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MacBytes
May 16, 2005, 08:50 AM
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Category: News and Press Releases
Link: UK threatened with iPod tax (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050516095005)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Applespider
May 16, 2005, 08:53 AM
Fine - so long as they cut the prices of CDs and downloads for those of us not 'stealing' music. :mad:

James Philp
May 16, 2005, 08:54 AM
WTF WTF WTF!!???
This had better NOT happen!
NONE of the music on my iPod is stuff I didn't pay for!
What do damn special about the iPod? At least apple have made it "difficult" to put the music onto a computer from the iPod!
Why not just put extra tax on all computers and all HDs - as they, at some point, MAY have illegal music put on them!

This can't be lawful, can it?
What about every other mp3 player on the market? Some of them make it a lot easier to transfer music!
This is a disgrace!

Music industry - do you possibly want more money? Duh - Yeah please!

Blue Velvet
May 16, 2005, 08:55 AM
Although members of the music biz might be interested, I think the UK Govt. may have different priorities on their hands.

Will be interesting to see how the sleazing of the lobbyists takes place.

It's one of the biggest crocks of manure I've heard of for a long time, though.

James Philp
May 16, 2005, 08:59 AM
The iPod, in fact, DOES NOT download music, or allow P2P sharing so WTF!?
If you tax anything it should be usage over the internet - that's how you get the tracks and share them anyway! - on the basis that some of that traffic will be illegal downloads of music!
This is bullcrap, I can't believe there is any legality in this!
I'm getting very angry at this. Once again, the iPod seems to bear the brunt, when Apple have done everything they can to stop poeple sharing music with an iPod, even putting "Don't Steal Music" on the iPod packaging! What other music players have this?

James Philp
May 16, 2005, 09:02 AM
It's like taxing all CD player in the theory that some of the music played on them would be burnt from illegally downloaded music!

Fender2112
May 16, 2005, 09:47 AM
That just sucks. It sounds like bad policy to make laws based on assumptions. How exactly would this tax be distributed among artists and copywrite holders. If this passes, I'll write a song, copywrite it, and collect my little slice of the pile. :D

Nickygoat
May 16, 2005, 09:52 AM
I prefer the suggestion I read a while ago (on The Register?) about adding a surcharge to broadband tariffs, and then not pursuing users of P2P networks, and allowing them to download as much as they like. The extra tax going to the artists and copy right holders. The reason it was mooted for broadband users was that if you didn't have internet access you weren't going to download music anyway, and doing it through dial-up is purgatory in itself :p. Can't see the BPI ever accepting that though - it's far more fun to sue your own customers.
I have to disagree with the guy quoted in the article saying that downloading was destroying the music industry. Don't the BPI's own figures show unit volumes increasing year on year? The problem they have is that unit prices are decreasing so they're making less money due to the entrance of internet sellers, and probably more importantly, Tesco into music sales. My heart doesn't bleed for them it has to be said.

mpw
May 16, 2005, 09:55 AM
Although members of the music biz might be interested, I think the UK Govt. may have different priorities on their hands....

I don’t know how the music industry would implement this. Are they going to force retailers or manufacturers to hand over payment on each mp3 player sold? I can’t see that happening. Or are they planning to get the UK Government to hand this ‘tax’ over to them from an additional VAT return? Again I can’t see that happening (even less chance getting cash out of the Government than out of Apple/Creative/Sony etc.).

Of course there is an import tax of 3% on iPods already so the administration of the tax would be simply enough to raise that to say 10% but they’ll still have the problem of getting this out of HMC&E, blood from a stone anyone?

If a ‘tax’ is raised it’ll be the Government who’ll benefit not the industry.

It's like taxing all CD player in the theory that some of the music played on them would be burnt from illegally downloaded music

This isn’t without precedent, it was reported last year that all future LCD monitors with DVI inputs are going to get an extra 14% import duty on them coming into the EU because they could be used to display TV.

Bakey
May 16, 2005, 10:10 AM
Arrr **** it!! They're right you know!! Why not just say to hell with it all and let them add an additional tax to the purchase of that video/DVD recorder "just in case" or to that new radio you're about to purchase "just in case".

Hey!! What the hell, go on add an additonal tax to every CD-R/DVD-R/VHS video cassette/music cassette/Mini-disc/hard-drive [you've got the drift already...] -- what a load of old tosh!?!?!

Didn't the Canadian's recently have something along these lines added to every MP3 player sold?

Nickygoat
May 16, 2005, 10:12 AM
Didn't the Canadian's recently have something along these lines added to every MP3 player sold?
Yeah - it was scrapped as unconstitutional, I think.

Sharewaredemon
May 16, 2005, 10:58 AM
Arrr **** it!! They're right you know!! Why not just say to hell with it all and let them add an additional tax to the purchase of that video/DVD recorder "just in case" or to that new radio you're about to purchase "just in case".

Hey!! What the hell, go on add an additonal tax to every CD-R/DVD-R/VHS video cassette/music cassette/Mini-disc/hard-drive [you've got the drift already...] -- what a load of old tosh!?!?!

Didn't the Canadian's recently have something along these lines added to every MP3 player sold?


We used to have a blank media levy on the iPod, it was recently scrapped, I think the arguement was that every hard drive would need to have this as well.

AlmostThere
May 16, 2005, 11:29 AM
Fine - so long as they cut the prices of CDs and downloads for those of us not 'stealing' music

Alternatively, portable music players can be sold without the tax if they are hardware limited to play only DRM'd tracks. iPods and other players would be fitted with a "Fritz-chip" style restriction so that they only play protected AAC / WMA / whatever.

Any player (e.g. current mp3 players) capable of playing unprotected music costs a bit more for the the extra freedom that these devices offer which helps cover abuses of the system and compensate artists for lost revenue.

People who are prepared to offer the music producers a cast iron guarantee that they will not, or in fact cannot, play pirated music are rewarded with lower device prices.

Such devices would be supplied with software that adds the necessary DRM into music imported from CD making ripped files playable only on N specific devices. Although potentially offering the download-burn-rip bypass, this has already been seen to be acceptable to content producers, especially as files could not be distributed.

Sharewaredemon
May 16, 2005, 11:34 AM
Alternatively, portable music players can be sold without the tax if they are hardware limited to play only DRM'd tracks. iPods and other players would be fitted with a "Fritz-chip" style restriction so that they only play protected AAC / WMA / whatever.

Any player (e.g. current mp3 players) capable of playing unprotected music costs a bit more for the the extra freedom that these devices offer which helps cover abuses of the system and compensate artists for lost revenue.

People who are prepared to offer the music producers a cast iron guarantee that they will not, or in fact cannot, play pirated music are rewarded with lower device prices.

Such devices would be supplied with software that adds the necessary DRM into music imported from CD making ripped files playable only on N specific devices. Although potentially offering the download-burn-rip bypass, this has already been seen to be acceptable to content producers, especially as files could not be distributed.

This makes sense, but there is a way to get legal music that ins't DRM'd, for example, if you rip a cd you bought. These MP3s are legal to use on your iPod.

AlmostThere
May 16, 2005, 01:55 PM
This makes sense, but there is a way to get legal music that ins't DRM'd, for example, if you rip a cd you bought. These MP3s are legal to use on your iPod.

The ripping process would insert the necessary DRM layer for your iPod(s) creating DRM-AAC files, as I believe ITMS does now. Should you upgrade your iPod, the software could just rebuild the necessary keys.

It's not watertight but, as with ITMS, good enough.

edesignuk
May 16, 2005, 02:02 PM
http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/homernotimpressed.jpg

And neither am I :mad: They'd better not get away with this.

Jaffa Cake
May 16, 2005, 02:06 PM
It's like taxing all CD player in the theory that some of the music played on them would be burnt from illegally downloaded music!Shhh! Don't go giving them ideas! ;)

Sharewaredemon
May 16, 2005, 02:56 PM
The ripping process would insert the necessary DRM layer for your iPod(s) creating DRM-AAC files, as I believe ITMS does now. Should you upgrade your iPod, the software could just rebuild the necessary keys.

It's not watertight but, as with ITMS, good enough.


Right, I suppose that works.

Still I don't like it.

(Not that it applies to me, I live in Canada, where they just got rid of this silly tax ... I mean levy)

MontyZ
May 16, 2005, 03:08 PM
I don't live in the UK, but, this sucks, and I hope someone doesn't try this crap here in the US.

Maxiseller
May 17, 2005, 05:50 PM
Do people seriously think that people are going to put up with this rubbish for too much longer?

We are taxed to death. Cars, Petrol (Nearly £1 a litre!!) purchases, income tax, local council tax, National Insurance...I could go on forever!!

To anyone thinking of moving to the UK:

Don't!!

Reasons:

Chavs, typically english weather (sucks - I'm sunburned and yet I have the flu) A useless government who thinks it's a good idea to allow people who beat up old ladies to be put in prison for 9 months. Pah!!

CaptainHaddock
May 18, 2005, 10:55 PM
Do people seriously think that people are going to put up with this rubbish for too much longer?

We are taxed to death. Cars, Petrol (Nearly £1 a litre!!) purchases, income tax, local council tax, National Insurance...I could go on forever!!


It seems like the British gave up fighting for basic economic freedoms long ago. What ever happened to the triumphant, proud independence of the Englishman (or woman)? The great island nation is now a hovel of tax collectors, politicians, and bureaucrats.

Canada's going the same route, and I'm bailing out before it gets much worse.

Applespider
May 19, 2005, 03:48 AM
Do people seriously think that people are going to put up with this rubbish for too much longer?


Apparently so since the country just voted the incumbent government another term in office... :o

Seriously, if they add another £100 to the price of an iPod in tax, I suspect there will be even more people heading to NY to buy them. At certain points of year that would make your flight virtually free..

840quadra
May 19, 2005, 04:26 AM
This is why I am starting to listen to, and buy more to underground, Independent music.

The fact that the music industry is now lobbying large government to implement taxes and regulations like this just sucks. I understand and respect intellectual proerty, and I am MORE then happy to pay for my music. I absolutely DO NOT want my Government taxing me for how I want to “enjoy” music purchase.