Amazon Listing for Dual 2.7 Ghz PowerMac

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With previous rumors already pointing to tuesday or wednesday for a release of new powermacs, Amazon.com appears to have let the cat out of the bag early by posting a listing for a Dual 2.7 Ghz PowerMac.

Apple's online store and hardware listing pages remain unchanged as of yet.

Amazon specs include:
Mac OS X10.4, code named Tiger
Dual 2.7 GHz PowerPC G5 processors
512 MB of DDR SDRAM
250 GB hard drive
16x Dual Layer SuperDrive (CD/DVD+RW)

[myapplseedshurt]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With previous rumors already pointing to today for a release of new powermacs, Amazon.com appears to have let the cat out of the bag early by posting a listing (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007OW502/ref%3Damb%5Fright-1%5F208631%5F4/102-1651336-0101715) for a Dual 2.7 Ghz PowerMac.

Apple's online store and hardware listing pages remain unchanged as of yet.


I knew this was coming, couldn't say anything due to NDA

[broken_keyboard]

Features:

Mac OS X10.4, code named Tiger
Dual 2.7 GHz PowerPC G5 processors
512 MB of DDR SDRAM
250 GB hard drive
16x Dual Layer SuperDrive (CD/DVD+RW)

Edit: Compare with current 2.5:

Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
512MB DDR400 SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA
8x SuperDrive

Not much of an improvement really. Tiger is the best thing.

[macbaseball]

That's very cool. Hopefully there are more announcements to come. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[AoWolf]

Apple will be pissed...and so will the duel core people. Oh well faster is better.

[johnnowak]

Yes yes yes... but what graphics card?

[Josh396]

Well it's good to see a dual layer burner at x16 speed but so much for the dual core. I really wasn't expecting to see dual core Power Macs released on a Tuesday. I would think this is something Jobs would love to show of at a keynote. Maybe at WWDC they'll add a Dual Core Dual Processor to the top of the line.

[cosmoed]

Come on iMac...

[supergod]

How about price? They need to get the price on those suckers down fast.

[MustardMan]

I'm disappointed that the update is nothing groundbreaking, but I've been holding off a PM purchase hoping for a little bit more for my money. The dual layer drive will be a nice touch for me.

Honestly, I'm glad we've got some decent evidence to put the "I bet we get dual cores this week" fantasies to rest.

[sinisterdesign]

Features:

Mac OS X10.4, code named Tiger - given
Dual 2.7 GHz PowerPC G5 processors - meh
512 MB of DDR SDRAM - w/e
250 GB hard drive - nice
16x Dual Layer SuperDrive (CD/DVD+RW) - nice

i think i'm most excited about that hard drive & that's kinda sad... :^\

[~Shard~]

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed with this "marginal" upgrade, but what can you do. The DL drive is nice to see at least.

If Steve doesn't have 3 GHz+ ready for WWDC though some people are going to be really pissed....

[myapplseedshurt]

How about price? They need to get the price on those suckers down fast.


$2994.99. but if you apply for a credit card, you get $30 off :rolleyes:

[ASP272]

Stupid Amazon.com! Thanks! :D

[iJaz]

How did any one find that computer? I can't find it even when I am searching for it! (Yes, it works when I follow the link.)

[~Shard~]

$2994.99. but if you apply for a credit card, you get $30 off :rolleyes:

Oooh, what a deal! :p ;)

[adamfilip]

Ah what a CROK!

This is the worst Powermac update ever

[Platform]

Good........well let's see tomrrow :rolleyes: ;)

[aussie_geek]

Good to see!

I am also a little dissapointed with the price and the lack of information by Amazon. Where did you find this link? I have searched amazon using their search system and it doesn't show up?

And what about the other models?

aussie_geek

[nospleen]

This update is hilarious, they did not even drop the price!! (on amazon anyway.) I could go for 2399 for the dual 2.7, but 2.999!! No thanks...

[Chaywa]

I'd just like to point out to all the people complaining about modest speed increases that my Rev. A dual 2.0 ghz G5 has been going strong for a year and a half having every kind of processor hungry video thrown at it (dv up to HD).
I understand the desire for apple products to improve and get better and faster but the people who talk about the G5 line as if it is hobbled aren't using one on a daily basis I think. I'm happy for those about to get a dual 2.7, it can only be an improvement on mine which is a stunning machine. :)

[propropro]

It seems they are not releasing them today:
From Amazon.com
Date first available at Amazon: April 27, 2005

[Dont Hurt Me]

A years wait for this? come on.

[WoofJoe]

Apple continues its long tradition of holding out on memory, despite top-line pricing. Way to bravely thumb your nose at the market, Apple.

While we're at it, how about a 400GB hard drive and 6800 GT standard on the $3,000 PowerMac? Perhaps that would ease the sting of over promised and under delivered CPUs.

A man can dream...now get my credit card!

[topgunn]

That clears up a question I had about pricing. So no dual PM for $1,499. I wonder if the 2.7GHz is air-cooled.

[Platform]

This update is hilarious, they did not even drop the price!! (on amazon anyway.) I could go for 2399 for the dual 2.7, but 2.999!! No thanks...

Yes if this is all they give they have to drop the price :mad:

[macridah]

Apple's partners keep on blowing it. Steve must of been screaming for days now.

Any iMac news? That's what I want to know.

[aussie_geek]

This update is hilarious, they did not even drop the price!! (on amazon anyway.) I could go for 2399 for the dual 2.7, but 2.999!! No thanks...

Whats a bet they keep the old pricing.. - a bit weak I say. :(. What you want to do now is hunt around for a cheap 2.5Ghz.

aussie_geek

[DaveP]

Just because the 2.7 is listed doesn't mean it is the necessarily the top of the line...right, right guys....there's still hope...... :o

[Peyote]

Dual 2.0:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007OW57K/ref=amb_right-3_208631_2/103-7868448-3561405


Dual 2.3:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007OW51Q/ref=amb_right-3_208631_3/103-7868448-3561405

Dual 2.7 (duh):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007OW502/ref=amb_right-3_208631_4/103-7868448-3561405

[Stike]

Slap a Cell CPU in the PowerMac, that would be schweet :-P

[jrv3034]

I love that my Rev. A Dual 2GHz is still going to be in the Power Mac lineup... 2 years later!!!

2.7GHz, is fast, but I fear not fast enough.

[NY152]

Okay... not a great update by the looks of it, but... I need to order one so it is coming at a great time for me.

Question: If Amazon has listed it when (usually) will the Apple store reflect the new models?

[jocknerd]

No dual core? Damn, AMD and Intel have dual core processors now. Its time Apple faces the facts. They are a software company, not a hardware company. You can't claim to be a hardware company and continue to have inferior hardware. You make great software Apple. Its time to show the world. Switch to AMD please.

[Rincewind42]

I'm actually amazed the listings are still up at Amazon, but this is the update I have been waiting for. I can now get a mid-line machine that is faster than the original Power Mac (or a low end that is just as fast :D). As soon as it goes live on the Apple store I'm placing my order.

[csubear]

Pricing is very very very weak.

2k for a Dual 2.0? That model is now 2 years old.

[myapplseedshurt]

Just because the 2.7 is listed doesn't mean it is the necessarily the top of the line...right, right guys....there's still hope...... :o

nope, this is it.

[aswitcher]

Pricing is very very very weak.

2k for a Dual 2.0? That model is now 2 years old.


I tend to agree. Is a dual layer 16x that pricey? Surely 90 gig extra ram is nice....

[fanbrain]

This will at least bring down the price of the dual 2.5's :D. Perfect. I hope there is a change in the graphics card. There are only two choices right now.

[Yvan256]

Features:

Mac OS X10.4, code named Tiger - given
Dual 2.7 GHz PowerPC G5 processors - meh
512 MB of DDR SDRAM - w/e
250 GB hard drive - nice
16x Dual Layer SuperDrive (CD/DVD+RW) - nice

i think i'm most excited about that hard drive & that's kinda sad... :^\

Well, you can put a LOT of.... erm... files... on that 250GB. :D

[splintah]

concerning dual core

well intel and ati did already announce their dual cores

but can they deliver ?

i think the dualcore is ready
but they just do not have enough of them on stock to sell the whole machines

i guess they are waiting for ibm to have more of those on stock so they do not have to keep people who already paid waiting for weeks until they get their units

because that really sucks

[topgunn]

I want to see what happens to the price of the dual 1.8's on Apple's refurb page. A $200 drop from $1699 to $1499 would nice price to pick up a dual G5.

[pounce]

it means i don't feel bad about my dual 2.5, which is still killer.

[aswitcher]

Looks like ThinkSecret was dead on...

[CmdrLaForge]

Ah what a CROK!

This is the worst Powermac update ever

Agreed. As bad as the last Powerbook update.

I mean - its almost a year. C'mon

[j_maddison]

At this rate we'll be longing for freescale to save us from the dissapointment the G5 is. It's reminding me of the G4, great cpu when it first came out but then stagnating.

Just baffles me how AMD can release a dual core chip through the use of an IBM colaboration, but IBM fail to release a dual core chip for Apple. It's pretty lame especially when you consider IBM were the first to bring out a dual core chip with their power line.

Jay

[machan]

Well, looks like my Dual 2.0 from last fall is still in the game.

Now, would someone at Apple please work on reallocating some iPod profits and putting it into developing a Dual 3.0 Powermac? For crying out loud. Lame.

[Yvan256]

No dual core? Damn, AMD and Intel have dual core processors now. Its time Apple faces the facts. They are a software company, not a hardware company. You can't claim to be a hardware company and continue to have inferior hardware. You make great software Apple. Its time to show the world. Switch to AMD please.

Funniest post so far.

(in case you weren't joking, Apple doesn't make CPUs, and switching to AMD would require switching to x86, which would be a huge mistake).

[drewm]

will these machine likely REQUIRE tiger? wonder if they'll boot 10.3.9?

[edesignuk]

Worst G5 PM update to date? :rolleyes:

Hi IBM, meet Motorola.

[wallinbl]

Apple will be pissed...and so will the duel core people. Oh well faster is better.

Why would you want the cores to fight each other?

[myapplseedshurt]

Looks like ThinkSecret was dead on...

yeah, I think they need to be careful, they still seem to have some one pumping good info to them, which is dangerous for the mole. I'm sure this will figure into the pending litigation. Someone is real stupid....

[myapplseedshurt]

Worst G5 PM update to date? :rolleyes:

Hi IBM, meet Motorola.


moto is like a dead man walking, problem is, they don't know it.

[zelmo]

Here's to hoping Steve unveils the new top-end Dual dualcore 3.0GHz PowerMac G5 at WWDC, which they would make room for by dropping the single processor PM and letting the rest of the new line up drop in price accordingly.

[tazznb]

Features:

Mac OS X10.4, code named Tiger
Dual 2.7 GHz PowerPC G5 processors
512 MB of DDR SDRAM
250 GB hard drive
16x Dual Layer SuperDrive (CD/DVD+RW)

Edit: Compare with current 2.5:

Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
512MB DDR400 SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA
8x SuperDrive

Not much of an improvement really. Tiger is the best thing.

I agree with you 1000000000.2%. I am totally unimpressed. :(

[Cooknn]

I love that my Rev. A Dual 2GHz is still going to be in the Power Mac lineup... 2 years later!!!

2.7GHz, is fast, but I fear not fast enough.I agree. Great bang for the buck on our 2GHz boxes.

[Object-X]

Well, guess that confirms it. Apple's web site has nothing yet, but it's only 6:30 in morning, so I'm guessing an hour or so. I like that they are coming with 512MB of RAM; but really, Apple's RAM is over priced and the G5s should come standard with a 1GB. At that price, it's scandalous they were selling them with 256MB. If Crucial can sell RAM at almost 50% what Apple is, then Apple's bottom line can afford a slight hit. :(

I suspect, based on all the other rumors of minor updates, this update has more to do with bumping the RAM than anything else. Tiger is probably even slower than Panther with 256MB and they just couldn't get away with jippn' their customers anymore. Sad thing is that 512 isn't really much better, especially on a G5 PM; you need at least a 1GB on any mac before it starts to perform properly.

[rockman2023]

I tend to agree. Is a dual layer 16x that pricey? Surely 90 gig extra ram is nice....

Pricey? Of course it isn't. I bought a Sony DRU-700A Dual Layer 8x burner (fit's nicely in my 2001 Quicksilver) for about $169 at Best Buy. Lo and behold, a few months later, Sony comes out with a 16x Dual Layer burner and Best Buy was selling it for $139!!!

Oh well... :rolleyes:

[Mr. Anderson]

Dual 2.0:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007OW57K/ref=amb_right-3_208631_2/103-7868448-3561405


Dual 2.3:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007OW51Q/ref=amb_right-3_208631_3/103-7868448-3561405

Dual 2.7 (duh):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007OW502/ref=amb_right-3_208631_4/103-7868448-3561405

How did you find these? I did a search on Amazon and couldn't get them

And what about the iMacs and eMacs :D

D

[MacRy]

Well that's certainly a bit disappointing. Strange that the range is now 2.0GHz, 2.3GHz and 2.7GHz. Why not keep the 2.5GHz?

I bet Apple are really chuffed that Amazon has leaked this out early!

[aussie_geek]

Well, you can put a LOT of.... erm... files... on that 250GB. :D


Hmmm three partitions I say - 70Gb each. One for OS, one for apps and um, the other, err, filevaulted for "sensitive data"... :D

aussie_geek

[oingoboingo]

Ah what a CROK!

This is the worst Powermac update ever

No, I believe that would be the one where the 450MHz G4 was substituted for the 500MHz G4. At least PowerMac speed bumps go forward these days, not back.

[Wonder Boy]

here is a link to the amazon page-

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/565098/ref=e_hp_ln_26/102-4948851-6040943

[pgre]

At this rate we'll be longing for freescale to save us from the dissapointment the G5 is. It's reminding me of the G4, great cpu when it first came out but then stagnating.

Just baffles me how AMD can release a dual core chip through the use of an IBM colaboration, but IBM fail to release a dual core chip for Apple. It's pretty lame especially when you consider IBM were the first to bring out a dual core chip with their power line.
Jay

Remeber though that IBM use the Dual core.. but it doesn't come cheap. So I am sure if they wanted to use the Power line up they could but they would cost more... and use more juice.

[machan]

I bet Apple are really chuffed that Amazon has leaked this out early!

Not nearly as chuffed as all of us who were promised and eagerly awaiting 3.0 GHz 12 months ago....

[cosmoed]

Well that's certainly a bit disappointing. Strange that the range is now 2.0GHz, 2.3GHz and 2.7GHz. Why not keep the 2.5GHz?

I bet Apple are really chuffed that Amazon has leaked this out early!

Maybe Steve likes it. He was probably feeling lethargic and just to get some extra shuteye, he told amazon to release it out to the public.

[MacRy]

Not nearly as chuffed as all of us who were promised and eagerly awaiting 3.0 GHz 12 months ago....

Well quite! Piss poor development there I guess.

[deanklear]

Apple continues its long tradition of holding out on memory, despite top-line pricing. Way to bravely thumb your nose at the market, Apple.

I'd have to say I'm very disappointed myself. Configuring a Dual 2.0 Opteron with 6 200GB SATA Hard Drives, 4GB of memory, and a 16X DVD-R is going to run you about $3,000. Is it worth it to pay nearly twice that for a G5 that you can't rackmount without reaching for your hacksaw? If I have to run a Mac only application, yes... but $6,000 will get you a fully loaded Dual 2.7, or a Quad Opteron 2.0. Folks, there's no argument there about processing power, unless one is completely off one's tod.

As time marches on, the lack of updates combined with zero price movement in the is really going to hurt. Don't get me wrong, I love Macs. I own enough of them, and I sell them too. But if another window manager for a *BSD or *nix gets stable and has good eye candy, Steve is going to have to figure something out. I'm not the only UNIX inclined nerd who's very disappointed with the lack of updates and price drops for the Apple line.

[MacRy]

Maybe Steve likes it. He was probably feeling lethargic and just to get some extra shuteye, he told amazon to release it out to the public.

LOL. Now that's proper laziness!

[R.Youden]

I love all of this. I am sat here on my 1.42GHz G4 DP and it is great. OK I know people here want the top of the range stuff but the phrase 'flogging a dead horse' springs to mind. Apple needs to look at where the problem is, and I dont believe it is them. The best thing for them to do IS build their own hardware so at least they are not dependant upon others. Anyway, long live the G4 :p

[deputy_doofy]

I said it before but I think it needs repeating. While past performance is no indicator of future events, Apple has never released a product only to turn around TWO months later and release a better version of that product. The chances of a better, dual-core G5 being released in June is next to nothing (notice I didn't say completely nothing).
Use some logic.
From the 2.0s to the 2.5s, Apple waited a whole year. Do you not think people would wait the full year again if Apple could squeeze out the dual core in June? People sure would wait - as if they had any choice.
I see NO common sense in the arguement that Powermacs will be single core tomorrow and dual core in June. It's possible but not probable.

[zweigand]

If they no longer need the liquid cooling system.

Some people will never be happy. :rolleyes:

[BlueDjinn]

Is it still at least *conceivable* that these new models are dual-core? The specs at Amazon leave out some key items such as video card, PCI type, etc...still hoping...

Assuming that these are NOT dual core, and are instead just slightly-faster versions of the current G5s, I'm astonished that there isn't an accompanying price drop, at the very least.

I gotta figure that this is PURELY a temporary stop-gap to a) allow them to release the bumped-up iMacs, and b) to hold things over until WWDC...

[asterizk]

No, I believe that would be the one where the 450MHz G4 was substituted for the 500MHz G4. At least PowerMac speed bumps go forward these days, not back.

+1 insightful :D

[aussie_geek]

No offence but what has this got to do with the subject of this thread ??


Yep, none taken - I was replying to this comment made in this thread by another member :rolleyes:

Is it just me, or did someone at Apple forget to update the music store this morning?

my reply was:
One thing I have noticed about the music store is the weird shape of the icons. As we know, when you go and choose the country you wish to browse through, you are presented with CIRCULAR shaped icons. At the moment I am seeing more oval icons.

Is it just my mac or is eveyrone else seeing this as well??



aussie_geek

[obeygiant]

what time does apple usually announce? 12pm eastern 9am pacific?

[joshua_msu]

Is it still possible to release them today, even though it later in the day? What about ibook updates, are they possible?

[mymemory]

What a sad news, lame improvement. Jobs is pushing the envelope. At list 3.0 we should be getting by now, not a sad lame 2.7! :(

[cosmoed]

I am still a newbie, but I am guessing iMac and the rest of the gang will be sometime this week.

if not next tuesday... :)

[psycho bob]

This makes the G4 Powermac's jump from 1.25 to 1.42 look like a worthy and front page headline. Oh well, I was hoping for something special. I went and fitted a DL 16x burner to my G5 a few months back so the only exciting thing about these updates is the larger standard hard drive... wow :rolleyes:

[joeboy_45101]

Funniest post so far.

(in case you weren't joking, Apple doesn't make CPUs, and switching to AMD would require switching to x86, which would be a huge mistake).


The most ignorant thing I've heard all day. AMD isn't somehow barred from ever making anything other than x86 processors. I would like to know why AMD would be unable to produce a suitable POWER CPU, when you think about it IBM was really kind of a bad partner to supply the actual chips in the first place. IBM is great at producing cutting edge technology, but not so great in implementing it like in the case of the G5. I think it would be wiser for companies like FreeScale and AMD to get the technology from IBM but to do the actual implementing themselve's.

I only wish Apple would see it this way, having IBM supply the technology and have an actual chip maker design and build the chips.

[obeygiant]

do you think apple will sue amazon like they did thinksecret?

[Mr. Anderson]

But one thing we don't know about is the graphics cards....maybe we'll get a surprise :D

D

[ALoveSupreme]

Assuming that these are NOT dual core, and are instead just slightly-faster versions of the current G5s, I'm astonished that there isn't an accompanying price drop, at the very least.

The Dual 2.0 ghz actually dropped 500 dollars as far as I can see...

So 500 dollars less plus a better superdrive and maybe a better gpu.And for the price of the old Dual 2.0 ghz you now get a Dual 2.3 with an even bigger disk, a better superdrive and maybe a better gpu. Not too bad in my opinion. Still dissapointed there is no DualCoreDual...
:(

[HelloKitty]

Is it too foolish (or naive) to hope for 970MP for the update at this moment?..

[MacSA]

......dual core processors at WWDC 2006 :D

(i'm not joking)

[WoofJoe]

With all this talk of dual-core CPUs, I thought I'd add my two cents. I think Intel's dual-core solution is over-hyped at this point.

Quoting Maximum PC magazine:

"The first [Intel] dual-core CPUs will have two cores within a single die...will use the same front-side bus. Intel says it had to clock the CPU cores down from the current 3.8GHz Prescott to 3.2GHz because of thermal and power restrictions. Intel also says dual-core chips will use an 800MHz front-side bus rather than a 1066MHz bus to compensate for power, frequency, and other issues."

I'm curious to see what AMD has on tap.

[deputy_doofy]

I'm liking the upgrades. Yes, they're not as good as they could be, but I don't need the power. I just want it. For the same price (hopefully a little cheaper), I now get 400+ MHz (200 per processor - marketing :)), a bigger hard drive, and a 16x DL DVD burner. I've been wanting a DVD burner forever and now I get one with some good speed as well.
I was going to buy the 2.5 at the same price point about 6-8 months ago but I was waiting on reports of problems with the cooling system. So, I don't lose here.

[BlueDjinn]

The Dual 2.0 ghz actually dropped 500 dollars as far as I can see...

Oh, come on, you know what I meant; they're keeping the same *price points* for the new models:

Old: $1,500 / $2,000 / $2,500 / $3,000

New: n/a / $2,000 / $2,500 / $3,000

When they come out with a revamp after this much time, the revision should either be *considerably* better at the *same* prices, OR, if it's only going to be *marginally* better, should really be accompanied by a price *point* drop to "make up for it". In this case, it appears to be a marginal improvement but at the same price points.

Caveat: I'm speaking purely from a marketing/PR point of view. In my own case, I'm planning on buying the Rev B iMac when it comes out anyway, NOT a PowerMac, and these PMac revisions are certainly a LOT better compared with my current single-processor 867MHz G4 QuickSilver model! It's all relative to how much time has passed and how much better it is than the *current* models, however.

[cosmoed]

iHoverboards...

WWDC 2012 :D

[gate]

I said it before but I think it needs repeating. While past performance is no indicator of future events, Apple has never released a product only to turn around TWO months later and release a better version of that product. The chances of a better, dual-core G5 being released in June is next to nothing (notice I didn't say completely nothing).
Use some logic.
From the 2.0s to the 2.5s, Apple waited a whole year. Do you not think people would wait the full year again if Apple could squeeze out the dual core in June? People sure would wait - as if they had any choice.
I see NO common sense in the arguement that Powermacs will be single core tomorrow and dual core in June. It's possible but not probable.

But what if they release something like a PRO line under a different name?

[psycho bob]

The most ignorant thing I've heard all day. AMD isn't somehow barred from ever making anything other than x86 processors. I would like to know why AMD would be unable to produce a suitable POWER CPU, when you think about it IBM was really kind of a bad partner to supply the actual chips in the first place. IBM is great at producing cutting edge technology, but not so great in implementing it like in the case of the G5. I think it would be wiser for companies like FreeScale and AMD to get the technology from IBM but to do the actual implementing themselve's.

I only wish Apple would see it this way, having IBM supply the technology and have an actual chip maker design and build the chips.

That makes sense the problem is I can't see IBM wanting to license the technology. Some of the technologies that the future G5's are supposed to be using will be compatible with any chip (SOI etc), this could help AMD develop faster x86/x64 chips.
I honestly can't believe though that a company like IBM with its huge resources cannot manage to develop a chip sufficiently. There must be something that we don't know about going on. I doubt (at least hope) they aren't still having 90nm problems.

[macnews]

I don't mind the speed bump, what do you expect when there is no major event to announce this stuff at right now? Granted, this makes something like dual cores an unlikely announcement in June or July - possibly even August.

I can understand the people who are more ticked off that it was almost two years ago when Steve said the G5 would be at 3.0Ghz in a year.... 2 years later (almost) and still .3Ghz short of the goal.

Can anyone explain why, in a powermac, they would short .3Ghz? I can't imagine the heat generated by that extra .3Ghz would be too much. And why this is so important - 1. Steve made the announcement, 2 years later this looks bad. 2. It is a mental barrier for mac users when comparing to PC users. Esp. when low end PC's come in at 2.8Ghz-3.0Ghz. Granted, the G5 will run faster but again, it is a mental thing to buyers.

[840quadra]

I love that my Rev. A Dual 2GHz is still going to be in the Power Mac lineup... 2 years later!!!

2.7GHz, is fast, but I fear not fast enough.

I have a REV B, and I couldn't be happier.

Rumor has it the new 2.0's are limited to 4gb of memory. From what it sounds like, it is an overclocked 1.8 GHZ.

[drewyboy]

Amazon is going to get it big from Steve... that is a for sure thing. They first blow it with Tiger, and now with PowerMacs... there has got to be something Apple is going to do to Amazon.

[840quadra]

But what if they release something like a PRO line under a different name?

If history is true, the Powermac IS the pro line of Macintosh.

I am curious to see benchmarks of the new processors, who knows.. the new 2.0 may be faster then the previous model (my model :( )

[deputy_doofy]

But what if they release something like a PRO line under a different name?

I'm not saying it isn't possible, but Steve Jobs' original plan was to keep the product line simple.

The eMac is for schools.
The iMac is for the consumer (prosumer).
The PowerMac is for the PROfessional.

I think adding another line of Macs would cannibalize the PowerMac sales. I know I'd spend another $500-$1000 just to have a dual-core. I'd find the money somehow.

I think another line called ProMacs is wishful thinking at best.

[sandau]

I'll bet those Amazon pictures are stock pictures.

my guess these new powermacs are black with the new black theme from apple.

and some of the specs aren't released, there are new widgets inside, perhaps not dual dualies, but something unique...

and why a 2.3 and not keep the 2.5? There is something else going on here. I realize that 2.5/2.7 wouldn't be a big gap for a price point but I have a feeling that there is a reason for the 2.3/2.7 vs. 2.5/2.7....they're 'different'.... :)

[John Rivers]

I'd just like to point out to all the people complaining about modest speed increases that my Rev. A dual 2.0 ghz G5 has been going strong for a year and a half having every kind of processor hungry video thrown at it (dv up to HD).
I understand the desire for apple products to improve and get better and faster but the people who talk about the G5 line as if it is hobbled aren't using one on a daily basis I think. I'm happy for those about to get a dual 2.7, it can only be an improvement on mine which is a stunning machine. :)


Understood entirely, but its not about being "good enough". The rationale I've had for not purchasing a powermac yet is that I don't feel I should be paying top dollar for technology that is outdated and already replaced (for example, the lack of PCI-Express is a BIG thing cause that's where everything is moving). Yea, Powermacs are fast fast fast, but if I'm paying $3000+ for a machine, I wanna make sure that investment lasts as long as possible (and again, with only AGP, the first road block to future upgrades has already appeared).

[imnoah]

I'll bet those Amazon pictures are stock pictures.

my guess these new powermacs are black with the new black theme from apple.

and some of the specs aren't released, there are new widgets inside, perhaps not dual dualies, but something unique...

This is Apple, not Alienware.

[Mac-Xpert]

I said it before but I think it needs repeating. While past performance is no indicator of future events, Apple has never released a product only to turn around TWO months later and release a better version of that product. The chances of a better, dual-core G5 being released in June is next to nothing (notice I didn't say completely nothing).
Use some logic.
From the 2.0s to the 2.5s, Apple waited a whole year. Do you not think people would wait the full year again if Apple could squeeze out the dual core in June? People sure would wait - as if they had any choice.
I see NO common sense in the arguement that Powermacs will be single core tomorrow and dual core in June. It's possible but not probable.I agree, the only thing I could see as remotely possible is that Apple would introduce the dual cores during WWDC but won't start shipping them before september, with production ramping up to the demands around october.

I think we can now safely say that the upcoming update is the worst Apple update ever. Not just the worst PM or G5. Even the last Powerbook update was much better in comparison giving us a 11% speed gain and several updated features (digital audio I/O, improved backlight, improved trackpad, etc.)

The G5 will only gain 8% speed and the 16X speed Dual-layer superdrive is already shipping in the current model, but with crippled firmware, so that's not really a upgrade at all. With no mentioning of the graphics card it's safe to presume it will remain the same also. So that only leaves the hard-disk going from 160 to 250 Gb. And no price cut.

That pretty much sounds like the worst update ever to me. :(

[gate]

[QUOTE=840quadra]If history is true, the Powermac IS the pro line of Macintosh.

Yeah right! I mean a real PRO line not a "Pro line" that comes with 512 megs of RAM. That's not serious.

[Eric5h5]

Well, I'm glad I got my dual 2.5 when I did...the 2.7 won't really be noticeably faster. It's not just IBM you know...remember Intel had to cancel their 4 GHz P4. (As for switching to AMD...does AMD make PPC processors? No? Then forget it.)

--Eric

[Frobozz]

This is the lamest PowerMac update in 2+ years. Really pathetic. If they don't drop the prices by 10% there is no way they'll boost sales. They'll be flat (as always) or down.

[jouster]

I tend to agree. Is a dual layer 16x that pricey? Surely 90 gig extra ram is nice....

Dual layer isn't all that pricey, but 90 gigs of RAM is about $29,000 at Apple's (admittedly inflated) prices....

So it certainly would be nice! :D









(I know...you meant 90 gig extra HD space...)

[ALoveSupreme]

Oh, come on, you know what I meant; they're keeping the same *price points* for the new models:

Old: $1,500 / $2,000 / $2,500 / $3,000

New: n/a / $2,000 / $2,500 / $3,000

When they come out with a revamp after this much time, the revision should either be *considerably* better at the *same* prices, OR, if it's only going to be *marginally* better, should really be accompanied by a price *point* drop to "make up for it". In this case, it appears to be a marginal improvement but at the same price points.


I am sorry I didn't know what you meant. But fine I agree. It's pretty dissapointing. Well I'll be waiting for a G5 PB (or something like that) anyway...

:cool:

[sandau]

This is Apple, not Alienware.

think different padawan. lol. hey at least 'paint it black' as the song goes... if you can't do a real upgrade, change the color.

[840quadra]

[QUOTE=840quadra]If history is true, the Powermac IS the pro line of Macintosh.

Yeah right! I mean a real PRO line not a "Pro line" that comes with 512 megs of RAM. That's not serious.

Well the prices are low with 512 megs of memory, if you want more upgrade the ram. i wouldn't buy a dell Precision with the Default RAM level.

Apple knows that a "pro" will upgrade their memory, and it is nice to buy the computer at a fair price, and go some place else to buy less expensive memory.

that's just my humble opinion though

840

[macmunch]

You dont check it or ???

WHY in HELL SHOULD Apple upgrad now and bring new Macs in June ?!?!?!?

Where is the point ?


crazy !

We wont see new PMs a minimum of 6 month i think Expo Paris is good or and tuesday update

[BlueDjinn]

I am sorry I didn't know what you meant. But fine I agree. It's pretty dissapointing.

Sorry myself, didn't mean to be snotty; I guess you're right that it's a matter of perspective--you can either look at it as "price drop on the old model plus two new models at the old prices" or "three new models at the old prices, one of which is similar to the old model"

Doesn't matter; bottom line is that it appears to be a weak upgrade, and they're likely to look pretty lame on my next System Shootouts update (which should be this or next week).

[Yvan256]

The most ignorant thing I've heard all day. AMD isn't somehow barred from ever making anything other than x86 processors. I would like to know why AMD would be unable to produce a suitable POWER CPU, when you think about it IBM was really kind of a bad partner to supply the actual chips in the first place. IBM is great at producing cutting edge technology, but not so great in implementing it like in the case of the G5. I think it would be wiser for companies like FreeScale and AMD to get the technology from IBM but to do the actual implementing themselve's.

I only wish Apple would see it this way, having IBM supply the technology and have an actual chip maker design and build the chips.

The most insulting thing I've heard all day (to continue the style).

AMD currently DOESN'T make PPC processors (to my knowledge). Also, they'd be required to license PPC (would IBM/Motorola/FreeScale allow competition?) You're imagining possible cases here, not relying on actual facts!

Let's see, I can imagine things too: I could also argue with you that you're also ignorant because Apple COULD release OS X for x86, Microsoft COULD buy Apple and shut them down (monopoly-shielding issues aside), FreeScale COULD make x86 processors, Sony COULD dump Microsoft and make a partnership with Apple. And the human race COULD live in peace and harmony (not gonna happen any time soon).

However, I do agree on your "IBM should innovates and the others do the actual production" idea. But those "others" are currently Motorola/FreeScale.
Unless there's other PPC manufacturers I'm not aware of.

[kerryb]

I know this upgrade is not really official as in from the lips of Steve but I would say Amazon messed up releasing the info although they probably got everything else correct. I'm not worried about the top of the line 2.7 being "not fast enough" like some posters here, it is really about the price points that I find disappointing. I bought my 2002 Quicksilver single 933 for $2000, it was the middle pro model of the three offered. Three years later this new lineup has the low-end G5 at $2000? Not much incentive to upgrade for me. The mac mini may get the attention of the transitional "switchers" or newbies to the Mac platform but I still think the higher end PC switchers will have sticker shock when checking out these machines. :(

[powerbook911]

I wouldn't have mind the minor updates, but a small price cut should have went along with it. Oh well, there is always the next update...

[macrobay]

You get all worked up over rumors and idealistic CRAP that you completely ignore that this IS a pretty nice PowerMac update. JEEEZE, I mean, what the HELL is the problem??? You get dual 2.7's, so now we're so close to the 3 mark to make the PC idiots squirm, even though we already beat them... Then you have a 250GB hard drive!!! That's friggin AWESOME! And FREE TIGER! And a friggin DUAL LAYER 16x Drive!!! C'mon people, this is awesome! And the prices will probably be the same, respectively! What the hell is wrong with that??? NOTHING! So quit your ignorant whining and wait until WWDC.

[duffman9000]

I'd have to say I'm very disappointed myself. Configuring a Dual 2.0 Opteron with 6 200GB SATA Hard Drives, 4GB of memory, and a 16X DVD-R is going to run you about $3,000. Is it worth it to pay nearly twice that for a G5 that you can't rackmount without reaching for your hacksaw? If I have to run a Mac only application, yes... but $6,000 will get you a fully loaded Dual 2.7, or a Quad Opteron 2.0. Folks, there's no argument there about processing power, unless one is completely off one's tod.

As time marches on, the lack of updates combined with zero price movement in the is really going to hurt. Don't get me wrong, I love Macs. I own enough of them, and I sell them too. But if another window manager for a *BSD or *nix gets stable and has good eye candy, Steve is going to have to figure something out. I'm not the only UNIX inclined nerd who's very disappointed with the lack of updates and price drops for the Apple line.

Having a nice price drop would make buying a desktop or laptop easier to swallow. Especially the laptops. Paying top dollar for old tech is crazy.

[le_coc]

You all talk about prices allready!! where do you see them ?
Amazon is not showing us any prices!!

so wait and see!

[myapplseedshurt]

Is it too foolish (or naive) to hope for 970MP for the update at this moment?..

yes.

[myapplseedshurt]

You all talk about prices allready!! where do you see them ?
Amazon is not showing us any prices!!

so wait and see!

put one of them in your cart, and it will show you the price. 2994.99

[cr2sh]

If these boys are air cooled I'm happy... cuz it brings us closer to what we all really want.

If they can air cool a 2.7GHz chip... I have to believe they can easily air cool a 1.6GHz chip.

Maybe even with a 1/2" thick heatsink.

[840quadra]

You get all worked up over rumors and idealistic CRAP that you completely ignore that this IS a pretty nice PowerMac update. JEEEZE, I mean, what the HELL is the problem??? You get dual 2.7's, so now we're so close to the 3 mark to make the PC idiots squirm, even though we already beat them... Then you have a 250GB hard drive!!! That's friggin AWESOME! And FREE TIGER! And a friggin DUAL LAYER 16x Drive!!! C'mon people, this is awesome! And the prices will probably be the same, respectively! What the hell is wrong with that??? NOTHING! So quit your ignorant whining and wait until WWDC.

You need less coffee in the morning :)

I agree that the upgrade is nice. I understand that apple promised us 3GHZ last year and didn't make it.

Life sometimes sucks, I think people should get over the 3GHZ Buzz word. I am curious to see real world Benchmarks on the new 2.7 chips. I don't live off of Bench numbers, If I did I wouldn't have bought a G5. For most of us it is the stable OS and Hardware that keeps us going back to Apple.

[duffman9000]

You get all worked up over rumors and idealistic CRAP that you completely ignore that this IS a pretty nice PowerMac update. JEEEZE, I mean, what the HELL is the problem??? You get dual 2.7's, so now we're so close to the 3 mark to make the PC idiots squirm, even though we already beat them... Then you have a 250GB hard drive!!! That's friggin AWESOME! And FREE TIGER! And a friggin DUAL LAYER 16x Drive!!! C'mon people, this is awesome! And the prices will probably be the same, respectively! What the hell is wrong with that??? NOTHING! So quit your ignorant whining and wait until WWDC.

LOL... whoa... how about IT'S ABOUT FREAKING TIME??? 16X Dual layer burners have been out for pc's since... august? 250 GB hard drives are pedestrian when other OEM's include larger drives in their top models. Of course the OS is free, it better be since you just paid for the rest of the system.

[Squire]

Pricey? Of course it isn't. I bought a Sony DRU-700A Dual Layer 8x burner (fit's nicely in my 2001 Quicksilver) for about $169 at Best Buy. Lo and behold, a few months later, Sony comes out with a 16x Dual Layer burner and Best Buy was selling it for $139!!!

Oh well... :rolleyes:

My 16x DL burner in my iMac was about $75.

The world’s first all formats compatible, dual layer, true 16x (+R/-R) DVD Rewriter. Stores up to 8.5GB (DVD +R DL). Access time: CD-ROM 125msec, DVD-ROM 145msec, DVD-RAM 165msec. 2MB buffer memory with buffer under run technology.

Squire

[minimax]

Well that's certainly a bit disappointing. Strange that the range is now 2.0GHz, 2.3GHz and 2.7GHz. Why not keep the 2.5GHz?

I bet Apple are really chuffed that Amazon has leaked this out early!

They did not keep the 2.5 ghz because the 2.3 ghz most likely is the 2.5 without watercooling. Remember, all chips come from the same wafer (slower and faster) and they are put on a specific frequency depending on their performance (leakage). That they needed to do this shows they really hit a brick wall on 2.5 ghz where intel hit it with approx 3.75 ghz. I assume the new 2.7 ghz works on watercooling and would be able to work on 2.5 ghz without.
I think they should have gone that direction. It's more honoust IMO.

Jobs 2004: "Behold, the all new dual 2.5 with state-of-the-art whisper quiet watercooling technology"
Jobs one year later: "Behold, the all new dual 2.5 without watercooling!!"

[LionelEHutz]

I'll bet those Amazon pictures are stock pictures.

my guess these new powermacs are black with the new black theme from apple.

and some of the specs aren't released, there are new widgets inside, perhaps not dual dualies, but something unique...

and why a 2.3 and not keep the 2.5? There is something else going on here. I realize that 2.5/2.7 wouldn't be a big gap for a price point but I have a feeling that there is a reason for the 2.3/2.7 vs. 2.5/2.7....they're 'different'.... :)


Maybe the 2.5 will be shifted to the Xserve? Right now the top of the line Xserve uses a dual 2.3

If this 2.7 thing is true then I don't feel too bad about having one of the 2.5's, which is fast as all heck and virtually silent -- a plus for the liquid cooling.

[toontra]

This is doubly bad. Firstly a c**p revision, and secondly, this means several months wait till a decent speed bump/PCIe/dual core announcement. WWDC is out or I reckon they would have waited till then.

Dual-layer drive - BIG DEAL! You can get & fit these for a few bucks (no-one uses dual-layer at the moment anyway cause the media is too expensive).

Think this smacks of desperation. I'm really pissed & I think Apple will suffer for this. They ain't getting any of my money for one!

[themacman]

new emacs finally. he shipping is 5-7. Maybe G5? So today will be imacs, emacs, powermacs, and garageband breakout box.

[fixyourthinking]

will these machine likely REQUIRE tiger? wonder if they'll boot 10.3.9?

Why would you WANT to - Tiger shows 30% increases in some areas on a G5 over 10.3!

[Frobozz]

Is it still at least *conceivable* that these new models are dual-core? The specs at Amazon leave out some key items such as video card, PCI type, etc...still hoping...

Assuming that these are NOT dual core, and are instead just slightly-faster versions of the current G5s, I'm astonished that there isn't an accompanying price drop, at the very least.

I gotta figure that this is PURELY a temporary stop-gap to a) allow them to release the bumped-up iMacs, and b) to hold things over until WWDC...

I agree with you for the most part. Perhaps they will mention dual core plans at WWDC in June if they are not released tomorrow. However, I wouldn't plan on seeing the dual core PM's until September if that was the case. The only problem I see, is that the product cycle on the macs released tomorrow would be way too short. It doesn't fit the normal time span.

I'm curious. I, too, believe this is the lamest update since the G4 introduction fiasco UNLESS they:

a) Reduce prices 10%
b) At minimum, the top end is a dual core (though it seems more likely they all would be.)
c) Have other hardware imrovements we have not seen (and I don't expect): PCI-E, HT 2.0, DDR2 667 ram, etc.

[tromboneaholic]

I know this upgrade is not really official as in from the lips of Steve but I would say Amazon messed up releasing the info although they probably got everything else correct. I'm not worried about the top of the line 2.7 being "not fast enough" like some posters here, it is really about the price points that I find disappointing. I bought my 2002 Quicksilver single 933 for $2000, it was the middle pro model of the three offered. Three years later this new lineup has the low-end G5 at $2000? Not much incentive to upgrade for me. The mac mini may get the attention of the transitional "switchers" or newbies to the Mac platform but I still think the higher end PC switchers will have sticker shock when checking out these machines. :(


I couldn't agree more! I still have the 733 mhz quicksilver because I haven't been at all impressed with the pricing on powermacs.


Price points should be:

1500/2000/2500


Especially with all that slimey egg goo running down Steve's face after he promised 3 ghz.

It looks like Apple is not serious about the powermac.

I knew this would happen when Apple created a seperate iPod division...

[themacman]

I agree with you for the most part. Perhaps they will mention dual core plans at WWDC in June if they are not released tomorrow. However, I wouldn't plan on seeing the dual core PM's until September if that was the case. The only problem I see, is that the product cycle on the macs released tomorrow would be way too short. It doesn't fit the normal time span.

I'm curious. I, too, believe this is the lamest update since the G4 introduction fiasco UNLESS they:

a) Reduce prices 10%
b) At minimum, the top end is a dual core (though it seems more likely they all would be.)
c) Have other hardware imrovements we have not seen (and I don't expect): PCI-E, HT 2.0, DDR2 667 ram, etc.
What happend wiht the realse of a G4?

[tromboneaholic]

Why would you WANT to - Tiger shows 30% increases in some areas on a G5 over 10.3!

At least a stable OS like 10.2.8 would be something to wonder about...

[DakotaGuy]

This is the lamest PowerMac update in 2+ years. Really pathetic. If they don't drop the prices by 10% there is no way they'll boost sales. They'll be flat (as always) or down.

Lame, really pathetic? Do you realize how much faster a 2.7Ghz Dual running with Dual 1.33Ghz FSB's would be compared to what your signature line has in it??? I have to laugh when people complain and say they would never buy a slow POS like a 2.7Ghz Dual and personally own a computer that is not even in the same league speed wise. I would be happy to take a 2.7 Dual over my 1.8Ghz iMac anyday!

[Frobozz]

You get all worked up over rumors and idealistic CRAP that you completely ignore that this IS a pretty nice PowerMac update. JEEEZE, I mean, what the HELL is the problem??? You get dual 2.7's, so now we're so close to the 3 mark to make the PC idiots squirm, even though we already beat them... Then you have a 250GB hard drive!!! That's friggin AWESOME! And FREE TIGER! And a friggin DUAL LAYER 16x Drive!!! C'mon people, this is awesome! And the prices will probably be the same, respectively! What the hell is wrong with that??? NOTHING! So quit your ignorant whining and wait until WWDC.

Welcome, Steve Jobs. Perhaps you have some insight? B/c otherwise I'll stick to my guns on this: LAMEST POWERMAC UPDATE since the G4 fiasco.

[tromboneaholic]

Welcome, Steve Jobs. Perhaps you have some insight? B/c otherwise I'll stick to my guns on this: LAMEST POWERMAC UPDATE since the G4 fiasco.

You are correct...it's an embarassment...the price is more of an issue than the speed.

[Yvan256]

You get all worked up over rumors and idealistic CRAP that you completely ignore that this IS a pretty nice PowerMac update. JEEEZE, I mean, what the HELL is the problem??? You get dual 2.7's, so now we're so close to the 3 mark to make the PC idiots squirm, even though we already beat them... Then you have a 250GB hard drive!!! That's friggin AWESOME! And FREE TIGER! And a friggin DUAL LAYER 16x Drive!!! C'mon people, this is awesome! And the prices will probably be the same, respectively! What the hell is wrong with that??? NOTHING! So quit your ignorant whining and wait until WWDC.

People were expecting better, they're dissapointed. But I agree, those "other specs" were rumors, not facts.

BUT:

We did see some changes in a system tool to allow room for more than two processors. This is a fact. It's normal for people to expect quad-CPUs PowerMacs. We also know IBM has dual-core PPCs (970FX or something).

We still don't know if there's other improvements (PCI-E or PCI-X, not sure which one is the "good one"). Stuff like this would make the new PowerMacs more attractive. The AGP is getting old and the competition has already dropped it (for the most part).

The 250GB is nice, but it's nothing spectacular (anyone has been able to go out and buy a 250GB drive for quite some time now). If that's the top-of-the-line PowerMac, I'd expect to see more than 250GB in it. Heck, you can BTO the current iMac G5 to 250GB. So, while 250GB is nice, it's nothing to write about. Especially for the top-of-the-line PowerMac. It should come with two of these, if you ask me (half-Terabyte storage would be good for marketing).

"Free" Tiger? Sorry, but that's included in the price of the computer. This is software, easily duplicated, on a 1$ DVD, plus printed manuals (let's put aside development costs).

As for the Dual Layer DVD-RW drives, well, it's about time. They've been available for some time now. The speed does seem impressive but I just mean the previous PowerMac/iMac should've had dual-layer drives, long ago.

In short: nice updates, but nothing amazing.

[SweetFeet]

I'm expecting there to be more. Whether it be a new case design (anodized black gets my vote), or (hopefully) an updated keyboard and mouse - which we know they've been working on. Still don't know about the video card, either, or BT, etc.

Pardon my stupid question, but will the BM Apple Stores be open late on Friday because the Tiger Release 'Party'?

[cube]

No, I believe that would be the one where the 450MHz G4 was substituted for the 500MHz G4. At least PowerMac speed bumps go forward these days, not back.

No. The worst one was the last PowerMac G4 release.

[machan]

You know, this is the sort of update that should have happened 6 months ago. I really wish the Powermac update cycle was faster, but at the same time it makes my Rev. B feel like as good an investment as is possible these days.

Also, they should give away iPods with the Powermacs. At least then sales would increase.

[DakotaGuy]

Welcome, Steve Jobs. Perhaps you have some insight? B/c otherwise I'll stick to my guns on this: LAMEST POWERMAC UPDATE since the G4 fiasco.

Too bad that LAME 2.7Ghz is only a few hundred percent faster then what you own.

[minimax]

Lame, really pathetic? Do you realize how much faster a 2.7Ghz Dual running with Dual 1.33Ghz FSB's would be compared to what you signature line has in it? I have to laugh when people complain and say they would never buy a slow POS like a 2.7Ghz Dual and personally own a computer that is not even in the same league speed wise. I would be happy to take a 2.7 Dual over my 1.8Ghz iMac anyday!

I think you don't understand the issue. It's not about what we need it is about price / performance compared to the windows platform. Apple is seriously slacking. They have the hype with ipod, itunes, itms, tiger etc. but for it to grow into a solid trend they need competitive hardware to support it.

[Mac-Xpert]

Lame, really pathetic? Do you realize how much faster a 2.7Ghz Dual running with Dual 1.33Ghz FSB's would be compared to what your signature line has in it??? Hmm, do you realize how much faster a 2.7Ghz Dual running with Dual 1.33Ghz FSB's would be compared to MY signature ;)

That's what I would call, Lame, really pathetic :(

[Frobozz]

Lame, really pathetic? Do you realize how much faster a 2.7Ghz Dual running with Dual 1.33Ghz FSB's would be compared to what you signature line has in it? I have to laugh when people complain and say they would never buy a slow POS like a 2.7Ghz Dual and personally own a computer that is not even in the same league speed wise. I would be happy to take a 2.7 Dual over my 1.8Ghz iMac anyday!

It'd be like a gazillion times faster. No doubt. But when I bought my DP Quicksilver it was $2,500 at the top of the line-- $500 less than today.

See, my problem isn't that I need a new Mac *now.* It's that I need a new Mac that will last me 3 or 4 years. My PC, while it runs Windows (eeech) has specs that my Mac needs. And I'm a Mac head, so my primary desktop will always be Mac. I want:

1) Dual Core. Ideally at 3.0 GHz or above.
2) HT 2.0
3) PCI-E
4) DDR2 667 Ram
5) Blu-ray (i can always dream)

And that's when I'll update. I'll put it this way-- I need something to make me jump at the new machines. The iPod was out for like 2 or 3 years and I never wanted one until the Mini came out. The second it did, I bought one. I need a big improvement over what is there now to spend my fun money on.

[Eric5h5]

I love how some people are acting so personally insulted that there isn't a huge speed increase. Do you think they're holding back just to annoy you? ("Heh heh, here we are swimming in a huge tub of 3.5GHz G5 chips...I know, let's--get this--NOT USE THEM! Boy, that'll really get'em! Ha ha ha!") Where is it written that computer technology must always forge ahead at a breakneck pace? There's this little thing called "physics" that limits what you can do. Look into it. Sooner or later there won't be any more speed bumps AT ALL, unless there's a switch to a radically different technology. Quantum computers or something....

--Eric

[DakotaGuy]

Hmm, do you realize how much faster a 2.7Ghz Dual running with Dual 1.33Ghz FSB's would be compared to MY signature ;)

That's what I would call, Lame, really pathetic :(

Hey no one is forcing anyone to buy this garbage and piece of trash Apple is building, so if you don't like the POS don't buy it. If I needed a PowerMac, I would probably buy the 2.3Ghz model, but I know many people on this board would need a computer much faster then that.

[numediaman]

I love how some people are acting so personally insulted that there isn't a huge speed increase. Do you think they're holding back just to annoy you?
--Eric

Gee, I hadn't thought of that. Now I'm really mad!
:D

[ImAlwaysRight]

Pricing is very very very weak.

2k for a Dual 2.0? That model is now 2 years old.
Hey, that's cool for people trying to resell, like me. I sold my dual 2.0 G5 PM over the weekend for a few hundred less than I paid for it 20 months ago!!!! Talk about resale value. Macs are a great investment. :p Ok, not what most of you wanted to hear, but that's one way to look at it.

[tromboneaholic]

I love how some people are acting so personally insulted that there isn't a huge speed increase. Do you think they're holding back just to annoy you? ("Heh heh, here we are swimming in a huge tub of 3.5GHz G5 chips...I know, let's--get this--NOT USE THEM! Boy, that'll really get'em! Ha ha ha!") Where is it written that computer technology must always forge ahead at a breakneck pace? There's this little thing called "physics" that limits what you can do. Look into it. Sooner or later there won't be any more speed bumps AT ALL, unless there's a switch to a radically different technology. Quantum computers or something....

--Eric


You seem to have missed the fact that the price apple pays for this hardware has gone down dramatically, yet they are charging a premium price for outdated specs.

That is the problem.

I hope you can understand it now.

[DakotaGuy]

1) Dual Core. Ideally at 3.0 GHz or above.
2) HT 2.0
3) PCI-E
4) DDR2 667 Ram
5) Blu-ray (i can always dream)

And that's when I'll update. I'll put it this way-- I need something to make me jump at the new machines. The iPod was out for like 2 or 3 years and I never wanted one until the Mini came out. The second it did, I bought one. I need a big improvement over what is there now to spend my fun money on.

It will happen. maybe not this time around, but it will. Remember the iMac G5? It was a HUGE step from the iMac G4. Same way with the PowerMac G5 from the G4.

[numediaman]

Time to look for a returned, discounted model.

CDW was selling a 2X 2.0 machine with a super drive for $1499 (on a bench of returned items). Problem was that inside the box was a single 1.8 with a combo drive. Nice guys aren't they?

[myapplseedshurt]

.... but I know many people on this board would need a computer much faster then that.

I'm calculating pi to see if it ends. I need all the power I can get, geez.

I figure if pi ends, then there IS finite quanta values (smallest unit of anything in the universe has a discrete value), which means nothing in the universe is left to continuous distributions, which means nothing is random, which means our thoughts are predictable, which means we don't have free will.

got it?

[Blue Moon]

Has anyone noticed that the new Appleinsider story on Powermac shipments now places the announcement for these new machines for tomorrow (Wednesday)? We all might be repeatedly refreshing the Apple page for nothing. :(

[tmiller12]

Ok...I am new here, and I am a PC user, who is WAITING to get into the MAC world with the purchase of a new iMac...and I am surprised no one has brought this up before...

Could it be that this Amazon listing is a "phish" hoax to get mac users to turn over their credit card numbers? It may sound a little "conspiracy theory" but I find it odd that a search within Amazon will not yield the results for these pages...you have to go directly to the link...just a concern...

Anyway...I am anxiously awaiting the release of upgraded iMacs...a few days ago, I received a "coupon" for $30 off at the Apple Store...set to expire 14 days later...I wonder if that is another indication that it might be a little longer for updated computers....

tyler

[Devie]

I hope to see a price drop of about $200 AUD on the Dual 2.0 (compared to the price of the current Dual 1.8). Then I will be extreemly happy :D.

[puckhead193]

Finally, dual layer DVD burning. I wish this update would have reached the 3 GHZ but new updates are good

[aussie_geek]

Has anyone noticed that the new Appleinsider story on Powermac shipments now places the announcement for these new machines for tomorrow (Wednesday)? We all might be repeatedly refreshing the Apple page for nothing. :(


I say we persist until 9 am in California - just over an hour away. If there are no announcements on Apple.com after that, assume that it will be tomorrow. What do you think?

aussie_geek


edit:
How many of you are actually refreshing the AppleStore page? - It's sad to admit but I am!!! :rolleyes:

[SweetFeet]

Could it be that this Amazon listing is a "phish" hoax to get mac users to turn over their credit card numbers? It may sound a little "conspiracy theory" but I find it odd that a search within Amazon will not yield the results for these pages...you have to go directly to the link...just a concern...

I wondered the same thing - why can I not search for the new machines within Amazon? If you can't search for it, how did anyone find it?

[DakotaGuy]

One other thing...I wonder if liquid cooling is a thing of the past on these computers? I wonder if Apple discontinued the 2.5 and went with a 2.3 for the mid-level model because it can be air-cooled which will save money. Seems logical to me. The 2.7 might still be liquid cooled though.

[le_coc]

I say we persist until 9 am in California - just over an hour away. If there are no announcements on Apple.com after that, assume that it will be tomorrow. What do you think?
aussie_geek

That 09:00 am in Calafornia is still 2 hours away!! ;)

Nope sorry you are right!! nice waking up for mister Steve.... Amazon is offering his powermacs allready! He will be PISSED!

[iGary]

Wrll, I got what I wanted, a dual 2.0 under 2,000, and with my edu discount it'll prolly be 1700 or 1800 something.

Now I have to decide whether to keep the G4 tower and finally make the jump to serving my own website, or sell it towards the new machine. :confused:

That said, a very lame update. Lame indeed. 1 year = 200MHz.

[propropro]

I hope to see a price drop of about $200 AUD on the Dual 2.0 (compared to the price of the current Dual 1.8). Then I will be extreemly happy :D.
You are not getting it. Look a the amazon.com. The new 2.0 will cost exactly the same as the old 1.8

[tromboneaholic]

I wondered the same thing - why can I not search for the new machines within Amazon? If you can't search for it, how did anyone find it?

perhaps someon a Amazon leaked the pages...


it is not phishing because other items appeared in my cart that I put in there on previous visits...

[adamfilip]

I'd just like to point out to all the people complaining about modest speed increases that my Rev. A dual 2.0 ghz G5 has been going strong for a year and a half having every kind of processor hungry video thrown at it (dv up to HD).
I understand the desire for apple products to improve and get better and faster but the people who talk about the G5 line as if it is hobbled aren't using one on a daily basis I think. I'm happy for those about to get a dual 2.7, it can only be an improvement on mine which is a stunning machine. :)

it doesnt matter if they are quick already its the lack of progress in a year
thats the problem.

also they are not keepingup with the jones's. Dual Core processors should be in this update

also consider the fact that some people may have a bigger speed requirement then you.

[tromboneaholic]

That 09:00 am in Calafornia is still 2 hours away!! ;)


8 + 2 = 9?

since when?

[840quadra]

LOL... whoa... how about IT'S ABOUT FREAKING TIME??? 16X Dual layer burners have been out for pc's since... august? 250 GB hard drives are pedestrian when other OEM's include larger drives in their top models. Of course the OS is free, it better be since you just paid for the rest of the system.

Woa, settle down.

I have been a Macintosh user for years, and never did I poke slander at the PC world because they were Behind on adopting technologies that Apple used first, or adopted more quickly. If or when Apple has the next innovative or state of the art component, I will try not to exhibit the same attitude in the direction of the PC world.

We all know none of these items are state of the art, I don't think the poster you replied to was saying they were. Larger hard drives on many systems are "options" in most cases in systems such as Dell and gamer popular Alienware.

The top Dell Precision currently has 512 Memory, and an 80GB for it's base configuration. The XPS is also Default at 512mb of Memory, and a 160gb HDD. Alienware is slightly better offering a base of 1gb of memory in most cases, but the Default hard drive is still 80GB for most systems. Like Apple, if you want bigger and better installed on these systems, you pay extra.

And before you label me as a "zealot" make note that I too have an AMD equipped Gamer system in my arsenal, I love that system as much as my G5 , for it's own unique purposes and reasons.

840

[fps]

So so so happy to have bought my dual 2.0Ghz as soon as Rev.B came out :)
They could have gone for 1Gb of RAM and a top of the range video card though... at least on the dual 2.7GHz.
Pleased I enjoyed my powermac for the last 9 months :p

[scu]

This is bad news. :(

Don't get me wrong. The update is not that bad. They will sale quite a few of these machines. For those who have waited, they will get a descent machines in the 2.7 GHZ.

The bad news is that this update confirms how far behind IBM and Apple are when it comes to better technology. It means we may not see a big jump until Jan 2006. Apple might release a faster top of the line system in Oct. the way they did last year.

I just hope they lower their prices a little to make this update a little more respectable.

[deputy_doofy]

I'm calculating pi to see if it ends. I need all the power I can get, geez.

I figure if pi ends, then there IS finite quanta values (smallest unit of anything in the universe has a discrete value), which means nothing in the universe is left to continuous distributions, which means nothing is random, which means our thoughts are predictable, which means we don't have free will.

got it?

I'm guessing you never saw the movie Pi, or you'd know what happens if you get too close to that answer. :P

[Mac-Xpert]

Hey no one is forcing anyone to buy this garbage and piece of trash Apple is building, so if you don't like the POS don't buy it. If I needed a PowerMac, I would probably buy the 2.3Ghz model, but I know many people on this board would need a computer much faster then that.I think the real problem with this update is that people will be able to buy a AMD X2 Athlon (dual core) in a couple of weeks (around june) that will perform quite similar to a Dual G5 2.5/2.7 for a fraction of the price. If as others here have said, Apple would drop the price a couple of hundred dollars and update other features significantly (like putting at least a Radeon 9800 XT 256MB in it) than it would be a decent update. The way things are looking right now it's just crap.

Although I wouldn't switch to Windows unless I was forced to, I does mean that I, and I think a lot of other people will wait until Apple can come up with a machine that actually is worth the money they are asking for it.

I don't mind spending 3000 euro on it, but I do want something that will perform at a reasonable performance level for at least 3 years, like the original G5 has done.

[minimax]

Ok...I am new here, and I am a PC user, who is WAITING to get into the MAC world with the purchase of a new iMac...and I am surprised no one has brought this up before...

Could it be that this Amazon listing is a "phish" hoax to get mac users to turn over their credit card numbers? It may sound a little "conspiracy theory" but I find it odd that a search within Amazon will not yield the results for these pages...you have to go directly to the link...just a concern...

Anyway...I am anxiously awaiting the release of upgraded iMacs...a few days ago, I received a "coupon" for $30 off at the Apple Store...set to expire 14 days later...I wonder if that is another indication that it might be a little longer for updated computers....

tyler


err...I don't think you have received 'phish' mails yet...or if you did you might have a problem right now. You can easily spot "phish" sites because they have a different URL then the original. It is impossible for a phishing site to use the same address as the actual company.

[Devie]

You are not getting it. Look a the amazon.com. The new 2.0 will cost exactly the same as the old 1.8
Yeah I saw that, but who knows? Since the last update I beleive our dollar has gotten quite a gain on the US dollar. Maybe even tax been stripped down a bit?

Shutup I havve to stay positive :p. If it comes at $200.00 cheaper, then I should be able to get a 20" Dell widescreen with it... (hopefully I can anyway, I havnt really looked how much money I have all up, about $4400 I beleive.)

[HelloKitty]

I guess the important question now becomes.."when's the next update (after this update) gonna be?"..

Or more precisely.."When will Apple come up with a dual core machine?"..

I guess it definitely gives me time to save some more money..

[cc bcc]

Abercrombieboy, you use Comic Sans in your sig, you're not worthy a mac! :eek:
;)

[deputy_doofy]

Ok...I am new here, and I am a PC user, who is WAITING to get into the MAC world with the purchase of a new iMac...and I am surprised no one has brought this up before...

Could it be that this Amazon listing is a "phish" hoax to get mac users to turn over their credit card numbers? It may sound a little "conspiracy theory" but I find it odd that a search within Amazon will not yield the results for these pages...you have to go directly to the link...just a concern...

Anyway...I am anxiously awaiting the release of upgraded iMacs...a few days ago, I received a "coupon" for $30 off at the Apple Store...set to expire 14 days later...I wonder if that is another indication that it might be a little longer for updated computers....

tyler

Thank you for this post. I have searched numerous times and cannot find the "new" Powermacs anywhere on Amazon.

[topgunn]

perhaps someon a Amazon leaked the pages...


it is not phishing because other items appeared in my cart that I put in there on previous visits...
Go to amazon.com, click on electronics. See box that says "New Power Macs".

[AidenShaw]

Remeber though that IBM use the Dual core.. but it doesn't come cheap. So I am sure if they wanted to use the Power line up they could but they would cost more... and use more juice.

Note that the dual-core POWER4 and POWER5 chips do not have VMX (aka AltiVec).

That could hit the programs that are AltiVec-aware - as well as introducing another incompatible instruction set option (POWER 64-bit w/o VMX) for the compilers and developers.

[machan]

Has anyone noticed that the new Appleinsider story on Powermac shipments now places the announcement for these new machines for tomorrow (Wednesday)? We all might be repeatedly refreshing the Apple page for nothing. :(


When there's a Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday update, it is always up on Apple's site by 8am central time. The only time it's different is for expos, Macworlds, NABs, etc.

[840quadra]

Note that the dual-core POWER4 and POWER5 chips do not have VMX (aka AltiVec).

That could hit the programs that are AltiVec-aware - as well as introducing another incompatible instruction set option (POWER 64-bit w/o VMX) for the compilers and developers.


That is a good point.. I am wondering if VMX is the stumbling block that is causing IBM to be behind on production of DC for the PowerPC lineup.

[mandis]

I suppose you have all seen “The Pirates of the Silicon Valley”.

In the words of Bill Gates: Success is a menace. It makes smart people think they can’t lose…

May 2005: Apple introduces the dual 2.7Ghz G5, claiming it to be the fastest workstation in the world!!! :)

June 2005: AMD introduces the DUAL DUAL-CORE 2.8Gghz OPTERON (AT A VERY COMPETITIVE PRICE…) :eek:

September 2005: Apple introduces the all new MAC MICRO, smaller than an i-Pod and fully loaded with the AMAZING PPC G3 at 567Mhz and the MIND-BLOWING FX5200!!!! :mad:

November 2005: Apple sells it’s computer department to a Chinese company, in order to concentrate on new i-Pods and software development. :confused:

These Powermac updates just seem so wrong…

[ravenvii]

Eh, you people are making mountains out of molehills. The fastest Athlon processors are at 2.6 GHz aren't they? Why is 2.7 so bad? It's equivalent with the market as a general. Not behind or ahead, just equal. I'm not fainting at the awesomeness of the update or anything, but it's not horrible compared to the market. The only negative you can really throw at Apple/IBM is that the updates aren't constant enough. AMD tends to push their processors about 100 MHz at a time, while Apple/IBM just waits a while, then bumps them 200-300 MHz at a time.

And all those hoping for WWDC, have fun in your little fantasy world, Apple ain't gonna do that kind of update in TWO months.

[840quadra]

I suppose you have all seen “The Pirates of the Silicon Valley”.


May 2005: Apple introduces the dual 2.7Ghz G5, claiming it to be the fastest workstation in the world!!! :)



When and were did Apple say that?

[SweetFeet]

Go to amazon.com, click on electronics. See box that says "New Power Macs".

I only see that box if I click from the MacRumors.com link to Amazon. If I type in Amazon.com, that box doesn't show up.

[neoelectronaut]

Oh noes! It's 2.7Ghz instead of 3 Ghz! That 300mhz will bring about the end of days!

...seriously. Goddamn. It's a computer.

[840quadra]

Eh, you people are making mountains out of molehills. The fastest Athlon processors are at 2.6 GHz aren't they? Why is 2.7 so bad? It's equivalent with the market as a general. Not behind or ahead, just equal. I'm not fainting at the awesomeness of the update or anything, but it's not horrible compared to the market. The only negative you can really throw at Apple/IBM is that the updates aren't constant enough. AMD tends to push their processors about 100 MHz at a time, while Apple/IBM just waits a while, then bumps them 200-300 MHz at a time.

And all those hoping for WWDC, have fun in your little fantasy world, Apple ain't gonna do that kind of update in TWO months.

Awesome points.

This 3GHZ buzz word is the biggest problem. Yes I know, Apple did promise 3Ghz and didn't deliver, it will live in infamy forever, but not having 3GHZ will not be the end of the world mind you.

[John Rivers]

browsed through amazon, clicked on Electronics > Computers > Desktops > Apple > Powermacs.

Nothing new.

The phishing thing might not be all to far fetched...its definitely possible. I mean, how conveniently simple would it be for someone to make a amazon site clone with the EXACT specs previously hinted, KNOWING that it would get found, linked, and announced to the hundreds of us who follow this stuff?

[aussie_geek]

That 09:00 am in Calafornia is still 2 hours away!! ;)

Nope sorry you are right!! nice waking up for mister Steve.... Amazon is offering his powermacs allready! He will be PISSED!

It seems that they have daylight savings time in effect - so the time is 1 hr in advance.

I got the time from time and date . com (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/results.html?query=california).

Am I right :confused:

aussie_geek

[ravenvii]

June 2005: AMD introduces the DUAL DUAL-CORE 2.8Gghz OPTERON (AT A VERY COMPETITIVE PRICE…) :eek:

See? That's just one small example of what I mean of fantasy world.

First, ONE of those Opteron dual-core processors cost $1,400 APIECE. Competitive? In it's market, yes, but against Apple?... Not really.

[Skull Leader]

[QUOTE=MacRy]Well that's certainly a bit disappointing. Strange that the range is now 2.0GHz, 2.3GHz and 2.7GHz. Why not keep the 2.5GHz?

Does anyone else here think that the 2.5GHz chips were really overclocked 2.3's?? I guess if the new 2.7GHz chips don't require radiator coolant to run then they would be 'genuinely' faster processors and that's a good thing.

Skull Leader
www.skullsquadron.com

[topgunn]

I only see that box if I click from the MacRumors.com link to Amazon. If I type in Amazon.com, that box doesn't show up.
They have apparently removed the "New Power Mac" banners from the site however the direct link still works. Surely Apple's doing.

[SweetFeet]

browsed through amazon, clicked on Electronics > Computers > Desktops > Apple > Powermacs.

Nothing new.

I would think that Apple would have shut down that part of Amazon already if it were a genuine leak.

[mandis]

When and were did Apple say that?

They didn't! In fact they haven't said anything about the new powermacs yet!!!

I'm just being sarcastic...

I was expecting quite a bit more from this update, as did most people. :(

[Mac-Xpert]

See? That's just one small example of what I mean of fantasy world.

First, ONE of those Opteron dual-core processors cost $1,400 APIECE. Competitive? In it's market, yes, but against Apple?... Not really.You do realize that AMD will also release the dual core Athlon in june for a lot less.

That's the problem, not the Opteron.

[minimax]

browsed through amazon, clicked on Electronics > Computers > Desktops > Apple > Powermacs.

Nothing new.

The phishing thing might not be all to far fetched...its definitely possible. I mean, how conveniently simple would it be for someone to make a amazon site clone with the EXACT specs previously hinted, KNOWING that it would get found, linked, and announced to the hundreds of us who follow this stuff?

yes and your computer can catch a virus if it has unprotected sex :rolleyes:

[sandau]

M9747LL/A
M9749LL/A

anyone know how to read apple's part numbers? those are the top new models...does the /A mean anything?

[blackcrayon]

[QUOTE=MacRy]Well that's certainly a bit disappointing. Strange that the range is now 2.0GHz, 2.3GHz and 2.7GHz. Why not keep the 2.5GHz?

Does anyone else here think that the 2.5GHz chips were really overclocked 2.3's?? I guess if the new 2.7GHz chips don't require radiator coolant to run then they would be 'genuinely' faster processors and that's a good thing.

Skull Leader
www.skullsquadron.com


Then people will argue, "Why didn't they just use the liquid cooling and get it to run at 3 ghz?" :)

[DakotaGuy]

Abercrombieboy, you use Comic Sans in your sig, you're not worthy a mac! :eek:
;)

I guess I don't get what you are saying. The choice of a font should have nothing to do with what kind of computer I am worthy of running. The only thing that has anything to do with that is my checkbook. Sorry if it is meant to be a joke, I am just having a bad day I guess. :(

[ravenvii]

You do realize that AMD will also release the dual core Athlon in june for a lot less.

That's the problem, not the Opteron.

Yes I do realize that. However, 1) HE says Opteron. And 2) those Athlons can't work in dual configurations. So they're basically "finally" catching up with Apple's dual processors.

[AidenShaw]

With all this talk of dual-core CPUs, I thought I'd add my two cents. I think Intel's dual-core solution is over-hyped at this point.

The real news with Intel's dual core offering is that it will push the price-point of dual CPU systems way down.

This will be more apparent with the next Intel dual-core desktop chip - the Pentium D. It is expected to be priced very close to single core chips.

Instead of Xeons and dual-cpu motherboards, mainstream low-priced desktops will have dual processors.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1786693,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

According to Intel's Love, Intel will ship "millions" of dual-core parts this year, but the company anticipates that dual-core shipmets will make up 70 percent of its server processor shipments and 85 percent of its desktop and mobile shipments at the end of 2006.

That's the real significance, not whatever the facts about the first dual-core chip are.

[plinden]

Guys, to put this into perspective, I did a bit of research. The following is the speed increase of various processors over about the past 2 years.

G5 GHz:
2.0-2.7 (35% increase) in 22 months

Pentium-M GHz:
1.6-2.1 (31% increase) in 25 months

Pentium-4 GHz:
3.1-3.8 (23% increase) in 29 months

Athlon XP GHz:
1.8-2.4 (33% increase) in 27 months

[MacNoobie]

No dual core? Damn, AMD and Intel have dual core processors now. Its time Apple faces the facts. They are a software company, not a hardware company. You can't claim to be a hardware company and continue to have inferior hardware. You make great software Apple. Its time to show the world. Switch to AMD please.

I must admit that it’s looking more and more like an IBM problem with respects to R&D that’s causing apple to look bad. As far as the whole speed issue people are having with the G5's, grow up finally and take a look at the AMD cpu's they work harder then the Intel cpu's and are clocked similarly to the G5 cpu. So what if Intel has dual core cpu's I heard they don’t perform that much better then the current crop of cpu's and due to the fact that they are dual core they're actually clocked slower then their single core counterparts.

I for one am not disappointed that Apple hasn’t hit 3Ghz with the G5 so far and I'll tell you why:

1. Its an IBM thing they're essentially holding the 3Ghz back due to heat and I assume production issues with getting to 3Ghz, I know Steve promised 3Ghz by the end of the year but seriously if IBM cant produce the chips and Apple cant sell the spiffy new 3Ghz power Mac then why be pissed at Apple... ohh because Steve made a promise that he couldn’t keep? Grow up you're parents have done that **** to you since you were all kids at one point or another.

2. Falls in line with AMD cpu's, AMD's are notorious for working harder (despite being clocked slower) then their Intel counterparts and if the G5 falls in line with how the AMD's are clocked then that STILL OK!!!!!

Anyways I thought I'd add that in.

[amac4me]

Guys, to put this into perspective, I did a bit of research. The following is the speed increase of various processors over about the past 2 years.

G5 GHz:
2.0-2.7 (35% increase) in 22 months

Pentium-M GHz:
1.6-2.1 (31% increase) in 25 months

Pentium-4 GHz:
3.1-3.8 (23% increase) in 29 months

Athlon XP GHz:
1.8-2.4 (33% increase) in 27 months

Thanks for these stats. I can't believe how people are complaining. I own a Dual 2.5 system and I don't think many of you realize how fast it is. A 200MHz increase is a bit disappointing but you have to look at the entire system instead of just the CPU speed.

Just my view.

[joeboy_45101]

The most insulting thing I've heard all day (to continue the style).

AMD currently DOESN'T make PPC processors (to my knowledge). Also, they'd be required to license PPC (would IBM/Motorola/FreeScale allow competition?) You're imagining possible cases here, not relying on actual facts!

Let's see, I can imagine things too: I could also argue with you that you're also ignorant because Apple COULD release OS X for x86, Microsoft COULD buy Apple and shut them down (monopoly-shielding issues aside), FreeScale COULD make x86 processors, Sony COULD dump Microsoft and make a partnership with Apple. And the human race COULD live in peace and harmony (not gonna happen any time soon).

However, I do agree on your "IBM should innovates and the others do the actual production" idea. But those "others" are currently Motorola/FreeScale.
Unless there's other PPC manufacturers I'm not aware of.

Sorry if it came off as insulting, but you're bit about how a switch to AMD designed/manufactured chips would be a switch to the x86 platform is absolutely nutty. Quoting you, "You're imagining possible cases here, not relying on actual facts!" Am I? All I suggested was that there are no known reasons why AMD is incapable of producing a PowerPC chip.

I think that IBM, and don't get me wrong IBM I like you and all, doesn't really have time to care about Apple. Apple's PowerMac's and iMac's don't really pose a huge marketshare for IBM, so keeping the chips in these machines on the cutting edge is not a big business priority for them.

Also, I think this is, in big part, Apple's fault. They have the most elegant and well designed machines on the planet, but when was the last time you saw a commercial for the PowerMac G5 or the iMac G5. The only one I can remember is the one where the guy gets blown out of his house. I'd even wager money to say that the United State's Congress was more productive last year than Apple's Marketing Department. It is a stone miracle that Apple can even sell these machines given the fact that they don't do any advertising whatsoever. It seems to me that not even Apple is very excited about their products anymore! Why aren't there commercials running day and night about the coming of Mac OS 10.4? Why weren't there any commercials proclaiming the amazing engineering feat that is the Mac Mini?

[840quadra]

Buss speed plays a BIG part in how fast a CPU can do it's work. The buss speed increase on the 2.7 will help the new Top G5 do more with what it has.

Someone has touched on this in this thread already, but the point needs to be brought up again.

[anastasis]

I still wish Apple would give me the option to buy a singe 2.7GHz Powermac.... pretty silly to only have dual configurations.

[topgunn]

Why weren't there any commercials proclaiming the amazing engineering feat that is the Mac Mini?
What amazing engineering feat is that?

[Mac-Xpert]

Yes I do realize that. However, 1) HE says Opteron. And 2) those Athlons can't work in dual configurations. So they're basically "finally" catching up with Apple's dual processors.Only if Apple/IBM would introduce the dual core G5 (970MP) around the same time, they would be equal. It's not just about the clock speed being *only* 2.7 Ghz but more the lack of dual cores. That's why they are behind.

The fact that the Athlons can't be used in dual CPU configurations doesn't matter much, since people that really need that power could buy the Opteron instead.

It's a matter of price and choice that Apple / IBM seem unable to match for now.

[amac4me]

Buss speed plays a BIG part in how fast a CPU can do it's work. The buss speed increase on the 2.7 will help the new Top G5 do more with what it has.

Someone has touched on this in this thread already, but the point needs to be brought up again.

This is SO true, I wish people would realize this!

[Jonx]

does it still has liquid cooling ?

[ZildjianKX]

I said it before but I think it needs repeating. While past performance is no indicator of future events, Apple has never released a product only to turn around TWO months later and release a better version of that product. The chances of a better, dual-core G5 being released in June is next to nothing (notice I didn't say completely nothing).
Use some logic.
From the 2.0s to the 2.5s, Apple waited a whole year. Do you not think people would wait the full year again if Apple could squeeze out the dual core in June? People sure would wait - as if they had any choice.
I see NO common sense in the arguement that Powermacs will be single core tomorrow and dual core in June. It's possible but not probable.

Apple killed off the Single Processor 1.8 GHz G5 about 2.5 months after it started shipping for the dual processor model... I'm still bitter.

[swissmann]

I wonder if Amazon gets in trouble for this. I expect that Apple shows the systems on their site by 9:00 Pacific Time. As I recall these match the rumors, which must be disappointing to so many people. IBM needs a breakthrough again like they did with the original G5. No way I'm buying one of these. I also doubt that Apple will update the PMs again until next January - September just seems too soon. Please Apple be ahead of the game. You need a blue laser something before the end of this year and a processor that can handle HD stuff well.

[deputy_doofy]

Buss speed plays a BIG part in how fast a CPU can do it's work. The buss speed increase on the 2.7 will help the new Top G5 do more with what it has.

Someone has touched on this in this thread already, but the point needs to be brought up again.

Yep.
200MHz per processor and 100MHz per bus.

Unlike the G4's that will probably still be 167MHz by the time they make it to 2GHz (in 2009), the G5s bus increases with each processor increase (so far). That's kind of nice.

[Mav451]

Guys, to put this into perspective, I did a bit of research. The following is the speed increase of various processors over about the past 2 years.

G5 GHz:
2.0-2.7 (35% increase) in 22 months

Pentium-M GHz:
1.6-2.1 (31% increase) in 25 months

Pentium-4 GHz:
3.1-3.8 (23% increase) in 29 months

Athlon XP GHz:
1.8-2.4 (33% increase) in 27 months

Great post. Think I'll repeat it by quoting it.

You cannot simply compare Ghz like that. Things like latencies, cache size, bus size, # of pipelines, etc. are different. P-M, for example, absolutely flies when you overclock the FSB b/c it is like an Athlon XP (in having a restrictively small bus). Also, you may claim that Athlon (XP or 64) haven't gone much above 2.4GHz, but compare a OCed CPU like mine to a stock 3800+ (2.4Ghz), and I know mine can't even come close to a A64-core.

[Frobozz]

It will happen. maybe not this time around, but it will. Remember the iMac G5? It was a HUGE step from the iMac G4. Same way with the PowerMac G5 from the G4.

Yeah I agree. I'm basically happy with the machine I bought because I feel I hit it in the sweet spot. Low price, high performance, high tech (at the time.) Here's to hoping the 2.7's are dual core!

[cubedco]

while i'm not much for devouring rumors, i've been anxiously awaiting the 'next' PowerMac.

the only 'marketing rumor' assumption i've contrived in relation to this update is as follows:

1) playing off Tiger success, they're releasing minor powermac updates to rid surplus chips before announcing a dual-core system (which would in theory, steal sales).

2) They won't release a single-core dual 3.0 gHz G5 b/c...

3) IF they decide to release dualcore dual G5 PowerMacs @ WDDC, (which i doubt it based on a previous page that sited programming issues w/ Power5 chip) it would probably be at the 3.0 range and would compete with their existing update to the naive consumer.

Remember, they did offer a sub-PowerMac system (single chip G5) VERY shortly after announcing the iMac that appeased everyone who wanted a slight step higher. Maybe they'll do it again for those wanting the next step in power-computing.

Who knows... i'm still flippin the coin whether or not i should order a new powermac or hold off a month and see what WDDC does.

:( im sad, it's a love/hate relationship.

[Skull Leader]

Then people will argue, "Why didn't they just use the liquid cooling and get it to run at 3 ghz?" :)
Maybe they realized just how difficult and expensive it was to produce the liquid cooled models (they never really could keep up with demand for them). We shall see if the new top end model has liquid cooling or not to test this theory. If the new 2.7GHz PowerMacs are air cooled I think that is real progress towards hitting 3.0GHz for the next major update....(although maybe they'll need an intercooled turbocharger for that too. :p )

Skull Leader
www.skullsquadron.com

[calyxman]

Yes I do realize that. However, 1) HE says Opteron. And 2) those Athlons can't work in dual configurations. So they're basically "finally" catching up with Apple's dual processors.

Uhh, no I think you have it backwards. If anyone has any catching up to do it's Apple. Dual processors have been existent on the x86 platform for a while too.

[Mac-Xpert]

Buss speed plays a BIG part in how fast a CPU can do it's work. The buss speed increase on the 2.7 will help the new Top G5 do more with what it has.

Someone has touched on this in this thread already, but the point needs to be brought up again.Not really. The ratio 1:2 with the CPU clock speed remains the same, so the difference in clock speed between the 2.5 Ghz and the 2.7 Ghz (8%) is the maximum achievable speed gain.

And that's not a lot...

[mandis]

See? That's just one small example of what I mean of fantasy world.

First, ONE of those Opteron dual-core processors cost $1,400 APIECE. Competitive? In it's market, yes, but against Apple?... Not really.

MATE DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW MUCH A DUAL-CORE OPTERON COSTS?? OR ARE YOU HAVING HALLUCINATIONS??

UNLESS THEY ARE RELEASED HOW CAN YOU EVEN PRETEND TO KNOW HOW MUCH THEY COST??????

AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION A TOP OF THE LINE Opteron 250 2.4GHz S940 1MB Box COSTS £477.63 in the UK!!!!

[Frobozz]

You cannot simply compare Ghz like that. Things like latencies, cache size, bus size, # of pipelines, etc. are different. P-M, for example, absolutely flies when you overclock the FSB b/c it is like an Athlon XP (in having a restrictively small bus). Also, you may claim that Athlon (XP or 64) haven't gone much above 2.4GHz, but compare a OCed CPU like mine to a stock 3800+ (2.4Ghz), and I know mine can't even come close to a A64-core.

You make an excellent point. The 2.0 to 2.5 had a half-yeild. There was a 25% GHz increase but, on average, only a 16% speed boost. So, we'd really need to see real world performance.

Dual core. That's what we need.

[SonComet]

Guys, to put this into perspective, I did a bit of research. The following is the speed increase of various processors over about the past 2 years.

G5 GHz:
2.0-2.7 (35% increase) in 22 months

Pentium-M GHz:
1.6-2.1 (31% increase) in 25 months

Pentium-4 GHz:
3.1-3.8 (23% increase) in 29 months

Athlon XP GHz:
1.8-2.4 (33% increase) in 27 months

Athlon 64s have gone from a launch at 2.0 to 2.6, the 1.8 was released after the 2.0. And you can't really compare the speed of a water cooled cpu to that of a cpu that has to rely on a relatively bad aur cooler to run. If an athlon 64 was watered cooled it could easily run faster than the G5 does (if that's still being watercooled, if not then I take that back). But just remember dual core 2.4ghz Athlon 64s are going to be out in the fall, and a 2.8ghz model that is air-cooled will be joining the line up pretty soon. Oh and the P4 C models started with a max of 3.0 not 3.1. 3.066 (I am assuming this is what you call the 3.1) was a B model and so it doesn't quite fit in your chart. The C then only scaled to 3.4, then the E went to 3.8, and now the pentium D is at 3.2. I wonder what the percentage is on the P4 line as a whole, I think it started at 1.4 or 1.6 and then finished at 3.8 (with a number of changes along the way).

[Mac-Xpert]

MATE DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW MUCH A DUAL-CORE OPTERON COSTS?? OR ARE YOU HAVING HALLUCINATIONS??

UNLESS THEY ARE RELEASED HOW CAN YOU EVEN PRETEND TO KNOW HOW MUCH THEY COST??????

AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION A TOP OF THE LINE Opteron 250 2.4GHz S940 1MB Box COSTS £477.63 in the UK!!!!Is there something wrong with your CAPS :D ;)

[AidenShaw]

Buss speed plays a BIG part in how fast a CPU can do it's work. The buss speed increase on the 2.7 will help the new Top G5 do more with what it has.

Actually, the faster bus won't help much at all - unless the RAM speeds up.

When your memory DIMMs are still clocking at 400 MHz, adding 100 MHz to the FSB isn't going to speed up your memory accesses.

Since the specs aren't saying "DDR2 667MHz", it's probably a safe bet that the memory system hasn't been upgraded.

[deputy_doofy]

Well, despite all this arguing, I wish they would just release the crappy 2.7 machine so I can buy it already. WTF? Why must I wait another day (if the rumor sites are correct)?

[Mav451]

You make an excellent point. The 2.0 to 2.5 had a half-yeild. There was a 25% GHz increase but, on average, only a 16% speed boost. So, we'd really need to see real world performance.

Dual core. That's what we need.

Yup. If there is one thing to look at, take a benchmark and put the 2.0, 2.5 and now the new 2.7 in there. I seriously doubt the FSB increase is going to help much, when the corresponding overall clock frequency increase just ISN'T there. I believe we call this diminishing returns...you guys need a new core :(

(and by diminishing, for every new CPU release, you have to have a MUCH bigger %-wise, increase in clock speed to see a proportionally large increase in performance.)

[tromboneaholic]

Guys, to put this into perspective, I did a bit of research. The following is the speed increase of various processors over about the past 2 years.

G5 GHz:
2.0-2.7 (35% increase) in 22 months

Pentium-M GHz:
1.6-2.1 (31% increase) in 25 months

Pentium-4 GHz:
3.1-3.8 (23% increase) in 29 months

Athlon XP GHz:
1.8-2.4 (33% increase) in 27 months


You really need to factor in the price point over the same time period to make a real comparison.

Which is the point that is ignored by people who say don't complain.

The problem is after 1 year, the cost to apple is much less to build these machines. They should be priced:

2.0 = $1500
2.3 = $2000
2.7 = $2500

[Freg3000]

The problem isn't the clock speed (well, the meager speedbump is a problem, but not the one I am angry about). Fine we don't have 3GHz, I couldn't care less, it's only an irrelevant numbers game.

What I am very angry about is that Apple doesn't do anything else to pad the lackluster upgrade in CPU speed. The last PowerBook G4 revision saw a patry speedbump too, but Apple decided to add an assortment of other features to them, including the scroll trackpad, Sudden Motion Sensor, Bluetooth 2.0, default 512 MB of RAM, support for the 30" monitor, etc. All of these things are not tied to the CPU speed, so Apple was able to soften the dissapointing blow with some extra goodies.

They could be doing the same thing here, but it doesn't look like it. PCI-E? Nope. High end graphics cards as standard? Highly doubtful. A "Pro" level of memory, say 1GB? Nope.

All they seem prepared to do is uncripple their already shipping DVD burner and make it into a DL burner, go from the utter ridiculous 256 MB of RAM to 512 MB, and eek out a digustingly small boost in CPU speed, all while maintaining the same prices? :mad:

Shame on you Apple for not even trying.

[Hiroshige]

From www.theinquirer.net: (posted today)

"Wait two months for IBM dual core Opteron workstation

High spec machine starts at $5,000+"

"But IBM said the planned availability date for these machines is June 27th, 2005.

Prices start at $5,649 for a 2.2GHz dual core system equipped with an 80GB Serial ATA drive, an Nvidia Quadro FX14000, and a DVD/CD-RW. A 275 Opteron has a list price of $2,699."

Opteron 275 is 2.2 Ghz, 2 MB L2 cache. I configured one and got a price of $2472, here:
http://www.aslab.com/products/workstations/customize/marquisk825.cgi
But it has a Radeon 700 graphics card. I threw in a software package at the bottom to match the free software you get from Apple. Also it comes with Linux, which I assume is inferior to Tiger.

[ZildjianKX]

From www.theinquirer.net: (posted today)

"Wait two months for IBM dual core Opteron workstation

High spec machine starts at $5,000+"

"But IBM said the planned availability date for these machines is June 27th, 2005.

Prices start at $5,649 for a 2.2GHz dual core system equipped with an 80GB Serial ATA drive, an Nvidia Quadro FX14000, and a DVD/CD-RW. A 275 Opteron has a list price of $2,699."

Opteron 275 is 2.2 Ghz, 2 MB L2 cache. I configured one and got a price of $2472, here:
http://www.aslab.com/products/workstations/customize/marquisk825.cgi
But it has a Radeon 700 graphics card. I threw in a software package at the bottom to match the free software you get from Apple. Also it comes with Linux, which I assume is inferior to Tiger.

I wouldn't say Linux is inferior to Tiger... it's cheaper though.

[zakatov]

So it's almost 9AM over at Cali, when can we expect an annoucement?

[jocknerd]

Funniest post so far.

(in case you weren't joking, Apple doesn't make CPUs, and switching to AMD would require switching to x86, which would be a huge mistake).

I wasn't joking. I know Apple doesn't make CPU's. But if IBM can't provide them with decent upgrades and a good supply, its time to move on. I think they should look at AMD. I'm not saying make OS X run on the generic intel/amd platform. Apple could use the Opteron x86-64 processors and still keep control over the hardware just like they do now. AMD is much better at producing the CPU's than IBM is apparently.

And the Opterons absolutely rock. They smoke the G5's. By the way, I own a dual 2.0ghz G5.

[SweetFeet]

So it's almost 9AM over at Cali, when can we expect an annoucement?

Tomorrow

[zakatov]

Tomorrow
that your guess or did i miss something?

[Hiroshige]

I wouldn't say Linux is inferior to Tiger... it's cheaper though.
O.K. how's "lacks certain advantages compared to Tiger"?

[calyxman]

Has anybody caught the rebates Amazon is providing on the iBooks?

I noticed this at notebookreview.com: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2325

[BRLawyer]

Yep, I'll make it simple...notwithstanding the fact that we don't have PCIe yet (even though we haven't reached the limits of AGP) or the best GFX cards in the market, I would like to know WHICH PC system is FASTER and MORE powerful than a Dual G5 2.7...no o'clocked crap, please...just mass-produced products...

Could you show me that? Thanks.

[SweetFeet]

Tomorrow - that your guess or did i miss something?

That's Appleinsider's guess, and my inference.

[jauh]

I have a REV B, and I couldn't be happier.

Rumor has it the new 2.0's are limited to 4gb of memory. From what it sounds like, it is an overclocked 1.8 GHZ.


If it is the case then it's more likely to be 2GHz chip in place of 1.8GHz, doubt Apple would risk overclocking...

[ZildjianKX]

O.K. how's "lacks certain advantages compared to Tiger"?

Or ease of use for the average user.

[lem0nayde]

It's all about the iPod, kids.

Apple doesn't really give a crap about their Macs right now. Not when they can be making bubble-gum sized music players and ugly-colored iPod minis! It's the MUSIC REVOLUTION people!!!!

Who cares about their loyal core customer base! I'm sure the popularity of the iPod will last forever and ever....right? It will won't it? Because....if it didn't...well we'd be left with...nah - that'll never happen.

If there is one thing we know about Steve Jobs - it's that he NEVER EVER EVER has made a bad decision when working for Apple.

[AidenShaw]

I would like to know WHICH PC system is FASTER and MORE powerful than a Dual G5 2.7...no o'clocked crap.

http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html

For example:

http://www.barefeats.com/image06/mvp-mp.gif

[HelloKitty]

It's past 9:00 PST now..guess will have to wait for another day..

[PCM]

quick question, if I buy last models dual 2.5 brand new, am I entitled to some sort of tiger upgrade at reduced price???


Sorry if this has been asked before.

[Yvan256]

I wasn't joking. I know Apple doesn't make CPU's. But if IBM can't provide them with decent upgrades and a good supply, its time to move on. I think they should look at AMD. I'm not saying make OS X run on the generic intel/amd platform. Apple could use the Opteron x86-64 processors and still keep control over the hardware just like they do now. AMD is much better at producing the CPU's than IBM is apparently.

And the Opterons absolutely rock. They smoke the G5's. By the way, I own a dual 2.0ghz G5.

Okay, but x86 stills sucks compared to RISC/PPC (too much legacy crap). I'm all for AMD making CPUs for Apple as long as they're PPCs.

[plinden]

You cannot simply compare Ghz like that. Things like latencies, cache size, bus size, # of pipelines, etc. are different. P-M, for example, absolutely flies when you overclock the FSB b/c it is like an Athlon XP (in having a restrictively small bus). Also, you may claim that Athlon (XP or 64) haven't gone much above 2.4GHz, but compare a OCed CPU like mine to a stock 3800+ (2.4Ghz), and I know mine can't even come close to a A64-core.

You have a real problem with that hair trigger response, don't you?

Believe it or not, I wasn't criticizing the AMD or Intel CPUs or trying to make them look bad in comparison with the G5. Take another look and you'll see I was comparing clockspeed increases since that's what's causing all the disappointment. The G5 is pretty much in line with the other widely used CPUs. I could have researched the Athlon 64 but got tired of it.

[goof_ball]

But what if they release something like a PRO line under a different name?

They already have that. It's called Xserve.

[alset]

I knew this was coming, couldn't say anything due to NDA

And we're all impressed. You're special. Glad you felt compelled to tell us.
Stop pining for attention. Go home.

[crpchristian]

From www.theinquirer.net: (posted today)

"Wait two months for IBM dual core Opteron workstation

High spec machine starts at $5,000+"

"But IBM said the planned availability date for these machines is June 27th, 2005.

Prices start at $5,649 for a 2.2GHz dual core system equipped with an 80GB Serial ATA drive, an Nvidia Quadro FX14000, and a DVD/CD-RW. A 275 Opteron has a list price of $2,699."

Opteron 275 is 2.2 Ghz, 2 MB L2 cache. I configured one and got a price of $2472, here:
http://www.aslab.com/products/workstations/customize/marquisk825.cgi
But it has a Radeon 700 graphics card. I threw in a software package at the bottom to match the free software you get from Apple. Also it comes with Linux, which I assume is inferior to Tiger.


So how many people here are actually going to pony up $5000 for a machine?

The ONLY 'update' i see happening at WWDC (PM wise) is a 'new PM' that doesn't replace anything but is some kind of bloated supermachine that will undoubdetly be mucho $$$

[daveL]

That clears up a question I had about pricing. So no dual PM for $1,499. I wonder if the 2.7GHz is air-cooled.
If the 2.5 GHz are water cooled, how would it be possible for the 2.7GHz to be air cooled? Did the laws of physics change? Did Apple decide to run the fans at max all the time, rendering phone conversations in the same room impossible? I think not. I would take a guess that the 2.3 GHz are also water cooled, but maybe not.

[BOOMBA]

normailly when lame updates like this happen ( and they seem to happen quite frequently with Apple) I like to come in here and tell everyone to quit their belly-aching.

HOWEVER, this IS really lame.

If Jobs hadn't said a 3GHz over a year ago, then MAYBE I would cut them a LITTLE slack, but honestly, HOW COULD HE BE THAT FAR OFF?

What did IBM tell him?

Maybe his RDF has finally affected HIM.

[shawnce]

quick question, if I buy last models dual 2.5 brand new, am I entitled to some sort of tiger upgrade at reduced price???
Sorry if this has been asked before.
Look at Apple's site...

Mac OS X Up-To-Date (http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/)

[iMetalG5]

My friend who has been waiting for about a month for a new PM is dissapointed at these updates. oh well, i'm curious to see what the iMac updates bring. Even though I just got one two months ago :(