Henrico County Schools Dumps iBook Program After 4 Years, Ge...

[the_mole1314]

http://richmondtimesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031782431108

Looks like the first iBook program is going away, being replaced by Dells. Even though this is bad news, I hope this shows them that this was a bad decision every time some kid types in googke.com....

And with the amount of money spend on AirPort Extrems, Apples in the classrooms and librarys, tech support training out of the wazoo, and XServes, if they replace all of that they must be idiots.

[Mudbug]

seriously sad news. I feel sorry for the kids in the schools looking forward to a positive computer experience and instead getting a Dull.

For shame, Henrico, for shame.

[macridah]

That's weak for those students. Now they will get a lesson on dealing with customer support because dells break down, M$ crashes and loses your data.

[nagromme]

I feel bad for some people, but mainly just the kids, teachers, parents and taxpayers.

I don't feel sorry for Apple, since we'll have some great reverse-success stories coming out of Henrico in the coming year...

[aarond12]

I can't wait to see next year's story on this:

Hendrico dumps Dells and goes back to Mac

-Aaron-

[the_mole1314]

What the story forgets to mention is the millions spent on AirPorts, Xserves, and other hardware that Dell would want to replace but dosn't need replacing! Don't forget about all the new tech service people that are going to be needed at each school.

[Mr. Anderson]

oh, this is going to annoy some people...I feel sorry for the kids. And I'd love to hear the reasons for their making the switch to Dell - who's going to support the things and what about viruses? You have that many machines, there are going to be some serious issues eventually when one virus gets in and infects 50% of the machines..... :(

D

[Lacero]

Despite what everyone believes about computers making students smarter, I believe quite the opposite. And have for a long time. Writing with pen or paper or doing math calculations by hand increases a students ability to learn.

I'd probably put the money that went into the Dells into a better lunch program or more phys. ed activities.

[nagromme]

I'd put it into teachers first--then computers--then lunch--then new window trim--then phys ed ;)

I think a computer can help a child to write, if the school uses it the RIGHT way. It can free them to organize their thoughts.

That's assuming they are taught to think--not popular these days :D

Anyway, Apple just won a much BIGGER school contract I think, so that softens the blow!

[nosen]

That sucks, poor kids. I'm sure someone in Apple EDU sales is a little worried about losing their job... Ouch! :eek:

[2jaded2care]

Maybe they wanted to give their tech support guys something to do...

(Be careful what you wish for.)

[emw]

What's interesting to me is that Apple maintains the middle school program for another year. So these kids will learn everything Apple - then have to go to high school and start using the Dells.

Also, I suppose, it gives the school a year to determine the issues associated with the Dell devices. As for viruses, it may not be as big an issue since those laptops are pretty well locked down. One of my neighbors administers the iBook program at the local school district, and those kids can't even get onto the internet with the iBooks, and can't install any applications.

[bousozoku]

I think a lot of parents complained originally about the use of Apple computers and it's likely that the school board had changed in the meantime to end such use.

I think they'll find that their decision to change to Dells won't be a great thing. If my experience in a large corporate environment is anything similar to what the school system will see, 3 out of every 5 machines will be returned. Maybe, they'll be lucky and only have to return 2 of every 5.

[TwitchOSX]

Off Topic..

But in my high school.. before they got a bunch of lame dells, I was in the library, and figured I would change the "hand" icon in Netscape with.. damn.. forget the name.. Hexedit? The hand in question is like the little hand with the finger pointing up when you go over a link. I went into the preferences for Netscape, and found its icons where I changed the hand with the index finger pointing up, to just the middle finger pointing up.

/god I was lonely in high school lol

[TwitchOSX]

Library tech administrator wasnt happy.. asked me about it - I denied knowing what he was talking about.

[mainstreetmark]

Despite what everyone believes about computers making students smarter, I believe quite the opposite. And have for a long time. Writing with pen or paper or doing math calculations by hand increases a students ability to learn.

I'd probably put the money that went into the Dells into a better lunch program or more phys. ed activities.

Sing it, brother!

[me_94501]

At least Apple will be selling 63,000 iBooks to Cobb County, GA.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/0405/29laptops.html

[Phatpat]

Just FYI, Dell educational support is quite good. The school I work for over summer/winter breaks has a ton of dell laptops (as well as iBooks), and whenever there is a serious issue Dell is more helpful than one would expect. They will send you new hard drives if one fails, replace missing keys, etc etc. Even on laptops a couple years old. It's pretty impressive.

[Macmaniac]

Just FYI, Dell educational support is quite good. The school I work for over summer/winter breaks has a ton of dell laptops (as well as iBooks), and whenever there is a serious issue Dell is more helpful than one would expect. They will send you new hard drives if one fails, replace missing keys, etc etc. Even on laptops a couple years old. It's pretty impressive.
Its called a three warranty, if a part breaks they send you a new one, Apple does the same thing, if your HD fails they give you a new one.. etc...

[broken_keyboard]

I think they'll find that their decision to change to Dells won't be a great thing. If my experience in a large corporate environment is anything similar to what the school system will see, 3 out of every 5 machines will be returned. Maybe, they'll be lucky and only have to return 2 of every 5.

Yes, I have also had experience with Dell in a large corporate environment. It is truely shocking the number of machines that need replacing. However I agree with Lacero here anyway, computers should not be a priority for schools in the first place. Less heat coming out of computers and more coming out of their ears please...

[macridah]

Well the world is balanced again ... I guess mr jobs is even steven today :p

Cobb County school board approves Apple Mac plan; could eventually distribute 63,000 iBooks

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/5625/

[SiliconAddict]

Eugh. Guys. Everyone is throwing a hissyfit expecting that the school district is going to be screwed. A couple points from someone experienced with rolling out semi-massive architecture upgrades and hundreds of system rollouts at a time.

1. The core architecture is prob NOT going to be replaced. Even the most foolish Superintendent isn’t just going to take Dell’s word on it. You can be sure that they will upgrade what is necessary and that doesn’t include access points, servers, switchers, routers, etc.
from the standpoint of the laptops themselves. It really depends on the model. I have a Latitude CS X that has been rock solid over the last 4 years I’ve had it. Its hardly a speed demon but its stable, reliable, thin and light. The thing is I’ve seen Dell’s latest and greatest and they’ve gone downhill big time. They have tipped the scales between trying to cut cost and making it look and feel cheap. Right now. Eugh. Cheapness a side. Viruses aren’t an issue as long as the holy four are used:
lock down the desktop, antivirus, FireFox, and Firewall. Assuming they are going to have someone build a standard image for the system. (Prob one image for students and one for teachers.) If you get the initial image setup right support should be minimum. Remember that X out of the box needs hardly any tweaking. Windows does but if you get it setup right its pretty solid. Example. Patches. Not nearly as important if you have a solid firewall enabled and if security is locked down students won’t be able to disable the firewall or dink around with the settings. My money is the possibility that the district will enable SUS. System Update Server on a single standalone system that will push patches to the user when they come onsite.
This can be setup correctly. The problem is I’ve seen this **** before. If they are already cutting costs by going to dell they are prob going to end up cutting corners with the implementation and FUBAR that as well so in the end you guys are prob right. Support hell. :rolleyes:

[SiliconAddict]

Well the world is balanced again ... I guess mr jobs is even steven today :p

Cobb County school board approves Apple Mac plan; could eventually distribute 63,000 iBooks

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/5625/


lol. THAT is beautiful. :D

[winmacguy]

What's interesting to me is that Apple maintains the middle school program for another year. So these kids will learn everything Apple - then have to go to high school and start using the Dells.

Also, I suppose, it gives the school a year to determine the issues associated with the Dell devices. As for viruses, it may not be as big an issue since those laptops are pretty well locked down. One of my neighbors administers the iBook program at the local school district, and those kids can't even get onto the internet with the iBooks, and can't install any applications.

Yes but remember that Windows PCs are the only computers in the world, every computer in the world gets viruses and there is NO software available for the Mac ;) > :D :rolleyes:

[emw]

Some additional info.

Updated original article:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031782428831

Background:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031782403439

[the_mole1314]

However, in a letter to School Board members, Morton said Henrico schools have had an "outstanding relationship" with Dell for many years. He did not elaborate on the nature of that relationship.

Which is why my C++ class, computer information systems, and the technology classes all use HPs, right?

[Apple Hobo]

However, in a letter to School Board members, Morton said Henrico schools have had an "outstanding relationship" with Dell for many years. He did not elaborate on the nature of that relationship.

Out$tanding relation$hip, eh? ;) Sounds like someone is getting their pockets greased. :D

Mike Peterson, parent of a student at Henrico's Pocahontas Middle School, said he was pleased the committee used "sound judgment."

"A lot of people were surprised, including myself," Peterson said. "It looked as though Apple was going to come out ahead. I think this is going to be the best in the long run . . . because if Apple won, there would have been little incentive for them to improve."

"How dare you make my child use those crummy toy MAC's [sic]!"

[spencerwatts]

I live right next to Henrico County schools, and it was killing me these past few years, I wanted an iBook. But alas, they've gone the way of Chesterfield and are getting Dells.

Oh well. Thier loss.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Just FYI, Dell educational support is quite good. The school I work for over summer/winter breaks has a ton of dell laptops (as well as iBooks), and whenever there is a serious issue Dell is more helpful than one would expect. They will send you new hard drives if one fails, replace missing keys, etc etc. Even on laptops a couple years old. It's pretty impressive.

Too bad it doesn't equate for jobs in the US. Schools and other government/public entities should require that the support be done by US based support agents.

[macnulty]

For those of you not in sales, you win some, you lose some. Especially dealing with government entities. Generally, to get the bid, as a sales rep you buddy up to whomever writes the bid specs or whomever has influence over. Ideally you schmooze the buyer to the point he/she asks for your help in specing it out. Apple may have won the first round but it also now means its' competitor now knows where he has to be next time, throw in some inside information from techies all too willing to get Dell/Windows back in, you got a deal.

[Chip NoVaMac]

For those of you not in sales, you win some, you lose some. Especially dealing with government entities. Generally, to get the bid, as a sales rep you buddy up to whomever writes the bid specs or whomever has influence over. Ideally you schmooze the buyer to the point he/she asks for your help in specing it out. Apple may have won the first round but it also now means its' competitor now knows where he has to be next time, throw in some inside information from techies all too willing to get Dell/Windows back in, you got a deal.

How well I know that. Used to work for a government reseller. Lost a $500K bid (that was to go on an exclusive NIH BPA, that only a handful had) on the basis of of just like $750! In the end it was not awarded through the NIH BPA!

We had worked many hours (IIRC about 30 to 40 hours) to secure the info, specs, placement on the NIH BPA, and support for the bid). Only to lose it for a lousy $750! From a "bidder" (I placed it in quotes for a reason) that was not on the NIH BPA, but a different contract. In the end I worked hard only to deliver the info needed by his "preferred" vendor!

This was the only time that I totally lost it at work. I had hurled a White Pages directory (not the first time things have been thrown by the sales staff after losing a bid - but I was known as the "sane one". Not to mention along with many choices words :D ) across the work area.

I went on to two other Gov't resellers before deciding that sanity was a better choice - over better paychecks. If the taxpayers only knew what money was being wasted.

I worked for a photo reseller that in the September "buying spree" back in the '80', would charge LIST price for photo gear. Just an FYI, nobody pays list price for photo gear!

Glad that I now work in retail, and only have to worry about matching internet pricing.

[mmcxiiad]

I live near henrico and we were thinking about moving there to get our kids into a mac friendly school... ahh not now.

but here is my thought about the dell. this is going to be great for the kids who want to be "elite". if i was one of them, i would grab a copy of wintenals administrative tools, change the admin password, give me and all my friends admin rights to the computer and begin to really have fun. then i could get a packet sniffer and watch the watchers. oh and if i was really smart i would pay for trillian pro then me and my friends could chat while we are supposed to be learning in class. the 2 features that it supports is serverless IMing and encripted IMing - perfect for boring teachers.

I can just picture all these parents saying "gosh, why didn't the just get the kids a dell?" now they are going to see why. In the coming year i am going to hear first hand about this as my brother's wife works at one of henrico's high schools. i feel sorry for her now.

actually, i wish i was in high school again, it could be fun.

-Eric

[Mechcozmo]

actually, i wish i was in high school again, it could be fun.

Windows makes it all the more so! :D

[Mechcozmo]

damn.. forget the name.. Hexedit?

Resedit is what you were thinking of.

[Maxiseller]

I dunno...I suppose it's sad that they are switching over, but in all fairness, they probably didn't have the best experience with Apple.

The thing is, they were stuck with Appleworks for one, which in all honesty just isn't a patch on Office. Thats not to say they couldn't get office, but the Windows version is much easier to come by (OEM eddition, illegal downloads, friends copies) and thats not Apple's fault - it's just that to every mac, there are like 32 windows PC's so they have the majority.

Secondly, Mac's do take time to get used to. Now, I may come under a clutter of abuse saying this, but I found macs harder to use! That is because Ive been trained on PC's since I was 6, and it was unnatural not having to madly click away in the hope you'd find what you are looking for! I suspect that the parents of these kids certainly haven't given the Apple a chance - certainly not in the majority. Thats because they won't be using them, but even in this day and age, parents decide!

Thirdly, ibooks are slow. I mean, they really are. Four years old/maybe three - but try and open office on one of those bad boys. Its takes like 20 seconds to load up the introduction window just to click on new document. I can justify the slower speed by more productivity, but can school kids really when in reality they're mostly going on limewire to search for the really good porn?

Please don't hurl abuse!! I love my mac - and I wouldn't change it for the world. But I think in order to make the switch, you do have to put time and effort into doing it. While there may be one amazing program on the mac that does what you want, there are a thousand medicore ones for Windows. Unfortunately, people are lazy, and I think in this instance, it has shown that not everybody can put up with making the switch.

[Mord]

they are saving $20 per laptop with the dells, $20 measly bucks, which is going to be outwieghed by the support required for that many kids useing that man dells downloading that many dodgy files.

[Les Kern]

I live near henrico and we were thinking about moving there to get our kids into a mac friendly school... ahh not now.

but here is my thought about the dell. this is going to be great for the kids who want to be "elite". if i was one of them, i would grab a copy of wintenals administrative tools, change the admin password, give me and all my friends admin rights to the computer and begin to really have fun. then i could get a packet sniffer and watch the watchers. oh and if i was really smart i would pay for trillian pro then me and my friends could chat while we are supposed to be learning in class. the 2 features that it supports is serverless IMing and encripted IMing - perfect for boring teachers.

I can just picture all these parents saying "gosh, why didn't the just get the kids a dell?" now they are going to see why. In the coming year i am going to hear first hand about this as my brother's wife works at one of henrico's high schools. i feel sorry for her now.

actually, i wish i was in high school again, it could be fun.

-Eric

It's going to be the most glorious meltdown in high school history for some of the very reasons you mention.
I'm a tech director for a school district and we have been thinking about a 1-1 for our students. We've actually hosted the folks from Henrico here, and spent considerable time on it. Although nobody embraces technology more than we do, my GUT feeling is that a 1-1 is an incredible waste of money for the taxpayers, a drain on almost everything I do with the other systems, and unless it's embraced school-wide and not just with a few teachers, that it will actually diminish learning. While a tech guy, I LIKE chalk-time, eye-contact, a 1-1 with the teacher and student. In my high school we have about 350 laptops in use. Just look at Remote Desktop sometime, and tell me that Flash games, skateboarding sites and Hotmail are part of the curriculum. Whereas in our teaching labs the kids are on task and REALLY learning about GoLive, inDesign and the like. All the screens face the teacher. The kids are ENGAGED, not sitting in the back of the class bouncing from Safari porn to MS Word when the teacher gets close. The validity and use of labs has come full-circle.
As for ANY Windows machine, XP is an abomination, and an XP laptop in the hands of even moderately savy kids will lead to problems I think that that panel of folks at Henrico were either misled or blind to the facts.
Pray for them, but it will be fun to watch.

[the_mole1314]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: what we should do (as in henrico county we, as in I'm a senior there) is have class room sets of iBooks, then have rental stations. You can give the class room sets out for doing work, sync it up to the server to save files (or a thumb drive, or an iPod), and you can rent a iBook for work (projects, etc). After you turn in the iBook it is automatically blasted with a new image, cleaned, and checked for problems.

[maxterpiece]

When I get in a discussion over whole "windows or mac, which is better" discussion, I will easily concede that a person who is good with computers and has self-control (IE won't download anything that "looks cool!") has plenty of good reasons to choose a windows. It is when parents come complaining to me that they have to reinstall windows every few months on their kids computer or else pay a tech guy $50 an hour to come clean up that computer that I freak out and say stuff like, "for the love of god, open your mind! Just get an apple! You won't have this HUGE hassle anymore!"

Unfortunately 99% of people want what they know. Windows wins out by sort of creating this climate of fear among its users that computers are vicious and unpredictable animals, and if you don't stick with what you know - don't tinker with anything because you will never understand what you have done and you will screw things up beyond repair. By this logic, if they get a mac and they've never used Mac OS, they will be paralyzed and unable to do a thing on that new computer. Partner this with the idea that, Macs are so different from PCs that if a kid learns how to use a mac, he won't be prepared for the real world - a world that is run by PCs. Finally, I think maybe the biggest and most justifiable explanation for this is that parents want to be able to help their kids with their computers and the tasks they do on them. If they don't know how to use apples then they feel helpless in that area.

[Mord]

i personally think it's best for kids to learn as many operating systems as possible, M$ will not rule forever and it's best to know linux windows and the mac os, every kid knows how to use windows, you go to friends houses who have pc's internet cafés generally have pc's, to go through life and not have to use a pc is a very hard thing to do (i succeed in this fount).

as for the fear of learning a new OS, it is just fear, i told a friend of mine that had never used a mac and had only used windows ME and XP at school, he loves his new ibook and has not asked for any help with it, any reasonably intelligent person can work out how to use a mac within 5 mins to learn the basics and 30 mins to master the entire GUI.

[Chip NoVaMac]

As for ANY Windows machine, XP is an abomination, and an XP laptop in the hands of even moderately savy kids will lead to problems I think that that panel of folks at Henrico were either misled or blind to the facts.
Pray for them, but it will be fun to watch.

This is the problem. It is not just tech savy kids, but the sham/scam artists out there that there that is also a problem.

I am not a total techno-geek, but it does seem that M$ could make XP and future OS's less prone to hijacking.

As to renting (answering mole's comments). There are social/economic issues with that. I would prefer that a student that wanted or needed a system at home could check one out, like any book at the library. Any family that did not have insurance to cover the loss of the computer could get an affordable coverage that could be likened to your rental fee.

I support the idea of giving each student a laptop at the start of the year, only if it replaces the textbooks that they use. Not sure if times have changed much, but I left HS in '76. I went back to my JHS as a substitute teacher in the '77 school year. In my JHS days, the history books were just beginning to accept JFK as president, or in rare cases LBJ as president. And even 4 to 6 years later, the students were using the same text books (I know this as fact since I picked up one, and it had my name in it!).

According to my quick research, there are about 65 million school aged children in the US. According to the Washington Post this past Sunday, we have spent or will spend $186B US for the war in Iraq. That works out to be about $2800 for each school aged student. More than enough IMO to equip each student with a laptop (of any sort) for their 12 years of school.

NCLB was meant to bring about standards. By giving each student a laptop that could be used as an ebook machine, we could ring about a greater ability to have a greater national standard. Yes, it would mean a change in publishing of text books. Instead of 100's on a subject to choose from, it may be 20 or so. But in the end this may raise the standards of what is published. Also there would be an economy of scale issue, that the textbooks could be updated more easily and cheaply.

Maybe, dare I say, allow school districts the ability to participate in e-publishing. Allowing them to pick the best parts of each "book", in order to meet the social needs of their district?

Back to the original post. I do believe that in my experience as a Mac/Windows user, and in the past selling and supporting both platforms - that any wholesale move towards the Windows OS is not in the best interest of limited public funds to support IT.

[Chip NoVaMac]

When I get in a discussion over whole "windows or mac, which is better" discussion, I will easily concede that a person who is good with computers and has self-control (IE won't download anything that "looks cool!") has plenty of good reasons to choose a windows. It is when parents come complaining to me that they have to reinstall windows every few months on their kids computer or else pay a tech guy $50 an hour to come clean up that computer that I freak out and say stuff like, "for the love of god, open your mind! Just get an apple! You won't have this HUGE hassle anymore!"

Unfortunately 99% of people want what they know. Windows wins out by sort of creating this climate of fear among its users that computers are vicious and unpredictable animals, and if you don't stick with what you know - don't tinker with anything because you will never understand what you have done and you will screw things up beyond repair. By this logic, if they get a mac and they've never used Mac OS, they will be paralyzed and unable to do a thing on that new computer. Partner this with the idea that, Macs are so different from PCs that if a kid learns how to use a mac, he won't be prepared for the real world - a world that is run by PCs. Finally, I think maybe the biggest and most justifiable explanation for this is that parents want to be able to help their kids with their computers and the tasks they do on them. If they don't know how to use apples then they feel helpless in that area.

In a small way MS does foster this idea. Even though they offer Office in both a Win and Mac environment, the GUI is different between the two. And in the Mac space (since it is the "lesser of the two), there is no option to have Windows styled structure. My ex gave up on an eMac that I had bought him because of this Office issue.

And why should MS change? As long as MS is able to offer both the OS and application software, with no laws that state that there needs to be a higher degree of compatibility on offerings on other OS's, MS is able to "double dip". Getting both the OS $ and the application $. Not all software publishers play this sick game.

Adobe, IMO, basically has the same menu and operational structure regardless of the OS you are on. I have bounced freely between Photoshop, Acrobat, and InDesign; and many other programs - without loosing the user experience. I can not say the same for MS products. And as long as we have the current laws we do, why should they?

The other issue at play is that I think some parents are looking at the notebook computers that are to be given to their kids, as "free" computers (since they paid for it, through their tax dollars); that could be used if they needed one for their own work.

[Chip NoVaMac]

i personally think it's best for kids to learn as many operating systems as possible, M$ will not rule forever and it's best to know linux windows and the mac os, every kid knows how to use windows, you go to friends houses who have pc's internet cafés generally have pc's, to go through life and not have to use a pc is a very hard thing to do (i succeed in this fount).

as for the fear of learning a new OS, it is just fear, i told a friend of mine that had never used a mac and had only used windows ME and XP at school, he loves his new ibook and has not asked for any help with it, any reasonably intelligent person can work out how to use a mac within 5 mins to learn the basics and 30 mins to master the entire GUI.

My apologies for this third post.

I agree with your post.

The whole issue about different OS's is no different in my mind then the discussion about about the controls that we see in our cars. For these controls could be seen as an OS. They are all different between brands, and even models in the same manufacturer. In the end we cope.

The problem becomes one of where one has two different "cars" (using both cars and computers in this example). We seem to accept that each car has a different way for lets say the wipers, cruise control, or in extreme cases how the transmission is put into gear.

I liken the differences between the MS apps for Mac and Win to being more like if we had to deal with basic day-to-day issues with our cars. How would we respond if GM had a different method of filling up the tank with gas over the Ford? Or that only Jiffy Lube was able to do an oil change on Toyotas and Hondas? Or that Chrysler and Subaru required two keys to get in the trunk of our cars?

In any of the above cases I think that people would scream bloody murder, till the laws were changed.

[Fightingravity]

I am an eighth grader in Henrico County and have had an iBook from them for the past three years. Honestly, I never touch mine...

I'm completly for Mac and would die without my G5 iMac that I live on after school, my whole family refers to any other product as 'The Dark Side' and when Henrico County origanally announced their contract with Apple I flipped out. I was so excited about having an iBook and the county's decision to go with Apple was like a little holiday at my household.

Now here I am, four years later, having had my iBook for three years now, and it is always uncharged, lays in my room, never touched, never even taken to school. Why the change of heart? The school, the school and what they have done to the computers, they terribly fail to mention in this article from the richmond times dispatch the limited memory and the terrible quality of the iBooks, of course, how good can you expect laptops to run after being hauled too and forth from school every day by a 13 year old? The OS X on the G3 machine does not provide for the best quality of actions nd unfortunatly opinions of Apple through middle and highschool students throughout Henrico County have only lowered considerably since the original purchase. The constant failing of the computers is only made worse by the amazing restrictions put on by the county. Originally being so pleased that many of my friends would be introduced to the wonderful world of Apple, I am highly dissapointed at the effect they have had on so many's image of Mac and to know that the rest of the company and it's products are being judged by the iBooks the county provides for us incredibly dissapoints me.

Ah... and now the decision to switch to Dell? After much thought on the matter I've decided that I don't really give a crap, I'm not going to be in Henrico County anyway next year so let them throw it all completly to hell. If the iBooks came out the way they did after four years with teenagers, and if one complained as much about how much the Apple computers broke down and had technical problems then I just can't wait to see how the Dells will survive it. Giving these computers to these kids (yes, including me) is throwing them all to hell, and Macs, being Macs, survived it kind of okay...oh but the Dells, I can't wait to laugh at how they turn out...

The techies at the school who are in charge of taking care of the computers, and setting up internet and printer access for all those children, if they thought it was hard with the Macs, I feel so amazingly sorry for the hell they will go through with the Dells... sucks for you guys, I'm sorry. But I'm glad I'm leaving when I am.

[EJBasile]

The schools in my town did the iBook Deal. I supported them thinking it was a good idea and I personally donated over $15,000 to the middle school to buy them. The middle school bought 40 laptops and now there are about 10 perfect ones, 10 with repairable keyboards (needs keys), 10 with destroyed keyboards, and 10 that are beyond repair. Thats just the middle school, iBooks were also purchased for the 3-5 schools and the highschool.

It upsets me that almost all the iBooks are destoryed and that the school is willing to only put $1100 into fixing them. I also do not understand why they are pretty much going to through them away and replace them with virus and spyware prone PCs not to mension there incredible size. The ones that they chuck maybe I'll try to get fix , and donate to a more deserving school.

The schools above 3rd grade are ditching the macs as well and giving them to the k-2 grade schools (they're gonna have a lot of computers).

My little rant, theres nothing I can do about it.

[Mechcozmo]

It upsets me that almost all the iBooks are destoryed and that the school is willing to only put $1100 into fixing them. I also do not understand why they are pretty much going to through them away and replace them with virus and spyware prone PCs not to mension there incredible size. The ones that they chuck maybe I'll try to get fix , and donate to a more deserving school.

Pick up a bunch. Even the totaled iBooks still can be used for spare parks (take their keyboard for anothers). You can probably end up with 25 workable computers after all said and done.

[maxterpiece]

The schools in my town did the iBook Deal. I supported them thinking it was a good idea and I personally donated over $15,000 to the middle school to buy them. The middle school bought 40 laptops and now there are about 10 perfect ones, 10 with repairable keyboards (needs keys), 10 with destroyed keyboards, and 10 that are beyond repair. Thats just the middle school, iBooks were also purchased for the 3-5 schools and the highschool.

It upsets me that almost all the iBooks are destoryed and that the school is willing to only put $1100 into fixing them. I also do not understand why they are pretty much going to through them away and replace them with virus and spyware prone PCs not to mension there incredible size. The ones that they chuck maybe I'll try to get fix , and donate to a more deserving school.

The schools above 3rd grade are ditching the macs as well and giving them to the k-2 grade schools (they're gonna have a lot of computers).

My little rant, theres nothing I can do about it.

I think that the issue is clearly that these programs was not implemented correctly. The deals go through because the idea is very "buzz creating" - in other words, whoever makes these kinds of deals happen gets a lot of press for revolutionizing how computers are used in schools - probably a bunch of school board members with no imagination. These guys never put any serious thought into how difficult it is to make teachers use computers in their classrooms when they have no such training and are mostly probably stuck in their ways. The board members got their press then, when it doesn't revolutionize anything they blame it on the computer company (apple) and the teachers.

I think it definitely makes sense for a college to give laptops to all their students, but most kids below that age don't know how to take care of things. I've owned several ibooks, and i have to say they are extremely durable machines, but they are also not unbreakable. If a school wanted to do this right they would first shift their focus to teaching their teachers to use computers in classrooms on a day to day basis. Train them to do fun and interesting things through the computer. Once they know what they are doing, then implement the program, and make sure they have a service contract with the laptop provider to repair any problems that come up - even if a kid accidentally drops his ibook in the toilet, they should be prepared to fix it (or replace it as the case may be).

Most ideas can be successful if they are implemented correctly. Henrico apparently was not.

[840quadra]

lots of good points on this thread.

I graduated High school in 97, we had no such program for home Laptops or PC's. What I can say from experience is the transition from Macintosh to Compaq in our school computer labs and library during 1996, was an extremely hard battle for both the IT staff and Students in my high school.

I had been a "geek" when it came to computers since I was in 5th grade, so the transition wasn't too terrible for me. We had already purchased an Acer Aspire and loaded it with Windows 95 by this point, so I already knew the OS, and features better then most teachers and students. I ended up with a student IT position to assist Students, and Teachers with Computer related issues during my Senior year.

During the transition my District had to spend $40k over budget for extra Training, support, and hardware to get the Windows systems up to par with the Macintosh computers they replaced. This cost cut into MANY programs and reduced the availability of other activities that students like myself enjoyed. Spyware and viruses were not a problem as much back then, however students found it easier to "hack" the Windows 95 systems then they did the Macintosh computers. The district had attempted multiple security programs such as "fortress", but they were easy for many kids to hack into.

I hope that this more modern transition from the ibook line to Dell doesn’t hurt similar programs for this school district. Having gone to a school that did a "switch" to Microsoft based systems from Macintosh, I know a little of what some of these kids will go through

[Mord]

keyboards are easyly fixable, if a key comes off (which takes a fair bit of effort) you can just push most back on and some keys require you to slot in a wire frame which is not difficult at all, as for those "beyond repair" worst case the logic board is bad probably just failed HD's which happens.

ibooks are very tough laptops, i hate to think what will happen with the dells.

[Les Kern]

Most ideas can be successful if they are implemented correctly. Henrico apparently was not.

From the outside it may appear so, but in reality the planners at Henrico did indeed spend considerable time on planning the implementation. When they visited my district I saw first-hand what it consisted of, and we grilled them for 8 HOURS on every aspect. They had it going... even down to how to dispose of dead batteries and how and who was to do a swap if there was a dead machine. As for the curriculum it was first-rate. The training they offered first to the staff and then the students was all-encompassing. No, this switch had nothing to do with the "plan". I think it had more to do with too much power in the hands of the willfully deaf. 30 bucks isn't enough to offset the incredibly naive belief that Windows was or is the answer.
Just yesterday I had the ONE PC laptop in my district get a trojan. Virus def were updated, it was a new one. Took FOUR FREAKIN HOURS to get it right. One damn laptop.
They are fools, and I will not pray for them.

[mmcxiiad]

this switch was definitly not planned. i think i can summize the senario:

1. any time you give out 1-1 laptops in a school enviornment, you are going to have probems. some kids will be responcible, others won't. there will be a full gambit of issue from abuse to never desiring to use it.

2. the teachers will initially embrace the idea but then it becomes a pain to integrate thier lessons into using the computers. they become aware of how this can either be a tool or a toy in the classroom from first hand expierence. remember that these are the same people who only get paid 30,000+ per year for having a masters degree. so going the extra mile is a tough sell to teachers

3. the parents field the complaint department. they want to know why something does or doesn't work. and most kids boil problems down becouse they either can't or don't feel like explaining the details. "Why don't you use your laptop?" will get answers like "it is a piece of crap". when the real answer is maybe it just needs more ram or someone spilt thier coke on it and doesn't want to let thier parents know. ultimatly parents look at this with only 2 critera what is it going to do to my tax bill and is it going to be a better learning tool for my child. above that, most parents are unaware that the computer world exsists outside of Dell and Microsoft.

4. Elected School Officials- this is the easy one. after a few years of complaints, they are just concerned about getting elected on the next go round. they were the first to buckle.


this entire process will repeat with dell or anyone else's computers. the only differnece is this is now a platform that the parents use at work and they think that now it will be easier to help thier kids.

These kids are not stupid, they are going to try to work the system to thier advantage. and thier are far more loopholes on windows xp to do so. but here is the ultimate problem. no laptop in the $1200 range that comes preloaded with office is going to have enough of everything (like ram) to make a a good enough tool to be used for 4 years. so on the 4th year when they are using aged technology of course it is going to be frustrating to everyone. Again this is where you start to hear the rumblings of the parents saying "they should have just gotten a dell".

and this isn't about the money. the $30 per laptop they are saving is going to be spent 2 or 3 times in the conversion process. and they are very aware of that.

when 4 years are up this time, they will be having all new problems and i am positive that the parents will find a new finger of blame to point at the current program and then the new flavor of the year will be suggested as the programs savior.

(EDIT: i am generalizing in this post, i realize that not every student, parent and teacher are identical - although elected officals do crack to the will of the taxpayer)

[tdhurst]

Did anyone notice that one of the reasons they wanted to go with the dells was because they came with Microsoft Office and the iBooks only came with Appleworks?
Let's see...$150 per three computers to upgrade to MS Office for Mac....

[mmcxiiad]

$150 per three computers to upgrade to MS Office for Mac.

that is assuming that they paid full msrp. i think they would have paid closer to 120 each, while that doesn't seem like much it adds up in a program that size

[tiggermc]

[QUOTE=the_mole1314]Which is why my C++ class, computer information systems, and the technology classes all use HPs, right?[/QUOTE

computers used in the Eastern Government Center are Dells as are all of the servers that are running everything behind the scenes.

[tiggermc]

<<Sounds like someone is getting their pockets greased.>>

No, that was Mark Edwards who became a "consultant" to Holt Publishing right after he worked a deal for them to provide Henrico online books.

[tiggermc]

[QUOTE=Hector]
ibooks are very tough laptops,

Who are you kidding? Is that why we're told to never stack more than 3 Ibooks on top of each other because if you put 4, the screen on the bottom one cracks? Is that why the average over 3 years has been over 10% of the Ibooks out for repairs on any given day? Is that why they changed from tray load cd to slot load, because they Ibooks were so tough???

[calyxman]

What the hell is everyone so up in arms about? Those students are lucky that they're being given laptops from the school system! Talk about spoiled!