PDA

View Full Version : Apple pays no homage to Catalonia


MacBytes
May 7, 2005, 09:34 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple pays no homage to Catalonia (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050507223446)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Mudbug
May 7, 2005, 10:36 PM
I have to admit in my sheltered life in the U.S., I've never, ever heard of this language that I can remember. Am I alone?

that's not to say there aren't hundreds of languages around the world I've never heard of, but with this being located in all these other countries, I'm just suprised is all.

SPUY767
May 7, 2005, 11:16 PM
Next, the yanomamese will be bitching.

yg17
May 7, 2005, 11:32 PM
Give me a break....if Apple included every language spoken in the world, OSX would include 3 DVDs just for the localization files alone.

sord
May 8, 2005, 12:07 AM
I have to admit in my sheltered life in the U.S., I've never, ever heard of this language that I can remember. Am I alone?
no

Nermal
May 8, 2005, 12:47 AM
I have to admit in my sheltered life in the U.S., I've never, ever heard of this language that I can remember. Am I alone?

I have a Catalonian copy of Shrek :)

So yes, I have heard of it before.

winmacguy
May 8, 2005, 01:41 AM
Having been through Barcelona back in 1997 on my OE travel I can tell you that it is definitely Spanish so I am guessing that they must be speaking a Spanish dialect (One of many).
Although I dont have a copy of Tiger myself I am assuming that they have New Zealand? in their country selection? We only have 4million+ people here...

wowoah
May 8, 2005, 01:43 AM
I've heard of Catalonian too, but Cambodia has a population of over 13 million, and as far as I know, there's no version of Mac OS X in Khmer. :rolleyes:

winmacguy
May 8, 2005, 01:50 AM
I have to admit in my sheltered life in the U.S., I've never, ever heard of this language that I can remember. Am I alone?

that's not to say there aren't hundreds of languages around the world I've never heard of, but with this being located in all these other countries, I'm just suprised is all.

http://www.red2000.com/spain/region/r-catal.html

For more info about Catalonia :)

graphyte
May 8, 2005, 03:11 AM
I live in Spain, and it is an official language it Catalonia (Cataluņa) and it is called catalan. It is not in Cambodia ;) . Here some politicians are protesting because of Apples attitude, because when you select 'Catala' the language that appears is Spanish (castilian) :rolleyes:

wowoah
May 8, 2005, 03:17 AM
I live in Spain, and it is an official language it Catalonia (Cataluņa) and it is called catalan. It is not in Cambodia ;) . Here some politicians are protesting because of Apples attitude, because when you select 'Catala' the language that appears is Spanish (castilian) :rolleyes:

I'm aware that Cambodia and Cataluņa are different places. My point is that the Catalonians' argument that they have 10M speakers doesn't hold water when there are many other "neglected" languages with larger speaking populations.

Nickygoat
May 8, 2005, 03:41 AM
Having been through Barcelona back in 1997 on my OE travel I can tell you that it is definitely Spanish so I am guessing that they must be speaking a Spanish dialect (One of many).
Although I dont have a copy of Tiger myself I am assuming that they have New Zealand? in their country selection? We only have 4million+ people here...
Catalan is not a Spanish dialect - it is a separate language. Tell that to a Catalan and see the response ;). I also think the Catalans buy more macs than the Cambodians :p

winmacguy
May 8, 2005, 04:17 AM
Catalan is not a Spanish dialect - it is a separate language. Tell that to a Catalan and see the response ;). I also think the Catalans buy more macs than the Cambodians :p

My apologies. I was assuming.

Applespider
May 8, 2005, 04:38 AM
Catalan is an official language of that region of Spain and it's more than a dialect of Spanish although there's obvious similarities between them. I think it's fairer to say that they both evolved from the same root but the Spanish and the Catalans both believe their version is superior. The Catalans also believe that they should be an independent nation for a variety of historical and political reasons which is one reason they are getting upset about this. The more international companies who acknowledge Catalan as an 'international' language, the stronger their argument that Catalan could succeed as an independent small country.

What I did think was odd about this was that they were bringing this up as a new 'outrage' when from the article it seemed that OS X has never had a Catalan option and it was only there in the System 8/9 days.

I can accept their point when they say that Apple give international options for languages which have fewer users; and it does seem ironic that Apple's main reseller in Spain is based in the Catalan region.

broken_keyboard
May 8, 2005, 05:11 AM
Well, I don't think they have a right to demand it. The minister saying it was a "right" to have a certain language in OS X is just ridiculous: rights are things like not being murdered and not having your car stolen.

However, if Apple's translation office for the region is in fact in Catalonia (like the article says), surely it wouldn't be too much bother to get one of the guys there to do a translation? They might even do it for free.

Peterkro
May 8, 2005, 05:26 AM
If your interested in why the Catalans are so protective of their language you need to check out some history of the Spanish Civil War.Catalonia was the centre of defence for the Spanish Republic.Franco with the help of the Nazis and western(US and UK) media and banking interests overthrew the Republic,leaving them with a Fascist Dictator.The final nail in the Republics coffin was the underhand dealings of Stalin.Many leftists and Anarchists from around the world went to help defend the Republic.The lefts defeat in Spain led to the second world war(by giving Hitler et al the confidence to attack other countries).I personally think they have every right to be mad at Apple for such a stunning insult.I would have thought Apple would be a little more aware of the Catalonians feelings.

PS no small number of western fascists also fought in Spain.

Vonnie
May 8, 2005, 05:29 AM
I have to admit in my sheltered life in the U.S., I've never, ever heard of this language that I can remember. Am I alone?

that's not to say there aren't hundreds of languages around the world I've never heard of, but with this being located in all these other countries, I'm just suprised is all.

I think most people living in Europe have heard about Catalonia. I heard about it in school several years ago :) I've later been to Barcelona, and if you talk to locals, you notice pretty quickly that most of them are proud of Catalonia. Seems to me that they feel more connected to Catalonia than to Spain. Kind of like people in Flanders in Belgium. Flemish first, Belgian second.

StarbucksSam
May 8, 2005, 05:44 AM
Having read briefly the history that was described in this thread, I can see why it is such a great insult to these people. How hard would it be for Apple to send the language pack in the new OS update?

O and A
May 8, 2005, 10:00 AM
Having read briefly the history that was described in this thread, I can see why it is such a great insult to these people. How hard would it be for Apple to send the language pack in the new OS update?

because they already know how to speak proper spanish they just refuse to do it. :eek: :D

plinden
May 8, 2005, 11:35 AM
I would have expected Mac users to be more sympathetic to this issue. For a native Catalan, being forced to use Castillian (the Spanish dialect normally referred to as "Spanish") would be a couple of magnitudes worse than being forced to use Windows.

Catalan is not a Spanish dialect. It is related to Castillian, but about as closely as Portugese is.

There are more speakers of Catalan than there of Finnish or Danish.

Catalonia is one of the most prosperous regions of Spain and offering the language as an option would almost certainly be worthwhile.

Arpan
May 8, 2005, 11:49 AM
Well India has a billion people, with around 200-300 million speaking Hindi, but there's no Hindi version of OS X. Apple (or any other software company) will not make localized versions of their software based on the population. What matters is the number of people purchasing the software.

I'm sure if they purchased a million iMacs, Apple would be very happy to give them a localized version of OS X.

redAPPLE
May 8, 2005, 04:32 PM
i do not plan to belittle catalonians, but i think they feel their pride has been bruised, that is all.

what about the "spanish-speaking" nations in south america, and central america? i think it is correct for Apple to have "spanish", because they have to consider the other countries too.

remember Apple wants the ease of use.

:p

Panoctopi
May 8, 2005, 04:40 PM
I would have expected Mac users to be more sympathetic to this issue. For a native Catalan, being forced to use Castillian (the Spanish dialect normally referred to as "Spanish") would be a couple of magnitudes worse than being forced to use Windows.

Catalan is not a Spanish dialect. It is related to Castillian, but about as closely as Portugese is.

There are more speakers of Catalan than there of Finnish or Danish.

Catalonia is one of the most prosperous regions of Spain and offering the language as an option would almost certainly be worthwhile.


Totally agree with you! This is an important ongoing debate in Spain and Catalunia, that has cost many lives and caused much pain... if it was included in previous OS versions why not now... also, if apple is going to include it then don't insult the catalans by listing it and then having it be spanhish! :(

Awimoway
May 9, 2005, 03:31 AM
Well India has a billion people, with around 200-300 million speaking Hindi, but there's no Hindi version of OS X. Apple (or any other software company) will not make localized versions of their software based on the population. What matters is the number of people purchasing the software.

I'm sure if they purchased a million iMacs, Apple would be very happy to give them a localized version of OS X.

That's a curious fact. Is it because all Hindi-speakers likely to use computers are also fluent in English? Just curious.

jobberwacky
May 9, 2005, 04:06 AM
I would have expected Mac users to be more sympathetic to this issue. For a native Catalan, being forced to use Castillian (the Spanish dialect normally referred to as "Spanish") would be a couple of magnitudes worse than being forced to use Windows.
Oh come on, almost all Catalonians are perfect bilinguals (something they can be proud of), and Spanish is omnipresent in their daily life anyway. So it's mainly a political issue (for the Catalans), not really one about practicality.

Sometimes, they are hindering themselves with their language nationalism, e.g. when they oppose the use of Spanish (or English) for dedicated (i.e. non-standard curriculum) university lectures. This just enhances isolation, while they're trying to get Catalonia onto the international map at the same time (and very rightly so).

For Apple, the decision was surely a purely economic one, it for sure had nothing to do with taking sides in the Iberian language debate.

Andreas, ex-inhabitant of Barcelonia

Nickygoat
May 9, 2005, 04:31 AM
Oh come on, almost all Catalonians are perfect bilinguals (something they can be proud of), and Spanish is omnipresent in their daily life anyway. So it's mainly a political issue (for the Catalans), not really one about practicality.

Sometimes, they are hindering themselves with their language nationalism, e.g. when they oppose the use of Spanish (or English) for dedicated (i.e. non-standard curriculum) university lectures. This just enhances isolation, while they're trying to get Catalonia onto the international map at the same time (and very rightly so).

For Apple, the decision was surely a purely economic one, it for sure had nothing to do with taking sides in the Iberian language debate.

Andreas, ex-inhabitant of Barcelonia
Yes a lot of Catalans are bilingual - but this was forced on them by Franco (the same thing happened in Galicia and the Basque country). Many of the younger generation are refusing to learn Spanish, or are not being taught it as it is not their language. Short sighted if you ask me (it's always better to be bilingual) but it's their choice. Learning Spanish was never an option - Catalan was banned.
It may also have been a practical decision for Apple - how many Catalan speaking programmers develop for Mac?

jobberwacky
May 9, 2005, 04:43 AM
Yes a lot of Catalans are bilingual - but this was forced on them by Franco (the same thing happened in Galicia and the Basque country).
Well, actually it was even worse than that. Catalan was not tolerated in public places.


Many of the younger generation are refusing to learn Spanish, or are not being taught it as it is not their language.
It's not quite that drastic, higher education always involves Spanish. And I think that's a good thing. Just as in Switzerland, where I live, you always receive foreign language training in (at least) one of the country's three major languages at school.