Would like to set up an offsite backup (networking newb)

zerocustom1989 · Sep 23, 2011

Hey guys,

I'm looking to create/buy an offsite backup device that I can leave at my parents' house to store backups of my files. I was considering wanting the ability of making some friends/family some user accounts on it, though im not sure how much extra that's going to cost me.

I'm new to all networking terms and technologies and i'm not really sure where to start.

My goal is to have an offsite location that I can connect to from a variety of clients. I'd like the ability to create user accounts on this device so other people can have their own backups on it.

I have been reading about getting a server, an NAS as well as looking into the features of Mac OSX Lin Server.

What are you guys' thoughts? I figure this is possible but I dont know where to start.

Thanks.

DustinT · Sep 23, 2011

A lot will depend on the budget, time and energy you have... I'd suggest that installing Crashplan on a pc at their place would be an easy entry point.

zerocustom1989 · Sep 23, 2011

DustinT said:
A lot will depend on the budget, time and energy you have... I'd suggest that installing Crashplan on a pc at their place would be an easy entry point.

Well, Im looking into a 2-bay RAID NAS. It seems to be the option that will work best for me. It's got some good on board software that would allow me to set up user accounts and some CalDAV stuff. The cost will come to 310.00 after buying drives for it. (2x1TB).

My only concerns now are security.

DustinT · Sep 24, 2011

Yes, you store the files on the NAS you mentioned and use Crashplan to manage remote backups, security and a few other things.

DoFoT9 · Sep 24, 2011

hmmm. this could get very complicated very quickly.

things to consider.
1. which protocol you are going to use, (S)FTP, AFP, SMB, etc
2. what types of backup you will be performing (clones, incrementals, etc)
3. how often the backups will run (hourly, daily, weekly, monthly?)
4. whether you would like to keep different versions of each backup (to "roll back" to older times).
5. will you backup the entire system drive, or just user folders?

and a bunch of other stuff.

now, it is possible to implement Time Machine in this manner (with the appropriate network setup). but of course there are other methods.

lets start with those questions maybe

zerocustom1989 · Sep 24, 2011

DoFoT9 said:
hmmm. this could get very complicated very quickly.

things to consider.
1. which protocol you are going to use, (S)FTP, AFP, SMB, etc
2. what types of backup you will be performing (clones, incrementals, etc)
3. how often the backups will run (hourly, daily, weekly, monthly?)
4. whether you would like to keep different versions of each backup (to "roll back" to older times).
5. will you backup the entire system drive, or just user folders?

and a bunch of other stuff.

now, it is possible to implement Time Machine in this manner (with the appropriate network setup). but of course there are other methods.

lets start with those questions maybe

1) Since I think windows and macs will be connecting to this I figure (S)ftp would be best? The RAID NAS I'm considering is by Synology so i'm not sure how much control I have over that... It's got its own built in OS that seems to manage some of that stuff? (I add a question mark because I made a few assumptions in there). Also, to be honest, I dont know too much about the protocols. It's a gray spot for me atm.

2) Backups will just be either syncing a folder to the NAS using transmit or other client based syncing system. I will assume that people will just be placing clones of their files in the NAS. No incrementals.

3) I figure weekly. It's just for myself and my family. It's not a business.

4) No roll-back. Dont really need it.

5) Just some folders. Pics/Music.

This is a tertiary backup for myself. I have a time machine here that manages all my roll-back options. This remote NAS would just be to sync pics and music to.

DustinT · Sep 24, 2011

DoFoT9 said:
hmmm. this could get very complicated very quickly.

Lol, you guys are a mess. This isn't complicated, you are making it so. All the stuff you are worried about is managed and *free* from Crashplan.

DoFoT9 · Sep 24, 2011

zerocustom1989 said:
1) Since I think windows and macs will be connecting to this I figure (S)ftp would be best? The RAID NAS I'm considering is by Synology so i'm not sure how much control I have over that... It's got its own built in OS that seems to manage some of that stuff? (I add a question mark because I made a few assumptions in there). Also, to be honest, I dont know too much about the protocols. It's a gray spot for me atm.

ahh yes, they have their own file system on their which they have implemented. honestly though, you could go with a free linux OS variant known as FreeNAS - once installed it gives you a rather logical web based GUI to set everything up. and it basically supports everything that Synology appears to have as well (only free!).

thats your decision though

This is a tertiary backup for myself. I have a time machine here that manages all my roll-back options. This remote NAS would just be to sync pics and music to.

if that is the case, then maybe something as simple as creating a zip folder of each directory, and FTPing into your off-site. or using CarbonCopyCloner or similar to automate the connection for you, there are so so many ways to automate it.

DustinT said:
Lol, you guys are a mess. This isn't complicated, you are making it so. All the stuff you are worried about is managed and *free* from Crashplan.

free? only for <10GBs. and you're forgetting that many people do not have unlimited data on their internet connection. not to mention that the time to upload 3.8TB of data is well within the WEEK range, and that assumes a fast upload speed. not to mention the fact that full recovery of data then requires downloading too, as opposed to a drive to the house to pick up the drive/s.

sure, cloud solutions really do have their purpose and area - for this task i am not sure it will be worth the investment, given that 3.8TB data is very very expensive to hire online.

DustinT · Sep 24, 2011

DoFoT9 said:
free? only for <10GBs. and you're forgetting that many people do not have unlimited data on their internet connection. not to mention that the time to upload 3.8TB of data is well within the WEEK range, and that assumes a fast upload speed. not to mention the fact that full recovery of data then requires downloading too, as opposed to a drive to the house to pick up the drive/s.

sure, cloud solutions really do have their purpose and area - for this task i am not sure it will be worth the investment, given that 3.8TB data is very very expensive to hire online.

Backing up unlimited data to a friend's house in completely free. And there's no upload time to worry about since Crashplan has builtin support to create the initial backup on an external device, transport that to the remote location and bypass the 3.8TB upload your referring to. After that, the only uploads are the changes. There's built-in encryption, user quotas and versioning.

The only think you might have to pay for would be uploading to Crashplan's servers which isn't what the OP wants nor is it what I was suggesting.

zerocustom1989 · Sep 24, 2011

DustinT said:
Backing up unlimited data to a friend's house in completely free. And there's no upload time to worry about since Crashplan has builtin support to create the initial backup on an external device, transport that to the remote location and bypass the 3.8TB upload your referring to. After that, the only uploads are the changes. There's built-in encryption, user quotas and versioning.

The only think you might have to pay for would be uploading to Crashplan's servers which isn't what the OP wants nor is it what I was suggesting.

I would still need to end up buying a RAID storage unit for a computer then because I don't have anything sufficient for backups in size at that location. Tat cost would end up being the same. I don't know If i like the idea of purposing HDD space across sever computers to use as backups. Seems like it would hassle more than 1 person.

The one thing crash plan offers me that I find appealing is the encryption. I'm not sure if it's possible to implement anything like that on my own or via synology's OS.

DustinT · Sep 24, 2011

Yes, there's no way around the need to purchase an array of storage. My suggestion is that Crashplan is much easier to admin that going the other toures you were talking about. Well, unless you are a server guy, in which case I don't think you'd be posting here now would ya?

Anyway, you'll have to buy some storage for sure. And I susptect if you at least get Crashplan installed on a couple of PC's and see how the features work you won't be too upset. I find it pretty easy to admin, but then, I've got a couple of decades doing this kind of stuff. There's some nice features to help manage multiple users like quotas and status reports. Since you mentioned you wanted to set this up at your parents place and share it with your friends, it seemed obvious to suggest that to me.

Now, you certainly can setup a more sophisticated system as was discussed earlier in this thread. I'm merely pointing out that you don't have to do that to gain the features you were asking for.

zerocustom1989 · Sep 24, 2011

DustinT said:
Yes, there's no way around the need to purchase an array of storage. My suggestion is that Crashplan is much easier to admin that going the other toures you were talking about. Well, unless you are a server guy, in which case I don't think you'd be posting here now would ya?

Anyway, you'll have to buy some storage for sure. And I susptect if you at least get Crashplan installed on a couple of PC's and see how the features work you won't be too upset. I find it pretty easy to admin, but then, I've got a couple of decades doing this kind of stuff. There's some nice features to help manage multiple users like quotas and status reports. Since you mentioned you wanted to set this up at your parents place and share it with your friends, it seemed obvious to suggest that to me.

Now, you certainly can setup a more sophisticated system as was discussed earlier in this thread. I'm merely pointing out that you don't have to do that to gain the features you were asking for.

I may not be a 'server guy', but I've almost got a degree in CompEngineering and I'd like to have some knowledge regarding servers before I head into the 'real world'. Im thinking of this as a beneficial learning experience.

DustinT · Sep 24, 2011

zerocustom1989 said:
Hey guys...

I'm new to all networking terms and technologies and i'm not really sure where to start...

What are you guys' thoughts? I figure this is possible but I dont know where to start.

zerocustom1989 said:
I may not be a 'server guy', but I've almost got a degree in CompEngineering and I'd like to have some knowledge regarding servers before I head into the 'real world'. Im thinking of this as a beneficial learning experience

Sorry man, I thought you were looking for a place to start, like you said initially. If you 'almost' have a CompEngineering degree than you should almost be able to figure this out. Oh, and the most important real world skill you can have is working with people.

zerocustom1989 · Sep 24, 2011

DustinT said:
Sorry man, I thought you were looking for a place to start, like you said initially. If you 'almost' have a CompEngineering degree than you should almost be able to figure this out. Oh, and the most important real world skill you can have is working with people.

'Almost' = December, lol. Thanks for the help.

I think I'll go with this Synology RAID NAS. Seems like a good option. It's not completely raw like going from a fresh Linux build or anything, but hopefully the added features will be beneficial.

DoFoT9 · Sep 24, 2011

DustinT said:
Backing up unlimited data to a friend's house in completely free.

huh?

And there's no upload time to worry about since Crashplan has builtin support to create the initial backup on an external device, transport that to the remote location and bypass the 3.8TB upload your referring to.

i guess so, but that investment alone could be the cost of a dual bay NAS + hard drives (once you consider purchasing the bay+drives+shipping).

After that, the only uploads are the changes. There's built-in encryption, user quotas and versioning.

all very good features, one which my business is actually considering using this very instant. but for an individual user.. I'm not so sure..

I'm more about considering the requirements of the software, before choosing the hardware - that's all.. sure you can go out and buy/hire these tools, but if they will actually perform the task that you require.. that is the question i am trying to address

belvdr · Sep 27, 2011

Depending on the changes made, this could easily saturate a residential Internet connection. The upload speeds are going to kill you most likely.

dtype · Oct 3, 2011

I think crash plan is definitely a great solution. However, as someone with a lot of data I've found that splitting up the data I just need storage for and the data I need access to all the time can help you save some dough and also become more efficient in the long run.

For non-essential data:
You can dump as much storage as you like into Amazon S3, they only charge you when you need to access it.

For shared and essential data:
A front end for Amazon S3 is a product called Jungle Disk that is now a subsidary of Rackspace. They offer complete cross platform functionality, mapped folders, a server edition, the list goes on.

I work at a middle/elementary school and I've implemented this for the students to be able to access work they do at school at home or wherever they are, which the teachers have permissions set to view the work they need to turn in... you get the idea.

Hope that might help!

Pressure · Oct 3, 2011

TimeMachine makes incremental backups based on the entire file, so it is bandwidth heavy.

The best solution as I see it would be to make an Solaris server with the ZFS+ filesystem, where the incremental backups are on bit levels and automatic error correction. Much easier on the network / internet connection.

If safe backup is the priority, go that route.

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