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bbapps
Dec 4, 2011, 09:17 PM
Looking at getting a new AV Receiver. The models I'm considering at the moment are the Denon AVR-1712 (http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PCatId=AVSolutions(DenonNA)&catalog=DenonNA_US&CatId=AVReceivers(DenonNA)&Pid=AVR1712(DenonNA)), Denon AVR-2112ci (http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PCatId=AVSolutions(DenonNA)&catalog=DenonNA_US&CatId=AVReceivers(DenonNA)&Pid=AVR2112CI(DenonNA)), and the Pioneer VSX-1021-K (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-1021-K).

I do have an AppleTV-2, so I'm thinking the Denon AVR-1712 (e.g. non-Networked) might save me some money. It doesn't support the Denon IOS App, but I think I could get along without it. Will I regret that choice? Any other recommendations?

Main use is ATV2/AirPlay (e.g. videos, music, internet radio), DVD/blueray, and TV (e.g. ATT U-Verse).



ericrwalker
Dec 4, 2011, 09:26 PM
I am in for the replies. My current and last receivers were pioneers. I have the vsx-1016-k model now. With I had one that worked with iDevices.

bgro
Dec 4, 2011, 10:02 PM
I have the pioneer vsx1020-k and am real happy with it. Saw the 1021 on sale for 300 today on skickdeals I think. Def a great buy

cwaddell2002
Dec 4, 2011, 10:06 PM
I have had Yamaha, Pioneer, and Sony in the past. The Denon is by far my favorite reciever. I think the Audyssey software is better than that offered by Pioneer. If you want some more opinions, go over to avsforum.com and do a search. Lots of knowledgeable people.

lsvtecjohn3
Dec 5, 2011, 04:39 AM
I just pick up a Denon AVR 1912 on black Friday and love it. I was reachering different Recivers for the past few months and couldn't be happier. I agree that you should go to avsforum that's where I read a lot of helpful information

ericrwalker
Dec 5, 2011, 07:43 AM
Nice to see all those HDMI ports in the back of those. Mine only has 2 in and 1 out. That's been an annoying factor for years.

penguy
Dec 5, 2011, 09:11 AM
I've decided on a refurbished NAD T747...it was that or the Denon 2112, and since I intend to use this as my main audio system, I went with the unit known for that quality. I'm definitely giving up some cool features on the Denon, though.

vrDrew
Dec 5, 2011, 09:24 AM
One thing I noticed about the Denon AVR-1712, as opposed to the other two receivers you listed, is that it didn't natively support AirPlay.

If you can afford the extra cost, this would be a feature that would be very nice to have. Being able to stream music from your iPad or iPhone to your receiver without having to turn the AppleTV on first would rank pretty high on my list of capabilities. Its not a "deal breaker" (my A/V setup doesn't permit this) - but I think its something you might end up regretting down the road.

ericrwalker
Dec 5, 2011, 09:24 AM
I never heard of NAD. Since they are Canadian, maybe they aren't so popular south of the Canadian border?

Uofmtiger
Dec 5, 2011, 09:40 AM
One thing I noticed about the Denon AVR-1712, as opposed to the other two receivers you listed, is that it didn't natively support AirPlay.

If you can afford the extra cost, this would be a feature that would be very nice to have. Being able to stream music from your iPad or iPhone to your receiver without having to turn the AppleTV on first would rank pretty high on my list of capabilities. Its not a "deal breaker" (my A/V setup doesn't permit this) - but I think its something you might end up regretting down the road.I agree. I have an Airplay capable Denon and you just need to select the app you want to play music from on the iOS device, then choose Denon from the Airplay list, and it will turn on the receiver and start playing audio.

With an AppleTV setup, you would need to turn your receiver on and make sure it is on the right input first.

I really like having a networked receiver. The ability to control the receiver from anywhere in the house using the app (or web address on a computer) is very convenient.

MovieCutter
Dec 5, 2011, 10:06 AM
I've got the Pioneer VSX-1021 and I love it. The iPad and iPhone app is great, Airplay is super easy, and it's got plenty of power and inputs. And if you can find it for $300, it's a steal.

bbapps
Dec 5, 2011, 01:08 PM
Right now my receiver has no HDMI ports (e.g. really time for an upgrade). I have all my HDMI connections going through the TV and then TV audio out to the receiver (e.g. TV acting as a receiver, receiver just there as an amplifier) which is not fun. TV does not support HDMI 1.4 (e.g. Audio Return), but will want that capability in the future.

So I guess, my immediate need is to clean that mess up. But, I'm thinking you guys are right, really going to regret it latter if I don't get one of the network receivers; thus just turn on the receiver for music. Leaning towards the Denon given it supports Pandora while the Pioneer does not.

I have been lurking in avsforums too, my take is everyone leans towards the Denon in terms of a slight sound quality edge and leans towards the Pioneer in terms of GUI and the possibility of a better deal (e.g. like the one bgro mentions). Decisions, Decisions

I might put the Denon AVR-1912 (http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PCatId=AVSolutions%28DenonNA%29&catalog=DenonNA_US&CatId=AVReceivers%28DenonNA%29&Pid=AVR1912%28DenonNA%29)back into the mix, main reason in considering the 2112ci was for Audyssey MultEQ "XT".

Uofmtiger
Dec 5, 2011, 01:25 PM
I might put the Denon AVR-1912 back into the mix, main reason in considering the 2112ci was for Audyssey MultEQ "XT". The MultEQ XT is worth the money in my experience.

I have been lurking in avsforums too, my take is everyone leans towards the Denon in terms of a slight sound quality edge and leans towards the Pioneer in terms of GUII have no experience with Pioneer to confirm or deny this statement, but if it is true, I would think about whether you spend more time messing with menus or listening to your receiver.

penguy
Dec 5, 2011, 01:52 PM
I never heard of NAD. Since they are Canadian, maybe they aren't so popular south of the Canadian border?

They are popular, but in the high end audiophile world. They are/were generally considered to be one of the best options to equipment costing many thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. The receiver I mentioned listed at about $1400, but refurbed is only $550...definitely doesn't have all the bells and whistles though. One thing they are known for is under representing their power output and providing incredibly clean power far in excess of their rating, if that's important to you.

ericrwalker
Dec 5, 2011, 01:54 PM
Good thing I am not an audiophile. I'd be broke.


They are popular, but in the high end audiophile world. They are/were generally considered to be one of the best options to equipment costing many thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. The receiver I mentioned listed at about $1400, but refurbed is only $550...definitely doesn't have all the bells and whistles though. One thing they are known for is under representing their power output and providing incredibly clean power far in excess of their rating, if that's important to you.

Hammie
Dec 5, 2011, 02:36 PM
What is your budget? What are the main features you are looking for? What type of setup will it be going into -- speakers, sources, etc.?

Depending on budget, I would say Anthem, Onkyo, and Denon in that order. I have never been a huge fan of Sony or Pioneer AV gear. These are based on room correction and options primarily.

My top three suggestions (without knowing budget are:

Anthem MX300 ($1000 MSRP) - Offers ARC, which may be the best room correction on the market. This line brings many of the features and technologies available in the $7000 top of the line D2v processor from Anthem.

Anthem MX500 ($1500 MSRP) - Everything the MX300 has plus adds an Ethernet port for streaming and USB audio support.

Onkyo 3008/3009 ($2100 MSRP) - features Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which is the best Audyssey room correction on the market. This is also jam packed with tons of features that you may never ever use, but will glad they are there if you ever do need them. ;)

If it matters, I own the Onkyo Pro 5508 ($2200 MSRP), which is the very big brother of the Onkyo 3008, but I was looking at the Anthem 50v ($4500 MSRP) but it came down to price in the end.

And yes, eric, being an audiophile does hurt the bank account more often than not... :p :cool:

bobr1952
Dec 5, 2011, 02:38 PM
I would spend some time here--great info on everything audio and visual.

http://www.avsforum.com/

As for me, I decided on a Marantz 6005 receiver.

Hammie
Dec 5, 2011, 03:18 PM
I would spend some time here--great info on everything audio and visual.

http://www.avsforum.com/

As for me, I decided on a Marantz 6005 receiver.

Marantz and Denon are the same company, D&M Holdings. Features and sound will be similar.

bbapps
Dec 5, 2011, 03:54 PM
I decided on a Marantz 6005 receiver.

Actually, I was looking at the Marantz 1602 (http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=&ProductId=NR1602). I really like the Marantz slimline, just a tad bit out of my price-range, wanted to stay around the 500+- (+100, -500) range. Seems to me more classes of slim-downed receivers is needed in the market.

Which answers, Hammies question, nice, nice, nice, but just can't do it (e.g. unless I wanted to add a divorce into the package).

Dan--
Dec 5, 2011, 03:59 PM
I think the Denon 1712 would be a good choice. See here for model distinctions and recommendations.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1334369

NAD makes some nice stuff, pretty well regarded for sound quality.

bbapps
Dec 5, 2011, 04:08 PM
The MultEQ XT is worth the money in my experience.

+1 Denon AVR-2112ci

I have no experience with Pioneer to confirm or deny this statement, but if it is true, I would think about whether you spend more time messing with menus or listening to your receiver.

Makes sense. But, I was thinking with these network receivers (e.g. things like Pandora, itunes, ....), you might actually be using those menus more. At least I assume that, need to look at the manuals more closely on actually controlling a networked source.

----------

I think the Denon 1712 would be a good choice. See here for model distinctions and recommendations.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1334369

NAD makes some nice stuff, pretty well regarded for sound quality.

That is a nice thread, led me to the 2112ci over the 1912. Really starting to think networked which leaves the 1712 behind.

bbapps
Dec 5, 2011, 04:34 PM
Concerning these network receivers and ATV2. The network receivers have a ethernet port (e.g. no built-in WiFi), can the receiver join the network by connecting the receiver to the ethernet port on the ATV2?

Update: just did a quick search on apple support site, the answer was "NO". Sure would be nice, guess I'll have an Airport Express and an ATV2 sitting beside each other.

Uofmtiger
Dec 5, 2011, 10:30 PM
Makes sense. But, I was thinking with these network receivers (e.g. things like Pandora, itunes, ....), you might actually be using those menus more. At least I assume that, need to look at the manuals more closely on actually controlling a networked source.Not sure about all Denons, but mine has a button on the remote that takes you right to the Internet audio menu. To play Pandora, you hit one button, choose Pandora from the menu, then choose your station. When people complain about the GUI, they are probably referring to seldom changed features that are buried in folders. Once you use it a while, finding features in the menus gets a lot easier.

bobr1952
Dec 6, 2011, 06:55 AM
Actually, I was looking at the Marantz 1602 (http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=&ProductId=NR1602). I really like the Marantz slimline, just a tad bit out of my price-range, wanted to stay around the 500+- (+100, -500) range. Seems to me more classes of slim-downed receivers is needed in the market.

Which answers, Hammies question, nice, nice, nice, but just can't do it (e.g. unless I wanted to add a divorce into the package).

Well for the price then I would go with the Denon. As Hammie pointed out, Denon and Marantz are owned by the same company. Some suggest the Marantz sound is a bit warmer but I just liked the looks of the Marantz and went for it. I think you would be happy with the Denon. Denon and Onkyo (as well as Marantz) use Audyssey for room set-up--and I find it does an excellent job and something that also factored into my decision.

This is my setup:

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=spiritfox

mikepro
Dec 6, 2011, 10:48 AM
The Pioneer is a great receiver, and has an absolutely awesome ipad interface, which lets you easily control everything, as well as see all of the MCAC room correction graphs and information, as well as tweak it.

Basically, you pretty much can't go wrong with the Pioneer or Denon. But, I think Pioneer significantly wins on price and interface, and is very comparable in sound quality. You may also wish to look at some Onkyo receivers, as those are also some outstanding bang for the buck receivers.

I own the Pioneer VSX-1120.

bbapps
Dec 6, 2011, 09:25 PM
Just an update, I decided on the Denon 2112ci, figured I would regret not having network capability and just couldn't find any fantastic deals on the Pioneer.

I did find a good deal on some Polk Audio Monitor 60 speakers at newegg.com, with the promo-code they ended up being $99 a speaker. I went ahead and bought a pair of those too. :)

Thanks all for the feedback!!!!

FredTheDeadHead
Dec 6, 2011, 10:52 PM
When I was shopping for a AV receiver about a year ago, I was looking at Denon, Onkyo, and Yamaha. I chose a Denon for my system, but a friend got a Onkyo that I also like.

My only real compliant is that the Denon manual is not as 'clear' and straightforward as it should be. I needed some help from a friend to navigate all of the setup menus, and I am pretty familiar with audio gear. But the sound is great.

bobpensik
Dec 13, 2011, 01:54 PM
What is your budget? What are the main features you are looking for? What type of setup will it be going into -- speakers, sources, etc.?

Depending on budget, I would say Anthem, Onkyo, and Denon in that order. I have never been a huge fan of Sony or Pioneer AV gear. These are based on room correction and options primarily.

My top three suggestions (without knowing budget are:

Anthem MX300 ($1000 MSRP) - Offers ARC, which may be the best room correction on the market. This line brings many of the features and technologies available in the $7000 top of the line D2v processor from Anthem.

Anthem MX500 ($1500 MSRP) - Everything the MX300 has plus adds an Ethernet port for streaming and USB audio support.

Onkyo 3008/3009 ($2100 MSRP) - features Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which is the best Audyssey room correction on the market. This is also jam packed with tons of features that you may never ever use, but will glad they are there if you ever do need them. ;)

If it matters, I own the Onkyo Pro 5508 ($2200 MSRP), which is the very big brother of the Onkyo 3008, but I was looking at the Anthem 50v ($4500 MSRP) but it came down to price in the end.

And yes, eric, being an audiophile does hurt the bank account more often than not... :p :cool:


I have a Mac Mini hooked up to an Anthem MRX300 and I could not be happier.

whiteyanderson
Dec 14, 2011, 04:21 AM
Marantz and Denon are the same company, D&M Holdings. Features and sound will be similar.

Actually no, the Marantz receivers sound QUITE different than the Denon's, especially when using them for music listening. Even though they are both owned by D&M. Marantz also specs it's power ratings realistically, meaning if they say it's 90 watts per channel it is. Denon also has a higher failure rate.

Marantz + Paradigm = beauty.

Weaselboy
Dec 14, 2011, 12:32 PM
Actually no, the Marantz receivers sound QUITE different than the Denon's, especially when using them for music listening. Even though they are both owned by D&M. Marantz also specs it's power ratings realistically, meaning if they say it's 90 watts per channel it is. Denon also has a higher failure rate.

Marantz + Paradigm = beauty.

I don't know about every model, but I have a Denon 3311 and it is exactly the same inside as a Marantz SR7005. You can check the test results in reviews/tests and they are the same.

whiteyanderson
Dec 20, 2011, 12:19 AM
I don't know about every model, but I have a Denon 3311 and it is exactly the same inside as a Marantz SR7005. You can check the test results in reviews/tests and they are the same.

I returned the 3311 after making a decision to try out Denon over Marantz for the first time ever after reading the same things last year. I returned it within a few weeks and went back to Marantz. On the surface, Denon's may appear to be the same, however they are not. The Marantz simply sounds warmer for music listening. This is even more evident when listening to vinyl. I will agree that for digital sources such as mp3 and Blu Ray, they sound "similar" but again, there is a difference albeit smaller.

If you do a little more research you will find other reviews stating that the Marantz does indeed perform differently with analog sources. I've read all the reports.

There is a reason Denon makes 50 A/V receiver models yearly and Marantz makes like 4. The 3311 and the SR7005, heck the 3311 and the SR5005 and SR6005 are different sounding. I have done real world comparisons. You will find a lot of 3311 owners claiming it sounds JUST like a SR7005. But you won't find too many 7005 owners saying their 7005 sounds like a 3311. Is it a way to justify spending less to make some feel like they have not skimped on their purchase, or vice-versa I do not know. I'm an avid A/V buff. I'm not trying to be a jerk either I'm just speaking from my experience. For the record- I did not return the 3311 for an SR7005, I returned the 3311 for an SR5005. The 7005 is beautiful, I just realized after the Denon experience that I did not need all the bells and whistles. I have plenty of other ways to stream to my system that it was just overkill. The SR6005 on the other hand is a waste of extra dollars, it offers not much more than a 10 watt increase and possibly a color GUI. In my mind it's either the 5005 or the 7005. Anyway, the 5005 murders the 3311 for my musical tastes. of course YMMV.

omnimoeish
Dec 20, 2011, 04:40 AM
If you like watching a lot of movies, especially action, where the explosions get loud, or the music is 3x louder than the dialog, you may think about getting a Harman Kardon with Dolby Volume which automatically normalizes the volume on the fly. They have very nice sound and very nice auto room adjustment (plug in a microphone and put it where you'll be sitting and it pretty much does the rest). I'm not a die hard A/V fanatic but it's very nice. I bought my first H/K receiver in 1996. It never had one single problem and I sold it last year working as good as the day I bought it.

iHOUBSTER
Dec 23, 2011, 05:31 AM
Hello , I have the mac mini 2,5ghz 2011 (8gb) , & would like to buy the sony AV: STR -DH820 does it function well ???

pj1976
Jan 2, 2012, 12:28 PM
Hi Guys,
If you don't mind me jumping into this conversation I have a question?
what would be the better A/V receiver Anthem MX300 or the Yamaha RX-A-1000?

thanks

Bye Bye Baby
Jan 2, 2012, 12:34 PM
Onkyo 609- great piece of kit.

carlgo
Jan 2, 2012, 03:43 PM
My Onkyo died prematurely and out of warranty, so I got a Denon 1612, which has some similarities to other models mentioned here.

It has 4 HDMI ports, the only way to go. It will support all the current technologies included 3D (if you have the proper HDMI cables). The Audessey set up works, but maybe the more expensive version would be better. Just don't know.

It is connected to an AppleTv2, a DirecTv HD receiver, a Sony Blu-ray player and a 42" Panasonic. All is controlled with a Harmony 1 remote. Not a bad system at all, although clearly not near the top end.

All the receivers mentioned here would work in much the same way I think, but features and price won me over to this one at the time, plus ratings by others who seemed to know what they were talking about.

BTW, in regards to the sound quality it is not clear to me that one is going to hear much of a difference in the usual non-optimized listening room. If you have a special properly designed listening room and really good speakers you could perhaps pick up meaningful differences.

KevinC867
Jan 2, 2012, 07:15 PM
Onkyo 609- great piece of kit.

+1

I've had the older model 607 for a few years and I love it. Great value for a very capable receiver.