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MacRumors
Sep 30, 2011, 08:11 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/30/samsung-proposes-deal-with-apple-for-galaxy-tab-launch-in-australia/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/08/galaxy_tab_10_1-150x153.jpg

The Wall Street Journal reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204138204576602242037936786.html) that Samsung's lawyers have proposed a deal to Apple that would allow Samsung to launch its delayed Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia as soon as next week. Samsung has already delayed the launch of the device several times as Apple pursues a preliminary injunction to officially halt the device launch ahead of a full hearing on alleged intellectual property infringement. The terms of Samsung's proposed deal were not disclosed to the court audience.It wasn't clear what benefit Apple would gain from any agreement, as details of the proposed deal were not discussed in full in front of the court. But Apple's attorney, Stephen Burley, conceded there was some potential benefit from an agreement on the matter. "(Samsung's) inconvenience would be diminished and we would be comforted" by such a deal, he said.

Justice Annabelle Bennett said that the proposed deal wouldn't give Samsung the satisfaction of a final answer to the dispute, but Mr. Catterns said it would at least allow the company to sell its new tablet computer ahead of the crucial Christmas sales period.Apple and Samsung are locked in numerous legal battles in a number of countries, and Apple has had some success (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/09/german-injunction-against-sale-of-galaxy-tab-10-1-upheld/) in preventing Samsung from selling its Galaxy Tab 10.1 device.

Just yesterday, we noted (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/29/steve-jobs-tried-unsuccessfully-to-defuse-patent-dispute-with-samsung-in-2010/) that Samsung had agreed to make some concessions to Apple such as the removal of a feature designed to recognize and ignore accidental touch input, but it is unclear what else Samsung might be offering in hopes of convincing Apple to allow it to launch the Galaxy Tab in Australia.

Article Link: Samsung Proposes Deal with Apple for Galaxy Tab Launch in Australia (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/30/samsung-proposes-deal-with-apple-for-galaxy-tab-launch-in-australia/)



arctic
Sep 30, 2011, 08:16 AM
Hope this pulls through. And the 7.7 and Note will have availability soon as well.

KPOM
Sep 30, 2011, 08:16 AM
Perhaps the two sides are realizing that a protracted battle hurts them both. My guess is that Samsung is offering some sort of monetary or cross-licensing deal to drop other litigation. Perhaps they will also strike some type of worldwide deal.

nanotlj
Sep 30, 2011, 08:18 AM
I do not think Apple will hold back this time. It is a case that apple wants to win and makes any copycat think twice in the future.

Number 41
Sep 30, 2011, 08:19 AM
Good to hear. I'd hate to think that Samsung would spend all that time and money developing such a beautiful, completely unique device along with a one-of-a-kind touch interface and intuitive user experience and not be able to sell their device.

:rolleyes:

igazza
Sep 30, 2011, 08:20 AM
I wish they could come to an agreement over everything. :)

entatlrg
Sep 30, 2011, 08:24 AM
Only the guilty try to make concessions.

Samsung is knockoff scrum.

I'll never buy another Samsung product as long as I live.... not a TV, washer, fridge or anything else the thieving company makes.

ziggyonice
Sep 30, 2011, 08:25 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A5313e Safari/7534.48.3)

$$$

That is all.

chagla
Sep 30, 2011, 08:30 AM
Only the guilty try to make concessions.

Samsung is knockoff scrum.

I'll never buy another Samsung product as long as I live.... not a TV, washer, fridge or anything else the thieving company makes.

start by ditching your ipad/iphone. the memory and lcd screens on your beloved gadgets are *probably* made by Samsung.

aduteau
Sep 30, 2011, 08:34 AM
Stick to your guns Apple !!! :cool:

jmpnop
Sep 30, 2011, 08:44 AM
start by ditching your ipad/iphone. the memory and lcd screens on your beloved gadgets are *probably* made by Samsung.

Some think Apple is the ultimate.

mikeoc
Sep 30, 2011, 08:46 AM
start by ditching your ipad/iphone. the memory and lcd screens on your beloved gadgets are *probably* made by Samsung.

Indeed, Samsung are into everything. Not just techy stuff either, they're into everything from building materials, ship building and insurance, to fish farms!

Formul
Sep 30, 2011, 08:47 AM
just another PR stunt from Samsung

crazy4apple
Sep 30, 2011, 08:47 AM
Good to hear. I'd hate to think that Samsung would spend all that time and money developing such a beautiful, completely unique device along with a one-of-a-kind touch interface and intuitive user experience and not be able to sell their device.

:rolleyes:

Please clarify whats Unique about this device? :confused:

its a scopy of the ipad, even samsungs CEO said so, they would wait until Ipad hit the market and then copy it ( not in those exact terminology)

MacsAreBetter\
Sep 30, 2011, 08:49 AM
After reading that Samsung is also arming up on patents, preparing to sue the hell out of Apple for the iPhone 5, I sincerely hope they strike a deal. Samsung can sell their crap-tablet, but agree not to counter-attack the iPhone 5.

But then again, if the Samsung patents are an insignificant threat to Apple, injuction the crap out of them!

crazy4apple
Sep 30, 2011, 08:50 AM
start by ditching your ipad/iphone. the memory and lcd screens on your beloved gadgets are *probably* made by Samsung.

Not assembled only the componants are made by samsung

the design, the software, the feel, which materials are used, the innovation, ETC (need i go on) are all done by :apple:

BlindMellon
Sep 30, 2011, 08:50 AM
The terms of Samsung's proposed deal were not disclosed to the court audience.
Stopped reading right there...

moseleyite
Sep 30, 2011, 08:51 AM
Please clarify whats Unique about this device? :confused:

its a scopy of the ipad, even samsungs CEO said so, they would wait until Ipad hit the market and then copy it ( not in those exact terminology)

He was being sarcastic.

Mr. Gates
Sep 30, 2011, 08:52 AM
Might have been the plan by Apple all along.

Stop the lawsuits in exchange for securing parts at an almost "At Cost" price

Then it would really be Samsung putting their money where their mouth is and Betting the house on their own products.

Just a thought

thewitt
Sep 30, 2011, 08:53 AM
If you do not aggressively protect your IP you lose the right to do so.

Samsung is suing or threatening to sue as posturing to try to get Apple to release it's real innovations under FRAND licensing which would save Samsung millions of dollars in licensing fees.

Is all legal positioning.

-t

BlindMellon
Sep 30, 2011, 08:59 AM
If you do not aggressively protect your IP you lose the right to do so.

Samsung is suing or threatening to sue as posturing to try to get Apple to release it's real innovations under FRAND licensing which would save Samsung millions of dollars in licensing fees.

Is all legal positioning.

-t

I wouldn't be surprised if these two weren't back room dealing the whole time and having drinks afterwords.

Dorje Sylas
Sep 30, 2011, 08:59 AM
I hope it's bigger stickers that say in bold letters "This is not an iPad!" Because, ya know that's what the big problem is.

habubauza
Sep 30, 2011, 09:03 AM
Good to hear. I'd hate to think that Samsung would spend all that time and money developing such a beautiful, completely unique device along with a one-of-a-kind touch interface and intuitive user experience and not be able to sell their device.

:rolleyes:

That's the problem, part of the "time and money developing" was actually Apple's time and money developing that Samsung apparently stole, no doubt using the advantage of being an Apple component supplier to get early peeks at some of Apples technological innovations, only to use it in their own products and claim it as their own.

starvingartist8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:09 AM
ahahah poor old Samsung. They acted so tough claiming they were just tickling Apple and about to unleash hell now they are crying and want peace because they realise they won't make money through christmas..

Let them learn a lesson in honesty.

who would want a galaxy tab over and iPad anyway

rockrigo
Sep 30, 2011, 09:11 AM
Samsung is probably proposing not to sue Apple for the iPhone 5 like they said they would if Apple agrees to a deal

starvingartist8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:11 AM
That's the problem, part of the "time and money developing" was actually Apple's time and money developing that Samsung apparently stole, no doubt using the advantage of being an Apple component supplier to get early peeks at some of Apples technological innovations, only to use it in their own products and claim it as their own.

your point is so damn obvious yet people still downrate you. Goes to show how ****ing stupid people are in this world who cannot see common sense. No wonder apple has to go through this *****

If we are wrong how come Apple is winning court cases. Just goes to show the people who downrate these logical posts are really just trolls/un-evolved in the brain and born without common sense

Tiger8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:13 AM
Only the guilty try to make concessions.

Samsung is knockoff scrum.

I'll never buy another Samsung product as long as I live.... not a TV, washer, fridge or anything else the thieving company makes.

That's a bit harsh and extreme. Suit yourself, I am a huge Apple fan but proud to own many of Samsung products. Samsung is a pioneer in LCD and Plasma TV domain.

97% of cases get settled btw

Mr. Gates
Sep 30, 2011, 09:14 AM
your point is so damn obvious yet people still downrate you. Goes to show how f***king stupid people are in this world who cannot see common sense. No wonder apple has to go through this *****

Oh yes.

Poor , poor Apple ...

Why can't they get a break :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

nextdimension
Sep 30, 2011, 09:14 AM
Cmon Apple go for the jugular! Can't let anyone else use proximity sensors!

starvingartist8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:15 AM
That's a bit harsh and extreme. Suit yourself, I am a huge Apple fan but proud to own many of Samsung products. Samsung is a pioneer in LCD and Plasma TV domain.

97% of cases get settled btw

Samsung is not the only good brand of those products. I am an artist and I sure wouldn't support art theft by funding the people who do it. I'd choose a different just as good product instead.

AAPLDroid
Sep 30, 2011, 09:16 AM
Not assembled only the componants are made by samsung

the design, the software, the feel, which materials are used, the innovation, ETC (need i go on) are all done by :apple:

Do you think those memory and processor chips made by Samsung were just simply pooped out overnight? Here's (http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/08/samsung-behind-25-of-iphone-4-parts/) an infographics of just how much Samsung contributes to your beloved iphone. But do go on with your blind Apple worshiping.

That's the problem, part of the "time and money developing" was actually Apple's time and money developing that Samsung apparently stole, no doubt using the advantage of being an Apple component supplier to get early peeks at some of Apples technological innovations, only to use it in their own products and claim it as their own.

Yes! How dare they copy Apple's use of a rounded rectangle?!

starvingartist8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:17 AM
Do you think those memory and processor chips made by Samsung were just simply pooped out overnight? Here's (http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/08/samsung-behind-25-of-iphone-4-parts/) an infographics of just how much Samsung contributes to your beloved iphone. But do go on with your blind Apple worshiping.



Yes! How dare they copy Apple's use of a rounded rectangle?!

If Samsung changed their logo to an apple would you still support them?

If you were trained in art/design you would know that silhouette is the first thing that reads in an image. That is why the rounded rectangle is IP of Apple. If all products in a catalogue were filled with black everyone would know all the Apple product range because of the silhouette alone. That is why it is called leaching from Apple.

rockrigo
Sep 30, 2011, 09:18 AM
If Samsung changed their logo to an apple would you still support them?

this is such a dumb question

ArtOfWarfare
Sep 30, 2011, 09:18 AM
I'd imagine it's some kind of discount on parts Apple needs to make iPhones, iPads, etc.

Seems like a win to me...

Apple is able to boost their profit margins even higher.

Samsung is allowed to attempt to sell their knock off this holiday (but it'll sell about as well as HP's did when it was first released,) discover they're no good at making them, admit defeat and abandon the market.

And in the event they don't abandon the market, Apple can continue this lawsuit and ban them from the market. (Because all this deal allows Samsung to do is to sell the tablet while they continue to battle in court.)

starvingartist8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:20 AM
I'd imagine it's some kind of discount on parts Apple needs to make iPhones, iPads, etc.

Seems like a win to me...

Apple is able to boost their profit margins even higher.

Samsung is allowed to attempt to sell their knock off this holiday (but it'll sell about as well as HP's did when it was first released,) discover they're no good at making them, admit defeat and abandon the market.

And in the event they don't abandon the market, Apple can continue this lawsuit and ban them from the market. (Because all this deal allows Samsung to do is to sell the tablet while they continue to battle in court.)

Understandable but risky. Apple is already so far ahead of the competition I don't think they want to take any risks closing the gap

AAPLDroid
Sep 30, 2011, 09:20 AM
If Samsung changed their logo to an apple would you still support them?

If you were trained in art/design you would know that silhouette is the first thing that reads in an image. That is why the rounded rectangle is IP of Apple. If all products in a catalogue were filled with black everyone would know all the Apple product range because of the silhouette alone. That is why it is called leaching from Apple.

Nah, that would actually be a blatant violation of a trademark. A fruity trademark.

Are you saying there weren't any rounded rectangular tablets and objects before the ipad?

starvingartist8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:21 AM
Nah, that would actually be a blatant violation of a trademark. A fruity trademark.

answer the 2nd paragraph

Tiger8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:26 AM
Samsung is not the only good brand of those products. I am an artist and I sure wouldn't support art theft by funding the people who do it. I'd choose a different just as good product instead.
Believe me, I am on Apple's side on this one, but I wouldn't go as extreme as calling Samsung theives and boycotting them. Samsung is a huge company, this is like saying I want to give up my US citizenship since the government funds research that I don't approve of, yes, that might be the case, but you can't just blame the entire system for what you see is a fault in part of it. jeez!

And good luck finding 'as good' products. Samsung TVs are unmatched, not even by Sony. That's why they are **still** the number one seller for the 5th year in a row.

starvingartist8
Sep 30, 2011, 09:29 AM
Believe me, I am on Apple's side on this one, but I wouldn't go as extreme as calling Samsung theives and boycotting them. Samsung is a huge company, this is like saying I want to give up my US citizenship since the government funds research that I don't approve of, yes, that might be the case, but you can't just blame the entire system for what you see is a fault in part of it. jeez!

And good luck finding 'as good' products. Samsung TVs are unmatched, not even by Sony. That's why they are **still** the number one seller for the 5th year in a row.

I see your point yes. They are a dishonest company when you look at their history though. Very tight with with the korean government for immunity as well.

adder7712
Sep 30, 2011, 09:29 AM
Gotta love the mindset in this forum.

Apple can do no wrong, right?

benthewraith
Sep 30, 2011, 09:38 AM
If Samsung changed their logo to an apple would you still support them?

If you were trained in art/design you would know that silhouette is the first thing that reads in an image. That is why the rounded rectangle is IP of Apple. If all products in a catalogue were filled with black everyone would know all the Apple product range because of the silhouette alone. That is why it is called leaching from Apple.

Samsung's Galaxy Tab has held up under Intellectual Property suits in the EU. Apple's designs were too minimalist to be protected.

JAT
Sep 30, 2011, 09:41 AM
Yes! How dare they copy Apple's use of a rounded rectangle?!
Can people stop using this impossible phrase? Really annoys anyone that got above a C in math.

And good luck finding 'as good' products. Samsung TVs are unmatched, not even by Sony. That's why they are **still** the number one seller for the 5th year in a row.
Sony? Uh, I think you mean Panasonic. They and Samsung are currently playing leapfrog for best picture. (since Pioneer quit making TVs)
I see your point yes. They are a dishonest company when you look at their history though. Very tight with with the korean government for immunity as well.
You realize that the chaebol [sic], with its govt interaction, is the Korean standard for their country. There are what, five of them? It's how Korea works. I guess if you don't like it, don't go there.
Gotta love the mindset in this forum.

Apple can do no wrong, right?
Can't ****ing read, eh? So far in this thread there are more people disagreeing with Apple than not. Troll.

gnasher729
Sep 30, 2011, 09:42 AM
Samsung's Galaxy Tab has held up under Intellectual Property suits in the EU. Apple's designs were too minimalist to be protected.

Apple applied for an injunction in Germany and in the Netherlands. They won in Germany. Guess which one is the bigger market.


Samsung is probably proposing not to sue Apple for the iPhone 5 like they said they would if Apple agrees to a deal

There's one part of Samsung that tries to sell consumer devices. That part of Samsung is quite happy suing Apple, because Apple is a competitor. And there is one part that sells electronic parts. That part of Samsung is quite upset with the situation, because they are losing an important customer. And there is another part that builds tractors and doesn't care :-)

And what kind of mindless fanboy is voting me down for mentioning that Apple won an injunction in Germany? Seems that some people don't like to hear the truth.

GorgonPhone
Sep 30, 2011, 09:44 AM
all this BS is annoying as hell now.... corporate greed

marksman
Sep 30, 2011, 09:47 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_4 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8K2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Samsung is offering 275 million iPhone screens and 195 million iPad screens for free over the next 10 years.

0815
Sep 30, 2011, 09:47 AM
I just hope they talk also about all the other law suits they fired against each other - at this point, there is no good coming out for any of them if they follow through.

adder7712
Sep 30, 2011, 09:47 AM
Can people stop using this impossible phrase? Really annoys anyone that got above a C in math.

Sony? Uh, I think you mean Panasonic. They and Samsung are currently playing leapfrog for best picture. (since Pioneer quit making TVs)

You realize that the chaebol [sic], with its govt interaction, is the Korean standard for their country. There are what, five of them? It's how Korea works. I guess if you don't like it, don't go there.

Can't ****ing read, eh? So far in this thread there are more people disagreeing with Apple than not. Troll. I'm referring to SOME of the posts in this thread, like the posts saying Samsung is trash and makes trashy products and claiming Samsung makes rip-offs like the obscure Chinese makes that manufacturer "proper" rip-offs.

Samsung has a longer history in mobile phone development than Apple. To people who hate Samsung to the point of wanting the company to liquidate, throw away your iToys as they have Sammy components. ;)

Monkey Butler
Sep 30, 2011, 09:50 AM
who would want a galaxy tab over and iPad anyway

According to Apple, tons of people.
Responding to questions from Justice Bennett about whether Samsung's model could be singled out, given there are other Android-based tablets on the market, Apple's lawyers said it saw the Galaxy Tab 10.1 as the main competitor to the iPad 2.
"This is vastly the one that is going to be targeting the iPad 2," Apple's counsel said.
"This is going to be launched on the market with the velocity of a fire hose and [the Galaxy Tab 10.1 is] going to just come in and take away iPad 2 sales so quickly that by the time we get to final hearing the full impact of the patent infringement will be [felt] to the detriment of Apple and to the benefit of [Samsung]."
Source (http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/tablets/apple-fears-samsung-tablet-will-seduce-customers-court-told-20110929-1kyl5.html#ixzz1ZRnxBmnu)

ArtOfWarfare
Sep 30, 2011, 09:54 AM
Can people stop using this impossible phrase? Really annoys anyone that got above a C in math.

Actually, I'm on a national math team and I take no offense from the term "rounded rectangle". What better name would you propose for the shape? Its a rectangle whose corners have had a fillet applied to them (they've been rounded.) Seems like a pretty apt name for the shape to me...

In fact, if you launch any iWork app and look at the list of available shapes, Apple themselves refers to the shape as exactly that.

vitzr
Sep 30, 2011, 09:58 AM
Let them learn a lesson in honesty.
Surely you jest...

kdarling
Sep 30, 2011, 10:02 AM
That's the problem, part of the "time and money developing" was actually Apple's time and money developing that Samsung apparently stole, no doubt using the advantage of being an Apple component supplier to get early peeks at some of Apples technological innovations, only to use it in their own products and claim it as their own.

For the iPad2, Apple only used Samsung Flash memory and a Samsung LCD timing chip. Samsung also fab'd the CPU.

In this imaginary scenario of yours, what Apple secrets (besides part quantities) did you think Samsung could steal from Apple buying those raw components?

Samsung wouldn't have access to the iPad case, or circuit boards, or LCD, or software, or anything of real design consequence to copy. Everyone knows Apple's penchant for security even within its own campus, much less outside of it. We all saw how surprised Samsung was at the iPad2 thinness when it was finally shown to the public.

CalWizrd
Sep 30, 2011, 10:02 AM
... The world must be a confusing and frustrating place for you...

I would guess that I disagree with virtually everything you post, but I've got to admit... you're a funny guy.

rockrigo
Sep 30, 2011, 10:06 AM
For the iPad2, Apple only used Samsung Flash memory and a Samsung LCD timing chip. Samsung also fab'd the CPU.

In this imaginary scenario of yours, what Apple secrets (besides part quantities) did you think Samsung could steal from Apple buying those raw components?

Samsung wouldn't have access to the iPad case, or circuit boards, or LCD, or software, or anything of real design consequence to copy. Everyone knows Apple's penchant for security.

was asking myself the same question, I used to work for a component supplier and all we got was part numbers and quantity they wanted, never anything showing how/what those components would be used for (unless they willfully told us but I doubt Apple would share all their secrets with Samsung)

TMay
Sep 30, 2011, 10:16 AM
For the iPad2, Apple only used Samsung Flash memory and a Samsung LCD timing chip. Samsung also fab'd the CPU.

In this imaginary scenario of yours, what Apple secrets (besides part quantities) did you think Samsung could steal from Apple buying those raw components?

Samsung wouldn't have access to the iPad case, or circuit boards, or LCD, or software, or anything of real design consequence to copy. Everyone knows Apple's penchant for security even within its own campus, much less outside of it. We all saw how surprised Samsung was at the iPad2 thinness when it was finally shown to the public.

I agree that Samsung had no knowledge of the package, at least until someone at Samsung bought an iPad and did a teardown, which is pretty much standard industry practice.

Or, just go to iFixit and see the photos.

hot spare
Sep 30, 2011, 10:22 AM
Maybe 32nm fabrication process for SoC and 20nm DDR3 RAM...one can only dream. Exynos will be the first SoC to use a 32nm fabrication. Maybe it will be stuffed inside the Nexus Prime.

For people who thinks Samsung is small, they are investing 10billion on these fab.

kdarling
Sep 30, 2011, 10:27 AM
Apple applied for an injunction in Germany and in the Netherlands. They won in Germany. Guess which one is the bigger market.

A few more details:

1) The German court upheld their original automatic preliminary injunction, pending the court case outcome.

2) They based their decision solely on the rounded rectangle EU Design document which predated the iPad and didn't even have a Home button... the exact same EU drawing that the Netherlands ignored as too obvious.

3) They could only legally stop direct sales from Samsung Korea to Germany. Stores are free to buy stock from suppliers outside of Germany.

4) The court also decided they couldn't stop sales in the rest of the EU, which is a bigger market than Germany.

vvswarup
Sep 30, 2011, 10:31 AM
Samsung is probably proposing not to sue Apple for the iPhone 5 like they said they would if Apple agrees to a deal

Samsung is threatening to sue Apple over a piece of vaporware (iPhone 5)? If Samsung were to actually make that kind of a threat, the next question from Apple should be how they know anything about an iPhone 5.

Samsung's mobile division and components division are two separate business units. The components division is the only division within Samsung that ought to know anything about the iPhone 5. If the mobile division knows about the iPhone 5, then something is wrong.

kdarling
Sep 30, 2011, 10:42 AM
Samsung is threatening to sue Apple over a piece of vaporware (iPhone 5)? If Samsung were to actually make that kind of a threat, the next question from Apple should be how they know anything about an iPhone 5.

If Samsung thinks they hold IP on something that Apple has been using in their iPhones so far, then they could very likely threaten the iPhone 5 ahead of time....

... similar to the way Apple did when they sued Samsung in Germany without first seeing the German version of the Tab in person.

(Apple's injunction request states this, saying that since they didn't have access to the real thing, the pictures in their legal documents came from magazines and models sold in other countries.)

So, in a slightly ironic twist, Samsung has begun to copy some of Apple's legal tactics. Attack first, deal with questions later.

TMay
Sep 30, 2011, 10:59 AM
Maybe 32nm fabrication process for SoC and 20nm DDR3 RAM...one can only dream. Exynos will be the first SoC to use a 32nm fabrication. Maybe it will be stuffed inside the Nexus Prime.

For people who thinks Samsung is small, they are investing 10billion on these fab.

TSMC is building the A6 at 28nm and will follow up with the A7 at 20nm, so Apple looks to be in good shape to compete with other ARM variants. Apple is also getting the 3D die stacking process as well.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/15/apple-tabs-tsmc-for-a6-and-a7-processors-for-future-ios-devices/

----------

If Samsung thinks they hold IP on something that Apple has been using in their iPhones so far, then they could very likely threaten the iPhone 5 ahead of time....

... similar to the way Apple did when they sued Samsung in Germany without first seeing the German version of the Tab in person.

(Apple's injunction request states this, saying that since they didn't have access to the real thing, the pictures in their legal documents came from magazines and models sold in other countries.)

So, in a slightly ironic twist, Samsung has begun to copy Apple's legal tactics.
Samsung's IP is almost certainly FRAND. Even Apple has mentioned this. Good luck in getting an injunction on FRAND IP without any serious attempt at negotiation.

kdarling
Sep 30, 2011, 11:26 AM
Samsung's IP is almost certainly FRAND. Even Apple has mentioned this. Good luck in getting an injunction on FRAND IP without any serious attempt at negotiation.

FRAND only applies to some of the patents Samsung is suing over, not all of them.

In the Netherlands court a few days ago, the FRAND exchange went loosely (http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/apple-says-samsung-rigged-the-3g-standards-40758)like this:

Samsung: we are willing to give Apple FRAND terms.
Apple: we've already paid them through Intel's license.
Samsung: we're talking about Infineon chips before Intel bought them in early 2011.
Apple: okay, then we dispute that your terms are FRAND.

Apparently Samsung's made an offer of 2.4% of the chip price per patent, but Apple says that's too much.

In yet one more twist of irony, Apple got wind that Samsung was going to try for a preliminary injunction against them without Apple being present... just as Apple had pulled on Samsung in the first place. So Apple negotiated a deal where they wouldn't do that to each other any more.

jameskatt
Sep 30, 2011, 11:45 AM
Apple's deal to Samsung:

1. Death penalty to all of Samsung's lawyers.
2. 10% royalty on all Android devices.
3. Stop copying Apple. This gives Koreans a bad name.

devinci99
Sep 30, 2011, 11:49 AM
I for one don't like companies borrowing another company's design/work without doing some sort of patent sharing partnership (AKA pay the other company $$$ to use it's patents in your products) --- everyone wins.

I also don't like a company to be completely stingy and not share their patents even when the other is making efforts to pay royalties for it. I love Apple and its products, but it will hurt competition to completely ban Samsung products from customers even if Samsung is willing to make changes, or pay out royalties (like they did to Microsoft).

Copying (without paying) is bad, but not sharing (when the other is willing to pay fairly) is just as bad.

I understand the need for competitive advantages; thats why you let the powers that be to put a fair price on that advantage and have everyone who is wants to copy you and is willing to pay that price. This drives their cost up, while putting cash in your bank, and still help you maintain some advantage.

This also force the other company while in this partnership to come up with other innovative ways to offer better experience while trying to cut cost elsewhere in order to keep prices down to stay within the competition.

Sometimes its cheaper just to buy out a company who holds the design/prior art/patent; while other times its cheaper to just enter a patent sharing partnership. You can always find new innovative ways and designs to cut cost and increase value (to may paying the additional cost) more justified elsewhere.

dethmaShine
Sep 30, 2011, 11:55 AM
FRAND only applies to some of the patents Samsung is suing over, not all of them.

In the Netherlands court a few days ago, the FRAND exchange went loosely (http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/apple-says-samsung-rigged-the-3g-standards-40758)like this:

Samsung: we are willing to give Apple FRAND terms.
Apple: we've already paid them through Intel's license.
Samsung: we're talking about Infineon chips before Intel bought them in early 2011.
Apple: okay, then we dispute that your terms are FRAND.

Apparently Samsung's made an offer of 2.4% of the chip price per patent, but Apple says that's too much.

In yet one more twist of irony, Apple got wind that Samsung was going to try for a preliminary injunction against them without Apple being present... just as Apple had pulled on Samsung in the first place. So Apple negotiated a deal where they wouldn't do that to each other any more.

Please simply answer this one simple question.

Do you side with Samsung on every little thing that has happened in the recent months?

I mean, I don't see a single post of yours which to any extent condemns Samsung of its actions or IP infringement. All you have is something against Apple.

I agree Apple is not innocent; even Apple has made mistakes and probably blunders in the past. But you seem to condemn Apple's every response in every regard; whether Apple sues Samsung, HTC or motorola or either of them sue Apple.

I thought you were unbiased but all your comments have sided with companies against Apple. I am not saying that you need to side with Apple somewhere, but really all you do is censure Apple's approach and decisions but never ever critic the logistics and approach behind Apple's adversaries.

gkpm
Sep 30, 2011, 12:06 PM
Knowing a bit about Korea the deal was probably "let us sell our tablet in Australia and we won't have the South Korean government go and find some silly regulation blocking the sales of the next iPad AND iPhone in Korea..."

Plus we'll make sure that idiotic "iPhone tracking" class action goes away quietly.

Corruption? We've heard of it.

For background google: "Samsung slush funds scandal"

mdriftmeyer
Sep 30, 2011, 12:07 PM
You don't offer a deal unless you know your hand is weak, and the other side knows it as well.

swagi
Sep 30, 2011, 12:27 PM
Please simply answer this one simple question.

Do you side with Samsung on every little thing that has happened in the recent months?

I mean, I don't see a single post of yours which to any extent condemns Samsung of its actions or IP infringement. All you have is something against Apple.

I agree Apple is not innocent; even Apple has made mistakes and probably blunders in the past. But you seem to condemn Apple's every response in every regard; whether Apple sues Samsung, HTC or motorola or either of them sue Apple.

I thought you were unbiased but all your comments have sided with companies against Apple. I am not saying that you need to side with Apple somewhere, but really all you do is censure Apple's approach and decisions but never ever critic the logistics and approach behind Apple's adversaries.

Hello and welcome to Macrumors.

I've been on this forum for ages and I still love and hug all my Mac computers. I have seen Apple going downhill since Leopard on the computer side. I have seen them switching their business tactics. And I've ssen them playing the big bad bully in the mobile business - lesson learnt from the lost PC war.

Nevertheless I find myself very comfortable with the thought that I will happily boycott iOS devices in the future and I want bully Apple to get a bloody nose.

I personally side with Samsung just for the mere fact that the Galaxy SII runs circles around the iPhone and I sure as hell hope that Apple get a taste of their own medicine, when the iPhone5 (you know - the one that obviously is there but is not released) ist just a mere Galaxy SII ripoff (thinner, bigger screen, rectangle home button).

With whom will you side, when iPhone5 looks damn similar to the Galaxy SII (which from the circulating renders is a given)? With copycat Apple or will you pridefully announce that it was always Apple's plan to intoduce a wider and thinner phone with a rectangle home button???

Oletros
Sep 30, 2011, 12:56 PM
Apple applied for an injunction in Germany and in the Netherlands. They won in Germany. Guess which one is the bigger market.


Netherlands, because is the entry point to all Europe and the injuction in Netherland would affected ALL the Europe but Germany

Oletros
Sep 30, 2011, 01:11 PM
its a scopy of the ipad, even samsungs CEO said so, they would wait until Ipad hit the market and then copy it ( not in those exact terminology)

No those terminology and no terminology at all, Samsung presented the Galaxy Tab 10.1 before the iPad 2 and when the iPad 2 was presented they made the Tab slimmer, that was the only change

BlindMellon
Sep 30, 2011, 01:22 PM
Please simply answer this one simple question.

Do you side with Samsung on every little thing that has happened in the recent months?

I mean, I don't see a single post of yours which to any extent condemns Samsung of its actions or IP infringement. All you have is something against Apple.

I agree Apple is not innocent; even Apple has made mistakes and probably blunders in the past. But you seem to condemn Apple's every response in every regard; whether Apple sues Samsung, HTC or motorola or either of them sue Apple.

I thought you were unbiased but all your comments have sided with companies against Apple. I am not saying that you need to side with Apple somewhere, but really all you do is censure Apple's approach and decisions but never ever critic the logistics and approach behind Apple's adversaries.

I find these recent posts by kdarling quite informative. You don't usually get both sides of the story on these forums.

dethmaShine
Sep 30, 2011, 01:34 PM
Hello and welcome to Macrumors.

I've been on this forum for ages and I still love and hug all my Mac computers. I have seen Apple going downhill since Leopard on the computer side. I have seen them switching their business tactics. And I've ssen them playing the big bad bully in the mobile business - lesson learnt from the lost PC war.

Nevertheless I find myself very comfortable with the thought that I will happily boycott iOS devices in the future and I want bully Apple to get a bloody nose.

I personally side with Samsung just for the mere fact that the Galaxy SII runs circles around the iPhone and I sure as hell hope that Apple get a taste of their own medicine, when the iPhone5 (you know - the one that obviously is there but is not released) ist just a mere Galaxy SII ripoff (thinner, bigger screen, rectangle home button).

With whom will you side, when iPhone5 looks damn similar to the Galaxy SII (which from the circulating renders is a given)? With copycat Apple or will you pridefully announce that it was always Apple's plan to intoduce a wider and thinner phone with a rectangle home button???

Good lord, you got nothing from my post.

You can boycott Apple products all you want and show us how much of kid can you be.
I myself used an iPhone back in 2008-09; threw it twice on my wall after the 4.0 update to break into two pieces. Haven't bother an iPhone in the past 2 years. Happily got a DesireHD; it was crap - moved onto NexusS; crap UI and usability; moved on two Mozart7 and I'm happy since. I need not boycott Apple or HTC or any other 'company' for that matter.

Yes, Apple have lost the PC war. Soon they are going to lose the mobile war too. Soon they'll die down and turn to ashes. Sure, you can anticipate that given the current scenario. :rolleyes:

As for the iPhone5, if its got no > 3.5inch screen, I'm out. I'll get a mango phone the next morning. On another note, the prototype/rumoured iPhone5 looks just like a Sams... iPhone4 from the very front. See what did I there?

I am amazed that you can see the (to be) iPhone5 as a SGSII copy but SGSII or Ace not being an iPhone3GS/4 copy. Amazed.

Just to summarise:
iPhone is a copy of itself. I get it mate.

:)

dethmaShine
Sep 30, 2011, 01:52 PM
I for one don't like companies borrowing another company's design/work without doing some sort of patent sharing partnership (AKA pay the other company $$$ to use it's patents in your products) --- everyone wins.

I also don't like a company to be completely stingy and not share their patents even when the other is making efforts to pay royalties for it. I love Apple and its products, but it will hurt competition to completely ban Samsung products from customers even if Samsung is willing to make changes, or pay out royalties (like they did to Microsoft).

Copying (without paying) is bad, but not sharing (when the other is willing to pay fairly) is just as bad.

I understand the need for competitive advantages; thats why you let the powers that be to put a fair price on that advantage and have everyone who is wants to copy you and is willing to pay that price. This drives their cost up, while putting cash in your bank, and still help you maintain some advantage.

This also force the other company while in this partnership to come up with other innovative ways to offer better experience while trying to cut cost elsewhere in order to keep prices down to stay within the competition.

Sometimes its cheaper just to buy out a company who holds the design/prior art/patent; while other times its cheaper to just enter a patent sharing partnership. You can always find new innovative ways and designs to cut cost and increase value (to may paying the additional cost) more justified elsewhere.

Business Philanthropy by devinci99.

Those are very compassionate and generous words. To be honest, business and philanthropy don't go together. I wish they did. I remember some lines out of one of my very favourite songs. Here's it:

In our life there's if
In our beliefs there's lie
In our business there's sin
In our bodies there's die

-- This was my life, Megadeth.


Cheers.

---
Sorry, can some club the last two posts? Thanks. :)

Laird Knox
Sep 30, 2011, 02:00 PM
your point is so damn obvious yet people still downrate you. Goes to show how ****ing stupid people are in this world who cannot see common sense. No wonder apple has to go through this *****

If we are wrong how come Apple is winning court cases. Just goes to show the people who downrate these logical posts are really just trolls/un-evolved in the brain and born without common sense

He probably got down voted because he was responding to a scarcastic post like it was serious.

swagi
Sep 30, 2011, 02:16 PM
<snip>
As for the iPhone5, if its got no > 3.5inch screen, I'm out. I'll get a mango phone the next morning. On another note, the prototype/rumoured iPhone5 looks just like a Sams... iPhone4 from the very front. See what did I there?

I am amazed that you can see the (to be) iPhone5 as a SGSII copy but SGSII or Ace not being an iPhone3GS/4 copy. Amazed.

Just to summarise:
iPhone is a copy of itself. I get it mate.

:)

Yes - good move you made there. Well - in my consideration I personally refrain from the Argument that Samsung "blatanly copied" the iPhone. There are only a few ways to make a touchscreen device and Sammy just went the way the customer voted.

They did an awful job with the F480 (sent that back to my carrier during return period), then came up with stuff like the Jet or the Wave. Those had the mixture of TouchWiz and buttons. Then they relased the Omnia - and one has to admit that the Omia was a nice piece of work.

Nobody accused the Omnia to be an iPhone rip-off yet everything was there. From the grid to Sammy's TouchWiz icons - just everything. Even the Omnia HD, which in some respects (DISPLAY) outshined the iPhone, never faced the stiff upfront legal rage that we are seeing here.

All of a sudden there was the switch to Android and the Galaxy. And then we went into this stupid outrage that we are seeing currently. And this is - IMHO - due to the fact that the Android foundation builds on the same 'ecosystem approach' that Apple uses with iOS. The funny part is - you shouldn't blame Samsung for the design choices, Android made. Otherwise at least be so honest and stop every Android handpiece on the market.

Oh - and glad you vote for Mango. I guess this will be my next choice also. Currently reading the rumors about what Nokia has up their sleeves - and man this sounds tasty. :D

I just got your post wrong as I personally found it a rather personal approach to kdarling. That's all. Sorry for misinterpreting you.

(L)
Sep 30, 2011, 02:20 PM
start by ditching your ipad/iphone. the memory and lcd screens on your beloved gadgets are *probably* made by Samsung.

This post has +18.

Not assembled only the componants are made by samsung

the design, the software, the feel, which materials are used, the innovation, ETC (need i go on) are all done by :apple:

This post has -8.

...Weird, isn't this?

Standards
Consumer perception knockoff < Legally knockoff.

Thus, from a marketing standpoint, Apple has already done the damage. That was probably their main goal in the first place. They want to keep as big a slice as possible of the pie they helped make. After a long legal battle, they might "lose" in court, but it's not like the courts will hand a portion of Apple's piece of the pie to Samsung.

...There are many reasons to be pro-Samsung, legally or otherwise, but in terms of product image, being pro-Samsung would be like cheering for Mr. Bolt after he bolted prematurely.

Anyway, I can't choose between 2 conclusions:

(1) Unbiased people (not Korean or hired by Samsung) are actually really into this patents battle thing even though it's probably not about who wins in court.

(2) The sources of the pro-Samsung/anti-Apple votes have some reason to be biased (e.g., Korean, Samsung-employees, etc).

Of course, I'm not saying all Koreans get overzealous, but China, Japan, and Korea all have their share of people who would do things like +1 anything Samsung/Sony/whatever chinese thing and -1 any 'enemy' thing. Is that what's in play here? Or not?

*LTD*
Sep 30, 2011, 02:43 PM
Apple has ZERO reason to do any kind of deal with Samsung. Apple is confident they can continue to stymie their efforts, and MEANWHILE . . . the iPad will continue to sell like gangbusters and Samsung will be dropped as a supplier.

When you're ahead in the game - technically and on the consumer side - you don't show empathy to competitors.

AppleScruff1
Sep 30, 2011, 02:44 PM
Apple has ZERO reason to do any kind of deal with Samsung. Apple is confident they can continue to stymie their efforts, and MEANWHILE . . . the iPad will continue to sell like gangbusters and Samsung will be dropped as a supplier.

When you're ahead in the game - technically and on the consumer side - you don't show empathy to competitors.

Until the consumer gets tired of it, then it's a big deal.

daizone
Sep 30, 2011, 02:45 PM
I believe that if apples does win that it will definately hurt the consumers' choice of which tablet to buy. I also believe that Samsung started firing back just because of what Apple has done to them as well. If Apple had left Samsung along, I doubt Samsung would have looked for ways to bring Apple to court.

I think this dispute between the two is stupid and that they should just let the devices speak for themselves. Let the competition begin! If the Tab is better than the iPad 2 then Apple should just hurry up and release the iPad 3 to crush the Tab.

AppleScruff1
Sep 30, 2011, 02:49 PM
I believe that if apples does win that it will definately hurt the consumers' choice of which tablet to buy. I also believe that Samsung started firing back just because of what Apple has done to them as well. If Apple had left Samsung along, I doubt Samsung would have looked for ways to bring Apple to court.

I think this dispute between the two is stupid and that they should just let the devices speak for themselves. Let the competition begin! If the Tab is better than the iPad 2 then Apple should just hurry up and release the iPad 3 to crush the Tab.

Apple fears competition, that's why they try to crush all up and coming companies. For some strange reason they question whether their products will sell on their own merit which is ridiculous since they have an excellent product line.

Oletros
Sep 30, 2011, 02:49 PM
This post has +18.



This post has -8.

...Weird, isn't this?

Standards
Consumer perception knockoff < Legally knockoff.

Thus, from a marketing standpoint, Apple has already done the damage. That was probably their main goal in the first place. They want to keep as big a slice as possible of the pie they helped make. After a long legal battle, they might "lose" in court, but it's not like the courts will hand a portion of Apple's piece of the pie to Samsung.

...There are many reasons to be pro-Samsung, legally or otherwise, but in terms of product image, being pro-Samsung would be like cheering for Mr. Bolt after he bolted prematurely.

Anyway, I can't choose between 2 conclusions:

(1) Unbiased people (not Korean or hired by Samsung) are actually really into this patents battle thing even though it's probably not about who wins in court.

(2) The sources of the pro-Samsung/anti-Apple votes have some reason to be biased (e.g., Korean, Samsung-employees, etc).

Of course, I'm not saying all Koreans get overzealous, but China, Japan, and Korea all have their share of people who would do things like +1 anything Samsung/Sony/whatever chinese thing and -1 any 'enemy' thing. Is that what's in play here? Or not?

So, you're unbiased only if you side Apple? If you don't side Apple in everything you're Korean, a Samsung employee or a biased person?

Pot, kettle?

AppleScruff1
Sep 30, 2011, 02:51 PM
So, you're unbiased only if you side Apple? If you don't side Apple in everything you're Korean, a Samsung employee or a biased person?

Pot, kettle?

Bravo!

scottie2345
Sep 30, 2011, 02:51 PM
I cannot believe you guys sometimes, moaning about samsung, next thing you will be complaining that android STOLE pull down notifications:) I hate to to tell you this but android is better than IOS, there are said you can all burst into tears and get very upset:):):)
dont blame samsung remember "good artists copy great artists steal", of course in some folks eyes this doesnt seem to apply unless you Apple
Clip of someone we all know :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Scottie

*LTD*
Sep 30, 2011, 03:16 PM
Until the consumer gets tired of it, then it's a big deal.

Consumer tired of Apple?

Not on this planet. Joe Consumer doesn't even know about these legal issues. Meanwhile he's waiting for new Apple gear, wallet open.

Apple can, within the allowance of the law (everything they're doing is perfectly legal and everyone knows this), run as roughshod as they like over the competition and the end result will be: more record sales.

----------

Apple fears competition, that uses their designs and IP with impunity that's why they try to crush all up and coming companies who use Apple's design and IP with impunity

Fixed to reflect reality. Steve Jobs and Tim Cook warned everyone long ago to tread very carefully in terms of IP. They're now putting teeth behind that warning. Apple has already gotten injunctions against Samsung, and now Samsung is buckling from that pressure, including the fallout from Apple dumping them. Seems Apple has a case. Do you see any injunctions against Apple gear? Do you see any requirement that Apple must hand over their goods to Samsung or anyone else for examination? I certainly don't.

We'll see who makes the cut in the court system and who has to head back to the drawing-board. Apple is perfectly ready to deal with whatever the outcome may be - mostly because the consumer in any case is squarely behind Apple. That is all that is needed, and Apple knows how to maintain their robust consumer base and expand it.

Is the competition ready? In 2011 the battle extends from the stock shelves into the courts. Everyone has to fess up and deal with this reality. There is no changing it.

accessoriesguy
Sep 30, 2011, 05:36 PM
I was wondering why Samsung was still trying to release their tablet, for a while so many new tablets were being released as well as this one having aged, I thought it would still matter but not be as important, but I forgot that the holiday season is coming up which explains why they still want in on the Australian market.

AppleScruff1
Sep 30, 2011, 05:50 PM
Consumer tired of Apple?

Not on this planet. Joe Consumer doesn't even know about these legal issues. Meanwhile he's waiting for new Apple gear, wallet open.

Apple can, within the allowance of the law (everything they're doing is perfectly legal and everyone knows this), run as roughshod as they like over the competition and the end result will be: more record sales.

----------



Fixed to reflect reality. Steve Jobs and Tim Cook warned everyone long ago to tread very carefully in terms of IP. They're now putting teeth behind that warning. Apple has already gotten injunctions against Samsung, and now Samsung is buckling from that pressure, including the fallout from Apple dumping them. Seems Apple has a case. Do you see any injunctions against Apple gear? Do you see any requirement that Apple must hand over their goods to Samsung or anyone else for examination? I certainly don't.

We'll see who makes the cut in the court system and who has to head back to the drawing-board. Apple is perfectly ready to deal with whatever the outcome may be - mostly because the consumer in any case is squarely behind Apple. That is all that is needed, and Apple knows how to maintain their robust consumer base and expand it.

Is the competition ready? In 2011 the battle extends from the stock shelves into the courts. Everyone has to fess up and deal with this reality. There is no changing it.

None are so blind as those who will not see. Keep wearing those Apple glasses.

*LTD*
Sep 30, 2011, 06:11 PM
None are so blind as those who will not see. Keep wearing those Apple glasses.

I can, in fact, only comment on what I see. And what I see is a serious case of Apple-mania, worldwide. That is, firmly entrenched Apple-mania. Apple's legitimate use of equally legitimate court mechanisms has little to no bearing on that Apple-mania - which at times rises to a fevered pitch, even among the most jaded around here.

I remember Apple going after Creative quite aggressively years ago, and we were having nearly the very same conversation back then as we are now. And if I am not mistaken, Apple went after other mp3-player purveyors as well. The result: continued, unabated demand for more Apple gear. And this was years ago.

He who captures consumer hearts and minds gets to set the agenda and compel others to follow along, by hook or by crook. It's a by-product of winning over the consumer. As long as Apple keeps creating and designing in their own special way, and as long as they can achieve such remarkable differentiation from the also-rans, this situation for all intents and purposes can go on for years to come, if not indefinitely.

At this time there is simply no way of knowing with any certainty when this Apple-mania will come to an end. All that we *do* know, is that it has a great deal of momentum and staying-power.

AppleScruff1
Sep 30, 2011, 06:16 PM
I can, in fact, only comment on what I see. And what I see is a serious case of Apple-mania, worldwide. Apple's legitimate use of equally legitimate court mechanisms has little to no bearing on that Apple-mania - which at times rises to a fevered pitch, even among the most jaded around here.

I remember Apple going after Creative quite aggressively years ago, and we were having nearly the very same conversation back then as we are now. And if I am not mistaken, Apple went after other mp3-player purveyors as well. The result: continued, unabated demand for more Apple gear. And this was years ago.

He who captures consumer hearts and minds gets to set the agenda and compel others to follow along, by hook or by crook. It's a by-product of winning over the consumer. As long as Apple keeps creating and designing in their own special way, and as long as they can achieve such remarkable differentiation from the also-rans, this situation for all intents and purposes can go on for years to come, if not indefinitely.

At this time there is simply no way of knowing with any certainty when this Apple-mania will come to an end. All that we *do* know, is that it has a great deal of momentum and staying-power.

Your only positve comments are about Apple and you come across as quite hypocritical most of the time. It's your life, enjoy it.

chagla
Sep 30, 2011, 10:08 PM
...

I remember Apple going after Creative quite aggressively years ago, and we were having nearly the very same conversation back then as we are now. And if I am not mistaken, Apple went after other mp3-player purveyors as well. The result: continued, unabated demand for more Apple gear. And this was years ago.

....

just a reminder about Creative. :)

Apple pays Creative $100 million in iPod-related lawsuit (http://www.mactech.com/content/apple-pays-creative-100-million-ipod-related-lawsuit)

even though better products were (and are) still available for cheaper, consumers preferred locked-in, simplified iProducts. that's why very high quality products from Cowon, IRiver remained as small players.

stevensr123
Sep 30, 2011, 10:26 PM
Please clarify whats Unique about this device? :confused:

its a scopy of the ipad, even samsungs CEO said so, they would wait until Ipad hit the market and then copy it ( not in those exact terminology)

How the hell is it a copy of the iPad? The software doesn't even look the same, the dimensions are not the same, the colour apart from the bezel (which tablet's have been using years before the iPad) do not look the same.

http://www.techworld.com.au/gim/id/41147/res/21

Anyone that get's that mixed up with an iPad, is about as useful as an ashtray on a motor bike.

I really hope samsung stops the iPhone 5 from selling, to give people like you a taste of their own medicine. But then again, i don't like anything about this battle apple and samsung are in, it's pathetic, bad for consumers, and basically results in nothing but lawyers getting a nice bit of green in their pockets.

andy721
Sep 30, 2011, 10:28 PM
So basically what this means is, stop manufacturing and selling ******* tablets Samsung.

- You'll never have such a AppStore with it's limitless apps & games.

- You can't seem to fix any lag issue not just the Android operating
system but others as well in the HTC and knock off wannabe OS's

- Stop embarrassing yourselves with patents & wasting our time, you
can't dent the Apple market.

- Take notes but it's really to late to come up with something in the tablet
field, I'd suggest sticking with Televisions and BlueRay Players.

- This link will help with taking notes, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad2 or
just buy an iPad & call it a day.

GoodDay Samsung. It's been real but not real enough. Karma's a bitch.:rolleyes:

stevensr123
Sep 30, 2011, 10:32 PM
So basically what this means is, stop manufacturing and selling ******* tablets Samsung.

- You'll never have such a AppStore with it's limitless apps & games.

- You can't seem to fix any lag issue not just the Android operating
system but others as well in the HTC and knock off wannabe OS's

- Stop embarrassing yourselves with patents & wasting our time, you
can't dent the Apple market.

- Take notes but it's really to late to come up with something in the tablet
field, I'd suggest sticking with Televisions and BlueRay Players.

- This link will help with taking notes, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad2 or
just buy an iPad & call it a day.

GoodDay Samsung. It's been real but not real enough. Karma's a bitch.:rolleyes:

Samsung doesn't to have an app store like apple's, they have the android market for that.


My galaxy s2 is faster than my iPhone 4, and has never suffered from any lag.


Apple is the one embarrassing themselves with the patents, they started this nonsense.


How is it too late to come up with a good tablet, when the tablet "market" is still new and improving? It's a baby compared to the mobile "market", and their is still a lot of "movement" to be made.

divinox
Oct 1, 2011, 04:30 AM
On my flight today to athens i saw something that could help resolve this whole debate regarding Samsung copying Apple design. What i saw was yet another one of those "louis vuitton"-lookalikes. Not a fake one, but one drawing on its design language. In short, for those who know bout their trademark design, they replaced the traditional LV signature charms to other, generic, ones. Cant seem to find a pic. atm, but im sure most of you know what i am talking about.

I'd say that these bags on the "copy-continuum" are far worse than the galaxy pad. Even so, i think most people agree that they are in their right of selling these bags. The bags are not intended to confuse the costumer - no one thinks its a LV-bag. The bags are not intended to be fakes - they are clearly different. What they've done is take a popular design, alter it, and make their own product. Cheap one might think, but entirely within reason according to most.

Ironically, however, while this seems self-evident to the majority of consumers when it comes to clothes and such, an awful lot of people (albeit hardly sampled randomly i guess) seem to be very upset in this case. This is quite strange, as unlike the bag, the technical artefact in question has a whole other dimension in which it can differentiate (and, in this dimension the pad and the tab are clearly distinct).

Of course Apple in many ways have inspired the designs of others. They are however, just like the the bag in my example (actually way less), not fakes, nor copies.

adder7712
Oct 1, 2011, 04:39 AM
So basically what this means is, stop manufacturing and selling ******* tablets Samsung.

- You'll never have such a AppStore with it's limitless apps & games.

- You can't seem to fix any lag issue not just the Android operating
system but others as well in the HTC and knock off wannabe OS's

- Stop embarrassing yourselves with patents & wasting our time, you
can't dent the Apple market.
Looks like you have never used an Android device. Perhaps you didn't bother to because you like staying inside the :apple: brick wall.

And, it's wrong to give consumers more choices? Isn't that what drives the electronics industry? I'm an Apple fan, but I tend to believe the Tab is more attractive than the iPad. I like iOS but I prefer Android because it's more open and apps can do more on the phone than iOS apps.

Many popular iOS games have their Android equivalents and some are completely free (e.g Angry Birds is free on Android) but with the inclusion of ads. But hey, at least they're free.

Calling Android a rip-off is too far. Guess iOS ripped off Android's notification system, but it's Apple so they do no wrong. :) (inb4cydia).

I know why people seem to detest Apple fans.

gnasher729
Oct 1, 2011, 10:52 AM
Netherlands, because is the entry point to all Europe and the injuction in Netherland would affected ALL the Europe but Germany

Wrong. Apple filed for an injunction in Düsseldorf under the wrong assumption that the court was responsible for all of Europe except the Netherlands, and in the Netherlands to cover the one whole. Turned out that Apple (and the court in Düsseldorf) were wrong, and that court could only decide for Germany. The Dutch court only speaks for the Netherlands. In the rest of Europe, there was no valid attempt at an injunction, and therefore no decision for or against either Apple or Samsung.


And, it's wrong to give consumers more choices? Isn't that what drives the electronics industry? I'm an Apple fan, but I tend to believe the Tab is more attractive than the iPad. I like iOS but I prefer Android because it's more open and apps can do more on the phone than iOS apps.

I'd follow Neelie Kroes here: The consumer is _not_ helped if businesses compete by ripping of their competitors. Because someone has to start with innovation, and if innovative companies, like Apple, are not protected by the laws and can be ripped off, then they will stop innovating and the consumer loses out. The outer design of the Samsung tablet is a rip-off of the iPad, and you can just look at Sony or Toshiba to see that these companies can innovate if they try. Why does Samsung refuse to?

divinox
Oct 1, 2011, 11:35 AM
Wrong. Apple filed for an injunction in Düsseldorf under the wrong assumption that the court was responsible for all of Europe except the Netherlands, and in the Netherlands to cover the one whole. Turned out that Apple (and the court in Düsseldorf) were wrong, and that court could only decide for Germany. The Dutch court only speaks for the Netherlands. In the rest of Europe, there was no valid attempt at an injunction, and therefore no decision for or against either Apple or Samsung.




I'd follow Neelie Kroes here: The consumer is _not_ helped if businesses compete by ripping of their competitors. Because someone has to start with innovation, and if innovative companies, like Apple, are not protected by the laws and can be ripped off, then they will stop innovating and the consumer loses out. The outer design of the Samsung tablet is a rip-off of the iPad, and you can just look at Sony or Toshiba to see that these companies can innovate if they try. Why does Samsung refuse to?

Doubt Neelie Kroes would ever say that there should only be market-leaders either though. In every market there are leaders and followers. This is beneficiary to not only the consumer, but the society at large.

p.s. please stop taking about "start innovating", like the ipad has innovative design. it hasnt. not even nearly. you're just making my head hurt splurting out nonsense like that.

adder7712
Oct 1, 2011, 12:19 PM
The iPad looks simple, elegant, modern and feels well-built (my parents have an iPad so I know what I'm talking about) and I can't deny that.

Apple knows how to design aesthetics but I wouldn't call the iPad's design innovative (rectangular slab with a screen).

The unibody aluminium notebooks (owner of one too) are innovative however.

divinox
Oct 1, 2011, 01:45 PM
The iPad looks simple, elegant, modern and feels well-built (my parents have an iPad so I know what I'm talking about) and I can't deny that.

Apple knows how to design aesthetics but I wouldn't call the iPad's design innovative (rectangular slab with a screen).

The unibody aluminium notebooks (owner of one too) are innovative however.

Out of curiosity, why so?

Oletros
Oct 1, 2011, 03:41 PM
Wrong. Apple filed for an injunction in Düsseldorf under the wrong assumption that the court was responsible for all of Europe except the Netherlands, and in the Netherlands to cover the one whole. Turned out that Apple (and the court in Düsseldorf) were wrong, and that court could only decide for Germany. The Dutch court only speaks for the Netherlands. In the rest of Europe, there was no valid attempt at an injunction, and therefore no decision for or against either Apple or Samsun

Mmm, no, the injuction in Netherland cover all Europe countries, the problem for Apple is that they didn't did all the bureaucracy in all the countries

KingCrimson
Oct 1, 2011, 03:57 PM
So in this battle of the Titans - who will win? Or do we all lose and Microsoft/Amazon laugh all the way to the bank.

*LTD*
Oct 2, 2011, 09:40 AM
even though better products were (and are) still available for cheaper, consumers preferred locked-in, simplified iProducts.

That's what made and still makes "iProducts" superior. User Experience.

Ricezilla
Oct 2, 2011, 03:59 PM
Only the guilty try to make concessions.

Samsung is knockoff scrum.

I'll never buy another Samsung product as long as I live.... not a TV, washer, fridge or anything else the thieving company makes.

So when are you gonna get rid of your iphone and ipad? Guess who makes the screen? You guess it.

KingCrimson
Oct 2, 2011, 04:00 PM
So when are you gonna get rid of your iphone and ipad? Guess who makes the screen? You guess it.

I wonder how many iDummies know that Samsung components make up like 70% of their iToys. They remind me of the cartoon bear in the "HTC EVO vs iPhone" skit.

vrDrew
Oct 2, 2011, 06:08 PM
I wonder how many iDummies know that Samsung components make up like 70% of their iToys

In 2010, Samsung-sourced components made up an estimated 26% of the iPhone 4's BOM cost (http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4-Carries-Bill-of-Materials-of-187-51-According-to-iSuppli.aspx). The percentage is similar for the iPad (http://www.isuppli.com/PublishingImages/Press%20Releases/2011-03-12_iPad2_BOM.png).

That was before the Apple/Samsung patent fight escalated. I'd imagine the percentages are lower today.

LG, by the way, is usually cited as the primary screen supplier, although that too may have changed as of late, although for different reasons.

KingCrimson
Oct 2, 2011, 06:25 PM
In 2010, Samsung-sourced components made up an estimated 26% of the iPhone 4's BOM cost (http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4-Carries-Bill-of-Materials-of-187-51-According-to-iSuppli.aspx). The percentage is similar for the iPad (http://www.isuppli.com/PublishingImages/Press%20Releases/2011-03-12_iPad2_BOM.png).

That was before the Apple/Samsung patent fight escalated. I'd imagine the percentages are lower today.

LG, by the way, is usually cited as the primary screen supplier, although that too may have changed as of late, although for different reasons.

Yup, pretty soon Apple will be divested of all dealings with Samsung. Then the war will really be on.

ZipZapRap
Oct 3, 2011, 11:47 PM
who would want a galaxy tab over and iPad anyway

Having played with both, I would if forced to choose.

But I'm waiting for Windows 8 :)