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MacRumors
Nov 22, 2011, 09:27 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/22/apple-on-track-for-nfc-enabled-iphone-in-2012/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/11/in2pay_iphone_2.jpg


Following conflicting rumors about whether the iPhone 4S would include near field communication (NFC) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication) technology (rumors that were eventually decided in the negative), Digitimes reports (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20111121PD211.html) that Apple is indeed one of the vendors still expected to introduce NFC-enabled operating system software (and thus hardware) in 2012. Apple's inclusion of NFC in next year's iPhone would appear to come as part of a tipping point for the technology, with the technology's prevalence in the smartphone industry set to increase from about 10% to over 50% in the span of two to three years.As Android, Symbian, BlackBerry and Bada have supported NFC (near field communication) functions and Microsoft and Apple plan to make Windows Phone and iOS support NFC in 2012, the proportion of NFC-enabled smartphones will quickly increase from less than 10% currently to over 50% in two to three years, according to Taiwan-based smartphone makers.NFC standardization issues have been one problem slowing adoption of the technology, but with 45 wireless carriers including AT&T and Verizon now signed on to a SIM-based standard, those issues may be reaching a resolution.

Back-and-forth rumors about whether NFC would appear in the 2011 version of the iPhone led to considerable uncertainty about where Apple stood on the technology, with The New York Times noting in March that NFC would be a part of a "coming iteration" (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/21/more-claims-of-nfc-capabilities-in-coming-iteration-of-iphone/) of the iPhone without specifying a product generation. By mid-May, Bernstein analysts correctly predicted (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/16/analyst-claims-no-nfc-in-next-generation-iphone/) not only that NFC would not be included in Apple's forthcoming iPhone hardware but that the new iPhone would be an iPhone 4S and not a radically redesigned iPhone 5.

Article Link: Apple On Track for NFC-Enabled iPhone in 2012? (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/22/apple-on-track-for-nfc-enabled-iphone-in-2012/)



adildacoolset
Nov 22, 2011, 09:29 AM
Allow it also in the iPad 3 and iPod touch! Please!

3bs
Nov 22, 2011, 09:31 AM
What can NFC be used for?

Wickedgardengtp
Nov 22, 2011, 09:35 AM
I hope I can start using this soon!

bier-meister
Nov 22, 2011, 09:35 AM
What can NFC be used for?

You can buy a coffee by just swiping your phone, book a hotel and have the room key sent to your phone so no need to check in, buy something at a vending machine, buy tickets for a game/gig/theater on your phone and just swipe to enter venue, etc

3bs
Nov 22, 2011, 09:37 AM
You can buy a coffee by just swiping your phone, book a hotel and have the room key sent to your phone so no need to check in, buy something at a vending machine, buy tickets for a game/gig/theater on your phone and just swipe to enter venue, etc

A better question is, where can you use this? I haven't heard of NFC being used in Ireland. No point in having an iPhone with NFC capabilities if you can't use them

radge
Nov 22, 2011, 09:37 AM
The keynote could be "We have a wide-screen iPod with a touch display, a phone, a credit card, a boarding pass, a hotel room key, a ticket to a concert...etc all in one"

NFC would be awesome.

*LTD*
Nov 22, 2011, 09:39 AM
The coolest way to separate you from your money!

soco
Nov 22, 2011, 09:40 AM
A better question is, where can you use this? I haven't heard of NFC being used in Ireland. No point in having an iPhone with NFC capabilities if you can't use them
Yeah so let's just not make this at all if they can't use it in Ireland... :rolleyes:

BassPlayer
Nov 22, 2011, 09:41 AM
Next: iPad 3, paid with my card
Then: iPhone 5, paid with my card
Then: iPad 4, paid with my iPhone 5

Fazzy
Nov 22, 2011, 09:41 AM
An alternative to nfc would be to use bluetooth 4.0
you could technically use it for the same the same things as nfc, but it would also be compatible with the iPhone 4s and the current Macs

cire
Nov 22, 2011, 09:41 AM
Am I wrong, but isn't NFC widely used in Japan? If so, where else has it reached tipping point and what is their experience with it?

3bs
Nov 22, 2011, 09:41 AM
Yeah so let's just not make this at all if they can't use it in Ireland... :rolleyes:

That's not what I meant :p
I just hope by the time the next iPhone comes out and if it does have NFC, that I can actually use it and I'm sure a lot of other people would like that too.

scott523
Nov 22, 2011, 09:44 AM
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What can NFC be used for?

You can buy a coffee by just swiping your phone, book a hotel and have the room key sent to your phone so no need to check in, buy something at a vending machine, buy tickets for a game/gig/theater on your phone and just swipe to enter venue, etc

Until I see at least half of those you listed implemented anytime soon, I don't see NFC coming to the iPhone in 2012 nor am I looking forward to it. I'm picking up the new iPhone 4S today so I'll wait for my contract to be over.

bier-meister
Nov 22, 2011, 09:44 AM
A better question is, where can you use this? I haven't heard of NFC being used in Ireland. No point in having an iPhone with NFC capabilities if you can't use them

A few of the restaurants here accept it, a few in the UK also accept, some hotels in Sweden are providing keycards to mobile. It's still a young technology, more places will start adopting this technology once there are more devices on the market. Very few people have NFC devices and probably few of these have it set up for mobile payments. Visa (v.me) are introducing mobile payment early next year, so this along with an iDevice and WinMo devices will push the technology into the mainstream.

nagromme
Nov 22, 2011, 09:48 AM
Sounds better than Starbuck’s bizarre and awkward “show a bar code on your phone screen” solution!

whitesand
Nov 22, 2011, 09:48 AM
Don't want such a thing and I really don't see any extra convenience anyway...Looks like it would be too easy to steal as well...

Mr. Retrofire
Nov 22, 2011, 09:51 AM
A better question is, where can you use this? I haven't heard of NFC being used in Ireland. No point in having an iPhone with NFC capabilities if you can't use them

You should read the article!

...Apple's inclusion of NFC in next year's iPhone would appear to come as part of a tipping point for the technology, with the technology's prevalence in the smartphone industry set to increase from about 10% to over 50% in the span of two to three years. NFC standardization issues have been one problem slowing adoption of the technology, but with 45 wireless carriers including AT&T and Verizon now signed on to a SIM-based standard, those issues may be reaching a resolution.

dlowings
Nov 22, 2011, 10:02 AM
Total bummer if they are going to put it in the tier drop designed phone... I really love the form factor of the current design, and was hopping they would put it in the 4s but no luck :(

AmpSkillz
Nov 22, 2011, 10:03 AM
A better question is, where can you use this? I haven't heard of NFC being used in Ireland.
In the U.S. many places like McDonalds & Starbucks already have the capability built into the credit card console that most customers swipe their cards or enter pin numbers on. (IMAGE (http://media.bestofmicro.com/iPhone-NFC,G-K-285716-3.jpg))
No point in having an iPhone with NFC capabilities if you can't use them
So you are saying there is no point in having a phone if you cant use just one of its features?

I'm guessing this wont be the only new feature. It will likely have a new design, a spec bump, still make/recieve calls, send/recieve text messages and browse the web or check email, so there may still be some point in having the phone.

HellDiverUK
Nov 22, 2011, 10:05 AM
A better question is, where can you use this? I haven't heard of NFC being used in Ireland. No point in having an iPhone with NFC capabilities if you can't use them

People in non-3rd world, non-bankrupt countries can use NFC in most places. :p

Jefe
Nov 22, 2011, 10:07 AM
What can NFC be used for?

Stealing your identity?

needa
Nov 22, 2011, 10:08 AM
i will say it again...

people can already walk by you and steal your cc info from your cc if it has one of those rfid chips built in (paypass types). storing that kind of info in your phone can only cause more problems.

the best way to pay for your goods is to reach in your wallet and swipe a standard debit/credit card.

3bs
Nov 22, 2011, 10:10 AM
i will say it again...

people can already walk by you and steal your cc info from your cc if it has one of those rfid chips built in (paypass types). storing that kind of info in your phone can only cause more problems.

the best way to pay for your goods is to reach in your wallet and swipe a standard debit/credit card.

Won't they take that into account and put measures in place to prevent it?

AmpSkillz
Nov 22, 2011, 10:12 AM
You can buy a coffee by just swiping your phone, book a hotel and have the room key sent to your phone so no need to check in, buy something at a vending machine, buy tickets for a game/gig/theater on your phone and just swipe to enter venue, etc

Until I see at least half of those you listed implemented anytime soon, I don't see NFC coming to the iPhone in 2012 nor am I looking forward to it. I'm picking up the new iPhone 4S today so I'll wait for my contract to be over.

The iPhone (and other phones) adding NFC capability is what will spark implementation of those features, not the other way around

it's not like you were seeing those QR bar codes web links for years before most smartphones had apps that could scan them.

hamlin
Nov 22, 2011, 10:12 AM
I don't think I have seen this yet in Canada. I know they use it in Japan though.

TallGuy1970
Nov 22, 2011, 10:14 AM
i will say it again...

people can already walk by you and steal your cc info from your cc if it has one of those rfid chips built in (paypass types). storing that kind of info in your phone can only cause more problems.

the best way to pay for your goods is to reach in your wallet and swipe a standard debit/credit card.

+1

If this technology is part of the new OS on my phone, there better be a way to turn it off or the first time I get hacked, I am suing the phone manufacturer!

I don't want this technology and never intend to use. Don't try to force it on me!

Oletros
Nov 22, 2011, 10:17 AM
the best way to pay for your goods is to reach in your wallet and swipe a standard debit/credit card.

And replicate the card in the same process.

So, why use credit cards?

----------

+1

If this technology is part of the new OS on my phone, there better be a way to turn it off or the first time I get hacked, I am suing the phone manufacturer!

I don't want this technology and never intend to use. Don't try to force it on me!

Ah, because WiFi and BT can't be turned off because there are part of iOS, no?

RobertMartens
Nov 22, 2011, 10:17 AM
What can NFC be used for?

You can use it to buy an iPod Touch for your kid. Then he can use it to buy a MacBook Pro for you. Score!!!

Mal
Nov 22, 2011, 10:20 AM
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Until I see at least half of those you listed implemented anytime soon, I don't see NFC coming to the iPhone in 2012 nor am I looking forward to it. I'm picking up the new iPhone 4S today so I'll wait for my contract to be over.

It's far more likely to be implemented if the devices to use it are available. If Apple believes in this technology (no idea if they do or not), then they need to implement it to spur adoption of the end-use applications for it. Right now anyone in the US who installs something capable of receiving it doesn't have a particularly large market (there are a few specific applications that have begun to gain adoption, but still fairly small overall), but if everyone with an iPhone could use it, then it's probably worth it to them to add the equipment.

jW

RobertMartens
Nov 22, 2011, 10:20 AM
I don't think I have seen this yet in Canada. I know they use it in Japan though.

He is right. They even have Transformers in Japan. And here is an important note, the Transformers are not and never have been made by GM. I think they are made by Panasonic, formerly Matsushita Electronics

Inspiratron
Nov 22, 2011, 10:25 AM
I don't think I have seen this yet in Canada. I know they use it in Japan though.

Uhm... we've had MasterCard PayPass (and, more recently, Visa payWave) in Canada for years. From the Capital One Canadian website:

"Anywhere you see the MasterCard PayPass symbol, you can Tap & Go. This includes fast food restaurants, grocery stores, movie theatres, gas stations, and there’s more on the way."

I've seen them in every McDonald's, Tim Hortons, and Loblaws-group supermarket I've been into recently.

mkrishnan
Nov 22, 2011, 10:30 AM
I don't think I have seen this yet in Canada. I know they use it in Japan though.

I haven't seen Square or other systems (excepting what Apple does in their stores) in use personally, either. I wonder if there will be a "clear" winner between this, the RFID credit cards (which, here, are pretty much only usable at gas stations and a very few other limited places), and Square/Erply's competitor wallet system (http://www.nfcrumors.com/08-23-2011/erply-ensures-square-gets-an-nfc-competitor-that-works-with-iphone-and-ipads/), which is already available in iOS.....

tirk
Nov 22, 2011, 10:31 AM
People in non-3rd world, non-bankrupt countries can use NFC in most places. :p

So that's Swtzerland, Lichtenstein and? :D

Don't say Germany, because cash is still king there!

aricher
Nov 22, 2011, 10:36 AM
eCommerce is going to be VERY hot in the US is 2012 with all the major players (Google, PayPal, Banks, Apple, etc.) all testing the waters. My guess is that Google will lock down the Google Wallet to only the Nexus for the next year while they work out all of the bugs. Apple "may" license it's new in and out of store payment systems to 3rd parties. PayPal has it's own super app in the works (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7q1jx8mYi8) rolling in all of the companies it's bought over the past few years (Where?, Zong, etc) It's going to be a crazy ride with literally hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue in the US alone at stake.

ipedro
Nov 22, 2011, 10:38 AM
i will say it again...

people can already walk by you and steal your cc info from your cc if it has one of those rfid chips built in (paypass types). storing that kind of info in your phone can only cause more problems.

the best way to pay for your goods is to reach in your wallet and swipe a standard debit/credit card.

A smartphone with embedded NFC chip is far safer than a dumb card that just sits there waiting to broadcast your info. NFC in an iPhone would allow you to confirm on the screen if you want to make a payment and even require you to open an app to turn the NFC chip on.

Your nightmare scenario of people walking by you and swiping your smartphone-wallet is a product of ignorance of the technology. Join the 21st century.

CQd44
Nov 22, 2011, 10:43 AM
Sigh. I'm a cashier at hobby lobby and I can tell you that we'll probably NEVER implement NFC scanners.

(we don't even have bar code scanners)

Personally I want to stamp out the nfc chip on my debit card. So useless to me.

eNcrypTioN
Nov 22, 2011, 10:48 AM
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The keynote could be "We have a wide-screen iPod with a touch display, a phone, a credit card, a boarding pass, a hotel room key, a ticket to a concert...etc all in one"

NFC would be awesome.

This is exactly what I want it for. It would be great to just have my phone do everything for me so that I don't have to carry a million things in my pocket. Plus, no more losing the tickets or room key. The only drawback i see thus far is if your battery dies...

marksman
Nov 22, 2011, 10:50 AM
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iPhone implementation for this will create wide spread adoption and usage in the US. Nobody else using the tech at this point will have a big enough impact to create a viable NFC ecosystem in the us

bier-meister
Nov 22, 2011, 10:53 AM
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This is exactly what I want it for. It would be great to just have my phone do everything for me so that I don't have to carry a million things in my pocket. Plus, no more losing the tickets or room key. The only drawback i see thus far is if your battery dies...

No different that today with train and plan QR tickets. I can't remember the last time I've had to print one. I've only once had the situation of arriving at the airport and my battery was near dead. Wasn't sure if it would have survived until boarding time, so I went to a checkin desk and the lady printed me out a boarding pass.

SirChadwick
Nov 22, 2011, 11:17 AM
Banks and Visa/MC should be nervous, very nervous. It will be a whole new path for consumers pay for goods and services. Thus the articles mention of a 50% growth in a few years.

diamond.g
Nov 22, 2011, 11:22 AM
Banks and Visa/MC should be nervous, very nervous. It will be a whole new path for consumers pay for goods and services. Thus the articles mention of a 50% growth in a few years.

Has it been confirmed that NFC will use ACH? Otherwise all NFC will end up being is a replacement for swiping the debit/credit card, thus Banks and Visa/MC will still get theirs...

topmounter
Nov 22, 2011, 11:45 AM
I just can't get excited about MFC.

Mal
Nov 22, 2011, 11:59 AM
I just can't get excited about MFC.

What about NFC? ;) Just kidding.

I'm having a hard time getting excited too, but I suspect when it comes, they'll present the advantages in a way that I'll be hard-pressed not to like it.

jW

SockRolid
Nov 22, 2011, 12:07 PM
Seems like the Easy Pay feature of the Apple Store app would be a logical place to add an NFC feature. Just sayin'.

akugyaku
Nov 22, 2011, 12:12 PM
A smartphone with embedded NFC chip is far safer than a dumb card that just sits there waiting to broadcast your info. NFC in an iPhone would allow you to confirm on the screen if you want to make a payment and even require you to open an app to turn the NFC chip on.

Your nightmare scenario of people walking by you and swiping your smartphone-wallet is a product of ignorance of the technology. Join the 21st century.

Because hackers and identity thieves never adapt faster than OEMs and software. Oh wait, I mean they ALWAYS adapt faster than the OEMs and software.

Atomical
Nov 22, 2011, 12:29 PM
Swipe your iPhone actually sounds scary and unhealthy for the device;-)

Mal
Nov 22, 2011, 12:32 PM
Because hackers and identity thieves never adapt faster than OEMs and software. Oh wait, I mean they ALWAYS adapt faster than the OEMs and software.

In this case, though, it's a valid point. If the chip is off until triggered, then it's safer. No question.

jW

Veinticinco
Nov 22, 2011, 12:46 PM
A better question is, where can you use this? I haven't heard of NFC being used in Ireland. No point in having an iPhone with NFC capabilities if you can't use them
Try Costa Coffee. There's a few in Dublin I'm sure, Dawson Street definitely.

----------

+1

If this technology is part of the new OS on my phone, there better be a way to turn it off or the first time I get hacked, I am suing the phone manufacturer!

I don't want this technology and never intend to use. Don't try to force it on me!

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7535/tinfoilhat1.jpg

rcappo
Nov 22, 2011, 01:41 PM
I would rather get one of those RFID chips inserted into my arm...on second thought that might be a little too far.

I would like to see RFID type of credit cards made into a thin sticker I could put in my iPhone case along with a fingerprint scanner at the cash register.

dagamer34
Nov 22, 2011, 01:50 PM
Pet peeve: considering there have now been 5 iPhones released, the "iPhone 5" is really the iPhone 4S. Please stop using the term "iPhone 5" to refer to a mythical product that everyone wanted to be released in 2011.

joneill55
Nov 22, 2011, 01:54 PM
A better question is, where can you use this? I haven't heard of NFC being used in Ireland. No point in having an iPhone with NFC capabilities if you can't use them



I'd say who cares about Ireland but...................both sides of my family are from there and I do care. Beautiful country and fantastic people. I look forward to my next visit

My hunch is more and more outlets will offer/ use NFC as they grow in popularity with smart phone adoption. I remember when the debit card was a less than 50% chance that it would be honored.

Another way to not have retail employees handling cash, less shrink, more definable record keeping for both consumer and retailers. Win-win for all.

Mal
Nov 22, 2011, 03:06 PM
I would rather get one of those RFID chips inserted into my arm...on second thought that might be a little too far.

I would like to see RFID type of credit cards made into a thin sticker I could put in my iPhone case along with a fingerprint scanner at the cash register.

The arm reader might be a little much. ;)

That said, as noted before, I think the security offered by having a configurable chip is a big asset. The type built into a card or a sticker can't be turned off. That means someone walking by can potentially read it. The type in a chip could be turned off, powered down, when not in use by the phone. That means it's invisible to any thieves unless it's actively in use, reducing your risk.

jW

StyxMaker
Nov 22, 2011, 03:23 PM
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Pet peeve: considering there have now been 5 iPhones released, the "iPhone 5" is really the iPhone 4S. Please stop using the term "iPhone 5" to refer to a mythical product that everyone wanted to be released in 2011.

Why? You think Apple is going to call it the 'iPhone 6' when it comes out? They have already demonstrated that they have no intention to keep the 'phone name' number in sync with either the iOS version number or the 'phone generation' number.

Piggie
Nov 22, 2011, 03:36 PM
Why is the rest of the world so far behind Japan with this type of stuff?

They've been able to pay with things from their phones for years and years. I recall hearing about it being up and running at least 5 years ago if not more than that on the Radio.

daveathall
Nov 22, 2011, 03:52 PM
Those that want to use it can, those that think it is a security risk don't need too. Can't see what the argument is.

MacSince1990
Nov 22, 2011, 04:46 PM
Good, this is an important move that Apple needs to make to stay competitive.

Of course, I will never use this technology. No way I'm sending out wireless data IN PUBLIC with all my financial/banking/credit information just out in the open for anyone to grab.

Sure, they'd have to be close (NF), and obviously the data would be (heavily I hope!?) encrypted... but any lock can be broken, and this is just like handing out locks for potential locksmiths to have at and crack. Unless they use some sort of 1024-bit encryption, this is soooo not appealing to me :/

Anyone else agree?

Piggie
Nov 22, 2011, 04:51 PM
Why don't they use the system where it's like PayPal, so you separately and securely load money from your bank account onto the phone.

Then when you buy things using the phone, the money only comes from this floating wallet. So the most you can ever have stolen is the amount that you loaded into your phone's account/wallet.

AppleScruff1
Nov 22, 2011, 05:02 PM
You can buy a coffee by just swiping your phone, book a hotel and have the room key sent to your phone so no need to check in, buy something at a vending machine, buy tickets for a game/gig/theater on your phone and just swipe to enter venue, etc

But how do you fit your phone in the door knob to unlock it? :confused:








:D:D

andy88
Nov 23, 2011, 01:19 AM
Look at http://www.telcred.com/ to see how you unlock your door with an NFC-enabled smartphone.

Devon61
Nov 23, 2011, 01:22 PM
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iPhone implementation for this will create wide spread adoption and usage in the US. Nobody else using the tech at this point will have a big enough impact to create a viable NFC ecosystem in the us

In both developed (U.S.) and developing (China) economies Apple is not the leading ecosystem.

"Nokia Oyj lead the China smartphone market in the third quarter with 28 percent market share, while HTC Corp head the pack in the U.S. market with a 24 percent share ahead of Apple's 20.6 percent share, according to the [Strategy Analytics] research."

and from another report on the wire:

"While the decade-old technology, called near-field communications (NFC), is well-established in Japan and South Korea, its use has been stymied in Europe and North America by the competing interests of banks, merchants, device makers and wireless carriers.

This year, however, the logjam started to break after Google included NFC support in its Android operating system, the world's most popular smartphone software, and Nokia said all its phones will be NFC-enabled by the end of 2011.

RIM moved to stake its claim in September, saying NFC chips embedded in several of its newest phones would allow users to gain access to office buildings."

thewitt
Nov 23, 2011, 09:18 PM
NFC is still an emerging technology, even in Japan.

Credit card processing will still be through Visa or MC. They are not losing out, vendors simply need to install a new POS device.

The way to get this widely adopted is for Visa or MC to actually offer vendor discounts to those who use NFC systems...as well as get it installed in the next iPhone.

There are competing NFC standards however, including the distance you need to be from the scanner, and these need to be worked out before you will be able to walk up to your favorite fast food window and pay with your phone.