PDA

View Full Version : Blu-Ray rips -- am I expecting too much?




MattG
Dec 7, 2011, 05:45 PM
I'm in the process of ripping my Blu-Ray collection to my NAS server, hopefully so I can play them on my AppleTV 2s.

In short, it seems no combination of different settings (including Handbrake's native AppleTV 2 preset) gives me good end-results on AppleTV. The video just is not as smooth as the original. Note, the image quality is great. It's just during scenes with motion, every few seconds there's this little stutter in the video (audio is fine), and it's driving me nuts.

I've tried many different combinations of settings. I've dropped the settings down drastically, so it's only doing a 720p rip, at a reasonable bit-rate. The exported videos play PERFECTLY on my Macbook Pro and even my Mac Mini, so I don't think it's the video files themselves. One of the Apple TVs is connected via Ethernet, the other by Wireless-N. I don't think it's a buffering issue, as when I pause the movie while it's 'stuttering', the progress bar shows a significant amount of video has been cached.

So, am I just expecting too much??? I mean ideally I want to rip these things at 1080p, as a means of future proofing...but the Apple TV can't even seem to handle them at 720p. Do I need to move on to something other than an Apple TV (Boxee? Roku?)? What have others here experienced?



jayhawk11
Dec 7, 2011, 08:04 PM
I'm in the process of ripping my Blu-Ray collection to my NAS server, hopefully so I can play them on my AppleTV 2s.

In short, it seems no combination of different settings (including Handbrake's native AppleTV 2 preset) gives me good end-results on AppleTV. The video just is not as smooth as the original. Note, the image quality is great. It's just during scenes with motion, every few seconds there's this little stutter in the video (audio is fine), and it's driving me nuts.

I've tried many different combinations of settings. I've dropped the settings down drastically, so it's only doing a 720p rip, at a reasonable bit-rate. The exported videos play PERFECTLY on my Macbook Pro and even my Mac Mini, so I don't think it's the video files themselves. One of the Apple TVs is connected via Ethernet, the other by Wireless-N. I don't think it's a buffering issue, as when I pause the movie while it's 'stuttering', the progress bar shows a significant amount of video has been cached.

So, am I just expecting too much??? I mean ideally I want to rip these things at 1080p, as a means of future proofing...but the Apple TV can't even seem to handle them at 720p. Do I need to move on to something other than an Apple TV (Boxee? Roku?)? What have others here experienced?

I would double check your setup. I don't have any issues, even when I convert using High Profile with Handbrake.

BigAudio
Dec 7, 2011, 08:33 PM
What are you using as a display?

blueroom
Dec 7, 2011, 08:46 PM
Change the quality setting to 23 for Blu-Ray

MattG
Dec 7, 2011, 08:48 PM
I would double check your setup. I don't have any issues, even when I convert using High Profile with Handbrake.

Believe me, I have. Not sure what else to check. I've tried a number of presets -- some were delivered with Handbrake, no changes, while some were based on others' recommendations.

What are you using as a display?

Both are Samsung LCD TVs. One is a brand new 32", and one is a 46" that is several years old.

tmagman
Dec 7, 2011, 10:02 PM
So, am I just expecting too much??? I mean ideally I want to rip these things at 1080p, as a means of future proofing...but the Apple TV can't even seem to handle them at 720p. Do I need to move on to something other than an Apple TV (Boxee? Roku?)? What have others here experienced?

If you're okay with a large hard drive collection or several TB RAID setup, convert the blu-rays to mkv files which is essentially the uncompressed movie file using makemkv and then down converting them to 720p mp4s, keeping both copies. That way you have the 1080p files (which could be played on xbmc or something like that directly) and the mp4 files for all your apple devices.

peterjcat
Dec 7, 2011, 11:26 PM
A few people are reporting problems with ATV2 and Samsung LCD. Try "Game mode" and/or double-check for any Motion Plus settings that may have become triggered.

MattG
Dec 8, 2011, 12:47 AM
If you're okay with a large hard drive collection or several TB RAID setup, convert the blu-rays to mkv files which is essentially the uncompressed movie file using makemkv and then down converting them to 720p mp4s, keeping both copies. That way you have the 1080p files (which could be played on xbmc or something like that directly) and the mp4 files for all your apple devices.

This is exactly what I'm doing now. I'm using MakeMKV, and then using Handbrake to down convert. The 720p files dont play smoothly on my AppleTV.

DeusInvictus7
Dec 8, 2011, 10:02 AM
What bitrate do the converted movies end up being? All of my 720p BR rips are around the 5mbps mark and they play just fine on my ATV. But then again, I haven't tried any higher to see if it'll stutter. But 5mbps looks great.

That said though, I haven't tried any 1080p encodes just yet. I have all the MKVs of my blu-rays waiting if there's a 1080p ATV coming lol :D

EDIT: I didn't read tmagman's comment, which is exactly what I am doing lol, keeping both files.

CylonGlitch
Dec 8, 2011, 10:10 AM
I have my data being streamed from an ATV1 running Leopard. This gets streamed to computers, and ATV2's connected to 50" Pioneer Elite and a 60" LG. No stuttering anywhere and everything is wired ethernet (1 gb).

Question, what is streaming the video? You have to have iTunes running somewhere, is that machine on Ethernet and is it powerful enough? I noticed that the ATV1 is good enough to stream maybe 2 videos at one time but more than that and it has problems. I'd like to upgrade it to a MacMini Server; but I'm not quite there yet.

OptyCT
Dec 8, 2011, 10:22 AM
I've ripped many blu-rays and have no issue with stutter. My setup sounds very similar to yours. It doesn't sound like it's an AppleTV or video conversion problem. I would focus on the television settings. My files play perfectly on my Panny plasma. However, this past summer we rented a vacation house which had a Sammy LCD. I noticed some stutter when streaming to it using the AppleTV. Of course, I didn't have enough time to play around with the settings. So, if I had to guess, I would say it's something with the TV settings.

jmcgeejr
Dec 8, 2011, 12:10 PM
I'm in the process of ripping my Blu-Ray collection to my NAS server, hopefully so I can play them on my AppleTV 2s.

In short, it seems no combination of different settings (including Handbrake's native AppleTV 2 preset) gives me good end-results on AppleTV. The video just is not as smooth as the original. Note, the image quality is great. It's just during scenes with motion, every few seconds there's this little stutter in the video (audio is fine), and it's driving me nuts.

I've tried many different combinations of settings. I've dropped the settings down drastically, so it's only doing a 720p rip, at a reasonable bit-rate. The exported videos play PERFECTLY on my Macbook Pro and even my Mac Mini, so I don't think it's the video files themselves. One of the Apple TVs is connected via Ethernet, the other by Wireless-N. I don't think it's a buffering issue, as when I pause the movie while it's 'stuttering', the progress bar shows a significant amount of video has been cached.

So, am I just expecting too much??? I mean ideally I want to rip these things at 1080p, as a means of future proofing...but the Apple TV can't even seem to handle them at 720p. Do I need to move on to something other than an Apple TV (Boxee? Roku?)? What have others here experienced?

As others have stated this sounds like the 24hz bug that the atv2 and samsung displays have (not only samsung but others well), try looking for your motion plus settings and setting them accordingly. It sounds like your TV is converting 24hz to 60hz instead of 72hz

Defender2010
Dec 8, 2011, 01:23 PM
If you have "MotionPlus" turned on, make sure it is set to "Clear" otherwise turn it off. (On your Samsung LCD TV)

MattG
Dec 8, 2011, 03:05 PM
Thanks everyone -- I'll certainly take a closer look at my TV settings. I don't think the model in my living room has a MotionPlus setting, but it does have a "Game Mode."

This is what I have:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/483565-REG/Samsung_LNT4661F_LN_T4661F_46_Wide_LCD.html

...and these are the models Samsung says have MotionPlus:
http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/jsp/faqs/faqs_view_us.jsp?SITE_ID=1&PG_ID=3&PROD_SUB_ID=41&PROD_ID=154&AT_ID=95858

CylonGlitch
Question, what is streaming the video? You have to have iTunes running somewhere, is that machine on Ethernet and is it powerful enough? I noticed that the ATV1 is good enough to stream maybe 2 videos at one time but more than that and it has problems. I'd like to upgrade it to a MacMini Server; but I'm not quite there yet.

The machine is on Ethernet. It's a Mac Mini, and its sole purpose is running iTunes.

hipnetic
Dec 9, 2011, 09:48 AM
As others have said, it definitely sounds like the sort of stutter I experienced early on and which I effectively eliminated by changing some of the settings on my television.

rayward
Dec 9, 2011, 03:02 PM
This is exactly what I'm doing now. I'm using MakeMKV, and then using Handbrake to down convert. The 720p files dont play smoothly on my AppleTV.

The ATV2 preset fixes the framerate at 23.xxx. I always change this to "Same as Source" (same with the iPhone 4 preset, FWIW). Stuttering is always caused by a bitrate overload, and I experience it on certain movies with lots of grain in the picture (e.g. Hurt Locker, Saving Private Ryan), but you should never get that on an ATV2 as it has a better chip than my ATV1s.

The solution to excessive bitrate spikes is to increase the RF factor from 20 to something a little higher. Go up in small increments (fractions), recode and see how that works. I find that +1 or +2 will solve stuttering on my ATV1s, and you should not need to do that much.

peterjcat
Dec 9, 2011, 04:36 PM
It's not bitrate, it's the Samsung doing something weird with 720p inputs.

MattG
Dec 9, 2011, 06:02 PM
It's not bitrate, it's the Samsung doing something weird with 720p inputs.

One thing that I stupidly forgot to mention, is that one of my TVs only goes up to 720p. The smaller 32" in the bedroom is only a 720. So in that case, it's matching the Apple TV, and there is no conversion. Even there, it still gets choppy at times.

peterjcat
Dec 10, 2011, 03:16 AM
That might not necessarily make a difference -- the problem is usually that video processing is done even when it doesn't need to be. There are/were at least a few Samsung and Panasonic LCDs where motion interpolation was impossible to turn off (except in Game Mode), and more that default to On for each input and even each resolution/timing so you have to be extra vigilant in keeping it off. I don't know if that's the problem here but it still sounds like the most likely culprit.

PilotWoo
Dec 10, 2011, 05:54 AM
Older Samsung TVs don't cope well with AppleTV2. ATV2 can output a 50Hz or 60Hz signal, but it negotiates with the TV as to which one is best. Mine always wanted to use 60Hz. As my video (here in the UK) is 25fps it would result in a stutter every few seconds. However Apple (with the latest ATV software) now allow you to fix the frequency displayed from the AppleTV. Look in your ATV settings and you will see options to fix the refresh rate. I set mine to 720p 50Hz and the stuttering went away completely.

MattG
Dec 10, 2011, 06:12 AM
Older Samsung TVs don't cope well with AppleTV2. ATV2 can output a 50Hz or 60Hz signal, but it negotiates with the TV as to which one is best. Mine always wanted to use 60Hz. As my video (here in the UK) is 25fps it would result in a stutter every few seconds. However Apple (with the latest ATV software) now allow you to fix the frequency displayed from the AppleTV. Look in your ATV settings and you will see options to fix the refresh rate. I set mine to 720p 50Hz and the stuttering went away completely.

I tried this...my LN-T4661 would not work with AppleTV when set at 50Hz. :(

That might not necessarily make a difference -- the problem is usually that video processing is done even when it doesn't need to be. There are/were at least a few Samsung and Panasonic LCDs where motion interpolation was impossible to turn off (except in Game Mode), and more that default to On for each input and even each resolution/timing so you have to be extra vigilant in keeping it off. I don't know if that's the problem here but it still sounds like the most likely culprit.

Not sure what else to do. Neither of my TVs have a setting for MotionPlus, and on both TVs, I've enabled Game Mode. It doesn't seem to make a difference. Any other settings I should look at?

Rigged
Dec 12, 2011, 09:09 PM
I checked a home theater forum for your issue and I noticed that the model after yours had the same kind of stuttering issues with multiple sources. One thing you could try is upgrading the firmware this looks like the correct page for you but I would contact Samsung first and ask if there are any TSB for picture problems.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/downloads/lcd-tv/LN-T4661F

I also took a quick look at your user manual for your TV and didn't see any obvious options that would cause the stuttering effect. Try going through your TV settings again and check to see if there are any kind of settings that could even remotely have an affect on the picture.

I had the exact same problem with my Sony Z4100 and watching Netflix or any kind of streaming content. The culprit was "Cinemotion" after turning it off all stuttering disappeared.

MattG
Dec 13, 2011, 05:17 AM
I checked a home theater forum for your issue and I noticed that the model after yours had the same kind of stuttering issues with multiple sources. One thing you could try is upgrading the firmware this looks like the correct page for you but I would contact Samsung first and ask if there are any TSB for picture problems.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/downloads/lcd-tv/LN-T4661F

I also took a quick look at your user manual for your TV and didn't see any obvious options that would cause the stuttering effect. Try going through your TV settings again and check to see if there are any kind of settings that could even remotely have an affect on the picture.

I had the exact same problem with my Sony Z4100 and watching Netflix or any kind of streaming content. The culprit was "Cinemotion" after turning it off all stuttering disappeared.

Thanks Rigged

I am on the latest firmware already; I figured it might be a good precaution. I've tried every setting that looks like it could have something to do with the video. Can't seem to find anything that helps :(

Rigged
Dec 13, 2011, 07:19 AM
No problem. Is it possible to view either your MBP or Mac Mini on the TVs temporarily? If so that could eliminate what the cause of the stuttering might be. I would try to use HDMI between the TVs and Macs so that you're only introducing one variable.

MattG
Dec 13, 2011, 08:44 AM
No problem. Is it possible to view either your MBP or Mac Mini on the TVs temporarily? If so that could eliminate what the cause of the stuttering might be. I would try to use HDMI between the TVs and Macs so that you're only introducing one variable.

That's a great idea... I will try connecting the MBP to the TV and see what happens.

MattG
Dec 26, 2011, 12:37 PM
So, update:

I have not yet had a chance to troubleshoot by connecting my MBP to the Samsung and playing the same movie (need to locate some cables).

However, in the meantime -- I received a Roku XS for Christmas. The same movie, played on the Roku (over a G network no less, where the ATV was on N), is noticeably smoother than when played through the ATV. So, I'm pretty much convinced it's not the way I'm ripping these, and the TVs seem to be capable. Guess maybe I just need to wait until Apple has a 1080p native AppleTV, or something.

mrfrosty
Dec 26, 2011, 01:45 PM
Sounds to me like your converting them at the wrong frame rate. Don't let handbrake guess the framerate, tell it what it is..see if that makes a difference.

MattG
Dec 26, 2011, 01:47 PM
Sounds to me like your converting them at the wrong frame rate. Don't let handbrake guess the framerate, tell it what it is..see if that makes a difference.

Thanks, but have already tried both ways.

ryanide
Dec 27, 2011, 08:23 PM
I have a Mac Mini Server running iTunes to ATV2 over Gigabit Ethernet with files created from MKV>Handbrake ATV2 conversion. It is displayed on a Samsung 60" LCD with 720MHZ clear motion and my video is also jittery at times. Seems to also happen on downloaded HD content from iTunes, so it must be something to do with the TV setting.

So far no solution!

jmcgeejr
Dec 27, 2011, 08:25 PM
I have a Mac Mini Server running iTunes to ATV2 over Gigabit Ethernet with files created from MKV>Handbrake ATV2 conversion. It is displayed on a Samsung 60" LCD with 720MHZ clear motion and my video is also jittery at times. Seems to also happen on downloaded HD content from iTunes, so it must be something to do with the TV setting.

So far no solution!

I bet your sammy is set to smooth the video which set's it's refresh rate incorrectly to match the media atv2 plays. Let me see if I can find the info regarding that. Ok it's the smooth motion, you need to set it to off for your ATV2 input.