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MacRumors
Aug 8, 2011, 05:37 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/08/apple-releases-utility-to-create-lion-recovery-usb-key/)


Apple today released Lion Recovery Disk Assistant (http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1433), a utility that lets users create a Lion recovery partition (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html#lionrecovery) on an external drive or USB key. Lion Recovery lets users "repair disks or reinstall OS X Lion without the need for a physical disc."

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/08/Lion-Recovery-Disk-Assistant.jpg


To create an external Lion Recovery, download the Lion Recovery Disk Assistant application. Insert an external drive, launch the Lion Recovery Disk Assistant, select the drive where you would like to install, and follow the on screen instructions.

When the Lion Recovery Disk Assistant completes, the new partition will not be visible in the Finder or Disk Utility. To access Lion Recovery, reboot the computer while holding the Option key. Select Recovery HD from the Startup Manager.Lion Recovery Disk Assistant can be downloaded from Apple's support website (http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1433).

Apple's knowledge base article (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4848) about the utility notes that the partition it creates has all the same capabilities as the Lion Recovery that is installed during a Lion installation. However, this partition could be used in the event a user can't start their computer from the Recovery partition or if the hard drive is replaced.
[Users can] reinstall Lion, repair the disk using Disk Utility, restore from a Time Machine backup, or browse the web with Safari. This drive can be used in the event you cannot start your computer with the built-in Recovery HD, or you have replaced the hard drive with a new one that does not have Mac OS X installed.The document has two final notes:
- If the computer shipped with Lion, the external recovery drive can only be used with the system that created it.

- If the system was upgraded from Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard to Lion, the external recovery drive can be used with other systems that were upgraded from Snow Leopard to Lion.We had previously reported (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/21/lion-clean-install-requires-snow-leopard-disk/) that in order to do a clean install of Lion, Snow Leopard would need to be installed first. With this recovery partition creator, there is now an official path to perform a clean install without Snow Leopard. Also, this would seem to make the unofficial Lion boot disk creator (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/) unnecessary.

Article Link: Apple Releases Utility to Create Lion Recovery USB Key (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/08/apple-releases-utility-to-create-lion-recovery-usb-key/)



fysh3
Aug 8, 2011, 05:41 PM
is this the same code as the 'other one'?

PJMAN2952
Aug 8, 2011, 05:46 PM
is this the same code as the 'other one'?


I all ready made a cd for os x lion. but the re install is also in your recovery hd.

justinfreid
Aug 8, 2011, 05:46 PM
I'm happy and impressed that Apple released this utility.
The utility's notes don't appear to be complete, though: if it can be used on a new hard drive, why does it matter what type of Lion install you're creating it from?

I've dropped it in my Utilities folder for good measure.

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 05:47 PM
Thanks Apple.

But, it would have been nice for this to have been announced prior to all the whining that occurred about the lack of physical media options.

Cynicalone
Aug 8, 2011, 05:47 PM
Some screenshots of making a USB disk.

298174

298175

298176

ziggyonice
Aug 8, 2011, 05:48 PM
Thank God.

(And Steve.)

devianter
Aug 8, 2011, 05:48 PM
Happy and impressed that Apple released this utility.
The utility's notes don't appear to be complete, though: if it can be used on a new hard drive, why does it matter what type of Lion install you're creating it from?

no idea, but the interesting thing is that if you press option while starting your mac and choose recovery hd (which is built in lion, not the one you create with this tool) and then choose something like "reinstall lion" or "restore my mac" or something like that, it asks you for apple id. at least it did with GM, not sure if it does so now.

wordoflife
Aug 8, 2011, 05:48 PM
This is great.
At first I was really against *not* having Lion on a disk, but it appears they've hit every angle. (redownloadable Lion, new EFI feature in Macs to download Lion with HDD, Recovery tool, HDD partition, USB keys ...)

devianter
Aug 8, 2011, 05:49 PM
Thanks Apple.

But, it would have been nice for this to have been announced prior to all the whining that occurred about the lack of physical media options.

they did it because of all the whining i guess, lol.

randomrazr
Aug 8, 2011, 05:49 PM
about freakin time LOL

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 05:49 PM
Happy and impressed that Apple released this utility.
The utility's notes don't appear to be complete, though: if it can be used on a new hard drive, why does it matter what type of Lion install you're creating it from?

The OS install disks that came with Macs running previous versions of OS X have the same limitations as the recovery partition in Macs that come with Lion.

The OEM and retail versions of OS X are different somehow.

milo
Aug 8, 2011, 05:50 PM
Funny, that's EXACTLY what I've been saying for months that apple should do.

Really, was that so hard? I don't get why it wasn't just ready in time for release, but announced well ahead of time.

JS77
Aug 8, 2011, 05:51 PM
This is great.
At first I was really against *not* having Lion on a disk, but it appears they've hit every angle. (redownloadable Lion, new EFI feature in Macs to download Lion with HDD, Recovery tool, HDD partition, USB keys ...)

Yeah? All that hassle and they could have just released it on DVD in the first place (alongside the App Store) :rolleyes:

andylyon
Aug 8, 2011, 05:51 PM
I've dropped it in my Utilities folder for good measure.

Snap.

Does anyone know the minimum size the USB drive needs to be? I'm guessing 8GB but can anyone confirm?

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 05:51 PM
Also, this would seem to make the unofficial Lion boot disk creator (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/) unnecessary.


I would tend to disagree - every time you'd need to install you'd have to redownload the almost 4 GB, correct?

It would have been much nicer if this utility would let you select either making a stand-alone USB/DVD or if you just wanted to have the recovery disk. I would love to not have to use my internet connection every time I replace the HD (had to do it last weekend for my fiance's computer, and doing it this week for my new SSD).

WardC
Aug 8, 2011, 05:51 PM
Now how do you make a Lion Install Disk (containing the full ~3.74GB of Lion)???

This is a recovery partition disk, NOT a full Lion install disk.

I get the idea that in order to perform a Lion clean install, you would need a dedicated internet connection to re-download the full 3.74GB of Lion. I would like to be able to make a DVD install or USB install of the Lion installer.

fysh3
Aug 8, 2011, 05:52 PM
Thank God.

(And Steve.)

Steve is not a god

Stridder44
Aug 8, 2011, 05:53 PM
AWESOME!

Now if only the official Windows 7 USB/DVD Download Tool (http://download.cnet.com/Windows-7-USB-DVD-Download-Tool/3000-18513_4-10972600.html) would work as well as this (for Boot Camp purposes). Every time I've tried to use it, the utility would give me an error saying the .iso is bad, despite having downloaded it off MSDNAA. Maybe I can finally ditch my optical drive for good.

chilibball
Aug 8, 2011, 05:53 PM
Now how do you make a Lion Install Disk (containing the full ~3.74GB of Lion)???

This is a recovery partition disk, NOT a full Lion install disk.

I get the idea that in order to perform a Lion clean install, you would need a dedicated internet connection to re-download the full 3.74GB of Lion. I would like to be able to make a DVD install or USB install of the Lion installer.

I don't think its 34 GB. I think the installer is around 4GB and the recovery installer was able to copy what it needed to copy onto a 4GB flash drive.

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 05:53 PM
they did it because of all the whining i guess, lol.

Most likely.

I would tend to disagree - every time you'd need to install you'd have to redownload the almost 4 GB, correct?

No download necessary. It uses the recovery partition to create the USB recovery image.

EDIT: Unless the recovery image is not a full installer, which is possible.

milo
Aug 8, 2011, 05:54 PM
It would have been much nicer if this utility would let you select either making a stand-alone USB/DVD or if you just wanted to have the recovery disk. I would love to not have to use my internet connection every time I replace the HD (had to do it last weekend for my fiance's computer, and doing it this week for my new SSD).

Amen to that, this is a step in the right direction but it would still be much better to also have the option to include the install file on the recovery disk.

Can someone confirm that this is just a boot recovery and it requires downloading the whole 4 gigs again?

podsorcerer09
Aug 8, 2011, 05:55 PM
Now how do you make a Lion Install Disk (containing the full ~3.74GB of Lion)???

This is a recovery partition disk, NOT a full Lion install disk.

I get the idea that in order to perform a Lion clean install, you would need a dedicated internet connection to re-download the full 3.74GB of Lion. I would like to be able to make a DVD install or USB install of the Lion installer.

Lion is only 4 GB not 34 GB. That would be gigantic! It's been covered but here's the link to a utility that can do what you want. http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/

KiraDouji
Aug 8, 2011, 05:55 PM
The OS install disks that came with Macs running previous versions of OS X have the same limitations as the recovery partition in Macs that come with Lion.

The OEM and retail versions of OS X are different somehow.

There's not a lot of "somehow" here.

Recovery disks that come with Macs only have the drivers for that mac.

Retail Disks have the drivers for every mac that can upgrade to that OS as of the point release when the disk was made.

Thus, it's usually best to make a recovery drive off the retail version.

:apple:

podsorcerer09
Aug 8, 2011, 05:57 PM
Most likely.



No download necessary. It uses the recovery partition to create the USB recovery image.

The recovery partition does the download for you. In the support article, it states that you need a minimum of 1 GB of space on the drive, indicating that it isn't a full install, same way the current recovery partition is. When you select install mac os x it goes out and grabs the file from apple's servers and then copies those onto the disk, then procedes with the install. In order for this to work you have to be hooked up to the internet.

KillerTree
Aug 8, 2011, 05:57 PM
Steve is not a god


He never said he was a God.

mogzieee
Aug 8, 2011, 05:59 PM
would it not just be easier to clean install snow leopard on disc? then re-download and install lion? :confused:

WhoDaKat
Aug 8, 2011, 06:00 PM
Thanks Apple.

But, it would have been nice for this to have been announced prior to all the whining that occurred about the lack of physical media options.

Apple does't talk, their products do. One of the few corporations that act this way.

What would have been nice, is for everyone that whined in post after post about clean installs, and no physical media to have taken a chill pill and at least wait until they get screwed to complain about getting screwed.

As if Apple would have required you to install a previous operating system prior to the new one they want you to install. I can see the Microsoft commercials now...

randomrazr
Aug 8, 2011, 06:00 PM
when u set up a usb flash drive with this, can u update other macs from snow lepoerd to lion?

Krevnik
Aug 8, 2011, 06:01 PM
No download necessary. It uses the recovery partition to create the USB recovery image.

EDIT: Unless the recovery image is not a full installer, which is possible.

Correct, the recovery image is a bootable toolkit. It connects to the internet to pull down everything else.

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 06:01 PM
Recovery disks that come with Macs only have the drivers for that mac.

Retail Disks have the drivers for every mac that can upgrade to that OS as of the point release when the disk was made.

I thought that this was how this was accomplished but wasn't exactly sure so I didn't want to state that was the reason.

Thanks for clarifying.

The recovery partition does the download for you. In the support article, it states that you need a minimum of 1 GB of space on the drive, indicating that it isn't a full install, same way the current recovery partition is. When you select install mac os x it goes out and grabs the file from apple's servers and then copies those onto the disk, then procedes with the install. In order for this to work you have to be hooked up to the internet.

Ok. Wasn't sure about this. Thanks.

WhoDaKat
Aug 8, 2011, 06:04 PM
I would tend to disagree - every time you'd need to install you'd have to redownload the almost 4 GB, correct?

It would have been much nicer if this utility would let you select either making a stand-alone USB/DVD or if you just wanted to have the recovery disk. I would love to not have to use my internet connection every time I replace the HD (had to do it last weekend for my fiance's computer, and doing it this week for my new SSD).

Just put the install.esd some where.

This just in, Apple is giving away a million dollars to any one that calls up and asks for it. Commence whining about the bad hold music and the length of time it took them to send you your money.

42streetsdown
Aug 8, 2011, 06:05 PM
This is the exact same thing as copying your lion recovery partition... It isn't a full install disk, and you have to redownload Lion every time you use it.

Snap.

Does anyone know the minimum size the USB drive needs to be? I'm guessing 8GB but can anyone confirm?

I makes a recovery disk that is like 700 megabytes. So you don't need a big disk.


when u set up a usb flash drive with this, can u update other macs from snow lepoerd to lion?

You can if you've purchased Lion on the AppStore.

swingerofbirch
Aug 8, 2011, 06:06 PM
I am running 10.6.8 and I am planning to update to Lion at the same time I install a new (blank) hard drive in my MBP. I am wondering if I can download Lion on my current internal drive but not install it and once I seat the new drive in the MBP install Lion on it using this recovery drive, given that Apple should see I already paid for it. I also wonder if it would work if I purchase Lion from the App Store but don't complete the download on the current internal drive.

scottsjack
Aug 8, 2011, 06:09 PM
I'll just take a traditional DVD with OS 10.7.3 on it. That'll solve a lot of problems!

redsteven
Aug 8, 2011, 06:12 PM
The recovery partition does the download for you. In the support article, it states that you need a minimum of 1 GB of space on the drive, indicating that it isn't a full install, same way the current recovery partition is. When you select install mac os x it goes out and grabs the file from apple's servers and then copies those onto the disk, then procedes with the install. In order for this to work you have to be hooked up to the internet.

I'll probably stick to making my own manual copy of the installer on an external drive then, so I won't be dependent on a download

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 06:12 PM
I am running 10.6.8 and I am planning to update to Lion at the same time I install a new (blank) hard drive in my MBP. I am wondering if I can download Lion on my current internal drive but not install it and once I seat the new drive in the MBP install Lion on it using this recovery drive, given that Apple should see I already paid for it. I also wonder if it would work if I purchase Lion from the App Store but don't complete the download on the current internal drive.

The following would better apply to what you are tying to do.

As posted by Egg Freckles, this method should work in the final retail release of Lion:

- Once Lion is released, purchase and download it from the Mac App Store.

- Locate the OS X Lion installer and right-click on it. Select 'Show Package Contents'.

- Inside the 'Contents' folder, there is a 'SharedSupport' folder. Inside that is the Lion Installer. It's called 'InstallESD.dmg".

- Copy 'InstallESD.dmg' to the Desktop by clicking and dragging it while holding down the Option-key. You should see a little green plus icon if you did it right.

- Open Disk Utility. Head to the Go menu in the Finder and select 'Utilities'. Disk Utility should be in there.

- Click the burn button.

- Select 'InstallESD.dmg' from the Desktop, insert a blank 4.7GB DVD and wait. Once it's finished, you'll have a shiny new Lion install DVD.

You can now install Lion on whatever machines you like, just as if you'd purchased the install disc from your local Apple Store. Lion is expected to launch on the Mac App Store this week.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:12 PM
Now how do you make a Lion Install Disk (containing the full ~3.74GB of Lion)???

This is a recovery partition disk, NOT a full Lion install disk.

I get the idea that in order to perform a Lion clean install, you would need a dedicated internet connection to re-download the full 3.74GB of Lion. I would like to be able to make a DVD install or USB install of the Lion installer.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/

Gamoe
Aug 8, 2011, 06:13 PM
I already had to create a Recovery DVD using the unofficial method prior to this because of some issues that needed repairing by Disk Utility. (The DVD was extraordinarily slow, BTW. I certainly recommend a flash drive over a DVD any day.) So, it's nice that Apple finally released this. (Though this should have been out since Day 1, of course.)

iZac
Aug 8, 2011, 06:13 PM
For some reason, this feels like it has undertones of the great Bootcamp battle of '06.

Community derides Apples hardline stance and creates its own solutions to fix it.

Apple realises this will open the gates for the everyman to try it themselves and potentially break their machine.

Apple retroactively releases their own official solution and look like saviours.

Frosties
Aug 8, 2011, 06:14 PM
I am running 10.6.8 and I am planning to update to Lion at the same time I install a new (blank) hard drive in my MBP. I am wondering if I can download Lion on my current internal drive but not install it and once I seat the new drive in the MBP install Lion on it using this recovery drive, given that Apple should see I already paid for it. I also wonder if it would work if I purchase Lion from the App Store but don't complete the download on the current internal drive.

Just follow the earlier guide to do a full usb Lion install drive if you already have it on your hard drive.

robertcoogan
Aug 8, 2011, 06:14 PM
Think Balmer will allow this for Windows?

This he'll sell the next version for $30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ;)

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:15 PM
Most likely.



No download necessary. It uses the recovery partition to create the USB recovery image.

EDIT: Unless the recovery image is not a full installer, which is possible.

The recovery partition, from what I've seen, just gives you the ability to boot into a version where you can run utilities, or, to redownload and reinstall if needed. I don't think 700mb that the partition uses has the full version of Lion.

EDIT: Saw that multiple people posted this many times while I was waiting for my proxy to post the message. Sorry for the dupes.

zorinlynx
Aug 8, 2011, 06:17 PM
This is a step in the right direction, but still flawed, because it has silly unnecessary restrictions on where you can use the recovery USB disk!

A universal Lion boot USB drive would be awesome in an enterprise environment.

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 06:18 PM
The recovery partition, from what I've seen, just gives you the ability to boot into a version where you can run utilities, or, to redownload and reinstall if needed. I don't think 700mb that the partition uses has the full version of Lion.

Thanks, but it has already been covered.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139722&postcount=25

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139747&postcount=30

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:19 PM
Just put the install.esd some where.

This just in, Apple is giving away a million dollars to any one that calls up and asks for it. Commence whining about the bad hold music and the length of time it took them to send you your money.

You know the attitude isn't called for.

I was merely saying what would be nice for Apple to do. Instead of making me save off a file that's not "supported" by Apple. Because god knows, if Apple and Jobs don't bless it and you f something up, they will void your warranty.:rolleyes:

All I was trying to say was that instead of me having to do it the hard way, they should have let you have the option to do it. Just like hiding your Library folder. I should get to pick.

andreiru
Aug 8, 2011, 06:19 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; ru-ru) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

If only I had this a day or two earlier...

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:20 PM
Thanks, but it has already been covered.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139722&postcount=25

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139747&postcount=30

Saw that, apologized for it. Slow internet connection/proxy here.

repeters
Aug 8, 2011, 06:20 PM
This application simply creates a recovery partition. You still need to download the system when and if it is required. As far as I'm concerned this is useless since I am frequently in locations where a fast internet connection is not available.

Follow the link to the Apple site for more information.

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:23 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; ru-ru) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

If only I had this a day or two earlier...

I hear that. Imagine my ire at finding out that after installing Lion, it deletes your download image... I always save off my ISO/DMG files that are in the sizes of gigs in order to speed-load whenever I need to reformat or reinstall any of my computers... I had to download the whole thing over again last night and for some reason the internet or Apple's servers were overloaded. It took me 4 hours to DL the image where it only took me 30 minutes the first time. I couldn't image having to do this multiple times for multiple computers... Imagine if you're in the corporate environment and need to image all these PCs? I'm sure they all did the unofficial boot CD, but still...

arkmannj
Aug 8, 2011, 06:23 PM
Its great that apple has released this little app, but in my humble opinion this is functionality that should just be built right into the Disk Utility App. Hopefully this is just intended as a quick solution to get people to simmer down and hopefully one of Apple's upcoming point releases (10.7.1, etc...) will just update Disk Utility with this functionality.

(also would be nice if it would be able to make a full install USB, not just a utility/partition to have to download Lion again.)

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 06:24 PM
A universal Lion boot USB drive would be awesome in an enterprise environment.

This may be adaptable to work with USB.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/

Because god knows, if Apple and Jobs don't bless it and you f something up, they will void your warranty.:rolleyes:

I doubt an OS software installation issue would void your warranty.

res1233
Aug 8, 2011, 06:26 PM
Apple should really have given us the choice for a full recovery partition or the internet-connected one that is currently default. I'd gladly give up 4GB of space for a full recovery partition.

MilkMan4
Aug 8, 2011, 06:27 PM
ok can anyone help me?!

i did this little thing, and i put it on my 4gb flash drive that had some other files of mine on it. after i did it, my mac would not read the flash drive, and then i saw that on the apple site it said it would only show up when you restart and hold command. and when i plug it into my windows computer, it says it is not formatted, and that if i format it, all data will be erased. So is there any way i can get into my flash drive and get this lion thing off of it so i can have my files back?!

ouimetnick
Aug 8, 2011, 06:27 PM
With our reading the entire thread, this method can't replace the unofficial method. This method supposedly downloads a FRESH copy of Lion (so you need internet access) The unoffiial method has the FULL version of Lion, so installing it doesn't require internet access. Funny how it said downloading additional components during the installation (I did a fresh install) I wasn't connected to wifi, so it had no internet access, so it can't download.

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 06:28 PM
EDIT: Saw that multiple people posted this many times while I was waiting for my proxy to post the message. Sorry for the dupes.

No problem.

Why do you use a proxy?

What proxy do you use?

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:28 PM
I doubt an OS software installation issue would void your warranty.

You mean like Jail Breaking? It's only software, too... Just saying.

Most people don't realize that if you don't use Apple's way, they don't have to support it. I'm not saying they won't, but they don't have to contractually.

That includes upgrading your memory (or it did on the unibody Macbook's back in 2007) or your hard drive.

Just saying.

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:29 PM
No problem.

Why do you use a proxy?

What proxy do you use?

Work computer/internet.

Not sure of the proxy since I'm not in the tech department. But I do know they route all of the internet through the WAN pipe coming to this campus, down to the mother campus, which then translates out through the internet. So not only does the pipe I'm on carry the internet, but also all of the corporate LAN traffic. Guess which one gets prioritized? :)

justinfreid
Aug 8, 2011, 06:31 PM
Thanks Apple.

But, it would have been nice for this to have been announced prior to all the whining that occurred about the lack of physical media options.

It may have happened because of all the whining.

Frosties
Aug 8, 2011, 06:31 PM
This is false!

"We had previously reported that in order to do a clean install of Lion, Snow Leopard would need to be installed first. With this recovery partition creator, there is now an official path to perform a clean install without Snow Leopard. Also, this would seem to make the unofficial Lion boot disk creator unnecessary."

You still HAVE to download the 4GB install file from the internet with this small boot disc making the unofficial boot disc with full install file necessary still.

iFanaddic
Aug 8, 2011, 06:34 PM
So if one's got lion on one computer, he or she could theoretically run this on from they're lion computer and install it on all their snow leopard computers? That seems a bit odd from apple to make it so easy for everyone to get lion.

citi
Aug 8, 2011, 06:35 PM
I am running 10.6.8 and I am planning to update to Lion at the same time I install a new (blank) hard drive in my MBP. I am wondering if I can download Lion on my current internal drive but not install it and once I seat the new drive in the MBP install Lion on it using this recovery drive, given that Apple should see I already paid for it. I also wonder if it would work if I purchase Lion from the App Store but don't complete the download on the current internal drive.

Or, you can clone your 10.6.8 drive to the new drive now and then perform the install when you move it over.

Apple doesn't care where you put the OS as long as you use the same Apple ID, it will say install under purchased apps.

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:37 PM
This is false!

"We had previously reported that in order to do a clean install of Lion, Snow Leopard would need to be installed first. With this recovery partition creator, there is now an official path to perform a clean install without Snow Leopard. Also, this would seem to make the unofficial Lion boot disk creator unnecessary."

You still HAVE to download the 4GB install file from the internet with this small boot disc making the unofficial boot disc with full install file necessary still.

That's not quite true. The recovery partition will download and launch the install for you, which still makes it a clean install. You just need to be in range of internet, and, hopefully, fast internet.

res1233
Aug 8, 2011, 06:37 PM
ok can anyone help me?!

i did this little thing, and i put it on my 4gb flash drive that had some other files of mine on it. after i did it, my mac would not read the flash drive, and then i saw that on the apple site it said it would only show up when you restart and hold command. and when i plug it into my windows computer, it says it is not formatted, and that if i format it, all data will be erased. So is there any way i can get into my flash drive and get this lion thing off of it so i can have my files back?!

Your data is gone. The warning said it would erase all the date on the drive, you should have taken it to heart. ;) Your only hope is to get a data recovery utility, or bring it to a professional if the files are important. I'd advise against the utility because those things can be dangerous for people who don't read warnings.

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:38 PM
So if one's got lion on one computer, he or she could theoretically run this on from they're lion computer and install it on all their snow leopard computers? That seems a bit odd from apple to make it so easy for everyone to get lion.

Actually, I think MacRumors.com had a post about this kind of activity being specifically allowed in the software agreement. I'll try to find the link unless someone else can beat me to it.

Tozzi
Aug 8, 2011, 06:39 PM
Finally, they've seen the light again, it seems.
Now let's hope they fix all the other Lion annoyances and bugs soonish and I'll be a happy Apple fanboy once again.

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 06:39 PM
I doubt an OS software installation issue would void your warranty.

You mean like Jail Breaking? It's only software, too... Just saying.

Jailbreaking is not reinstalling the OS. Beyond that, most jailbreaks are 100% reversible.

That includes upgrading your memory (or it did on the unibody Macbook's back in 2007) or your hard drive.

Machines that are defined as having user serviceable memory and drives are still under warranty even if the user upgrades.

ok can anyone help me?!

i did this little thing, and i put it on my 4gb flash drive that had some other files of mine on it. after i did it, my mac would not read the flash drive, and then i saw that on the apple site it said it would only show up when you restart and hold command. and when i plug it into my windows computer, it says it is not formatted, and that if i format it, all data will be erased. So is there any way i can get into my flash drive and get this lion thing off of it so i can have my files back?!

The files are most likely already lost due to the USB being reformatted when converted to a Lion recovery drive. Sorry.

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:40 PM
Its great that apple has released this little app, but in my humble opinion this is functionality that should just be built right into the Disk Utility App. Hopefully this is just intended as a quick solution to get people to simmer down and hopefully one of Apple's upcoming point releases (10.7.1, etc...) will just update Disk Utility with this functionality.

(also would be nice if it would be able to make a full install USB, not just a utility/partition to have to download Lion again.)

I agree that this would be a great place for it. It would also be useful in the System Preferences pane.

BeSweeet
Aug 8, 2011, 06:43 PM
Meh. I'll stick with http://www.themacmob.com/how-to-create-a-bootable-hackintosh-ready-lion-usb-drive/, since it works with any Mac and nearly any PC (hackintosh).

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:44 PM
Jailbreaking is not reinstalling the OS. Beyond that, most jailbreaks are 100% reversible.


Jail Breaking is reinstalling the iOS to allow it to connect to other software not under Apple's control. Most of the original iOS remains. I argue that it's like adding a P2P file sharing app to Windows 7. But yes, jailbreaks are reversible. So is installing an OS. :)


Machines that are defined as having user serviceable memory and drives are still under warranty even if the user upgrades.


My point exactly. Apple's are not defined like this. The memory might be for the newer PCs, but when I had my black unibody Macbook, it was NOT approved.

Hard drive swaps on any Mac, from what I've seen, are expressly not allowed in terms of warranty. Again, the individuals servicing the PCs are allowed to make decisions, but they don't HAVE to follow through if you've changed the PC outside of Apple's express okay.

MilkMan4
Aug 8, 2011, 06:45 PM
Your data is gone. The warning said it would erase all the date on the drive, you should have taken it to heart. ;)

im pissed now! nowhere on apples website did it say that it would reformat the drive or erase all other data! alls it said was make sure you have 1gb of space on it! this is bs, this is madness!

Apple Expert
Aug 8, 2011, 06:45 PM
Would this work the 2011 MBA or Mac Mini?

thetoad30
Aug 8, 2011, 06:48 PM
im pissed now! nowhere on apples website did it say that it would reformat the drive or erase all other data! alls it said was make sure you have 1gb of space on it! this is bs, this is madness!

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=298174&d=1312843578

From an earlier post with screen shots.

For future knowledge, any drives you use as bootable will almost always be erased.

res1233
Aug 8, 2011, 06:49 PM
im pissed now! nowhere on apples website did it say that it would reformat the drive or erase all other data! alls it said was make sure you have 1gb of space on it! this is bs, this is madness!

Okay, I can't take it. It warned you in the app in red letters next to a yellow exclamation mark... They even made the letters red, as I said, so it would stand out and hopefully not be overlooked. You really have no right to by angry at anyone but yourself. Sorry if I sound harsh but... Wow...

anthorumor
Aug 8, 2011, 06:49 PM
I got excited but you still have to perform a fresh install over an internet connection. I'll stick to the unofficial method which lets you download Lion offline, thanks.

munkery
Aug 8, 2011, 06:54 PM
Jail Breaking is reinstalling the iOS to allow it to connect to other software not under Apple's control.

Jailbreaking doesn't reinstall iOS. It modifies iOS.

But yes, jailbreaks are reversible. So is installing an OS. :)

So, why worry about your warranty when making your own Lion DVD using the method provided in that link?

My point exactly. Apple's are not defined like this. The memory might be for the newer PCs, but when I had my black unibody Macbook, it was NOT approved.

The memory and drive are user serviceable on those MacBooks.

If the user damaged the hardware when performing the upgrade, then the warranty was void. This is the same for any computer.

But, properly doing the upgrade without damaging the hardware does not void the warranty.

wilhoitm
Aug 8, 2011, 06:57 PM
im pissed now! nowhere on apples website did it say that it would reformat the drive or erase all other data! alls it said was make sure you have 1gb of space on it! this is bs, this is madness!

Just use Time Machine to recover your hard drive and get your data back!

http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/#timemachinebasics

res1233
Aug 8, 2011, 07:02 PM
Just use Time Machine to recover your hard drive and get your data back!

http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/#timemachinebasics

Time Machine doesn't back up external drives, plus, I sincerely doubt this individual has it set up, but you never know.

BigB82
Aug 8, 2011, 07:08 PM
I am curious, I had a usb setup with Lion DMG on it from the install where I can do a fresh install or upgrade. Now I used that same USB to install this utility and the previous dmg is kind of gone now, wtf? what did I gain out of installing this utility vs having the entire OS dmg on my usb originally?

Dobbs2
Aug 8, 2011, 07:16 PM
Already made my own with the dmg.

They should have put this in the mac store. If they are going to make you download Lion from there isn't it common sense to put this in there?

wizard
Aug 8, 2011, 07:21 PM
ok can anyone help me?!

i did this little thing, and i put it on my 4gb flash drive that had some other files of mine on it. after i did it, my mac would not read the flash drive, and then i saw that on the apple site it said it would only show up when you restart and hold command. and when i plug it into my windows computer, it says it is not formatted, and that if i format it, all data will be erased. So is there any way i can get into my flash drive and get this lion thing off of it so i can have my files back?!

Sadly this is your reality right now. Always back up first when using any sort of disk utility.

mac1984user
Aug 8, 2011, 07:24 PM
...this would seem to make the unofficial Lion boot disk creator (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/) unnecessary.

Actually, I think the Lion boot disk creator instructions are still extremely useful. The disk image is all in one place and I'm not relying on an Apple utility, which might be pulled from availability whenever Apple feels like it. I have used my Lion DVD (created using those instructions) on a number of machines and I am very pleased to have that option available to me. Thanks again to all those that brought that news forward and made it available to other users.

ghsNick
Aug 8, 2011, 07:36 PM
So I put in my 8GB USB Drive and it erased everything on it and changed the name to "Recovery Disk."

If I ever need to re-install Lion on my iMac or Air I just put in the USB and upload it to the system from there?

PS - If I want to add other stuff to my USB can I also do that too? Or should I just leave Lion?

Asclepio
Aug 8, 2011, 08:00 PM
Nobody mentioned yet, but this require internet connection!:cool:

iSayuSay
Aug 8, 2011, 08:01 PM
NICE !! They just should've done this in the first place :) Well better late than never I guess

f00f
Aug 8, 2011, 08:08 PM
Glad the utility exists for those less-inclined to manipulate command-line stuff.

However, similar ends can be achieved by simply dd'ing /dev/disk0s3 to an external 650+ MB GPT slice of your choosing (on a USB disk, USB key, etc). I'm not sure if it's necessary to change the partition type of the target slice to "Apple_Boot" or not (I did, just don't know if it's required). FWIW, the recovery partition -- copied from my MBA4,2 to an external USB disk -- booted in my wife's mid-2010 Macbook. (I didn't expect it to!)

likemyorbs
Aug 8, 2011, 08:08 PM
This is idiotic. Is it so difficult to release a utility that let's you create a bootable DVD or USB drive? They force you to do thing the unofficial way, which is why I've had a bootable lion DVD since 3 weeks before lion was released.

Matthew9559
Aug 8, 2011, 08:14 PM
This is fantastic!!!

No more complaining!!!

Nevermind, people will always ***** about something. :rolleyes:

jonnysods
Aug 8, 2011, 08:35 PM
Hey that's cool. No .99 cent account fee?

ConnYoungy
Aug 8, 2011, 08:36 PM
What's the actual application for this? Just installing Lion should you ever change your hard drive?

Macboy Pro
Aug 8, 2011, 08:37 PM
But, properly doing the upgrade without damaging the hardware does not void the warranty.

Absolutely correct. I get so tired of people making the absurd statements that Apple voids warranties if you do so much as touch anything in their precious device. You only void warranties if you break certain seals (RARE) or you break something while upgrading. Anyone that says otherwise (and especially if they claim to be an "Apple Technician") is flat out full of it. Read Applecare. It is VERY CLEAR.

This basically boils down to Apple trying to appease an upset community, but still failing to turn over control of a product they expect you to buy. If you buy an Apple System, you should receive or have access to a physical product (disks or USB, or whatever). Not access to a utility that requires you to sign in and download 4GB over an internet you may or may not have access to when you need it. Just another way Apple is controlling. Its like the hard drives in the iMac, memory in the MBA, and every other proprietary piece of hardware they release. Great products but their leaders are control freaks and its annoying.

slu
Aug 8, 2011, 08:49 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

Steve is not a god


He never said he was a God.

"When someone asks you if you are a god, you say YES!"

csjo00
Aug 8, 2011, 08:53 PM
So.. This will let me do a clean install of Lion on a new HDD?

IzzyJG99
Aug 8, 2011, 08:57 PM
Glad they did this. I'll re-DL Lion once 10.7.1 comes out and use my spare 2GB Stick for the Recovery. I'd go back to 10.7 (for the 3rd time) but I don't want to endure more Wi-Fi issues.

lordmac
Aug 8, 2011, 08:57 PM
I am still a little confused. I do a bit of mac support and managing for some friends and family and right now one of the more useful tool in my digital tool box is a snow leopard installer on my external firewire drive. I made it from a retail snow leopard disc and it works like a charm for installing or reinstalling mac os x on any mac that supports snow leopard. I would love to add a Lion installer to my arsenal of mac recovery tools. Can I do that with this or will any mac I use it on be tied to my personal apple account and/or have a limited number of installs? :confused:

k1121j
Aug 8, 2011, 09:04 PM
Actually, I think MacRumors.com had a post about this kind of activity being specifically allowed in the software agreement. I'll try to find the link unless someone else can beat me to it.

Here is what apple said to me:
My name is Terry. I understand that you are wondering if you can get Lion for all of your computers. I would be more than happy to answer this question for you.

You can download Lion again for any computer as long as you are signed into your account free of charge.

You can redownload applications you have previously purchased from the Mac App Store to your computer, iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch without incurring additional charges. If you are unable to find your application in the App Store, it may have been removed and no longer available for download.

ScottishDuck
Aug 8, 2011, 09:06 PM
What's so hard about using disk utility to do this?

xlii
Aug 8, 2011, 09:16 PM
Time Machine doesn't back up external drives, plus, I sincerely doubt this individual has it set up, but you never know.

Time Machine does back up external drives by default (of course they have to be connected to your machine). You need to go into Time Machine preferences and exclude the drives you don't want backed up.

quagmire
Aug 8, 2011, 09:25 PM
My 1 GB 1st generation iPod Shuffle just found new life once again. It is now host to the Lion Recovery Key.

ciociosan
Aug 8, 2011, 09:29 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; sv-se) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

While I'm happy with this adjustment in policy on Apple's part, I'm even happier to see that Golson's style is gradually adapting to the general tone of MR. Nice work, mate!

res1233
Aug 8, 2011, 09:55 PM
Time Machine does back up external drives by default (of course they have to be connected to your machine). You need to go into Time Machine preferences and exclude the drives you don't want backed up.

I'll be darned... I could have sworn it didn't. I guess I probably never had an external drive connected to my computer that wasn't for Time Machine... It doesn't seem to let me back up my flash drive however. That's pretty much what I was getting that from.

EDIT: Oh, derp. My drive is formatted FAT32... That's probably why. :p I'm a bit slow today.

salbiani
Aug 8, 2011, 11:01 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)



"When someone asks you if you are a god, you say YES!"



Too funny!
I wonder how many people get the reference.

valkata
Aug 8, 2011, 11:51 PM
I am still a little confused. I do a bit of mac support and managing for some friends and family and right now one of the more useful tool in my digital tool box is a snow leopard installer on my external firewire drive. I made it from a retail snow leopard disc and it works like a charm for installing or reinstalling mac os x on any mac that supports snow leopard. I would love to add a Lion installer to my arsenal of mac recovery tools. Can I do that with this or will any mac I use it on be tied to my personal apple account and/or have a limited number of installs? :confused:
No, you can't do that with Apple's utility.

You need to do this unofficial way: get "Install ESD.dmg" from Lion install application and burn it to DVD, restore to USB stick, external drive, etc.

valkata
Aug 8, 2011, 11:53 PM
I am curious, I had a usb setup with Lion DMG on it from the install where I can do a fresh install or upgrade. Now I used that same USB to install this utility and the previous dmg is kind of gone now, wtf? what did I gain out of installing this utility vs having the entire OS dmg on my usb originally?

Well, you gained nothing. In fact you lost your full Lion install. You better start reading on screen instructions, this utility says, that it will erase all contents of the drive it is beeing installed to.

valkata
Aug 8, 2011, 11:57 PM
No download necessary. It uses the recovery partition to create the USB recovery image.

EDIT: Unless the recovery image is not a full installer, which is possible.
Recovery image is just replica of that 600 something megabyte recovery partition Lion creates on HDD. When you do recovery from it, it will require your Apple ID and will download full install of Lion.

Negritude
Aug 9, 2011, 12:33 AM
So, I'm thinking, when you use one of the recovery options to re-install Lion, is there a point, before or just after the install starts, when there is the existence of the full install package on disk, and that, if you ABORT the installation in a rude manner, you can somehow get access to the full install package via some means, in order to extract the InstallESD.dmg file, and then create a FULL Lion installer?

You see, the problem still remains for those who purchase a Mac with Lion pre-installed, that we have no obvious way to create a FULL recovery/install DVD from the included tools. For those who are techs, this is a must. Apple's internet dependent recovery options will NEVER be a substitute for a full installer or recovery disc on read-only media, whether that be a locked flash drive or burned optical media. Not only do I need to have the complete OS at my immediate disposal, but I need it on media that can't be written to.

yamabushi
Aug 9, 2011, 01:22 AM
Apple's internet dependent recovery options will NEVER be a substitute for a full installer or recovery disc on read-only media, whether that be a locked flash drive or burned optical media. Not only do I need to have the complete OS at my immediate disposal, but I need it on media that can't be written to.

I was just about to post the same thing. Very disappointing to have so many security enhancements in the new OS release completely invalidated by flawed recovery methods. No official method for using write only media without an internet connection for recovery and clean install is a complete failure.

tom vilsack
Aug 9, 2011, 01:23 AM
Whats the big deal? (other then when installing new hd)

Would it be so hard for apple:

-sell a full offline version of lion on dvd or usb.
-include dvd or usb version of lion on all new computers.
-make a utility that creates a usb full version of lion.

side note: and allow during install to do a custom install (don't need or want all the lang,printer drivers!)

also: not everyone has blazing fast internet...how is waiting 4-5 hours to install lion a advance? somethings wrong when i can install tiger on my ibook in 30 min where lion on a new macbook air/pro takes me 5hours!

MacRumorUser
Aug 9, 2011, 01:31 AM
I assume with this ability, it could and hopefully should mean tnat if you need to download lion in the future, say when it it has been updated to say 10.7.6 etc, then by re-downloading the operating system will give you the newest version of the operating system fully up to date.

If so, this would be handy and save having to re-download and install all the current patches after a clean installation, and go some way to alleviating the having to download the OS for install.




Still a proper install USB media is better ;)

duncanbishop
Aug 9, 2011, 02:14 AM
Lion is only 4 GB not 34 GB. That would be gigantic! It's been covered but here's the link to a utility that can do what you want. http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/

I used just this approach to install Lion from the App Store onto both my iMac and Macbook Pro. But prior to running the installer, I removed all existing OS X installations, worked a treat. This for me is the best approach for anyone that has a mac with an optical drive, or who has a USB dvd drive.

macnisse
Aug 9, 2011, 02:49 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; sv-se) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Good deal, thanks Apple! :)

echo.park
Aug 9, 2011, 03:17 AM
Have you guys ever seen this article?

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4718?viewlocale=en_US

If you happen to encounter a situation in which you cannot start from the Recovery HD, such as your hard drive stopped responding or you installed a new hard drive without Mac OS X installed, new Mac models introduced after public availability of OS X Lion automatically use the Lion Internet Recovery feature if the Recovery HD (Command-R method above) doesn't work. Lion Internet Recovery lets you start your Mac directly from Apple's Servers. The system runs a quick test of your memory and hard drive to ensure there are no hardware issues.

Lion Internet Recovery presents a limited interface at first, with only the ability to select your preferred Wi-Fi network and, if needed, enter the WPA passphrase. Next, Lion Internet Recovery will download and start from a Recovery HD image. From there, you are offered all the same utilities and functions described above.

As with the Recovery HD, reinstallation of OS X Lion from Lion Internet Recovery requires an Internet connection. See "Supported network configurations and protocols" below.

There is no need to create an usb drive, cause you can start your computer anyway and download all the tools from Apples servers right away. The same stuff that the usb drive would contain.
So I have no idea why Apple released that utility.

tkermit
Aug 9, 2011, 03:59 AM
There is no need to create an usb drive, cause you can start your computer anyway and download all the tools from Apples servers right away.

That works only on the most recently introduced models:

new Mac models introduced after public availability of OS X Lion automatically use the Lion Internet Recovery feature

Nord
Aug 9, 2011, 05:04 AM
I went on Mac for its simplicity. l lost my grip with Lion. Don't get me wrong, the system is great, but I don't understand what to do in case of problems with all this "recovery" stuffs popping-up now and then that I keep reading about. Some say it's good, some say bad, some say it's the full Lion, some say it's not, some say it's to download, some say it's for DVD, some say new Macs have no DVD equivalent and some say I can't sell my old Macs anymore because Lion installation program's got a Windows-kind-of serial number now, some say it's still ok; I'm so confused. :(

Once I had to recover data from a Time Machine drive, it was easy with the DVD, all I had to learn was to press the C key at startup for CD. I fortunately never used it for more complex stuffs, like reinstall Mac OS X, I always upgraded. I don't get it anymore with these "partitions" and stuffs, and this news makes me even more confused as for what kind of a "solution" this is, and there's no Apple store in my country, not for 700km, where I can go ask and take it in case of problems. :(

I just have to hope nothing will happen, so far I haven't had any problems in 7 years. On this, my trust in the Mac hasn't changed the slightest.

freemini
Aug 9, 2011, 05:06 AM
Have you guys ever seen this article?

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4718?viewlocale=en_US



There is no need to create an usb drive, cause you can start your computer anyway and download all the tools from Apples servers right away. The same stuff that the usb drive would contain.
So I have no idea why Apple released that utility.

Only the new MBA and Mac Minis have that. All other Macs don't, so you need a physical recovery disk/flash drive.
My only question about this is does it create a small partition on the flash drive or use up all of it? So if I use a 8GB flash drive, will it make a 1GB partition and leave the rest available for me to use or just partition it all and use 700mb from 8GB?

Winni
Aug 9, 2011, 05:13 AM
Thanks Apple.

But, it would have been nice for this to have been announced prior to all the whining that occurred about the lack of physical media options.

It is safe to assume that Apple only created this utility BECAUSE of all the (justified) whining. It's good - both for them and their customers - that they now corrected their mistakes and will even offer USB sticks with Lion on them for sale later this month.

divinox
Aug 9, 2011, 06:31 AM
Think Balmer will allow this for Windows?

This he'll sell the next version for $30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ;)

Windows has supported Boot from LAN and Boot from USB since what? xp? Thats how many years? 10?

As for 30$ your comparison is retarded. Apple has an integrated stack, while Microsoft sell software.

Detlev
Aug 9, 2011, 07:22 AM
Just noticing that it is not available through the App store. That's odd. (slight tangent here) There seem to be many inconsistancies like this recently within Apple software products. i.e. scrolling back pages in Safari can be done but not in iTunes, the App store, Finder, or System Preferences. Certain Apple products installed previously by DVD are recognized in the App store for redownload/upgrades but others are upgraded via the Software Update feature. The standard installation of Lion provides Launchpad and an Application smart folder on the Dock (both redundant and seemingly experimental if not less than supportive of the new feature). Apple usually forces the hand in these situations and users have to accept it or not upgrade. This might be interpreted in many different ways. (back on topic) I like doing clean installs now and again but until iCloud is operational I am hoping that I do not have to do one. The time it now takes due to the amount of files on the drive is painful.

alFR
Aug 9, 2011, 07:38 AM
Would it be so hard for apple:

-sell a full offline version of lion on dvd or usb.


What, you mean like the USB stick version they've already said they'll be selling later this month? :rolleyes:

tkermit
Aug 9, 2011, 07:49 AM
Interesting: I didn't realize that my external USB drive already had a Lion recovery partition on it. I used Snow Leopard on that drive to install Lion on my internal disk. So now, after completing the assistant, I have two "Recovery HDs" on my external disk.

dev/disk4
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *200.0 GB disk4
1: EFI 209.7 MB disk4s1
2: Apple_HFS OLD SL DEF 198.0 GB disk4s2
3: Apple_Boot Recovery HD 631.8 MB disk4s3
4: Apple_Boot Recovery HD 631.8 MB disk4s4

What I'm actually planning to do though, is to have two "recovery partitions" on that drive, where one of them contains the full ~4GB Lion installer, and the other one just allows for the Apple provided recovery method. The best of both worlds, if you will.

ZipZap
Aug 9, 2011, 07:53 AM
Why does everyone refer to past postings about the lack of a recovery option as whining???

The mac community complained about a short-coming, and Apple listened and responded.

Whining implies that the previous posts were without merit.

I consider all the posts on this thread indicating how and when Apple should have responded to this issue as whining when a solution is at hand.

Rapscallion
Aug 9, 2011, 07:54 AM
Sorry but I'm still not satisfied. I would like to have a full install that does not require an internet conection at all. I hope that the USB stick that they eventually put up for sale will be the full install I'm wishing for.
Thats my opinion, and I think its reasonable.

ZipZap
Aug 9, 2011, 08:01 AM
im pissed now! nowhere on apples website did it say that it would reformat the drive or erase all other data! alls it said was make sure you have 1gb of space on it! this is bs, this is madness!

The process makes a bootable partition. That is going to erase and reformat any USB.

Are you sure a disclaimer did not pop up?

ZipZap
Aug 9, 2011, 08:04 AM
So I put in my 8GB USB Drive and it erased everything on it and changed the name to "Recovery Disk."

If I ever need to re-install Lion on my iMac or Air I just put in the USB and upload it to the system from there?

PS - If I want to add other stuff to my USB can I also do that too? Or should I just leave Lion?

I would repartition the 8gig as I did....4.3 gig / rest. Then you can use the remaining to store other Mac files as needed.

silentnite
Aug 9, 2011, 08:06 AM
This kind of reminds me of windows, never any disk on hand when you needed it. Just hoping it works a lot better than pressing F10

Frobozz
Aug 9, 2011, 08:29 AM
I wonder if I can use one my older 8GB SD Cards for this? I'm not sure if the SD card flow is supported the same as USB, but it sure would be nice.

Mr. Retrofire
Aug 9, 2011, 08:47 AM
I wonder if I can use one my older 8GB SD Cards for this? I'm not sure if the SD card flow is supported the same as USB, but it sure would be nice.

Some third party SD card readers use the USB protocol. Apples SDXC card reader (MBP & Mac mini) uses the PCIe protocol. The SD card should be bootable in both hardware/software protocol configurations.

I've also seen third party ExpressCard 34 SDXC card readers, which use also the PCIe protocol, but require additional 38x JMicron drivers (likely not bootable).

Frobozz
Aug 9, 2011, 08:49 AM
Some third party SD card readers use the USB protocol. Apples SDXC card reader (MBP & Mac mini) uses the PCIe protocol. The SD card should be bootable in both hardware/software protocol configurations.

I've also seen third party ExpressCard 34 SDXC card readers, which use also the PCIe protocol, but require additional 38x JMicron drivers (likely not bootable).

Nice! Thanks for the info. I'm going to give this a try.

Hurda
Aug 9, 2011, 09:04 AM
Some third party SD card readers use the USB protocol.
Eh, disregarding the inaccuracies in your post, proper machines already boot from USB-devices (regardless if they are sticks or card-readers) just fine. And that for years now.
:D:apple:

colourfastt
Aug 9, 2011, 09:10 AM
Steve is not a god

Tell that to Steve.

valkata
Aug 9, 2011, 09:22 AM
Sorry but I'm still not satisfied. I would like to have a full install that does not require an internet conection at all. I hope that the USB stick that they eventually put up for sale will be the full install I'm wishing for.
Thats my opinion, and I think its reasonable.

What stops you from creating it yourself? It will take no longer than 10 minutes.

Sackvillenb
Aug 9, 2011, 09:56 AM
Well it's about time!!!! I don't see why Apple couldn't have just done this from the start. Silly Apple. But, better late than never...

Rapscallion
Aug 9, 2011, 09:57 AM
What stops you from creating it yourself? It will take no longer than 10 minutes.

In order to create the disk dont I first have to purchase and download Lion? This would require the use of data transfer, and that is what I'm trying to avoid in the first place.

Eric S.
Aug 9, 2011, 10:46 AM
I'll just take a traditional DVD with OS 10.7.3 on it. That'll solve a lot of problems!

Yes, and hopefully by 10.7.3 Apple will end all the confusion and just release a Lion DVD, which they should have done in the first place.

accessoriesguy
Aug 9, 2011, 11:09 AM
Thanks Apple.

But, it would have been nice for this to have been announced prior to all the whining that occurred about the lack of physical media options.

That's not exciting! jk, the engineers are probably busy, or did not think of adding this till everyone started to complain. That's one thing I really like about apple, I do report errors that come up, and they have fixed a grand majority of them. That is why I do not mind paying to update my OS, it is worth the security and stability updates, as well as ongoing updates from myself and other users report.

carlgo
Aug 9, 2011, 11:23 AM
Yes, and hopefully by 10.7.3 Apple will end all the confusion and just release a Lion DVD, which they should have done in the first place.

What? And not having to do this easy workaround:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobozz
I wonder if I can use one my older 8GB SD Cards for this? I'm not sure if the SD card flow is supported the same as USB, but it sure would be nice.
Some third party SD card readers use the USB protocol. Apples SDXC card reader (MBP & Mac mini) uses the PCIe protocol. The SD card should be bootable in both hardware/software protocol configurations.

I've also seen third party ExpressCard 34 SDXC card readers, which use also the PCIe protocol, but require additional 38x JMicron drivers (likely not bootable).

Surely this is so much better than sticking a disk into a slot...

tkermit
Aug 9, 2011, 11:59 AM
Does this actually work for you? Has anyone tested whether they can boot into the newly created recovery partition? Because I can boot into my internal recovery partition perfectly fine, by pressing CMD+R at startup, but if I select the newly created external one, the Apple graphic changes to a stop sign after a while with nothing more happening afterwards... :confused:

http://f.cl.ly/items/2J0N3a32131n1D1M1020/TS1892_1.gif

Joe-Diver
Aug 9, 2011, 12:26 PM
I can't seem to use it. Both my external drives, a media drive and 2Tb backup drive...are both FW800....the Recovery Assistant doesn't see them.:mad:

quagmire
Aug 9, 2011, 12:29 PM
I can't seem to use it. Both my external drives, a media drive and 2Tb backup drive...are both FW800....the Recovery Assistant doesn't see them.:mad:

Has to be through a USB connection.

Joe-Diver
Aug 9, 2011, 12:33 PM
Has to be through a USB connection.

Yeah...too bad. I wanted to put a recovery partition on my Time Machine drive.

vartanarsen
Aug 9, 2011, 12:49 PM
Are people so retarded they couldnt friggin burn the lion installer onto DVD before installing lion?

its like every little thing has to spelled out...i thought mac users were baove the rest, intellectually.

tbrinkma
Aug 9, 2011, 01:14 PM
This is false!

"We had previously reported that in order to do a clean install of Lion, Snow Leopard would need to be installed first. With this recovery partition creator, there is now an official path to perform a clean install without Snow Leopard. Also, this would seem to make the unofficial Lion boot disk creator unnecessary."

You still HAVE to download the 4GB install file from the internet with this small boot disc making the unofficial boot disc with full install file necessary still.

Um, actually the article is right. With the recovery disk (usb/whatever) you can install Lion without first installing Snow Leopard. The unofficial lion boot disc creator is now unnecessary. There's nothing false about that statement.

The unofficial boot disc is still *useful*, because it means you don't have to download the Lion installer each time you want to install, but it is no longer *necessary*.

munkery
Aug 9, 2011, 01:50 PM
Recovery image is just replica of that 600 something megabyte recovery partition Lion creates on HDD. When you do recovery from it, it will require your Apple ID and will download full install of Lion.

Thanks, but it has already been covered.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139722&postcount=25
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139747&postcount=30
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139833&postcount=43

It is safe to assume that Apple only created this utility BECAUSE of all the (justified) whining. It's good - both for them and their customers - that they now corrected their mistakes and will even offer USB sticks with Lion on them for sale later this month.

Thanks, but it has already been covered.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139670&postcount=10
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=13139919&postcount=59

Detlev
Aug 9, 2011, 05:01 PM
i thought mac users were baove the rest, intellectually.

The Collective's IQ has gone down since assimilating the masses. :rolleyes:

deconstruct60
Aug 9, 2011, 06:51 PM
Can someone confirm that this is just a boot recovery and it requires downloading the whole 4 gigs again?

If you have a back-up ( time machine , clone image ) you can recover that with this recovery drive. People should have back-ups. After using Lion for a couple weeks/months at that point there should be no need for a "re install" versus a recovery.

If talking about an USB drive to walk arounnd installing Lion to different SL machines .... this isn't it. That's isn't a 'recovery'.

deconstruct60
Aug 9, 2011, 07:10 PM
They should have put this in the mac store. If they are going to make you download Lion from there isn't it common sense to put this in there?

It is a support issue. While the "internet recovery" works on the newer macs, the other macs currently shipping with Lion really had no way to recover if the storage media failed.

Yes, there is 'free' software in the Mac App Store but this truely is a utility that should come *WITH* the OS. If 10.7.1 or 10.7.2 doesn't come with this pre-installed that is a major goof. Deployed this in relation to support they can pull it when support feels there aren't many users left who need it. (It will probably get pulled eventually when the .1+ releases of Lion start to dominate in distribution. )

thetoad30
Aug 9, 2011, 07:11 PM
Absolutely correct. I get so tired of people making the absurd statements that Apple voids warranties if you do so much as touch anything in their precious device. You only void warranties if you break certain seals (RARE) or you break something while upgrading. Anyone that says otherwise (and especially if they claim to be an "Apple Technician") is flat out full of it. Read Applecare. It is VERY CLEAR.

You're wrong. I remember reading my first late 2007 Macbook user guide and it said that changing out the HD is grounds for voiding the warranty.

I never said that Apple actually WOULD void the warranty, and I did get warranty work done on that laptop, but it was not sanctioned.

Also, if it's user-replaceable, then why in the world is there so much fuss about using non-Apple SSDs in the system? Why the big scandal regarding Apple not properly using SATA3 cables? Apple's official response has been that since drives are not user replaceable they won't "fix" the problem...:rolleyes:

deconstruct60
Aug 9, 2011, 07:13 PM
Are people so retarded they couldnt friggin burn the lion installer onto DVD before installing lion?


that process isn't supported by Apple. That is the other impact of this utility is to discourage folks to do what Apple doesn't want to people to do. [ If on the other end of a slow pipe or have a bandwidth cap, then you and Apple have a disconnect that this utility doesn't solve. ]

thetoad30
Aug 9, 2011, 07:24 PM
Are people so retarded they couldnt friggin burn the lion installer onto DVD before installing lion?

its like every little thing has to spelled out...i thought mac users were baove the rest, intellectually.

Come on... there is something nice about it being a one-step process that has Apple's approval.

Secondly, no, Mac users are now people who like simplicity, since that's what Jobs and Co. are targeting. Haven't you seen their commercials for the past 5 years? It's all about "it just works". Try telling someone who never has used a PC before how to create a bootable install disk... for any OS! It's a difficult process.

munkery
Aug 9, 2011, 07:33 PM
Also, if it's user-replaceable, then why in the world is there so much fuss about using non-Apple SSDs in the system? Why the big scandal regarding Apple not properly using SATA3 cables? Apple's official response has been that since drives are not user replaceable they won't "fix" the problem...:rolleyes:

Are you referring to the issue of replacing the optical drive with an SSD.

Obviously, this is not considered a sanctioned user serviceable upgrade.

Can you provide a link to describe the issue if you are talking about a different issue?

You're wrong. I remember reading my first late 2007 Macbook user guide and it said that changing out the HD is grounds for voiding the warranty.

I never said that Apple actually WOULD void the warranty, and I did get warranty work done on that laptop, but it was not sanctioned.

The following is a link to the DIY guide for upgrading a MacBook hard drive.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf

The following is a link to the user guide for late 2007 MacBook.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MacBook_Late2007_UserGuide.pdf

As shown in the following, the warranty is only voided if the user causes damage while attempting the upgrade.

tkermit
Aug 9, 2011, 07:37 PM
Haven't you seen their commercials for the past 5 years?

Make that 25.

"on a particularly bright day in Cupertino, California, some particularly bright engineers had a particularly bright idea: since computers are so smart, wouldn't it make more sense to teach computers about people, instead of teaching people about computers?
[...]
so easy to use, most people already know how
[...]
They called it Macintosh."

thetoad30
Aug 9, 2011, 07:42 PM
Are you referring to the issue of replacing the optical drive with an SSD.

Obviously, this is not considered a sanctioned user serviceable upgrade.

Can you provide a link to describe the issue if you are talking about a different issue?


No. I was referring to replacing the actual hard drive, not the optical. I will look for a link.

The following is a link to the DIY guide for upgrading a MacBook hard drive.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf


Maybe I wasn't clear before, but I was trying to say that for my 2007 Macbook, the HDD was definitely not on the list of approved changes. Maybe things have changed since then? I don't know.

I do remember this document coming out. It was after a bunch of people
were posting online how to change the HDD. This was posted after either iFixit.com showed how to do it, or some other site (I can't remember).



The following is a link to the user guide for late 2007 MacBook.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MacBook_Late2007_UserGuide.pdf

As shown in the following, the warranty is only voided if the user causes damage while attempting the upgrade.

Note that the image you posted, along with the user manual, does not include anything regarding the HDD. The memory was obviously okay to change (and if I said it wasn't then I was obviously wrong), but the HDD for what I recall was a no-no, until that document you posted came out. I do remember that it was NOT at the same time of release as the computer I had, though.

thetoad30
Aug 9, 2011, 07:43 PM
Make that 25.

"on a particularly bright day in Cupertino, California, some particularly bright engineers had a particularly bright idea: since computers are so smart, wouldn't it make more sense to teach computers about people, instead of teaching people about computers?
[...]
so easy to use, most people already know how
[...]
They called it Macintosh."

Well... okay... you proved my point better than I could. :D

schweig
Aug 9, 2011, 10:57 PM
I was just wondering: once I make the bootable flash drive can it be used to recover any Lion machine? I have three Macs and would like to have one flash drive for all of them. Hmmmm...

skylerr
Aug 9, 2011, 11:28 PM
I was just wondering: once I make the bootable flash drive can it be used to recover any Lion machine? I have three Macs and would like to have one flash drive for all of them. Hmmmm...

Yes, you can.

barkmonster
Aug 10, 2011, 02:46 AM
im pissed now! nowhere on apples website did it say that it would reformat the drive or erase all other data! alls it said was make sure you have 1gb of space on it! this is bs, this is madness!

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=298174&d=1312843578

Looks like a very clear warning in friendly red letters to me :rolleyes:

Mr. Retrofire
Aug 10, 2011, 03:25 AM
Eh, disregarding the inaccuracies in your post...

Which "inaccuracies"?

JetBlack7
Aug 10, 2011, 03:28 AM
Do I need a new USB? Or can I use the Snow Leopard and make a recovery disk from there?

LeiQQ
Aug 10, 2011, 03:28 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

What I have yet to receive is a method to download lion to a machine that does not have snow leopard installed. I have a Mac mini with snow leopard server that I want to do a clean install on with lion. The app store requires me to purchase both the lion upgrade and lion server upgrade. The only option for me is to buy snow leopard do a clean install and then install lion. So pointless. Well another way is to buy the USB but why do that? Why not let me download lion, create an installation DVD or USB, wipe the drive and do a lion install?

munkery
Aug 10, 2011, 04:23 AM
Maybe I wasn't clear before, but I was trying to say that for my 2007 Macbook, the HDD was definitely not on the list of approved changes. Maybe things have changed since then? I don't know.

I do remember this document coming out. It was after a bunch of people
were posting online how to change the HDD. This was posted after either iFixit.com showed how to do it, or some other site (I can't remember).

Note that the image you posted, along with the user manual, does not include anything regarding the HDD. The memory was obviously okay to change (and if I said it wasn't then I was obviously wrong), but the HDD for what I recall was a no-no, until that document you posted came out. I do remember that it was NOT at the same time of release as the computer I had, though.

The first page of the DIY guide has a similar disclaimer as the user guide has for memory upgrades.

Read the first page of the DIY guide.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf

alFR
Aug 10, 2011, 04:53 AM
Anyone successfully made a Lion Recovery SD card and booted from it in a MB/MBP built-in SD reader?

lokiju
Aug 11, 2011, 09:36 PM
Anyone successfully made a Lion Recovery SD card and booted from it in a MB/MBP built-in SD reader?

I want to know this also...

EDIT: Actually figured it out.

Pretty simple.

Just take a external USB SD card reader, put the desired SD card in there and attached to the system and then it'll let you select it when doing the utility.

After that you can stick it in your SD slot on your Mac and it will boot from it and work.

The pSYION
Aug 13, 2011, 10:45 AM
Does this software work for Lion Server? I had a world of nightmares with my new Lion server from the get go. I ended up using Target Disk mode to get everything sorted.... the new line of Macs only allow booting from "authorised" media.....

heisenberg123
Oct 12, 2011, 10:34 AM
so silly question but with this recovery usb key, can i put in a new hard drive, boot with the usb key plugged in and then i can install Lion on the new hard drive?

some things im reading make me think you need that recovery partition on your hard drive to make this usb key work which doesnt make sense

ouimetnick
Oct 12, 2011, 10:38 AM
so silly question but with this recovery usb key, can i put in a new hard drive, boot with the usb key plugged in and then i can install Lion on the new hard drive?

some things im reading make me think you need that recovery partition on your hard drive to make this usb key work which doesnt make sense

The USB key basically has the recovery partition on it.

Apple has send USB keys for free to customers that have issues downloading Lion from the App Store. They simply use that key, boot off it, and it downloads a fresh copy of Lion w/o the App Store.

The $69 key has Lion installed directly on it... no downloading needed. Same thing with the "home made" Lion DVD installer that you can boot off of.

heisenberg123
Oct 12, 2011, 10:47 AM
The USB key basically has the recovery partition on it.

Apple has send USB keys for free to customers that have issues downloading Lion from the App Store. They simply use that key, boot off it, and it downloads a fresh copy of Lion w/o the App Store.

The $69 key has Lion installed directly on it... no downloading needed. Same thing with the "home made" Lion DVD installer that you can boot off of.

ahh thanks, so this USB key i made will allow me to download Lion off the internet on a blank hard drive, but the one apple sells would let me install where i had no internet access?

ouimetnick
Oct 12, 2011, 10:52 AM
ahh thanks, so this USB key i made will allow me to download Lion off the internet on a blank hard drive, but the one apple sells would let me install where i had no internet access?

Correct. Or if you already have it downloaded, burn it onto a DVD (google it), and it will be just like a retail disc, with the full version on the disc.

heisenberg123
Oct 12, 2011, 10:59 AM
Correct. Or if you already have it downloaded, burn it onto a DVD (google it), and it will be just like a retail disc, with the full version on the disc.

ok thanks i will do that, sounds easier to have the full version for re-installing rather than needing a internet connection and using 3GB of bandwith

edit: looks like in the turtorials to make the bootable dvd i need the installer file, which i dont have my MBP came with lion pre-installed

gnasher729
Oct 12, 2011, 12:26 PM
The utility's notes don't appear to be complete, though: if it can be used on a new hard drive, why does it matter what type of Lion install you're creating it from?

If you bought a Macintosh with Lion, then you only have a license to use Lion on that single Macintosh. But if you bought Lion separately, then you have a license to install Lion on all Macs that you own and control. It seems that the Lion Recovery disk has exactly the capabilities that match your license.

----------

Also, if it's user-replaceable, then why in the world is there so much fuss about using non-Apple SSDs in the system? Why the big scandal regarding Apple not properly using SATA3 cables? Apple's official response has been that since drives are not user replaceable they won't "fix" the problem...:rolleyes:

Some things are harder to replace than others. Replacing the hard drive in any MacBook, or in any recent MacBook Pro, is easy. Replacing the hard drive in a Mac Pro is more than easy; I don't think you need any tools at all. An old MacBook Pro was difficult. iMacs are difficult. Mac Mini is not difficult, but difficult to do without leaving any traces. I have replaced RAM on a Macintosh Plus, that wasn't difficult, it was frightening. And dangerous. My brother added an internal hard drive to one, that was difficult, frightening, dangerous, and required use of a Dremel.

justinfreid
Oct 12, 2011, 12:46 PM
If you bought a Macintosh with Lion, then you only have a license to use Lion on that single Macintosh. But if you bought Lion separately, then you have a license to install Lion on all Macs that you own and control. It seems that the Lion Recovery disk has exactly the capabilities that match your license.

That seems like it makes sense - but even if your license only extends to the Mac you purchased with Lion, you should be able to easily reinstall Lion on a new harddrive purchased for that Mac without having to hook it up to the internet.