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MacRumors
Oct 18, 2011, 12:40 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/18/chinese-factory-shutdown-may-affect-apple-notebook-supplies/)


http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/10/overview_hero20110811-500x156.png


Computerworld (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9220917/Chinese_factory_shutdown_may_affect_Mac_notebook_supplies?taxonomyId=12) reports that the shutdown of a Chinese manufacturer may affect inventories of Apple's MacBook Pro and MacBook Air notebooks.

Taiwanese company Catcher Technology has had to temporarily close down a factory in eastern China due to complaints of a "strange odor" coming from the building. Catcher is said to be responsible for 60% of Apple's uni-body aluminum casings for Apple's notebook line. In a statement (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576636141124619006.html#ixzz1b3yiMbSQ), Catcher admitted that customer supplies would be affected."Shipments to our customers will inevitably be affected. We already asked them to make adjustments to their (casings) procurement," Catcher President Allen Horng told a news conference.It's not clear when the plant will resume full operations. Apple obtains the other 40% of its case supply from Foxconn.

The timing is unfortunate as we've been hearing rumors that Apple was planning on a small MacBook Pro refresh as early as this week. Rumors had suggested a processor bump (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/13/apple-may-processor-bump-macbook-pros-in-2011/) was due late this year, and new part numbers (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/13/new-macbook-pro-part-numbers-suggest-updated-models-coming-soon/) have suggested an imminent launch.

Article Link: Chinese Factory Shutdown May Affect Apple Notebook Supplies (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/18/chinese-factory-shutdown-may-affect-apple-notebook-supplies/)



complexcommunic
Oct 18, 2011, 12:43 AM
Why is this the first I'm hearing of a macbook pro refresh?

lifeinhd
Oct 18, 2011, 12:46 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

Good incentive to release the thinner models sooner then-- thinner model = less aluminum = Foxconn can create more... at least, with my twisted thinking :o

jav6454
Oct 18, 2011, 12:46 AM
Hopefully a nice stock of Al cases is handy while this brushes over.

mrtravel123
Oct 18, 2011, 12:46 AM
"The timing is unfortunate as we've been hearing rumors that Apple was planning on a small MacBook Pro refresh as early as this week."

I don't remember any reporting on these rumors either. Isn't this MacRumors?

One thing is for sure. I don't want AAPL to tank because of this. I think that most investors were hoping for a homerun earnings report on Tuesday... and a small bump in the stock price. Now... who knows?

Abyssgh0st
Oct 18, 2011, 12:55 AM
Why is this the first I'm hearing of a macbook pro refresh?

Guessed you missed this. (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/13/apple-may-processor-bump-macbook-pros-in-2011/)

Inakto
Oct 18, 2011, 12:55 AM
I'm sure apple will demand the dead bodies removed from the factory.
In my opinion the factory ought not overwork their employees to the point of death, but who am I really?

swingerofbirch
Oct 18, 2011, 01:23 AM
Unfortunate timing?

These are the factories we've read about where workers are constantly inhaling aluminum dust, getting sick, and even dying. The fact that authorities in China have shut it down tells you it's a pretty bad situation. What's unfortunate is that people are sick from factory work.

When the Foxconn factory exploded, there were reports that workers there too were inhaling aluminum dust and they found a lot of huge safety violations.

This factory is only finally getting attention because the smell was so bad it was bothering neighbors near the factory--imagine what it's like inside.

There is a precedent for this situation: late 19th century/early 20th century United States. It was a moral tragedy. And it was for the sake of greed. And saying the timing is unfortunate now because you are worried an unannounced, very slightly speed bumped MBP will be delayed is also greedy.

----------

"The timing is unfortunate as we've been hearing rumors that Apple was planning on a small MacBook Pro refresh as early as this week."

I don't remember any reporting on these rumors either. Isn't this MacRumors?

One thing is for sure. I don't want AAPL to tank because of this. I think that most investors were hoping for a homerun earnings report on Tuesday... and a small bump in the stock price. Now... who knows?

I'm guessing this is sarcasm.

Gemütlichkeit
Oct 18, 2011, 01:25 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

v1nny
Oct 18, 2011, 01:28 AM
I bought a 13 MBP last month . Filed a return on amazon this morning because of the rumors of the late 2011 refresh. Now what? lol. I only have 30 days to return...

blunti
Oct 18, 2011, 01:41 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

if they do, the price of the computers will increase a lot.

SilianRail
Oct 18, 2011, 01:42 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in CaliforniaAnyone know the last Apple computer to be manufactured in the US? I know the Apple II for sure, but that cost $1298 in 1977, which is around $4800 today.

SchneiderMan
Oct 18, 2011, 01:51 AM
I've got mine, I'm all good.

smulji
Oct 18, 2011, 01:52 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

As long as people everywhere demand quality products at cheaper & cheaper prices it'll never happen.

Unless Americans want to get paid peanuts so that the cost of the products don't dramatically rise forget about it.

Greed, in terms of the profits demanded by corporations & shareholders, & the desire for cheap products demanded by consumers is the enemy of morality in business.

CFreymarc
Oct 18, 2011, 01:57 AM
Shutdown the Chinese factories. Build Apple products in Texas. Get rid of the unions. Profit!

SandynJosh
Oct 18, 2011, 02:03 AM
This factory is only finally getting attention because the smell was so bad it was bothering neighbors near the factory--imagine what it's like inside.

It was fine inside. Passed all the air-quality tests. It stunk outside because they were doing a real good job of exhausting whatever it is. Typical Chinese corruption...move the problem around instead of fixing it. In the USA we rely on Congress to do that for us.

----------

I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

Well, they could move it to Canada. I understand there's a good-sized phone/tablet factory there that's not doing much these days. ;)

StoneyG
Oct 18, 2011, 02:08 AM
if they do, the price of the computers will increase a lot.

I bought a 13 MBP last month . Filed a return on amazon this morning because of the rumors of the late 2011 refresh. Now what? lol. I only have 30 days to return...

You people are part of the problem. Clearly you've missed some of the other ramifications of what was mentioned in the post.

Oh, and what swingerofbirch said.

mrsir2009
Oct 18, 2011, 02:12 AM
Oh well... Its only a minor update. It'll get here eventually.

oxfordguy
Oct 18, 2011, 02:13 AM
Guessed you missed this. (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/13/apple-may-processor-bump-macbook-pros-in-2011/)

and this (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/13/new-macbook-pro-part-numbers-suggest-updated-models-coming-soon/) last week...

Peace
Oct 18, 2011, 02:15 AM
Apple's pretty good about supply chain logistics. I'd guess this will have little impact on supplies.

Laird Knox
Oct 18, 2011, 02:31 AM
I'm sure apple will demand the dead bodies removed from the factory.
In my opinion the factory ought not overwork their employees to the point of death, but who am I really?

Yeah Apple sux, Dell, Motorolla, LG and Samsung are so much more responsible. :rolleyes:

q64ceo
Oct 18, 2011, 02:53 AM
It could always be much worse than having China make Apple's products. It could be made in Great Britain, and that is really, really scary.

LeiQQ
Oct 18, 2011, 03:06 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

Now I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and buy one.

adder7712
Oct 18, 2011, 03:17 AM
Still have the "original" unibody MacBook Aluminium. :p

Hopefully iMac supplies are not affected, might grab the higher end one in December.

Ping Guo
Oct 18, 2011, 03:40 AM
if they do, the price of the computers will increase a lot.

The labor cost is only one factor, and not as much as a lot of people think. The Japanese have high labor cost, yet they've managed to be extremely competitive building automobiles and computers.

Apple can still source some parts from Taiwan and Korea, and move assembly back to the states, and take advantage of robotics like the Japanese do. This would provide skilled jobs.

The increased labor costs would also be offset somewhat by cheaper shipping.

SilianRail
Oct 18, 2011, 03:47 AM
The labor cost is only one factor, and not as much as a lot of people think. The Japanese have high labor cost, yet they've managed to be extremely competitive building automobiles and computers.

Apple can still source some parts from Taiwan and Korea, and move assembly back to the states, and take advantage of robotics like the Japanese do. This would provide skilled jobs.

The increased labor costs would also be offset somewhat by cheaper shipping.You've just solved the US trade deficit and added a healthy chunk to Apple's margin, what are you going to do with your $1.4 million Nobel prize in economics winnings?

Ping Guo
Oct 18, 2011, 04:08 AM
You've just solved the US trade deficit and added a healthy chunk to Apple's margin, what are you going to do with your $1.4 million Nobel prize in economics winnings?

*Yawn* What's your contribution to the thread?

And if you think that would solve the US trade deficit, it's you who needs to learn something about economics. What it would do is bring some much-needed jobs back from overseas.

Piggie
Oct 18, 2011, 04:16 AM
Exactly the same as what my Boss has said to me.
Labour costs are not the issue many seem to think they are in a well designed and organised factory.

If you have a machine turning out a few $100 or $1000 worth of parts a hour, then whether you pay the guy who is manning it, $2 or $20 a hour it's small fry put up against the value of the output/product that's being created.

Often the problem is in the US and UK workers have to often use machinery that's decades (even wartime) old machinery and then they are compared to a factory in the far east that's just cost a couple of billion to equip with the latest cutting edge machinery.
Then they start showing how much cheaper the far eastern company is in making the product.

organerito
Oct 18, 2011, 04:32 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

The only problem would be that as they are going to pay the minimum salary, nobody would like to work there. So, they'll hire illegal Mexicans. Then, Americans are going to complain that Mexicans steal their jobs.

acidfast7
Oct 18, 2011, 05:04 AM
You've just solved the US trade deficit and added a healthy chunk to Apple's margin, what are you going to do with your $1.4 million Nobel prize in economics winnings?

Technically that's not a Nobel Prize. This comes from someone who knows.

BornAgainMac
Oct 18, 2011, 05:05 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

Why can't the odor be identified?

lukarak
Oct 18, 2011, 05:14 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

Sure they can. But then, we go back to no average person being able to own so much of technology, somewhere around 197x - early 198x. The standard of living of western civilization is based on cheap labor of what we consider symbols of our standard of living. Cars, gadgets, and so on. There aren't enough resources in the world to give everyone an iphone, a macbook pro and so on. We can only have them because most of the world doesn't, and is willing to produce it for us.

the8thark
Oct 18, 2011, 05:32 AM
The increased labor costs would also be offset somewhat by cheaper shipping.

Not for some people. Cheaper to ship to Australia from China then it is from the USA.

SilianRail
Oct 18, 2011, 05:47 AM
Often the problem is in the US and UK workers have to often use machinery that's decades (even wartime) old machinery and then they are compared to a factory in the far east that's just cost a couple of billion to equip with the latest cutting edge machinery.
Then they start showing how much cheaper the far eastern company is in making the product.The United States is the largest manufacturer in the world producing $2.3 trillion in goods each year. I don't think Intel fabs and Boeing plants use Mickey Mouse equipment.

usptact
Oct 18, 2011, 05:50 AM
Hope that this will lead to more production in developed countries too...

swedefish
Oct 18, 2011, 05:55 AM
Technically that's not a Nobel Prize. This comes from someone who knows.

Glad someone else knows. ;)

Abazigal
Oct 18, 2011, 06:05 AM
Unfortunate timing?

These are the factories we've read about where workers are constantly inhaling aluminum dust, getting sick, and even dying. The fact that authorities in China have shut it down tells you it's a pretty bad situation. What's unfortunate is that people are sick from factory work.

When the Foxconn factory exploded, there were reports that workers there too were inhaling aluminum dust and they found a lot of huge safety violations.

This factory is only finally getting attention because the smell was so bad it was bothering neighbors near the factory--imagine what it's like inside.

There is a precedent for this situation: late 19th century/early 20th century United States. It was a moral tragedy. And it was for the sake of greed. And saying the timing is unfortunate now because you are worried an unannounced, very slightly speed bumped MBP will be delayed is also greedy.

----------



I'm guessing this is sarcasm.

Yah....which I suppose everyone who has ever purchased an apple product has an implicit role to play. :p

Seriously, I doubt any of us really cared 2 hoots or gave a 2nd thought about the workers' safety when we were purchasing our iphones, ipads or imacs. Why are you complaining about it now? :confused:

asleep
Oct 18, 2011, 06:07 AM
Taiwanese company Catcher Technology has had to temporarily close down a factory in eastern China due to complaints of a "strange odor" coming from the building...
I smell dead people...

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlla/files/original/i%20see%20dead%20people.jpg

lucas72
Oct 18, 2011, 06:11 AM
I smell dead people...


LOOL

btw... what's that: http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=macbook+pro&mco=Nzc1MjMwNg#top-30 ?

Macbook Pro Memory Model ?!?! :confused::eek: I apologize for my English comprehension, but... can it means a Steve Jobs's commemorative model?

MacsAreBetter\
Oct 18, 2011, 06:17 AM
I'm somewhat happy about this!

Only means my MacBook Pro is going to be the 'latest model' for a little bit longer. Just means I can sell it off to some clueless stranger on Craigslist / Gumtree.

Sol
Oct 18, 2011, 06:42 AM
Apple may have to move earlier than planned to the rumoured carbon-fibre MacBooks.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384316,00.asp

chaosbunny
Oct 18, 2011, 06:55 AM
Sure they can. But then, we go back to no average person being able to own so much of technology, somewhere around 197x - early 198x. The standard of living of western civilization is based on cheap labor of what we consider symbols of our standard of living. Cars, gadgets, and so on. There aren't enough resources in the world to give everyone an iphone, a macbook pro and so on. We can only have them because most of the world doesn't, and is willing to produce it for us.

Just some thoughts ...

The question is, do we need to own so much technology, and even more important resource-wise to replace it every year? There are enough resources, they are just not evenly distributed. More or less it's been like this for centuries.

I'd gladly pay 10.000+ for a computer that lasts for 20+ years (with new software), but I can't because no one sells something like this. Why is it that the only thing an average consumer cares about is price, and not quality?

There sure was/is a lot of advertisement/social engineering going on to create something like this:

I'm somewhat happy about this!

Only means my MacBook Pro is going to be the 'latest model' for a little bit longer. Just means I can sell it off to some clueless stranger on Craigslist / Gumtree.

Badradio
Oct 18, 2011, 07:05 AM
LOOL

btw... what's that: http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=macbook+pro&mco=Nzc1MjMwNg#top-30 ?

Macbook Pro Memory Model ?!?! :confused::eek: I apologize for my English comprehension, but... can it means a Steve Jobs's commemorative model?

It's more likely a couple of placeholders for the next models, which will feature increased base RAM - most likely 8GB. You can do something in someone's memory, but you wouldn't "this is a memory edition"; it'd be more like "commemorative edition".

TheAustrianGuy
Oct 18, 2011, 07:14 AM
I'm glad my MacBook Air is already being prepared for shipment :)

shompa
Oct 18, 2011, 07:25 AM
I wonder if this is true or one of the analysts shorting Apple stock.

Remember all the wrong stories this year.

"earthquake stops motherboard shipments to Iphone/Ipad2" *wrong*
"Jonathan Ive is leaving Apple to move to UK" *wrong*
"Ipad2 is delayed" *wrong*
"FoxConn factory blows up. Will hinder iPad 2 shipments" *wrong*
"Android is crushing Apple since iPhone 4 is old" *wrong*

Each of these rumors drove down the Apple shares 10-15%.

If this is true:
I want Apple to have its own factories. 1)The competitors can't use the same factories. 2)Cheaper since there is no middleman that needs to make money.

The outsourcing craze is a way to pump shares short sight and loose in the long run. (Like AMD selling its fabs to Global Foundries. Gave them loads of money, know GloFo have extreme problems manufacture AMD chips. GloFo does not care. They can sell its wafers to other companies then AMD).

Abazigal
Oct 18, 2011, 07:30 AM
If this is true:
I want Apple to have its own factories. 1)The competitors can't use the same factories. 2)Cheaper since there is no middleman that needs to make money.

It's not without problems of its own though. Apple will need to manage those factories, and I think that is an added layer of responsibility they do not relish.

lukarak
Oct 18, 2011, 07:34 AM
Yah....which I suppose everyone who has ever purchased an apple product has an implicit role to play. :p

Seriously, I doubt any of us really cared 2 hoots or gave a 2nd thought about the workers' safety when we were purchasing our iphones, ipads or imacs. Why are you complaining about it now? :confused:

Just as same as with any other product. Most of them are made in China. Or in case of clothes, in some even cheaper country, since China is too expensive to make t-shirts for example.

Mentioning apple in this context is just trolling.

Abazigal
Oct 18, 2011, 07:35 AM
Apple may have to move earlier than planned to the rumoured carbon-fibre MacBooks.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384316,00.asp

And have them look like alienware gaming laptops? :p :mad: :eek:

thunderboltmac
Oct 18, 2011, 07:39 AM
No wonder my new mac has to an extra 2-4 weeks to arrive!!! :eek:

powers74
Oct 18, 2011, 07:43 AM
307762



I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

In the not too distant future, when the economy lands in the ditch and the dollar is worth nothing they will.

lukarak
Oct 18, 2011, 07:44 AM
Just some thoughts ...

The question is, do we need to own so much technology, and even more important resource-wise to replace it every year? There are enough resources, they are just not evenly distributed. More or less it's been like this for centuries.

I'd gladly pay 10.000+ for a computer that lasts for 20+ years (with new software), but I can't because no one sells something like this. Why is it that the only thing an average consumer cares about is price, and not quality?

There sure was/is a lot of advertisement/social engineering going on to create something like this:

There is no problem with a computer lasting 20 years. I have many of them, ie my Atari which is almost as old as i am, got it preschool. Still works like the first day, and it's not from lack of use. But the problem is what i can do with it.
I' don't belive that the world could sustain the western standard of living for 6 or 7 billion people.

JHankwitz
Oct 18, 2011, 07:50 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

That would be nice, if ouly we would be able to afford paying for it. People are already complaining that Apple equipment costs too much. Moving production back to the states would more than double the cost, and sales would tank. Without all the sales, they wouldn't be able to pay for all their innovation and the company would die.

guzhogi
Oct 18, 2011, 07:52 AM
Unfortunate timing?

These are the factories we've read about where workers are constantly inhaling aluminum dust, getting sick, and even dying. The fact that authorities in China have shut it down tells you it's a pretty bad situation. What's unfortunate is that people are sick from factory work.

When the Foxconn factory exploded, there were reports that workers there too were inhaling aluminum dust and they found a lot of huge safety violations.

This factory is only finally getting attention because the smell was so bad it was bothering neighbors near the factory--imagine what it's like inside.

There is a precedent for this situation: late 19th century/early 20th century United States. It was a moral tragedy. And it was for the sake of greed. And saying the timing is unfortunate now because you are worried an unannounced, very slightly speed bumped MBP will be delayed is also greedy.

I'm afraid more stuff like this will happen if all those right-wingers who want less regulation get their way. Who cares about the workers as long as you make record profits? [/cynicism]

I think I've spent too much time on the PRSI forums. :p

shompa
Oct 18, 2011, 08:00 AM
I bought a 13 MBP last month . Filed a return on amazon this morning because of the rumors of the late 2011 refresh. Now what? lol. I only have 30 days to return...

Why bother?

The refresh will only be a small speed bump. (Intel releases 100 mhz faster processors)

Thomas2006
Oct 18, 2011, 08:01 AM
It could always be much worse than having China make Apple's products. It could be made in Great Britain, and that is really, really scary.
What do you mean? Does Great Britain produce shoddy products or can businesses abuse workers without consequence?

JHankwitz
Oct 18, 2011, 08:07 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

Most of the increased costs related to manufacturing in the states is the unbelievable 35% fine, tax, investment, levey, or whatever you want to call it imposed by our government on US made products. Business will continue moving and staying off-shore as long as our government provides incentive to do so.

dmunz
Oct 18, 2011, 08:12 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

"No mass production or overseas workforce. WaterField bags are designed and made in San Francisco, where rent is high, labor is expensive and competition is intense. We wouldn’t go anywhere else!"

There are some things you can buy local. I've bought four bags from these guys and they are truly well made (and more expensive).

Start with the things you can get from here and show the powers that you care. Baby steps people.

FWIW
DLM

anthonylambert
Oct 18, 2011, 08:13 AM
It could always be much worse than having China make Apple's products. It could be made in Great Britain, and that is really, really scary.

Gooord Blimey.... It would be the perfect partnership! I can see the box label now.


"Designed in California by a Brit, made in the UK by some more Brits."

Steve's Barber
Oct 18, 2011, 08:18 AM
Greed, in terms of the profits demanded by corporations & shareholders, & the desire for cheap products demanded by consumers is the enemy of morality in business.

Let's not forget the demands of union labor built into consumer goods. Free daycare, full dental and 37 paid holidays off (including groundhog day).

applesith
Oct 18, 2011, 08:21 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

Yeah, not gonna happen. Macs are expensive enough.

Thunderhawks
Oct 18, 2011, 08:23 AM
The labor cost is only one factor, and not as much as a lot of people think. The Japanese have high labor cost, yet they've managed to be extremely competitive building automobiles and computers.

Apple can still source some parts from Taiwan and Korea, and move assembly back to the states, and take advantage of robotics like the Japanese do. This would provide skilled jobs.

The increased labor costs would also be offset somewhat by cheaper shipping.

The "make it in America" is a simplified mantra and ignores the fact that we live in global markets.

Since everything is driven by money, USA government at all levels , especially state, needs to change it's business unfriendly tax structure.

That is only the beginning.

The amount of labor the assembly needs (even with robotics) is not available in the US, which is why we have lots of foreign workers doing simple jobs.
Using robotics is a simple job and thus would not be highly paid.

Also, as long as you can get paid unemployment and welfare money that is higher or close to minimum wage why work.

Add to that the dumbing down of America in education (We lower the bar until everybody passes) and you have an environment where Make it in USA is an adventure!

Why would Apple want the headache of running a factory with all it's regulations and government interference.

So much easier to just order from Foxconn etc.

Consumers won't pay extra for Made in USA!

chaosbunny
Oct 18, 2011, 08:29 AM
There is no problem with a computer lasting 20 years. I have many of them, ie my Atari which is almost as old as i am, got it preschool. Still works like the first day, and it's not from lack of use. But the problem is what i can do with it.
I' don't belive that the world could sustain the western standard of living for 6 or 7 billion people.

I know I still have my C64 and Amiga500 from the 80ies. They are still working too. That's why I added "with new software" in my post. ;)

And for the other thing, just look at how much stuff is thrown away in its original box. There is so many production that goes directly to the dump. The problem is not limited resources, the problem is uneven distribution by politics and corporations.

As an example, most 3rd world countries get nothing back from selling their labour and resources. All the taxes and wealth that is generated go directly into the hands of some dictator there, organisations like the world bank (paying back debts) and ultimately the global corporations can get their profits multiple times. Africa has oil, diamonds and many valuable resources, yet the poorest general populace on the planet. The sad thing is, global politics, banks and corporations don't want to raise everyones standard to ours.

TimTheEnchanter
Oct 18, 2011, 08:41 AM
I've been to China, so I know first hand... if they're complaining about a strange odor in an urban area, then it's got to be REALLY funky. Taking the overnight train from Beijing to Shanghai, you get to see what's out there beyond the regular tourist sights and let me tell you I saw factory smoke of almost ever color along the way. Worse on was a dual stack of jet black with an almost fluorescent yellow smoke. God knows what that was.

daxomni
Oct 18, 2011, 08:47 AM
Taiwanese company Catcher Technology has had to temporarily close down a factory in eastern China due to complaints of a "strange odor" coming from the building. The timing is unfortunate as we've been hearing rumors that Apple was planning on a small MacBook Pro refresh as early as this week. Rumors had suggested a processor bump (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/13/apple-may-processor-bump-macbook-pros-in-2011/) was due late this year, and new part numbers (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/13/new-macbook-pro-part-numbers-suggest-updated-models-coming-soon/) have suggested an imminent launch.
If the "odor" is enough to close a factory in China it's probably a lot worse than just a bad smell. And it's not like nobody has suffered long-lived health effects from chemicals used in the production of Apple hardware. But yeah, let's pretend the only story here is how it affects the speed of the next processor bump for people thousands of miles away.

guzhogi
Oct 18, 2011, 08:51 AM
Most of the increased costs related to manufacturing in the states is the unbelievable 35% fine, tax, investment, levey, or whatever you want to call it imposed by our government on US made products. Business will continue moving and staying off-shore as long as our government provides incentive to do so.

Honest question: what's the tax rate in other countries?

Let's not forget the demands of union labor built into consumer goods. Free daycare, full dental and 37 paid holidays off (including groundhog day).

Another honest question: how much does daycare, dental & paid holidays cost compared to stuff like CEO salaries and other compensation? I'm not saying people should be paid to get, what I feel, is something trivial like groundhog's day off, but what's so bad about getting free dental or daycare? I've met a few people in the US who had jobs but didn't get medical insurance. Something came up, out of their control, and they got hurt & couldn't get treated properly.

Plus, do the CEOs and other corporate executives get health insurance and day care? If so, why do they get it and not the workers? I remember a year or two ago this new senator was complaining about how he had to wait a few months for his government provided health insurance to kick in. However, he was also against having the Obamacare package. I find it a little hypocritical that executives and other people in power want all of these services provided to them, but not to their workers.

ericinboston
Oct 18, 2011, 08:52 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

Exactly. I can't stand that sticker on the back of Apple products. Who are they trying to impress????!!! And "assembled in China" implies, well, that it was "assembled"...who MANUFACTURED all the pieces?! Yeah, doubt it was folks in the USA.

90% of the stuff folks by in the USA is "designed" in the USA but created and/or assembled outside the USA. This is part of the reason why USA has been suffering so long (at least 10 years) in unemployment...because there are extremely few jobs in the USA where something is actually built.

bpaluzzi
Oct 18, 2011, 09:02 AM
This is part of the reason why USA has been suffering so long (at least 10 years) in unemployment...because there are extremely few jobs in the USA where something is actually built.

Right, because the unemployment rates in the BRIC countries is so much better than the US :rolleyes:

Those manufacturing countries have much higher unemployment rates than the US. Bringing large-scale manufacturing back to the US will either lead to massive price increases (if unionized US workers get the jobs) or more jobs taken by illegal immigrants (the more likely scenario) and more bellyaching.

gnasher729
Oct 18, 2011, 09:03 AM
If the "odor" is enough to close a factory in China it's probably a lot worse than just a bad smell. And it's not like nobody has suffered long-lived health effects from chemicals used in the production of Apple hardware. But yeah, let's pretend the only story here is how it affects the speed of the next processor bump for people thousands of miles away.

Past history shows that risking the health of employees leads to loss of contracts with Apple when found out.

Les Kern
Oct 18, 2011, 09:06 AM
Don't like the smell, then take some of that 80BN and build a plant here.
Otherwise I don't ****** care.
Flat-earthers are fools, and corporatists are just plain scum.

nylonsteel
Oct 18, 2011, 09:09 AM
re original article - "strange odor"

"...due to complaints of a "strange odor" coming from the building..."

I wouldnt worry about it if it smelled like pungent garlic and hints of fish sauce

kiljoy616
Oct 18, 2011, 09:14 AM
I'm sure apple will demand the dead bodies removed from the factory.
In my opinion the factory ought not overwork their employees to the point of death, but who am I really?

And why should they not work their employee to death? You make it sound like that a bad thing in our little world of Capitalism. Better than all the poop on wall street messing up good old NYC. :rolleyes::D

ed724
Oct 18, 2011, 09:16 AM
Unfortunate timing?

These are the factories we've read about where workers are constantly inhaling aluminum dust, getting sick, and even dying. The fact that authorities in China have shut it down tells you it's a pretty bad situation. What's unfortunate is that people are sick from factory work.

When the Foxconn factory exploded, there were reports that workers there too were inhaling aluminum dust and they found a lot of huge safety violations.

This factory is only finally getting attention because the smell was so bad it was bothering neighbors near the factory--imagine what it's like inside.

There is a precedent for this situation: late 19th century/early 20th century United States. It was a moral tragedy. And it was for the sake of greed. And saying the timing is unfortunate now because you are worried an unannounced, very slightly speed bumped MBP will be delayed is also greedy.

----------




So, because a US company is having it's products manufactured in China, and the they don't have stringent safety protocols in place (by their choice) Apple should tell them to take a hike ? I suppose there's some merit to that argument, but in the real world, we know that's not going to happen. Of course people could just stop buying Apple products too. We know that's not going to happen. Or, the Chinese factories could revamp, raise the cost of the supplies to Apple, Apple raises the price of its products, sales go down, then everybody get laid off. Of course Apple could take some it's profits and offer to update the factory, but ultimately would have no 'real' control of the process and basically be throwing money down the drain. So, as long as the demand exists, and people want work due to the demand, and there's huge profits to be made. It's not going to change. Ultimately IMO, the factory making products is solely responsible. It's up to it's owner/operators to do the right thing. If the government over there has to get involved, so be it. Saying it's "Greed" is ridiculous. It's more like "human nature". You might, just might find a handful of people that when having the opportunity to become wealthy, would consider all the ramifications and possibly turn that opportunity down.

kiljoy616
Oct 18, 2011, 09:22 AM
Past history shows that risking the health of employees leads to loss of contracts with Apple when found out.

Not sure now, but there was something about Steve and he did not like when the workers where not looked after. I Just don't remember where I read it.

So a few days maybe a week of delay like that matters any more but then that just my opinion, don't know about the Otaku fanclub. :)

----------

So, because a US company is having it's products manufactured in China, and the they don't have stringent safety protocols in place (by their choice) Apple should tell them to take a hike ? I suppose there's some merit to that argument, but in the real world, we know that's not going to happen. Of course people could just stop buying Apple products too. We know that's not going to happen. Or, the Chinese factories could revamp, raise the cost of the supplies to Apple, Apple raises the price of its products, sales go down, then everybody get laid off. Of course Apple could take some it's profits and offer to update the factory, but ultimately would have no 'real' control of the process and basically be throwing money down the drain. So, as long as the demand exists, and people want work due to the demand, and there's huge profits to be made. It's not going to change. Ultimately IMO, the factory making products is solely responsible. It's up to it's owner/operators to do the right thing. If the government over there has to get involved, so be it. Saying it's "Greed" is ridiculous. It's more like "human nature". You might, just might find a handful of people that when having the opportunity to become wealthy, would consider all the ramifications and possibly turn that opportunity down.

Your making good sense, way to much, most of it will sail over poster head. :D Still nice try.

lifeinhd
Oct 18, 2011, 09:24 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

It can't happen. Why? Simple economics. All countries have a comparative advantage in producing goods for which it has the lowest opportunity cost. This means there is no incentive in the Unites States to produce unibody enclosures when our opportunity cost is, say, research and development of software that is potentially worth billions. Looking at this another way: let's say it takes the United States one unit of labor to produce a unibody enclosure, and one unit of labor to do software research and development. Let's say it takes China 2 units of labor to create a unibody enclosure, and 12 units of labor to do the same software R&D. Let's say each country has 24 units of labor. If the United States were to allocate half its resources to developing unibodies, the opportunity cost is 12 softwares. If China allocates half its resources to producing unibodies, its opportunity cost is 1 software-- not as large of a missed opportunity as the United States. The idea is for each country to focus on producing in the area with the least opportunity cost, and trade for items with the highest opportunity cost.

So I guess that's the long-winded explanation of why the manufacturing of unibodies won't be coming to the States. :o

hobo.hopkins
Oct 18, 2011, 09:26 AM
90% of the stuff folks by in the USA is "designed" in the USA but created and/or assembled outside the USA. This is part of the reason why USA has been suffering so long (at least 10 years) in unemployment...because there are extremely few jobs in the USA where something is actually built.

So...what's your point? In principle, you won't find a single person who disagrees with you. Everyone would love more American factories and jobs. Unfortunately, the current tax policies incentivise companies to move overseas. That's just the unfortunate reality. Until that changes, you won't see companies moving manufacturing into America.

daxomni
Oct 18, 2011, 09:44 AM
Everyone would love more American factories and jobs.
Not everyone would love more American factories and jobs. Certainly not the executives who sent them thousands of miles away in the first place. Or the stockholders who are benefiting from cheaper labor elsewhere. Or the oil companies who benefit from shipping everything from far flung suppliers to distant consumers several thousand miles away. We haven't figured out how to stop the market from trashing our economy. We've only figured out how to slow it down. From the perspective of the American worker the Great Recession is not much different than the Great Depression except that it's in slow motion. The upside is that the severity of the crash has been lessened somewhat. The downside is that it is likely to take far longer to recover from it. And the blatant war profiteering that brought America to the top of the food chain in the past won't be coming to the rescue this time. We've long since pissed away most of our manufacturing facilities and technology so that plum will be going to Asia along with most of our remaining money.

carlgo
Oct 18, 2011, 09:45 AM
There is an odd synergy between Chinese trolls and what seem to be tea baggers. Both hate unions, worker's rights, environmental controls and the middle class and are in favor of big untaxed and unregulated corporations.

guzhogi
Oct 18, 2011, 09:52 AM
So, because a US company is having it's products manufactured in China, and the they don't have stringent safety protocols in place (by their choice) Apple should tell them to take a hike ? I suppose there's some merit to that argument, but in the real world, we know that's not going to happen. Of course people could just stop buying Apple products too. We know that's not going to happen. Or, the Chinese factories could revamp, raise the cost of the supplies to Apple, Apple raises the price of its products, sales go down, then everybody get laid off. Of course Apple could take some it's profits and offer to update the factory, but ultimately would have no 'real' control of the process and basically be throwing money down the drain. So, as long as the demand exists, and people want work due to the demand, and there's huge profits to be made. It's not going to change. Ultimately IMO, the factory making products is solely responsible. It's up to it's owner/operators to do the right thing. If the government over there has to get involved, so be it. Saying it's "Greed" is ridiculous. It's more like "human nature". You might, just might find a handful of people that when having the opportunity to become wealthy, would consider all the ramifications and possibly turn that opportunity down.

Unfortunately, that's too true. :(


Not everyone would love more American factories and jobs. Certainly not the executives who sent them thousands of miles away in the first place. Or the stockholders who are benefiting from cheaper labor elsewhere. Or the oil companies who benefit from shipping everything from far flung suppliers to distant consumers several thousand miles away. We haven't figured out how to stop the market from trashing our economy. We've only figured out how to slow it down. From the perspective of the American worker the Great Recession is not much different than the Great Depression except that it's in slow motion. The upside is that the severity of the crash has been lessened somewhat. The downside is that it is likely to take far longer to recover from it. And the blatant war profiteering that brought America to the top of the food chain in the past won't be coming to the rescue this time. We've long since pissed away most of our manufacturing facilities and technology so that plum will be going to Asia along with most of our remaining money.

Also true. While there may aspects of having a factory in the US (more jobs for the US workers), you brought a big negative.

For those people who dislike unions because they try to raise wages, that's a bit of a two-edged sword. While higher wages increase the cost of a product/service, those higher wages also mean those workers can also afford more stuff.

Mr. Retrofire
Oct 18, 2011, 09:58 AM
LOOL

btw... what's that: http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=macbook+pro&mco=Nzc1MjMwNg#top-30 ?

Macbook Pro Memory Model ?!?! :confused::eek: I apologize for my English comprehension, but... can it means a Steve Jobs's commemorative model?

The links:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/ME_17_2_33_MBP?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY
http://store.apple.com/us/product/ME_17_2_4_MBP_PREV?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY

describe obviously:
A 2.33 GHz 17" MBP (2.2 GHz in Oct. 2011)
A 2.40 GHz 17" MBP (2.3 GHz in Oct. 2011)

And Apple says:
"Ships: Coming in November"

Mad-B-One
Oct 18, 2011, 10:13 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

if they do, the price of the computers will increase a lot.

...and then you look at your AMD Phenom II chips. Made in Germany, assembled in Malaysia. Now, you tell me that Germany is cheaper to produce in than in the United States? I don't think so. AMD CPUs are cheaper than comparable Intels. Also: ABB Robotics produces in Germany. So, it is even cheap to automize and get service if things break.

I live and work in the United States. I know I make now less with a BS than working as a Student Worker in Germany. Now, if you argue with production costs, you are wrong because production costs depend on productivity and that is still higher in USA and EU. :)

Michaelgtrusa
Oct 18, 2011, 10:44 AM
Ok so less suicide nets.

Ping Guo
Oct 18, 2011, 11:12 AM
The "make it in America" is a simplified mantra and ignores the fact that we live in global markets.

Since everything is driven by money, USA government at all levels , especially state, needs to change it's business unfriendly tax structure.

That is only the beginning.

The amount of labor the assembly needs (even with robotics) is not available in the US, which is why we have lots of foreign workers doing simple jobs.
Using robotics is a simple job and thus would not be highly paid.

Also, as long as you can get paid unemployment and welfare money that is higher or close to minimum wage why work.

Add to that the dumbing down of America in education (We lower the bar until everybody passes) and you have an environment where Make it in USA is an adventure!

Why would Apple want the headache of running a factory with all it's regulations and government interference.

So much easier to just order from Foxconn etc.

Consumers won't pay extra for Made in USA!

It's government "interference" that guarantees fair working wages and safe conditions, not to mention protecting the environment.

Don't blame it on consumers - plenty would, and do, if given the chance. Corporations who pay no taxes and get huge incentives while offshoring their labor and money would be the likely culprits.

I hear a lot of excuses and whinging about deregulation, yet we're far more deregulated now than when we were a manufacturing superpower. Germany and Japan, the two most technologically advanced countries, manage to do pretty well with high labor costs, and pesky government interference protecting workers and the environment.

Don't think there isn't a hidden cost to doing business in China either. Even Foxconn is considering moving at least part of their operations back to Taiwan and using more robotics as I mentioned. The Pearl River Delta manufacturing sector is facing a labor shortage, and has been for several years.

ade2bee
Oct 18, 2011, 11:36 AM
I hope someday they can bring production to the states.

Made and Designed in California

Do you know anyone whole work for $10 a week or pay $3-4000 for a Mac computer product?

If not dream on!

arn
Oct 18, 2011, 12:53 PM
The links:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/ME_17_2_33_MBP?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY
http://store.apple.com/us/product/ME_17_2_4_MBP_PREV?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY

describe obviously:
A 2.33 GHz 17" MBP (2.2 GHz in Oct. 2011)
A 2.40 GHz 17" MBP (2.3 GHz in Oct. 2011)

And Apple says:
"Ships: Coming in November"

These are memory modules for old Core 2 Duo MacBook Pros from like 3-4 years ago.

arn

gnasher729
Oct 18, 2011, 01:09 PM
Not sure now, but there was something about Steve and he did not like when the workers where not looked after. I Just don't remember where I read it.

Apple issues a report about every year. A contract with one company painting some parts for I don't know what Apple device was cancelled after employees developed health problems. A major thing is that Apple doesn't like it at all if agents charge employees money to find them a job; last year about $3.4 million dollars were refunded to employees. Another company lost a contract because of all cases of under 16-year olds employed, two thirds happened at the some company.

Unobtrusive
Oct 18, 2011, 02:28 PM
It seems that Apple already quietly updated the current line-up of MacBook Pros to feature Bluetooth 4.0 technology! It seems so that iPhone 4S users can benefit.

The first ever to report on this with screenshots: Baum Design - Apple Quietly Updates MacBook Pro’s with Bluetooth 4 (http://baumdesign.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/apple-quietly-updates-macbook-pros-with-bluetooth-4-0-1/) on October 18th, 2011.

Can this be? So perhaps the new Pros will only have processor improvements, and perhaps RAM/HDD/SSD increases? (As Lion seems to struggle with even 4GB.)

It would be nice to see SSD become a standard across the whole line.

oiuh151
Oct 20, 2011, 11:04 PM
It seems that Apple already quietly updated the current line-up of MacBook Pros to feature Bluetooth 4.0 technology! It seems so that iPhone 4S users can benefit.

The first ever to report on this with screenshots: Baum Design - Apple Quietly Updates MacBook Pro’s with Bluetooth 4 (http://baumdesign.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/apple-quietly-updates-macbook-pros-with-bluetooth-4-0-1/) on October 18th, 2011.

Can this be? So perhaps the new Pros will only have processor improvements, and perhaps RAM/HDD/SSD increases? (As Lion seems to struggle with even 4GB.)

It would be nice to see SSD become a standard across the whole line.

That's the Bluetooth software version. Read the only comment on that page.

MrNomNoms
Oct 21, 2011, 03:50 AM
The labor cost is only one factor, and not as much as a lot of people think. The Japanese have high labor cost, yet they've managed to be extremely competitive building automobiles and computers.

Apple can still source some parts from Taiwan and Korea, and move assembly back to the states, and take advantage of robotics like the Japanese do. This would provide skilled jobs.

The increased labor costs would also be offset somewhat by cheaper shipping.

Which is a ridiculous conclusion given that over 62% (which is growing each quarter to the point that less than 20% of sales will be from the US market) of sales come from markets outside the United States - the solution isn't rock bottom wages but explaining why employers have to pay for the healthcare and superannuation of employees when in most other countries employees pay taxes to receive such services in the form of public services. There is a reason why the US is so massively uncompetitive but too bad government-o-phobia seems to be the in thing these days in the US.