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MacBytes
May 9, 2005, 04:59 PM
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Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Hilary Rosen (former RIAA CEO & Chairwoman) criticises iTunes Music Store. (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050509175917)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Lacero
May 9, 2005, 05:00 PM
Her own organization, the RIAA, hires people to create and distribute those viruses to deliberately infect P2P sites. I wonder if Hillary Rosen ever met the truth.

PlaceofDis
May 9, 2005, 05:03 PM
she knows how to whine thats for sure. iTunes is a closed system because it works flawlessly and because it is competeing against the proprietray .wma standard that MS is trying to create a monopoly with. the one thing that apple may want to do is license out fairplay.... but there goes that nice integration

GaelDesign
May 9, 2005, 05:08 PM
Now that's funny. The former leader of the RIAA critisizes Apple for using DRM to protect iTMS's music files. Wow. Is she so out of touch with reality that she doesn't realize the irony of her comments? The reason the iPod is a closed system is because of the DRM! Oh, Apple doesn't want to play in Microsoft's sandbox? Boo hoo.

Here's an idea: Apple, Microsoft, Real, and everyone else stops using DRM and promotes open music files. People will buy and not pirate because they can actually get something with value. You don't sell products by criminalizing people, you sell products by offering people value. People will buy Tiger rather than pirate it off download sites because they want to support Apple. Apple treats them well and offers value. Why can't the music industry stop acting like a bunch of spoiled brats and start acting like a decent business for a change?

Jared

mkrishnan
May 9, 2005, 05:20 PM
Now that's funny. The former leader of the RIAA critisizes Apple for using DRM to protect iTMS's music files. Wow. Is she so out of touch with reality that she doesn't realize the irony of her comments? The reason the iPod is a closed system is because of the DRM! Oh, Apple doesn't want to play in Microsoft's sandbox? Boo hoo.

Yeah, the RIAA is a big credibility disintegration field.... :( Criticizing the only online music store people actually use is out of line. Unless, of course, you're on the RIAA's side, and you're getting a kick of prosecuting teenagers for stealing music instead of providing them with a viable alternative....

Stridder44
May 9, 2005, 05:31 PM
I hate the RIAA so much..

Mav451
May 9, 2005, 05:36 PM
lol the RIAA and The Devil are one and the same. I see no distinction.

*edit continue rant*
She dares to criticize iTunes. It says alot when the only online-music purchasing method i support is iTunes. And closed? Hah. Apparently she must be stuck in 1997...

PlaceofDis
May 9, 2005, 05:39 PM
lol the RIAA and The Devil are one and the same. I see no distinction.

for some reason i just laughed when i saw this, but thats probably becaue i agree with you!

mrsebastian
May 9, 2005, 05:45 PM
"but when, oh when, will Steve Jobs let me buy music from somewhere other than the Apple iTunes store and put it on my iPod?"

uh what?! hilary, you can buy/share/steal your music from where ever you'd like and then put it on your ipod in quite a few different formats. you are far from forced to use itunes. "out of touch" is putting it too nicely, how bout you [bleepin] hypocritical [bleep], go [bleep] yourself and the [bleepers] you used to work with and rode in on... lol i used to hate the riaa as a group, but now i can start singling out one person, woohoo, thanks.

rjfiske
May 9, 2005, 05:48 PM
Loved these quotes too...


"Why am I complaining about this?"

Because Hilary, in your family intelligence skips a generation.

"Why isnít everyone?"

See above...

yg17
May 9, 2005, 05:49 PM
So would she rather Apple use a DRM much like Napster2Go that can be cracked easier than a paper thin piece of glass?

jydesign
May 9, 2005, 05:51 PM
"But those other music sites have lots of music that you canít get at the iTunes store..."

This seems to be her only real point that could be debated. But is this really so? Since this is the only credible argument she should at least offer some examples or data. And if it is the case, it's also the fault of the record labels or artists who fail to saturate all available services with their content. Just because 'playsforsure' is licensed across many players/manufacturers, doesn't mean it's an 'open' DRM format -- it's still proprietary. So, breadth of content is really the only axe to grind IMO.

mainstreetmark
May 9, 2005, 05:57 PM
The failure in the Windows analogy is that no one is EVER forced into iPod/iTMS. It's not like you go to school and have to use an iPod, or go get a job in the IT industry and they assign you an iPod to sit at all day, and therefore you better be damn diligent on how to use one of those bastards.

It >IS< an open market. There isn't a single consumer out there who is forced to use the iPod. There isn't a single user out there who is forced to use iTMS (although, technically, if you own a iPod, you use iTunes, and iTunes IS the iTMS, so that's not really even a point). There are people who are forced to use Windows.

Don't want to use iPod/iTMS? Fine! Use the Dell <funny serial number> and Real's music store. I don't care. Don't make Apple break a successful vertically integrated model, just so you can buy from some other online music store.

How come Gillette didn't get in this mess for inventing a cheap, disposable razor, but charging everybody for proprietary razor blades.


(I'm ignoring the silly "incoming freshmen get iPods" crap in this rant)

dukeblue91
May 9, 2005, 06:13 PM
Wow this sure sounds very familiar :mad:
I wonder how much she got paid by Napster & Co.

If she swallows a fly, she'll have more brain in her stomach than in her head.

dornoforpyros
May 9, 2005, 06:14 PM
It must be fun to have/have had a job where all you really had to do was complain without having any real logic to back up your arguments. :rolleyes:

Lacero
May 9, 2005, 06:16 PM
I think whatever she would claim, she actually isn't worried about consumer lock-in. What she's worried about is producer-side lock-in. The RIAA members are locked in to the iTunes Music Store; they have to do business with the iTMS or their competitors will get the purchases there instead. The RIAA probably isn't happy about this.

Keynoteuser
May 9, 2005, 06:19 PM
I say, why BOTHER using another service? The iTunes store is the best. Most of us aren't complaining because we don't care. I fire up iTunes, I buy a song, I sync my iPod. Done. No other service would likely be that smooth.

inkswamp
May 9, 2005, 06:29 PM
The new iPod my girlfriend gave me is a trap. Yeah, it is great looking and I really love the baby blue leather case but when, oh when, will Steve Jobs let me buy music from somewhere other than the Apple iTunes store and put it on my iPod?


I spent 17 years in the music business the last several of which were all about pushing and prodding the painful development of legitimate on-line music.

GOOD GOD! WTF is this @#$%&* talking about? Is this a joke? Is she that stupid or is she just a pathetic liar? Both of those sentences are outright falsehoods, and anyone with an even passing knowledge of the iPod or a Rosen's history with the RIAA knows that she's full of it. I'm not even going to read the rest of it. Life's too short to spend it reading someone else's lies.

How does someone this idiotic get into a position of power? She's a fool... and an ignorant one at that. What a @#$%&* moron! :mad:

O and A
May 9, 2005, 06:33 PM
Few people complain becasue it works so well. Apple controls the software and the hardware. just like the mac. thats why it works.

When someoen can figure out how to top itunes (which can happen contrary to popular belief around here) then we'll hear complaints and they will need to be adressed and i'm sure htey will.

right now i'm content and apparently so are the majority of ipod users.

chuckh2d
May 9, 2005, 06:48 PM
Quoted from Wikipedia's entry on Hilary Rosen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Rosen

"On November 30, 2004, Rosen became the interim director for the Human Rights Campaign, a leading GLBT lobbyist organization, following the ouster of Cheryl Jacques. Hilary's partner, Elizabeth, was the executive director of HRC for eight years prior to Jacques' assumption of the post."

While I'll be the first to admit I know next to nothing about Cheryl Jacques' tenure at HRC, I was a big fan of hers in her previous career in Massachusetts politics. And I'm struck/dismayed by this, uh, coincidence...

SPUY767
May 9, 2005, 07:21 PM
It simply floors me that a member of the RIAA has the undying gall to call another organization anti-consumer.

seriypshick
May 9, 2005, 07:28 PM
This lady is dumb. She's also a huge Windows freak.

You can easily put the songs that you buy online from other sites on your iPod. I can't see why she's having a problem.

Some of you mentioned that she wants to use .wma; but .wma? that's just stupid. Apple != Microsoft. It's not Apple's fault that ppl in Redmont made up some stupid .wma format that noone wants to use.

I think this lady is just jeleous.

CaptainHaddock
May 9, 2005, 07:36 PM
Rosen is obviously frustrated that Mac users haven't capitulated to the Windows Media / DRM / no-rights-to-use-your-own-computer farce that all the other major stores are subjected to. But it takes a real moron to say that offering a better solution is anti-competitive!

Industry shills and con-artists like Rosen gleefully ignore the fact that restriction-free formats like the ubiquitous MP3 work great on the iPod. It's the other stores' faults (and the RIAA's fault) that they don't play nice by offering MP3 music. I mean, who actually wants digitally restricted WMA files? Not me, that's for sure.

GaelDesign
May 9, 2005, 08:06 PM
Again, instead of complaining that Apple's DRM isn't being licensed, why doesn't she take MS and its WMA store partners to task for using their own proprietary DRM in the first place? Guess what -- all those stores could ditch WMA and use an open standard (AAC) without DRM, and it would work just fine on the iPod! Imagine that!

Jared

ValiumLolliPoP
May 9, 2005, 08:19 PM
I still don't get why this arguement is valid since A. the only music store Mac's can use is iTunes and B. music should be the same in every store.

Since when does Sam Goody have an album that Barnes and Noble didn't? I know this can be good to draw customers, but it doesn't happen in the real world. Music should be available to everyone. The RIAA doesn't get music. They only get Accounting 101.

dejo
May 9, 2005, 08:19 PM
Again, instead of complaining that Apple's DRM isn't being licensed, why doesn't she take MS and its WMA store partners to task for using their own proprietary DRM in the first place? Guess what -- all those stores could ditch WMA and use an open standard (AAC) without DRM, and it would work just fine on the iPod! Imagine that!

Jared

C'mon. Seriously. Those stores would have no tracks to sell if they did not have DRM since the labels would not go along. They had to DRM them and since they couldn't license Apple's DRM, they licensed Microsoft's.

Mav451
May 9, 2005, 08:21 PM
Rosen is obviously frustrated that Mac users haven't capitulated to the Windows Media / DRM / no-rights-to-use-your-own-computer farce that all the other major stores are subjected to. But it takes a real moron to say that offering a better solution is anti-competitive!

Industry shills and con-artists like Rosen gleefully ignore the fact that restriction-free formats like the ubiquitous MP3 work great on the iPod. It's the other stores' faults (and the RIAA's fault) that they don't play nice by offering MP3 music. I mean, who actually wants digitally restricted WMA files? Not me, that's for sure.

Heh but we don't want m4p's either now do we? Fortunately there are methods =D

basiq
May 9, 2005, 09:52 PM
As always, someone needs to get a dose of reality check, If I May be real...

first and foremost, iPod does allow other Mp3 bought in other Internet music store (unprotected WMA can be imported as ACC or MP3 using itunes), if you do not know how to do so, well... you're an idiot, how can you run an organization when you can't simply press the import button..

Trap my ass, you dont want it, give it to people who can really enjoy and use it. :eek:

StarbucksSam
May 9, 2005, 10:28 PM
Did anybody else notice the disgraceful writing style? Or the fact that she's full of crap?

narco
May 9, 2005, 10:51 PM
The biggest misconception with the iPod is the music store. Whenever someone (who doesn't know better) notices my iPod, they ask my some questions, but usually they think that the only way to play songs on it is to buy directly from the iTMS. It's kind of like how some people don't buy the iPod photo because they think it doesn't play music.

But this Hilary lady is a real piece of work. I love when people criticize Apple for lack of choices, when there's nothing but. Look at how flooded the mp3 player market is now. There are plenty of online music stores too -- she even lists some of the other "choices." When I read articles like this, I usually assume they have an agenda.

Some of these CEOs are just plain stupid, or they just pretend they are because they know the general public will just believe every word they say.

Fishes,
narco.

macnulty
May 9, 2005, 11:47 PM
Can any one person be more clueless

"She is an active public speaker and has appeared regularly on various, influential year-end power lists including Entertainment Weekly's "Annual Power List of the 101 Most Influential People In Entertainment," The Hollywood Reporter's Power 50. In 2000 and 2001, The Industry Standard magazine named her as one 21 executives who most artfully navigated the year in technology and Digital Coast Magazine named her in the top ten of the 50 most important people in the convergence between entertainment and technology. At RIAA, Rosen played a crucial role in forging a path for the development of new policies and business models for on-line music distribution and is widely credited as being one of the pioneers in developing the crucial relationships between the entertainment and technology industries. She currently consults with various companies on digital distribution and consumer strategies for entertainment products. Her articles on the entertainment business and on politics have appeared in publications such as The Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Wired Magazine, Billboard, Business 2.0, Variety and others."

Excerpted from her bio, very scary she any has influence.

nbs2
May 9, 2005, 11:50 PM
as a side note, please note where this was posted...Ariana Huffington's new blog. To read a rather, well, honest opinion of the site enjoy (http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/25/web-finke.php). It should put this in perspective

fpnc
May 10, 2005, 12:51 AM
I really like it when she says that the cheapest iPod costs "a few hundred dollars." Can she really be that poorly informed? This was either written several months ago or she is a complete incompetent.

Lacero
May 10, 2005, 02:18 AM
The latest fad in american business and politics is to spread FUD like it's going out of style. In post 9/11 america, it works way too well, especially for a people who lost the ability to reason a long time ago, if they ever had it.

This may seem like an incredibly stupid thing to say, but in reality you just have to follow the money. The RIAA doesn't like the iTunes model because Apple has this segment of the market locked up real nice because their system works so well for 90% of the American public. With power comes control of the cash. If the RIAA tries to leverage itself against iTunes, the egomaniacal Jobs will push back, because he likes using his power.

winmacguy
May 10, 2005, 03:23 AM
Her own organization, the RIAA, hires people to create and distribute those viruses to deliberately infect P2P sites. I wonder if Hillary Rosen ever met the truth.
Pitty she didnt post her email address. ;)

ReanimationLP
May 10, 2005, 04:38 AM
Shes retarded.

WMA is so ridiciously easy to crack. I could get a free trial for Napster2Go, get all the music I want, take out the DRM, and whola. She needs to crawl out of Bill Gates' @$$. :D

JohnHummel
May 10, 2005, 11:00 AM
If you are looking to an alternative to the iTMS, may I suggest a new technology I have discovered called a "CD".

A "CD" is a piece of plastic with a thin metal foil inside. On this foil, burned with a laser (when said lasers have been removed from the heads of frikkin' sharks), is stored a digital copy of an artists music.

This music can be read by something called a "CD Player" or, in the case of a computer, a "CD" or "DVD" ROM. It uses a standard of digital music which is accepted as a standard across the electronic industry.

By inserting a CD into the computer, one (using iTunes or similar software) able to "rip" or "copy" the songs into a format called "MP3" or "AAC", both of which are compatible with the iPod.

I hope this clears up your misconception on how the iTunes software and the iPod can work with more than the iTMS. Hopefully, you will be able to use this method in the future to extract the music which you have legally purchased from your CDs and add it to your iPod. Should this step be more difficult than raising FUD or taking 3 minutes to, I don't know, read the god damned manual that came with your iPod, there are companies such as LoadPod that will be happy to assist you.

Yours Truly,

John Hummel

PS: Just what *is* wrong with you anyway?

iGary
May 10, 2005, 11:05 AM
Why am I complaining about this? Why isnít everyone?

Because there's not a problem. Dumb *expletive*. :mad:

shamino
May 10, 2005, 11:58 AM
as a side note, please note where this was posted...Ariana Huffington's new blog. To read a rather, well, honest opinion of the site enjoy (http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/25/web-finke.php). It should put this in perspective
What opinion? This link says nothing about Hilary Rosen, the RIAA, iTunes or anything else relevant. It's just a multi-page "I hate Ariana Huffington" rant.

That may be all well and good, but it is completely irrelevant to what we're discussing here.

shamino
May 10, 2005, 12:09 PM
The latest fad in american business and politics is to spread FUD like it's going out of style. In post 9/11 america, it works way too well, especially for a people who lost the ability to reason a long time ago, if they ever had it.
This has nothing to do with 9/11. Businesses have been lying to the public for decades, and the public has been stupid enough to believe the lies for millennia.

You don't seriously think people being idiots is a recent or strictly-American phenomenon do you?
This may seem like an incredibly stupid thing to say, but in reality you just have to follow the money. The RIAA doesn't like the iTunes model because Apple has this segment of the market locked up real nice because their system works so well for 90% of the American public.
Absolutely. The RIAA (representing the major record labels) is pissed off because they want to renegotiate their contracts with Apple before they expire and Jobs is saying "no way in hell".

They gave Apple these extremely liberal terms, expecting iTMS to flop. Now that it's become the most successful music-download service in the industry, they now want to double and triple the price. Apple and their pesky multi-year contract is the only thing standing in between them and their goal of making music downloads several times more expensive than purchasing CDs.

Since they can't break their contract, and they don't want to boycott iTMS (after all, they are making a lot of money from it), they resort to scare tactics, thinly-veiled threats of legal action, and an appeal to users to make them stab themselves in the back.
With power comes control of the cash. If the RIAA tries to leverage itself against iTunes, the egomaniacal Jobs will push back, because he likes using his power.
So, do you approve of the RIAA's actions? Your posting up to this point seemed to say you disapprove. Now, it seems that you agree with the RIAA.

Or are you just in a sour mood, so you feel like saying nasty things about everybody you mention?

macnulty
May 10, 2005, 07:29 PM
Shes retarded.

WMA is so ridiciously easy to crack. I could get a free trial for Napster2Go, get all the music I want, take out the DRM, and whola. She needs to crawl out of Bill Gates' @$$. :D

I was gonna say retarded but didn't want to offend our friends who would be insulted by this drivel.

Doctor Q
May 10, 2005, 07:46 PM
She saysIf you are really a geek, you can figure out how to strip the songs you might have bought from another on-line store of all identifying information so that they will go into the iPod.How interesting. An RIAA bigwig bringing up the subject of stripping DRM. Those who do so can now say that Hilary Rosen gave them the idea.

StarbucksSam
May 10, 2005, 07:51 PM
She saysHow interesting. An RIAA bigwig bringing up the subject of stripping DRM. Those who do so can now say that Hilary Rosen gave them the idea.

That'll hold up in front of the Supreme Court. Hillary Rosen made me do it.

But you make an interesting point.

macnulty
May 10, 2005, 08:26 PM
I'm on sensory overload, like shooting fish in a barrel. So much wrong in so small a space. Doesn't she know WMA is proprietary to MS? Doesn't she know RIAA mandated DRM that created this situation? Doesn't she know no-one is forced to buy an iPod? Doesn't she know consumers decided that iPod & iTunes is the best solution? Doesn't she know it's Apples' intellectual property that created the legal download market? Doesn't she know it's the same song no matter from what service you buy it from? Doesn't she know iPod & iTunes are not a monopoly because there is choice? Doesn't she know the alternative sucks by evidence of consumer freely choosing? Doesn't she know any of this at least by osmosis from the RIAA?

I'm sorry for the rant.

Time for a cigarette.

Santaduck
May 10, 2005, 08:34 PM
"is this the same Jobs that railed for years about the Microsoft monopoly? "

hmmm. It's fun to be on the winning side for a change isn't it.

However, Apple was there before, at the advent of the personal computer revolution, and they lost out by being proprietary.

No matter how much many people dislike anyone associated with the RIAA, the fact remains that Apple has an awful pattern of being on the cusp of greatness, then ruining its golden opportunity.

There's a wonderfully keen article on exactly this point from Harvard Business School about a year ago, and it's still on the mark more than ever, even including recent iPod/iTunes/MM/Tiger hype:
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item.jhtml?id=3877&t=strategy

I hope Apple is here to stay, and I don't trust them not to mess up again.

macnulty
May 10, 2005, 10:03 PM
Funny how after a year, Harvard Business School is still wrong.