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HappyDude20
Aug 3, 2011, 01:22 AM
I love and hate Lion. Mainly because of Mission Control & no longer having Space & Expose.

I've included a screenshot in this thread of my current Mission Control view and have to admit I'm not a fan of how my full screen apps I presented to me on top of Mission Control. I'd like Safari to be first. My main app is and has always been OmniFocus and though they don't yet have full-screen functionality, they still remain in my 1st desktop. I'd like Safari as the next...

Iono, BTW, this seems to be an add-on thread of that "Mission Control Replacement?" thread here in the OSX Lion Forums that has a couple of thousand views.

For those of us that need more functionality in our computers, we need to raise our voices towards Apple.

Snow Leopard has taken us a long way and Lion seems the have slightly tapped on the brakes.

By the ways, here is Apple's Contact Link & hope you'll join me in voicing concerns over Spaces & Expose: http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Nevertheless thought i'd simply share my woes as a MacBook Pro power user, that's currently seeking Mission Control solutions (not alternatives) until Apple hopefully bring Spaces back.

Warm Regards,

HappyDude20



iGrouch
Aug 3, 2011, 02:14 AM
I have not moved to Lion yet, but will do soon. The main reason is twofold. Firstly for the first time in ten years I have been stymied by parts of my workflow being interrupted by the way Lion works or because some features of software are not going to work the same way. Fortunately I have just resolved those issues with workarounds.

The second thing is the radical way Apple have changed the way we use the OS; this mainly, for me, is in the area of window management (expose/spaces). Don't get me wrong, while I can see the argument of, don't fix what aint broke for the sake of change, I do like the neatness of Mission Control. It is limiting compared to what Expose/Spaces could do and it is very annoying if one used the spaces intensively as part of their workflow. But, As an interface for most users MC makes sense and in some way is easier to understand for non power users. I think it need some more work in terms of jumping into expose all windows for each app, where it is unusable if there are too many windows open.

Personally my solution for all of this is revolutionary for me, but not so in terms of GUI. I am currently using it for the last few days in Snow Leopard. I don't use Expose or space anymore. Shock horror it is very Windows in implementation and now that I am using it, I am thinking what the hell was Expose/Spaces about for all these years.....

The solution is HyerDock. Effectively what it does is tile all open windows for an application in a HUD as you hover over each app icon in the Dock. This I understand was/is an option Windows. My thinking is, If you know which window and its associated app that you are looking for you head directly to its app icon in the Dock. In my case the Dock is pinned to the right of the screen. The HUD appears and small tiles appear clearly showing the windows. You select the window you want. There is no zooming in and out for expose, then the long scrutinizing of window mess (if there are a lot open) to find what you are for, then click.

HyperDock also has some extra functionality. A closing x appears on each tile. While hovering on a tile a full screen preview of the window appears (handy for a quick look and no need for space bar). A + in the corner of the HUD for adding new window or open new doc depending on the app. There are many configurable options in the HyperDock PrefPane.

One annoyance with HyperDock. It can get in the way sometimes when triggered accidently by the user mousing too near the Dock icons but apart from that, for me it is brilliant. For some people it won't be their cup of tea.

What strikes me most about discovering HyperDock is that sometimes the prissiness about not wanting to copy the competitors OS is a bit silly. For me the tilling of open windows from the Dock icon works far better than expose I don't care if it was used first in Windows. Likewise MS got all panicky about Apple's Expose and had to kind of do their own have baked version of it in Vista, when the tilling of open windows from the taskbar worked far more effectively.

Which brings us full circle....Why fix what aint broke?

HappyDude20
Aug 3, 2011, 02:21 AM
I have not moved to Lion yet, but will do soon. The main reason is twofold. Firstly for the first time in ten years I have been stymied by parts of my workflow being interrupted by the way Lion works or because some features of software are not going to work the same way. Fortunately I have just resolved those issues with workarounds.

The second thing is the radical way Apple have changed the way we use the OS; this mainly, for me, is in the area of window management (expose/spaces). Don't get me wrong, while I can see the argument of, don't fix what aint broke for the sake of change, I do like the neatness of Mission Control. It is limiting compared to what Expose/Spaces could do and it is very annoying if one used the spaces intensively as part of their workflow. But, As an interface for most users MC makes sense and in some way is easier to understand for non power users. I think it need some more work in terms of jumping into expose all windows for each app, where it is unusable if there are too many windows open.

Personally my solution for all of this is revolutionary for me, but not so in terms of GUI. I am currently using it for the last few days in Snow Leopard. I don't use Expose or space anymore. Shock horror it is very Windows in implementation and now that I am using it, I am thinking what the hell was Expose/Spaces about for all these years.....

The solution is HyerDock. Effectively what it does is tile all open windows for an application in a HUD as you hover over each app icon in the Dock. This I understand was/is an option Windows. My thinking is, If you know which window and its associated app that you are looking for you head directly to its app icon in the Dock. In my case the Dock is pinned to the right of the screen. The HUD appears and small tiles appear clearly showing the windows. You select the window you want. There is no zooming in and out for expose, then the long scrutinizing of window mess (if there are a lot open) to find what you are for, then click.

HyperDock also has some extra functionality. A closing x appears on each tile. While hovering on a tile a full screen preview of the window appears (handy for a quick look and no need for space bar). A + in the corner of the HUD for adding new window or open new doc depending on the app. There are many configurable options in the HyperDock PrefPane.

One annoyance with HyperDock. It can get in the way sometimes when triggered accidently by the user mousing too near the Dock icons but apart from that, for me it is brilliant. For some people it won't be their cup of tea.

What strikes me most about discovering HyperDock is that sometimes the prissiness about not wanting to copy the competitors OS is a bit silly. For me the tilling of open windows from the Dock icon works far better than expose I don't care if it was used first in Windows. Likewise MS got all panicky about Apple's Expose and had to kind of do their own have baked version of it in Vista, when the tilling of open windows from the taskbar worked far more effectively.

Which brings us full circle....Why fix what aint broke?

During the first half of the year I was living in China and had the opportunity to install the Lion beta, though didn't in the end considering should something have gone awry, I would've been stuck with a useless MBP for 3 months.

Now, considering I have Lion I somewhat regret purchasing Lion. I do enjoy full screen apps immensely but hate Mission Control. Well, admittedly i'm attempting to enjoy Mission Control by getting used to me 3 fingers-swipe-up implementation of getting to Mission Control and having my apps in an appropriate, according order; as per mentioned above.

I do have me SL reinstall disk, but I feel like giving Lion a chance...but when University begins, assuming I'll have an array of coursework to do, I'll be forced to revert back to SL or figure a solution in my productivity with Lion; something of which I assume Apple knows I'll be attempting.

stratokaster
Aug 3, 2011, 04:38 AM
In the end, I found Mission Control to be moderately useful. Of course, I will miss SL's Spaces & Exposé, but I can live with Lion.

I have the following Spaces setup:

Space 1 - general (browsing, etc.)

Space 2 - Mail

Space 3 - Lightroom. This is one of my key applications. It has its own (very nicely implemented) full screen view. It's possible to move Lightroom to a regular space and use it in a full screen mode. I really hope Adobe does not implement full screen the Lion way, it will be a disaster.

Space 4 - Skype, iChat, Twitter. I keep those apps on a separate space because otherwise they distract me too much.

And that's it. I use iTunes and Reeder in full screen mode when I'm on the go and just move them to the smaller screen when my MBP is hooked to my 24" external display.

I probably won't create more Spaces because it's a PITA to launch all the apps, and manually assign them to desktops using the Dock menu.

phpmaven
Aug 3, 2011, 09:26 AM
I love and hate Lion. Mainly because of Mission Control & no longer having Space & Expose.

I've included a screenshot in this thread of my current Mission Control view and have to admit I'm not a fan of how my full screen apps I presented to me on top of Mission Control. I'd like Safari to be first. My main app is and has always been OmniFocus and though they don't yet have full-screen functionality, they still remain in my 1st desktop. I'd like Safari as the next...

Iono, BTW, this seems to be an add-on thread of that "Mission Control Replacement?" thread here in the OSX Lion Forums that has a couple of thousand views.

For those of us that need more functionality in our computers, we need to raise our voices towards Apple.

Snow Leopard has taken us a long way and Lion seems the have slightly tapped on the brakes.

By the ways, here is Apple's Contact Link & hope you'll join me in voicing concerns over Spaces & Expose: http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Nevertheless thought i'd simply share my woes as a MacBook Pro power user, that's currently seeking Mission Control solutions (not alternatives) until Apple hopefully bring Spaces back.

Warm Regards,

HappyDude20

You can assign specific apps to specific desktops, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say you can't put apps in the order you would like.

robgendreau
Aug 3, 2011, 10:01 AM
It's rather time the next Apple came around.

You can only go so far with the desktop metaphor. The iOS interface is great…for a phone, or maybe a pad. But it rather lags on my computer in some ways.

I've tried experimenting with Finder alternatives like Conjure and Raskin, and they show promise. The former makes the screen something you can do work on, if that makes any sense; you input by writing or drawing. Ideally I'd like to just start typing then hit a key combo or button and make that an email, or Word do or whatever. Sort of like having WriteRoom going instead of the Finder. Or SketchBook. And Raskin is an interesting way to look at all your stuff, but it showed me way too much, and I had trouble with how to customize it. But a combination of these techniques would be great. The Finder is just showing its age, and it really isn't MC that's the problem, it's that it sits atop the Finder.

And Apple blew it for those of us with extra monitors. It would have been so cool to have full screen apps going on one monitor, with another approach on the second monitor. But instead full screen just shuts the other off. Sad.

Rob

Gemütlichkeit
Aug 3, 2011, 10:20 AM
Snow Leopard has taken us a long way and Lion seems the have slightly tapped on the brakes.


OH THE HUGE MANATEE

Moist considerations

-Gemütlichkeit

gusmahler
Aug 3, 2011, 10:23 AM
And Apple blew it for those of us with extra monitors. It would have been so cool to have full screen apps going on one monitor, with another approach on the second monitor. But instead full screen just shuts the other off. Sad.

Wow! I did not know this. Now I'm happy that I haven't upgraded to Lion yet. That isn't sad, it's absurd.

Spaces works great, have no idea why they would change it. I use 1 for my windows, 2 for iTunes, 3 for my wifes, 4 for anything that needs the entire dual monitor (e.g., Lightroom or Final Cut). Very easy to switch between window groups. I generally have lots of windows up and the clutter bothers my wife, so her space only has the browser and Word (or whatever she's working on). And my space has the bunch of browser windows that I typically use.

Steve's Barber
Aug 3, 2011, 10:52 AM
You can assign specific apps to specific desktops, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say you can't put apps in the order you would like.

In the end, I found Mission Control to be moderately useful.

I have the following Spaces setup:

The Spaces scenario doesn't work with full screen apps as they get their own desktop/space. I can't wrap my head around this general usage of desktops. I wish they were all virtual desktops... complete with their own unique environment and finder. As it is now... all my desktop icons are on all the desktops.

I never used Spaces - couldn't find a need (but I understand why others use it). I just want to see thumbs of all my windows and apps in one gulp like old Expose'. And I really don't care if those thumbs represent full screen apps or not. I can't be the only one who desires this. (Still not understanding why full screen apps get their own desktop and are exempt from "Expose").

What strikes me most about discovering HyperDock is that sometimes the prissiness about not wanting to copy the competitors OS is a bit silly. For me the tilling of open windows from the Dock icon works far better than expose

Agree. Some things in MS Windows just make sense. I use a small background app called Witch from the app store. It lets me CMD+TAB through all windows just like the Windows OS. None of this "Apps only" nonsense, then another CMB+TILDE to cycle through those app windows.

I have a feeling we will see a plethora of 3rd part Mission Control Apps on the market real soon.

iGrouch
Aug 3, 2011, 01:34 PM
One other thing that HyperDock does is this for example:

Two Safari windows. Put one into full screen, it gets its own desktop. What you get in the HyperDock pop up is tiles for both.

scottsjack
Aug 3, 2011, 03:10 PM
I love and hate Lion. Mainly because of Mission Control & no longer having Space & Expose.

I've included a screenshot in this thread of my current Mission Control view and have to admit I'm not a fan of how my full screen apps I presented to me on top of Mission Control. I'd like Safari to be first. My main app is and has always been OmniFocus and though they don't yet have full-screen functionality, they still remain in my 1st desktop. I'd like Safari as the next...

Iono, BTW, this seems to be an add-on thread of that "Mission Control Replacement?" thread here in the OSX Lion Forums that has a couple of thousand views.

For those of us that need more functionality in our computers, we need to raise our voices towards Apple.

Snow Leopard has taken us a long way and Lion seems the have slightly tapped on the brakes.

By the ways, here is Apple's Contact Link & hope you'll join me in voicing concerns over Spaces & Expose: http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Nevertheless thought i'd simply share my woes as a MacBook Pro power user, that's currently seeking Mission Control solutions (not alternatives) until Apple hopefully bring Spaces back.

Warm Regards,

HappyDude20

Reverted back to SL on my MP where I use Spaces everday.

baryon
Jan 1, 2012, 09:43 AM
What I hate the most is this: Put an app in full screen and then swipe into Mission Control. What do you see? The contents of Desktop 1. Why?? I have 6 desktops, I'm on the 6th one in a full screen app, and I enter Mission Control, why do I see Desktop 1? Who cares about Desktop 1??! It's so ****** confusing I can't even understand it after having used Lion for months!

KnightWRX
Jan 1, 2012, 09:52 AM
What I hate the most is this: Put an app in full screen and then swipe into Mission Control. What do you see? The contents of Desktop 1. Why?? I have 6 desktops, I'm on the 6th one in a full screen app, and I enter Mission Control, why do I see Desktop 1? Who cares about Desktop 1??! It's so ****** confusing I can't even understand it after having used Lion for months!

What do you want to see ? There's no usefulness in showing you your single full screen window...

I'm quite happy with Mission Control, it fixed a lot of the issues I had with Spaces. I'm from the Linux world, Spaces was a retarded implementation of Virtual Desktops to me.

roadbloc
Jan 1, 2012, 10:01 AM
I'm quite happy with Mission Control, it fixed a lot of the issues I had with Spaces. I'm from the Linux world, Spaces was a retarded implementation of Virtual Desktops to me.

I can play this game too. I'm from the Linux world and Mission Control is a retarded implementation of Virtual Desktops to me.

vitzr
Jan 1, 2012, 10:05 AM
I remain very happy with my highly optimized Snow Leopard 10.6.8

While I did buy a 2011 MBA to try Lion, I'm so glad I made that decision instead of compromising my well sorted network of 2010 Macs.

If at some point in the future Apple improves Lion, as they've done with prior OS's, I may then migrate to 10.7.x

For now Lion has made me truly appreciate the speed & refinement of 10.6

KnightWRX
Jan 1, 2012, 10:35 AM
I can play this game too. I'm from the Linux world and Mission Control is a retarded implementation of Virtual Desktops to me.

It's barely catching up to Enlightenment's 0.14 implementation. Frankly, they're a long road away from DR16's perfect virtual desktop implementation and that hails from about 14 years ago to me...

If only rasterman hadn't ****ed up DR17 with his whole EFL white whale.

No really, what virtual desktops from Linux do you like ? Not Gnome or KDE's stuff (very plain, CDE like if you ask me).

Krazy Bill
Jan 1, 2012, 10:43 AM
What do you want to see ? There's no usefulness in showing you your single full screen window...

Then maybe iLion should stop limiting full screen apps to their own space?

Honestly, I still can't wrap my head around this concept. Prior to Lion, other apps had no problems running in full screen and they could share the same desktop/space peacefully with other apps. Most people who use multiple desktops (or Spaces) really want to categorize their windows into groups. Indeed, this was the whole concept behind the original Spaces. But now, switch one of those apps in that group to full screen and it merrily pops off into La La land all by itself. Why do I care if MC shows them up top just to denote they are full screen?

I just can't think the way Apple wants me to. I do know they don't want me to use the keyboard because now you can't use it to pick and chose windows inside of MC.

I'm from the Linux world, Spaces was a retarded implementation of Virtual Desktops to me.And MC brings you closer to a true virtual desktop how again? Talk about retarded... Even Apple doesn't know what to call the top row in MC. Sometimes it's a desktop, other times it's a Space.

roadbloc
Jan 1, 2012, 10:44 AM
No really, what virtual desktops from Linux do you like ? Not Gnome or KDE's stuff (very plain, CDE like if you ask me).

Sorry, didn't realise there was something wrong with Gnome's implementation. At the end of the day, what we are dealing with is opinions. And your posts give the impression that you think your opinion is that of a higher importance because 'you come from the Linux world.' Just because you 'come from the Linux world' doesn't mean you are going to convince someone who prefers Spaces over Mission Control that they're opinion is wrong.

KnightWRX
Jan 1, 2012, 12:53 PM
Then maybe iLion should stop limiting full screen apps to their own space?

Honestly, I still can't wrap my head around this concept.

You're not forced to use full screen mode if you don't want to you know.

----------

Sorry, didn't realise there was something wrong with Gnome's implementation. At the end of the day, what we are dealing with is opinions. And your posts give the impression that you think your opinion is that of a higher importance because 'you come from the Linux world.' Just because you 'come from the Linux world' doesn't mean you are going to convince someone who prefers Spaces over Mission Control that they're opinion is wrong.

Hum, you're reading far too much into my post and getting the wrong impression then. What I'm saying is that anyone who thinks we're dealing with advanced functionality in either the old Space or in Mission Control hasn't used much more advanced forms of Virtual Desktops and that my opinion is based on using those for close to a decade on the Linux side.

Maybe that's why I actually like Mission Control, to me it's moving more towards the more advanced implementations that I used in the past. I'm not saying my opinion counts for more, I'm explaining where it comes from.

And there's nothing wrong with Gnome's implementation aside that it is very plain. Just like Gnome really (Gnome isn't complete until there are 0 features left after all).

----------

And MC brings you closer to a true virtual desktop how again?

By allowing better organisation of workflow and much better quick visual cues to indicate what is active and where your other work is.

I'm still longing for a desktop pager.

roadbloc
Jan 1, 2012, 01:20 PM
Hum, you're reading far too much into my post and getting the wrong impression then. What I'm saying is that anyone who thinks we're dealing with advanced functionality in either the old Space or in Mission Control hasn't used much more advanced forms of Virtual Desktops and that my opinion is based on using those for close to a decade on the Linux side.

In that case, I mis interpreted your post and you have my apologies.

Krazy Bill
Jan 1, 2012, 02:12 PM
By allowing better organisation of workflow and much better quick visual cues to indicate what is active and where your other work is.I am just not seeing it. Better organization to me does not mean scanning the screen to see where something ended up (top, middle). And too many hoops to jump through for a window that's minimized. Prior Expose' versions on the other hand put things nicely in front of you (even minimized windows) and your entire system view was just a keystroke (or swipe) away. Also the keyboard worked to change windows while in Expose'

Old Spaces kept you more confined in this respect but that's what I liked... my Spaces kept out of the way until I called on them.

Just an old dog yearning for the past here. :)

KnightWRX
Jan 1, 2012, 06:19 PM
Better organization to me does not mean scanning the screen to see where something ended up (top, middle).

I agree on that point. Frankly, that's what the old Expose looks to me. Now everything is clear, Mission Control shows me apps, then within those apps, App Expose shows me windows.

Perfect.

kemo
Jan 4, 2012, 06:53 AM
I remain very happy with my highly optimized Snow Leopard 10.6.8

While I did buy a 2011 MBA to try Lion, I'm so glad I made that decision instead of compromising my well sorted network of 2010 Macs.

If at some point in the future Apple improves Lion, as they've done with prior OS's, I may then migrate to 10.7.x

For now Lion has made me truly appreciate the speed & refinement of 10.6

What you mean by "highly optimized Snow Leopard 10.6.8" ?

vitzr
Jan 4, 2012, 07:16 AM
What you mean by "highly optimized Snow Leopard 10.6.8" ?

Meaning I've spent a lot of time setting up & adjusting preferences, & other elements to suit my workflow in the fastest most efficient manor.

While I've also spent quite a bit of time optimizing Lion, it fails to be as fast and useful as Snow Leopard so far in it's young life. I'm rather sure that Apple will continue to refine Lion, yet it's still too soon to adopt it for my everyday computing needs.

kemo
Jan 4, 2012, 08:06 AM
Meaning I've spent a lot of time setting up & adjusting preferences, & other elements to suit my workflow in the fastest most efficient manor.

While I've also spent quite a bit of time optimizing Lion, it fails to be as fast and useful as Snow Leopard so far in it's young life. I'm rather sure that Apple will continue to refine Lion, yet it's still too soon to adopt it for my everyday computing needs.

Ah I see, so it seems we are on the same boat in way of optimization, because I had the same experience with Lion, and honestly, I hope 10.7.3 will brings more improvements in performance and stability.

Phechs
Jan 11, 2012, 02:06 AM
2 apps that are beginning to pick up the slack of the lacking expose/spaces in lion:

search for an app named "show windows" in the app store, a very useful expose all and re-arrange app

then, of course, "Change SPace" from pennysmalls:
http://pennysmalls.com/change-space-grows-up

IMO, There is a big gap in the market for a worthy replacement, a REAL virtual desktop solution for Lion. ESPECIALLY FOR "PRO USERS", I use 12 spaces, 4x3 on dual monitor setup.