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View Full Version : H.264 a POS or Awesome




srdashiki
May 4, 2005, 10:30 AM
I found this interesting...

The processor power required by the new MPEG4-10 algorithm is an order of magnitude greater than the older MPEG4-2 algorithm. Using a 2Ghz Pentium 4 with 768MB RAM, encoding an 8 second sequence using the Microsoft MPEG4-2 encoder took under 60 seconds. Encoding the same sequence using the reference MPEG4-10 encoder took two hours. Note that the reference MPEG4-10 encoder is a proof of concept and is not yet optimized.

NOT on a G5 and certainly obviously a tiny bit flawed, but cmon now even with a Dual 2.7Ghz G5 i think this new codec will take WAAAAY to long compared to my MPEG2 encoding times.

why is it people are so happy when we move forward in technology but backwards in workflow...



snkTab
May 4, 2005, 11:12 AM
Well there are a lot of codecs out there that sacrafice either size or quality, I for one am happy this one that sacrafices something else.

jeremy.king
May 4, 2005, 12:01 PM
Have you seen the end result? Stunning quality even on my DP 867 with a CRT.

daveL
May 4, 2005, 12:11 PM
There are a few other threads already on this topic. You might want to read them. They address your question quite thoroughly.

ReanimationLP
May 9, 2005, 01:06 AM
Trust me, this is FAR from a POS. I went to the Apple Store and actually saw them take it and fill the 30" display up with it, and I did not see a single bit of pixelation.

snkTab
May 9, 2005, 10:54 PM
I think going back to the original question. 99.9% of the population doesn't care about the encoding time. Also, encoding is a one time deal, while streaming/transmitting is a multiple time deal.

And sure we are going forward in technology, but are we really going backwards in workflow (assuming this means time it takes to finish this task.) Say it took 2 days to do a 320x240 video that 5 years ago that now takes a few hours. Is it bad that in 2 days when can encode a very excellent HD video. And soon, HD video will be encoded in hours, while SUHD-3D(Super Ultra High Definition, 3D) will take 2 days to encode. Mearly, workflow is adjusting to the amount of resources that are availible to it to create better and better quality

Phat_Pat
May 10, 2005, 12:37 AM
The end result is always what your looking for. If its gunna take 8 hours start it before you go to bed and get it when u wake up...... its wroth it.

sorryiwasdreami
May 10, 2005, 12:56 AM
I just viewed the NASA space shuttle (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/hdgallery/nasaspaceshuttle.html) HD sample full screen on my G5 and I could swear it looks like I'm watching a DVD.

It is very, very good. The color is awesome as well as the smoothness, clarity, and depth.

I am blown away.

Lacero
May 10, 2005, 01:23 AM
Normally, Apple releases POS encoders for any of their codecs. They refine and improve it over time, so I think the same will happen with H.264.

History can be our guide.

QT 4 DV codec = terrible. QT 5 introduced a vastly superior DV codec.

MPEG-4 @2 = terrible. Still terrible today, just abandoned for MPEG4-10.

MPEG2 = terrible. MPEG2 from Compressor vastly improved, with new VBR options.

Pixlet = terrible. Have no idea what's up with that format.

PhotoJPEG 2000 = terribly slow. Still waiting for an update for speed optimizations.

Apple Intermediate Codec = terrible. No suitable at all for production work.

HDV = unknown at this time. Prediction? Terrible also.

H.264 = terribly slow. Should improve with next .1 release of QT.

Hunts121
May 10, 2005, 01:30 AM
I just viewed the NASA space shuttle (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/hdgallery/nasaspaceshuttle.html) HD sample full screen on my G5 and I could swear it looks like I'm watching a DVD.

It is very, very good. The color is awesome as well as the smoothness, clarity, and depth.

I am blown away.


See that clip worked perfectly on my PowerBook, yet some of the movie trailers were awful (encoded at the sem resoultion too). What gives?

isgoed
May 10, 2005, 02:35 AM
Normally, Apple releases POS encoders for any of their codecs. They refine and improve it over time, so I think the same will happen with H.264.

History can be our guide.

QT 4 DV codec = terrible. QT 5 introduced a vastly superior DV codec.

MPEG-4 @2 = terrible. Still terrible today, just abandoned for MPEG4-10.

MPEG2 = terrible. MPEG2 from Compressor vastly improved, with new VBR options.

Pixlet = terrible. Have no idea what's up with that format.

PhotoJPEG 2000 = terribly slow. Still waiting for an update for speed optimizations.

Apple Intermediate Codec = terrible. No suitable at all for production work.

HDV = unknown at this time. Prediction? Terrible also.

H.264 = terribly slow. Should improve with next .1 release of QT.
I don't see how history is our guide in the examples you state. According to you they are all terrible, except the MPEG2, which is basic DVD encoding, so not very spectacular.

rendezvouscp
May 10, 2005, 04:13 PM
Lacero, Pixlet was done incredibly well by Apple, and the only thing about Pixlet is that it is many times the file size of a comparable-in-quality h.264 file. I think that the only problem with Pixlet is that it uses way too much space, even with the quality.

H.264 is an awesome codec. I think that Apple got h.264 right, although it's too bad that it takes so friggin' long to encode, even on the world's fastest computers. Price of progress though, eh?
-Chase

killmoms
May 11, 2005, 10:36 AM
Lacero, Pixlet was done incredibly well by Apple, and the only thing about Pixlet is that it is many times the file size of a comparable-in-quality h.264 file. I think that the only problem with Pixlet is that it uses way too much space, even with the quality.
That's because Pixlet isn't a distribution format, it's a format designed to get HD video previews to play on lower-end hardware. Space isn't a concern.

stcanard
May 11, 2005, 10:54 AM
H.264 is an awesome codec. I think that Apple got h.264 right, although it's too bad that it takes so friggin' long to encode, even on the world's fastest computers. Price of progress though, eh?
-Chase

Actually, I think that too many people are concentrating on the HD aspects of this codec (rightly so, because that's what Apple is pushing in their press).

I think the true revolution is shown in their streaming example:

http://apple.com/macosx/cnbc

Non-blocky, 640x480 video streamed down my internet connection faster than I'm playing it, and no dropped frames on my powerbook.

There's the (short-term) revolution.