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View Full Version : I bet Dropbox threw a party!




w00tini
Oct 13, 2011, 07:32 AM
Obviously iCloud is not the storage service many of us wanted... a fully integrated 'Dropbox-like' iOS experience.

I'm not saying the way they're using iCloud for iWork on iOS is bad, I guess I was just thinking they'd allow more drag and drop storage in iCloud.

Oh well, as long as Dropbox keeps developing I'll be happy using the two services.



GoCubsGo
Oct 13, 2011, 07:33 AM
Could you elaborate for those of us who have not really used iCloud yet? How is it not the experience that drop box is?

marc11
Oct 13, 2011, 07:43 AM
Obviously iCloud is not the storage service many of us wanted... a fully integrated 'Dropbox-like' iOS experience.

I'm not saying the way they're using iCloud for iWork on iOS is bad, I guess I was just thinking they'd allow more drag and drop storage in iCloud.

Oh well, as long as Dropbox keeps developing I'll be happy using the two services.

iCloud was never promised to be a storage venue like DropBox, never once, it was made very clear it was never a storage location like iDisk. Through the countless posts here as the beta was taking place, it was reiterated time and time again that iCloud was not a storage location for the user to access and place files.....So I am sure DropBox didn't throw a party. Now someone might be able to write an app to work like DropBox that can store data in iCloud, but how much data and if that data can be generic or has to be app specific is unknown to me, but my guess tells me each app can access and store its own data in iCloud and not sync other apps or system data to iCloud.

Oh and I have no idea what you mean by "a fully integrated 'Dropbox-like' iOS experience" what does that mean?

Solowalker
Oct 13, 2011, 07:48 AM
Steve Jobs said that when people think of the cloud, they think it's just a big hard drive in the sky, but Apple didn't want to do it that way. As per Steve's usual, they tried to re-imagine it. So you don't have a 5 GB drive you can put stuff on when using your computer and then be able to access it from the web and/or your iDevice.

Instead, it's a service developers use and need to program into their apps, which is why there's been a mass of iOS 5 updates for apps (only some are using iCloud, though). It's kind of like a replacement for the file system on your device; instead of saving to a drive on your phone, you're saving it to the cloud which in turn allows you to access it elsewhere like on another device. But since iOS isn't used as a traditional computer, it's not accessed like a traditional computer. You don't manually manage it (so no drag and drop files into a drive), apps manage it for you. Just tell an app to save whatever to iCloud and it does. The file is saved, backed up, and synced all at once.

So it's similar to DropBox, but simultaneously more complex on the back end but more–some would say overly so–simplified on the front end. It's Steve's way of trying to obscure away the file system entirely since that really is people's biggest hurdle to using a computer, which I'm saying from personal experience having several years as a personal computer instructor to individuals and not just saying it because he said it.

Not sure if that helps any...

MacLDN
Oct 13, 2011, 07:57 AM
Hmm I can see both sides of the coin, however a DropBox style service would have been great!

marc11
Oct 13, 2011, 07:59 AM
Hmm I can see both sides of the coin, however a DropBox style service would have been great!

It would have been and I was sad to see iDisk go, but Apple never once said they were giving us a new iDisk, they clearly said iDisk was history for now. So not sure where any expectations would have come from.

marc11
Oct 13, 2011, 08:00 AM
I've recently bought an iPad and I need a good app that can edit Excel apps directly from Dropbox.

Numbers.

MacLDN
Oct 13, 2011, 08:08 AM
It would have been and I was sad to see iDisk go, but Apple never once said they were giving us a new iDisk, they clearly said iDisk was history for now. So not sure where any expectations would have come from.

I don't know where the expectations came from, I think people hear 5GB of storage and get blinded by that fact and stop listening maybe...

marc11
Oct 13, 2011, 05:01 PM
Numbers.

Love the negative ding from someone when I suggested Numbers as an iPad app that can open Excel files stored on DropBox....and yet the brave sole doesn't post why that is wrong or an alternative....TOOL.

E3BK
Oct 13, 2011, 05:11 PM
I went with SugarSync to replace iDisk. Dropbox is fine if you have very little or a whole lot of data. There's no option between the free 2GB account and 50GB, which is way too much for me and most people.

Dropbox has failed to implement a better pricing structure and better features and you can't ask me to pay a premium for that.

While I was testing it, I found out that you can't share folders within a folder if you have the higher folder already shared. (Did that make sense?) Plus, I didn't like having all the files be local on all machines.

SugarSync has a lot more options on the storage size, devices to sync, true cloud access via a file manager. Plus, if you sign up now for the 5GB free account, it will give you an offer to have your 1st year at 50% off. So I got 30GB for $25.

No, I don't work for the company but I like to sing the praises of good products.

/my $.02

LapsangSouchong
Oct 13, 2011, 05:21 PM
Ha. I was just thinking that. I've been stalling in upgrading my dropbox and making it more of a back/archive in addition to some short term storage. But now that I've played around with iCloud, I think I'll leave IT at 5GB and pay dropbox instead.

karansaraf
Oct 13, 2011, 05:31 PM
I thought iCloud was meant to back up your documents? Does that not mean your documents folder? If so, then surely you can just drag stuff into that folder and it will be backed up?

I haven't been able to use it properly yet because ... http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=13594194#post13594194

Weaselboy
Oct 13, 2011, 05:48 PM
There is an iCloud API, so hypothetically a dev. could make an app. that allows file storage there and has functionality similar to Dropbox.

heydrew
Oct 13, 2011, 06:19 PM
I think the problem is expectations and clarity. I'm a rather advanced Apple user. I watch the Keynotes. I don't download developer tools or play around in beta, but I'm almost always the first to grab an update and mess around.

A day later, I honestly still don't understand the 'documents' part of iCloud.

What I want, simply, is to have my documents sync between my home computer, my work computer, my desktop, laptop, iPad, etc, so that any change I make on each device pushes the changes to all the devices. And I want a master copy in 'the cloud' so that if, for some absurd reason, my house, office, and every iDevice is consumed by a black hole I can grab a new laptop and have my documents.

Drop box does this with symlinks or whatever they're called. I'm still confused whether iCloud does this, if I've missed turning some magic button or or what.

hitekalex
Oct 13, 2011, 06:21 PM
I thought iCloud was meant to back up your documents? Does that not mean your documents folder? If so, then surely you can just drag stuff into that folder and it will be backed up?

No

vitzr
Oct 13, 2011, 06:24 PM
I haven't tried iCloud so I will not judge.

What I do know is that Dropbox has served me very well for a few years and I'm not about to change. It fits my needs perfectly.

Using Macs, PC's, Androids, and iPhones (yes plural) I have no use for a proprietary system that will not interface in the exact same way with all devices.

Dropbox does this very well.

If Apple is interested in achieving the same success with iCloud as their other products, I do think that at some point they may open it up so everyone like myself will find it useful.

Apple is very smart. Time will tell.

unkn0wnsoldier
Oct 13, 2011, 06:31 PM
I don't have Pages on mac, but I do on iOS. When I created a new doc on my ipad, it immediately showed up on icloud.com. Maybe if I also had the mac version of Pages, I'd be able to directly access my new doc from there. The only way that I can edit the icloud Pages doc is to go to icloud.com and download the doc to my computer. Can anyone confirm that the mac Pages can see those documents directly on icloud?

Weaselboy
Oct 13, 2011, 06:36 PM
I don't have Pages on mac, but I do on iOS. When I created a new doc on my ipad, it immediately showed up on icloud.com. Maybe if I also had the mac version of Pages, I'd be able to directly access my new doc from there. The only way that I can edit the icloud Pages doc is to go to icloud.com and download the doc to my computer. Can anyone confirm that the mac Pages can see those documents directly on icloud?

I have Pages on iPad and Mac and have played with this a little. If you create a doc on the iPad it is saved to iCloud and you can go to iCloud.com and see/DL that doc. You can then make changes and upload back to iCloud.com using the iCloud.com interface... it is not at this point integrated in any way with the Mac version of Pages. At this point I see it being of very limited value.

unkn0wnsoldier
Oct 13, 2011, 06:44 PM
I have Pages on iPad and Mac and have played with this a little. If you create a doc on the iPad it is saved to iCloud and you can go to iCloud.com and see/DL that doc. You can then make changes and upload back to iCloud.com using the iCloud.com interface... it is not at this point integrated in any way with the Mac version of Pages. At this point I see it being of very limited value.

If that's the case, then I agree with you. I envisioned a system in which what you created on one would show automagically on the other. The uploading and downloading is not seamless at all.

LapsangSouchong
Oct 13, 2011, 06:57 PM
I have Pages on iPad and Mac and have played with this a little. If you create a doc on the iPad it is saved to iCloud and you can go to iCloud.com and see/DL that doc. You can then make changes and upload back to iCloud.com using the iCloud.com interface... it is not at this point integrated in any way with the Mac version of Pages. At this point I see it being of very limited value.
I have iWork on every device I own. At this point, I can't get it to cooperate at all.:)
Here's what I see when I click on the iWork part of iCloud... everyone?
(I have iWork on all my devices, updated. Ready to go.

http://i54.tinypic.com/23kstih.jpg

LapsangSouchong
Oct 13, 2011, 07:08 PM
I think the problem is expectations and clarity. I'm a rather advanced Apple user. I watch the Keynotes. I don't download developer tools or play around in beta, but I'm almost always the first to grab an update and mess around.

A day later, I honestly still don't understand the 'documents' part of iCloud.

What I want, simply, is to have my documents sync between my home computer, my work computer, my desktop, laptop, iPad, etc, so that any change I make on each device pushes the changes to all the devices. And I want a master copy in 'the cloud' so that if, for some absurd reason, my house, office, and every iDevice is consumed by a black hole I can grab a new laptop and have my documents.

Drop box does this with symlinks or whatever they're called. I'm still confused whether iCloud does this, if I've missed turning some magic button or or what.
This pretty much sums it up. the symlinks make it happen. Easily. And yes, this is what I was hoping for from iCloud.

Solowalker
Oct 14, 2011, 01:27 AM
As has been mentioned, developers can add iCloud support into their apps with APIs. We'll see how this plays out. My personal opinion is Apple has big plans for this but is starting out slow. I think it would be trivial for them to add back in the different sync features of OS X using iCloud, even iDisk. The "just download your docs from the web" thing is too clumsy and not elegant; I'm sure Apple knows this. There's most likely a new iWork right around the corner with iCloud built in but iWork for iOS was just deemed more important for launch.

I think that's the whole point of the Documents sync to the Mac but it just isn't useful yet because no app is using it. iCloud + Versions implemented at the app level really could be a great way to replace the traditional file system. We'll just have to wait and see if it catches on.

jacksnack
Oct 14, 2011, 01:36 AM
I went with SugarSync to replace iDisk. Dropbox is fine if you have very little or a whole lot of data. There's no option between the free 2GB account and 50GB, which is way too much for me and most people.

Dropbox has failed to implement a better pricing structure and better features and you can't ask me to pay a premium for that.

While I was testing it, I found out that you can't share folders within a folder if you have the higher folder already shared. (Did that make sense?) Plus, I didn't like having all the files be local on all machines.

SugarSync has a lot more options on the storage size, devices to sync, true cloud access via a file manager. Plus, if you sign up now for the 5GB free account, it will give you an offer to have your 1st year at 50% off. So I got 30GB for $25.

No, I don't work for the company but I like to sing the praises of good products.

/my $.02

Thanks for this tip! Cu later iCloud when you're a grown up boy/girl.

heydrew
Oct 14, 2011, 01:58 AM
As has been mentioned, developers can add iCloud support into their apps with APIs. We'll see how this plays out. My personal opinion is Apple has big plans for this but is starting out slow. I think it would be trivial for them to add back in the different sync features of OS X using iCloud, even iDisk. The "just download your docs from the web" thing is too clumsy and not elegant; I'm sure Apple knows this. There's most likely a new iWork right around the corner with iCloud built in but iWork for iOS was just deemed more important for launch.

I think that's the whole point of the Documents sync to the Mac but it just isn't useful yet because no app is using it. iCloud + Versions implemented at the app level really could be a great way to replace the traditional file system. We'll just have to wait and see if it catches on.

I'm glad you wrote this because for the last 24 hours I seriously thought I must've been doing something wrong. I even reorganized My Documents folder thinking that was where it must've synched from on iCloud.

ScaredyCat
Oct 14, 2011, 02:16 AM
What I want, simply, is to have my documents sync between my home computer, my work computer, my desktop, laptop, iPad, etc, so that any change I make on each device pushes the changes to all the devices. And I want a master copy in 'the cloud' so that if, for some absurd reason, my house, office, and every iDevice is consumed by a black hole I can grab a new laptop and have my documents.

You should take a look at AeroFS it uses local storage with optional cloud backup...

ScaredyCat

RobeeSVK
Oct 14, 2011, 05:01 AM
I think the problem is expectations and clarity. I'm a rather advanced Apple user. I watch the Keynotes. I don't download developer tools or play around in beta, but I'm almost always the first to grab an update and mess around.

A day later, I honestly still don't understand the 'documents' part of iCloud.

What I want, simply, is to have my documents sync between my home computer, my work computer, my desktop, laptop, iPad, etc, so that any change I make on each device pushes the changes to all the devices. And I want a master copy in 'the cloud' so that if, for some absurd reason, my house, office, and every iDevice is consumed by a black hole I can grab a new laptop and have my documents.

Drop box does this with symlinks or whatever they're called. I'm still confused whether iCloud does this, if I've missed turning some magic button or or what.

I agree and wrote it earlier, "documents" part of the iCloud is now really poor. Documents creation is still the dominion of Mac. Yes, there is iWork for iOS and many others, but we know the reality. Perhaps as iOS and OS X merge even more into (likely) one operating system, we could see benefits. But, I am still hoping, that mentioned API for 3rd party application will allow developers to implement full sync - I am not a developer and do not know if it is possible now. I think OmniGroup has said something along the line, I keep my fingers crossed for CourseNotes, Curio, iDocument, MindNode and many others. And if not? Well, Dropbox :D

ratboy90
Oct 14, 2011, 05:18 AM
as of now icloud is a cheap dropbox knock off

miggitymac
Oct 14, 2011, 05:26 AM
as of now icloud is a cheap dropbox knock off

They offer different services, but if you're talking purely about online storage, then yea...I get what you mean.

If you want 50 GB of free online storage read this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1251187

samcraig
Oct 14, 2011, 07:07 AM
I sincerely hope some developers who are just eager to use iCloud with their apps don't use it unnecessarily so that important info (to keep the app running) is stuck in the cloud while you are "offline". Right now there are some apps that even rely on game center and/or advertising to "load" before you can access the app. Which means if you're, for example, on a NYC subway - you can't run the app at all - even though the app itself doesn't need internet. Stupid.

rdowns
Oct 14, 2011, 08:34 AM
as of now icloud is a cheap dropbox knock off

What a silly statement. iCloud was never sold as being like Dropbox.

Weaselboy
Oct 14, 2011, 09:05 AM
What a silly statement. iCloud was never sold as being like Dropbox.

I would disagree at least as far as document access goes. That part of iCloud was sold as having access to our documents in the cloud from anywhere. Right now it is wonky access to your iWorks documents.

https://img.skitch.com/20111014-ggba9e7s3pufay39bf9gyipie3.jpg

Here is a screen cap from the iCloud features page at apple.com. "Hard drive in the sky" sounds an awful lot like Dropbox to me.

heydrew
Oct 17, 2011, 12:30 AM
You should take a look at AeroFS it uses local storage with optional cloud backup...

ScaredyCat

Thanks! I definitely will. I've been using Dropbox but I'd love to do some sort of local/cloud hybrid.

marc11
Oct 20, 2011, 03:14 AM
I would disagree at least as far as document access goes. That part of iCloud was sold as having access to our documents in the cloud from anywhere. Right now it is wonky access to your iWorks documents.

Image (https://img.skitch.com/20111014-ggba9e7s3pufay39bf9gyipie3.jpg)

Here is a screen cap from the iCloud features page at apple.com. "Hard drive in the sky" sounds an awful lot like Dropbox to me.

I suggest you setup a free 2gb DropBox account and see for yourself. As of this moment the two offerings are not the same. Tell me how I store and work with an excel document or pdf for example on any platform from any where in the world with iCloud today. You cannot. With DropBox you can easily.

Weaselboy
Oct 20, 2011, 07:11 AM
I suggest you setup a free 2gb DropBox account and see for yourself. As of this moment the two offerings are not the same. Tell me how I store and work with an excel document or pdf for example on any platform from any where in the world with iCloud today. You cannot. With DropBox you can easily.

You need to reread my comment and what it was in response to. The poster said iCloud was not marketed as being like Dropbox and I offered evidence that it was.

I use Dropbox and completely agree at this point it is far better than iCloud for document access/sharing.

LapsangSouchong
Oct 20, 2011, 10:05 AM
You need to reread my comment and what it was in response to. The poster said iCloud was not marketed as being like Dropbox and I offered evidence that it was.

I use Dropbox and completely agree at this point it is far better than iCloud for document access/sharing.
I agree with you. It very much WAS marketed as being like dropbox.

hafr
Oct 20, 2011, 10:23 AM
I never thought it was going to be anything like Dropbox. They never really mentioned iDisk anywhere so it wasn't a big surprise that is wasn't there in iCloud.

And about the bitching over not being able to edit Office documents... I mean, is it really that weird that Apple didn't include native support to use their biggest rival's software for text editing, spread sheets etc? Microsoft are free to incorporate iCloud in their Office suite, but crying about Apple not doing so (or even thinking they would when they have Pages and so on) is nothing short of ridiculous.

DotCom2
Oct 20, 2011, 11:37 AM
Coming from MobileMe and iDisk, iCloud is a BIG let down for me. iCloud is free though and for many a good "feature" for wireless syncing. but for *Functionality" MobileMe with iDisk and Gallery could not be beat! I have now signed up for a Dropbox account. I can see the whole iCloud thinking but why on earth cancel MobileMe for those who find it more functional.
To me, iCloud is just a big syncing machine. Dropbox is a big storage machine. With all of Apple's capabilities, why couldn't they have done both??? Photostream is a joke and doesn't hold a candle to Gallery. You can buy more storage in iCloud but what the heck for if there is no uploading of files of your choice as in iDisk. I JUST DON'T GET IT APPLE!
Maybe someday in the future they will address the lose of iDisk and Gallery but for now, I've moved on to Dropbox and have not moved to iCloud and am staying with MM until they close the doors in June!
So YES, Dropbox must be throwing a party!!!

hafr
Oct 20, 2011, 01:33 PM
Coming from MobileMe and iDisk, iCloud is a BIG let down for me. iCloud is free though and for many a good "feature" for wireless syncing. but for *Functionality" MobileMe with iDisk and Gallery could not be beat! I have now signed up for a Dropbox account. I can see the whole iCloud thinking but why on earth cancel MobileMe for those who find it more functional.
To me, iCloud is just a big syncing machine. Dropbox is a big storage machine. With all of Apple's capabilities, why couldn't they have done both??? Photostream is a joke and doesn't hold a candle to Gallery. You can buy more storage in iCloud but what the heck for if there is no uploading of files of your choice as in iDisk. I JUST DON'T GET IT APPLE!
Maybe someday in the future they will address the lose of iDisk and Gallery but for now, I've moved on to Dropbox and have not moved to iCloud and am staying with MM until they close the doors in June!
So YES, Dropbox must be throwing a party!!!

I like SugarSync better than Dropbox, plus it gives you 5 instead of 2 GB. Also, Box.net gives you 50 GB for free. I haven't really tried it out yet so I can't really compare it... But SugarSync beats Dropbox at least :)

Weaselboy
Oct 20, 2011, 02:48 PM
I like SugarSync better than Dropbox, plus it gives you 5 instead of 2 GB. Also, Box.net gives you 50 GB for free. I haven't really tried it out yet so I can't really compare it... But SugarSync beats Dropbox at least :)

I got the box.net iOS app just to sign up for the free storage to see where they go with it, but at this point the desktop sync is a separate paid service so it really limits the value. For iOS to iOS device storage box.net could be a good solution.

DotCom2
Oct 20, 2011, 06:29 PM
I like SugarSync better than Dropbox, plus it gives you 5 instead of 2 GB. Also, Box.net gives you 50 GB for free. I haven't really tried it out yet so I can't really compare it... But SugarSync beats Dropbox at least :)

Thanks, I'll look into sugarsync.
I looked into Box.net but they don't allow .pst files or Quckbooks files and I need it for that so that won't work for me.
I have an email into box.net asking them why!
Dropbox does so I don't get it!

w00tini
Oct 20, 2011, 08:55 PM
soooo...

Apple made a move towards acquiring Dropbox.

I feel some vindication in creating this thread :-)

Anyway... I would agree with the thought that iCloud in its current iteration is just the beginning. As more developers take advantage of associated APIs I believe we'll see more integration of iCloud as a Dropbox-esqu offering.

Gemütlichkeit
Oct 20, 2011, 11:07 PM
Apps will be able to take advantage of iCloud's service. It's an API after all released to the developers.

Programs like Day One will use it which used to only use Drop Box for online syncing. Now they'll offer both features.

So it comes down to iCloud being fairly new and not a lot of apps using it yet.

But yes iCloud isn't a drag and drop service. The apps in the future will just auto sync without the user doing anything which I prefer anyway.

w00tini
Oct 21, 2011, 11:36 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriabarret/2011/10/18/dropbox-the-inside-story-of-techs-hottest-startup/

good read. in short, DB sees Apple, Amazon, Google, ect as threats

marc11
Oct 22, 2011, 01:21 AM
You need to reread my comment and what it was in response to. The poster said iCloud was not marketed as being like Dropbox and I offered evidence that it was.

I use Dropbox and completely agree at this point it is far better than iCloud for document access/sharing.

Ah sorry I didn't go back far enough in the thread.

marc11
Oct 22, 2011, 01:31 AM
double post sorry.