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James Philp
May 13, 2005, 07:08 PM
PowerMac Single 1.8GHz:
999.00
(850.21 ex VAT)

1.8GHz PowerPC G5
600MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
Expandable to 4GB SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA
8x SuperDrive
Three PCI Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem

iMac 17" 2GHz:
999.00
(850.21 ex VAT)

17-inch widescreen LCD - Add like 300!
2GHz PowerPC G5 - Faster!
667MHz frontside bus - Faster!
512K L2 cache - Same
512MB DDR400 SDRAM - Twice as much!
160GB Serial ATA hard drive - Twice as large!
Slot-load 8x SuperDrive - Same
ATI Radeon 9600 (Worse?)
128MB DDR video memory - Twice as large!
56K internal modem - Same

So, for the same price you loose 67MHz on the FSB, get half the RAM, half the HD, half the VRAM, NO screen, but you do get 3 PCI slots! - WTF are you up to Apple?

CanadaRAM
May 13, 2005, 07:11 PM
The single 1.8 is overdue for upgrade, the others have passed it by. Right now it's not a great value --- but it IS an upgradeable machine with PCI slots for under a ton.

pdpfilms
May 13, 2005, 07:22 PM
ooh, ouch..... i wonder if they're aware of this.... James, your tar fits the post quite well!

James Philp
May 13, 2005, 07:24 PM
ooh, ouch..... i wonder if they're aware of this.... James, your tar fits the post quite well!
not sure if I understand! is that a compliment or sarcasm?
Sorry to doubt you if you're genuine

jeremy.king
May 13, 2005, 09:50 PM
and for 50.00 more you can get a

a smaller display
slower CPU
smaller hard drive
and slower video card

Also known as a 12" powerbook. Three different machines, three different target markets, three very similar price points...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

WhyTF are you posting this crap anyway?

uaaerospace
May 13, 2005, 10:18 PM
and for 50.00 more you can get a

a smaller display
slower CPU
smaller hard drive
and slower video card

Also known as a 12" powerbook. Three different machines, three different target markets, three very similar price points...


Hmm, a good point made my James. If someone was in the market for a new computer and debating the 1.8 PM verses the iMac, this might be something they should know. It also shows how the professional PowerMac is behind the consumer iMac. Hmm...you're right, 3 different machines, 3 different markets, but it does it make sense for the PM to be less powerful than the consumer machine? No, and I expect Apple will fix this in the future by dropping the 1.8. It's just a tired set-up now.

fitinferno
May 13, 2005, 10:26 PM
and for 50.00 more you can get a

a smaller display
slower CPU
smaller hard drive
and slower video card

Also known as a 12" powerbook. Three different machines, three different target markets, three very similar price points...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

WhyTF are you posting this crap anyway?

It's good he posted something like this...it makes me very pleased I have my Powerbook and not some old PM PoS that I can't haul around anywhere...:D

James Philp
May 13, 2005, 10:30 PM
Three different machines, three different target markets, three very similar price points...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

WhyTF are you posting this crap anyway?
I'm not sure.
Aren't the PM and iMac both desktops? I see the markets as: laptop, low desktop, mid desktop and pro desktop.
If two machines are BOTH DESKTOPS and have the SAME PRICE, i would say they are in the SAME MARKET (ie the one that wants a desktop for around 1000.)
How many PM users use the PCI slots?
And what's with all the :rolleyes:
Crap? Thanks, but some people have found this interesting. Sorry you do not.

Erendiox
May 13, 2005, 11:05 PM
I'm not sure.
Aren't the PM and iMac both desktops? I see the markets as: laptop, low desktop, mid desktop and pro desktop.
If two machines are BOTH DESKTOPS and have the SAME PRICE, i would say they are in the SAME MARKET (ie the one that wants a desktop for around 1000.)
How many PM users use the PCI slots?
And what's with all the :rolleyes:
Crap? Thanks, but some people have found this interesting. Sorry you do not.

I agree, it is very interesting. They are both desktops, have the same price, and the consumer computer beats out the professional in many more ways that one. This is something I did not realize and I appreciate the fact the poster took the time to share this.

Its not crap. Its something everyone should be aware of.

Macky-Mac
May 14, 2005, 12:57 AM
I'm not sure.
Aren't the PM and iMac both desktops? I see the markets as: laptop, low desktop, mid desktop and pro desktop.
If two machines are BOTH DESKTOPS and have the SAME PRICE, i would say they are in the SAME MARKET (ie the one that wants a desktop for around 1000.)....

Actually these two machines are addressing two different markets......there's the "I HATE the all-in-one concept" market and the "I love the all-in-one" market.

Having the two machines at around the same price point is merely addressing the different preferences of buyers who are wiling to spend similar amounts of money.

Anyway, I think that people often try to draw the line between "Pro" and "Consumer" a little too finely.

solvs
May 14, 2005, 01:06 AM
And you just noticed this? :p

I think we noticed a couple of weeks ago when the new iMacs were released and the lowend PowerMac remained un-updated (and the same price at that). The single G5 is a suckers bet against an iMac, unless you must have PCI slots and already have a monitor. Even then. Me thinks that's the point. Apple wants you to buy the iMac.

To answer your question... no you are not missing anything. Lowend P'Mac sucks at this point. Hopefully it gets at least a modest speed bump in a few months.

James Philp
May 14, 2005, 07:08 AM
I'm sorry this thread offends so many of you!
I just thought, given this evidence, no-one would really see the 1.8 as a good deal, and would make the fork-out to a higher model.
I was simply trying to point it out for people who hadn't maybe thought about it.
Again, sorry for causing such offense!

James Philp
May 14, 2005, 07:10 AM
Especially considering the buying advice on this very site says:
PowerMac
Last Release: April 27, 2005
Days Since Update: 17 (Average = 197)
Recommendation: Buy Now! - Product just updated
Special Notes: none.
I think a special not would be that the 1.8 sucks right!? Especially seeing as everyone seems to "know" this!

iGary
May 14, 2005, 07:17 AM
Yeah.

I think we are all hoping that Apple is planning on doing some further enhancements to the PowerMac line.

SpaceMagic
May 14, 2005, 07:30 AM
Wow! Really interesting! Thanks James... I have a PowerMac G5 and I never intend using the PCI slots anyway!

Thing is, I have the Best Single CPU 1.8 G5... the VERY first!

8 Ram slots, 8GB max, 160gb ram, 900mhz FSB.

I'm very proud of it.

James Philp
May 14, 2005, 07:32 AM
160gb ram,

I'm very proud of it.
I would be too, WOW! :D :p

edesignuk
May 14, 2005, 07:35 AM
WhyTF are you posting this crap anyway?It's not crap :rolleyes:

iMac an PM both sit on your desk and stay there, a laptop doesn't conform to that rule, and so is completely separate.

I hadn't really noticed this before...the entry level PM is now a complete rip-off when compared to what you can get (from the same company no less) for the same money.

SpaceMagic
May 14, 2005, 07:39 AM
I would be too, WOW! :D :p


Oh to get carried away with ram :p

You know what I mean't ;)

Dont Hurt Me
May 14, 2005, 07:39 AM
Apple has done this before just pushing imac to the edge of Powermac performance. Its clear this model Powermac if anything gets dumbed down at every update. Apple wants product lines to compete with theirselfs rather then just selling machine people want. I still say many would love a tower half the size of powermac running 1 fast cpu and many have no need for a power consuming 2nd cpu that doesnt do much most of the time. Apple will not sell this machine, its either the 2 cpu game or its the monitor game. Funny when you think about it. This is done to get people on the fence or over the fence to the holygrail powermac. In my view it sometimes chases off people to get a PC so they can spec it to exactly what they want and not play this game. Cant tell you how many times i wrestled with Powermac vs iMac through the years.

yellow
May 14, 2005, 07:48 AM
How many PM users use the PCI slots?

There are more differences then that..

1) PCI slots.
2) PM can have 2x as much RAM
3) PM can hold MANY more internal disks

Dispite the similarities, the PM line is the 'professional' line. The iMac is the 'home user' line.

junior
May 14, 2005, 07:56 AM
There are more differences then that..

1) PCI slots.
2) PM can have 2x as much RAM
3) PM can hold MANY more internal disks

Dispite the similarities, the PM line is the 'professional' line. The iMac is the 'home user' line.


I thought the G5 PM's could only fit 2 internal HDs in them?

James Philp
May 14, 2005, 07:59 AM
1) PCI slots.
2) PM can have 2x as much RAM
3) PM can hold MANY more internal disks

Dispite the similarities, the PM line is the 'professional' line. The iMac is the 'home user' line.
True, but i wonder how many people there are that buy the PM just because it is "better" (surely it is!?) and NEVER open it up! I think my thread was just trying to point out that this is not always the case.
I want a powermac for my next comp for sure (unless i succumb to replace my PB G3 Pismo), but definitely WONT be buying the 1.8GHz from this evidence - it's a bum deal for sure!
That's what i'm trying to say - the 1.8 is a really badly specced machine, it's worth considering the Dual 2 at least if you're going for a PM.

James Philp
May 14, 2005, 08:00 AM
Dispite the similarities, the PM line is the 'professional' line. The iMac is the 'home user' line.
Plus:
OUT OF THE BOX the iMac would be a better professional tool!
I was comparing UNMODIFIED models, not specced out machines

SpaceMagic
May 14, 2005, 08:37 AM
I thought the G5 PM's could only fit 2 internal HDs in them?

You can get 3rd Party mods to fit in more disks. However, Apple sells this machine as taking 2 Hard disks. They wont support modifications.

yellow
May 14, 2005, 09:06 AM
I was comparing UNMODIFIED models, not specced out machines

To me that makes no sense. You're not taking everything into account. But it's your thread, steer it where you want to.

James Philp
May 14, 2005, 09:08 AM
To me that makes no sense. You're not taking everything into account. But it's your thread, steer it where you want to.
Well for a start you wouldn't be able to use the PM unless you already had a screen!

stevep
May 14, 2005, 10:05 AM
originally posted by Yellow
Dispite the similarities, the PM line is the 'professional' line. The iMac is the 'home user' line.
I don't necessarily agree that there is a definite divide between Pro and Home machines. I've seen loads of people using iMacs to earn a living with. I use an iBook for work. Similarly there are gamers who use a PM for anything but work.
You buy what you can afford and/or justify, irrespective of the label somebody else gives it. Yes, if I had the money I would buy a PowerBook, and it might help me get my work done quicker (though I doubt it, I can only type so fast).
With reference to the original post, if I had 999 to spend I'd get an iMac over a PM any day - its a no-brainer.

QCassidy352
May 14, 2005, 02:15 PM
thanks for pointing this out james; it's interesting to see the comparison. Ignore the detractors - there will always be people who want to snipe for no reason.

solvs
May 15, 2005, 03:00 AM
Again, sorry for causing such offense!
No biggie, that why the :p in my post. At least nobody called you Captain Obvious or anything. ;) Sorry, we're a sarcastic lot. :D

Lucky8
May 18, 2005, 02:05 AM
So are the Single 1.8 G5 any good?
I can get it used for a 'lil over $1,000

baummer
May 18, 2005, 10:21 AM
I think ultimately, it's the buyer's decision. Sure, it may seem a bit daft to purchase a PM 1.8 when the iMac equivalent is better. But, if you don't have the need for an all-in-one system, the PM would be your best bet, especially if you have an existing monitor.

Mord
May 18, 2005, 10:50 AM
apple should have updated the single, 1.8, they will probably replace it with a single 2GHz g5 with a 9600 standard at wwdc at a slightly lower price.

bodeh6
May 18, 2005, 07:05 PM
Actually the 128MB ATI Radeon 9600 is better then the NVidia 5200. So other then expandability, the iMac is a much better machine.

Mord
May 19, 2005, 01:49 AM
but for $50 you can upgrade to a 9600XT which is better than the imacs card

Lucky8
May 20, 2005, 02:35 PM
Just pulled the trigger on Dual 1.8 G5 for $1500 (EDU Sale Section). :cool:
Am I eligible for $100 rebate?

BrianKonarsMac
Jun 4, 2005, 12:44 PM
and for 50.00 more you can get a

a smaller display
slower CPU
smaller hard drive
and slower video card

Also known as a 12" powerbook. Three different machines, three different target markets, three very similar price points...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

WhyTF are you posting this crap anyway?


3 different machines, yes. 3 different markets, yes. The machines should be designed for their target market though, and a pro series tower being behind a consumer targeted machine is pathetic. Not to mention for the same price not only do you get better hardware, but a 17" LCD...(non reusable but still...i'll take a free 17" lcd with my power mac purchase thank you).