:36 AM
However, they did not set out on this Android adventure to make the best OS -- but to create a delivery platform for their ads. That is my point.

Of course, to reach the widest and most valuable ad audience they would need to make their OS as attractive as possible to all smartphone buyers, not just a lowest end group.

BC2009
Aug 5, 2011, 03:06 PM
Of course, to reach the widest and most valuable ad audience they would need to make their OS as attractive as possible to all smartphone buyers, not just a lowest end group.

good point and true enough. if online advertises are not seeing purchases generated by click-through's from Android ads, then the value of those ads decreases significantly. however, i think Google's first-round Android goal is to proclaim to the world that it is a de-facto standard to gain mind-share around it. they love pushing the market share stats and activation stats. i think they believe if they sell the belief that the "masses on using Android" then they can later capture the high-value ad audience -- but right now they are creating those stats with the low-value ad audience and give-away phones.

even so, Android still trails iOS in total market share when you include non-smartphone devices. certainly Google is not going to share that information, but Apple has latched onto it. Google wants it all to play out like Mac vs Windows, or rather wants everybody believing it will be to make a self-fulfilling prophecy.

MacinDoc
Aug 6, 2011, 10:26 PM
Is the Holy Inquisition of the Holy Church of Apple at work again...?

You probably don't even have the faintest idea of how many ideas Apple has stolen over the last three decades, beginning with the graphical user interface and mouse and lately the entire notification system in iOS. Touch screens were not Apple's invention either, and neither were tablet computers. The guys at Apple make great products and they make a lot of scattered ideas work for the masses, but they are not the only people with ideas on that planet and not everything that you folks BELIEVE comes from them actually came from them. Most of the time, they just improved concepts that others conceived long before them and make it work. That in itself already is a great achievement and deserves respect. But it won't hurt to look behind their marketing schemes and call BS when they brag about the many "innovations" that basically are just re-implementations of the products of other developers. Apple certainly has no issues with ripping off the ideas of the "Apple design award" winners or copying little Shareware and Freeware products and selling them as their own innovations. Heck, Apple even uses other companies' product names: iOS, iPhone, Mighty Mouse...

"Good artists copy, great artists steal." -- Picasso

http://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/
In other words, Apple sees great ideas that are not being used to their full potential, and buys or licenses them to enable that potential to be harnessed. Samsung, on the other hand, copies without permission, and when pressed by Apple to stop, demands that Apple provide the company with all future products under development by Apple to see what else it can copy.