Apple Updates Pages and Keynote

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has posted updates to Pages and Keynote from their iWork suite:

Pages 1.0.2 addresses issues with page navigation and organization.

Keynote 2.0.2 corrects a security issue. For detailed information on this Update, please visit this website: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n61798

Apple introduced iWork '05 (http://www.apple.com/iwork/) earlier this year at MacWorld San Francisco (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/01/20050111145037.shtml).

[Peel]

Great! Can't wait to get home from work and get the update. Anyone know if this is showing up in Software Update yet?

[vouder17]

Yeah it is in Software update...havent really seen any changes..but they are big downloads :eek:

[SoGood]

Really haven't seen anything dramatic after the updates. Yet again, I am not a big user of Keynote and Pages.

[Apple]

Has any1 been able to dwnload this? It is not on the support downloads on Apple's site and that means that software update wont pick it up.

[Xtremehkr]

There is another thread somewhere else with some details about changes. I haven't noticed anything yet, except that they open a lot faster than before the update. The updates were kinda big for the reasons given too. Hmmm.

[Apple]

Never Mind i figured out that the reason it was not working was because software update was not finding the two apps. I realized that I drug them out of the iWork folder in /Applications when i first installed iWork.

[Object-X]

How about updating iWork with a spreadsheet called Cells?

[d.perel]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Keynote 2.0.2 corrects a security issue.


I never quite guessed that Keynote, of all programs, would ever need a security update...

[Bear]

How about updating iWork with a spreadsheet called Cells?Or maybe an app called Sheets. I suspect we'll most likely see this at the next MacWorld SF.

[Bear]

There is another thread somewhere else with some details about changes. I haven't noticed anything yet, except that they open a lot faster than before the update. The updates were kinda big for the reasons given too. Hmmm.Remember these updates also included the updates included in Pages 1.01 and Keynote 2.01 and that all the changes do add up.

[Lord Kythe]

Or maybe an app called Sheets. I suspect we'll most likely see this at the next MacWorld SF.

Yeah... I think I remember a rumor on this site that was leaning towards "Cells". We need a decent substitute for MS Office!

Is there anyone here who completely switched to Pages? I'm still using Word for my old documents and I try to create all my new ones in Pages.

[GodBless]

Or maybe an app called Sheets.
Yeah, a name like "Cells" reminds me of a prison.

I suspect we'll most likely see this at the next MacWorld SF.
I hope so. I hope it develops in to a whole suite like AppleWorks but with more of an OS X touch. I will be happy with Pages only if it becomes a better Application than Word though. How about adding a core image based art program to the suite? That would be cool. But I think Apple will first add an Excel clone to the suite.

[DakotaGuy]

Does anyone even use these products on a day to day basis? I don't see the point of buying iWork after I bought Office 2004.

[GodBless]

Does anyone even use these products on a day to day basis? I don't see the point of buying iWork after I bought Office 2004.
PowerPoint doesn't compare to Keynote, but then again Pages doesn't compare to Word. Of course there is a use for iWork if you want Keynote like me. I am happy with both of the suites. (I currently am using Office X.)

[yoda13]

I bought it, but I already had Office 2004, so I haven't used it much, and probably should have thought it through before making an impulse purchase, but all in all, I am still glad I bought it. But it is just a toy for me.

[vollspacken]

I'm still on Keynote 1.1.1 and I kick everyone's Powerpoint ***, everytime I have to give a presentation... the rendering is just incredible :)

vSpacken

[DakotaGuy]

I don't make many presentations and when I do I have always used PowerPoint. Keynote might be better, but why learn a new program or pay for it when you only use it a couple times a year. I think Apple will eventually get a good set of programs to replace AppleWorks, but I am not sure if they even want to go against Office. It seems MS Office for Mac is still a good selling point. When I talk to my friends about changing that is the NUMBER 1 question they ask... Will it run Office???

[Bear]

Does anyone even use these products on a day to day basis? I don't see the point of buying iWork after I bought Office 2004.I don't do that many presentations, so I don't use Keynote that often. I do however use Pages daily.

[Porchland]

How about updating iWork with a spreadsheet called Cells?

And a Quicken-like app called Ledger. (Quicken for Mac is dreadful, but it works with bankofamerica.com, so it's what I use.)

[MmmPancakes]

I didn't think anyone even used Pages...

[iGuy]

Perhaps someone can educate me, but I think I still prefer PowerPoint because of its text-based outline tool. Let me explain.

Unless you're making sales presentations, the resolution and transition effects (affects?, I allways get those confused, blonde roots) are not as important as the content. In fact, a presentation that looks too slick only undermines the credibility of its content, at least in the corporate world.

With this in mind, an outline feature that is visually-based is not as useful as a text-based one. That is because I use the outline feature to organize my thoughts and create the basis of the presentation. I can't read the text on small iconic representations of screens.

It is a great tool once the underlying message is organized, but it focuses too much on the graphic and not on the message for me. Just my opinion, don't beat me up for being honest. As I state in my title, I'm happy to be educated and learn how to use a text-based outline tool within Keynote.

There is one thing I can do in Keynote that I can't in PowerPoint and that is create a series of slides to be used on my PSP. Keynote allows you to customize the output resolution. PowerPoint does as well, but only with preset aspect ratios, non of which are PSP suitable.

Just my two cents.

~iGuy

[Bear]

I didn't think anyone even used Pages...Hey it does what I want. Including things I couldn't do in AppleWorks.

I suspect Pages 2.x will have a nice set of additional features.

[joeboy_45101]

Is there anyone here who completely switched to Pages? I'm still using Word for my old documents and I try to create all my new ones in Pages.

I've switched to Pages from Word. I like it. It did take a little bit of time to get used to but the included manual was a big help.

I think that one of the features in the upcoming versions of Pages should be a webpage template. You could just drag and drop text and images and then publish it through .Mac. Right now you can only export into a HTML format, not bad but I would love for there to be actual templates and that .Mac could do all of the work of converting the Pages document to a webpage.

[plasticparadox]

Argh, why do the Pages and Keynote apps NEED to be in the 'iWork' subfolder in order to be updated? I hate having subfolders in my Applications folder. So inefficient.

Pages has it's uses. I don't really see it as a general use word processor. I have it in my dock alongside Word, which I see as general use. Pages is more of a layout app and if you need to dash off a quick impressive document using one of the templates. I just wish I could find a source to download more professional Pages templates.

Keynote is incredible. I just converted one of my PowerPoint-using friends (she already has a Mac) because I showed her how to export to .ppt. I love the transitions. But one feature it could grab from PowerPoint is the ability to have presenter notes - notes that appear on the Mac but not on the projector.

[plasticparadox]

Unless you're making sales presentations, the resolution and transition effects (affects?, I allways get those confused, blonde roots) are not as important as the content. In fact, a presentation that looks too slick only undermines the credibility of its content, at least in the corporate world.



Don't be silly. Image is at least as important, if not more important than content. People are like robots - transfixed by shiny objects, moving things, and indeed, 3D cube transitions. I know this from experience, and I'm while I can definitely see where you're coming from regarding the text-based outline, I believe that if a company uses a crap PowerPoint presentation, (think blue/black gradient background, size 18 Arial white font, and clip-art downloaded from MS Office Online) it's just going to go in one ear and out the others. Because everyone uses those crappy presentations. And they all look the same.

Keynote has gotten me plenty of compliments, and that's all the endorsement I need :)

[mattriff]

Keynote is incredible. I just converted one of my PowerPoint-using friends (she already has a Mac) because I showed her how to export to .ppt. I love the transitions. But one feature it could grab from PowerPoint is the ability to have presenter notes - notes that appear on the Mac but not on the projector.

What version are you using? Because Keynote 2 absolutely does do that. I use it all the time. :)

Besides presenter notes, it will also show any/all of: previous slide, next slide, a clock, and a countdown timer, arranged to your liking.

Matt

[plasticparadox]

What version are you using? Because Keynote 2 absolutely does do that. I use it all the time. :)

Besides presenter notes, it will also show any/all of: previous slide, next slide, a clock, and a countdown timer, arranged to your liking.

Matt

No way! - I didn't know that. I'm on v2.. gonna check it out! You made my day! Can't wait till my next presentation!

[jsalzer]

Yippee - worth the 3 hour download - they added a Keynote-type navigation bar with thumbnails of the pages to Pages!!!

Oh, that's going to make my next catalog so much easier to get around than this past one that I did.

Woohoo! Thank you, Apple!

[plasticparadox]

Yippee - worth the 3 hour download - they added a Keynote-type navigation bar with thumbnails of the pages to Pages!!!

Oh, that's going to make my next catalog so much easier to get around than this past one that I did.

Woohoo! Thank you, Apple!

Sweet. They aren't giving up on Pages. I'm glad that they're trying to improve it!

[kcmac]

But one feature it could grab from PowerPoint is the ability to have presenter notes - notes that appear on the Mac but not on the projector.
Maybe you should take a look. It just may do what you want.
;)

[iGuy]

Don't be silly. Image is at least as important, if not more important than content. People are like robots - transfixed by shiny objects, moving things, and indeed, 3D cube transitions. I know this from experience, and I'm while I can definitely see where you're coming from regarding the text-based outline, I believe that if a company uses a crap PowerPoint presentation, (think blue/black gradient background, size 18 Arial white font, and clip-art downloaded from MS Office Online) it's just going to go in one ear and out the others. Because everyone uses those crappy presentations. And they all look the same.

Keynote has gotten me plenty of compliments, and that's all the endorsement I need :)

I'm very happy for you.

But in my case, the medium is NOT the message.

~iGuy

[Tulse]

We regularly use Pages at our office for a newsletter. It's really great to be able to set up a nicely designed template that novices can use. Instead of having to do all the layout and final production myself, the authors now enter all their text in the template, and all I need to do is final tweaking.

Pages has serious performance problems with flowing text around objects, but other than that, it is pretty darned neat, and really can be a meaningful production tool.

[magicbbird]

Pages vs. Word:
The only thing preventing me from working with Pages full time is its numbering or listing feature. MS Word's numbering feature is very smart. It guesses right most of the time whenever I want to insert a line without number ('enter' twice), or start a new sequence or not...etc.

Pages -- I need to go to inspector or something to reset it everytime I change something. Very time consuming... :(

[NeoMayhem]

Does anyone even use these products on a day to day basis? I don't see the point of buying iWork after I bought Office 2004.

I use Pages everyday, and keynote at least once a week. Keynote is so much better then powerpoint I usually start to laugh when I see all the lame effects and poor quality themes people usually use with powerpoint. Pages is pretty good, better then Word for my uses.

[lotrfan]

Perhaps someone can educate me, but I think I still prefer PowerPoint because of its text-based outline tool. Let me explain.
...
... an outline feature that is visually-based is not as useful as a text-based one. That is because I use the outline feature to organize my thoughts and create the basis of the presentation. I can't read the text on small iconic representations of screens.

~iGuy

Keynote has had a text-based outline feature from version 1. To get to it just go to the "View" dropdown in the toolbar and switch from "Navigator" to "Outline."

Give it a try ... this will let you organize and prepare your presentations, and still have the best looking presentations around.

[~Shard~]

Sweet. They aren't giving up on Pages. I'm glad that they're trying to improve it!

I'm sure it's only the beginning for Pages and iWork in general - I'd expect iWork '06 to possibly expand and include a spreadsheet-type of app as well. Lots of potential if Apple can execute it properly. :cool:

[Rod Rod]

Argh, why do the Pages and Keynote apps NEED to be in the 'iWork' subfolder in order to be updated? I hate having subfolders in my Applications folder. So inefficient.
When life hands you lemons, make aliases and place them at the top level of your Applications folder.

[BWhaler]

Yippee - worth the 3 hour download - they added a Keynote-type navigation bar with thumbnails of the pages to Pages!!!

Oh, that's going to make my next catalog so much easier to get around than this past one that I did.

Woohoo! Thank you, Apple!

Awesome.

Pages is on its way to being usable. Nothing would make me happier than to be able to dump word once and for all if the next revision of Pages is solid.

[Trowaman]

Does anyone even use these products on a day to day basis? I don't see the point of buying iWork after I bought Office 2004.

I don't have office 2004 (I have the version before it) but for starters on Powerpoint and keynote I had never used either before I had Keynote 2 on my computer. I gave each a 5 minute test to try and figure them out, in 5 minutes on Keynote i had multiple slides with transitions, animated text, pictures, and music while on Powerpoint I still had not figured out how to create a new slide.

As for Word vs. Pages, I'm using Pages, then Appleworks, then Word, then text Edit. (This is my preferred order). My suggestion to the average person is if there is color anywhere on their document to use pages. The templates and drawing format is just too good for creating flyers or anything with a picture. On a note, I still like Appleworks toolbar at the top, thus is why I prefer it to Word (and in some ways Pages, that bar is jsut too easy for me).

[Zaty]

They sill haven't fixed a bug with the TOC. The TOC only displays page numbers in Arabic numerals even if you chose to number your pages using Roman numerals.

[ryanw]

Yeah... I think I remember a rumor on this site that was leaning towards "Cells". We need a decent substitute for MS Office!

Is there anyone here who completely switched to Pages? I'm still using Word for my old documents and I try to create all my new ones in Pages.

I was using pages for a while. Great app but the Pages file format sux. It's not a file, it's a directory with a bunch of stuff in it. Sure, that's probably cool for compatibilty or 'open sourceness' or something like that, but it's lame when you want to transfer it or email it to someone else. You have to zip it up first to send it, then unzip it to see it and modify it, then zip it up again to send it back.

Lame...

[Windowlicker]

Perhaps someone can educate me, but I think I still prefer PowerPoint because of its text-based outline tool. Let me explain....

The reason Keynote kicks PowerPoint's ass is it's much simpler to use. Also, if you happen to like eyecandy it's good of course.

[Jason_Bryan]

I don't have to create a zip file to send pages by e-mail, the package is self contained. as far as I can tell most users do not know, or care, that the icon for their pages document is actually a file or not.

[wwooden]

I still use word to write all my lab reports because we work in groups and I don't want there to be any problems when converting. I try and use pages for anything that I will be writing myself. I enjoy using it and would like to use it more. I don't want to completely leave microsoft office, it is a good program in a lot of ways.

[andiwm2003]

Don't be silly. Image is at least as important, if not more important than content. People are like robots - transfixed by shiny objects, moving things, and indeed, 3D cube transitions. I know this from experience, and I'm while I can definitely see where you're coming from regarding the text-based outline, I believe that if a company uses a crap PowerPoint presentation, (think blue/black gradient background, size 18 Arial white font, and clip-art downloaded from MS Office Online) it's just going to go in one ear and out the others. Because everyone uses those crappy presentations. And they all look the same.

Keynote has gotten me plenty of compliments, and that's all the endorsement I need :)


he is not silly. no reason to offend people. when i give presentations in my company i do it most of the time in keynote. but i don't use cube transitions or other eyecandy because some if not most people stop listening. they believe if you need eyecandy then the content isn't good enough the keep their attention anyway. as for slide background that is defined by the company templates anyway. i use keynot because of the better rendering and the easier, more robust handling of images.
your point maybe true for presentations of your company to the outside where you want to bring an overview across. but when you're supposed to give an update on a project status to an expert audience then eyecandy just undermines credibility.

andi

[Bear]

They sill haven't fixed a bug with the TOC. The TOC only displays page numbers in Arabic numerals even if you chose to number your pages using Roman numerals.Have you provided information on this issue as
feedback (http://www.apple.com/feedback/pages.html) to Apple?

[Platform]

Good.....I hope apple really gte something good with iWork 06....Core-Image in Keynote and "Cells" and maby another app...as well as ofcourse pages imporovment :rolleyes: :D :D

[Frisco]

Man the business world would be a lot better place if they used Macs and iWork. Thanks Microsoft!

Keynote is so nice--I plan to get advanced at using it. I love the axis feature. I am sure Microsoft will be copying that next :(

[JGowan]

Does anyone even use these products on a day to day basis? I don't see the point of buying iWork after I bought Office 2004.Firstly, Keynote is totally badass and beats the pants off of Powerpoint. Secondly, Pages opens in about 2 seconds versus the two minutes+ I regularly clock with Word. I get ".doc" files all the time and opening them up in Pages is the only way to go. You just keep using that M$ crap.

[Dark Horse]

Update doesn't seem to have done a huge amount. I think what Pages is good for over and above Word is designing documents where the layout and design is important. Word is infuriating with it's tendency to put a picture half a centimetre above or below where you want it to be.

What Pages needs tho, to continue in this vein of dominance, is native support for creating booklets (of the form where you fold A4 sheets in half to get A5 booklet). With 3rd party CocoaBooklet this is perfectly easy, but would be nicer if Pages supported it itself.

[Blurg]

I love the new thumbnail navigation panel in Pages, it's exactly what I was waiting for. This panel is one reason why I like Keynote so much.

[BLW]

My wife is about starting to work on a presentation and I thought to help her do it in Keynote (instead of a PC running powerpoint) but one thing I don't know is if the Keynote presentation can be run on a PC. No?

[Angrist]

My wife is about starting to work on a presentation and I thought to help her do it in Keynote (instead of a PC running powerpoint) but one thing I don't know is if the Keynote presentation can be run on a PC. No?

I havn't personally tried it yet .... but Keynote will export a Powerpoint file that should be playable on a PC. But I'd recommend testing it out beforehand ... sometimes funny things happen when converting file formats.

[Frisco]

My wife is about starting to work on a presentation and I thought to help her do it in Keynote (instead of a PC running powerpoint) but one thing I don't know is if the Keynote presentation can be run on a PC. No?

In Keynote you can export your presentation to PowerPoint. After you export it--open it up in PowerPoint to make sure things are the same and make adjustments if necessary.

If you want to test this do this:
In Keynote go to Help>iWork Tutorial
then
File>Export>PowerPoint

[Yvan256]

My wife is about starting to work on a presentation and I thought to help her do it in Keynote (instead of a PC running powerpoint) but one thing I don't know is if the Keynote presentation can be run on a PC. No?

You can export in a lot of formats. There is a PowerPoint export option, but I don't know how compatible it really is. There's also Flash, PDF and Images export options.

But my best bet would be Quicktime. You won't lose any effects, text/image anti-aliasing, etc. And the playback will even wait for a keyboard/mouse/etc button, even on Quicktime.

[ChrisFromCanada]

lol this update adds another help menu in pages!

But the Thumbnail view is exactly what Pages needed. Awesome Apple!

[fabsgwu]

lol this update adds another help menu in pages!

But the Thumbnail view is exactly what Pages needed. Awesome Apple!

I've seen other people report duplicate menu items in Tiger for the finder and other programs... It may be an OS bug.

I've also encountered some problems with my Macally trackball; some of the modifier keys for the extra buttons don't work consistently in the finder. Could be the driver tho...

[IJ Reilly]

Everyday Pages user here. In my office it replaced AppleWorks almost immediately. Pages main strength is in the way it handles styles (almost as good as the late, great WriteNow, if anybody remember that one).

The Word file translator is pretty good, but not perfect (it can't be perfect when Microsoft's file formats are proprietary). It doesn't import "character shading" from Word. Whatever that is.

I'm an occasional presenter who wouldn't touch PowerPoint with a bargepole. People notice Keynote presentations. They look so much nicer all around than PowerPoint.

[Montserrat]

he is not silly. no reason to offend people. when i give presentations in my company i do it most of the time in keynote. but i don't use cube transitions or other eyecandy because some if not most people stop listening. they believe if you need eyecandy then the content isn't good enough the keep their attention anyway. as for slide background that is defined by the company templates anyway. i use keynot because of the better rendering and the easier, more robust handling of images.
your point maybe true for presentations of your company to the outside where you want to bring an overview across. but when you're supposed to give an update on a project status to an expert audience then eyecandy just undermines credibility.

andi

Hmm,

I kinda agree with both of your points. The best presentations I've given have used some of the nice features of Keynote, but have used them subtly. Unfortunately the cube is cool, but not subtle. I've found that you can only use it once in a presentation without risking saturation. I really like fading slides into each other - keeping the title static and the same whilst changing the content. I can see a time where products like Keynote and motion converge - more and more I'm using Keynote with effects that make the presentation more like something you might see on TV news than dramatic rotating cubes. I suppose the analogy would be where people's home videos use the OTT spinning transitions while TV and movie editors use more subtle, but watchable effects.

Anyhow, I'm very happy with Keynote and I haven't done a presentation yet where someone hasn't come up to me afterwards asking how I did it. My advice to them always starts with the words "First, you need to buy a Mac..."
:D

[macmax77]

My wife is about starting to work on a presentation and I thought to help her do it in Keynote (instead of a PC running powerpoint) but one thing I don't know is if the Keynote presentation can be run on a PC. No?


you will loose lots of the effects since powerpoint can not handle them, for example, many will be awful, i hate powerpoint, i love Keynote

[itsa]

Does anyone even use these products on a day to day basis? I don't see the point of buying iWork after I bought Office 2004.

I use keynotes everyday. Pages is still too buggy.

[mchendricks]

My wife is about starting to work on a presentation and I thought to help her do it in Keynote (instead of a PC running powerpoint) but one thing I don't know is if the Keynote presentation can be run on a PC. No?

The biggest problem that I have is the file size of Keynote presentations that I convert to PowerPoint. I create all my presentations in Keynote, but I have to use PPT for class presentations. Some of the effects don't work properly, but if I keep them simple then they work okay.

[jayb2000]

... Unless you're making sales presentations, the resolution and transition effects (affects?, I allways get those confused, blonde roots)
~iGuy

effects.

Affect means to influence - The rain affected our day.
Effect means to bring about some kind of result - Rain is the effect of moisture in the clouds.

I can AFFECT the EFFECT.

Generally speaking, affect is a verb, effect is a noun, but as with most English grammar rules, there are exceptions.

[iGuy]

effects.

Affect means to influence - The rain affected our day.
Effect means to bring about some kind of result - Rain is the effect of moisture in the clouds.

I can AFFECT the EFFECT.

Generally speaking, affect is a verb, effect is a noun, but as with most English grammar rules, there are exceptions.

Thanks,

~iGuy

[IJ Reilly]

I use keynotes everyday. Pages is still too buggy.

What bugs? I haven't found any.

[Zaty]

Have you provided information on this issue as
feedback (http://www.apple.com/feedback/pages.html) to Apple?

Yes I did (in February!), and so did other users of Pages, but to no avail.

[Zaty]

What bugs? I haven't found any.

E.g the "TOC bug" as described in post no 41

[jcrowe]

Pages vs. Word:
The only thing preventing me from working with Pages full time is its numbering or listing feature. MS Word's numbering feature is very smart. It guesses right most of the time whenever I want to insert a line without number ('enter' twice), or start a new sequence or not...etc.

Pages -- I need to go to inspector or something to reset it everytime I change something. Very time consuming... :(

That's interesting. I find Word 2003 at work absurdly inadequate for technical documentation partly because its numbering is painfully atrocious. Further, application of styles happens in an illogical manner and essentially everything about Word gets in my way. I had previously used Framemaker for technical documents and it was much better suited for that style of document. OTOH, back in the late 80s/early 90s, I helped co-author a 750 page course document using Word 2 or 4 (can't remember) on a 128K 9 inch screen B&W Mac. Word has gone from fairly simple to almost useless in the meantime.


As far as Pages goes, I tried it briefly as it came with Tiger as a trial. It stuck me as a different class of WP that Word attempts to be....more like a competitor to Microsoft Works (talk about an oxymoron) or a successor to Appleworks. I'd like to play with it more once I get a chance. I am hoping that there's a way to make menu choices stick on the screen because I don't like going to a menu/submenu to choose fill and text color and style changes. In any case, I'm glad that Apple has an entry in this area. Now if we could get some of the other Appleworks functionality, like spreadsheet, drawing, simple database etc. iWork would really rock. As to price, Apple could charge $150 IMO for the whole lot of the functionality and it would still provide good value in the space it plays in...much cheaper than MS Office and probably >80% of the functionality.

:cool:

JC

[ioinc]

Pages vs. Word:
The only thing preventing me from working with Pages full time is its numbering or listing feature. MS Word's numbering feature is very smart. It guesses right most of the time whenever I want to insert a line without number ('enter' twice), or start a new sequence or not...etc.

Pages -- I need to go to inspector or something to reset it everytime I change something. Very time consuming... :(

Strange how different people have such different perspectives on things.

I think Word is horrible to use (which is explains why I dont use it often).

And in my opinion the feature that epitomizes words problems is its numbering feature.

Excel, on the other hand is an amazing program. Apple will have to come out with something very nifty if they want to get excel users to switch.

[bryanc]

I use Keynote 2 for giving presentations at scientific conferences, departmental seminars, job talks and for teaching undergraduates. It's very well suited to all of these jobs, and I'm very happy to see Apple working on improving it, and keeping it well ahead of PowerPoint.

I was at a conference last month, and all but one presentation was given on a Mac. There was also only one computer glitch that disrupted a talk... can anyone guess which one it was? :p

However, I was the only one to use Keynote... all the other Mac users were using PowerPoint. While most of the questions regarding my presentation were about the content (as they should be) I had several people ask me afterwards how I had made my presentation so much more visually appealing than the others.

I do use the eye candy... especially when teaching undergrads (keeping them awake is half the challenge), but, if used with some subtlety and taste, the 3D transitions and character effects can be very effective without distracting from the content or undermining the credibility of the presentation. You absolutely want your data to speak for itself, but there are legitimate uses for animations and effects.

Cheers

[JoeKarame]

I use Keynote 2 for giving presentations at scientific conferences, departmental seminars, job talks and for teaching undergraduates. It's very well suited to all of these jobs, and I'm very happy to see Apple working on improving it, and keeping it well ahead of PowerPoint.

I was at a conference last month, and all but one presentation was given on a Mac. There was also only one computer glitch that disrupted a talk... can anyone guess which one it was? :p

However, I was the only one to use Keynote... all the other Mac users were using PowerPoint. While most of the questions regarding my presentation were about the content (as they should be) I had several people ask me afterwards how I had made my presentation so much more visually appealing than the others.

I do use the eye candy... especially when teaching undergrads (keeping them awake is half the challenge), but, if used with some subtlety and taste, the 3D transitions and character effects can be very effective without distracting from the content or undermining the credibility of the presentation. You absolutely want your data to speak for itself, but there are legitimate uses for animations and effects.

Cheers

I agree totally. I've found Keynotes an absolute pleasure to use, and quite honestly it's been possibly the best software buy I've made for my mac. I find it incredibly intuitive to create simple stuff, but make it look eye-catching.

I do use Powerpoint to a certain extent, but it's a nightmare in comparison - and I now end up simply exporting Keynote presentations to PP in order to send the document off to various PC based unfortunates... ;)

In comparison, I find Pages slightly more limiting, and usually use Word more often - but the one thing that makes it worthwhile is the image control you have - it's very, very useful to place things anywhere you want nice and easily. I then use Word to tart things up a bit!

However, iWork is incredible value for money, and it's been a hugely pleasurable experience getting to know the thing better.

Now all I need is a 30" monitor as well as my laptop, and I can have a go at that dual-screen function!

[magicbbird]

Strange how different people have such different perspectives on things.

I think Word is horrible to use (which is explains why I dont use it often).

And in my opinion the feature that epitomizes words problems is its numbering feature.

Excel, on the other hand is an amazing program. Apple will have to come out with something very nifty if they want to get excel users to switch.

Very true. Probably I am not a power user as many of you. I only need some quick and easy keystrokes to make lots of list. Probably due to familiarity, Word has been fine with my need.

I have used some of the templates in Pages and they are excellent and easy. But most of the time I just open a blank page and type away. Making simple list with numbers become tedius whenever I want to insert a blank line, open a new paragraph, or start a new sequence. Although I think it will be easier if I set up some kind of templates myself, but most of time I have to work with free style depending on contents.

If any of you Pages users can help me make good use of Pages and get rid of Word, I am all ears. Thanks.

[diehldun]

I havn't personally tried it yet .... but Keynote will export a Powerpoint file that should be playable on a PC. But I'd recommend testing it out beforehand ... sometimes funny things happen when converting file formats.

So that means no more eye-candy? :(

I just bought iWork '05, and have been using Word and PowerPoint for a long time; I'm impressed with Keynote (it will replace PowerPoint for me), but not with Pages (I'm just too familiar/used to Word, I like Word just as it is :) )

Anyways, so if I'm exporting my Keynote presentation to a PowerPoint computer (MacOS 9/Classic @ School, Windows XP @ anywhere else), I'll loose all the visual effects, if not most?

That would NOT be good at all... :(

[swissmann]

I wonder if this iWork will eventually be a viable option out of MS Office. I hope so.

[~Shard~]

I wonder if this iWork will eventually be a viable option out of MS Office. I hope so.

I think eventually that's Apple's master plan. The suite is just in its infancy right now, so I think we'll see quite a few exciting improvements and additions to it as time goes on.

[Rod Rod]

I think eventually that's Apple's master plan. The suite is just in its infancy right now, so I think we'll see quite a few exciting improvements and additions to it as time goes on.
I doubt Apple's master plan is to compete directly with Office. Office is a "Pro" suite. iWork is positioned a tier below.

[~Shard~]

I doubt Apple's master plan is to compete directly with Office. Office is a "Pro" suite. iWork is positioned a tier below.

Yes, I didn't mean it would be a direct competitor, sorry. I think the suite will become a lot more extensive and impressive though over time, and will be an attractive alternative to Office for people who don't require Office's power.

[Rod Rod]

Yes, I didn't mean it would be a direct competitor, sorry. I think the suite will become a lot more extensive and impressive though over time, and will be an attractive alternative to Office for people who don't require Office's power.
Yup, similar to how Final Cut Express has grown to become a suite (with LiveType and Soundtrack now included), positioned below Final Cut Pro (which comes with Soundtrack Pro, Compressor 2, Cinema Tools and LiveType 2).

[~Shard~]

Yup, similar to how Final Cut Express has grown to become a suite (with Livetype and Soundtrack now included), positioned below Final Cut Studio.

Precisely. :)

[dudemac]

Yes, I didn't mean it would be a direct competitor, sorry. I think the suite will become a lot more extensive and impressive though over time, and will be an attractive alternative to Office for people who don't require Office's power.

My hope is that it reaches the level of Appleworks. Pages is close to being a good competitor to a freeform type of word processor/page layout tool. In most ways it is easier to use. As for competing with Office it would need to much more integrated with things like address book. Which is one of the things that bothers me... no mail merge from address book. Why this isn't a system service like Dictionary is beyond me. The other thing is really gets my goose is no standard templates for Term papers. After all this is beign marketed as a student app, but fails to include MLA or APA prefromated templates. I have made my own but this should be there. Just because they don't look pretty doesnt' mean they should not be included. (word doesn't include these either even the student and teacher edition.)


The other thing that I would really like to see is Pages and Keynote and any other potential iWork app to use an open doc format. This way in 5 years I am not suck with files that I have to convert to another format and possibly lose things in conversion. Like Appleworks right now. I have many docs saved in this format, but if I get rid of appleworks what will be able to use the stuff I have already made? An open doc standard like the one coming with Open Office 2.0, that way everything is compatable and there would be no more well we use word so I have to convert my pages doc so that you can use/read/open it. Why this can't be like other digital media?

thedude

[BWhaler]

Strange how different people have such different perspectives on things.

I think Word is horrible to use (which is explains why I dont use it often).

And in my opinion the feature that epitomizes words problems is its numbering feature.

Excel, on the other hand is an amazing program. Apple will have to come out with something very nifty if they want to get excel users to switch.

Wow. My thoughts EXACTLY. (Even down to the Word numbering "feature" which drove me crazy last night for hours.)

Pages has great promise, and I really hope v2 is a strong revision so I can dump word. (I will keep using Excel since it is MS's best product, by far.)

I really hope Apple is not scared off by the poor sales of iWork and they keep investing. When they get to the critical mass of features and they get the stupid bugs out, it will take off.

In the meantime, I hope 06 gives Pages a serious upgrade. Nothing would make me happier than to dump Word. Word sucks something fierce.

[BWhaler]

I doubt Apple's master plan is to compete directly with Office. Office is a "Pro" suite. iWork is positioned a tier below.

I disagree.

Keynote is Pro quality.

Yes, Pages is Appleworks quality, but frankly, Pages is a train wreck of a v1. If Apple put into Pages about 10-20 core features and got the bugs out, people would dump Word like there is no tomorrow.

The fact of the matter is this: people use about 5% of Office's power. And the only reason people flock to it is due to the file formats and compatibility with others.

Get iWork to have true, 100% Office file compatibility and beef up Pages and add a solid spreadsheet, and iWork will take off in a big way. No point spending that much on Office when you can get something better for a fraction of the price.

Apple is going to move slowly here. Not scare MS with a one-time major release. But iWork will be pro. Just give it time.

[aldo]

I disagree.

Keynote is Pro quality.

Yes, Pages is iWork quality, but frankly, Pages is a train wreck of a v1. If Apple put into Pages about 10-20 core features and got the bugs out, people would dump Word like there is no tomorrow.

The fact of the matter is this: people use about 5% of Office's power. And the only reason people flock to it is due to the file formats and compatibility with others.

Get iWork to have true, 100% Office file compatibility and beef up Pages and add a solid spreadsheet, and iWork will take off in a big way. No point spending that much on Office when you can get something better for a fraction of the price.

Apple is going to move slowly here. Not scare MS with a one-time major release. But iWork will be pro. Just give it time.

I agree that Pages is a terrible application. It's really unfinished, slow, and many parts of it extremely poorly thought out.

I have to also agree massively on the diasterous file format choice that Pages uses. What on earth were they thinking using a folder as a container? You'd of thought they'd of learnt from application bundles but having a word processor use a document format that is impossible to email/IM is very stupid. Did noone try emailing a pages document while they developed it?

I would suggest they use the OASIS file format from OpenOffice 2.0 or use .doc as the default. It's now all XML-ized and MS provides the specification for it, thanks to their recent EU court battle. This would force Apple to get the .doc import/export filter 100% perfect.

I also like Keynote but again, file formats play hell with it. Very, very few business/school computers have Quicktime/Keynote installed.

[Rod Rod]

I disagree.

Keynote is Pro quality.
I agree that Keynote gives excellent results. So does iDVD, especially when you modify the templates with your own images.

<snip>
The fact of the matter is this: people use about 5% of Office's power. And the only reason people flock to it is due to the file formats and compatibility with others.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Most people only use about 5% of Office's power. However, the reason people use it is just in case they ever need any of the remaining 95%. There are people who need all of Word's features so for them it's good that its file format is widespread.

By the same token, all Apple needs to do with iWork is build in the 5% of functionality that most people need, and if they include more than that it's all gravy.

<speculation> iWork's most likely purpose is to provide an elegant and easy solution for completing relatively simple "office" type tasks.</speculation>

Get iWork to have true, 100% Office file compatibility and beef up Pages and add a solid spreadsheet, and iWork will take off in a big way. No point spending that much on Office when you can get something better for a fraction of the price.

Apple is going to move slowly here. Not scare MS with a one-time major release. But iWork will be pro. Just give it time.
I agree that there's no point in spending the dough on Office when all you need is 1/20th of its features. If all you need is iMovie, it's a bad deal to be compelled to buy FCP. Similarly, iWork fills the hole left when AppleWorks development was (pretty much) abandoned.

MS Office is very important to the Mac. I suppose it's easy to underestimate its significance. It would be a disaster if MS stopped developing and supporting Office for Mac. There are plenty of office environments where OS X and Windows are on the same network and MS Office files need to be shared among them. Where I used to work we kept track of project status by editing an Excel file. The secretary and boss used Dells and the editors were all on Macs.

[~Shard~]

MS Office is very important to the Mac. I suppose it's easy to underestimate its significance. It would be a disaster if MS stopped developing and supporting Office for Mac. There are plenty of office environments where OS X and Windows are on the same network and MS Office files need to be shared among them. Where I used to work we kept track of project status by editing an Excel file. The secretary and boss used Dells and the editors were all on Macs.

I completely agree with this. Even from a non-business perspective, one of the questions I receive the most from potential switchers are, "Can I still use my Word and Excel on a Mac"? and I'm always happy to say "Yes!" - it helps debunk the whole "compatibility myth" PC users have when they think that nothing on Mac will interact with anything on their PC. I can think of lots of people who would be a lot more hesitant about switching to Mac (rightly or wrongly) if Office wasn't available.

As for how many of those people use Office to its fullest capacity is another question, but the point remains...

[DakotaGuy]

I wonder if this iWork will eventually be a viable option out of MS Office. I hope so.

I think for Apple it would be a bad idea to try and knock Office out. Office for Mac has it's place among thousands and thousands of Mac users like myself that have to work in a Windows world. Office 2004 is an excellent set of programs considering it comes from Microsoft.

Like I said before what Apple really needs is iWork to become the replacement for Appleworks. They need a spreadsheet program and then all 3 applications should come bundled on consumer Macs as a replacement for Appleworks. I think this is the plan and once we see a spreadsheet program and some improvements in Pages, iWork will become the standard for the consumer and education models.

I also believe there is a chance we will see a Windows version of iWork as well at least for educational markets. Many school districts are cross platform and right now they use either Appleworks for Mac and Windows or MS Office. If they are going to be serious about iWork, they need to look at a PC version as well.

[Rod Rod]

Office 2004 is an excellent set of programs considering it comes from Microsoft.
Microsoft has historically made Office better for Mac compared to the Windows version, so there should be no surprise there.

The Mac Business Unit at MS does a great job with Office. Where they lag badly is Messenger and WMP.

[yojitani]

Pages has been invaluable for my academic work when I've needed to deal with images - most of the time. Word simply cannot handle large numbers of images and does all kinds of crazy things with in-text images. The problem is that I've had to set up a kind of procedure making documents between word and pages: type up in pages and insert images, convert to word and then fill-in all notes with Endnote. This works so long as I don't decide to change anything (rare). If only Pages did endnotes! If only Endnote worked in Pages!
Still, I'm actually very fond of Pageshttp :)

[kretzy]

Where they lag badly is Messenger and WMP.

I totally agree!!!

Surely it can't be that difficult to add more features to Messenger for Mac - personal display pictures, animated emoticons, winks, nudges etc...many of these have been available to windows users for ages now, so i dont see why it is taking so long to integrate them into the Mac version. :confused:

As for WMP, its crap. Apple should just give Quicktime the ability to play WMP files.

[dcollierp]

My wife is about starting to work on a presentation and I thought to help her do it in Keynote (instead of a PC running powerpoint) but one thing I don't know is if the Keynote presentation can be run on a PC. No?

I have saved Keynote presentations to PDF and used Acrobat Reader on a PC viewing as full screen. You just dont have the fancy transitions that you have in Keynote.

[Rod Rod]

Apple should just give Quicktime the ability to play WMP files.
For $10 US: WMV Components (http://www.flip4mac.com/wmv.htm) allows playback of WMV content in QuickTime Player. It costs more to get additional functionality (import, export, HD export). At the moment it doesn't work in Tiger (their page says support is coming soon).

Apple is probably not building in WMV playback ability because it wants QuickTime to dominate, and maybe there'd be licensing fees involved if they included WMV export in QT Pro.

[BWhaler]

I use keynotes everyday. Pages is still too buggy.

i couldn't agree more.

Keynote is amazing. I get complements on my presentations all of the time, which makes my company look great.

I was so excited when I saw Pages at the Stevenote. But it didn't take long playing around with it to know it was a "developer's preview" in terms of quality.

I hope Pages in iWork 06 adds the 20 featues a word processor needs, gets the bugs and design flaws out, and adds speed. If so, I will be most pleased to dump word.

I can only hope...

[BWhaler]

I wonder if this iWork will eventually be a viable option out of MS Office. I hope so.

It will, but it will take time. Apple is going to move slowly on this, in part because iwork sales are not great and they want to spread the investment over the years. And in part, to keep MS happy and thinking iWork is just an Appleworks replacement.

But OpenOffice, et al, is weakening MS Office's hold on corporate IT. And with MS less able to play the file format games of the past, it is only a matter of time until Office doesn't have the stranglehold and people use common file formats.

And when that happens, Apple will go for the throat. Until then, they will keep giving us nice but modest upgrades each year or so.

[diehldun]

I just bought iWork '05, and have been using Word and PowerPoint for a long time; I'm impressed with Keynote (it will replace PowerPoint for me), but not with Pages (I'm just too familiar/used to Word, I like Word just as it is :) )

Anyways, so if I'm exporting my Keynote presentation to a PowerPoint computer (MacOS 9/Classic @ School, Windows XP @ anywhere else), I'll loose all the visual effects, if not most? Like transitions...

That would NOT be good at all... :(

[MontyZ]

iWork is still missing an iCalc.

[~Shard~]

iWork is still missing an iCalc.

You mean a spreadsheet program, or just a really fancy schmancy calculator? ;)