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*LTD*
Aug 3, 2011, 08:41 PM
OS X Lion Wants You To Never Press "Save" Again. Here's How It Works.


Two of Mac OS X Lion's most useful new bragging points are the one-two-punch Auto-Save and Versions features.

They work together to make editing documents and keeping track of changes seamless.

In Lion, you shouldn't ever have to press Save on a document again. At least this is how things work for Apple apps like Pages, Keynote, Numbers, and TextEdit.

Soon, third party developers will implement Apple's new developer tool for auto-saving, and we'll start seeing more apps that save on their own and let you browse previous versions of your media.

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4e39a77beab8ea1073000032/versions-lion-title-image.jpg
Sort through old versions of your document....in space.


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Neato!



MartiNZ
Aug 3, 2011, 09:53 PM
Yeah, but if I'm not pressing save, it means I DON'T want the changes saved. But apparently Lion does, and it's in charge.

mapleleafer
Aug 4, 2011, 12:21 AM
How often does Lion autosave? How many copies of the same document are written to disk? Will I need to get a bigger disk, or will earlier versions automatically get deleted at some time?

palebluedot
Aug 4, 2011, 01:05 AM
Yeah, but if I'm not pressing save, it means I DON'T want the changes saved. But apparently Lion does, and it's in charge.

QFT. I mean it's a cool feature but this whole post-PC era stuff is getting funny. Are folks in society really so lazy that they cant be bothered to click "save". Is loosing control over our tools really worth the trade off.

/end philosophical searching

/gets excited for autosave

Macman45
Aug 4, 2011, 01:07 AM
In Office for mac!!:D

murdercitydevil
Aug 4, 2011, 01:36 AM
In Office for mac!!:D

why would it? office is an MS product and they haven't updated it.

Macman45
Aug 4, 2011, 01:40 AM
why would it? office is an MS product and they haven't updated it.

It was a lame attempt at sarcasm :)

murdercitydevil
Aug 4, 2011, 02:08 AM
It was a lame attempt at sarcasm :)

Oh I get it.

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

Boo The Hamster
Aug 4, 2011, 03:07 AM
Or to look at it another way...

OS X Lion Wants You To Never Press "Save" Again. Here's How It Works.
Two of Mac OS X Lion's most annoying points are the one-two-punch Auto-Save and Versions features.

They work together to make editing documents and keeping track of changes none of your business.

In Lion, you won't ever be able to press Save on a document again if things progress the way they seem to be going. At least this is how things work for Apple apps like Pages, Keynote, Numbers, and TextEdit, but this is only the tip of the iceberg

Unfortunately, soon, third party developers will implement Apple's new developer tool for auto-saving, and we'll start seeing more apps that save on their own and let you browse previous versions of your media.

The days of the computer working for you are coming to an end.

Coming to a Mac near you in a couple of years...

Mac OS X 10.9 : Skynet...

paulsalter
Aug 4, 2011, 03:15 AM
for me these are Lion's 2 most annoying features

thankfully not all apps support this

marc11
Aug 4, 2011, 03:49 AM
For thost that say that this is a bad feature, please explain to me how? It means never losing a change again within the autosave window. Taking HDD space aside and with the coming autosave to iCloud HDD space will soon be a non-issue sort of, but how is the autosave bad?

With the ability to scroll through the versions, you not only have all the edits you have made, but if you decided you did not like or want the current set of revisions, you just roll back to any previous version you had...to me that is the best of all save, manual or auto worlds. I never loose changes and can never accidentally overwrite a known good version with a bad one and never have to answer the question Are you SURE you want to save your changes, when exiting a document or file I was certain I did not edit.

paulsalter
Aug 4, 2011, 03:59 AM
For thost that say that this is a bad feature, please explain to me how? It means never losing a change again within the autosave window. Taking HDD space aside and with the coming autosave to iCloud HDD space will soon be a non-issue sort of, but how is the autosave bad?

With the ability to scroll through the versions, you not only have all the edits you have made, but if you decided you did not like or want the current set of revisions, you just roll back to any previous version you had...to me that is the best of all save, manual or auto worlds. I never loose changes and can never accidentally overwrite a known good version with a bad one and never have to answer the question Are you SURE you want to save your changes, when exiting a document or file I was certain I did not edit.

versions I have no problem with, this is a good idea, its the auto saving of my actual document I don't like, as mentioned above, I might not always want it to be saved

this is how I would have preferred it to work

work on a document
it creates the versions in the background as it does now
when you close the app, it asks as before if you want to keep this as your final and save it permanently (this could be optional for those that don't want to see this
if you chose to save, then you file on disc has latest version
if you chose not to save you still have the versions if you want to go back

the principal of having it is good, but for me I never want my original file to be saved over unless I tell the system to do it

marc11
Aug 4, 2011, 04:02 AM
Hmmm maybe I am misunderstanding versions and autosave. I had assumed, and admit I didn't try, but assumed each autosave created a new version, is that NOT the case?

paulsalter
Aug 4, 2011, 04:19 AM
Hmmm maybe I am misunderstanding versions and autosave. I had assumed, and admit I didn't try, but assumed each autosave created a new version, is that NOT the case?

think it does, replace my word original above with default

open document - new version is created
while modifying - new version is created at set intervals

when closing the app, the last version worked on is the default that opens when you re open the app

what i would like is a way of when closing the app, it gives you the option of which to use as default, last edited or original (so similar to save/don't save except the versions are saved so you wouldn't lose anything if you do need to go back)

not fully tested this, but apps like Lightroom & Aperture do not like it if images are edited externally to these apps, if you look at them in preview and accidentally change something, problems can arise (I know you can lock them, but like mentioned above, you might want to mess around and try something, not wanting to save it)

baryon
Aug 4, 2011, 04:23 AM
Too bad you don't know which apps support Auto Save and which ones don't, so you have to know before you think that you don't have to save. Try working in Photoshop and if you think it's saving stuff for you, you'll lose your work (well, it warns you before quitting, but still).

Not sure I like this feature, especially that I can no longer keep track of what document is in what state. Sometimes I like to make changes, and then Save As to duplicate the document. Now I have to first duplicate the document, and then make changes. But how can I know, in advance, that the changes I will make will be worth making a duplicate? I can only know what once I have made the changes, hence Save As.

Moreover, the fact that some apps support Auto Save and most of them don't means that you need to have different workflows for different apps, and you must keep in mind which app does what. This means that if you get confused once then you're screwed.

*LTD*
Aug 4, 2011, 05:53 AM
Yeah, but if I'm not pressing save, it means I DON'T want the changes saved.

It doesn't actually matter because you've got the Versions feature.

Yet you received several positive ratings to reward your lack of understanding.

Why is Versions so difficult to understand??

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4753

Versions–Versions automatically records the history of a document as you create and make changes to it. OS X Lion automatically creates a new version of a document each time you open it and every hour while you’re working on it. You can also create snapshots of a document whenever you like. With an interface similar to that of Time Machine, Versions shows you the current document next to a cascade of previous versions, allowing you to do side-by-side comparisons of your working document with past versions. You can restore entire past versions, or bring elements from past versions such as pictures or text into your working document.

OllyW
Aug 4, 2011, 06:11 AM
In Lion, you shouldn't ever have to press Save on a document again.

How do you give it a file name without saving it?

maflynn
Aug 4, 2011, 06:21 AM
I personally like to be the one dictating what I save, when I save it, and to be honest where I save it.

With this "feature" all of that flexibility is removed, I have to live by what apple things I need to call it, where it will go and when it will be saved. I use save as and name it something slightly different to indicate the type of change I'm doing.

This is probably why apple is has not replaced HFS+ to a more modern file system because they're in the process of hiding/removing the file system from us. ~/Library is hidden, the OS is dictating where and when documents are being saved etc.

OllyW
Aug 4, 2011, 06:31 AM
I've created a test file in text edit.

After 10 minutes I added some more text.

10 minutes later I added some more.

I haven't pressed save. It hasn't been saved. There are no versions.

The title of this thread seems a little misleading.

MartiNZ
Aug 4, 2011, 06:46 AM
It doesn't actually matter because you've got the Versions feature.

Yet you received several positive ratings to reward your lack of understanding.

Why is Versions so difficult to understand??

It isn't, that's why I got positive ratings ... for all the massive value placed on that :rolleyes:. LOL at Safari for auto-correcting that smiley code, deserves another one :rolleyes:! And, off with that 'feature'.

It doesn't matter because I have the Versions feature? Okay, I dig at the absolutely most base level, but in any number of examples where you don't actually want the changes saved - in fact I would say pre-Lion that would have been the case for MOST of my dealings with Preview and TextEdit - it is now extra work to not screw up my files, especially, as has been reported in many places already, if external media are involved and thus the version trail lost.

And of course, I'd be fine with it all if we could just turn it off, but I'm really doubting it at this point, hence the comments after mine about loss of control and skynet - no, not two words auto-correct ><.

Man, I just couldn't agree more with most of the posts in here, time to do some rating of my own ... that'll make me feel better :).

FSMBP
Aug 4, 2011, 07:21 AM
I've created a test file in text edit.

After 10 minutes I added some more text.

10 minutes later I added some more.

I haven't pressed save. It hasn't been saved. There are no versions.

The title of this thread seems a little misleading.

It does a version every hour I think (like Time Machine). So, if you Quit TextEdit (you won't be prompted to save) and reopen it - it will have the same text you had entered.

It's a somewhat useful feature - but all apps should have an 'opt out'.

JS77
Aug 4, 2011, 07:29 AM
It doesn't actually matter because you've got the Versions feature.


Lmao! So... You're actually saying it's ok if autosave keeps saving temporary revisions I make to a document when I DON'T want to save them, because next time I load the document I can go through a history of revisions to get back to what should be there in the first place??

Wow, that just soooo productive! .... :eek:

OllyW
Aug 4, 2011, 07:50 AM
It does a version every hour I think (like Time Machine). So, if you Quit TextEdit (you won't be prompted to save) and reopen it - it will have the same text you had entered.

It's a somewhat useful feature - but all apps should have an 'opt out'.

I realise how it works.

The file has been open for over a hour and a half now and it's still not been saved or got any versions. You have to save it before Auto Save and Versions start working.

I think that means you do have to press save again. ;)