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MacRumors
Aug 8, 2011, 06:25 AM
http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/08/apple-launches-999-imac-for-educational-institutions/)


http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/08/appleedu.png


Apple has quietly launched a lower cost $999 iMac for educational institutions this morning. The new low-end model is labeled "Education only" and is not available for individuals. The new iMac appeared on Apple's Higher Educational online store early this morning. We've received word of the specs which are not yet published on the site. They include the following reduced features:

- 3.1GHz Intel Core i3 Dual-Core
- 21.5-inch LCD
- AMD Radeon HD 6750 with 256MB
- 2GB RAM
- 250GB Hard Drive
- SuperDrive
- OS X Lion

The next higher model is $1149 and offers a 2.5GHz Quad-Core i5 with 4GB of RAM and 500GB hard drive.

Article Link: Apple Launches $999 iMac for Educational Institutions (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/08/apple-launches-999-imac-for-educational-institutions/)



antster94
Aug 8, 2011, 06:30 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

devianter
Aug 8, 2011, 06:33 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

and FOUR (!!) GB of RAM. Common, Apple, really? 2GB for Lion by default in an iMac? I bought my first iMac in 2007 and it had 2GB.

Kiernan809
Aug 8, 2011, 06:33 AM
No sign of this in the UK edu-store.

HORTENSE
Aug 8, 2011, 06:33 AM
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This would make it easier for schools across America to provide a machine that performs well enough for today's students. If Apple does not have this market yet, they are well on their way to have it all!

candyapplekid
Aug 8, 2011, 06:33 AM
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Nice, I'm in for 0 of em!

Giving up quad core, 2gb ram, and a nice chunk of hdd space to save $150 doesn't seem worth it. I realize that might change when you are buying 50 of them, but still...

Also, I wonder why Apple would want their slowest, worst machines to be the ones used in education. It will be the first experience a lot of kids have with a Mac. You'd think they might just offer some extra volume discounts to education on their standard models.

imahawki
Aug 8, 2011, 06:34 AM
Many US schools have been with Apple for decades. My daughter's school has two large locking carts full of MacBooks (probably 40-50 of them) and there are another 40-50 of the white plastic iMacs in the library. I guarantee they'll be replaced with something like this when they get too old to support.

CAD4MAC
Aug 8, 2011, 06:35 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

Yes but this is changing, UK education wants to provide a choice to students and this now makes it an even more attractive choice!

This might be an 'entry level' iMac but there is still nothing entry about it compared to most of the PCs you'll find in any education institute.

Check out our education Mac pages - http://bit.ly/mac4edu

dethmaShine
Aug 8, 2011, 06:36 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

Because they are used to using Windows, they will always use Windows?

$150 difference for a thousand machines is approx $150,000. That's a lot of money.

One of my friends, studied at University of Hertfordshire, UK and all the machines in all the computer clusters were OS X based, most of them being iMacs.

So if the software permits, there could be massive deployment of OSX based iMacs in the next few years in all the major universities in the US as well as the UK.

usptact
Aug 8, 2011, 06:36 AM
Apple on Campus?

Elven
Aug 8, 2011, 06:38 AM
A lot of schools won't require the performance nor will they have power users.

The specs Apple are offering are enough for your average school needs.

hellomoto4
Aug 8, 2011, 06:38 AM
US only at the moment? Can't see it here in Australia.

rogan
Aug 8, 2011, 06:38 AM
if this hits 749 in UK stores ill buy one, although i dont think it'll happen..

Delegator
Aug 8, 2011, 06:39 AM
Having served on my local school board and gone through three budget cycles, I can say with certainty that magic numbers like "under $1000" are indeed important. In our district we use iMacs up through grade 6, PCs after that. The kind of things that PCs are used for in grade school are not CPU intensive, so spending 15% more on a better CPU is not likely to happen, even when that 15% is "only" $150.

BryceGeekNZ
Aug 8, 2011, 06:40 AM
Is this not on the store yet?

hellomoto4
Aug 8, 2011, 06:44 AM
Clarification: Is this for individual students, or rather educational institutions looking to use iMacs in school?

BryceGeekNZ
Aug 8, 2011, 06:45 AM
Educational Institutions

Clarification: Is this for individual students, or rather educational institutions looking to use iMacs in school?

xUKHCx
Aug 8, 2011, 06:52 AM
Clarification: Is this for individual students, or rather educational institutions looking to use iMacs in school?


Apple has quietly launched a lower cost $999 iMac for educational institutions this morning. The new low-end model is labeled "Education only" and is not available for individuals. The new iMac appeared on Apple's Higher Educational online store early this morning. We've received word of the specs which are not yet published on the site. They include the following reduced features:

...

Article Link: Apple Launches $999 iMac for Educational Institutions (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/08/apple-launches-999-imac-for-educational-institutions/)

;)

Ulf1103
Aug 8, 2011, 06:53 AM
Well, those specs can't be true...
apple upgraded all their apple products in their stores to 4GB RAM for better support of Lion...
So they won't sell it with less than 4 GB of RAM...

The only products with less than 4GB RAM at tho moment are:
The lowest 11" Air (but it has ssd, so there is no problem their) (2 GB)
The lowest Mac mini (2 GB)
And the Mac Pro (3GB) but that's a 377 days old machine, so that doesn't count too...

So actually the only Apple product with less than 4GB RAM is the Mac mini, but almost everyone will upgrade it to 4GB for only 99.99 (or 100$)

MacUser5
Aug 8, 2011, 06:54 AM
It seems likely that $999 is the list price only. Institutions will likely get a large discount on this price. Apple can easily afford to discount based on these specs.

tallchris
Aug 8, 2011, 06:55 AM
A lot of schools won't require the performance nor will they have power users.

The specs Apple are offering are enough for your average school needs.

This,

My uni in the UK was windows based (XP btw didn't trust the newer versions of windows :D) but the computer areas were about 10% iMacs, with all the machines in the 'creative' subjects' building being mac.

Shame they will probably all ship with the mighty mouse so people would get them at their Uni won't get to use gestures though.

BryceGeekNZ
Aug 8, 2011, 06:55 AM
Might order myself one via work ;)

Ulf1103
Aug 8, 2011, 06:56 AM
Is this not on the store yet?

Nope, not yet

hellomoto4
Aug 8, 2011, 07:00 AM
Educational Institutions

;)

Ah. Turns out I'm blind ;)

DrJohnnyN
Aug 8, 2011, 07:01 AM
Good. A quad core processor is not necessary for basic needs.

fila97
Aug 8, 2011, 07:02 AM
Apple should throw in more RAM and reduce the graphics.

Jeaz
Aug 8, 2011, 07:02 AM
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Also, I wonder why Apple would want their slowest, worst machines to be the ones used in education. It will be the first experience a lot of kids have with a Mac. You'd think they might just offer some extra volume discounts to education on their standard models.

Because this is sufficient enough for pretty much all education needs. The ones who need more power are that require a better graphics card and more memory for graphics, CAD and so on, and then the normal entry level iMac wouldn't be enough either.

At my faculty there are 60% windows and 40% mac desktops, and the Windows ones are about 4-5 years old and is enough for 95% of the courses.

goodcow
Aug 8, 2011, 07:02 AM
$150 difference for a thousand machines is approx $150,000. That's a lot of money.

If you're ordering 1,000 iMacs, Apple Edu is going to give you about a 10% discount above the standard Edu discount anyway. Any hardware with a qty. over ten usually nets a 4-6% discount.

gnasher729
Aug 8, 2011, 07:03 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

Excuse me, but in the UK paying $150 more won't get you anything, because we use British Pounds in this country. So you seem to be confused about something. And exactly what do you think requires a "vastly better processor" that is worth paying more money for?

And while you and I can find a computer that is cheaper than a Macintosh (thought not cheaper than an equivalent Mac), if you compare Apple's prices with what instutions have to pay here for computers because it has to go through some government approved purchase scheme from some government approved vendor, Macs are bloody cheap.

But in the end, they would probably be a lot better served with iPads.


The staff will be trained how to use Windows.

It was a lot easier for people trained in Windows XP to use MacOSX than Windows Vista.
It was a lot easier for people trained in Windows Vista to use MacOSX than Windows 7.
It will be a lot easier for people trained in Windows 7 to use MacOSX than Windows 8.

Time to save lots of cost by switching to an OS that doesn't require expensive training.

dethmaShine
Aug 8, 2011, 07:04 AM
The staff will be trained how to use Windows.
The school will already have the software and licenses for Windows software.
The whole network will be set up to use Windows systems.
Its not as easy as just replacing computer.
Plus the fact that $1000 is a lot of money for a computer.

There are IT upgrades every year for most institutions. Even though the schools have licenses for a ton of windows software, many schools/universities may approach the end of the same of this year.

I know transitions aren't easy but do not forget, that they do happen one year or the other.

Chupa Chupa
Aug 8, 2011, 07:06 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

Yes, but Apple doesn't cater exclusively to the UK, right? In fact Apple's biggest market is the U.S. where many school systems traditionally used Macs but started to transition to PCs because they cost less and school budgets are thin - strictly biggest bang for fewest bucks. Apple has been trying to stop the bleeding in this market for years and making serious headway. $150 extra isn't a lot for a single buyer, but for a school system buying 1000 units every dime counts. It's why the MacBook is also still available for edu.

violaboy
Aug 8, 2011, 07:07 AM
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One other thing left off of the education machines (2010 iMac) is bluetooth. I didn't realize it until I bought a BT trackpad and keyboard, then found it in the system profiler. Quite annoying. I'm not sure how many institutions would use BT but I have a computer in an odd location attached to a smartboard.

res1233
Aug 8, 2011, 07:08 AM
There are IT upgrades every year for most institutions. Even though the schools have licenses for a ton of windows software, many schools/universities may approach the end of the same of this year.

I know transitions aren't easy but do not forget, that they do happen one year or the other.

Yep. The simple fact is that MacBooks are popular in education, at least here in the US. That alone is enough to start providing Mac desktops as well for at least part of your network since people will prefer using the same OS for both their laptop and desktop.

striker33
Aug 8, 2011, 07:09 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

Any half decent uni has tonnes of Macs. So of course it will be popular.

The only uni's without Macs will be the ones that dont offer any from of design/art/media course, and there arent many.

goodcow
Aug 8, 2011, 07:10 AM
FYI, there's an Edu $899 model only as well. I just logged into my purchasing account.

http://www.goodcowfilms.com/web/imac1_edu_2011_08_08.png
http://www.goodcowfilms.com/web/imac2_edu_2011_08_08.png
http://www.goodcowfilms.com/web/imac3_edu_2011_08_08.png

DrJohnnyN
Aug 8, 2011, 07:12 AM
FYI, there's an Edu $899 model only as well. I just logged into my purchasing account.



"Apple appears to still offer an even cheaper $899 20" iMac that houses the previous generation Intel Core 2 Duo and does not even appear to include OS X Lion." -- MR

goodcow
Aug 8, 2011, 07:14 AM
"Apple appears to still offer an even cheaper $899 20" iMac that houses the previous generation Intel Core 2 Duo and does not even appear to include OS X Lion." -- MR

Oops.

studentmac
Aug 8, 2011, 07:16 AM
One of my friends, studied at University of Hertfordshire, UK and all the machines in all the computer clusters were OS X based, most of them being iMacs.

I just finished my degree at this university I have to say, Macs are far outnumbered by Windows machines throughout.

There are small clusters for media students, but Windows machines still dominate there.

rogan
Aug 8, 2011, 07:16 AM
also uses a not so pretty 20" TN panel so the new ones definately filled a hole

paulrbeers
Aug 8, 2011, 07:17 AM
I think everyone has hit the nail on the head here, but I am going to recap:

1. Schools rarely need powerful machines. Most of them are used for surfing the internet, typing courses, and excel. If more is needed (maybe for more advanced art classes) they will order more powerful ones and put them in a special computer lab reserved for art students (or in the art classroom).
2. $999 is the MSRP for these. However, usually there are bulk discounts which means they might even be as cheap as $899. Now you have a $250 difference.
3. Schools have IT departments that can and will swap out the RAM and put 4GB into them when and if needed and do it themselves (for cheaper than Apple's $100 price). Heck when I was in school I was part of the student support team for our IT department. I spent most of my "support team" time swapping memory.

arn
Aug 8, 2011, 07:18 AM
doesn't look like the $999 iMac has thunderbolt:

specs page: http://support.apple.com/kb/SP634

Cost cutting measure I guess.

arn

jonnysods
Aug 8, 2011, 07:20 AM
Wow, a far cry from the eMacs they used to sell!! I have one at my office right now, weighs in at around 50lbs!

striker33
Aug 8, 2011, 07:22 AM
doesn't look like the $999 iMac has thunderbolt:

specs page: http://support.apple.com/kb/SP634

Cost cutting measure I guess.

arn

Or because educational institutes have no use whatsoever for Thunderbolt? ;)

840quadra
Aug 8, 2011, 07:23 AM
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Nice, I'm in for 0 of em!

Giving up quad core, 2gb ram, and a nice chunk of hdd space to save $150 doesn't seem worth it. I realize that might change when you are buying 50 of them, but still...

Also, I wonder why Apple would want their slowest, worst machines to be the ones used in education. It will be the first experience a lot of kids have with a Mac. You'd think they might just offer some extra volume discounts to education on their standard models.

As you hinted, it is likely do to cost v.s. need. I would bet that most average users barely tap into 50% of the capability of their fast systems day to day.

I am not sure how it was in your school, however a majority of computers in my day were used for word processing, spreadsheets, web surfing, research, light photo editing, and even some graphics rendering. If a computer was needed for video editing, heavy photo processing, 3d Rendering, modeling or otherwise, those departments would have dedicated / faster computers for that purpose.

There is no need for a school district to spend $1500+ per computer to fill entire labs, or classrooms when a cheaper alternative exists. I sure as hell don't want to school district I pay taxes for, doing such frivilous spending!!

also uses a not so pretty 20" TN panel so the new ones definately filled a hole

To be fair, not many people can and will be able to tell the difference between a good TN and an IPS display. There are differences, but not enough for most who call themselves 'power users' to pick out without digging deep.

It would be a hard sale for someone to convince me that I need an IPS display to do reports, calculations, web surfing, or similar.

Dagless
Aug 8, 2011, 07:33 AM
I probably would have gone with this if it was 2006 and I was still in university. Bought a 999 iMac back then and wished for a cheaper one (only needed it for typing up docs and developing small 2D games). Even that model was overkill for my needs.

Mavimao
Aug 8, 2011, 07:35 AM
I worked in an elementary school years ago and we replaced the aging Dell computers in the lab with white imacs. At the time, they were really powerful (and probably still in use today) and what did we use them for....?

Tux paint, Photobooth, and Linerider.

These new macs are more than powerful.

macnisse
Aug 8, 2011, 07:36 AM
and FOUR (!!) GB of RAM. Common, Apple, really? 2GB for Lion by default in an iMac? I bought my first iMac in 2007 and it had 2GB.

Agreed, 2 GB is indeed on the (too) low end of the spectrum... :confused:

fireshot91
Aug 8, 2011, 07:37 AM
Regarding the RAM and HDD space saving techniques.

Schools don't need that. Most of their applications/files/etc are stored on servers. At least in my school, most applications other than the ones that come with the computer are stored on a server, and we access it through there. All files are stored on the server. We basically don't even have access to the local filesystem.


Now, RAM? What intensive applications do students run that you wouldn't be fine with 2GB? Unless they're based in the engineering/computer science field, you'd be perfectly fine with 2GB.

winston1236
Aug 8, 2011, 07:44 AM
I love the imac but I would be really disappointed if i was a student and they bought these. Of course it depends on what type of school too but really would prefer mac pro's over a room of low end imacs.

organerito
Aug 8, 2011, 07:44 AM
Apple is trying to sell their leftovers. It is crazy they are trying to make money with schools.
Very classy! :rolleyes:

Digital Skunk
Aug 8, 2011, 07:45 AM
A lot of schools won't require the performance nor will they have power users.

The specs Apple are offering are enough for your average school needs.

The sad part is that most schools, institutions of higher learning, and informed business will want to keep the machines for a lot longer than 2 years. From a consumer standpoint . . . sure, spend $999 now and then spend another grand in 2 years when your machine starts to show age.

In a budget conscience environment like a school or university, where you're spending more for the software anyhow, you can't justify dropping $999 for 2GB of RAM and a dual core chip then try to upgrade to whole new system in a few years.

These machines have to last at least past their warranties if not double that in most situation.

The university I work for has about 40 six year old MacPro towers that they are just now going to put upgrades into. And a whole host of white Intel iMacs that were top-of-the-line 6 years ago that are still kicking. Suggesting that the "basic" user won't need that much power isn't looking at it in the right way at all, and isn't very economical.

agentx
Aug 8, 2011, 07:46 AM
Overall this is a smart move. Most basic Labs need basic machines, why have a $1200 /$1500 Mac when really it is just for Internet, Intranet, Word, Excel etc. and even 2Gb RAM will do the job fine (Bit stingy Apple but no surprise). Hard disk is generally irrelevant as network homes/mobile Homes will be in operation anyway, graphics wise it is fine for task.

Think about it dont need Thunderbolt etc and if you buy 1000 of these they will save $150k not to be sneezed at in these tough times.

My only wish for the iMac would be a lockable slot loading Hard disk carrier as it is a bit of a pain to swap disks out and they have a fairly high failure rate IHMO. Otherwise got to love those iMacs !

dr Dunkel
Aug 8, 2011, 07:46 AM
Arrgh... the fragmentation, it makes my head hurt... :D

the8thark
Aug 8, 2011, 07:58 AM
In my opinion this is not cost cutting. It's selling getting rid of old excess stock cheaply.

840quadra
Aug 8, 2011, 08:01 AM
The sad part is that most schools, institutions of higher learning, and informed business will want to keep the machines for a lot longer than 2 years. From a consumer standpoint . . . sure, spend $999 now and then spend another grand in 2 years when your machine starts to show age.

In a budget conscience environment like a school or university, where you're spending more for the software anyhow, you can't justify dropping $999 for 2GB of RAM and a dual core chip then try to upgrade to whole new system in a few years.

These machines have to last at least past their warranties if not double that in most situation.

The university I work for has about 40 six year old MacPro towers that they are just now going to put upgrades into. And a whole host of white Intel iMacs that were top-of-the-line 6 years ago that are still kicking. Suggesting that the "basic" user won't need that much power isn't looking at it in the right way at all, and isn't very economical.

Well I still do quite a bit of billable work on a G4 Quicksilver tower, and lots of web surfing from a G3 B&W . In both cases, those G3 and G4 machines were base models for their day.

Yes that is extreme when compared to your situation, but it goes to point out that a machine doesn't fail to become useful after 2 years, just because it is a base model. I am sure there are departments in every school that require high end hardware for specific processor / graphics intensive tasks, however, a school holding onto 4+ year old systems (even base models) as general computing systems is still economical in my book. Does your school hand these systems down to departments that don't need the processing power, or do they simply do in place upgrades?

It is also entirely possible that Apple could pull the forced obsolescence card on the Core i3 processor in 3 years too. The recently unsupported Core Duo systems are banned from Lion, but seem to run Windows 7 just fine in most cases. Apple's support practices could have more control on the longevity of these systems, more than the shortcomings of the actual hardware.

interrobang
Aug 8, 2011, 08:01 AM
Overall this is a smart move. Most basic Labs need basic machines, why have a $1200 /$1500 Mac when really it is just for Internet, Intranet, Word, Excel etc. and even 2Gb RAM will do the job fine (Bit stingy Apple but no surprise). Hard disk is generally irrelevant as network homes/mobile Homes will be in operation anyway, graphics wise it is fine for task.

Yeah, universities have a need for "dumb terminals" so that students without laptops (or without their laptops with them) can just check their email and Facebook pages between classes.

I know a place where there are still some G4 and G5 iMacs in use for this purpose. Obviously, with Leopard now unsupported, those need to be upgraded for security reasons.

Bubba Satori
Aug 8, 2011, 08:05 AM
This will send property taxes throught the roof.

"We can't make affordable computers." Steve Jobs

mbrown90
Aug 8, 2011, 08:06 AM
Because they are used to using Windows, they will always use Windows?

$150 difference for a thousand machines is approx $150,000. That's a lot of money.

One of my friends, studied at University of Hertfordshire, UK and all the machines in all the computer clusters were OS X based, most of them being iMacs.

So if the software permits, there could be massive deployment of OSX based iMacs in the next few years in all the major universities in the US as well as the UK.


I study currently at the University of Hertfordshire and we do have many macs, in the library there are about 3 dozen iMacs that are replaced quite often and are of a hight spec, although these models are cheaper we are a Apple Training Facility so get higher discount than most Unis, meaning we can get higher spec iMacs at lower cost. But on a whole these new cheaper education models would not do much good at a university because of the software that is required to run on these machines.

I am studying film and TV and we have a large edit suit running Final Cut Studio and PhotoShop as well as some other software, these machines would be no where near powerful enough for what we do compared to the Mac Pro's we run.
Many people from class have bough iMac's in the last few months and would most likely not buy these lower models and go for the higher spec at the little added cost.

I agree and understand for some educational institutes the saving would be high, but i can not see how with the growing requirements of system for software how these Macs at such a low spec are justifiable for education. These macs would be out of date for use sooner than the next model up resulting in replacing all macs compare the cost of upgrading to the next model that will last longer.

Students such as myself who were introduced to Mac's through education are converted to Mac from PC for the software and ease of use, But also the quality and performance of hardware (seeing that i can do a lot more on mac with ease persuaded me).

laserbeam273
Aug 8, 2011, 08:07 AM
Bad move not having thunderbolt... Apple really should be making every effort possible to make it an industry standard, i.e. stick it on every single machine that they make! Even iPads! (well maybe not but yeah)

Chupa Chupa
Aug 8, 2011, 08:08 AM
I love the imac but I would be really disappointed if i was a student and they bought these. Of course it depends on what type of school too but really would prefer mac pro's over a room of low end imacs.

Sure. I'm sure most kids would enjoy driving a Ferrari when they reach driving age too instead of something more modest.

Seriously, this model is meant for secondary and high school markets -- and for general curriculum courses like math, language, etc. It would be a waste of money to buy MPs where that kind of processing isn't required.

Apple is trying to sell their leftovers. It is crazy they are trying to make money with schools.
Very classy! :rolleyes:

This was never a regular model, so how could it be a "leftover." It was created for educational needs. Since when is an 3Ghz i3 a left over anyway. Also I don't know any company that sells their wares to schools at a loss. Businesses have to make money to pay for employees & satisfy investors. Do you realize that publishers require public libraries to pay full list price for books? Unlike book stores, they get zero discount, the rationale being that many people will read the library copy and not buy their own.

striker33
Aug 8, 2011, 08:10 AM
Bad move not having thunderbolt... Apple really should be making every effort possible to make it an industry standard, i.e. stick it on every single machine that they make! Even iPads! (well maybe not but yeah)

How would giving schools technology that they would never use make it an industry standard?

QCassidy352
Aug 8, 2011, 08:11 AM
Not a vry compelling offering compared to the current low end, but I guess every dollar matters for edu's buying in bulk.

udontno
Aug 8, 2011, 08:11 AM
The sad part is that most schools, institutions of higher learning, and informed business will want to keep the machines for a lot longer than 2 years. From a consumer standpoint . . . sure, spend $999 now and then spend another grand in 2 years when your machine starts to show age.


The sad thing is that those schools who need to replace after two years and will replace after two years will turn around and sell those machines. At my high school they told us before we left last year to get excited because we'd come back to new computers... what we came back to were "new to us" iMacs running (of all things) Windows. One some, the Mac side wasn't even set up for use. On the ones where it was set up... well, sometimes wasn't right with the internet so we couldn't get online... therefore, we were stuck on the Windows side. The machines were slow and definitely put a bad taste in some kids' mouths for Macs. I remember when I was a kid playing with the fruit colored iMacs and the eMacs... They had the Kid Pix software installed for us to play with as a "treat".

iCaleb
Aug 8, 2011, 08:13 AM
Does it come with a wired keyboard and mouse?

I'm sure students would hate having to change batteries.

blackburn
Aug 8, 2011, 08:19 AM
I had the chance to buy an hp workstation from a special deal with the uni. They sold the workstations for the same price that costs them to buy them for them. And in 2008 it was a quad core with 4gb of ram and and dedicated graphics card + lcd +mice + keyboard. And it was way cheaper than that imac.

I think it is way to expensive for the education market.

iSamurai
Aug 8, 2011, 08:20 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

my uni has loads of these. the dells and hps in all libraries and many computer labs got replaced a while ago... and the imacs are loaded with both windows and mac and has an OS selection screen upon log on. Our IT department said they've received overwhelming positive feedback when the macs were introduced :)

Does it come with a wired keyboard and mouse?

I'm sure students would hate having to change batteries.

The problem with the wired mouse at uni is that half the scroll wheels don't work any more due to excessive use... the keyboard's alright though.

toddybody
Aug 8, 2011, 08:20 AM
Why not offer the base retail model for an even lower price point? Apple's cash reserves and lack of philanthropical gestures would merit that...besides, fom a business perspective it makes sense...more teachers and students (including their families) will be exposed to Apple systems than if they were to purchase one independently. iMO, that means more future customers.

ksgant
Aug 8, 2011, 08:20 AM
1. Apple releases product
2. People complain loudly it's not good enough
3. SHOCKING!!!

PCClone
Aug 8, 2011, 08:22 AM
Agreed, 2 GB is indeed on the (too) low end of the spectrum... :confused:

Lion runs fine on my 2006 core 2 duo 20" iMac with 2gigs of RAM.

ade2bee
Aug 8, 2011, 08:28 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

Typical, someone else not thinking of global sales. I have friends in China and have lived in Hong Kong, along with the fact that I have taught and will teach again in the East. The Mac in most School over there is becoming God as well as in the US too ... and with Britain only getting and average in the international standard of pupils education perhaps we should follow suit

Apple are clearly thinking of emerging markets (ha ha emerging, they are already bending over their knee and giving us a tanning)

jclardy
Aug 8, 2011, 08:29 AM
A lot of lab machines and public computers at the library at North Carolina State University are macs.

The 2GB of RAM is kind of lame, but the HDD space won't matter for most universities as most give users network space on the University's servers (So that you don't have to sit down at the same machine every time).

But the 2GB of RAM is easily upgradable by the IT department at a later date, and for a much cheaper price.

The only bad part of this deal is the dual core i3, but it will still be plenty fast for the majority of student tasks.

OneMike
Aug 8, 2011, 08:36 AM
This is a good deal. Schools already get a discount on the base model. Now they get a another lower cost option.

goodcow
Aug 8, 2011, 08:39 AM
The sad part is that most schools, institutions of higher learning, and informed business will want to keep the machines for a lot longer than 2 years. From a consumer standpoint . . . sure, spend $999 now and then spend another grand in 2 years when your machine starts to show age.

These are clearly aimed for K-12, which don't need a lot of power and will be fine four years from now.

These machines have to last at least past their warranties if not double that in most situation.

Are you talking about the standard warranty? What institution orders any hardware without an extended warranty? And Edu AppleCare can be purchased in four or five year blocks.

The university I work for has about 40 six year old MacPro towers that they are just now going to put upgrades into. And a whole host of white Intel iMacs that were top-of-the-line 6 years ago that are still kicking. Suggesting that the "basic" user won't need that much power isn't looking at it in the right way at all, and isn't very economical.

If your budget cycle is every six years, your university needs more funding. Machines should be replaced when their warranties expire, which in Apple's case would be five years, max. We purchase everything in four year cycles where I am.

Kentochan
Aug 8, 2011, 08:40 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I'd love it if we had those at our school. All we get are cheap HP/Dell laptops and desktops from 5 years ago that run on XP. A high school like mine with an IT specialty program should at least invest in good computers.

res1233
Aug 8, 2011, 08:48 AM
1. Apple releases product
2. People complain loudly it's not good enough
3. SHOCKING!!!

As long as it keeps being like that, Apple will keep being Apple. They've always been held to a high standard, especially these last few years.

ericinboston
Aug 8, 2011, 08:59 AM
An insult.

Rather than Apple giving Edu a discount...say 10% off, Apple creates an entirely new marketing campaign to sell stripped down versions of their bottom-of-the-barrel iMac for a whopping $150 off.

Apple has hit a new low with their "take it or leave it" attitude. And Apple wonders why .001% of businesses in the world use Apple computers.

Joe The Dragon
Aug 8, 2011, 09:00 AM
Oops.

some schools may have old software that will not run in lion.

bpaluzzi
Aug 8, 2011, 09:00 AM
Complete junk and an insult.

Rather than Apple giving Edu a discount...say 10% off, Apple creates an entirely new marketing campaign to sell stripped down versions of their bottom-of-the-barrel iMac for a whopping $150 off.

Apple has hit a new low with their "take it or leave it" attitude. And Apple wonders why .001% of businesses in the world use Apple computers.

1 - Apple does give education a discount - both off the normal prices, as well as bulk discounts
2 - "Quietly introduces" = no marketing campaign
3 - The "bottom-of-the-barrel" is $250 off, if you want to be pedantic
4 - Your business estimate is so laughably wrong that it doesn't really require a response, but here it is anyway ;-)

RKilbane20
Aug 8, 2011, 09:09 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

I go to Ohio State and we have separate computer labs for Windows and Macs for your needs.

Glideslope
Aug 8, 2011, 09:10 AM
1 - Apple does give education a discount - both off the normal prices, as well as bulk discounts
2 - "Quietly introduces" = no marketing campaign
3 - The "bottom-of-the-barrel" is $250 off, if you want to be pedantic
4 - Your business estimate is so laughably wrong that it doesn't really require a response, but here it is anyway ;-)

Are you sure the Edu 10% is gone? My Sister IL just used it? Is this for large volume purchases? :apple:

silentnite
Aug 8, 2011, 09:17 AM
This is a great deal, just hoping more schools jump on these deals. My area (Pa.) seems to be in a time warp:D

JAT
Aug 8, 2011, 09:20 AM
I'd be happy with that for work. Probably upgrade the RAM, though. Never understand why Apple won't cater to business in any way.

Chupa Chupa
Aug 8, 2011, 09:26 AM
Does it come with a wired keyboard and mouse?

I'm sure students would hate having to change batteries.

Wired kbd and mouse? In a school. I'm sure they'll be more than wired; they'll be bolted down. :D

rye9
Aug 8, 2011, 09:27 AM
It's why the iBook is also still available for edu.

Is it really? Where? For some reason I need to see this haha

guzhogi
Aug 8, 2011, 09:34 AM
Just checked it out. To get 4 GB of Ram on the educational model will be $90. So for $60 extra, you get faster CPU, bigger hard drive, etc. IMO, the regular 21.5" model available is still a better deal in the long haul.

I work at a middle school and our kids use stuff like iMovie a bit for class. The time we would save with a faster processor would mean a lot to the teachers. It could mean we have to spend less time logging in & out, least time waiting for it to encode movies and more time doing actual research & real work.

I'll admit, with the economy the way it is, people will want to save money, but how much money do we want to save before productivity & quality goes down too much?

hanpa
Aug 8, 2011, 09:40 AM
Lion is barely usable with 2GB. There should be a law against selling an iMac with only 2GB RAM with Lion. Students will get a bad user experience.

MacSince1990
Aug 8, 2011, 09:41 AM
Well, those specs can't be true...
apple upgraded all their apple products in their stores to 4GB RAM for better support of Lion...
So they won't sell it with less than 4 GB of RAM...

The only products with less than 4GB RAM at tho moment are:
The lowest 11" Air (but it has ssd, so there is no problem their) (2 GB)
The lowest Mac mini (2 GB)
And the Mac Pro (3GB) but that's a 377 days old machine, so that doesn't count too...

So actually the only Apple product with less than 4GB RAM is the Mac mini, but almost everyone will upgrade it to 4GB for only 99.99 (or 100$)

You really don't think very well, do you?

I find it a bit perplexing that they'd include a Radeon in this instead of integrated graphics.. could have saved themselves another $50-100... not like students are going to be gaming in the library.

These machines are PLENTY powerful. They're more powerful than the most powerful machine four years ago. (Okay, maybe not an 8-core Mac Pro, but really, does that even count...?)

Yes, 2 GB of RAM is more than enough... most of you seem to really have no idea what is and isn't necessary. And since it's got two cores, and two threads, it's not being split between 4, 8, or 12 cores... just two.

Maybe you guys ought to actually do a little thinking for yourselves before proclaiming all sorts of absolutely ridiculous things. Yes, this may be Apple's bottom of the line machine, but it's still very, very fast. We've progressed quite a bit in the last 10-20 years in computing.... bottom of the line is still more than enough for 80% of computer users.

greenmeanie
Aug 8, 2011, 09:43 AM
Our school seems to be switching to macs.


I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

djstile
Aug 8, 2011, 09:51 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I bought my first Mac last year (MacBook Pro) and I absolutely love it. But I do have to say even a thousand dollars is WAYY more than most (at least most public k-12 schools here in NJ) schools can afford given budgetary constraints and the current economy. If Apple really wants to be competitive, this computer should really be in the $400 range.

davmcn
Aug 8, 2011, 09:55 AM
At the college I attend, they only have iMacs. Most of the students including myself have Macbook Pro's

Skika
Aug 8, 2011, 10:03 AM
At the college I attend, they only have iMacs. Most of the students including myself have Macbook Pro's

Same here. All iMacs and some Mac Pro's. Students all have MBP or MB.

CrackedButter
Aug 8, 2011, 10:14 AM
If this really doesn't have ThunderBolt but it has a display port, what a way to cause confusion.

I wish Apple would stop skimping on ports. They did it with the old MacBooks and the iBooks. Always a generation in firewire behind. No wonder these ports don't take off if Apple themselves; within their niche, are offering it as as option in their product lineup.

Steve121178
Aug 8, 2011, 10:16 AM
It was a lot easier for people trained in Windows XP to use MacOSX than Windows Vista.
It was a lot easier for people trained in Windows Vista to use MacOSX than Windows 7.
It will be a lot easier for people trained in Windows 7 to use MacOSX than Windows 8.

Time to save lots of cost by switching to an OS that doesn't require expensive training.

Is this a serious post? It can't be.

Windows is Windows, that's the beauty of it. How can it be easier to train someone to use a totally different OS to one they are already familiar with?

If you can use Windows XP, then you don't need to be trained how to use Windows Vista or Windows 7. You just have to learn to use some of the newer features which should take about 10 mins.

hayesk
Aug 8, 2011, 10:17 AM
If this really doesn't have ThunderBolt but it has a display port, what a way to cause confusion.

I wish Apple would stop skimping on ports. They did it with the old MacBooks and the iBooks. Always a generation in firewire behind. No wonder these ports don't take off if Apple themselves; within their niche, are offering it as as option in their product lineup.

These are institutional machines, and low-end ones at that. I doubt 99+% of them will never see an external display. People who want external displays tend to want higher spec'ed Macs as well.

hayesk
Aug 8, 2011, 10:18 AM
I'd be happy with that for work. Probably upgrade the RAM, though. Never understand why Apple won't cater to business in any way.

Because "business" wants things that Apple doesn't want to provide. e.g. future product roadmaps and fixed schedules.

Also, if a corporation went to Apple and said, "we want to buy two thousand of those iMacs," I'm sure Apple would oblige.

kwiky
Aug 8, 2011, 10:23 AM
Why is this news? They've had educational only hardware for a long time.

I can see the new $999 iMac right next to the old $899 iMac.

See attached screenshot:

Jaro65
Aug 8, 2011, 10:35 AM
2 GB of RAM in 2011? The schools going for this model are likely going to have to factor in a RAM upgrade over the life of their machines.

linux2mac
Aug 8, 2011, 10:44 AM
I'd be happy with that for work. Probably upgrade the RAM, though. Never understand why Apple won't cater to business in any way.

They are well on their way.

http://www.apple.com/business/

blackpond
Aug 8, 2011, 10:47 AM
The sad part is that most schools, institutions of higher learning, and informed business will want to keep the machines for a lot longer than 2 years. From a consumer standpoint . . . sure, spend $999 now and then spend another grand in 2 years when your machine starts to show age.

In a budget conscience environment like a school or university, where you're spending more for the software anyhow, you can't justify dropping $999 for 2GB of RAM and a dual core chip then try to upgrade to whole new system in a few years.

When did being an informed or budget conscious business become the sad part?

I'm still working on a 5 1/2 year old Pentium D with 2GB of RAM and Windows XP. It earns just as much per hour for me as would a brand new top of the line Mac.

Do I want a new computer? Sure do. Do I need one yet? No.

Chupa Chupa
Aug 8, 2011, 10:59 AM
Is it really? Where? For some reason I need to see this haha

OK, OK, I meant the MacBook. I'm getting old school, so that is where my head was this A.M.

arcite
Aug 8, 2011, 11:07 AM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.


If a library buys 100-200 of these machines for simple database browsing, they don't need to be powerhouses. But they sure will look pretty!

Navdakilla
Aug 8, 2011, 11:12 AM
Hopefully apple can bite a little into the Windows based education system (almost every school I have been to uses only Windows)

iRockSteady
Aug 8, 2011, 11:14 AM
Nice, however more RAM would be nice.

ctdonath
Aug 8, 2011, 11:16 AM
If you're complaining about specs, this product isn't for you.
It's for the "I won't/can't buy anything over $1000" market.

imageWIS
Aug 8, 2011, 11:17 AM
Schools, even universities normally utilize the following (in no particular order):

1) Interent
2) Word Processing
3) Spreadsheets
4) Powerpoint Presentations
5) Email

None of the above are power intensive and can all be easily handled by the iMac for Education.

The only graphics-intensive application a high school or university might use is for engineering / architectural courses when utilizing AutoCAD, CAM, or some other GPU-intensive programs. For those students, the schools tend to buy a small amount of computers which are able to handle the computing workload.

ct2k7
Aug 8, 2011, 11:38 AM
So the universities are wasting money on purchasing Macs and putting the costs on the students. Brilliant. Now I know why my university tuition fees tripled.

smallnshort247
Aug 8, 2011, 11:53 AM
I'm 20 years old now. Back in elementary school, we used those colorful iMacs. Using those machines played a huge part in me switching to Macs after graduation high school.

mixel
Aug 8, 2011, 11:54 AM
A couple of years ago almost the entire campus i was at converted to mid-range iMacs. the only machines that werent using them were the music machines and the linux dedicated ones for some programming courses.

Even the machines that were predominantly used for 3DSMax and games design were dual booting iMacs. the advantages of being able to run anything on an all in one make the mac prices worth it for institutions with computer labs that cater to many different disciplines.

greenmeanie
Aug 8, 2011, 12:01 PM
My wife was upgrading two labs where she works and got the I5 IMAC's down to $50.00 more than this I3.
I rather have the I5 models myself :)

greenmeanie
Aug 8, 2011, 12:04 PM
LOL
Well the high school where my wife works uses BLENDER, PS5, dream weaver, Solid works, Autocad, master cam, painter pro 12, maya, adobe premiere 9,bryce, protools for the new recording studio they just built. I know there is more but can't remember them all.


Schools, even universities normally utilize the following (in no particular order):

1) Interent
2) Word Processing
3) Spreadsheets
4) Powerpoint Presentations
5) Email

None of the above are power intensive and can all be easily handled by the iMac for Education.

The only graphics-intensive application a high school or university might use is for engineering / architectural courses when utilizing AutoCAD, CAM, or some other GPU-intensive programs. For those students, the schools tend to buy a small amount of computers which are able to handle the computing workload.

Julianc7
Aug 8, 2011, 12:17 PM
1) Internet
2) Word Processing
3) Spreadsheets
4) Powerpoint Presentations
5) Email

I think this is what the iPad is designed for!

Also Apple have always had a cheap "off radar" model for schools to purchase.
- invariably not visible on the ed store. Tech geeks on here are so wrapped up in bench marking the minutia - the specs will be fine for most lab deployment.

wordoflife
Aug 8, 2011, 12:25 PM
My whole school has Macs too (even dual bootable in XP).

- HDD not an issue since my school wipes them clean everyday (tells us not to save anything

- RAM not an issue. The computers are so locked down anyways that all you can really do is open Safari and Word.

- Graphics: overkill IMO since schools lock down computers so much, theres hardly any games that can harness the power. You can't even play flash based games on my school's network.

-

greenmeanie
Aug 8, 2011, 12:37 PM
I have been to many schools and they are never locked down because of lack of knowledge and hiring friends.
Nice to see another school run properly.
You should see the Teachers complain because their computers are locked down LOL.
Can you say Union Grievance?


My whole school has Macs too (even dual bootable in XP).

- HDD not an issue since my school wipes them clean everyday (tells us not to save anything

- RAM not an issue. The computers are so locked down anyways that all you can really do is open Safari and Word.

- Graphics: overkill IMO since schools lock down computers so much, theres hardly any games that can harness the power. You can't even play flash based games on my school's network.

-

jbyun04
Aug 8, 2011, 12:54 PM
Towards the end of my Elementary School years iMac just came out. Up until then we used Mac Classic B&W and I always picked the Macs over the PCs.. Not sure why but I guess it's because I wanted to try something different as I had a 486 back home.

Probably that and because for some strange reason they had installed Tomb Raider on ALL of the new iMacs in the computer lab and the teachers really didn't seem to give a crap :o

When I got to Grade 12 though my high school was strangely plagued with eMacs, G4s and iBooks for student use while the teachers got Black Books.

These edu-iMacs are actually perfect for schools.

DrDomVonDoom
Aug 8, 2011, 01:16 PM
This is kind of amazing because here in Ak, our entire education system runs off of Mac infastructure. As far as I can remember, in elementary 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade we had the old Macintosh's, than in 4th, 5th and 6th grade we had newer Macintosh's. but they could get online, I can't remember now that I think of it. I do remember the first time I ever used the internet, NETSCAPE NAVIGATOR! they had us go to whitehouse.gov, Teacher always had the Quadra... We used to sneak on Museum Madness, Numbers Munchers and Oregon Trail.

In middle school we had the gumdrop iMacs, and the computer lab had a bunch of G3's. In high shool we still had the Gumdrops for some time, and they upgraded to the iMac G4's. I remember we used to sneak onto these lan tank games, I never got into it too much.
I also remember when some genius (well he seemed like one at the time) learned how to send messages to mac's around the school. We all had file system for all the kids in the school to keep their work on, but we filled them up with junk games from download.com and the administration told everyone to save their work to cd's because they were gonna wipe the server, lmao. What a job it must have been to be school IT.

As far as I know today, they now have the 20 and 24 inch intels which the borough will probobly run off of for the next half decade.

We had a few dedicated windows machines in the schools, the only time I remember having to use them was when we took a graphics design class and I learned how to use photoshop, and flash.

DrDomVonDoom
Aug 8, 2011, 01:23 PM
What i find equally funny, is I worked with Mac's my entire life, or at least my entire school career. I was always a windows user until I turned 23, now I love Mac's. Hm, weird.

Bregalad
Aug 8, 2011, 01:25 PM
- 3.1GHz Intel Core i3 Dual-Core
- 21.5-inch LCD
- AMD Radeon HD 6750 with 256MB
- 2GB RAM
- 250GB Hard Drive


+School users typically run a small number of concurrent threads so most of the time a 3.1GHz dual core will be just as fast as a 2.5GHz quad core.
+Schools like all-in-one units with easy to clean glass screens.
+Graphics capabilities are solid for school use.

- 2GB of RAM?!? What decade is this? Total dick head move that probably saved Apple less than $8 per unit.

= School labs don't require much storage capacity, but where on earth did Apple find such ancient drives? Maybe when WD acquired Hitachi's drive business they found a warehouse full of those dinosaurs and offered Apple a deal they couldn't refuse.

Schools typically want their computers to have as few I/O capabilities as possible so they would see no value in Thunderbolt.

DrDomVonDoom
Aug 8, 2011, 01:31 PM
+School users typically run a small number of concurrent threads so most of the time a 3.1GHz dual core will be just as fast as a 2.5GHz quad core.
+Schools like all-in-one units with easy to clean glass screens.
+Graphics capabilities are solid for school use.

- 2GB of RAM?!? What decade is this? Total dick head move that probably saved Apple less than $8 per unit.

= School labs don't require much storage capacity, but where on earth did Apple find such ancient drives? Maybe when WD acquired Hitachi's drive business they found a warehouse full of those dinosaurs and offered Apple a deal they couldn't refuse.

Schools typically want their computers to have as few I/O capabilities as possible so they would see no value in Thunderbolt.

Small drives make sense for schools, as schools usually just have a big ol' server for the students to save all their work on, and I believe now a-days they wipe all the computers after they shut off anyway. Didn't used to be like that, you used to be able to save files on a computer, but, kids are a lot smarter now a days.

Bregalad
Aug 8, 2011, 01:34 PM
Schools, even universities normally utilize the following (in no particular order):

1) Interent
2) Word Processing
3) Spreadsheets
4) Powerpoint Presentations
5) Email

None of the above are power intensive and can all be easily handled by the iMac for Education.

The only graphics-intensive application a high school or university might use is for engineering / architectural courses when utilizing AutoCAD, CAM, or some other GPU-intensive programs. For those students, the schools tend to buy a small amount of computers which are able to handle the computing workload.

The iMac for education will handle the needs of most students, but these days even elementary school children are learning to use software that will make use of every bit of CPU and GPU power you throw at it.

My nephew's 6th grade class was introduced to 3D animation in Blender last year.

canucksfan88
Aug 8, 2011, 01:59 PM
seriously people...some people need to take off their "i need the best technology" hat and think about this.

im currently in university so i know this from first hand experience.

for most students, and by most i mean 95% of students use the computer for
1. Facebook/Twitter/Social Media/Forums/Surfing
2. Microsoft Office/Word/PowerPoint/Excel
3. Stats Programs

At this point, you do NOT need anything more than 2 GB of ram.

for the remaining 5% in design or video editing, the specific faculties/programs will have specialized machines that are higher end.

250GB hard drive...well no one ever saves onto the disk drive...because all students have network drive access. So why put something in that NEVER gets used.

im a design student and the computers we use are the old C2D with 2GB ram and they run CS5 well.

In my library and the business school, there are still the White G5s...why you may ask..because they still function for word processing and surfing.

oh and one part of my school still have the old EMACs! Not everyone...let me rephrase that...nobody outside design and video editing students need the best of the best.

people please...think about this logically

gkarris
Aug 8, 2011, 02:26 PM
Nice to see an $999 Apple All-In-One.... a crucial part of Apple's history:

http://youtu.be/nOKE0SiDcjI

YanniDepp
Aug 8, 2011, 02:33 PM
I've skimmed over a few of these comments, and as someone who works for a big college, I believe I can add some insight.

Macs are a lot more common in higher education than you'd think. IT and digital media courses use Macs extensively. We have many labs full of iMacs used by photography, graphic design, arts, and video editing students.

We do indeed expect our machines to last a long time. Typically we buy quite powerful Macs every two years or so. The new machines end up in the video editing labs (where processing power is important), and over the years they're cascaded down.

After two years, the Macs will be moved from the video editing labs to the photography labs. After four years, they'll move to the library, where they're used for general web browsing and word processing. This way, the video labs always get the best machines, and everyone else still gets decent machines.

Educational machines come without Bluetooth (and now Thunderbolt) because they're not used. We really don't want students to be able to transfer things from their phone to our Macs. And we certainly don't want wireless keyboards and mice: they'd go missing very quickly. In fact, a lot of places cable tie all the cables together to prevent people moving / removing / tampering with things. I've even seen education institutions that pour epoxy in the USB ports to permanently disable them and stop students from plugging anything in.

The Mac I currently have is an early 2006, 20-inch Core Duo with 2GB RAM. It's about due for replacement. I'm trying to get one of the 'standard' quad-core 21 inch models rather than this new cut-down dual core. I will have to fight to justify the extra cost. This dual-core might be a decent machine for the next three years, but the quad-core will probably do me for 5 years. Therefore, spending the extra 100 for the quad-core represents tremendous value for money.

macrumorsMaster
Aug 8, 2011, 02:40 PM
Because they are used to using Windows, they will always use Windows?

$150 difference for a thousand machines is approx $150,000. That's a lot of money.


Or they could save even more by buying the refurb imac for $929 with better specs.

$70 savings(plus tax savings) for a 1,000 machines is $70,000 a nice chunk of change!

Apple seems to be getting more like the Grinch with education nowadays. Use to have more off on macbooks....use to give away ipods(now just a $100 off at the appstore. :P

YanniDepp
Aug 8, 2011, 02:42 PM
Or they could save even more by buying the refurb imac for $929 with better specs.

It can be hard to get a large quantity of refurbished machines with identical specs. When they're posted online, they're first come, first served. You might be able to get a dozen at once, but you'd never be able to buy enough to kit out three or four labs.

Small drives make sense for schools, as schools usually just have a big ol' server for the students to save all their work on, and I believe now a-days they wipe all the computers after they shut off anyway. Didn't used to be like that, you used to be able to save files on a computer, but, kids are a lot smarter now a days.

Our macs are protected by Deep Freeze, which is the same software Apple use for their demo machines on display. When they're rebooted, any customisations are wiped and they're restored back to the way we set them up. Students save all their data to their network drive, or to their own USB sticks. Also, we use Microsoft's Live@Edu, so students have a 5GB Skydrive to save files to.

So the universities are wasting money on purchasing Macs and putting the costs on the students. Brilliant. Now I know why my university tuition fees tripled.

This is one of the least constructive comments in this thread. We get a lot of discount. Remember, the price you see in the education store includes VAT. Colleges don't pay VAT.

A lot of courses teach software on Macs. For example, photography, video editing and design. Why? Because that's what students will use when they go out into The Real World. Not teaching these students to use Photoshop or Premiere on a Mac would put them at a huge disadvantage.

What do you suggest? We don't buy Macs? You'd be complaining a lot more if you showed up to Uni and had ancient computers, or no computers at all. I suppose buying new equipment for physics and chemistry labs is also a waste? How about replacing damage caused by vandalism (toilets, lifts etc) - this is quite a serious thing in colleges and universities. Glasgow University has a seven-figure electricity bill every year. Maybe we should just go without electricity to save money?

Apple seems to be getting more like the Grinch with education nowadays. Use to have more off on macbooks....use to give away ipods(now just a $100 off at the appstore. :P

They often used this as a way to get rid of old iPods before new models were released in September.

Ohanmer
Aug 8, 2011, 03:01 PM
These new iMacs may not be that powerful, or much less expensive, but when bought in bulk by Educational Institutes, plenty of money can be saved. Also, many Educational Institutes run all their accounts off a single server, so the iMacs would only have to be powerful enough to run Remote Desktop.

:apple:

spillproof
Aug 8, 2011, 03:02 PM
Interesting. My university just bought 10 cheap-o HP TouchSmarts for quick printing purposes in the library.

Touching is so much easier then a mouse.

Sequin
Aug 8, 2011, 03:18 PM
That's one expensive desktop for being 'low end'.

Michaelgtrusa
Aug 8, 2011, 03:20 PM
Only communist labor can aid this.

gnasher729
Aug 8, 2011, 03:38 PM
Is this a serious post? It can't be.

Windows is Windows, that's the beauty of it. How can it be easier to train someone to use a totally different OS to one they are already familiar with?

If you can use Windows XP, then you don't need to be trained how to use Windows Vista or Windows 7. You just have to learn to use some of the newer features which should take about 10 mins.

My experience is absolutely the opposite. People who bought a laptop with Vista asked me to put Windows on it. (Which meant Windows XP). On the other hand, I've never met anyone who couldn't just use my MacBook, without any help.

lehite
Aug 8, 2011, 03:50 PM
LOL
Well the high school where my wife works uses BLENDER, PS5, dream weaver, Solid works, Autocad, master cam, painter pro 12, maya, adobe premiere 9,bryce, protools for the new recording studio they just built. I know there is more but can't remember them all.

They use Autocad for a recording studio?

CrackedButter
Aug 8, 2011, 03:55 PM
These are institutional machines, and low-end ones at that. I doubt 99+% of them will never see an external display. People who want external displays tend to want higher spec'ed Macs as well.

I think you missed my point, and the topic at hand, it HAS display port, but not Thunderbolt (ThunderBolt is more than just a technology for external displays as well. On the outside they look the same and are contracted the same AND the cabling itself is what allows the bi-directional transfer (aside from another chip in the Mac), so whats the point in the market segmentation (by not including said chip) and what happens when Jimmy brings his ThunderBolt enabled hard drive to Uni and finds out it doesn't work?

Ports that look the same but don't work in the same way. Pointless cost cutting from a company that last week had more money than the US government last week, yeah that makes sense!

Sequin
Aug 8, 2011, 04:04 PM
A lot of courses teach software on Macs. For example, photography, video editing and design. Why? Because that's what students will use when they go out into The Real World. Not teaching these students to use Photoshop or Premiere on a Mac would put them at a huge disadvantage.

I actually don't agree with this. Macs used to be the best for majors in the arts, but today you can do perfectly fine using a Windows computer. I grew up doing web design without a Mac and never had a problem. It doesn't hinder your ability to edit anything. Macs are beautiful computers, but you can do just as well without one and save a lot of money.

MagnusVonMagnum
Aug 8, 2011, 04:35 PM
I guess educational institutions don't need Thunderbolt (or USB3 in lieu of it for that matter). Hell, they could get an i3 Windows PC with USB3 for $299 ($399 with monitor). I don't see this as very competitive. But I'm sure colleges that used Apple before will eat it up anyway. That's what people do. They keep paying Apple to put out mediocre crap.

JAT
Aug 8, 2011, 04:39 PM
They are well on their way.

http://www.apple.com/business/
Please. That's like the App Store, which only came about because customers demanded it. People are actually using iDevices for "work", so Apple threw up a webpage to validate them, do a little more marketing.

I've been a fan a lot longer than you, man. They DO NOT cater to business. And I find it stupid. It's half the reason the world is in this state, and it's the entire reason Apple was in a poor state in the late 90s.* M$ catered to business, catered to IT guys, before we called them IT.

* And this has been the case under all their CEOs. So, it's not just Steve's fault, despite what the 'net will say.

baypharm
Aug 8, 2011, 04:59 PM
Of course, it's only 999. It has an i3 processor....

boonlar
Aug 8, 2011, 07:22 PM
Of course, it's only 999. It has an i3 processor....

ONLY? hahah you can get an i3 PC for like $400. I can't believe schools even consider macs. What a terrible waste of tax dollars! Then they go and complain about their budgets. Government and schools should literally be banned from buying anything from Apple. Not only that but the stuff they buy doesn't last as long as PCs. Remember the white macbooks? Those things literally fell apart and crack into pieces. Huge waste of tax money. Thinkpads on the other hand last for years in the hands of clumsy kids.

Certinfy
Aug 8, 2011, 07:34 PM
Still seems too much. I used to be an assistant teacher while doing a course a few years back and I was with some secondary/high school kids and I took them to a room full of brand new iMacs and besides a few of them most were absolutely clueless about what they were doing or even how to use them, eventually spoke to the main teacher about it and got them all to use W7 laptops instead which all of them found a lot easier. Maybe just a UK thing though but still I have no idea why that school would have spent so much money on those iMacs where as they could have bought new PCs since the ones they had were a few years old besides the laptops that were quite new.

lilo777
Aug 8, 2011, 07:42 PM
I guess educational institutions don't need Thunderbolt (or USB3 in lieu of it for that matter). Hell, they could get an i3 Windows PC with USB3 for $299 ($399 with monitor). I don't see this as very competitive. But I'm sure colleges that used Apple before will eat it up anyway. That's what people do. They keep paying Apple to put out mediocre crap.

Of course, schools can always lay off a couple of teachers to find money for Macs :D

eye
Aug 8, 2011, 07:48 PM
Universities will definitely buy them. Colleges will buy them. Those places are money trees with many many ways to generate revenue. Some private K-12 schools as well.

Public schools? Not many. I'm a teacher and decisions at this moment are not made based on long term success or quality or, unfortunately, educating. Every decision right now is made to save a buck. If it continues this way, well, I'll just say we'll reap what we sow.

lilo777
Aug 8, 2011, 08:06 PM
Universities will definitely buy them. Colleges will buy them. Those places are money trees with many many ways to generate revenue. Some private K-12 schools as well.

Public schools? Not many. I'm a teacher and decisions at this moment are not made based on long term success or quality or, unfortunately, educating. Every decision right now is made to save a buck. If it continues this way, well, I'll just say we'll reap what we sow.

I assume that your pessimism was not caused by schools not buying Macs, right? Because if schools really want to prepare children for business life they have to teach them Windows - that's the OS they will use at work.

eye
Aug 8, 2011, 08:21 PM
I assume that your pessimism was not caused by schools not buying Macs, right? Because if schools really want to prepare children for business life they have to teach them Windows - that's the OS they will use at work.

No, that's not it at all. It's much bigger than computers. But, I'm just saying it won't even be considered by almost all K-12 schools.

Illumination
Aug 8, 2011, 08:28 PM
At my high school, all of the laptops are iBook G4s. The desktops are either newer iMacs, eMacs, or iMac G3s (yes, G3). These iMacs are more than sufficient for education. Why bother purchasing nice computers when they're going to be beaten, abused, and become used chewing gum fields once placed in public schools?

MrNomNoms
Aug 8, 2011, 08:28 PM
I can't see this being popular, bearing in mind that the vast majority of schools and universities, at least here in the UK, are still based around Windows. And the fact that a model with a vastly better processor is only $150 more.

The university I was at was a mixed environment - funny enough a large number of students never knew there were Mac's until signs were put up around the university of the Mac labs being open to everyone. The question isn't whether the universities have or haven't got something but whether there is a demand by the students for something - at the end of the day the equipment chosen in many cases is a reflection of not only the course provided but also what the students prefer using as well.

With that being said I really question the long term viability of large labs of desktops given that the two universities I attended almost every man and his dog had a laptop with the university IT store giving in many cases interest free loans for students linked up to their student allowance and student loans. My last year of university for example the only labs that were really being used were for high end specialty software that cost a tonne of money (engineering, design etc) with most students using their own laptops and hooked up to the campus wide wireless network.

boonlar
Aug 8, 2011, 08:37 PM
My college has Pentium 4 Dell GX280s in the labs and they are perfectly fine. I'm glad my school doesn't throw money away on iMacs or the tuition would be higher.

greenmeanie
Aug 8, 2011, 10:36 PM
Oh so what you're telling us you can't teach unless you have a mac?
Sounds like they need to hire another teacher.

Universities will definitely buy them. Colleges will buy them. Those places are money trees with many many ways to generate revenue. Some private K-12 schools as well.

Public schools? Not many. I'm a teacher and decisions at this moment are not made based on long term success or quality or, unfortunately, educating. Every decision right now is made to save a buck. If it continues this way, well, I'll just say we'll reap what we sow.

ciociosan
Aug 8, 2011, 10:54 PM
i understand the notion of bulk purchases, and the effect that the pricepoint difference has, but this is still sadly underpowered. apple'd be much better off releasing a mac mini with a similar discount. schools can afford macs, but apple's overpriced displays? no way.

applebook
Aug 9, 2011, 01:34 AM
Who's dumb enough to get this over the substantially superior $1149 model? Anyone??? ???? :confused:

applebook
Aug 9, 2011, 01:35 AM
i understand the notion of bulk purchases, and the effect that the pricepoint difference has, but this is still sadly underpowered. apple'd be much better off releasing a mac mini with a similar discount. schools can afford macs, but apple's overpriced displays? no way.

I'd take a Mini over this any day. At least the mini is cute, quiet and transportable.

applebook
Aug 9, 2011, 01:36 AM
Oh so what you're telling us you can't teach unless you have a mac?
Sounds like they need to hire another teacher.

I think that he's implying that students' education will suffer if they have only a Core i3 iMac with a simple, lousy display-port. :cool:

applebook
Aug 9, 2011, 01:38 AM
These new iMacs may not be that powerful, or much less expensive, but when bought in bulk by Educational Institutes, plenty of money can be saved. Also, many Educational Institutes run all their accounts off a single server, so the iMacs would only have to be powerful enough to run Remote Desktop.

:apple:

If these institutions truly prioritized saving money, then they wouldn't order any Macs, or they would get Mac Minis with cheap displays.

eye
Aug 9, 2011, 06:13 AM
Oh so what you're telling us you can't teach unless you have a mac?
Sounds like they need to hire another teacher.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. </sarcasm>

goosnarrggh
Aug 9, 2011, 06:53 AM
These new iMacs may not be that powerful, or much less expensive, but when bought in bulk by Educational Institutes, plenty of money can be saved. Also, many Educational Institutes run all their accounts off a single server, so the iMacs would only have to be powerful enough to run Remote Desktop.

:apple:

You do realize that the starting $999 price point is already assuming that the units will be purchased through institutions in bulk, right? They are only intended for institutional sales, not for individual sale, so there is no such thing as an individual unit list price.

If an institution was only interested in considering hardware specs, then they could get an equivalently-spec'ed Core i3 machine from several Windows-based manufacturers for less than half the price -- before taking volume discounts into account.

Institutions would only seriously consider paying this price if they specifically want to equip some or all of their labs with Mac OS X based PCs instead of Windows-based PCs.

bpaluzzi
Aug 9, 2011, 07:01 AM
You do realize that the starting $999 price point is already assuming that the units will be purchased through institutions in bulk, right? They are only intended for institutional sales, not for individual sale, so there is no such thing as an individual unit list price.

If an institution was only interested in considering hardware specs, then they could get an equivalently-spec'ed Core i3 machine from several Windows-based manufacturers for less than half the price -- before taking volume discounts into account.

Institutions would only seriously consider paying this price if they specifically want to equip some or all of their labs with Mac OS X based PCs instead of Windows-based PCs.

False. These are individual prices. The bulk discount is above and beyond these discounts.

And your last statement assumes that lifespan and resale value aren't important to institutions, which I can assure you is not the case.

MagnusVonMagnum
Aug 9, 2011, 08:04 AM
Universities will definitely buy them. Colleges will buy them. Those places are money trees with many many ways to generate revenue. Some private K-12 schools as well.

Public schools? Not many. I'm a teacher and decisions at this moment are not made based on long term success or quality or, unfortunately, educating. Every decision right now is made to save a buck. If it continues this way, well, I'll just say we'll reap what we sow.

Did you ever go to a public school? Mine was nothing special and we had Apple II (and Atari 800) variants growing up followed shortly by Macs in later grades, especially in the writing and design classes. Macs are known for being heavily nested in education, both traditionally and especially today on college campuses. What in the Universe makes you think a public K-12 wouldn't buy them? The local schools around here waste money every year on all kinds of unnecessary crap and we just keep passing more levies, encouraging them to keep spending like there's no tomorrow (kind of like our government in general, come to think of it). Who needs to learn how to control spending if we just keep giving them more money? They play on our emotions. It's about the kids! No, it's about learning how to live within your means!

maril1111
Aug 9, 2011, 08:13 AM
If these institutions truly prioritized saving money, then they wouldn't order any Macs, or they would get Mac Minis with cheap displays.

Actually I have to disagree with you on this, Mac's generally last longer and get treated better by students as it is generally known that Macs are expensive so in the long run the school are saving money and macs as far as I have noticed tend to need less system care than windows (windows 7 is better at this but there is still room for improvement)

Sackvillenb
Aug 9, 2011, 09:59 AM
Although this is good, in general.... $999 for 2gb ram... classic Apple douche move...

Digital Skunk
Aug 11, 2011, 08:00 AM
...but it goes to point out that a machine doesn't fail to become useful after 2 years, just because it is a base model.

I agree! The point of the post was to point justs that out. There's no reason for an institution to pay $1000 for specs that aren't going to last too much longer in the market. There are better options out there for EDU customers. The current model is a better choice.

These are clearly aimed for K-12, which don't need a lot of power and will be fine four years from now.

Simply not true for everyone, and again, that school will be paying more money to upgrade long before they get to that 4 year mark. At that price Apple should just send them to the current model for $150 more.

Are you talking about the standard warranty? What institution orders any hardware without an extended warranty? And Edu AppleCare can be purchased in four or five year blocks.

Three years period, anyone paying for five years is wasting money in the tech world. An institution is better off repairing machines on a case by case basis after three years. Out of the 40 towers we have we've only just replaced a GPU after 6 years.

If your budget cycle is every six years, your university needs more funding. Machines should be replaced when their warranties expire, which in Apple's case would be five years, max. We purchase everything in four year cycles where I am.

Budget cycle isn't every six years, never said that. Machine life is at six years and the Mac Pros are still strong. Machines don't need to be replaced when their warranties are up if the institution purchases correctly. The fine arts department upgraded from single core quick silvers after 10 years of service. Our department still has 8 year old G5s in service. The Intels will last another 4 years guaranteed.

The other thing to consider for us though, is that we can't spend millions on towers alone. We're production oriented, and the small tv studio set the school back 1.2 million. dropping half a million on towers every four years would be reckless for us.

When did being an informed or budget conscious business become the sad part?

Don't know where I said that, but I might have been typing too fast.

I'm still working on a 5 1/2 year old Pentium D with 2GB of RAM and Windows XP. It earns just as much per hour for me as would a brand new top of the line Mac.

For you sure! Not criticizing, but we have to remember where I was quoting from.

Do I want a new computer? Sure do. Do I need one yet? No.

You have the luxury, as do most users. The quote was about EDU institutions spending $1000 for a grossly under-spec'd machine, which is a bad choice given how long the machine should last them.

sjwk
Aug 12, 2011, 05:51 AM
Ug, this is absolutely not worth considering in the UK. Unless they've made a huge mistake with the pricing.

This has just shown up on the UK HE store priced at 848. *31* cheaper than the 'standard' entry level 21" model.

Yes. 31 saving to go from quad core i5 to dual core i3, 4Gb down to 2Gb, 500Gb down to 250Gb and lose the Thunderbolt.

I was expecting this to come in at around 700.
I think I'll drop a line to our account manager to check, but at that price I can't see anyone in the UK wanting to get one of these.

Steve.

Hyper-X
Aug 12, 2011, 06:21 AM
This package doesn't look like any real deal to me. It looks more like the result of Apple slapping stuff together to achieve a certain price point and the ability of the institution to say "yeah it's an Apple computer".

Digital Skunk
Aug 12, 2011, 07:18 AM
This package doesn't look like any real deal to me. It looks more like the result of Apple slapping stuff together to achieve a certain price point and the ability of the institution to say "yeah it's an Apple computer".

Exactly. I see it as Apple having left over C2Ds and parts and just needing to clear inventory.

They still have the iMac with the previous design on sale for a not so good price too.

sjwk
Aug 12, 2011, 08:36 AM
I think I'll drop a line to our account manager to check, but at that price I can't see anyone in the UK wanting to get one of these.

Our account manager has confirmed that the UK price on these is not a mistake :(

Steve.

Steve121178
Aug 12, 2011, 09:10 AM
Our account manager has confirmed that the UK price on these is not a mistake :(

Steve.

lol! Amazing. I wonder how many they sell at that price? :confused:

sjwk
Aug 12, 2011, 09:32 AM
lol! Amazing. I wonder how many they sell at that price? :confused:

I'd be surprised if they sold one.

Steve.

imahawki
Aug 13, 2011, 10:28 AM
As has been posted already, actual educational institutions won't pay THAT price. They'll negotiate bulk purchases or work through a purchasing agent who manages the technology purchases/lifecycle management for multiple school districts, purchasing thousands of units at a time.

Luap
Aug 13, 2011, 10:31 AM
Although this is good, in general.... $999 for 2gb ram... classic Apple douche move...

$75bn in the bank.. Douches have that kind of money, right?

AppleTech22
Aug 13, 2011, 06:22 PM
This is really going to help out the bulk buyers and students

MagnusVonMagnum
Aug 13, 2011, 07:00 PM
$75bn in the bank.. Douches have that kind of money, right?

Don't confuse greed and money with greatness.

davedude
Aug 13, 2011, 11:27 PM
Don't confuse greed and money with greatness.

This is going in my sig.

imahawki
Aug 14, 2011, 07:55 AM
Don't confuse success and money with greed.

davedude
Aug 14, 2011, 09:59 AM
Don't confuse success and money with greed.

Skimping on technology and charging essentially the same price is definitely greed.

MagnusVonMagnum
Aug 14, 2011, 03:21 PM
Don't confuse success and money with greed.

It makes no difference. Making money successfully doesn't make one great in my book. It may make one rich, but it demonstrates no virtues, what-so-ever. Whomever called it a 'douche move' was clearly referring to the lack of value in the $999 iMac. Someone stating that because Apple makes lots of money doesn't make that 'move' any more valuable. Judge actions on their own, not as part of a whole or it leads to fallacy of logic. Otherwise, one might assume Vista is a great OS because Microsoft has lots of money. I don't know of many people that think Vista wasn't a 'bad move'. Money doesn't make one right any more than might does.