HTC Cites Patents Obtained From Google in New Lawsuit Against Apple

[MacRumors]

http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/07/htc-cites-patents-obtained-from-google-in-new-lawsuit-against-apple/)


Bloomberg reports (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-07/htc-sues-apple-alleging-infringement-of-four-u-s-patents.html) on an interesting twist in the ever-growing patent dispute between Apple and handset manufacturers supporting Google's Android operating system. According to the report, HTC today filed a new patent lawsuit against Apple and amended an earlier complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC), citing nine patents that had previously been held by Google and assigned to HTC just last week.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/07/htc_apple_google_logos.jpg


The four patents cited in the new lawsuit were initially held by Motorola, but apparently passed to Google sometime over the past year before being transferred to HTC. Google is of course currently attempting to acquire (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/15/google-supercharging-android-with-acquisition-of-motorola-mobility/) Motorola Mobility in a bid to add a hardware component to its existing software program in the competitive smartphone market.

The other five patents added to the earlier ITC complaint originated at Palm and Openwave Systems before being obtained by Google. Google then transferred those patents to HTC last week.The nine patents originated with Palm Inc., Motorola Inc. and Openwave Systems Inc., with Google taking ownership within the past year, according to U.S. Patent and Trademark Office records. Mountain View, California-based Google recorded transfer of the patents to HTC on Sept. 1, according to the agency's website.

HTC sued Apple today in federal court in Delaware, claiming infringement of four of those patents that originally were issued to Motorola. Taoyuan, Taiwan-based HTC also amended a complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission in Washington, alleging infringement of three patents first issued to Openwave and two others originally owned by Palm.Apple has of course filed lawsuits and ITC complaints against a number of Android handset manufacturers, many of which have retaliated with their own lawsuits. But Google has stayed out of the immediate fray, although it has noted that it will support its hardware partners in their disputes. This direct transfer of patents from Google to HTC in order to provide HTC with additional ammunition in its fight against Apple seems to be the clearest evidence yet of that effort.

Article Link: HTC Cites Patents Obtained From Google in New Lawsuit Against Apple (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/07/htc-cites-patents-obtained-from-google-in-new-lawsuit-against-apple/)

[blacktape242]

this suing thing is getting old.......lets put all of them in a pit and have them fight to the death. Ill put my money on Apple......

[TheClarkster]

I wonder if Apple is the type of bully to run when the kids start fighting back or if they'll just try and bully harder.

I love Apple products and everything they do, but I hate what they are doing with these patent lawsuits. Go HTC!

[the8thark]

Go HTC!
You want the patent troll to win?

[Keebler]

I wonder if Apple is the type of bully to run when the kids start fighting back or if they'll just try and bully harder.

I love Apple products and everything they do, but I hate what they are doing with these patent lawsuits. Go HTC!

by hating that they are doing do you mean protecting their intellectual properties? do you mean protecting their business and protecting the interests of their investors?

I support ANY company going after x company for patent infringement. If HTC or Google is right, then so be it. If it's Apple, so be it.

I'm just jealous I'm not a patent lawyer for any of these companies b/c they must be making a boatload of OT billable hours :)

[Number 41]

I wonder if Apple is the type of bully to run when the kids start fighting back or if they'll just try and bully harder.

I love Apple products and everything they do, but I hate what they are doing with these patent lawsuits. Go HTC!

Compare what HTC phones looked like before the iPhone to what HTC phones look like now and tell me if they're worth cheering for.

[kenypowa]

You want the patent troll to win?

Apple is the patent troll here. They filed 2 law suits against HTC first.

Go HTC, hit Apple where it hurts.

[ipoppy]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

If Apple wouldn't sue anyone over iPhone then for sure other competitors would certainly do. Actually they would do everything to wipe iPhone from the face of the earth.

[Rodimus Prime]

You want the patent troll to win?

You have to explain how HTC is the patent Troll. Apple has been the sue happy troll here. Not the other way around.

[840quadra]

I personally have an issue with any company that purchases an other simply to protect patents they didn't create. Or a company that simply buys a patent in order to protect it, or make money from lawsuits.

If the company in question is actually using the technology, it is a little better, however, I still feel it goes against the entire purpose of the Patent system. I don't care if it is Apple, Google, HTC or otherwise, the behavior just seems petty.

Less litigation, more innovation please.

[bushido]

Compare what HTC phones looked like before the iPhone to what HTC phones look like now and tell me if they're worth cheering for.

Yes bc having a choice is good. Just bc the iphone influenced the market doesnt mean other manufacturers should be stuck in the past with devices that look like my first nokia.

[jrtc27]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/7E18 Twitter for iPhone)

I personally have an issue with any company that purchases an other simply to protect patents they didn't create. Or a company that simply buys a patent in order to protect it, or make money from lawsuits.

If the company in question is actually using the technology, it is a little better, however, I still feel it goes against the entire purpose of the Patent system. I don't care if it is Apple, Google, HTC or otherwise, the behavior just seems petty.

Less litigation, more innovation please.

If only...

[Mad-B-One]

If I remember correctly, Apple might have enough pocket money to take over someone like RIM. I mean, they only have to take 25% + 1 share and can block every major decision - e.g. attacking :apple: Inc. The other thing I don't understand is how Apple can be one of the major consumes of Samsung products for their line and be in bitter dispute about the Galaxy tab etc. Same thing with Google Maps.

BTW: That is not far-fetched: Microsoft owns a big chunk of Apple (that is why :apple: didn't go bankrupt) and Apple and MS could fight about who stole ideas for windows from whom. But they don't. Even though they seem to be bitter contestants, they are not really. Office is available for Macs, even Windows is installable on Apple hardware. Also the patent law suits seem to be geared towards Google's Android and not Windows phones. I think that MS might even just support Apple in that whole deal because they still have a crutch against Google for not being competitive with the MSN search engine. :D

[rom3oOSX]

I wonder if Apple is the type of bully to run when the kids start fighting back or if they'll just try and bully harder.

I love Apple products and everything they do, but I hate what they are doing with these patent lawsuits. Go HTC!

i agree with u. I'm an apple fan but i hope HTC wins this to shut apple's mouth down. I like apple products but I'm not blind what apple is doing its just what a coward would do. Apple should work more on improving their devices than doing this dirty war. GO HTC!!!!

[ChazUK]

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Apple should take this direct to Google and be done with it. Nip it in the bud so to speak.

Will either Apple or Google have the balls to do so?

[robT9]

If I'm not mistaken, a patent troll is just looking for lawsuits to file and really not defending any legitimate products. They are just using the patents they hold to hopefully make some money.

I think anyone wishing HTC or any other Android smartphone maker well in their suits against Apple is delusional.

Does anyone remember what smartphones looked like and how they worked prior to 2007?

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

And for that matter, Android would never have had any support if ATT didn't have the exclusive with the Iphone.

People purchased Android phones because they were "like" the Iphone, but were on better networks (Verizon et al).

[rdowns]

You can never have enough patent threads for all the patent experts on MR.

[Mattie Num Nums]

If I'm not mistaken, a patent troll is just looking for lawsuits to file and really not defending any legitimate products. They are just using the patents they hold to hopefully make some money.

I think anyone wishing HTC or any other Android smartphone maker well in their suits against Apple is delusional.

Does anyone remember what smartphones looked like and how they worked prior to 2007?

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

And for that matter, Android would never have had any support if ATT didn't have the exclusive with the Iphone.

People purchased Android phones because they were "like" the Iphone, but were on better networks (Verizon et al).

So what! Does anyone here remember that all the technology stuffed into the iPhone was created by the people Apple is suing decades ago (Nokia, Motorola, et al.) All Apple did was dressed up the ugly Prom Queen. Now everyone wants to go out with her.

[rman726]

Isn't this collusion? An agreement made between two companies to limit open competition? Suing someone over a patent that you didn't even create and don't use sure seems like "limiting open competition".

[Trudy]

Compare what HTC phones looked like before the iPhone to what HTC phones look like now and tell me if they're worth cheering for.

HTC touch-based phones were still looking like this a year after the iPhone. They're slow copiers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/93/HTC_Touch_Pro_front%2C_side_and_rear_views.jpg/250px-HTC_Touch_Pro_front%2C_side_and_rear_views.jpg

[Shrink]

You can never have enough patent threads for all the patent experts on MR.

Ah, the voice of reason - finally! :)

[robT9]

So what! Does anyone here remember that all the technology stuffed into the iPhone was created by the people Apple is suing decades ago (Nokia, Motorola, et al.) All Apple did was dressed up the ugly Prom Queen. Now everyone wants to go out with her.

Wow...that was funny!

You clearly have no concept regarding software and hardware integration and execution, and how that makes for a better product.

[kenypowa]

Isn't this collusion? An agreement made between two companies to limit open competition? Suing someone over a patent that you didn't even create and don't use sure seems like "limiting open competition".

Sounds like the alliance between Apple, Microsoft, RIM when they acquired Nortel patents.

[BaldiMac]

Microsoft owns a big chunk of Apple (that is why :apple: didn't go bankrupt)

No, they don't.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/05/apples-stock-rise-could-have-meant-5-billion-for-microsoft.ars

And the $150 million was just a symbol. Apple had around $4 billion at the time if I remember correctly.

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Nexus S Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

You can never have enough patent threads for all the patent experts on MR.

Why does someone have to be an expert on something to discuss a subject? I could chat all day about the Saturn V rocket but I ain't a NASA engineer.

Like I've said before, everyone I work with has an opinion on the professional footballers and managers who play/manage the teams they support yet none of them are premier league footballers/managers. It's good to talk about interesting subjects, expert or not.

[Mad-B-One]

Isn't this collusion? An agreement made between two companies to limit open competition? Suing someone over a patent that you didn't even create and don't use sure seems like "limiting open competition".

Yea, but we are not on a free market. Politics are steered by lobbyists and appoint judges that cause no harm to the politicians (or their supporting lobby) and therefore, we are all screwed. The market is limited. Bigger companies are told how they aught to compete so there is competition. Sometimes, that means you don't get any service like AT&T DSL because they are forbidden to use technology they invented with others. Therefore, the distance from a hub is only half the distance of what it could be (between house and station). Yes, they would have a "Monopoly" in some areas but I rather would pay $25 to a monopolist than having a limited volume with a cable provider or paying $50 or to a satellite service which is out as soon as clouds come by. You might not like AT&T for a lot of reasons but sometimes it's not even their fault. Ask one of their technicians and they will roll their eyes. :o

[rom3oOSX]

If I'm not mistaken, a patent troll is just looking for lawsuits to file and really not defending any legitimate products. They are just using the patents they hold to hopefully make some money.

I think anyone wishing HTC or any other Android smartphone maker well in their suits against Apple is delusional.

Does anyone remember what smartphones looked like and how they worked prior to 2007?

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

And for that matter, Android would never have had any support if ATT didn't have the exclusive with the Iphone.

People purchased Android phones because they were "like" the Iphone, but were on better networks (Verizon et al).

So android is a copy of iPhone? what about blackberry and windows mobile? are a copy too?? all smartphones are copy from iPhone?? then i can say that mac os is a copy of windows just because windows came first? competence is not copy

[napabar]

What's all this "Go HTC" crap? Seriously, some of you need a thrashing....

Apple a patent troll? You're a forum troll!

Apple needs to bring the full brunt of it's IP and patent resources against Google in a massive lawsuit. Enough of this proxy fighting through the handset makers. Time to go for the kill.

Apple has slowly been awarded many patents related to multi-touch over the past couple of years. One alone may not have been a silver bullet, but they have been bying their time. Google clearly has crossed the line by awarding HTC some of it's patents (TROLL). It's on like Donkey Kong!

[Rodimus Prime]

If I'm not mistaken, a patent troll is just looking for lawsuits to file and really not defending any legitimate products. They are just using the patents they hold to hopefully make some money.

I think anyone wishing HTC or any other Android smartphone maker well in their suits against Apple is delusional.

Does anyone remember what smartphones looked like and how they worked prior to 2007?

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

And for that matter, Android would never have had any support if ATT didn't have the exclusive with the Iphone.

People purchased Android phones because they were "like" the Iphone, but were on better networks (Verizon et al).


Apple built the iPhone on the shoulder of giants in the mobile phone industry.

The biggest game changer was not Apple iOS but the fact that multi touch capacities touch screens had become cheap, reliable and good enough to put into phones.

Apple help show how to make a touch screen OS but they already had several idea that worked. Hell look at it and you will noticed the basic interface of the phone is a lot like dumb phones at the time that were touch screen only. Grid of icon.
Apple and Android biggest advantage was not having to deal with legacy support like everyone else.

[Oletros]

Does anyone remember what smartphones looked like and how they worked prior to 2007?

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

And for that matter, Android would never have had any support if ATT didn't have the exclusive with the Iphone.

People purchased Android phones because they were "like" the Iphone, but were on better networks (Verizon et al).

Why people repeat the same BS all over again.

Ps. People purchased Android phones in UK, Spain, etc because they were in better networks?

[Glideslope]

I wonder if Apple is the type of bully to run when the kids start fighting back or if they'll just try and bully harder.

I love Apple products and everything they do, but I hate what they are doing with these patent lawsuits. Go HTC!

Let's just say Tim dislikes Samsung, Google, HTC, and Motorola more than Steve. :apple:

[FaustsHausUK]

If you disagree with frivolous patent litigation, you disagree with it regardless who is on the receiving end.

Apple are suing based on their own design and technology innovations, not patents they were given last week to use purely against others. HTC are acting far more troll like than Apple in this instance.

[Glideslope]

Apple is the patent troll here. They filed 2 law suits against HTC first.

Go HTC, hit Apple where it hurts.

Where are you? :apple:

[robjulo]

You want the patent troll to win?

The patent troll is apple.

[kyeblue]

If I remember correctly, Apple might have enough pocket money to take over someone like RIM. I mean, they only have to take 25% + 1 share and can block every major decision - e.g. attacking :apple: Inc. The other thing I don't understand is how Apple can be one of the major consumes of Samsung products for their line and be in bitter dispute about the Galaxy tab etc. Same thing with Google Maps.

BTW: That is not far-fetched: Microsoft owns a big chunk of Apple (that is why :apple: didn't go bankrupt) and Apple and MS could fight about who stole ideas for windows from whom. But they don't. Even though they seem to be bitter contestants, they are not really. Office is available for Macs, even Windows is installable on Apple hardware. Also the patent law suits seem to be geared towards Google's Android and not Windows phones. I think that MS might even just support Apple in that whole deal because they still have a crutch against Google for not being competitive with the MSN search engine. :D

This will not happen, even apple has all the cash to buy every single phone manufacturers on earth. US justice department will stop it.

[jacollins]

Does it work that way? Transfer patents to an ongoing lawsuit and say "oh by the way, these things we just got? Yeah, we're suing you for them too". Where does it end?

[Rodimus Prime]

No, they don't.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/05/apples-stock-rise-could-have-meant-5-billion-for-microsoft.ars

And the $150 million was just a symbol. Apple had around $4 billion at the time if I remember correctly.

The biggest thing that investment gave was an image and in many ways might of been a huge boost to maybe even a life saver at the time. Not because of MS money but the image MS provided.

[*LTD*]

Apple built the iPhone on the shoulder of giants in the mobile phone industry.

And proceeded to make them look like gnomes.

[rman726]

So android is a copy of iPhone? what about blackberry and windows mobile? are a copy too?? all smartphones are copy from iPhone?? then i can say that mac os is a copy of windows just because windows came first? competence is not copy

Have you used a Blackberry Phone or Windows Phone? They aren't anything like the iPhone. Many of the Android phones look identical, most notably Samsung's line. That's why Android is getting blasted. They are a ridiculously easy target.

Despite the constant bickering from Android fans about how Apple patented a rectangle screen, and that there are are only many ways to make a smartphone, Windows and Blackberry are perfect examples of how you can make a smartphone that isn't a replica.

[St. Germain]

Compare what HTC phones looked like before the iPhone to what HTC phones look like now and tell me if they're worth cheering for.

Amen.

[*LTD*]

The patent troll is apple.

Except Apple doesn't actually fit the definition of one.

Do you know what "patent troll" means?

[robT9]

So android is a copy of iPhone? what about blackberry and windows mobile? are a copy too?? all smartphones are copy from iPhone?? then i can say that mac os is a copy of windows just because windows came first? competence is not copy

Tell me you that you think that the first iPhone worked anything like blackberry and/or windows mobile OF THAT ERA...please!

Heck, Ballmer laughed at it when it came out. We all know he is a genius.

The iPhone was a game changer, pure and simple. Android is a copy. No other way to look at it.

[Oletros]

Many of the Android phones look identical, most notably Samsung's line. That's why Android is getting blasted. They are a ridiculously easy target.

You have to inform in sites other than Apple friendly sites.

HTC phones or HTC Senese doesn't resemble nothing to iOS or iPhone

And how is Android getting blasted?

[kyeblue]

All these patents, saving one or two, has no significant technology advances. Maybe a new product should be given a short window, say two years, protection against any copy-cat, defined by high similarity, and all the complains will go through a very speedy process.

[*LTD*]

Apple built the iPhone on the shoulder of giants in the mobile phone industry.

Actually, it would appear that HTC, Samsung, Motorola et al built their smartphones on the shoulder of the iPhone.

[Rodimus Prime]

Have you used a Blackberry Phone or Windows Phone? They aren't anything like the iPhone. Many of the Android phones look identical, most notably Samsung's line. That's why Android is getting blasted. They are a ridiculously easy target.

Despite the constant bickering from Android fans about how Apple patented a rectangle screen, and that there are are only many ways to make a smartphone, Windows and Blackberry are perfect examples of how you can make a smartphone that isn't a replica.

you never have used an Android phone have you?

I have used both iOS and the Android OS. They are very different. The pictures you have seen of Touch Wiz is with the App draw open and lets face it how many different ways can you do a icon lay out in a grid.

The OS are very different in how they run.

Post like your come from people who never have used the Android OS and just reading the crap from Apple. I have used blackberry, iOS and Android. They are all very different.

Big time when you put in the widgets on the home screens that greatly change how the phone works.

[*LTD*]

All these patents, saving one or two, has no significant technology advances. Maybe a new product should be given a short window, say two years, protection against any copy-cat, defined by high similarity, and all the complains will go through a very speedy process.

There's no problem. Let the legal machinery do its work, and we'll find out in due course who owns what and who needs to change up their game.

This is all a matter of separating the wheat from the chaff. Let it happen. It will clarify everyone's position when the dust settles.

[blunti]

You want the patent troll to win?

Care to explain how HTC is the patent troll here?

[Consultant]

Foss Patents:

Google knows that HTC is under tremendous legal pressure from Apple and clearly on the losing track. HTC is the first Android device maker sued by Apple, so that dispute is at the most advanced stage, and since HTC's own patent portfolio is weak, it has so far lacked the leverage to force Apple into a cross-license agreement. The possibility of HTC being defeated must have scared Google.

https://plus.google.com/102642221637909015292/posts/BsMtd2r7W4V

[rom3oOSX]

Have you used a Blackberry Phone or Windows Phone? They aren't anything like the iPhone. Many of the Android phones look identical, most notably Samsung's line. That's why Android is getting blasted. They are a ridiculously easy target.

Despite the constant bickering from Android fans about how Apple patented a rectangle screen, and that there are are only many ways to make a smartphone, Windows and Blackberry are perfect examples of how you can make a smartphone that isn't a replica.

Of coarse i had used them thats why i talk of them, i don't talk of things i don't know. and in my case i have an android and if a i like it much its cuz its different from the iPhone, because i can change any single thing on my phone and not only what apple allows, i choose android cuz of the freedom i have with it. it may look like nothing but if i wanna leave a space between to icons i can, thats my desire and i pay for my phone zoo my phone has to do what i want, if people don't like android its fine its a choise, but don't say that people choose android cuz it were like the iPhone. don't put words into android's user mouths.

Plus if ur heart is broken cuz u realized that android is by far better OS than IOS go to the doctor. I'm an apple fan, i have apple computer and i like the iPhone but this conversations are going to far and if android is a copy of IOS (i don't agree with that)well done to google cuz is a better one!

[apolloa]

Oh good I am glad. This is exactly what Apple deserves. If Apple is going to play the 'lets block it's sales' tactics then I'm very glad Google will play the patent game but quietly.

[LeiQQ]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

If I'm not mistaken, a patent troll is just looking for lawsuits to file and really not defending any legitimate products. They are just using the patents they hold to hopefully make some money.

I think anyone wishing HTC or any other Android smartphone maker well in their suits against Apple is delusional.

Does anyone remember what smartphones looked like and how they worked prior to 2007?

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

And for that matter, Android would never have had any support if ATT didn't have the exclusive with the Iphone.

People purchased Android phones because they were "like" the Iphone, but were on better networks (Verizon et al).

Who are 'people'? People from the US? I live in Taoyuan Taiwan and people love Apple products here but they also hate paying an arm and a leg for an unlocked phone (all phones are sold unlocked here). Some just want a cheaper phone with less features and go for android. Anyway we need some competition in order to have innovation. If not iPhone 4 4ever.

[samcraig]

1. Daily Patent Lawsuit News Item
2. Competition is called a patent troll
3. Post is down voted
4. Apple should just buy ___ out and settle this
5. Post is up voted
6. back and forth repetition of every other patent thread
7. Rinse/Repeat

[Mars478]

Is this legal? I feel like this is a bit sneaky of Google.

[Oletros]

Foss Patents:



https://plus.google.com/102642221637909015292/posts/BsMtd2r7W4V

More FUD from Mueller?

Call me when he has anything right about his predictions.

[*LTD*]

Oh good I am glad. This is exactly what Apple deserves.

Nothing's happened yet. :confused:

[Laglorden]

I won't say who I think is wrong or right in this specific instance, but I do think the patent (and copyright etc) system in fundamentally broken.

It is supposed to encourage development, healthy competition and giving an incentive to people/companies to make the world better for all of us.

Does it work that way? Nope.

Instead it hinders competition, hurts the real inventors, creates these kind of crappy "patent wars" and in the end stifles development and makes the world a worse place. I think it's time to reform the patent (and also copyright) laws so they work like they're supposed to.

Unfortunately I thinks it's going to be much worse before it gets better.

:mad:

[Rodimus Prime]

Why people repeat the same BS all over again.

Ps. People purchased Android phones in UK, Spain, etc because they were in better networks?

oh those pesky facts get in the way. Android was liked over seas.

I was glad when AT&T lost its iPhone exclusive. Right after the threat became real AT&T started selling some real Android phones. The first good Android phone AT&T got was the Samsung Capitivated and this year they started selling quite a few and added a lot to the list.

Simple fact is Android is popular and people like it.
My brother who has a 3GS has been talking with me and has pretty much desided to say screw the iPhone 5 because all signs point to it being a minor update and he is thinking of Galaxy S 2 when it gets on AT&T

[inkswamp]

BTW: That is not far-fetched: Microsoft owns a big chunk of Apple

LOL! Nice try. :rolleyes:

----------

Care to explain how HTC is the patent troll here?

HTC is clearly not a patent troll. I'd say they're more of a Google sock puppet.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K06KkkaFxOw/TfHLgkUThsI/AAAAAAAAD9E/5ceNWin1LKE/s1600/sock-puppet_medium.jpg

"Hi, we're HTC--quietly brilliant... and also doing whatever Google tells us to do."

[*LTD*]

BTW: That is not far-fetched: Microsoft owns a big chunk of Apple

If only!

[blacktape242]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Nexus S Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

Like I've said before, everyone I work with has an opinion on the professional footballers and managers who play/manage the teams they support yet none of them are premier league footballers/managers. It's good to talk about interesting subjects, expert or not.



I would LOVE to talk about the EPL all day! GGMU!!!! :D:D:D

[dangcookie]

What is it with people thinking software, files and ideas-put-into-practice should be free? Apple is in the business of invention, and they deserve what they earn. Someone actually wrote on this thread that what HTC has done by copying just about everything that Apple has created as being "good for competition". Geezus, man, go criminals, go.

[Mad-B-One]

So android is a copy of iPhone? what about blackberry and windows mobile? are a copy too?? all smartphones are copy from iPhone?? then i can say that mac os is a copy of windows just because windows came first? competence is not copy

I believe Apple OS with graphic interface came first but others like Commodore or Atari (not the current one, Inforgames bought the name Atari and renamed itself) might have been before Apple.

Don't believe me? Klick here! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system)

[mdriftmeyer]

Microsoft owns zero of Apple. They had a one time $150 million infusion of non-voting share investment, back in 1997 that Bill and Steve announced in Boston.

They sold it the next year.

[apolloa]

Nothing's happened yet. :confused:

Not yet............

Apple will loose, they are going to loose market share to Android sooner or later too, and when Samsung have it's day in court and beat Apple........

I would imagine Google is beginning to get annoyed with Apple, it's gonna be fun watching them slay each other!

[wikus]

Reading the comments of these butt-hurt apple fanboys is really entertaining. Its like they willingly and blindly support Big Brother at any cost and Big Brother can do no wrong. Also, choice is a bad thing apparently.

[*LTD*]

What is it with people thinking software, files and ideas-put-into-practice should be free? Apple is in the business of invention, and they deserve what they earn. Someone actually wrote on this thread that what HTC has done by copying just about everything that Apple has created as being "good for competition". Geezus, man, go criminals, go.

Nah, it's all fair and square. Let the courts figure it out and help everyone clarify their positions.

This is actually a good thing. We'll see who stands where and who owns what, and who needs to change up their game.

This is why the system exists. Let all parties test each others' IP.

[apolloa]

Microsoft owns zero of Apple. They had a one time $150 million infusion of non-voting share investment, back in 1997 that Bill and Steve announced in Boston.

They sold it the next year.

I have no facts, but wouldn't MS have to of done that anyway under competition rules? As in sell the shares after a set period?

[*LTD*]

Reading the comments of these butt-hurt apple fanboys is really entertaining. Its like they willingly and blindly support Big Brother at any cost and Big Brother can do no wrong. Also, choice is a bad thing apparently.

Except Apple isn't actually "Big Brother." Nor is any consumer tech company.

[KnightWRX]

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

Again for the people just tuning in : Android is an operating system, a piece of software. iPhone is a mobile handset, a piece of hardware.

Android is not a copy of the iPhone. That would be like saying Photoshop is a copy of a Logitech mouse.

[Mad-B-One]

This will not happen, even apple has all the cash to buy every single phone manufacturers on earth. US justice department will stop it.

You don't have to buy it, just have enough shares to block.

[wikus]

Not yet............

Apple will loose, they are going to loose market share to Android sooner or later too, and when Samsung have it's day in court and beat Apple........

I would imagine Google is beginning to get annoyed with Apple, it's gonna be fun watching them slay each other!

Now I know why Steve Jobs resigned as CEO. Go out while on top, cuz the future looks bleak for Apple. Its only a matter of time before Apple's locked down 1984-George-Orwell like ways are taken over by... you know, CHOICE.

[rmwebs]

You want the patent troll to win?

I think you'll find Apple has started more of these little patent lawsuits than HTC...so based on your own definition of 'patent troll', Apple is worse ;)

[Benjamins]

Yes bc having a choice is good. Just bc the iphone influenced the market doesnt mean other manufacturers should be stuck in the past with devices that look like my first nokia.

if you want to create a phone that looks and works like the iPhone, maybe ... just maybe you should license some patent from Apple.

Who are you to say that there's no other way to make a smartphone? go spend some R&D dollars on making a brain controlled smartphone. Collect money from Apple when they want to make a brain controlled smartphone.

[*LTD*]

Now I know why Steve Jobs resigned as CEO. Go out while on top, cuz the future looks bleak for Apple. Its only a matter of time before Apple's locked down 1984-George-Orwell like ways are taken over by... you know, CHOICE.

Yeah, that must be the reason.

[BaldiMac]

Again for the people just tuning in : Android is an operating system, a piece of software. iPhone is a mobile handset, a piece of hardware.

Android is not a copy of the iPhone. That would be like saying Photoshop is a copy of a Logitech mouse.

Even though he is wrong, it's not really a big stretch to see that he was actually comparing Android to the iPhone OS.

[ct2k7]

Yeah, that must be the reason.

Good to see you are seeing some sense that isn't Apple bias. :apple:


Edit WTF... you're on ignore.... how can I still see your posts :/

[wikus]

Except Apple isn't actually "Big Brother." Nor is any consumer tech company.

Are you in denial?

[KnightWRX]

I think you'll find Apple has started more of these little patent lawsuits than HTC...so based on your own definition of 'patent troll', Apple is worse ;)

Both HTC and Apple are product vendors. They can't be patent trolls.

[BaldiMac]

Are you in denial?

Nah. He probably just actually read the book and understands what Big Brother actually was.

[*LTD*]

Good to see you are seeing some sense that isn't Apple bias. :apple:


Edit WTF... you're on ignore.... how can I still see your posts :/

It's magical. Just like my sarcasm.

[wikus]

Nah. He probably just actually read the book and understands what Big Brother actually was.

I read the book as well. And I see the similarities, far more than the picture below:

http://ungraphic.com/stuff/steve_bigbrother_jobs.jpg

Or this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk

[nutjob]

If I'm not mistaken, a patent troll is just looking for lawsuits to file and really not defending any legitimate products. They are just using the patents they hold to hopefully make some money.

I think anyone wishing HTC or any other Android smartphone maker well in their suits against Apple is delusional.

Does anyone remember what smartphones looked like and how they worked prior to 2007?

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

And for that matter, Android would never have had any support if ATT didn't have the exclusive with the Iphone.

People purchased Android phones because they were "like" the Iphone, but were on better networks (Verizon et al).

You're assuming (a) the Android work doesn't predate Apple's work and (b) that they don't share a common ancestor.

[*LTD*]

Are you in denial?

No, I'm literate.

[nutjob]

Except Apple isn't actually "Big Brother." Nor is any consumer tech company.

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

[TraceyS/FL]

I think every company has the right to defend their IP. Period.

I don't think it should be allowed to use patents given after a lawsuit was filed. That is a CYA move and there should be some sort of timeframe factored in.

And, if HTC is allowed to use these patents to defend/sue Apple, then any decision should be reversed if they give them back to Google in a few months.

But really, defending your IP is the right you get when you innovate.

[thespacekid]

How does HTC have any standing in court? I thought Google bought them. Perhaps Google has licensed them to HTC? In any event, shouldn't Google be the one suing Apple?

[840quadra]

Apple built the iPhone on the shoulder of giants in the mobile phone industry.

The biggest game changer was not Apple iOS but the fact that multi touch capacities touch screens had become cheap, reliable and good enough to put into phones.

Apple help show how to make a touch screen OS but they already had several idea that worked. Hell look at it and you will noticed the basic interface of the phone is a lot like dumb phones at the time that were touch screen only. Grid of icon.
Apple and Android biggest advantage was not having to deal with legacy support like everyone else.

Right, but to simply say it was only the capacitive screen that made the iPhone a success, is a bit closed minded IMO. Touch screen interfaces on PDAs and smart phones existed before the iPhone. One could also argue that they borrowed much of the interface from their Newton product that pre-dates the modern Smart Phone.

It was the entire package Apple provided, not just the screen, that made the iPhone the success it was. Multi-Touch interactions, orientation sensors, proximity sensors, software, and arguably attractive hardware made the iPhone stand out as a complete device.

If it was just the screen that made the iPhone such a sucsess, why was the first android phone the clunky G1, and not the more elegant (and much later) Nexus 1?

More on Topic to this thread, As I said in an earlier post, I have no issues with a company protecting a patent they came up with. Companies on the Android platform have indeed made added advancements in Multi-Touch capable OS devices, and should also protect those features as Apple has theirs.

[BaldiMac]

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

Yep. That's exactly the same as a totalitarian dictator of a ubiquitous surveillance state. How could I have missed that? :rolleyes:

Wait, except for the fact that your statement isn't true. You can install whatever software you want on an iPhone. Even Android!

[*LTD*]

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

Apple isn't limiting your personal freedoms or keeping you under constant surveillance. There's no political or social oppression going on here. You can choose to not buy Apple products.

They're tech companies. If they choose a vetted App-Store model, that isn't oppressive, it's just adopting a standard.

Either that or you need to put down your mobile device once in a while.

[robT9]

Again for the people just tuning in : Android is an operating system, a piece of software. iPhone is a mobile handset, a piece of hardware.

Android is not a copy of the iPhone. That would be like saying Photoshop is a copy of a Logitech mouse.

Thanks for the clarification. We really needed that in the conversation.

And yes...Android is clearly a copy of iOS, which first appeared in the 2007 iphone.

[Oletros]

Thanks for the clarification. We really needed that in the conversation.

And yes...Android is clearly a copy of iOS, which first appeared in the 2007 iphone.

And the reasons is clearly a copy are....

[KnightWRX]

And yes...Android is clearly a copy of iOS, which first appeared in the 2007 iphone.

How so ?

My iPhone has no widgets, it has no configurable desktops, it doesn't have multi-tasking (only task backgrounding) in user applications. It has these bad notifications that pop over whatever I'm doing all the time and need to be manually dismissed...

Android has all these things. I don't get where you get it's a copy of iOS since it has tons of features iOS doesn't have.

Also, Android is a VM based operating system, where code (written in the Java language) is compiled to bytecode executed by Davlik. While there is an NDK, that is not the preferred method of writing and building apps. Compared to iOS which uses a traditional compiled language that is compiled directly to machine code...

Again, no copying there.

So what is it about Android you find was copied from iOS ?

[shanmugam]

I would ask which company creates more jobs?

Apple Vs HTC?

Sure, apple is making lots of millionaires lately but jobs? Also remember outside of US (other than manufacturing, and the stores) apple does not create any jobs...

Apple wants to keep all the money to itself. Investors are happy but not everyone.

I am not sure whom to support.

[Oletros]

I would ask which company creates more jobs?

Apple Vs HTC?

Sure, apple is making lots of millionaires lately but jobs? Also remember outside of US (other than manufacturing, and the stores) apple does not create any jobs...

Apple wants to keep all the money to itself. Investors are happy but not everyone.

I am not sure whom to support.

Ein? Apple creates more jobs than HTC

[zen.state]

Just imagine how much better tech would be if all these companies spent the billions they do in court on product development.

[Lennholm]

Have you used a Blackberry Phone or Windows Phone? They aren't anything like the iPhone. Many of the Android phones look identical, most notably Samsung's line. That's why Android is getting blasted. They are a ridiculously easy target.

Despite the constant bickering from Android fans about how Apple patented a rectangle screen, and that there are are only many ways to make a smartphone, Windows and Blackberry are perfect examples of how you can make a smartphone that isn't a replica.

This is funny, in the threads regarding the dispute between Apple and Samsung HTC is usually used as an example of how you can do something different from Apple, that Samsung didn't have to do it so similar.
Now in this thread regarding the dispute between HTC and Apple all of a sudden HTC is just as much of a blatant copy cat as Samsung is, apperently. Not surprising here though.
Where will it stop? I mean, now you use blackberry and WP as an example of how something can be done different but what will you say when Apple decides to sue MS? My bet is you will forget how you used MS to support Apples case, just as you (you as in Apple fanboys in general) now forgot how HTC was used as an example, and go with the usual "Good! MS should learn to iinnovate instead of copying".

If you disagree with frivolous patent litigation, you disagree with it regardless who is on the receiving end.

Apple are suing based on their own design and technology innovations, not patents they were given last week to use purely against others. HTC are acting far more troll like than Apple in this instance.

Maaany of Apple's "innovations" are in reality Apple's aquisitions / some one elses innovation. What do we know about the terms HTC got these patents? Why assume they were just given them for free?

[BaldiMac]

I would ask which company creates more jobs?

Apple Vs HTC?

Sure, apple is making lots of millionaires lately but jobs? Also remember outside of US (other than manufacturing, and the stores) apple does not create any jobs...

That's a good one! "If you don't consider all the jobs Apple creates, than they don't create any jobs." :rolleyes:

[hot spare]

I would ask which company creates more jobs?

Apple Vs HTC?



If I may try to guess, nobody created more jobs than IBM/MS. Then you can also try checking this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_employees

[shanmugam]

That's a good one! "If you don't consider all the jobs Apple creates, than they don't create any jobs." :rolleyes:

you have to consider Apple had their employees in 2007 (before iPhone introduction) vs 2011.

I think (guess) they added about 20,000 employees or less

definitely they do not share their lions of share of profits with the suppliers/vendor/retailers ...

I am not arguing, definitely apple is not like HP/Dell/Lenovo

when you talk about employment, you need to talk about the whole ecosystem.

[djrod]

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

This BS has to stop, does Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft sound like big brothers because you can't install whatever you want in their video game systems?

They don't, do they?

[lilo777]

Wait until Google completes acquisition of Motorola and get all those 17,000 patents. Apple will start paying loyalties to all Android manufacturers for every iPhone and iPad they sell :D

[bushido]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; de-de) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

meh all those arguments of who copied who r pointless, let alone on a board of one of the parties. this just ends up as a endless argument with no winner, why bother trying to change anyones opinion. its not up for us to decide ^^

all i can say is that i'm glad for apples involvement in the phone industry, other wise id still be paying 5 bucks for 1mb of data ^^ but i cant say i dont admire or miss certain features that android has to offer like widgets. both have their flaws but im glad we have both to chose from

[JackAxe]

Again for the people just tuning in : Android is an operating system, a piece of software. iPhone is a mobile handset, a piece of hardware.

Android is not a copy of the iPhone. That would be like saying Photoshop is a copy of a Logitech mouse.

Common sense, a rarity in these forums now days. :)

Anyways, I always respect your posts, as you inject logic into these forums, which in recent years have been overrun by extreme zealots.

[apolloa]

Apple doesn't employ anyone to make it's products, it out sources that. And in doing so it demonstrates it's support for a communist regiem who has deplorable human rights records, just like a lot of western companies.
Perhaps you should remember that when you talk about the jobs a western company has generated....

Forcing the blockade of a launch of a 7" tablet stating consumers will confuse it with you 9" tablet is not innovating or patent trolling. It is a direct attempt to prevent loss of market share, and displays your incapability to innovate instead to keep that share.

[southernpaws]

I wonder if Apple is the type of bully to run when the kids start fighting back or if they'll just try and bully harder.

I love Apple products and everything they do, but I hate what they are doing with these patent lawsuits. Go HTC!

The multiple "Go HTC" claims are bugging me.

The bully analogy is ridiculous. Try saying that when everybody is copying answers from your test, and when you try to complain to the teacher, the teacher says "Now now nobody likes a tattletale."

Say you're an artist. You drop an album with a bunch of killer hooks. Like Queen's "Under Pressure" caliber stuff. You're successful and make money.

People start releasing albums with songs that copy elements of your songs. Lyrics, melodies, "ting ting ting t-t-ting ting. TING TING ting ting t-t-ting ting. It's a totally different song" kinda stuff, worse really, because they're actually staying in the same genre as you, not only copying you but watering down the things that make you distinctive.

Would anybody have your back? Or would people be saying "hey, competition is good, you need to play nice and share." Not exactly the fundamentals of capitalism there.

Seriously, this whole thing about claiming apple is a bad sport is tantamount to communism. Like Hitler. Godwin's law invoked, can the discussion be over yet? Kthanks.

----------

Apple doesn't employ anyone to make it's products, it out sources that. And in doing so it demonstrates it's support for a communist regiem who has deplorable human rights records, just like a lot of western companies.
Perhaps you should remember that when you talk about the jobs a western company has generated....

Forcing the blockade of a launch of a 7" tablet stating consumers will confuse it with you 9" tablet is not innovating or patent trolling. It is a direct attempt to prevent loss of market share, and displays your incapability to innovate instead to keep that share.

Clearly Apple isn't worried about the new 7" tab since the first one was such a smash hit. It's a matter of defending your patents/trademarks; if you're not diligent in defending them at every turn, you lose your right to defend them at all.

Apple clearly has no problems innovating. but if they didn't defend their patents/trademarks, the plagiarism would only get worse.

everybody else seems to have trouble innovating, so if Apple can enforce their patents and keep the industry on their toes, that's when we will see more innovation. The longer the competitors are allowed to copy, the less true innovation we will see.

but by all means. keep on saying that "competition is good" and that "apple is stifling innovation"

[The Beatles]

Now I know why Steve Jobs resigned as CEO. Go out while on top, cuz the future looks bleak for Apple.....

it amazes me how many people deny their love for apple. Who in their right mind would go to a company user site to ridicule said company? I would never waste my time going to a company user site that I'm not interested in.

embrace your feelings wikis, just do the :apple:

:p

[AppleScruff1]

Steve invented the phone, not Alexander Graham Bell. Apple invented mankind, hence the lawsuits against everyone, even though they copied many things from other companies, it's ok because it is Apple and Apple can do no wrong. The rest of the world is messed up, not Apple.

[StyxMaker]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8L1)

Except Apple isn't actually "Big Brother." Nor is any consumer tech company.

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

You have the choice not to use their product therefor they cannot be 'Big Brother' in the context of the book 1984.

[AppleScruff1]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8L1)



You have the choice not to use their product therefor they cannot be 'Big Brother' in the context of the book 1984.

Nothing is but what is not.

[accessoriesguy]

to imagine that the founders of google were taken under the wing by Steve Jobs himself. Imagine what they could still be doing if they had continued to work together, rather than split up over these patents.

It would be so much better if they took up each others challenge, and released great products and services, rather than try to get money off of each others latest creations.

[praveenpg]

If I'm not mistaken, a patent troll is just looking for lawsuits to file and really not defending any legitimate products. They are just using the patents they hold to hopefully make some money.

I think anyone wishing HTC or any other Android smartphone maker well in their suits against Apple is delusional.

Does anyone remember what smartphones looked like and how they worked prior to 2007?

Apple should get the credit it deserves, as Android is clearly a copy. There would be no Android without the Iphone.

And for that matter, Android would never have had any support if ATT didn't have the exclusive with the Iphone.

People purchased Android phones because they were "like" the Iphone, but were on better networks (Verizon et al).

Going by this analogy, none of the OS (including Mac OSX) would have had a UI (mouse pointer based). Clearly all of them were "inspired" by Xerox.

[apolloa]

Clearly Apple isn't worried about the new 7" tab since the first one was such a smash hit. It's a matter of defending your patents/trademarks; if you're not diligent in defending them at every turn, you lose your right to defend them at all.

Apple clearly has no problems innovating. but if they didn't defend their patents/trademarks, the plagiarism would only get worse.

everybody else seems to have trouble innovating, so if Apple can enforce their patents and keep the industry on their toes, that's when we will see more innovation. The longer the competitors are allowed to copy, the less true innovation we will see.

but by all means. keep on saying that "competition is good" and that "apple is stifling innovation"

Really? So do please tell me exactly what patents a 7" tablet breaches then? Apple has no patents on the internals of it's devices, it doesn't make them to begin with, iOS looks nothing like Androids latest tablet OS, in fact we should remember Apple has had to resort to hiring one man who has made a rip off version of Androids notification system for jail breaked iPhones, just to give people what they want, real innovation there..
And as for looks, it's a 7" tablet, it is physically smaller, it cannot possibly be confused with an iPad! Unless you are going to state Apple holds a patent on square objects? :roll eyes:

And another point on Apples innovation, it has taken them several years to catch up hardware wise with other smartphones, in some respects it still hasn't, Nokia for instance has far better cameras, when the first iPhone was launched it had one of the worst cameras on the market, it lacked 3G, it's bluetooth was a joke and it still lacks some stack support.

[MattInOz]

If I remember correctly, Apple might have enough pocket money to take over someone like RIM. I mean, they only have to take 25% + 1 share and can block every major decision - e.g. attacking :apple: Inc. The other thing I don't understand is how Apple can be one of the major consumes of Samsung products for their line and be in bitter dispute about the Galaxy tab etc. Same thing with Google Maps.

BTW: That is not far-fetched: Microsoft owns a big chunk of Apple (that is why :apple: didn't go bankrupt) and Apple and MS could fight about who stole ideas for windows from whom. But they don't. Even though they seem to be bitter contestants, they are not really. Office is available for Macs, even Windows is installable on Apple hardware. Also the patent law suits seem to be geared towards Google's Android and not Windows phones. I think that MS might even just support Apple in that whole deal because they still have a crutch against Google for not being competitive with the MSN search engine. :D

Companies suing each other is just part of business,....
Like going to the Sushi bar for informal lunch meetings or drinking bottles of scotch/whiskey with your rivals.

[LagunaSol]

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

So Microsoft (Xbox) is Big Brother.
Nintendo (Wii) is Big Brother.
Amazon (Kindle) is Big Brother.
Etc.

:rolleyes:

Good grief, you people have no clue what the concept of Big Brother is all about. If there's any corporate entity with Big Brother potential, it's Google. Open your eyes. And, you know, maybe read the book?

[zorinlynx]

You'd think all these companies would eventually realize how much money they're throwing away on lawyers filing these ridiculous suits against each other (and really, is there a clear winner here? Everyone is suing everyone else practically!) and just stop this nonsense.

[SandynJosh]

I personally have an issue with any company that purchases an other simply to protect patents they didn't create. Or a company that simply buys a patent in order to protect it, or make money from lawsuits.

If the company in question is actually using the technology, it is a little better, however, I still feel it goes against the entire purpose of the Patent system. I don't care if it is Apple, Google, HTC or otherwise, the behavior just seems petty.

Less litigation, more innovation please.

You should know that innovation leads to litigation. Furthermore, for you education, one of the biggest patent battles of the twentith century was between an auto manufacturer and what many on this board would call a patent troll. The troll in this case was an engineer that invented interruptable windshield wiper action. It was completely ripped off by the auto industry who figured that they were too big to sue. It took decades but eventually the engineer did win.

If you want innovation ten the patent system is the way it can be encouraged. The engineer didn't need to go into the car manufacturing business to have a legit claim to his invention, but he did need to litigate to force big industry to pay him for his work.

If I remember correctly, Apple might have enough pocket money to take over someone like RIM. I mean, they only have to take 25% + 1 share and can block every major decision - e.g. attacking :apple: Inc. The other thing I don't understand is how Apple can be one of the major consumes of Samsung products for their line and be in bitter dispute about the Galaxy tab etc. Same thing with Google Maps.

The first part of the above quote is rediculous. In addition, it's likely illegal as well.

As for Apple's suit against Samsung: Apple is suing the part of Samsung that builds consumer equipment. They buy their components from a wholly different division. It's akin to suing the tobacco company for lung cancer, that owns Kraft cheese and still buying Kraft cheese. RJR and Kraft are two different divisions.

[SIZE=1]Why does someone have to be an expert on something to discuss a subject? I could chat all day about the Saturn V rocket but I ain't a NASA engineer.

Like I've said before, everyone I work with has an opinion on the professional footballers and managers who play/manage the teams they support yet none of them are premier league footballers/managers. It's good to talk about interesting subjects, expert or not.

If I felt like listening to a group Monday Morning Quarterbacks gassing on and on about something they barely have knowledge on, I'd first go get a lobotomy. Many people on this board expect a much better grasp of the subject matter than what you find bearable.

Unless you want to find yourself on the wrong side of many board member's
"ignore" button you should consider what that might feel like.

[LagunaSol]

So Google is going to fight this war by proxy eh? Pansies.

[SirDaav]

And just days prior Google's legal boffin said buying and transferring patents was contrary to patent law.... Now they are deliberately siding with a vendor to conspire against another...

i smell a lawsuit from the government next !

[neko girl]

Last time Apple got a partial victory, HTC stock dove 20%. Must be working very well for them.

Maybe they're just tired of paying licensees every time they make a phone.

[pacmacman]

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

Good thing you don't like Google then because they track everything you do so they can sell your info to their advertisers.

Oh wait. You do like Google. Whoops.

[MattInOz]

Going by this analogy, none of the OS (including Mac OSX) would have had a UI (mouse pointer based). Clearly all of them were "inspired" by Xerox.

And it's really clear Xerox had no idea what they had, their GUI's are still horrendous.

[macUser2007]

[SIZE=1]
You have the choice not to use their product therefor they cannot be 'Big Brother' in the context of the book 1984.

Well, Apple is trying to force others out of the market by patent-trolling, so that consumers cannot buy a 7" tablet which looks less like an iPad, than the iPad looks like Samsung's own 5 year old LCD photo frame (http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/09/samsung-digital-picture-frame-stores-pics-movies-music/)....

Obviously not exactly Big Brother, but definitely a Big Bully. Apple has been pushing the envelope in obtaining all sorts of patents which would never have been allowed a few years ago, then threatening competitors with expensive lawsuits if the use stuff like a black bezel or elastic scroll.

Smaller companies trying to compete simply cannot afford to fight, even if they stand on firm ground legally.

The end result is that competition is stifled and consumers are deprived of legitimate product choices.

Apple does a lot of good things, but this is not one of them.

[AppleScruff1]

Well, Apple is trying to force others out of the market by patent-trolling, so that consumers cannot buy a 7" tablet which looks less like an iPad, than the iPad looks like Samsung's own 5 year old LCD photo frame (http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/09/samsung-digital-picture-frame-stores-pics-movies-music/)....

Obviously not exactly Big Brother, but definitely a Big Bully. Apple has been pushing the envelope in obtaining all sorts of patents which would never have been allowed a few years ago, then threatening competitors with expensive lawsuits if the use stuff like a black bezel or elastic scroll.

Smaller companies trying to compete simply cannot afford to fight, even if they stand on firm ground legally.

The end result is that competition is stifled and consumers are deprived of legitimate product choices.

Apple does a lot of good things, but this is not one of them.

Great post! And so true.

[toddybody]

Im tired of all this patent trolling. Apple and Google should just resort to gang violence.

http://odeon.typepad.com/silverscreen/gangs4.jpg

[a.gomez]

Fantastic! :)

[b_scott]

great, another acquisition so someone can sue another company. :rolleyes:

I work at an IP firm and I still think most of this stuff is crap.

[Kabeyun]

Isn't this collusion? An agreement made between two companies to limit open competition? Suing someone over a patent that you didn't even create and don't use sure seems like "limiting open competition".

+1

Is it legal to give your pals patents so they can sue someone? I'm hoping for an answer, not an opinion. Any patent lawyers out there?

[Antares]

Arn should just go ahead and start that Apple lawsuit news site already. There's apparently plenty of news and content to keep such a site running. Or maybe make it a general tech lawsuit site. A single, convenient place to read all the details and news relating to lawsuits in the Apple, tech and phone industry.

Hah! looks like someone already has applelawsuit.com and applelawsuits.com registered! Crazy!

[leroypants]

Except Apple isn't actually "Big Brother." Nor is any consumer tech company.

I'll try to remember that next time I read a story about apple employees fourfold cops showing up to a private citizens home accusing them of stealing a phone based on nothing more than the gps coordinates from a phone.

[Obese Lobsters]

I'll try to remember that next time I read a story about apple employees fourfold cops showing up to a private citizens home accusing them of stealing a phone based on nothing more than the gps coordinates from a phone.

*spoilers*

To be more more accurate to the book, 1984, you'll remember that next time the military is chasing after you and torturing you and your loved ones until you confess your love for Apple. If you refuse, Apple will brainwash you until you do love them and then they will kill for your rebellion At this point your existence will be remembered by no one because Apple will erase your existence from history and anyone that says otherwise will be threatened by Apple as well.

*end spoilers*

This above is standard business practice for Apple because after all they are supposedly "Big Brother".

[FakeWozniak]

Google is evil.

This is an FTC violation IMO.

[*LTD*]

Someone's asking the right questions . . .

------------------------------------------

http://daringfireball.net/

Why Didn’t Google Sue Apple Directly? ★
Nilay Patel has questions for Google re: the patents it bought and gave to HTC which HTC then used to countersue Apple:

http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/07/htc-sues-apple-patent-infringement-patents-purchased-google/

Why didn’t Google sue Apple directly?

Did Google acquire these patents knowing they would be alleged against Apple, by Google or a third party?

Has Google started acquiring patents for express purpose of offensive litigation, which it’s promised it would never do?

How much did HTC pay Google for these patents? Market price? Or is Google subsidizing HTC’s legal defense by acquiring patents and selling them for nominal amounts?

Will Google similarly assist other Android vendors who are being sued, like Samsung and Motorola?

And lastly — and possibly most importantly — why didn’t Google sue Apple directly?

Yes, I repeated a question — it bears repeating. If these nine patents are strong enough for HTC to assert them against Apple in an attempt to change the balance in its ongoing litigation, it’s worth asking why Google didn’t litigate them against Apple in an attempt to secure a blanket settlement that covers all of Android for the entire ecosystem. We’ll keep digging for more info, but between this development and the Motorola acquisition, it seems clear that Google’s decided to start playing some legal hardball.

Like I said, fair’s fair once you start shooting in a patent war, and Apple started the shooting in this one. But can Google spare us the crocodile tears going forward? They complained only when they had no relevant patents, and soon as they got some, they gave them to HTC to sue with them.

[FakeWozniak]

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

Apple doesn't sell my personal information. Apple doesn't cache my copyrighted web site. Apple doesn't scan my book and make it available to the world for free. Apple doesn't dominate web search and promote higher paying customers results. Apple doesn't undermine other industries by giving away free what others have to sell. Apple isn't being hacked by the Chinese government for not being a Big Brother.

[AZREOSpecialist]

You know what? All of you who are lambasting Apple can go suck it. Apple invented the iPhone, the app store (not just any "app store"), and the entire ecosystem that drives the iPhone and iPad. And that's an open invitation to everyone in the market to copy Apple and to feel entitled to "compete" by copying the leader?

HTC, Samsung, etc. do not have the right to copy the iPhone, how it looks, how it feels, and how it behaves. Apple has every right to protect their invention - which includes not just iOS and related products, but perhaps the entire market segment that wouldn't exist if it weren't for Apple. Competition is healthy when you bring something new to the table, not crank out iterations of what has already been done (and on someone else's dime).

I hope Apple sues them all into the ground, wins, and forces all of these thieves to stop making iPhone-like phones.

[LeakedDave]

To the idiots that are calling Apple "big brother" because they "control" what software you install on iOS: you're stupid.

There's this thing called HTML5. It's an open standard that is pushed by many companies, including your almighty open Google.

Then there's this thing on iOS called web apps. It lets you write apps purely in HTML5 for iOS, and you distribute it through you know, the web. The wide open web. There is nothing forcing you to use the app store. See Amazon's Cloud Reader web app and PlayBoy's web app.

Web Apps work exactly like native iOS apps. They don't run inside the web browser they run as their own process.

There are even "Web App" stores that are themselves, web apps.

Apple also embraces and pushes all of the latest HTML5 developments. See: webkit.

And now, for God sake, stop calling Apple closed. Thanks.

P.S. jailbreakme.com

[AZREOSpecialist]

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

Nobody forces you to buy an iPhone.

[Fukui]

Just bc the iphone influenced the market doesnt mean other manufacturers should be stuck in the past with devices that look like my first nokia.

If those influences are patented, then yes, yes they should. They didn't do the hard work to think things out, they just went and copied. Granted android has lots of interesting features, widgets being one of them... and yes I agree choice is good, but patents unprotected are patents lost. Its the same with copyright...

[AidenShaw]

So Google is going to fight this war by proxy eh? Pansies.

Google wasn't sued - why are you using a homosexual slur against them?

[FakeWozniak]

Why Didn’t Google Sue Apple Directly?

1. How did you get a star in your post? Does Gruber have an inside with the font people? Hmmmm :-)

2. Google would have sued, but they don't actually sell a product. Hard to claim damages when you give your stuff away free.

Kinda reminds me of the US movie Charlie Wilson's war where the US (Google) fought USSR (Apple) in Afghanistan (Mobile OS Wars of 2011). The US bought captured Soviet weapons and put them in the hands of the rebels to avoid the traceable connection to funding the Soviet opposition. Except Google could care less about traceability. They are for all intents suing Apple now. Same way Apple has been suing Google. This will change if Google completes the purchase of Motorola.

Google looked worse today with the Oracle debacle (fosspatents.blogspot.com), and now they stooped even lower with this.

Karma's gonna get us all in the end. I think Apple has better Karma.

[LeakedDave]

1. How did you get a star in your post? Does Gruber have an inside with the font people? Hmmmm :-)

2. Google would have sued, but they don't actually sell a product. Hard to claim damages when you give your stuff away free.

Kinda reminds me of the US movie Charlie Wilson's war where the US (Google) fought USSR (Apple) in Afghanistan (Mobile OS Wars of 2011). The US bought captured Soviet weapons and put them in the hands of the rebels to avoid the traceable connection to funding the Soviet opposition. Except Google could care less about traceability. They are for all intents suing Apple now. Same way Apple has been suing Google. This will change if Google completes the purchase of Motorola.

Google looked worse today with the Oracle debacle (fosspatents.blogspot.com), and now they stooped even lower with this.

Karma's gonna get us all in the end. I think Apple has better Karma.

Not to mention Android is licensed under the apache license which means its given away free, free as in free beer. So suing over it being copied would be mute.

[CWallace]

Apple should work more on improving their devices than doing this dirty war.

So HTC and Samsung and others can just copy that improvement, as well?

Sucks to be the King, I guess.

[FakeWozniak]

Google wasn't sued - why are you using a homosexual slur against them?

Pansy means wimp where I come from. It's a flower. Petunia would work too. :-)

I would agree with LagunaSol that Google is fighting by proxy and they are taking a lame approach. I think it is still more of a chess game than a full blown battle royal. This will be a book and a movie in a few years... Pirates of Silicon Valley 2: Google F***s Everyone. Web sites like Asymco, DaringFireball, FossPatents, etc will be historical references.

[Gasu E.]

You have to explain how HTC is the patent Troll. Apple has been the sue happy troll here. Not the other way around.

"Patent troll" means something very specific. The term derives from the fairy tale, "The Three Billy Goats Gruff." The troll stands under a bridge and eats anyone attempting to cross the bridge. The term "patent troll" refers to some entity that acquires a patent and attempts to take a bite out of anyone "passing by", without adding any value themselves. By definition, the patents of a patent troll are always acquired. Now, I don't think HTC is actually a patent troll, since their suit is defensive. But certainly Apple meets none of the conditions of being a patent troll, since they are defending their own intellectual property employed in development of a very successful product.

[allmanbrother]

Less litigation, more innovation please.

Quite possibly the best quote to sum up what tech companies should be doing.

[kharvel]

Apple decides what software can be installed on iPhones and other iOS devices. Sounds like Big Brother to me.

Based on your logic:

Microsoft is Big Brother because Microsoft decides what software can be installed on Xboxes

Sony is Big Brother because Sony decides what software can be installed on Vaio laptops, Sony desktops, Sony Walkman, and any other Sony products.

Ford is Big Brother because Ford decides what engines and transmission can be installed in Ford automobiles.

[Insert company name] is Big Brother because [Insert Company Name] decides what [insert components/software] can be installed in [Insert Company Name] products.

Do you still stand by your logic and argument?

[Stella]

To sum up this thread so far:
Yay - Go HTC
Booo - HTC
Yay - Apple
Boo -Apple
Where's the pop corn?

:D

[AidenShaw]

WTF with the slur connection already! Are you looking to start something or are you just messing around? Effeminate, wimp, etc is how I see it used. That's in your dictionary too. I guess we don't have as many mean people where I live. We are pretty nice where I live.

If they're not "out to offend", then why use "offensive slang".

Words can hurt. Gay slurs hurt. "Nice people" try to avoid offensive slang.

Just say "no", use another term. "Wimp" is great - no offensive overtones.

If you didn't know before that "pansy" is offensive slang, now you do - and maybe next time you'll pick another word. (I realize, FakeWoz, that you didn't use the term - but the second person pronoun seemed the best fit.)

George W. Bush didn't realize how fundamentally offensive it was when he referred to the war on terrorism as a "crusade" (http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html) - but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a huge, damaging gaffe.


AidenShaw, please relax, nobody is out to offend homosexuals by calling Google legal staff effeminate for its indirect lawsuit tactics. Well at least that I saw, anyway.

Are you kidding me?

Calling Google staff "effeminate" is not offensive?

That's the essence of the "gay slur" - it is based on an assumption that female is bad, and that a male with feminine traits is worse. And what if the Google staff is female - then it's an anti-female slur as well.

"Pansy" is just unacceptable unless you're talking about http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Pansy_Viola_x_wittrockiana_Red_Cultivar_Flower_2000px.jpg/220px-Pansy_Viola_x_wittrockiana_Red_Cultivar_Flower_2000px.jpg

Sorry for the rant, but I do volunteer support work with queer youth. These "off the cuff" homophobic slurs, even though often not consciously intended as slurs, do hurt. When a kid is struggling with sexual identity issues, these slurs add to the problem.

Please, realize that it's destructive, and find other words.

[RiverCitySlim]

At this point I hope Apple loses these patent cases. Android is currently the only mobile OS that is usable for me so I obviously hope it remains viable. Maybe one day Apple will make there system usable for me, it would be nice to have more choice but for now it doesn't seem to be a part of their business model.

[kdarling]

Apple doesn't sell my personal information.

Neither Google nor Apple sells our personal info directly to third parties.

Both Apple and Google sell ads based on what they know about us. For example, Apple uses our iTunes credit info and purchases to determine our gender, age, occupation, location, income, and various media preferences. They can even guess at our sexual preference using that info.

As long as an iTunes user is 13 years or older, Apple's iTunes privacy policy (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html#PRIVACY)says they can collect info about them.

By definition, the patents of a patent troll are always acquired. Now, I don't think HTC is actually a patent troll, since their suit is defensive. But certainly Apple meets none of the conditions of being a patent troll, since they are defending their own intellectual property employed in development of a very successful product.

Apple just paid a lot of money to obtain thousands of Nortel patents. It remains to be seen if they only use them for defensive purposes.

[hot spare]

One of the patents 6,868,283 (Technique allowing a status bar user response on a portable device graphic user interface)

This appears to me as the notification system patent. Simple, but could be dangerous in court.

http://goo.gl/N7lNX

It says "The present invention relates to a method for utilizing a graphic user interface in a portable electronic device. Specifically, the present invention pertains to a method of using a portion of a graphic user interface display to provide information to the user without disrupting an application in progress. The user interface provides tools that enable the user to answer or reject an incoming call, without interruption of applications already operating on the device during the call. On a portable electronic device that combines computer functions and wireless telephone functions, the user is able to view caller ID information, in an information window, while using another application. Further, the user is able to make a decision about answering or rejecting the call and execute the appropriate response, all without having to interrupt the application currently in use. It is appreciated that the portable electronic device could be a cellular phone, a personal data assistant, a pager, etc."

[BrianKonarsMac]

You want the patent troll to win?

Would love to hear your reasoning on this - how is HTC the patent troll? Apple may have to sue to stay ahead, but it can't fight everyone and win, and that is the direction this is headed.

[840quadra]

You should know that innovation leads to litigation. Furthermore, for you education, one of the biggest patent battles of the twentith century was between an auto manufacturer and what many on this board would call a patent troll. The troll in this case was an engineer that invented interruptable windshield wiper action. It was completely ripped off by the auto industry who figured that they were too big to sue. It took decades but eventually the engineer did win.

If you want innovation ten the patent system is the way it can be encouraged. The engineer didn't need to go into the car manufacturing business to have a legit claim to his invention, but he did need to litigate to force big industry to pay him for his work.


Haha, For my education. Nice little jab there :D

My comment on litigation was in the exact context of the post of mine you quoted. These companies need to stop going out of their way to file the next lawsuit, and continue working on all these inventions we all love to use. If they are patenting & protecting items that they invented, or came up with, awesome, they should!

FWIW, I am actually fully aware of that case you mentioned, and Robert Kearns. I have been in Detroit a few times ;) Regardless, you have a great example of how the patent system is intended to work, though I wouldn't call it the biggest patent battle. Kearns was not a troll, he was the actual inventor, who tried to sell his technology to an auto industry that rejected his idea. They, in turn, violated patent law by using the technology anyway without licensing or purchasing the rights.

Kearns didn't go out and purchase the invention or patent from someone not using it, in order to stop companies from innovating, or charge them licensing fees. He was protecting his own invention, not one he purchased from someone else as in this recent case with HTC.

[iTim Dragan]

OMG, again htc crap is trying to beat apple ambits own a game don't they understand apple invented the smartphones etc and they are copying, how in the world can they lawsuit apple when these are all apple ideas go Apple and boo htc yiu guys copy but also make your products crap!!!!!:apple:

[SandynJosh]

One of the patents 6,868,283 (Technique allowing a status bar user response on a portable device graphic user interface)

This appears to me as the notification system patent. Simple, but could be dangerous in court.

A patent can easily be granted that don't stand up in court. With some luck a whole raft of these patents (Apple's as well as others) will get court tested during this whole bruhaha and that will clear the air greatly. Often a company will pay a small patent royalty rather then incur the cost of challenging the patent in court, but in situations like the Apple/HTC suit and counter suit there is far more on the line than royalty payments. Apple wants to deny HTC (and viz a viz all other companies that they can bring to heel if they win this case) the right to manufacture using Apple's patents.

It may be that both Apple and HTC will be recognized as having some valid patents. In that case, both companies may agree to horse trade and declare a truce of sorts, or than can go back and innovate solutions around particular patent issues. Regardless, with court tested patents Apple will have greater threatening power with the other 30+ Android phone manufacturers to get them to cease production or innovate.

One last curious outcome regarding the patents transferred to HTC from Google: Can Apple argue that those particular patents have no place in this trial as HTC cannot show that Apple harmed them in any way by not abiding by the patents in the past?? I'm just now sure how that may play out.

[bearcatrp]

Apple doesn't sell my personal information

No, they just monitor your location without your consent, let developers introduce apps that's steal your information (angry birds for one) for them to sell. Yeah, apple wouldn't do anything against the consumer, cough cough.

If HTC legally owns these patents, then pay up apple. No different than apple going after other companies for patent violations.

[Oletros]

OMG, again htc crap is trying to beat apple ambits own a game don't they understand apple invented the smartphones etc and they are copying, how in the world can they lawsuit apple when these are all apple ideas go Apple and boo htc yiu guys copy but also make your products crap!!!!!:apple:

Yeessss, Apple invented smartphones etc being etc all the universe

[whooda4]

If I may try to guess, nobody created more jobs than IBM/MS. Then you can also try checking this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_employees

That list is old, the us postal service is not making any money and has not for a couple years.

----------

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all i can say is that i'm glad for apples involvement in the phone industry, other wise id still be paying 5 bucks for 1mb of data ^^

I have had unlimited data since I went to sprint in 05 or 06. You just had a ****** plan

[vrDrew]

Apple just paid a lot of money to obtain thousands of Nortel patents. It remains to be seen if they only use them for defensive purposes.

Which means they have the potential to act like a patent-troll. Unlike HTC, which - by filing suit on a patent it has only owned for six days - already has. Apple has, so far, only sued on IP it either developed itself, or incorporates in its products. A distinction, to be sure, but an important one I think.

Google is in a world of hurt when it comes to Android. Handset manufacturers are already paying royalties to Microsoft for Android-infringing patents. The Oracle case keeps getting uglier and uglier. (Google has been trying, in vain, to keep damning internal e-mails out of the public record.) Its very hard to see a resolution that doesn't involve either fairly steep licensing fees paid to various IP holders and/or major revisions to Android that will remove a lot of the user functionality from the OS.

Google took shortcuts when it came to developing Android. The executives involved knew there were problems, but they went ahead - bragging at every opportunity about the hundreds of thousands of "activations" Android was scoring.

But they a) aren't making any money off Android; b) just paid $12 billion to buy a second-tier handset manufacturer; and c) are giving away dubious patents to all and sundry. Not a pretty picture.

Of course, the Android drones still think that Google is going to somehow overcome all this, and spend the hundreds of millions of dollars its going to take to make a decent tablet version of Android, fix the junk-filled wasteland that is the Android App market, while simultaneously conquering the TV set-top business, launch a viable Social networking business, and who knows what else.

Call me skeptical, but I don't think they can do it. And I have a strong suspicion that Eric Schmidt is quietly counting his blessings, and his billions, for being out of the line of fire in the coming Android Armageddon.

[2992]

These companies are now-a-days like wild dogs.

[ninewaters]

Apple should buy Bling and Yahoo!, starting a search engine fight against Google !

Google is showing signs of fatigue in their search engine sectors.

[Ijustfarted]

gather your patents, winter is coming

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/17400000/Eddard-Ned-Stark-game-of-thrones-17414858-550-826.jpg



seriously though, who started all these patent bs? I want to slap them

[MattInOz]

These companies are now-a-days like wild dogs.

Now-a-days you hear more about it, but I really doubt the behaviour is any different to the glossy past.

[callme]

So android is a copy of iPhone? what about blackberry and windows mobile? are a copy too?? all smartphones are copy from iPhone?? then i can say that mac os is a copy of windows just because windows came first? competence is not copy

Unfortunately Windows did not come first, Mac OS came first and MS copied it.

Try to get your facts right.

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Nexus S Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

In a surprising twist Google got criticized by many for their apparent inaction defending Android OEM's or Android as a whole on the past.

Fast forward to this defensive move to help and protect HTC and now Google are "pansies" for not attacking Apple directly. I think that this move gives more credence to the fact that Google are unwilling to use patents offensively. Call it proxy fighting as much said you like but Apple induced this proxy fight by going for HTC from the start.

Apple could step up and take this directly to Google but for some reason hasn't. Are Apple also "pansies" for not doing so?

[Juan007]

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Apple is the company that INVENTED the smart phone, and here you have a bunch of has-been second-rate losers going to court because they cannot win in the marketplace. Leeches.

[Ijustfarted]

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Apple is the company that INVENTED the smart phone, and here you have a bunch of has-been second-rate losers going to court because they cannot win in the marketplace. Leeches.

Karl Benz invented the car. Does that mean no other company should make cars? Just stop posting...

[Oletros]

[SIZE=1]
Apple is the company that INVENTED the smart phone

Yes, before 2.007 there wasn't smartphones, people using them were dreaming in Matrix.

[rmwebs]

Both HTC and Apple are product vendors. They can't be patent trolls.

Sigh...go back and read again. I said by his definition.


Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A5313e Safari/7534.48.3)

Apple is the company that INVENTED the smart phone, and here you have a bunch of has-been second-rate losers going to court because they cannot win in the marketplace. Leeches.

Might want to think about that a little...the first smartphone was released in 1992

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

[divinox]

I believe Apple OS with graphic interface came first but others like Commodore or Atari (not the current one, Inforgames bought the name Atari and renamed itself) might have been before Apple.

Don't believe me? Klick here! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system)

xerox parc. plain and simple. if you ever ask yourself, who invented this? but dont know. say xerox parc. more often than not, you will be right.

(at least more right than in naming something that came after it)

[adder7712]

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Apple is the company that INVENTED the smart phone, and here you have a bunch of has-been second-rate losers going to court because they cannot win in the marketplace. Leeches. My father's old Nokia says otherwise.

This thread is being bloated by posts from rabid Apple fanboys. HTC has smartphones waaaay before Apple even sell smartphones. :rolleyes:

[adztaylor]

This is great news, a company like HTC who brought some of the first smartphones to the masses are going to destroy the patent trolls Apple. HTC phones have always been superior to the toys apple make.

People in this thread really need to stop posting and actually read what the term "patent troll" means. Maybe when you're a bit more educated you can come back and post more sense? HTC and Apple are NOT patent trolls.

[mutantteenager]

I'm surprised I haven't heard a comparision between this and Coke Vs Pepsi. They are technically both cola drinks, and one 'came first'.

Now both are rival products, and neither shirks from digging the other one, but they compete for customers in the same space.

Whilst it's important to protect IP, unless there is a distinct case to argue, companies should just compete in the market and let the consumer decide.

Apple have consistently 'innovated' off the backs of others. I would liken them to Sony when they refined the radio. They in no way invented it, but changed that product in a fundamental way which then shaped the market.

I agree that HTC are probably acting in a defensive manner. Neither party is to be applauded though. It just means we'll get our products later and more restricted.

[divinox]

The multiple "Go HTC" claims are bugging me.

The bully analogy is ridiculous. Try saying that when everybody is copying answers from your test, and when you try to complain to the teacher, the teacher says "Now now nobody likes a tattletale."

Say you're an artist. You drop an album with a bunch of killer hooks. Like Queen's "Under Pressure" caliber stuff. You're successful and make money.

People start releasing albums with songs that copy elements of your songs. Lyrics, melodies, "ting ting ting t-t-ting ting. TING TING ting ting t-t-ting ting. It's a totally different song" kinda stuff, worse really, because they're actually staying in the same genre as you, not only copying you but watering down the things that make you distinctive.

Would anybody have your back? Or would people be saying "hey, competition is good, you need to play nice and share." Not exactly the fundamentals of capitalism there.

Seriously, this whole thing about claiming apple is a bad sport is tantamount to communism. Like Hitler. Godwin's law invoked, can the discussion be over yet? Kthanks.

----------



Clearly Apple isn't worried about the new 7" tab since the first one was such a smash hit. It's a matter of defending your patents/trademarks; if you're not diligent in defending them at every turn, you lose your right to defend them at all.

Apple clearly has no problems innovating. but if they didn't defend their patents/trademarks, the plagiarism would only get worse.

everybody else seems to have trouble innovating, so if Apple can enforce their patents and keep the industry on their toes, that's when we will see more innovation. The longer the competitors are allowed to copy, the less true innovation we will see.

but by all means. keep on saying that "competition is good" and that "apple is stifling innovation"

If that was true, Apple wouldnt have to bother - as they clearly are not defending them at every but, but rather in very specific ones.

BTW, do you consider all gaming consoles to be copies? Or at least in every generation? If not, why is that a different case?

----------

Going by this analogy, none of the OS (including Mac OSX) would have had a UI (mouse pointer based). Clearly all of them were "inspired" by Xerox.

Command-line smartphones, yay!

[MonkeySee....]

HTC CEO.....

http://media.rhizome.org/blog/3637/01.jpg

[KnightWRX]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Nexus S Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

In a surprising twist Google got criticized by many for their apparent inaction defending Android OEM's or Android as a whole on the past.

Fast forward to this defensive move to help and protect HTC and now Google are "pansies" for not attacking Apple directly. I think that this move gives more credence to the fact that Google are unwilling to use patents offensively. Call it proxy fighting as much said you like but Apple induced this proxy fight by going for HTC from the start.

Apple could step up and take this directly to Google but for some reason hasn't. Are Apple also "pansies" for not doing so?

Chaz, you know that with some people here, no matter what Google does it will be bad and no matter what Apple does it will be good. That's what we get now that Steve declared "Google" the "ennemy". Remember back when Google was cool and loved because Eric was on board with Apple and the iPhone had these great Google apps to help launch it ? (Maps, Youtube, etc...).

Don't let it get to you.

Sigh...go back and read again. I said by his definition.

Yes, by definition, IP only firms are what we refer to as patent trolls. They bring nothing to the table but litigation and live off licensing fees and court damages. Anyone claiming either HTC or Apple as being trolls are wrong (not saying you don't know this).

HTC and Apple both live off their great products, be it hardware or software (HTC makes the good HTC Sense UI for Android and for Windows Mobile back in the days). Neither are trolls, both are "defending their IP" here. HTC just needed a few more bullets to help defend their stuff from Apple's onslaught.

Taking sides in all of this is quite ridiculous. These big corporations don't care what side you're on. In the end, this just ends up driving prices up in the market, no matter who sues and who gets sued and it harms us all.

[divinox]

So Google is going to fight this war by proxy eh? Pansies.

If it was up to Google there wouldnt be any law suits to begin with. As such, the pansies here, if any, is Apple. After all, they are the ones targetting the proxies rather than the core.

perhaps you should write an email to Cook, demanding that he attacks Google! CH-AAararaRgh!

----------

And it's really clear Xerox had no idea what they had, their GUI's are still horrendous.

The researchers new perfectly well what they had though. And, even so, that doesn't change anything. Bottomline is his point stands. Further, one could argue that Apple do not know what they have either, and that their GUI are horrendous too compared with say, Samsung.

...personally, i wouldnt call it horrendous though i do find it bleak in comparison with its competition.

[divinox]

You know what? All of you who are lambasting Apple can go suck it. Apple invented the iPhone, the app store (not just any "app store"), and the entire ecosystem that drives the iPhone and iPad. And that's an open invitation to everyone in the market to copy Apple and to feel entitled to "compete" by copying the leader?

HTC, Samsung, etc. do not have the right to copy the iPhone, how it looks, how it feels, and how it behaves. Apple has every right to protect their invention - which includes not just iOS and related products, but perhaps the entire market segment that wouldn't exist if it weren't for Apple. Competition is healthy when you bring something new to the table, not crank out iterations of what has already been done (and on someone else's dime).

I hope Apple sues them all into the ground, wins, and forces all of these thieves to stop making iPhone-like phones.

As clarified in the thread regarding the inclusion of a Win Store in W8, Apple did not - by any standards - invent the app store, or any app store for that matter. Further, by definition, they did not invent any ecosystem. They did, however, also much thanks to the jailbreaking seen, through orchestration manage to facilitate a great ecosystem (which, per se, has nothing to do with innovation or invention).

Additionally, the market segment (even though i am not sure what you are talking about here, really) were in every way existing prior to the iphone. One could argue that Apple expanded said segment though, and in turn helped popularize it. (Once again, in no way related to inventing anything).

Finally, iteration is the mother of all knowledge. 99.999% of things stand on the shoulders of others, Jobs, Apple and the iDevices being no different.

You, sir, need to educate yourself - really.

----------

To the idiots that are calling Apple "big brother" because they "control" what software you install on iOS: you're stupid.

There's this thing called HTML5. It's an open standard that is pushed by many companies, including your almighty open Google.

Then there's this thing on iOS called web apps. It lets you write apps purely in HTML5 for iOS, and you distribute it through you know, the web. The wide open web. There is nothing forcing you to use the app store. See Amazon's Cloud Reader web app and PlayBoy's web app.

Web Apps work exactly like native iOS apps. They don't run inside the web browser they run as their own process.

There are even "Web App" stores that are themselves, web apps.

Apple also embraces and pushes all of the latest HTML5 developments. See: webkit.

And now, for God sake, stop calling Apple closed. Thanks.

P.S. jailbreakme.com

1) Yes, HTML5 will do us all lots of good, it is however not even remotely close to being mature. (Even so, i do not understand why so many companies are retarded enough to build proprietary applications where they really have nothing to gain from it).

2) Yes, Apple has so far worked in favour of HTML5. Only time will tell if they change that position though, as HTML5 (like Flash) is a serious threat when it comes to maintaining platform control (which Apple is quite famous for exerting).

----------

[Popeye206]

Heck with this!!!! This is just lawyers having fun.

Come on... I want to see press invites go out for the iPhone 5 press event! :D

[adztaylor]

Chaz, you know that with some people here, no matter what Google does it will be bad and no matter what Apple does it will be good. That's what we get now that Steve declared "Google" the "ennemy". Remember back when Google was cool and loved because Eric was on board with Apple and the iPhone had these great Google apps to help launch it ? (Maps, Youtube, etc...).

Don't let it get to you.



Yes, by definition, IP only firms are what we refer to as patent trolls. They bring nothing to the table but litigation and live off licensing fees and court damages.

HTC and Apple both live off their great products, be it hardware or software (HTC makes the good HTC Sense UI for Android and for Windows Mobile back in the days). Neither are trolls, both are "defending their IP" here. HTC just needed a few more bullets to help defend their stuff from Apple's onslaught.

Taking sides in all of this is quite ridiculous. These big corporations don't care what side you're on. In the end, this just ends up driving prices up in the market, no matter who sues and who gets sued and it harms us all.

Voice of reason in a thread full of madness +1.

[intelliot]

"ammunition"? You know the format of every Wikipedia article about a specific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_ii) War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present))?

Someone ought to create one for this.


Tech Patent War I
Date ??? - present (??? days)
Status Conflict ongoing

Belligerents

Android Platform
Google
HTC
...

iOS Platform
Apple
...

Commanders and leaders

Android leaders
Sergey Brin (Google)
Peter Chou (HTC)
...

iOS leaders
Steve Jobs
Tim Cook
Scott Forstall
Philip W. Schiller
Albert Gore Jr.

Strength

Google: ??? patents
Motorola Mobility: ??? patents
HTC: ??? patents

Apple: ??? patents
...

Casualties and losses
...

[pubwvj]

This patent stuff is stupidity. All of them are patenting things they have no right getting a patent office. They're out of control. The patent office is filled with idiots approving these patents. None of this should be patentable.

Suggestion: move this distraction, this non-news, to a separate tab and keep it off the front page.

[Lennholm]

If those influences are patented, then yes, yes they should. They didn't do the hard work to think things out, they just went and copied. Granted android has lots of interesting features, widgets being one of them... and yes I agree choice is good, but patents unprotected are patents lost. Its the same with copyright...

They didn't do the hard work!? These companies spent decades and billions developing the entire cell infrastructure and technology, then comes Apple and just jumps on and starts using this infrastructure. And you're wrong, you don't have to actively defend patents to keep them. However, they can be ruled invalid in a court

Why Didn’t Google Sue Apple Directly? ★


Why don't Apple sue Google directly? It's obvious all these lawsuits are just proxies in the war against Android

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A5313e Safari/7534.48.3)

Apple is the company that INVENTED the smart phone, and here you have a bunch of has-been second-rate losers going to court because they cannot win in the marketplace. Leeches.

Apple didn't invent the smart phone, there were plenty of smart phones before the iPhone, that market segment was significant since atleast the early 2000's. Not to mention that the first gen iPhone doesn't meet the criteria for a smart phone at all.

To the idiots that are calling Apple "big brother" because they "control" what software you install on iOS: you're stupid.

There's this thing called HTML5. It's an open standard that is pushed by many companies, including your almighty open Google.

Then there's this thing on iOS called web apps. It lets you write apps purely in HTML5 for iOS, and you distribute it through you know, the web. The wide open web. There is nothing forcing you to use the app store. See Amazon's Cloud Reader web app and PlayBoy's web app.

Web Apps work exactly like native iOS apps. They don't run inside the web browser they run as their own process.

There are even "Web App" stores that are themselves, web apps.

Apple also embraces and pushes all of the latest HTML5 developments. See: webkit.

And now, for God sake, stop calling Apple closed. Thanks.

P.S. jailbreakme.com

Yes, Apple is pushing HTML5 by jumping the gun and using their own technologies that will have to be licensed from them and claiming it is the new standard even though no such agreements in the standards commitee exist. Apple is exactly like MS, they are only interested in standards if it's their own standards.

[krischik]

[SIZE=1]If Apple wouldn't sue anyone over iPhone then for sure other competitors would certainly do. Actually they would do everything to wipe iPhone from the face of the earth.

No. Software Patents had been a cold war where everybody was stocking up a Munition but no one was pulling the trigger. Everybody involved knew: Shoot first, die second.

Everybody but one. One company was stupid enough to do that first shoot.

[KnightWRX]

Everybody but one. One company was stupid enough to do that first shoot.

And at this point, I don't think anyone really remembers who fired that first shot exactly. If you care to retrace the entire timeline and provide us with a definitive answer though, knock yourself out.

[bushido]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A5313e Safari/7534.48.3)

Apple is the company that INVENTED the smart phone, and here you have a bunch of has-been second-rate losers going to court because they cannot win in the marketplace. Leeches.

Lol the first iPhone didnt even meet any criterias of a smartphone, there were lots of smartphones before anyone thought of a iPhone. I had 3 Nokia Smartphones for years before that

[KnightWRX]

Lol the first iPhone didnt even meet any criterias of a smartphone, there were lots of smartphones before anyone thought of a iPhone. I had 3 Nokia Smartphones for years before that

Heck, some of them can even be said to have inspired Apple with the form factor (full frontal screen, touch UI, grid of icons) (see attachment).

Yes, iPhone form factor phones years before there even was an iPhone! Guys : don't let the iPhone crowd get to you. These are the people Apple brought into the smartphone arena. They weren't following handsets and devices before Apple made one, you can't expect them to know about things like the Sony Ericsson P800 (or P series in General) or the Palm Treos, or the fact that WinCE/Windows Mobile was not just released last year as Windows Phone 7.

[apolloa]

Chaz, you know that with some people here, no matter what Google does it will be bad and no matter what Apple does it will be good. That's what we get now that Steve declared "Google" the "ennemy". Remember back when Google was cool and loved because Eric was on board with Apple and the iPhone had these great Google apps to help launch it ? (Maps, Youtube, etc...).

Don't let it get to you.



Yes, by definition, IP only firms are what we refer to as patent trolls. They bring nothing to the table but litigation and live off licensing fees and court damages. Anyone claiming either HTC or Apple as being trolls are wrong (not saying you don't know this).

HTC and Apple both live off their great products, be it hardware or software (HTC makes the good HTC Sense UI for Android and for Windows Mobile back in the days). Neither are trolls, both are "defending their IP" here. HTC just needed a few more bullets to help defend their stuff from Apple's onslaught.

Taking sides in all of this is quite ridiculous. These big corporations don't care what side you're on. In the end, this just ends up driving prices up in the market, no matter who sues and who gets sued and it harms us all.

A very smart post mate :), and I agree. With regards to 'patent trolls' (Seriously, was that term not invented on web forums anyway?) I don't consider Apple or HTC etc to be tim.

I class a patent troll as some small company or individual who has brought some patent or acquired it and then try's to sue a big company for pure money and no other reason. We have read plenty about this over the last year.

HTC etc are too big to need to do that as they hardly need more money.
Anyway, seeing as Apple have now filed a case to sue Samsung in Japan, this whole topic is just going to get worst. But at least HTC are going to give Apple a taste of it's own medicine, I can't actually recall Samsung, Nokia, LG, HTC suing each other before, yet Apple is having a good go at them all, well LG were going to sue Apple for ripping off it's designs (oh look how it turns)....

http://news.softpedia.com/news/LG-To-Sue-Apple-Over-The-iPhone-As-Well-45511.shtml

And has everyone forgotten that Cisco sued Apple as they owned the iPhone mark?

http://news.cnet.com/Cisco-sues-Apple-over-use-of-iPhone-trademark/2100-1047_3-6149285.html

They even dared to suggest Apple using underhanded methods such as front companies to gain ownership of the trademark, oh but Apple would never do that, gives credence to the story they manipulated images of competitors products to support court cases doesn't it?....

In fact the more you look into it, the more you realise just how much of a bully Apple really has become, steam rolling everyone else and manipulating markets so you only have one choice, their's!

[MattInOz]

If it was up to Google there wouldnt be any law suits to begin with. As such, the pansies here, if any, is Apple. After all, they are the ones targetting the proxies rather than the core.

perhaps you should write an email to Cook, demanding that he attacks Google! CH-AAararaRgh!

----------



The researchers new perfectly well what they had though. And, even so, that doesn't change anything. Bottomline is his point stands. Further, one could argue that Apple do not know what they have either, and that their GUI are horrendous too compared with say, Samsung.

...personally, i wouldnt call it horrendous though i do find it bleak in comparison with its competition.

I'm sure xerox parc researches knew full well what they had. It seems pretty clear they also knew full well thier management didn't. To the point they go shopping around to find interested parties without the management fully understand what was really being sold.

Btw. HTC is hardly a proxie they have had thier own interface systems overlaid on top various OS over the years. If the aledged infringement is in that overlay or is blurry as to where it get implemented then it would seem to me they really should be the first port of call in Apple protecting thier IP.

Assuming Apples IP doesn't fail validity during proceeding but that's Apples gamble.

[spazzcat]

Chaz, you know that with some people here, no matter what Google does it will be bad and no matter what Apple does it will be good. That's what we get now that Steve declared "Google" the "ennemy". Remember back when Google was cool and loved because Eric was on board with Apple and the iPhone had these great Google apps to help launch it ? (Maps, Youtube, etc...).

....

And if you go to other sites you see the same thing, expect you change Apple for Google and Google for Apple in your comment. This after all is an Apple fan site, so I would be suprised if all you saw was Apple bad mouthing here...

Also, if you look at what Google's phone look like before the CEO was on the board of Apple you can kind get why Apple has an ax to grind with Google. Before the iPhone Google was copying the Blackberry.

[KnightWRX]

Also, if you look at what Google's phone look like before the CEO was on the board of Apple you can kind get why Apple has an ax to grind with Google. Before the iPhone Google was copying the Blackberry.

First, Google never made a phone. They bought a mobile OS and made a mobile OS to give to OEMs.

And if we look what the "Google" Phone looked like before the "iPhone", well, it still looks the same today, depending on the model. Google doesn't really dictate form factors to OEMs. Heck, HTC even makes one of these Blackberry type Android handsets :

http://www.technobloggers.com/wp-content/gallery/techno-bloggers/htc-chacha.jpg

Some of you really need to get it out of your head that Android and iPhone have anything to do with each other. One is software, the other is hardware. Android is hardware agnostic. It can be made to work on a variety of form factors, of which 1 is the "iPhone" form factor (I'd dare say more the SE P series form factor).

If you want to claim Android is copying iOS, let's hear that. If you want to say that Apple should have an exclusive over the Big frontal screen form factor, let's hear that. But let's stop pretending Android is a full touch screen phone. It's not. It's a mobile operating system. Just like Photoshop is an image manipulation program and has nothing to do with Logitech mice.

[spazzcat]

Would love to hear your reasoning on this - how is HTC the patent troll? Apple may have to sue to stay ahead, but it can't fight everyone and win, and that is the direction this is headed.

Last time I checked Apple was still making more money then another phone maker. Which is the goal of any business. So I would say they are ahead and ahead by a lot. Apple is not trying to complete with the free phone or the cheap phone. What they don't want is their IP being used in the cheap or free phones. It will be up to the courts to validate Apple's IP claims. There are a lot of ways this could go, Apple and HTC both could win and there would be a force compromise or one of them will lose.

[KnightWRX]

Apple is not trying to complete with the free phone or the cheap phone. What they don't want is their IP being used in the cheap or free phones.

Good thing then that HTC makes expensive phones that are more feature filled and technologically advanced than Apple ;)

[kdarling]

Also, if you look at what Google's phone look like before the CEO was on the board of Apple you can kind get why Apple has an ax to grind with Google. Before the iPhone Google was copying the Blackberry.

That's not the reason Jobs was upset.

Apple has never suggested that Google stole anything while Schmidt was on the Apple board. Never. They've only ever claimed copying afterwards.

If anything, the reason why Apple asked Google on board in the middle of iPhone development was to see what Android was up to, and also to get Google cooperation for Maps, YouTube, Search, all of which were important parts of the initial iPhone success.

No, Jobs' main beef was that he thought Apple had a patent on multitouch itself and that Google violated it. He was, of course, misinformed.

[DaveN]

The whole Google copying the iPhone thing, give it away, then at first let the manufactures out to dry, thing sounds pretty evil to me. I hope Google at least gets nailed to the wall for ripping off Java without a license.

[spazzcat]

Good thing then that HTC makes expensive phones that are more feature filled and technologically advanced than Apple ;)

And yet Apple makes more money on their phone sales....

[Mad-B-One]

xerox parc. plain and simple. if you ever ask yourself, who invented this? but dont know. say xerox parc. more often than not, you will be right.

(at least more right than in naming something that came after it)

True that, they were before but they didn't patent anything and only sold 25000 units. I was actually just responding to the person saying Apple copied it from Windows and wanted to tell that it was the other way round. Much of the innovation though came from Apple and if you look at the first GUI from Apple, you see the remarkable resemblance even in Windows 7 because their principles were the same there are today. If Apple would have produced this for the IBM compatible computers as well, Microsoft would have never had a chance.

[KnightWRX]

And yet Apple makes more money on their phone sales....

So HTC rips you off less ? ;)

[spazzcat]

So HTC rips you off less ? ;)

I have never once felt ripped off by buying Apple. And Apple is making more off of a phone that is 18 months old. The only way that can happen is if they are still selling a lot of phones...

I should also add that the iPhone is the first smartphone I truly use all the time. I had smartphones and PDAs before the iPhone and they always were a waste of money...

[KnightWRX]

The whole Google copying the iPhone thing, give it away, then at first let the manufactures out to dry, thing sounds pretty evil to me.

What did Google copy off the iPhone, gave away ? And when did Google let the manufacturers out to dry ?

Seems to me they are helping HTC here. And it seems to me you don't quite understand what Google makes and "gives" away if you think it's an iPhone copy.

I hope Google at least gets nailed to the wall for ripping off Java without a license.

What part of Java did Google rip off without a license ?

I think you should read up on the Oracle case. That one is going very badly for Oracle.

I have never once felt ripped off by buying Apple. And Apple is making more off of a phone that is 18 months old. The only way that can happen is if they are still selling a lot of phones...

Or sells phone at a higher profit margin, which means they pocket more money per device. IE : make you pay more in pure profit to them. ;)

I'm still waiting to see what you thought of the HTC ChaCha.

[shompa]

2 more Android vendors buys protection from MSTF:
http://allthingsd.com/20110908/microsoft-adds-viewsonic-acer-to-its-do-not-sue-list/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker

Now 8 Android vendors pays MSFT protection.

I think its great that Google finally starts to help its vendors.
They do it in a fun way: Google buys different patents and gives to HTC.

Why can't Google invent something them self?

[DeathChill]

No, Jobs' main beef was that he thought Apple had a patent on multitouch itself and that Google violated it. He was, of course, misinformed.
Have any sources on this or did you just make it up?

KnightWRX, I don't understand why you keep trotting out current Android phones that resemble a Blackberry. That is irrelevant to what people are talking about. Google was developing Android to run on hardware closer to the Blackberry than the iPhone but switched gears to devices similar to the iPhone. Just look at the phones that Google considers developer phones: Nexus One and the Nexus S. Those look nothing like a Blackberry and to suggest Google isn't specifically developing with that device type is silly. Of course Android can run on tons of hardware but to pretend that they aren't doing so with the iPhone style platform at the forefront is craziness.

[voonyx]

Again for the people just tuning in : Android is an operating system, a piece of software. iPhone is a mobile handset, a piece of hardware.

Android is not a copy of the iPhone. That would be like saying Photoshop is a copy of a Logitech mouse.

What's the point of this? Isn't it obvious he's talking about the software and not comparing a phone to iOS? :rolleyes:

[spazzcat]

...
Or sells phone at a higher profit margin, which means they pocket more money per device. IE : make you pay more in pure profit to them. ;)

I'm still waiting to see what you thought of the HTC ChaCha.

Profit margin, you can only get a higher one on something people want to buy. The HTC ChaCha phone looks like a blackberry what is there to say? Not sure how that didn't prove my point. OK, so Google didn't copy Apple, everyone else rushed to copy Apple after the iPhone. And before the iPhone everyone was rushing to copy Blackberry. And before they they were copying the Razr. Now, what if HTC and others are forced to start coming up with their own ideas, and forced to stop copying, that would truely be a win for everyone...

[voonyx]

I'll try to remember that next time I read a story about apple employees fourfold cops showing up to a private citizens home accusing them of stealing a phone based on nothing more than the gps coordinates from a phone.

Just make sure you also remember that the private citizen said "Come on in guys"...people here so silly its laughable.

I bet people like you think Apple showed up in black suits and sunglasses, ransacked the guys house and left him in the corner rocking back and forth saying "why?!!! why!!!??" :rolleyes:

[apolloa]

Last time I checked Apple was still making more money then another phone maker. Which is the goal of any business. So I would say they are ahead and ahead by a lot. Apple is not trying to complete with the free phone or the cheap phone. What they don't want is their IP being used in the cheap or free phones. It will be up to the courts to validate Apple's IP claims. There are a lot of ways this could go, Apple and HTC both could win and there would be a force compromise or one of them will lose.

Hmm, well LG thought Apple ripped them off, and rightly so too..

http://news.softpedia.com/news/LG-To-Sue-Apple-Over-The-iPhone-As-Well-45511.shtml

A cheap free phone with the same look OS as the iPhone..

[KnightWRX]

What's the point of this? Isn't it obvious he's talking about the software and not comparing a phone to iOS? :rolleyes:

If he is, I'd like to know what part of Android he feels is copied from iOS.

KnightWRX, I don't understand why you keep trotting out current Android phones that resemble a Blackberry. That is irrelevant to what people are talking about. Google was developing Android to run on hardware closer to the Blackberry than the iPhone but switched gears to devices similar to the iPhone.

I think you just contradicted yourself here and proven why my pointing out things like the Motorola Charm and HTC ChaCha is quite relevant.

Google never switched gears. They have been making a mobile Operating System all this time. The fact is, Android still runs on those "Blackberry" phones. Android is just a piece of software that is made to run on a variety of hardware form factors.

A factoid a lot of people here tend to ignore in their haste to join the "copying" bandwagon.

The HTC ChaCha phone looks like a blackberry what is there to say? Not sure how that didn't prove my point. OK, so Google didn't copy Apple, everyone else rushed to copy Apple after the iPhone.

What about my earlier SE P800 shot then ? Grid of icons, full screen on the front, touch based input (resistive screen with stylus, we're talking about 2002 here).

The iPhone was not invented in a vaccuum, people need to realise this if we're ever to have meaningful conversations on here.

Google buys different patents and gives to HTC.

Why can't Google invent something them self?

Tell me you'd be as critical of Apple buying patents. Please.

[spazzcat]

If he is, I'd like to know what part of Android he feels is copied from iOS.

Andriod has always felt like a bad copy of iOS.

[Oletros]

The HTC ChaCha phone looks like a blackberry what is there to say? Not sure how that didn't prove my point. OK, so Google didn't copy Apple, everyone else rushed to copy Apple after the iPhone. And before the iPhone everyone was rushing to copy Blackberry. And before they they were copying the Razr. Now, what if HTC and others are forced to start coming up with their own ideas, and forced to stop copying, that would truely be a win for everyone...

If you say HTC has been copying and didn't had any idea you're showing that you don't know nothing about HTC smartphones, from the present and from before the iPhone.

But yes, is a fact that everybody has copied the iPhone, including LG with their Prada

[apolloa]

But yes, is a fact that everybody has copied the iPhone, including LG with their Prada

Was that sarcasm?

[KnightWRX]

Andriod has always felt like a bad copy of iOS.

Which parts ? The widgets ? The multi-tasking ? The notifications ? The "virtual desktops" ? The dialer ?

Give us a few choice quips here. You're just repeating the bandwagon's mantra. What do you feel Android copied from iOS ?

[Oletros]

Andriod has always felt like a bad copy of iOS.


Exactly why and what parts?

----------

Was that sarcasm?

Yap

[spazzcat]

If he is, I'd like to know what part of Android he feels is copied from iOS.



I think you just contradicted yourself here and proven why my pointing out things like the Motorola Charm and HTC ChaCha is quite relevant.

Google never switched gears. They have been making a mobile Operating System all this time. The fact is, Android still runs on those "Blackberry" phones. Android is just a piece of software that is made to run on a variety of hardware form factors.

A factoid a lot of people here tend to ignore in their haste to join the "copying" bandwagon.



What about my earlier SE P800 shot then ? Grid of icons, full screen on the front, touch based input (resistive screen with stylus, we're talking about 2002 here).

The iPhone was not invented in a vaccuum, people need to realise this if we're ever to have meaningful conversations on here.



Tell me you'd be as critical of Apple buying patents. Please.

Reistive screen with stylus is not a samething as a multi-touch screen not even close. And I know that Apple bought the patents for multi-touch. And I have never once said others are not allowed to sue over their IP. That is the whole point of having IP. However, Apple does not play around, they patent everything they do and will sue you. If Apple copies you and you don't sue, you just lost your IP.

[D4F]

Which parts ? The widgets ? The multi-tasking ? The notifications ? The "virtual desktops" ? The dialer ?

Give us a few choice quips here. You're just repeating the bandwagon's mantra. What do you feel Android copied from iOS ?

I wonder why you even try to talk with concrete blocks...

[DeathChill]

Sorry for not quoting but I'm on my phone at work.

I don't understand your thought process KnightWRX. Being able to run on a variety of hardware platforms does not mean that Google isn't developing it with a certain device style in mind (Nexus One & Nexus S). Google provides hardware agnostic code but it is up to the companies to get it working on their specific device platform. Just like Google built Honeycomb using the Xoom as their reference platform they do the same with the Nexus devices.

That information that leaked yesterday even pointed out that companies that followed Google's desired platform specs got earlier access to Android. Sure sounds like they're developing with an idea in mind on the hardware they wish to see.

[Oletros]

Sorry for not quoting but I'm on my phone at work.

I don't understand your thought process KnightWRX. Being able to run on a variety of hardware platforms does not mean that Google isn't developing it with a certain device style in mind (Nexus One & Nexus S). Google provides hardware agnostic code but it is up to the companies to get it working on their specific device platform. Just like Google built Honeycomb using the Xoom as their reference platform they do the same with the Nexus devices.

That information that leaked yesterday even pointed out that companies that followed Google's desired platform specs got earlier access to Android. Sure sounds like they're developing with an idea in mind on the hardware they wish to see.

Yap, because they copied the iPhone the first developer device was the G1 which even didn't had a virtual keyboard and was a physical keyboard.

[KnightWRX]

Reistive screen with stylus is not a samething as a multi-touch screen not even close.

Neither is wool the same as linen, yet both can be used to make clothing. The fact is, the "iPhone" form factor is not even original to the iPhone. It existed prior. Are you saying the P Series or Treo had nothing to do with Apple's choice of a form factor for the iPhone ?

And I know that Apple bought the patents for multi-touch.

When did they buy this non-existant set of patents ? There is no broad patent over multi-touch and Apple's acquisition of Fingerworks has nothing to do with touch screens.

And I have never once said others are not allowed to sue over their IP. That is the whole point of having IP. However, Apple does not play around, they patent everything they do and will sue you.

Does not answer my question about what you think Android copied from iOS.

If Apple copies you and you don't sue, you just lost your IP.

Only if you're referring to trademarks. Patents are not lost for not being enforced.

----------

I don't understand your thought process KnightWRX.

...

Google provides hardware agnostic code but it is up to the companies to get it working on their specific device platform.

Seems you get my thought process quite well to me.

[spazzcat]

Which parts ? The widgets ? The multi-tasking ? The notifications ? The "virtual desktops" ? The dialer ?

Give us a few choice quips here. You're just repeating the bandwagon's mantra. What do you feel Android copied from iOS ?

Most of the UI is a bad copy. And everything you listed where is the invitation? Multi-tasking comes right from a desktop OS and can be hugh battery drain. I see it all the time when family members phones died way too soon in the day. Apple looked at a phone a realized you don't need every app running like it's the active app. They broke apps down in to services and you quickly see only parts of some apps need to run all the time others can be paused. Notifications who did them first? I don't remember ever having apps on my phone communicate with me without them running, before Apple did. Who did them way the Goggle does them now first, Andriod or WebOS? Widgets another thing that came from a desktop OS nothing new. Virtual Desktop, sounds like spaces in OS X?

[KnightWRX]

Most of the UI is a bad copy.

Which parts ? The Application launcher ? The customizable desktops with widgets ? The notification center ? The settings UI ? The phone dialer ? The task manager ?

Please. Some meat.

And everything you listed where is the invitation? Multi-tasking comes right from a desktop OS and can be hugh battery drain. I see it all the time when family members phones died way too soon in the day.

Invitation ?

Multi-tasking on Android is no more a battery drain than Multi-tasking on iOS. In fact, my iPhone has severe battery problems if I only leave Skype open.

Apple looked at a phone a realized you don't need every app running like it's the active app.

Yep, that's why I like to be able to choose which app that is. Unfortunately, not something Apple's poor implementation of a task manager lets me do. It's one of my beefs with iOS.

You still have no provided one example of copying aside from a vague "the UI".

[Oletros]

Apple looked at a phone a realized you don't need every app running like it's the active app. They broke apps down in to services and you quickly see only parts of some apps need to run all the time others can be paused.


If you knew something about Android you would knew that multitasking on Android works exactly like this


Notifications who did them first? I don't remember ever having apps on my phone communicate with me without them running, before Apple did. Who did them way the Goggle does them now first, Andriod or WebOS?


Android did them first.

And if you diddn't remember having apps withouth them running bedore Apple did anly shows that you don't know it was done before, not that none did it before.

So, you haven't said nothing about what Android copied from iOS, you only has shown that you must inform better.

[spazzcat]

If you knew something about Android you would knew that multitasking on Android works exactly like this




Android did them first.

And if you diddn't remember having apps withouth them running bedore Apple did anly shows that you don't know it was done before, not that none did it before.

So, you haven't said nothing about what Android copied from iOS, you only has shown that you must inform better.

Notications were a work around until Apple could build good model for muti-tasking. And they took off.

[DeathChill]

You can think however you wish, but you clearly edited out all the strong points I made. Being hardware agnostic does not mean that Google isn't developing for a certain platform, it simply means it does not require exact specific hardware. Hence why Android phones come with a variety of CPU's & GPU's.

What do you say about the fact that Google used the Xoom and uses the Nexus devices as reference platforms for building Android and as developer devices?

[Oletros]

Notications were a work around until Apple could build good model for muti-tasking. And they took off.

Yes, I know that notifications were a workaraund for Apple, but what has to do with Android notifications?

[Mattie Num Nums]

Which parts ? The Application launcher ? The customizable desktops with widgets ? The notification center ? The settings UI ? The phone dialer ? The task manager ?

Please. Some meat.


Funny thing is, iOS has copied some of that from Android. Everyone looks at each other for inspiration. Its called competition. Look at Lexus when they released the IS300 with Clear Tail lights. Before you know it everyone had clear tail lights. Look at Wolfgang Puck when he made his "California" style Pizza's. Now gourmet pizza's are all over the place. This is business and the only people who seem to not want to play the business is Apple. They would rather crush and sweep all the competition up. Isn't that everyone here deplores Microsoft for doing decades ago.

[KnightWRX]

You can think however you wish, but you clearly edited out all the strong points I made. Being hardware agnostic does not mean that Google isn't developing for a certain platform, it simply means it does not require exact specific hardware. Hence why Android phones come with a variety of CPU's & GPU's.

Nope, it means like you said, Google is developing for a multitude of platforms. Sure, that includes specific platforms, but that's what a whole is.

Are you looking at just the parts ? That would be like saying Apple copied Wacom because they made OS X able to interact with tablets for input. Hum.. no, that's not how it works. OS X provides a driver model where different input devices can plug in and work. Same with Android. It provides ways to connect to different input devices, one of which is multi-touch screens.

What do you say about the fact that Google used the Xoom and uses the Nexus devices as reference platforms for building Android and as developer devices?

What is there to say ? Why not use the most trendy form factor for those ? OEMs want to make full touch screen phones, this is where the market is at these days (thanks to the rise of the capacitative touch screen and pioneers like the Treo, the P800 and, yes, the iPhone).

Anyway, what does the Xoom have to do with this, you're not suggesting that Apple invented the tablet form factor I hope...

----------

Notications were a work around until Apple could build good model for muti-tasking. And they took off.

Uh ? What do notifications have to do with multi-tasking of user space applications ?

[apolloa]

Yap

Cool, I agree then, everyone has ripped Apple off..

Notifications who did them first? I don't remember ever having apps on my phone communicate with me without them running, before Apple did.

Erm?? I don't understand this comment? Because just about every phone since SMS and voicemail etc has been able to handle notifications just fine with no app running? It beeps when you get a message and you have a notification on your screen? What's Apple done differently then?

[mabaker]

Funny how the Google fanboiis try to justify its duplicitous tactics. Pure gold!

[Celf]

This patent horse has been beaten to death. Perhaps it's a good idea to stop writing about it and concentrate on the fun part of smartphones (Samsung, Apple, HTC, Nokia and others, in random order)...working and playing with them and enjoy innovations. This fight is going to cost a lot of money, one way or the other. It also costs customer acceptance because of the negative news..almost on a daily basis. It also kills innovation. Yes, it kills innovation because both sides claim they are right "and why innovate when i'm right". Innovation resumes after a court order.

Over a year, perhaps two years, we'll see if it's still a competitive market or that competition is history and the only choice we have is the color of the device.

Today was the last day with news about lawsuits and patents on this site !!! ( ;) )

[Mattie Num Nums]

Funny how the Google fanboiis try to justify its duplicitous tactics. Pure gold!

Its funny how the Apple fanboys label anyone who doesn't serve Apple 100% as a _____ fanboy. Its also funny how Apple Fanyboys refuse to acknowledge the multiple pieces of evidence that show products that looked like the iPad and iPhone existed before either were made public.

[Kenrik]

Apple is defending Patents it actually invented... Google/HTC are defending patents they infringed upon by buying patents they did not invent.

Google/HTC are not the ones on the moral high ground here guys...

It's like robbing someones house and then buying it later and saying that it was ok to rob it because it's your house. ???

[KnightWRX]

Apple is defending Patents it actually invented...

Apple purchases as many patents as anyone else.

[Oletros]

Apple is defending Patents it actually invented... Google/HTC are defending patents they infringed upon by buying patents they did not invent.

Fingerworks patents were invented by Apple?

[erzhik]

What? Someone got the balls to counter sue Apple and all of a sudden Apple fanboys are butthurt? Get real, a lawsuit is a lawsuit. Apple sued more people this year than anyone and it's not like they won many of them. All but 1 patent were thrown out from lawsuit against Samsung.

[lilo777]

Apple is defending Patents it actually invented... Google/HTC are defending patents they infringed upon by buying patents they did not invent.

Google/HTC are not the ones on the moral high ground here guys...

It's like robbing someones house and then buying it later and saying that it was ok to rob it because it's your house. ???

Apple is a midget in a patent World with tons of companies having way more patents than Apple (which is not surprising given the fact that Apple is very skimpy on R&D budget). As a result, they actually have very few things to defend. I am not sure them suing everybody around was such a good idea.

[Mattie Num Nums]

Apple is a midget in a patent World with tons of companies having way more patents than Apple (which is not surprising given the fact that Apple is very skimpy on R&D budget). As a result, they actually have very few things to defend. I am not sure them suing everybody around was such a good idea.

Apple Invented God... duh.

[KnightWRX]

All but 1 patent were thrown out from lawsuit against Samsung in the Netherlands.

Fixed that there for you. Apple is involved in more than 1 lawsuit against Samsung all over the world.

We should get the Germany ruling about the preliminary hearing tomorrow.

[840quadra]

Android did them first.

And if you diddn't remember having apps withouth them running bedore Apple did anly shows that you don't know it was done before, not that none did it before.

So, you haven't said nothing about what Android copied from iOS, you only has shown that you must inform better.

Actually I would argue that 3rd party devs using Un-official means (Cydia) predate even Android. This isn't a win for iOS, but also not a clear win for Android in this regard.

Android OEMs do get the gold star for having them implemented natively, and out of the box first.

[lilo777]

Fixed that there for you. Apple is involved in more than 1 lawsuit against Samsung all over the world.

We should get the Germany ruling about the preliminary hearing tomorrow.

As I understand, German lawsuit does not include any tech patents (or whatever they are called) thought. It's just about the dress code (look and feel), right? So there is nothing to throw out there.

[KnightWRX]

Actually I would argue that 3rd party devs using Un-official means (Cydia) predate even Android. This isn't a win for iOS, but also not a clear win for Android in this regard.

Android shipped with the notifications on day 1, in November 2008. Considering Cydia had only been available since March 2008, do you have any reference to back this up ?

[BaldiMac]

Fingerworks patents were invented by Apple?

Which Fingerworks patents are you referring to? Apple bought Fingerworks. You are really just arguing semantics.

Get real, a lawsuit is a lawsuit.

Not really. Some have merit. Some are frivoulous. Some are offensive. Some are defensive.

Apple sued more people this year than anyone

Source? It has actually been documented that they are sued more than anyone in the industry.

and it's not like they won many of them.

They haven't lost many (any?) either.

All but 1 patent were thrown out from lawsuit against Samsung.

Actually one patent was thrown out against Samsung in one country. Was there more? The rest were simply not sufficient for a preliminary injunction.

Apple is a midget in a patent World with tons of companies having way more patents than Apple (which is not surprising given the fact that Apple is very skimpy on R&D budget). As a result, they actually have very few things to defend. I am not sure them suing everybody around was such a good idea.

Source? And with patents, it's quality not quantity that matters. (And I'd guess Apple was top 30 or so in mobile related patents.)

[divinox]

True that, they were before but they didn't patent anything and only sold 25000 units. I was actually just responding to the person saying Apple copied it from Windows and wanted to tell that it was the other way round. Much of the innovation though came from Apple and if you look at the first GUI from Apple, you see the remarkable resemblance even in Windows 7 because their principles were the same there are today. If Apple would have produced this for the IBM compatible computers as well, Microsoft would have never had a chance.

No, what you really need to look at is Apple GUI before and after visiting parc. That is were the resemblance stems from after all - regardless of patents and all that sh't. The principle of wimp is a Xerox invention. Wimp is basically the mother of all desktop gui:s to this date.

----------

Have any sources on this or did you just make it up?

KnightWRX, I don't understand why you keep trotting out current Android phones that resemble a Blackberry. That is irrelevant to what people are talking about. Google was developing Android to run on hardware closer to the Blackberry than the iPhone but switched gears to devices similar to the iPhone. Just look at the phones that Google considers developer phones: Nexus One and the Nexus S. Those look nothing like a Blackberry and to suggest Google isn't specifically developing with that device type is silly. Of course Android can run on tons of hardware but to pretend that they aren't doing so with the iPhone style platform at the forefront is craziness.

"They" as in Google, are not. They as in OEM:s, perhaps. The last ones tend to follow market trends, give customers what they want you know? Do you even have a point in there somewhere? As for Google, they couldnt care less what phones that were pushed, all they care for is that they are being used.

[BaldiMac]

No, what you really need to look at is Apple GUI before and after visiting parc. That is were the resemblance stems from after all - regardless of patents and all that sh't. The principle of wimp is a Xerox invention. Wimp is basically the mother of all desktop gui:s to this date.

And Apple added concepts to what they saw at Xerox PARC that are also fundamental to a modern OS as well. Drag and Drop for one. Everything is based on what came before.

"They" as in Google, are not. They as in OEM:s, perhaps. The last ones tend to follow market trends, give customers what they want you know? Do you even have a point in there somewhere? As for Google, they couldnt care less what phones that were pushed, all they care for is that they are being used.

Are you saying that it's just a coincidence that Google delayed launching Android over a year and a half after seeing the iPhone to debut on iPhone like hardware?

[divinox]

Most of the UI is a bad copy. And everything you listed where is the invitation? Multi-tasking comes right from a desktop OS and can be hugh battery drain. I see it all the time when family members phones died way too soon in the day. Apple looked at a phone a realized you don't need every app running like it's the active app. They broke apps down in to services and you quickly see only parts of some apps need to run all the time others can be paused. Notifications who did them first? I don't remember ever having apps on my phone communicate with me without them running, before Apple did. Who did them way the Goggle does them now first, Andriod or WebOS? Widgets another thing that came from a desktop OS nothing new. Virtual Desktop, sounds like spaces in OS X?

Which parts of iOS GUI can not be considered as equally "right from the desktop OS"? Can you make a list, pretty please?

[840quadra]

Android shipped with the notifications on day 1, in November 2008. Considering Cydia had only been available since March 2008, do you have any reference to back this up ?


Intilliscreen May 2008 (this also isn't the initial release)
http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/2008/05/28/intelliscreen-093/

http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/intelliscreen0936.jpg

Same application, later release in June 2008
http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/2008/06/05/intelliscreen-101/

http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/viewlayout101.jpg

At first release it was ugly, and at the time couldn't disable the native notifications, but it gave you a lot of information on the lock screen. Later versions could cost quite a bit of $$ in, but improved the looks by placing it on a much better looking screen.

There are other examples, though searching for old jailbroken iOS software is not one of my true skills in life. I used Grip back in the day (I think 2009), but I am not sure exactly when it came out.

[KnightWRX]

Intilliscreen May 2008 (this also isn't the initial release)
http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/2008/05/28/intelliscreen-093/

Image (http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/intelliscreen0936.jpg)

Same application, later release in June 2008
http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/2008/06/05/intelliscreen-101/

Image (http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/viewlayout101.jpg)

At first release it was ugly, and at the time couldn't disable the native notifications, but it gave you a lot of information on the lock screen. Later versions could cost quite a bit of $$ in, but improved the looks by placing it on a much better looking screen.

There are other examples, though searching for old jailbroken iOS software is not one of my true skills in life. I used Grip back in the day (I think 2009), but I am not sure exactly when it came out.

Both those examples look nothing like Android's notification center which is pretty close to what ended up in iOS 5. I'm not saying it's not possible, though few who have made the claim that Cydia devs came up with what is in Android have been able to provide actual evidence of it.

[divinox]

And Apple added concepts to what they saw at Xerox PARC that are also fundamental to a modern OS as well. Drag and Drop for one. Everything is based on what came before.



Are you saying that it's just a coincidence that Google delayed launching Android over a year and a half after seeing the iPhone to debut on iPhone like hardware?

Of course, so whats up with the Apple-hangup? And why does the word always change from "based on" to "copied" when Apple is involved?

...regarding drag & drop, i'd like to say that its fairly obvious under the desktop paradigm. I mean, its meant to replicate a desk. if i have a folder on my desk, i am - after all - able to move it. Theres not that many ways of moving an object with a mouse after all (and, you can mimic the same action in real life just using your finger; i.e. push down, swipe).

That said, i do not know if anyone at parc thought about it or not. Maybe they did, maybe they did not. Doesnt really matter though, at least not to me. Then again, i dont consider Android to be an iOS copy.


As for coincidence, i do not have sufficient information to say. Regardless, it doesnt really change the fact that Android is a multi-form-factor OS; Android runs on anything from microwaves to cars. Says it all.

[DeathChill]

I just want to point out that I am not saying Android is an iOS rip-off. I have a hard time believing that anyone could possibly feel that Android wasn't changed by what iOS brought to the phone market.

I was mentioning the Xoom because it was Google's reference design while they built Honeycomb and was referred as a developers device, just like the Nexus series. To pretend that Google hasn't chosen a main device platform style (large touchscreen phone rather than small screen with hardware keyboard and navigational buttons) is a bit ridiculous. I'll bet KnightWRX and divinox $1000 that the next Nexus will follow the setup of a large touchscreen being the focus of phone.

I do agree with divinox though: Google is only providing and catering to what is popular (because of the iPhone).
.

[voonyx]

I just want to point out that I am not saying Android is an iOS rip-off. I have a hard time believing that anyone could possibly feel that Android wasn't changed by what iOS brought to the phone market.

I was mentioning the Xoom because it was Google's reference design while they built Honeycomb and was referred as a developers device, just like the Nexus series. To pretend that Google hasn't chosen a main device platform style (large touchscreen phone rather than small screen with hardware keyboard and navigational buttons) is a bit ridiculous. I'll bet KnightWRX and divinox $1000 that the next Nexus will follow the setup of a large touchscreen being the focus of phone.

I do agree with divinox though: Google is only providing and catering to what is popular (because of the iPhone).
.

Nor can I. Seems ridiculously silly doesn't it haha

[Rodimus Prime]

Most of the UI is a bad copy. And everything you listed where is the invitation? Multi-tasking comes right from a desktop OS and can be hugh battery drain. I see it all the time when family members phones died way too soon in the day. Apple looked at a phone a realized you don't need every app running like it's the active app. They broke apps down in to services and you quickly see only parts of some apps need to run all the time others can be paused. Notifications who did them first? I don't remember ever having apps on my phone communicate with me without them running, before Apple did.

I can go snap some pictures of some old dumb phones I have. I also know that blackberry allowed for it to work that way. Apple push system I believe is something from MS and not something they invented. But blackberry did it first and Apple entire crap tacter notifications system was a workaround for the lack of any multitasking. Now it is just to the point of wanna be multitasking.

Who did them way the Goggle does them now first, Andriod or WebOS? Widgets another thing that came from a desktop OS nothing new.

Both went threw different methods but really you are getting off topic.

Virtual Desktop, sounds like spaces in OS X?

Hate to break this to you but Virtual Desktop on Windows came a long time before Spaces in OSX. Spaces was a rip off of Virtual Desktop provided by MS long before hand.

Yes, I know that notifications were a workaraund for Apple, but what has to do with Android notifications?

I think he can not accept the fact that his argument is going no where and complete wrong.

[divinox]

I just want to point out that I am not saying Android is an iOS rip-off. I have a hard time believing that anyone could possibly feel that Android wasn't changed by what iOS brought to the phone market.

I was mentioning the Xoom because it was Google's reference design while they built Honeycomb and was referred as a developers device, just like the Nexus series. To pretend that Google hasn't chosen a main device platform style (large touchscreen phone rather than small screen with hardware keyboard and navigational buttons) is a bit ridiculous. I'll bet KnightWRX and divinox $1000 that the next Nexus will follow the setup of a large touchscreen being the focus of phone.

I do agree with divinox though: Google is only providing and catering to what is popular (because of the iPhone).
.

1) KnightWRX have already responded to the "Xoom/Nexus" issue.
2) A tablet is a whole different device than a phone, and running the exact same GUI makes little sense given the added screen real-estate.
3) I wouldnt bet against, for the same reasons as given by KnightWRX earlier.
4) Not "because of the iphone", but much thanks to the iphone.

----------

Nor can I. Seems ridiculously silly doesn't it haha

Funny thing is that we are the ones laughing when you then, in your next breath, fail to recognize that the same can be said about others influencing Apple.