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thadoggfather
Sep 9, 2011, 10:42 AM
taking a poll:

are you a consumer, a professional, or a prosumer (a hobbyist with professional apps) with your Mac?

correlation is not = causation, I'm just curious what the demographic is.

I think Lion will be fine in a few updates. Until then, I'm more than fine with my SL, and I'd consider myself a prosumer/NERD to the extreme (you can check the 'prosumer' bubble if you feel you are exceedingly more nerdy, knowledgable, and indulgent than the average consumer).



r0k
Sep 9, 2011, 10:51 AM
Lion has one huge bug that I still struggle with. Whenever I use multiple displays (external monitor plus the built in display) on my Macbook, I lose the ability to log in remotely via any of my iPad VNC apps. I can log in but I can't do anything. I hoped this would get fixed in 10.7.1 but alas I'm waiting for 10.7.2 for more reasons than just iCloud.

Lion has a few quirks I "live with" including reverse scrolling which I disabled. But funny enough, with reverse scrolling disabled, when I'm controlling my Mac from my iPad, I wish I'd left reverse scrolling enabled. Another quirk is the inability to "bully in" to share a screen with the current logged in user. I like the ability to log in as me instead but what if I simply want to finish something I started earlier when I was logged in as my wife's account on her machine? I guess I'd have to disconnect and reconnect as her to see her screen. That's a bit inconvenient.

I got pulled away during my post. Overall I like Lion and I'm glad I got it installed on all our Macs. I like the recovery partition. I'm glad I made my own usb stick before the install so I've got 2 ways to recover if I should ever need to. I might have held off putting Lion on our older (1G RAM) machines if I'd known SL would eventually support iCloud but overall I'm happy. Of course I'll be happier as Apple irons out quirks like the VNC thing but I would encourage anyone who can switch to do so.

basher
Sep 9, 2011, 12:35 PM
I'm not sure I get the point of this thread.

mountains
Sep 9, 2011, 12:42 PM
I'm not sure I get the point of this thread.

"Everyone who likes Lion is a casual user who isn't smart enough to understand what's horribly flawed with this OS!"

I don't quite agree with that, but I'm guessing that's what the OP was getting at.

Steve's Barber
Sep 9, 2011, 12:49 PM
What if you're all 3? :eek:

Seriously... another jaded and useless poll going nowhere.

dcrichmond
Sep 9, 2011, 02:17 PM
Lion has one huge bug that I still struggle with. Whenever I use multiple displays (external monitor plus the built in display) on my Macbook, I lose the ability to log in remotely via any of my iPad VNC apps. I can log in but I can't do anything. I hoped this would get fixed in 10.7.1 but alas I'm waiting for 10.7.2 for more reasons than just iCloud.


I am running multiple displays and can log in with my iPad using teamviewer. This is a free program - it might work for you - not a VNC program.

thadoggfather
Sep 9, 2011, 04:01 PM
"Everyone who likes Lion is a casual user who isn't smart enough to understand what's horribly flawed with this OS!"

I don't quite agree with that, but I'm guessing that's what the OP was getting at.

I am not getting at anything.

Get over yourself.

Pure curiosity. And the results seem almost equally distributed thus far.

Ruahrc
Sep 9, 2011, 04:12 PM
Cause anonymous internet polls are the most accurate and reliable method to gather statistics...?

My "upgrade" to Lion has been met with nothing but frustration after frustration at the ridiculously bad UI design decisions Apple made, or bug after bug affecting things I used to easily do in SL.

The bugs (hopefully) will get fixed, but who knows how many months I will have to suffer through them. The boneheaded "design decisions" probably are here to stay. In all the time I have used macs (going on 8+ years now), I have never been so frustrated or dissapointed with the OS. Until Lion.

Unfortunately I cannot retrograde to SL, as my "upgrade" to Lion came with a 2011 mac mini, which from what I can tell, doesn't run SL properly.

Ruahrc

50548
Sep 9, 2011, 05:31 PM
I'm not sure I get the point of this thread.

Me neither. Moronic title, moronic poll.

And yes, Lion IS ROCK SOLID for me.

derbothaus
Sep 9, 2011, 05:45 PM
Me neither. Moronic title, moronic poll.

And yes, Lion IS ROCK SOLID for me.

That's because YOU ARE A CONSUMER.

50548
Sep 9, 2011, 07:20 PM
That's because YOU ARE A CONSUMER.

So this means Lion is rock solid for 99% of users? Pure nonsense, since user profiles have nothing to do with system stability.

hayesk
Sep 9, 2011, 08:32 PM
Lion is an improvement, in my opinion. There are bugs as is natural with every upgrade, that will be fixed in a revision or two. I am a professional software developer; not a casual user.

Versions is a great idea, but I think some would be better if autosave was optional. Changing Save As to Duplicate is much better and encourages a better workflow, in my opinion.

derbothaus
Sep 10, 2011, 12:24 PM
So this means Lion is rock solid for 99% of users? Pure nonsense, since user profiles have nothing to do with system stability.

What are you talking about? You said Lion was rock solid, I said only for consumers is it rock solid. For professionals it is trash in the enterprise. No reason to bring up "user profiles". Either way a user account can be part of a stability problem hence why you create accounts to test against.

Mal
Sep 10, 2011, 02:40 PM
The reason you're not getting the comment about user profiles is because your bias is making you ignore the point. It's not about a user account, the point was that consumers are no less likely to have problems than "professionals". Hint: a lot of consumers are also professionals, in some field. The word professional is completely meaningless in this case.

Incidentally, I'm a professional and have no problems with Lion. I work with computers all the time, and while I'm not denying that some people have problems with Lion, and others are simply not happy with changes that were made (though not actually experiencing bugs), suggest that they are more likely to have problems because of the job that they are in is simply disingenuous. The only cases where that could be correct is people who work with software that is incompatible, and anyone working with job-critical software should never upgrade their OS until they know it will work correctly with their software.

jW

tahoeroscoe
Sep 10, 2011, 03:07 PM
I really love mission control and separate spaces for full screen apps. I never used spaces in SL, but i am really getting a lot out of it with lion. And then the 4 finger swipe to navigate between them is very smooth.

Still getting used to the reverse scrolling for up and down, years of muscle memory programmed into my brain. And it doesnt help that i have to use a windows machine at work with a standard scroll wheel. But i am trying to stick with it.

50548
Sep 10, 2011, 03:46 PM
What are you talking about? You said Lion was rock solid, I said only for consumers is it rock solid. For professionals it is trash in the enterprise. No reason to bring up "user profiles". Either way a user account can be part of a stability problem hence why you create accounts to test against.

Mal already explained my point, so I don't need to repeat it. You simply did not understand what I said above; "stability" has nothing to do with a user being professional or not (whatever that means).

If Lion were really that piece of trash a handful of people seem to portray here, I wouldn't be using and praising it right now, as a longtime Mac user (dealing all the time with multiple apps, multiple windows, heavy-duty encoding, high-end games, MS Office and so on).

People complain too much, even when options to revert back to old paradigms still exist (i.e., natural scrolling)...that's all.

CmdrLaForge
Sep 10, 2011, 03:57 PM
I use the Mac professional and in private. In both use cases I currently have no issues with Lion. I rolled back all the features I could roll back. But overall I am happy. I like in particular the new mail.app

Only real problem seems to be Safari with some bug.

derbothaus
Sep 11, 2011, 02:37 PM
It's not about "professional" it is about Enterprise. Do you have machines bound to multiple domains with network accounts that you have to manage? Do you require LDAP authentication and kerberos for a vast majority of authentications? Do you use SAN/ DFS for shared directories? Do you need connectivity to XSAN clusters? Fibre connected LTO5? Proper SSO?
This is what I meant. Not someone who cuts a little movie on final cut and gets paid for it. They are "professional".
Do you work directly with Apple engineers? Because I do. They know the bugs. WE are working them out. The rest is NDA.

wankey
Sep 11, 2011, 02:46 PM
I love Lion because it forces me to use less of my Mac and more of my super computer PC machine that is about 50x faster than it.

Until of course the next gen macbook pros with Ivy Bridge come out, I'll have to struggle with Lion again.

mrsir2009
Sep 11, 2011, 02:58 PM
There'd be more pros on a site like this though... And not as many grannies.

ciaopaty
Sep 16, 2011, 11:53 PM
Cause anonymous internet polls are the most accurate and reliable method to gather statistics...?

My "upgrade" to Lion has been met with nothing but frustration after frustration at the ridiculously bad UI design decisions Apple made, or bug after bug affecting things I used to easily do in SL.

The bugs (hopefully) will get fixed, but who knows how many months I will have to suffer through them. The boneheaded "design decisions" probably are here to stay. In all the time I have used macs (going on 8+ years now), I have never been so frustrated or dissapointed with the OS. Until Lion.

Unfortunately I cannot retrograde to SL, as my "upgrade" to Lion came with a 2011 mac mini, which from what I can tell, doesn't run SL properly.

Ruahrc

I agree. In my opinion this is the worst operating system Apple did so far. I have never seen the spinning colored ball so many times with almost every task the computer runs...Browsers, email, Flash, it's ridiculous, so many problems, and freezes...

CmdrLaForge
Sep 17, 2011, 04:38 AM
I agree. In my opinion this is the worst operating system Apple did so far. I have never seen the spinning colored ball so many times with almost every task the computer runs...Browsers, email, Flash, it's ridiculous, so many problems, and freezes...

I am really sorry for everyone who has big issues with Lion. I have upgraded my 2 MBP and 1 MP and use them without any issues, in a personal as well in a huge corporate environment without any big issues so far.

One thing I have to add is that I had to upgrade my private MBP to 8GB of RAM as Aperture became totally unusable. With the 8 GB it runs again very smooth. I have more then 40000 pictures in the library. Not sure if it has to do with that.

50548
Sep 17, 2011, 07:55 AM
I agree. In my opinion this is the worst operating system Apple did so far. I have never seen the spinning colored ball so many times with almost every task the computer runs...Browsers, email, Flash, it's ridiculous, so many problems, and freezes...

Have none of these...you probably have a lot of extraneous crap installed in your Mac - Lion has nothing to do with the aforementioned issues.

UKBeast
Sep 17, 2011, 10:19 AM
there are a few reasons which i think lion is better

1. full screen apps, with 13inch macbook pro its very important to have a full screen safari.

2. new gestures, i like the new gestures, 2 fingers double clicks zooms to the focus point on safari, and 3 fingers double click for dictionary word lookup

3. lanchpad is usefull when you are having full screen apps.

4. window size control now can be done with 4 corners of the window


apart from these, nothing i found very important..

fisherking
Sep 17, 2011, 12:33 PM
personally, i wish ALL OS's were about speed, stability, function. i'm much more interested in working with my apps than i am at playing with or admiring the OS.

lion has stuff i don't need (mission control, for example, some other stuff).
but that's ok, am enjoying using launchpad (also for example); i really like the new Mail...

so far, pretty stable, and reasonably fast. THAT'S what i care about, so am happy with Lion (and look forward to bug fixes, etc).

blackomega31
Sep 18, 2011, 01:27 AM
"Everyone who likes Lion is a casual user who isn't smart enough to understand what's horribly flawed with this OS!"

I don't quite agree with that, but I'm guessing that's what the OP was getting at.

Agreed with completely I do not consider myself a pro user but even I think the ui changes to lion is pure filth

The only and I mean only good thing to come out of lion is the resize on any part of the window

1) launchpad, the app launcher designed for two year olds

2) mission control. A shamwow is more useful. The old expose was perfect and need not be changed

3) file versions. Thanks to duplicate I get to double my ram usage and all I want to do is save a file

4) resume. Now my computer takes twice as long to startup while all the apps i forgot to close relaunch. It's like flushing a toilet but all the crap comes back up again

5) the interface in general. I am seeing a lot of grey where there used to be nice color. I think this is indication that apples next product line refresh will see computers with monochrome displays

Conclusion I hate windows with a passion but I think I would rather use windows 8 with that ugly stinking ribbon thing they got going then lion

sidewinder
Sep 18, 2011, 01:33 AM
Agreed with completely I do not consider myself a pro user but even I think the ui changes to lion is pure filth

The only and I mean only good thing to come out of lion is the resize on any part of the window

1) launchpad, the app launcher designed for two year olds

2) mission control. A shamwow is more useful. The old expose was perfect and need not be changed

3) file versions. Thanks to duplicate I get to double my ram usage and all I want to do is save a file

4) resume. Now my computer takes twice as long to startup while all the apps i forgot to close relaunch. It's like flushing a toilet but all the crap comes back up again

5) the interface in general. I am seeing a lot of grey where there used to be nice color. I think this is indication that apples next product line refresh will see computers with monochrome displays

Conclusion I hate windows with a passion but I think I would rather use windows 8 with that ugly stinking ribbon thing they got going then lion

Ridiculous!

S-

mrsir2009
Sep 18, 2011, 01:48 AM
Agreed with completely I do not consider myself a pro user but even I think the ui changes to lion is pure filth

The only and I mean only good thing to come out of lion is the resize on any part of the window

1) launchpad, the app launcher designed for two year olds How? Because its simply and easy to use?

2) mission control. A shamwow is more useful. The old expose was perfect and need not be changed Yeah, I don't think it needed to be changed. But the new mission control is alright as well.

3) file versions. Thanks to duplicate I get to double my ram usage and all I want to do is save a file True, but you forgot about the auto-save feature!

4) resume. Now my computer takes twice as long to startup while all the apps i forgot to close relaunch. It's like flushing a toilet but all the crap comes back up again Yes, but it is useful when you've installed new software. But I do think there should be an option in the system prefs to turn this off by deafult.

5) the interface in general. I am seeing a lot of grey where there used to be nice color. I think this is indication that apples next product line refresh will see computers with monochrome displays Haven't noticed this at all...

Conclusion I hate windows with a passion but I think I would rather use windows 8 with that ugly stinking ribbon thing they got going then lion

ceej
Sep 18, 2011, 06:48 AM
I think Lion will be fine in a few updates.

You should be right, as history has proven with every other OS.

vitzr
Sep 18, 2011, 07:24 AM
Apple has already stated the goal for Lion is ease of use for the beginner. It's been purpose built to include the look & feel of iOs to attract those who would otherwise have no interest. It's for the iPhone crowd. Those youngsters who've never had a computer yet. Grandma who's been afraid of them. That's what Lions about and why there's little backward compatibility.

There's nothing wrong with Lion. It will achieve the goal and add massive amounts of revenue to Apples bottom line. It's not about the OS, for Apple it's all about the money. Already wildly successful Apples addicted to more, more, more.

maflynn
Sep 18, 2011, 08:10 AM
Aren't prosumers consumers?

I consider my self a prosumer when it comes to photography but a consumer for all my computing needs.

As for Lion it has grown on me, at first I was underwhelmed but generally I think its been a positive move by apple. With 10.7.2 things have only gotten better because of the stability.

applefan289
Sep 18, 2011, 08:13 AM
I think the future is:

Comcast + Apple for consumers
at&t + Cisco + Microsoft for business/enterprise

Prosumers are somewhere in the middle and can get by with consumer stuff.

I'm just saying where I think it's headed, not that I like it or anything. :rolleyes:

colourfastt
Sep 18, 2011, 09:43 AM
Apple has already stated the goal for Lion is ease of use for the beginner. It's been purpose built to include the look & feel of iOs to attract those who would otherwise have no interest. It's for the iPhone crowd. Those youngsters who've never had a computer yet. Grandma who's been afraid of them. That's what Lions about and why there's little backward compatibility.

There's nothing wrong with Lion. It will achieve the goal and add massive amounts of revenue to Apples bottom line. It's not about the OS, for Apple it's all about the money. Already wildly successful Apples addicted to more, more, more.

It's not "ease of use for the beginner" ... Lion is "ease of use for the 3 year old".

sidewinder
Sep 18, 2011, 11:22 AM
It's not "ease of use for the beginner" ... Lion is "ease of use for the 3 year old".

No, it's just "ease of use". I am certainly a professional user and I quite comfortable with any version of Windows, Unix, Mac OS X, etc. I find Lion to be better than Snow Leopard and I prefer Mission Control to Spaces and Expose.

I remember when these GUI interfaces appeared. All the high and mighty pro users scoffed at the concept as just for beginners....

S-

colourfastt
Sep 18, 2011, 06:30 PM
No, it's just "ease of use". I am certainly a professional user and I quite comfortable with any version of Windows, Unix, Mac OS X, etc. I find Lion to be better than Snow Leopard and I prefer Mission Control to Spaces and Expose.

I remember when these GUI interfaces appeared. All the high and mighty pro users scoffed at the concept as just for beginners....

S-

I still do; the worst thing for the computer age was Win95 that allowed any nitwit to just turn on the computer and be automatically connected to the internet.

sidewinder
Sep 18, 2011, 07:09 PM
I still do; the worst thing for the computer age was Win95 that allowed any nitwit to just turn on the computer and be automatically connected to the internet.

You have no grasp on reality....do you?

S-

Lunchb0x8
Sep 18, 2011, 09:25 PM
Prosumer / Professional (closer to prosumer) and I love Lion, is rock solid for what I need to do.

Have never had a problems with any apps I use or any services that I take advantage of.

All the people whining about it not working for them must have some heavy duty stuff that wasn't updated along with Lion...