Corby sentenced to 20 years in jail

[DeSnousa]

This has been a heated topic down here in oz and around the world i would say. Well she has been sentenced for a whooping 20 years. Good considering she was facing a death penalty and then life, but non the least sad.

I don't really no if you is innocent or not but thats an outrageous jail sentence.

Corby will be appealing the case and i believe they are also trying to get her to serve the sentence in Australia.

News link (http://theage.com.au/news/National/Corby-sentenced-to-20-years-in-jail/2005/05/27/1117129882569.html)

More info and images (www.theage.com.au)

[mad jew]

I don't believe she did it. Your right, this is good compared to a death sentence but it's still unfair.

IMO, Indonesia's making a big mistake. They were just recovering from the tourism slump after the Bali bombings and now this. I was all set to go there in September but I reckon Thailand's looking a little more promising at the moment.

My heart goes out to Corby.

[DeSnousa]

Oh i agree many people are going to boycott going to Indonesia.

[MongoTheGeek]

So her claim is that baggage handlers in Oz planted the drugs in her luggage?

Did she have any proof?

[deanbo]

I think the sentence is outrageous and disgusting even if she did do it. 20 years for that amount of Marijuana is ridiculous, and I believe a heinous violation of human rights.

I have heard rumors that baggage handlers place drugs in tourists luggage to get them through customs.

The trick is to have your bags weighed, and reweighed when you arrive.

But 20 years, my god!

[MongoTheGeek]

I think the sentence is outrageous and disgusting even if she did do it. 20 years for that amount of Marijuana is ridiculous, and I believe a heinous violation of human rights.

I have heard rumors that baggage handlers place drugs in tourists luggage to get them through customs.

The trick is to have your bags weighed, and reweighed when you arrive.

But 20 years, my god!

Ah but the TSA can just steal an equal weight of your stuff ;)

[DeSnousa]

So her claim is that baggage handlers in Oz planted the drugs in her luggage?

Did she have any proof?

Guilty or not the 20 years is just outrages.

On some other news i found out that her name is reregistered as a business. That if found innocent and released she would sit on A$2 million for the first year. Although im a bit wary as it was coming from a current affair program.

[Applespider]

Doesn't Indonesia have the death sentence for drug smugglers? In that light, 20 years might not look so bad. Their viewpoint is that having incredibly high sentences discourages smugglers; in general, I prefer harsher to lenient punishments. One of the problems that I seem to recall about both Bali and Thailand is the difficulty in ensuring that foreigners get a fair trial - in terms of having access to lawyers who speak their language and who can explain the legal process etc

I'm not sure this has received much attention outside of Australia (at least til now). I know I hadn't seen anything about it on the BBC website until I went rooting through the Asia-Pacific section after reading here. She does look utterly shocked on that image.

On the face of it the evidence is damning, drugs found in bag on arrival. What evidence did the defense try to bring in to establish doubt? The only thing I've seen reference to (in my admittedly brief look) was 'baggage handlers did it because her bags were unlocked which wasn't going to fly with the judges since otherwise anyone really smuggling would just leave bags open and go for it.

I'm assuming they brought in character witnesses to say that she didn't use drugs. Did they find any baggage handlers on duty with a history of drug use or a suspicious level of funds? Any evidence of 'inadvertent' drug mules being used in the past?

[deanbo]

On the face of it the evidence is damning, drugs found in bag on arrival. What evidence did the defense try to bring in to establish doubt? The only thing I've seen reference to (in my admittedly brief look) was 'baggage handlers did it because her bags were unlocked which wasn't going to fly with the judges since otherwise anyone really smuggling would just leave bags open and go for it.

I'm assuming they brought in character witnesses to say that she didn't use drugs. Did they find any baggage handlers on duty with a history of drug use or a suspicious level of funds? Any evidence of 'inadvertent' drug mules being used in the past?

To establish doubt in this case, the first question I would have is motive. What would motivate someone who looks reasonably intelligent and well off to do something this dumb?

Secondly in regards to the 9 people accused of heroin trafficing, well most of them to me look like extremely stupid and naive teenagers, who thought they could make a quick buck.

These people aren't terroists, rapists or murderers, but get treated as such anyway.

[barneygumble]

I for one don't have too much of a problem with it!

Before anyone kicks up a stink with this consider the facts.

1. She had 4.1kg of cryvacked(spelling?) marijuana in her boogy bag note the bag was shaped considerably like a body bag
2. She initially refused to open the bag when customs in indonesia asked her to, she then started to yell and scream when they did begin to open it
3. She had had many trips to bali over the past year??
4. The indonesian legal system is as good as any other, in fact in some ways it is probably better in that leniant sentances are seldom given

Oh and yes i am a right wing prick :D

[gwuMACaddict]

To establish doubt in this case, the first question I would have is motive. What would motivate someone who looks reasonably intelligent and well off to do something this dumb?

so if you're already rich and well-educated, you should always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to criminal charges??

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

honestly, a life sentance seems ridiculous to me too. but whats the problem with 20 years? sounds like she had a lot of the drugs... granted, i dont know much about the case, but just from the article that was linked- can anyone provide a more detailed account?

[stubeeef]

so if you're already rich and well-educated, you should always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to criminal charges??

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

honestly, a life sentance seems ridiculous to me too. but whats the problem with 20 years? sounds like she had a lot of the drugs... granted, i dont know much about the case, but just from the article that was linked- can anyone provide a more detailed account?

Ya the deanbo post really confused me too! One minute talking of her innocents and the next some "looked" guilty.
Secondly in regards to the 9 people accused of heroin trafficing, well most of them to me look like extremely stupid and naive teenagers, who thought they could make a quick buck.

I am not knowledgeable enough about this case, but as bad as people like to slam the US on our issues, I am EXTREMELY careful going into SE Asia and South Asia.
I lived in Micronesia for 3 years, and a certain paranoia is healthy.

[SiliconAddict]

20 years for smuggling weed? :eek: Assuming for a second that she actually did it. That's just asinine. I mean for the love of god what did she have? A cargo container smuggled up her bum?!? :D Maybe 2 years or something but 20? Smacks of “example” to me.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Most of the worlds Weed laws are stupid and put in place by those making money off it one way or another. 20 years is assanine for weed ,it doesnt matter what country is acting like a D.S. It really shows that the Pricks wanting to make new Laws are doing so with nothing based on facts. Like our Federal weed laws, Pure spin dreamed up by a fanatical police state bent on yielding its power and control. The spin govt feeds us on weed is pure lie. reminds of the war on so called terror but then they leave tthe border wide spankin open....please

[mcadam]

capital punishment, life in prison or 20 years - all ridiculous, horriffic, sentences for smuggling of marijuana... No one, especially not surfers who come there often, can be surprised that this is how they punish all drugsmugglers in indonesia (and thailand, india and I guess most other places in that area)...

Whether or not she is guilty is impossible for anyone to say... though her reaction to the opening of her bag, as described here, would indicate she was very well aware of it's contents.

The real problem is the almost worldwide hostile politics concerning marijuana - it's creating more problems than it's solving...

A

[barneygumble]

capital punishment, life in prison or 20 years - all ridiculous, horriffic, sentences for smuggling of marijuana... No one, especially not surfers who come there often, can be surprised that this is how they punish all drugsmugglers in indonesia (and thailand, india and I guess most other places in that area)...

Whether or not she is guilty is impossible for anyone to say... though her reaction to the opening of her bag, as described here, would indicate she was very well aware of it's contents.

The real problem is the almost worldwide hostile politics concerning marijuana - it's creating more problems than it's solving...

A


Absaloutely, i think 20 years is excessive as well but 4.1kg damn that is whole lot of weed you have those sort of penalties in the us right it is almost worse than the rape and murder of a 15 yr old in the states.

However the law in indonesia dictates these penalties who are we to say they are wrong are we so egotistical to beleive that we are right

[Dont Hurt Me]

True her getting some weed wasnt going to hurt or matter much to anyone, putting her in jail for 20 years for what? another crazy fanatical extremist law. The politics of Drugs is ............crazy as heck. It increases the police state and that is what govt wants.

[johnnyjibbs]

This was sad. I heard people talking about this today while in the shop at the Australian Capitol building in Canberra. It was pretty obvious she was , I think.

[Mr. Anderson]

Wow, that's just not right. It certainly does sound like they're trying to use her as an example - and especially since its going to get more press than most of these cases.

Bleh, I hope they can resolve it so that she doesn't have to spend too much time in jail.

D

[mj_1903]

I personally don't have an opinion but I am going to throw some facts into this thread if I may.

1. The street value of marijuana is much higher in Sydney or Brisbane than it is in Bali. She was planning to be there for a few weeks, smoking 4.1kg in that time period is impossible and selling it is unprofitable. Witness the arrests of the Australians trying to smuggle drugs _out_ of Indonesia recently.

2. The Indonesian legal system took a lot of short cuts that would have assisted the defence if they had done things properly. The package was handled by bare hands, it was torn open, it was not fingerprinted, it was handled by Corby's family at the request of the police, etc.

3. The Australian government was uncooperative for valid reasons but they may have therefore withheld information that could have assisted either side.

4. Baggage handlers have been known to open baggage and place items in it. There was a reported case 4 years ago where a brick of marijuana was found in someone's luggage after arriving in Bali. They, fortunately, were not discovered by authorities.

5. There have been a recent spate of firings towards baggage handlers at Sydney airport because of unscrupulous behaviour.

6. The Australian Police are currently investigating a ring of drug smuggling via the baggage handlers.

7. Many of the Australian people are angry at are not doing themselves a favour by focusing their anger on the Indonesians. I am sure the judges were not impressed.

8. The judges stated before the trial that they needed to make an example of this case to stop drug smuggling.

Enjoy!

[Applespider]

Isn't it Indonesia which has a public holiday in late summer when the President, amongst the other festivities, is allowed to pardon various prisoners?

Since Indonesia has always been seen to be 'tough' in terms on sentences, it may be that they felt they couldn't give a soft verdict when there was more physical evidence against her than for her but she may get one of these pardons in a few months?

One thing I'm surprised by. 4kg is a reasonable weight - particularly on some flights where baggage allowance is only 20kg. Wouldn't you think you'd notice that kind of weight difference in a bag that shouldn't have been all that heavy anyhow?

[skunk]

I personally don't have an opinion but I am going to throw some facts into this thread if I may.

1. The street value of marijuana is much higher in Sydney or Brisbane than it is in Bali. She was planning to be there for a few weeks, smoking 4.1kg in that time period is impossible and selling it is unprofitable. Witness the arrests of the Australians trying to smuggle drugs _out_ of Indonesia recently.My thoughts exactly. The words "coal" and "Newcastle" - not the Australian one - spring to mind. If she was a smuggler, she was terribly ill-informed.

[mj_1903]

My thoughts exactly. The words "coal" and "Newcastle" - not the Australian one - spring to mind. If she was a smuggler, she was terribly ill-informed.

"Coal" and "Newcastle" also works quite well in Australia. :)

[skunk]

"Coal" and "Newcastle" also works quite well in Australia. :)I guess it does! :D

[broken_keyboard]

I think she did it - you can tell from her staring eyes that she is a druggie.

[Xtremehkr]

20 years is excessive, and still won't stop people from doing it.

She is lucky she did not do that in Singapore though.

[sushi]

The trick is to have your bags weighed, and reweighed when you arrive.
It's called traveling light and using carry on luggage vice checked luggage. Experienced travelers do it -- especially when traveling to places that are high risk.

If you find yourself in a situation where you must check a bag, be sure that you use a bag that can really be locked.

Sushi

[sushi]

Whether or not she is guilty is impossible for anyone to say... though her reaction to the opening of her bag, as described here, would indicate she was very well aware of it's contents.
If this is correct, then it would definitely indicate she knew what was in the bag.

Sushi

[Mr. Anderson]

If this is correct, then it would definitely indicate she knew what was in the bag.

Sushi

Well, maybe she had some adult toys in there as well? You never know and if she's lying, then I have to say I feel less sorry for her.

D

[sushi]

Well, maybe she had some adult toys in there as well?
Good point!

However, anyone who travels knows that their bags can be checked. So before you travel, concerning legal but embarrasing items, you have to ask yourself, what would I do if this particular item were found?

Her being surprised, then resisting the customs agents opening up her bag is a strong indicator that she knew the deal.

Then again, we all hear it second/third hand, so what do we know?!

You never know and if she's lying, then I have to say I feel less sorry for her.
True. We will never know for sure.

But if she is lying, I do not feel bad for her at all.

Sushi

[DeSnousa]

While she was hesitant opening the bag, she was extremely emotional during the court proceedings. An innocent victim or an act?

As some one stated early she is smart. Would a intelligent person be that stupid?

Baggage handlers in Australia had been fired the day of the occurring departure?

A Australian prisoner was in her defense team. He was smuggling drugs in other peoples bags as well. Makes you think that it could happen to anyone?

Like i have said numerous times, it is horrific to be sent to jail for 20 years. I know Indonesia needs to set a precedent on the case to scare druggies. But will it deter them away from doing it?

[Inspector Lee]

I have heard rumors that baggage handlers place drugs in tourists luggage to get them through customs.


That is how it works down in Jamaica with the guys pushing the kif. However, there is financial gain in it. For example, dealer approaches tourist and offers some smoke. If tourist obliges, dealer gets paid, tourist takes the goods and goes on his way. Police officer observing the whole thing then waits for dealer to vanish and arrests tourist, hauls him/her to jail until a "fine" is paid. Confiscated drugs are then returned to dealer for another go-round. In this system, the dealer gets the $$$, and the state gets the $$$ and the buyer gets out with a pants-pissing scare.

I don't see the $$$ gain in slipping some goods into somebody's bag here, especially if the weed is cheaper as somebody posted. To me, that angle defies logic.

What would motivate someone who looks reasonably intelligent and well off to do something this dumb?

Sounds like the ultimate cover, but for what?

Most of the worlds Weed laws are stupid and put in place by those making money off it one way or another. 20 years is assanine for weed ,it doesnt matter what country is acting like a D.S. It really shows that the Pricks wanting to make new Laws are doing so with nothing based on facts. Like our Federal weed laws, Pure spin dreamed up by a fanatical police state bent on yielding its power and control. The spin govt feeds us on weed is pure lie. reminds of the war on so called terror but then they leave tthe border wide spankin open....please

Agreed.

True her getting some weed wasnt going to hurt or matter much to anyone, putting her in jail for 20 years for what? another crazy fanatical extremist law. The politics of Drugs is ............crazy as heck. It increases the police state and that is what govt wants.

Agreed.

[Inspector Lee]

While she was hesitant opening the bag, she was extremely emotional during the court proceedings. An innocent victim or an act?

Could've been a trial run. Maybe something bigger is coming down the pipe and this is all smoke - no pun intended.

[andiwm2003]

While she was hesitant opening the bag, she was extremely emotional during the court proceedings. An innocent victim or an act?



well with 20 years of prison at stake everybody would be emotional guilty or not.

the key to me is where did she get the 4kg from? you don't find that on the street. so the prosecution should be able to find a link to the drug scene. if nobody can link her to drug involved people than the case is weak.
aside of that, what about reweighing the luggage as suggested above? if the weight is up she's free. if not then either she did it or something is missing from her luggage. in a good investigation you would ask her what should be in the luggage and then you check if something is missing. you could check how she reacts and if her story makes sense. but i doubt that they did an investigation of that quality.

20 years is though, it basically ends your life.......

[deanbo]

What would happen to a Indonesian tourist if they were caught smuggling that amount of marijuana into Australia?

Would they get 20 years?

I doubt it.

[Dont Hurt Me]

What would happen to a Indonesian tourist if they were caught smuggling that amount of marijuana into Australia?

Would they get 20 years?

I doubt it.There just isnt any reason to have marijuana illegal in the 21st century, plenty of stuff thats legal that is much worse but its all about politics and paid off govt. Politics are pathetic, reminds me of George Bush his war on terror yet this same president refuses to enforce his oath of office on the Mexican border. B.S..........and lies.

[Frisco]

There just isnt any reason to have marijuana illegal in the 21st century, plenty of stuff thats legal that is much worse but its all about politics and paid off govt. Politics are pathetic, reminds me of George Bush his war on terror yet this same president refuses to enforce his oath of office on the Mexican border. B.S..........and lies.

Exactly putting someone in Jail for marijuana is ridiculous. Alcohol is far worse. Did you ever see anyone get into a fight when they were stoned.
Obviously Indonesian drug laws suck, but America isn't much better. American jails are full of drug users. What a waste of tax payer money, but more importantly these people's lives are ruined because they decided to get high one night.

And yes Bush really sucks!

[mj_1903]

I think she did it - you can tell from her staring eyes that she is a druggie.

Staring eyes is also a response to fear and panic.

[Frisco]

I think she did it - you can tell from her staring eyes that she is a druggie.

Let's assume she is a druggie. Who cares? People have been doing drugs since the beginning of humanity. Given the opportunity animals will take drugs.

Such a moralist aren't you!

Go smoke a bone and report back :rolleyes:

[Knoxxus]

What I don't understand is how could anyone think a huge bag of weed like that could make it through customs? I mean, this was a LOT of weed.

I once tried to smuggle a guava fruit out of hawaii and despite my burying the thing they found it instantly. (Yes, I'm a rebel -- fight the power!) :rolleyes:

[Frisco]

What I don't understand is how could anyone think a huge bag of weed like that could make it through customs? I mean, this was a LOT of weed.

I once tried to smuggle a guava fruit out of hawaii and despite my burying the thing they found it instantly. (Yes, I'm a rebel -- fight the power!) :rolleyes:

A Guava! No say it aint so! This type of behavior is not condoned on these forums. You just admitted guilty to a crime.

But seriously as a society we should stop and think what are we doing? Checking people for illegal fruit.

[xsedrinam]

We were in Sydney when the story broke. Lots of sympathetic and concerned people. Nice girl. "First offense" and various kinds of rationale, don't wash with taking breaking international law lightly.
Our son cooperated with the filming of a documentary in conjuction with the U.S. Embassy on "don't be a mula" in Ecuador. While shooting live the customs lines of arriving passengers in Quito Airport, we actually caught on film a smuggler being "caught" with drugs. It wasn't pretty or cute.
This should be a lesson to those who will learn, not only about the severity of other country's judicial systems and disposition inflicted upon offenders who seek to smuggle drugs globally, but is also a lesson on the basic premise. Don't smuggle drugs. The fact that the Corby girl said, "Stop! Don't open that. I have some", did not help her case.
X

[DeSnousa]

Something else i dont get is why would you pay top $$$ for weed in Australia and export to a cheap country to sell at a loss. It usually is the other way around.

[Frisco]

We were in Sydney when the story broke. Lots of sympathetic and concerned people. Nice girl. "First offense" and various kinds of rationale, don't wash with taking breaking international law lightly.
Our son cooperated with the filming of a documentary in conjuction with the U.S. Embassy on "don't be a mula" in Ecuador. While shooting live the customs lines of arriving passengers in Quito Airport, we actually caught on film a smuggler being "caught" with drugs. It wasn't pretty or cute.
This should be a lesson to those who will learn, not only about the severity of other country's judicial systems and disposition inflicted upon offenders who seek to smuggle drugs globally, but is also a lesson on the basic premise. Don't smuggle drugs. The fact that the Corby girl said, "Stop! Don't open that. I have some", did not help her case.
X

These 3rd world countries shouldn't be so judgmental. These countries should "Grow Up"

[Sol]

These people aren't terroists, rapists or murderers, but get treated as such anyway.

You can't have a War On Drugs without casualties. Bali failed in the War On Terror by failing to bring those responsible for a nightclub bomb to justice in its courts. Islamic extremists got the kid-glove treatment in courts and jails but Australian tourists with drugs are fair game. Wow, that sounds like a good place for a holiday.

The most disapointing thing about this affair is that the Australian Government did not do enough for another one of its citizens in trouble abroad. I think my Prime Minister looks more and more incompetent every time a David Hicks or Schapelle Corby happens.

[Duff-Man]

Duff-Man says...I don't that much about this particular case as it is not "big" news here (although it did make the Canadian websites and brief mention on the newscasts) but in general I would say - if she is innocent and *reasonable* doubt can be shown (I am not talking about silly lawyer technicalities) then she should be set free. If however she was caught with the goods - even though I am not a proponent of tough pot laws - then she should do the time. Surely (if guilty) she knew the penalties if she was caught and given that she's lucky she didn't get worse. Which brings up another controversial issue, (which if this thread wasn't in the political forum it probably will be soon...) - if it had been a guy would he have gotten the same sentence given their laws, or the same media attention...oh yeah!

[risc]

The most disapointing thing about this affair is that the Australian Government did not do enough for another one of its citizens in trouble abroad.

The federal government arranged 2 QCs to help out with the case months ago, her legal team never returned any of their calls, there isn't much else the government can do. Especially in a country where law works on the premise of guilty until proven innocent!

Personally I don't know if she's innocent or guilty, but lets not forget the dozens of other Australians in jails all over Asia for drug related offenses.

[mkrishnan]

Personally I don't know if she's innocent or guilty, but lets not forget the dozens of other Australians in jails all over Asia for drug related offenses.

Is this really such a widespread problem?

[solvs]

Surely (if guilty) she knew the penalties if she was caught and given that she's lucky she didn't get worse.
Were this a fair world, the punishment would fit the crime. This will hurt the country though in the long run. Tourism is going to drop significantly with people afraid something like this is going to happen to them, let alone the terrorist threat thatwe're all still terrified of. And their attempt to make an example of this person (innocent or not) is just going to blow up in their face as this will be what their country is currently most known for. As people vote with their dollars, their economy will sufer and no other government will need to bother intervening (as well, I'm kinda torn if they should, but that's what diplomacy is supposed to be for).

It's one thing when some spolied kid gets a wack on his butt for vandalising property, but 20 years being the lesser sentence for having some pot? That's pretty extreme. Her home land, and the rest of the free world, should be bitching about it. A fine, or even a couple of years, I could see. But this is only going to hurt everybody.

[mkrishnan]

It's one thing when some spolied kid gets a wack on his butt for vandalising property, but 20 years being the lesser sentence for having some pot? That's pretty extreme. Her home land, and the rest of the free world, should be bitching about it. A fine, or even a couple of years, I could see. But this is only going to hurt everybody.

4 kg of pot is not anywhere in the realm of personal use. Even if this were a legal drug in question, she would not be allowed to move it in that kind of quantity across international borders. If there're actual reasons to believe she is the victim of a smuggling ring, of which she is not part, that's an entirely different matter, but even if pot were legalized, part of the point of legalizing it would be to make sure random women weren't coming into your country with 4 kg of it hidden in their suitcases.

BTW...anyone notice there are two threads on this same topic?

[Sol]

Personally I don't know if she's innocent or guilty, but lets not forget the dozens of other Australians in jails all over Asia for drug related offenses.

After the Bali bombing trials the Bali legal system does not have much credibility in Australia. Corby had no hope of a fair trial and judging from her judge's record, neither did anyone before her. A few weeks ago an Australian living there was arrested for having a miniscule amount of hash in his house; before him there were a group attempting to smuggle heroin out. I doubt they will get a fair trial either.

In this Australian's mind, none of these people have done anything that deserves twenty years or execution. If an Australian sheila was arrested and imprisoned for sunbathing in Saudi Arabia I would feel the same way.

[broken_keyboard]

Let's assume she is a druggie. Who cares? People have been doing drugs since the beginning of humanity. Given the opportunity animals will take drugs.

Such a moralist aren't you!

I actually don't think drugs should be illegal, it's a personal choice. Just don't give them to kids (like a lot of things).

I was just saying she looks like she did it.

[sourcemonkey]

dealing with this in strictly legal terms, that is - without allowing emotion to enter into the equation - corby received a light sentence under indonesian law. the death penalty was an option for the judges. critically, the evidence against corby was damning to the extent that she would be found guilty of possession & importing in any court of law (infact the indonesians went so far as to allow her defence to submit evidence and testimony that would not be allowed in an australian court of law).

there had been an article on a popular news show called 'paul holmes' (a shocking show - beyond words) discussing the corby case. one viewer texted in saying:

"this is an outrage! we should think twice about offering them [the indonesians] help [after the tsunami disaster] if this is the thanks we get"

the world is a sick place. :mad: :confused: :(

[sourcemonkey]

I was just saying she looks like she did it.

I though you were joking when you said that originally!? you are joking.... right? :confused:

[broken_keyboard]

I though you were joking when you said that originally!? you are joking.... right? :confused:

No, she looks like a druggie. It's the glassy stare, but also her mannerisms. Alcoholics are pretty obvious too.

[Bonch]

I actually don't think drugs should be illegal, it's a personal choice. Just don't give them to kids (like a lot of things).

I see your point and know you mean well, but let me tell you that drugs are not cool. The meth epidemic is just that -- an epidemic. The business behind me has been broken into three times this year by meth heads, who just kick in the window and grab what they can to hock and get a quick fix. Alarm systems do nothing. Drugs are a huge problem to us small business owners. Most theft in this country is related to meth in one way or another.

[skunk]

I see your point and know you mean well, but let me tell you that drugs are not cool.Meaningless generalization.
Most theft in this country is related to meth in one way or another.Most theft in your country is carried out by greedy corporations and bent politicians.

[mj_1903]

No, she looks like a druggie. It's the glassy stare, but also her mannerisms. Alcoholics are pretty obvious too.

She has been in gaol (jail) for months, any drugs she had in her system would have vanished and her behaviour has probably changed quite dramatically from normal.

I am wondering why she was carrying a previously unopened 4.1kg bag anyway. If she was using it as a recreational drug then surely she would have opened it previously and it would have had some shoddy reseals down to it.

Eh, who knows, only she really does.

This isn't directed at anyone but the brain is hardwired to make judgements on people's faces (part of our defence mechanism). Using photos as a judgement of someone is always a bad idea because your experiences are going quickly cause you to stereotype the person and research shows that you can only really be right in 50% of cases at maximum. Sorry, that was just on my mind after reading some psych papers.

[skunk]

This isn't directed at anyone but the brain is hardwired to make judgements on people's faces (part of our defence mechanism). Using photos as a judgement of someone is always a bad idea because your experiences are going quickly cause you to stereotype the person and research shows that you can only really be right in 50% of cases at maximum. Sorry, that was just on my mind after reading some psych papers.Judging by appearances has always been a lousy idea anyway.

[risc]

No, she looks like a druggie. It's the glassy stare, but also her mannerisms. Alcoholics are pretty obvious too.

Yeah and it's not at all possible it may have something to do with the fact she has been locked up in a foreign country since October 2004?

Jesus you have to be kidding right?

[asqy]

The last few days hve been pretty sickening.

Listening to people suggest that they should give back the billion we donated to the tsunami

Like what kind of reasoning is that?

Because we give a country aid are citizens are somehow exempt from their law? or deserve easier treatment?

:rolleyes:

Talk about Aussie centrism. Not to mention that Australia doesnt give a **** about the Asian/Australia people who are on death row for similar offences. I doubt many Australians realise that there are 15 Australians in gaol in Asian for similar crimes.

To the indonesians this is nothing more than another drugs case.

She is 'pretty' (according to some) and cries alot in court.

It makes me sick that peoples blind patriotism gets in the way. When you are in another nation you are subject to their laws.

Yes we all know that asian punishes drugs importers harshly...and 20 years is harsh.

But I cant stand people ranting on about how she is so OBVIOUSLY guilty. Based on what? An assertion that she obviously innocent is about as rational as me asserting that she obviously guilty. How would I know?

[Bonch]

Most theft in your country is carried out by greedy corporations and bent politicians.

What would you know about it? Do you own a small business over here? Because you cannot relate unless you do.

[skunk]

What would you know about it? Do you own a small business over here? Because you cannot relate unless you do.Right.

[mj_1903]

The last few days have been pretty sickening.

Listening to people suggest that they should give back the billion we donated to the tsunami

Like what kind of reasoning is that?

Because we give a country aid are citizens are somehow exempt from their law? or deserve easier treatment?

The two cases are completely separate. One was giving to help, another was wrongfully (or potentially) accused but found guilty nonetheless. These people disgust me and frankly they are a disgrace to the human race. Schapelle Corby is not worth more to this world than the billions we gave to Indonesia to save lives and rebuild shattered cities.

[mj_1903]

What would you know about it? Do you own a small business over here? Because you cannot relate unless you do.

I do and I agree that he is correct. It is after all human nature to be greedy and guess who has the power in capitalist states? Big business.

Just look who got your liar of a president into power, the big businesses who wanted more money spent on the military so they could continue to fill their overflowing coffers.

[broken_keyboard]

I see your point and know you mean well, but let me tell you that drugs are not cool. The meth epidemic is just that -- an epidemic. The business behind me has been broken into three times this year by meth heads, who just kick in the window and grab what they can to hock and get a quick fix. Alarm systems do nothing. Drugs are a huge problem to us small business owners. Most theft in this country is related to meth in one way or another.

I think if someone steals something or breaks in to someone else's business, that's digusting, and they should be prosecuted for it. But they should be prosecuted for the stealing, not for the drugs. And someone who steals and isn't high should get the same punishment.

I don't think it's fair to make a package deal out of stealing and drugs, because I'm sure there are people who get high without stealing, and people who steal without being high.

[Sol]

IJust look who got your liar of a president into power, the big businesses who wanted more money spent on the military so they could continue to fill their overflowing coffers.

I am no Bush supporter but I find statements like that misleading. George Bush and Al Gore had more or less the same support from Big Business because they both stood for the same centrist-capitalist ideals that all major party nominees have stood for in my twenty-nine year life-time. The people who voted for George Bush in 2000 responded to his message of the 'Compasionate-Conservative', whatever that meant. In regards to The War Machine, George Bush was saying that Saddam Hussein was not a threat, he had no weapons and was not worth mentioning. This, and his conservatism gave him the support of American Muslims, amongst others.

[deanbo]

There just isnt any reason to have marijuana illegal in the 21st century, plenty of stuff thats legal that is much worse but its all about politics and paid off govt. Politics are pathetic, reminds me of George Bush his war on terror yet this same president refuses to enforce his oath of office on the Mexican border. B.S..........and lies.

Don't quite know if I would go that far, (just look at Amsterdam), but I believe their is a serious issue of human rights here.

Marijuana is a plant that grows in the dirt. And the issue of alcohol, well I agree with the previous poster, when was the last time you saw someone stoned start a fight?

Personally I'm going out of the way to boycott Indonesia. No travelling there, no buying their products etc etc.

Seriously, if you want to make this country/government respect your rights, hit them where it hurts. In the wallet!

[deanbo]

Were this a fair world, the punishment would fit the crime. This will hurt the country though in the long run. Tourism is going to drop significantly with people afraid something like this is going to happen to them, let alone the terrorist threat thatwe're all still terrified of. And their attempt to make an example of this person (innocent or not) is just going to blow up in their face as this will be what their country is currently most known for. As people vote with their dollars, their economy will sufer and no other government will need to bother intervening (as well, I'm kinda torn if they should, but that's what diplomacy is supposed to be for).

It's one thing when some spolied kid gets a wack on his butt for vandalising property, but 20 years being the lesser sentence for having some pot? That's pretty extreme. Her home land, and the rest of the free world, should be bitching about it. A fine, or even a couple of years, I could see. But this is only going to hurt everybody.

This is exactly what I see happening to this country. You may call this incident isolated, but I seriously wondering if you need to smuggle drugs into Indonesia to be convicted of drug smuggling. Especially after some of the stories I have read/heard first hand.

Regardless, I want to know that if I travel to this country, I will be treated fairly if I ever found myself in the same situation.

[Lacero]

I agree with everyone the sentence was way too excessive. I've carried over 20 lbs of marijuana in the back of my trunk transporting it, but never been caught. I mean, comon, it's a plant made by God.

I think a more appropriate sentence would be to ban her from ever entering Indonesia again. If she is found re-entering, then she can be held in prison for a life-term.

These sort of international transgressions are pretty dicey. As for people who express outrage for supporting Indonesia during the tsunami, get real. Don't ever think giving support means favors you can cash in at a later time. That's not the true spirit of giving.

[mad jew]

As for people who express outrage for supporting Indonesia during the tsunami, get real. Don't ever think giving support means favors you can cash in at a later time. That's not the true spirit of giving.


You're missing the point. We give aid, they decide to make an example of one of our citizens. Although they're not directly related and generally, we would never expect aid back in return, the aid was nevertheless a friendly gesture and it's not unreasonable to expect friendliness in return. This whole law suit was meant to 'set an example' to the rest of us Australians which is in my opinion the worst possible way of trying to stop drug trafficking.

[Lacero]

You're missing the point. We give aid, they decide to make an example of one of our citizens.I'm not missing any point. You don't go trampling on other nation's law because it doesn't suit us. If you set foot in another country, you're expected to abide by their laws and customs.

[mad jew]

I'm not missing any point. You don't go trampling on other nation's law because it doesn't suit us. If you set foot in another country, you're expected to abide by their laws and customs.


But as neighbours, there's an unwritten law that we treat each other's beliefs/laws etc. with respect. This case has been the single lamest attempt at up-keeping any sort of law, Indonesian, Australian or whatever.

The magnitude of the sentence is not the problem, albeit it's unfair in Australian terms, but rather the inability of the Indonesian justice system to provide Corby with a fair trial.

[Sol]

The magnitude of the sentence is not the problem, albeit it's unfair in Australian terms, but rather the inability of the Indonesian justice system to provide Corby with a fair trial.

To anyone outside of Indonesia and Australia this might look like a case of hypocrisy and I respect this view. Inside these two countries we have a different context for this mess. In 2002 a bomb went of in a Bali nightclub which was filled with tourists, most of them Australian.

The people responsible were tried in Indonesian courts and got off lightly. God forbid that a Muslim nation would bring to justice martyrs and those who supported them. Despite this, Australia did not think twice before giving aid to the Tsunami victims. We are good-willed people. Good intentioned for sure.

Now we are supposed to be grateful for the leniency Indonesia showed with a twenty year sentence? I say it exposes how hypocritical the Indonesian law is. What next, women arrested for not being escorted by a male relative? Men fined for not having facial hair? Al-Qaeda welcomed with open arms?

Bali is an island that survives on tourism and this case proved that voices calling for change are acting to this end. This suits Australians fine. We do not need to holiday there or to purchase the products made there. In fact, we do not have to release Indonesian fishermen from our detention centers. Indonesia can play these games if it wants to, but ultimately the price their people will pay for it will cost it much more than our goodwill.

[mad jew]

Well put Sol.

It's very myopic of Indonesia to do this. Apart from Corby's misfortune, the real losers will be the poor Indonesians (particularly those in Bali) who make their livings from Australian tourism which will no doubt fall through the floor.

[asqy]

I agree with everyone the sentence was way too excessive. I've carried over 20 lbs of marijuana in the back of my trunk transporting it, but never been caught. I mean, comon, it's a plant made by God.

I think a more appropriate sentence would be to ban her from ever entering Indonesia again. If she is found re-entering, then she can be held in prison for a life-term.

australians dont do that for people who are caught in Australia.

We lock up plenty of non citizens.

At this point it would be wise to observe that the max penalty for the importation of narcotics of a trafficable amount is LIFE in Australia. (See the customs act)

For hash its 10 years.

Also in Australia we have deeming laws. whereby if you are found in possession it is deemed to be yours.

These sort of international transgressions are pretty dicey. As for people who express outrage for supporting Indonesia during the tsunami, get real. Don't ever think giving support means favors you can cash in at a later time. That's not the true spirit of giving.


the issue is that because we gave them aid somehow our citizens demand easier treatment undfer their laws?

WTF?

You know oh we were generous to you so you should cut us some slack.

Thats called corruption or double standards..and it makes be bloody sick.

[asqy]

To anyone outside of Indonesia and Australia this might look like a case of hypocrisy and I respect this view. Inside these two countries we have a different context for this mess. In 2002 a bomb went of in a Bali nightclub which was filled with tourists, most of them Australian.

The people responsible were tried in Indonesian courts and got off lightly. God forbid that a Muslim nation would bring to justice martyrs and those who supported them. Despite this, Australia did not think twice before giving aid to the Tsunami victims. We are good-willed people. Good intentioned for sure.

I love how the media manipulates perfectly reasonable people. Plays on theeir fears of foreign. Anything in order to sell papers.

Bakir got two years.

The other three got the death penalty.

I really wish the daily telegrahp would stop being selective. They certainty didnt publish that.

It is sad that reasonable people are misled by this.

[Lacero]

Well put Sol.Well put? Unless Sol was at both hearings where they were tried and the evidence presented, he wouldn't be so quick to come to conclusions.

[Sol]

Bakir got two years.

The other three got the death penalty.

Those other three were puppets and their fate was sealed when they took their orders. I hold the people who mastermind these crimes responsible.

[asqy]

Those other three were puppets and their fate was sealed when they took their orders. I hold the people who mastermind these crimes responsible.


sooooo...they shouldnt be held to account? because they were not the masterminds? They were merely puppets?

hmmm? You mean they got it wrong and sent innocent people to their death?

does that mean they should have been let go since the mastermind is responsible?

You surely cannot assert that justice was not done in the circumstances.

Surely you cannot assert that the indo justice system is easy on martys?

---------------

I mean do you not care about the other 15 aussies in Asian gaols on similar crimes?

Why is Corby so special?

[Sol]

When I wrote "their fate was sealed" I meant they were dead men walking. The puppets get what is coming to them, as you can see with the three that got the death sentence and anybody who follows in their footsteps. The masterminds deserve this fate just as much, if not more. Of course that is only my opinion and you or the judges of Indonesia do not have to agree with it.

[solvs]

Why is Corby so special?
Because we know about her. If we knew about the others, we'd be equally upset. As I said, if it were me, I'd be upset (not that I would have pot on me, and lets face it, she probably did). I'm not saying anyone should go and invade their country, or take back their donations (the 2 things are unrelated, and we shouldn't want the citizens to suffer for the mistakes of their government - we in the US and UK should know that better than anyone). But people are going to be upset, as well they should be, and reconsider future visits and future help. Which is unfortunate, but what's going to happen. We helped them despite everything because it was the right thing to do. It's sad that because of this, their citizenry may suffer.

I never heard of this women before this, but despite her crime, I find myself feeling badly for her. She made a stupid mistake (probably), and should have known better while visiting another country, but the puinshment is a bit harsh. How would we feel if she were put to death? Even if not, how would you feel if she was someone you knew? Or if it was you?

[sourcemonkey]

When I wrote "their fate was sealed" I meant they were dead men walking. The puppets get what is coming to them, as you can see with the three that got the death sentence and anybody who follows in their footsteps. The masterminds deserve this fate just as much, if not more. Of course that is only my opinion and you or the judges of Indonesia do not have to agree with it.

the pathetic thing is, here, that your thinking seems to be based purely on speculation and heresay. you have no respect for the principle of law which is a basis for the 'civilised society' that you are no doubt so proud of. law is based on evidence and what evidence was there that leads you to believe that corby was innocent? anything? oh of course there was the testimony from a convicted criminal that said that a conversation had been overheard about the case but no one could be named for fear of reprisals. or maybe it's because she "looks innocent".

not only that but it is the failing of the australian system that led to her having the drugs (if she is innocent) so perhaps you can get off your high anglo saxon horse of superiority.

as someone has pointed out the bali bombers got life from the same judge who convicted corby and at the time (some of you have short memories) the speed and judgement in the case was praised by the australians. the 'ringleader' got a light sentence due to lack of evidence tying him to the crime.

as for people complaning that corby should get special treatment because the australians gave aid to the hundreds of thousands of people decimated by the tsunami i'm sorry, no intelligent human being could say that. period. really what you're saying is that australians should be allowed to break the law in foreign countries because you gave aid after a disaster. the popularity of this sentiment in australia and new zealand shows that at the core the idea of 'us' and 'them' is still at the centre of your thinking. i'm sorry, but white christians are also subject to the law. this kind of attitude reminds me of the shoah of the nazis of the 30s and 40s. of course since england was instrumental in giving israel to the jewish people you should argue that the british should be exempt from israeli law.

i'm really disappointed with the lack of intelligence being paraded by some in this thread. :mad:

[mj_1903]

I am no Bush supporter but I find statements like that misleading. George Bush and Al Gore had more or less the same support from Big Business because they both stood for the same centrist-capitalist ideals that all major party nominees have stood for in my twenty-nine year life-time. The people who voted for George Bush in 2000 responded to his message of the 'Compasionate-Conservative', whatever that meant. In regards to The War Machine, George Bush was saying that Saddam Hussein was not a threat, he had no weapons and was not worth mentioning. This, and his conservatism gave him the support of American Muslims, amongst others.

But just look at the names that backed Bush, they are the militaristic companies or companies needing to sustain a monopoly. Companies that did not have an agenda to push did not generally give him money.

[mj_1903]

I love how the media manipulates perfectly reasonable people. Plays on theeir fears of foreign. Anything in order to sell papers.

Bakir got two years.

The other three got the death penalty.

I really wish the daily telegrahp would stop being selective. They certainty didnt publish that.

It is sad that reasonable people are misled by this.

I like to think that I am informed about the world but I didn't know this. I simply assumed that they hadn't captured anyone else. Do you have some links? (just for reading purpose, I believe you). :)

[asqy]

I like to think that I am informed about the world but I didn't know this. I simply assumed that they hadn't captured anyone else. Do you have some links? (just for reading purpose, I believe you). :)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Opinion/Fact-and-fiction/2005/05/26/1116950819084.html

When Bali bombers Amrozi, Muhklas and Imam Samudra were sentenced to death by the same court that is trying Corby, this was widely celebrated here, with some Australians offering to pull the trigger or burn them alive, and our Government indicating that execution was appropriate. In light of this, how can our Government now claim that death is a barbaric punishment, as popular opinion has it, if it is imposed on Corby or, as is more likely, the Bali nine?

[Agathon]

Those barbarous Indonesians!!! What kind of country gives sentences like that for petty crimes!?!?!

http://www.wral.com/news/4541334/detail.html

;)

[asqy]

I never heard of this women before this, but despite her crime, I find myself feeling badly for her. She made a stupid mistake (probably), and should have known better while visiting another country, but the puinshment is a bit harsh. How would we feel if she were put to death? Even if not, how would you feel if she was someone you knew? Or if it was you?

People tend not to feel for the non Australians who import drugs to Australia...who we proceed to lock up for somewhere between 10 and life...

Australians also seem to not care about the 'non white' Australians who are in worse situations in Asian. Some on death Row. Nor do they are about the 16 year old who in Thailand. Why? I assume because he is not a 'White' Australian. He aint female and he cant cry as well as Corby.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15429834%5E2702,00.html

46 other Australians that no one seems to care about. It just shows how easily Australia is manipulated by the media. Total and utter control.

The attitude of the average Australian stinks so badly of double standards and cultural and racial superiorty. People who suggest that we Boycott Bali or ask for the donations back should take a look at themselves. Nothing could be more insulting to a fellow Australia, or as stupid to hold that view. The notion that Australian citizens are exempt because we gave a country aid is such a base and immoral argument that it makes me sick.

I wonder sometimes whether the whole of Australia has an engrained sense of white Australian superiority (I'm not racist but [insert racist comment]) or simply people are controlled by commercial media that has little interest in balanced reporting and more interest in controversy because it makes money.

[Abstract]

There just isnt any reason to have marijuana illegal in the 21st century, plenty of stuff thats legal that is much worse but its all about politics and paid off govt. Politics are pathetic, reminds me of George Bush his war on terror yet this same president refuses to enforce his oath of office on the Mexican border. B.S..........and lies.

Yes, but rules are rules, and she probably broke them. Whether you agree with them isn't the issue. If you don't agree with the law, that's a separate fight to have them changed. But knowing the law, and breaking them, and then getting caught for breaking them has nothing to do with which laws are stupid. It does....but its a different issue.

Actually, not too sure about whether she's guilty or not, but what I know is that her lawyer did everything wrong, and she even asked for a pardon from the President, which in Indonesia, is an automatic admission of guilt. You only ask if you're guilty, and you usually ask after the verdict, or very close to when the verdict is given. She asked for it in the middle of the trial, and her lawyer didn't advise her against it. WTF? :confused:

So:
- Asked for a pardon waaaay too early.
- Didn't ask for her bags to be fingerprinted
- Entire case based on heresy
- It was her lawyer's first drug case, and she became her lawyer because it was late on Friday and she needed a lawyer and couldn't wait until Monday. Also, no other lawyers were free, but it still would have been advisable to live without a lawyer for a few days. That's just what I heard. :p

So I'd say she's lucky to get life. Her entire case was heresy and there was no proof of any kind. They interviewed a baggage handler manager, but so what? She had no case, and if she was caught at Sydney Airport, she would have gotten life anyway.

[deanbo]

not only that but it is the failing of the australian system that led to her having the drugs (if she is innocent) so perhaps you can get off your high anglo saxon horse of superiority.
:mad:

Man, I have heard some ignorant crap in my time, but this pretty much takes the cake.

Where would Bali/Indonesia be now if it wasn't for the tens of thousands of Australian and New Zealand tourists that have spent their money in this country?

Secondly what would happen to a Balinese tourist for the same crime in our country. Would we try and kill their citizens?

No doubt a foreign countries laws need to be respected, and no doubt foreign countries need to respect the citizens of other countries.

You might as well say, yes I'll help your country and in return you can try and execute one of our citizens.

[asqy]

Man, I have heard some ignorant crap in my time, but this pretty much takes the cake.

Where would Bali/Indonesia be now if it wasn't for the tens of thousands of Australian and New Zealand tourists that have spent their money in this country?

Does that make any difference?

Does that mean laws are do not apply?

...because Australia does so and so for so and so a country does not mean that our citizens are exempt from their laws.

Just because we have tourists go there who spend money doesnt mean that our citizens can expect better treatment under their laws.

Certainly Australian laws do not work that way. Australian laws do not apply less to Americans than to Poms to New Zealanders.

To do so would be double standards. Not to mention destruction of equality before the law.

You know we help you and pay you therefore we expect easier treatment under your laws.

Secondly what would happen to a Balinese tourist for the same crime in our country. Would we try and kill their citizens?

If a Indonesian came to Australia and was found guilty of importattion of a trafficable amount of hash he or she would be facing a max of 10 years.

Any other narocotics and it would be life max.

Interesting that doesnt matter. Because she is in their country. Their laws apply.

[deanbo]

Does that make any difference?

Does that mean laws are do not apply?

...because Australia does so and so for so and so a country does not mean that our citizens are exempt from their laws.



Strangely enough, I do not recall at any time saying this.

But do you bite the hand that feeds you? It all comes down to one thing. Respect.

Is seeking the execution of a Australian citizen respectful to the country that not supports Bali, but would give a maximum of 10 years for the same offence for one of their own respectful?.

It was approximately 12 pounds of dope, not small, but not worthy of 20 years.

[solvs]

and more interest in controversy because it makes money.
Bingo.

For the record, I feel bad for the rest of those people as well. And anyone who gets caught up in the system here too. Sometimes the system fails, and it is unfortunate. But the worst part is that this seems to happen quite often, and the gov there didn't seem to think anyone would care. That's the sad part, that this is simply business as usual.

Just don't let it affect your feelings toward the Tsunami victims. Even the ones wearing Bin Laden t-shirts. The good guys don't help for what they get in return, they help because it's the right thing to do.

[skunk]

But do you bite the hand that feeds you?Your espousal of the White Man's Burden is quaint but sickening.
It all comes down to one thing. Respect.For what? It's got f-all to do with respect. People who demand respect don't deserve it.

[skunk]

Just don't let it affect your feelings toward the Tsunami victims. Even the ones wearing Bin Laden t-shirts. The good guys don't help for what they get in return, they help because it's the right thing to do.In other words, it makes them feel better. Better than others. Deserving of "respect".

[sushi]

I agree with everyone the sentence was way too excessive. I've carried over 20 lbs of marijuana in the back of my trunk transporting it, but never been caught. I mean, comon, it's a plant made by God.
And if you get caught, and have to pay the piper, don't expect any sympathy here.

Sushi

[sourcemonkey]

But do you bite the hand that feeds you? It all comes down to one thing. Respect.

Is seeking the execution of a Australian citizen respectful to the country that not supports Bali, but would give a maximum of 10 years for the same offence for one of their own respectful?.

Hegemonia Australis! All hail Australia the great provider. India and all nations of southeast Asia bow down and be humbled by the unbridaled beneficence of the anglo-saxons that have brought greatness to our formerly murky asian waters! we must immediately change our laws to fall in line with yours and offer complete immunity to any whites that commit crimes in our countries.

what gives you the right to decide the laws of another country? is it the case that because you gave aid after a natural disaster, someone who is found guilty in a case where a guilty verdict was unavoidable is to have her convition overturned? this is not law my friend.

out of interest, if you saw someone hit by a car and went to help them, what would you expect in return from them?

It was approximately 12 pounds of dope, not small, but not worthy of 20 years.

please go to your local university and track down a professor of law. ask him/her whether this was a lenient sentence for a prima facie case of possession & trafficking in indonesia.

[Mac Kiwi]

.

[mad jew]

sourcemonkey, I think this has more to do with the fact an example was made of Corby and she wasn't allowed a fair trial as opposed to any discriminatory bigotry on either country's behalf.

A large proportion of the world, and admittedly it's mainly the self-proclaimed developed nations that have spoken out, agree that the Indonesian justice system has handled this case in a very incompetent way. I'm genuinely happy for you if you think the system has been and is generally fair but judging by many of the comments in this thread, you're most likely in the minority.

[asqy]

------------

[skunk]

Hegemonia Australis! All hail Australia the great provider. India and all nations of southeast Asia bow down and be humbled by the unbridaled beneficence of the anglo-saxons that have brought greatness to our formerly murky asian waters! we must immediately change our laws to fall in line with yours and offer complete immunity to any whites that commit crimes in our countries.Nicely put! :D

what gives you the right to decide the laws of another country?Hmmm. Glass Houses.... :rolleyes:

[asqy]

sourcemonkey, I think this has more to do with the fact an example was made of Corby and she wasn't allowed a fair trial as opposed to any discriminatory bigotry on either country's behalf.

How was Indonesia discriminatory? It applies the laws to all those who break the laws in its nation. Just like we do.

An example was made of her? Um? What? If they wanted to make an example of her they would have executed her. Her penalty is historically light. the judge made it clear that it was just another drugs case. He mentioned no where that he wanted to make an example of her.

I believe the only bigotory is being practiced by numbskulled Australians who think the world revolves around them and therefore the laws of another nation do not apply because

1. We donated money to them and therefore our citizens deserve to be let off or easier sentences.

2. the inodnesian justice system sucks > therefore she is as innocent as hell (great argument that one)

No Fair trial? Justify? She got a fair trial according to the laws of Indonesia. The country she happened to be in. Just like when an Indonesian imports drugs into Australia. He doesn't have indo law applied to him. He gets Australian law applied to him.

Where are all these claims coming from? Has Channel 9 got to you? Maybe the daily telegraph?

But I'm really shocked the apparent lack reason employed by grown adults who cannot support their own opinions and think past their narrow conceptions of the world that colour their PRESUMPTIONS about the guilt of a person who they know nothing about...and about a case they know little about...other than what COMMERCIAL MEDIA has told them...which as shown in this thread is one sided and created so as to create a media/emotive storm based on pulling the emotion strings of people who really do think that because she is Australian, white/female she is being unjustly treated...ie why people dont give a **** about other people in the region. Why? Because the media hasnt told them or they are racially prejudiced and dont care about asian Australians.

A large proportion of the world, and admittedly it's mainly the self-proclaimed developed nations that have spoken out, agree that the Indonesian justice system has handled this case in a very incompetent way. I'm genuinely happy for you if you think the system has been and is generally fair but judging by many of the comments in this thread, you're most likely in the minority.

Who what where?

Please link me...or please provide some basis for your claims. At the moment you are postulating from who knows where.

A large proportion of the world? A large proportion of the world wouldnt even know this occured. Please find me a UK link or whatever showing how this is big news all around the world!

Just ANOTHER drugs case in Indonesia. One of many and for the Indonesians it is exceptional because of the sentence being light based on precedent.

And looking at the comments in this thread it never ceases to amaze me that there is no shortage of morons in this world. People who could not justify their opinion even if given the chance to.

I mean. When asked to justify their opiniions you are met with 'Respect my opinion blah blah blah.

Can someone please tell me why Corby is as innocent as hell? I'm not suggesting she is guilty or innocent. Because I dont know.

[mad jew]

Okay asqy, first of all, I'm not big on the whole aggressive arguing thing. I prefer to debate with a level head. Let's all just sit down, breathe in, breathe out, smoke some evidence (joke ;) ).

The Indonesian justice system was discriminatory in this case because they stated before the case got fully underway that they would make an example of Corby. In most people's eyes, that's a pretty good indication that the system's not quite working properly and that the process is unfair.

I have no problem with how the Indonesian justice system normally works (although I've heard it's pretty corrupt but that's both here-say and relatively unrelated). I have no problem with the harsh penalties that the Indonesians hand down to drug traffickers. I would have no problem with this case if:

All of the evidence had been seen/heard at the trial, not just a carefully-picked selection.
One of the judges hadn't said he would "make an example of Corby."
The court had given Corby the benefit of the doubt because nobody could possibly be stupid enough to carry around that much marijuana without expecting to get caught.


Just to establish something, I don't think Australians should be given leniency because of the amount of aid given. The issue of the aid Australia has given is now a political one in that in terms of one nation's gesture of generosity has been met with a gesture of injustice and, for want of a better word, disrespect. Also, I don't think anyone thinks the argument "Indonesian justice system is bad so she is innocent" holds but that doesn't necessarily mean that both statements aren't true. I firmly believe the second part at least - I really think she's innocent. If the Indonesian justice system had allowed her a fair trial, we might know the true answer to this.

One final thing, I really recommend that you don't make negative generalisations about the other members of the community because it really won't win them over to your line of thinking.

It's pretty late over here at the moment so there may be more issues but none spring to mind. I hope this post kind of makes sense because my head still hurts from last night. Sorry. :(

[sourcemonkey]

Okay asqy, first of all, I'm not big on the whole aggressive arguing thing. I prefer to debate with a level head. Let's all just sit down, breathe in, breathe out, smoke some evidence (joke ;) ).

The Indonesian justice system was discriminatory in this case because they stated before the case got fully underway that they would make an example of Corby. In most people's eyes, that's a pretty good indication that the system's not quite working properly and that the process is unfair.

I have no problem with how the Indonesian justice system normally works (although I've heard it's pretty corrupt but that's both here-say and relatively unrelated). I have no problem with the harsh penalties that the Indonesians hand down to drug traffickers. I would have no problem with this case if:

All of the evidence had been seen/heard at the trial, not just a carefully-picked selection.
One of the judges hadn't said he would "make an example of Corby."
The court had given Corby the benefit of the doubt because nobody could possibly be stupid enough to carry around that much marijuana without expecting to get caught.


Just to establish something, I don't think Australians should be given leniency because of the amount of aid given. The issue of the aid Australia has given is now a political one in that in terms of one nation's gesture of generosity has been met with a gesture of injustice and, for want of a better word, disrespect. Also, I don't think anyone thinks the argument "Indonesian justice system is bad so she is innocent" holds but that doesn't necessarily mean that both statements aren't true. I firmly believe the second part at least - I really think she's innocent. If the Indonesian justice system had allowed her a fair trial, we might know the true answer to this.

One final thing, I really recommend that you don't make negative generalisations about the other members of the community because it really won't win them over to your line of thinking.

It's pretty late over here at the moment so there may be more issues but none spring to mind. I hope this post kind of makes sense because my head still hurts from last night. Sorry. :(

MJ, i respect what you have to say. this is a highly emotive issue though so don't get too upset with members losing it a bit here (to be honest i'm really angry and losing my temper a bit). ;)

the thing that's 'shaking my tree' here is the implicit racism that's involved in alot of whats been said about the case.

to try to answer your points:

1) All the evidence had been heard in the trial. even evidence that would not be admitted in Australian law was heard. for example, the testimony of a convicted fellon was allowed to be heard, this evidence was, however, inadmissable. he said he overheard someone talking about the case and laughing that she had been a victim of a trans-national smuggling operation. if he had given names then this evidence could have been explored further, however, on its own it is simply heresay. not only that, but the australian government failed to provide any substantiation that this was going on. the defence failed to produce any further witnesses to testify this assertion. therefore, this line of argument cannot (sadly) hold any weight. an allied line of defence, here, was the fact that the plastic bag was not fingerprinted. this could conceivably have turned up fingerprints of a third party that may well have been traced to a baggage handler. this was an approach that should imo have been the central plank of the defence case. however, this was not fully argued by the defence and could not, on its own amount to an aquittal. the defence offered absolutely no other evidence to support her defence. this is a prima facie case of possession. this is best understood to mean that she must be found guilty unless there is evidence to prove her innocence.

2) the 'making an example' issue is a good point. imo it is always ridiculous when a judge says he will make an example of a case. however, i have heard this many times in courts, infact when i was (damn) convicted and sent to prison for drink driving the judge in england had said that he would make an example of my case. (for the record no one was injured and i learnt my lesson)

3) how could the court have given Corby the benefit of the doubt because nobody could possibly be stupid enough to carry around that much marijuana without expecting to get caught? this could be said of almost any criminal case.

the aid-leniency idea is ridiculous. seriously. off the top of my head (and i have to go now i'm getting late for a lecture) this is completely unfair as it means - for one - that countries that are wealthy enough to give aid to others have legal concessions given to their citizens over others. this is not justice, this is biased and deplorable.

in a legal sense, possession here is guilt. there was NO evidence to even remotely prove innocence. for the record, its a sad thing. if she is innocent then i feel for her. but the judgement was sound - they could not have found her innocent based on the evidence - the judges had their hands tied.
damn, i have to go now. when i get back from uni i may edit this post to expand on what i've said but till then i'll post this as is.

EDIT:
{god, the weather is bloody awful in auckland today. anyway, in sum, this is pretty much how i feel about the case. there really is not a great deal of evidence in this case in toto. the tragic thing is the fact that this is legally a prima facie case. if she is innocent its a disasterous set of circumstances that have ruined her life. even if she is guilty 20 years is a terrible thing - and while i don't think its a fair sentence in any country we have to accept the laws of sovereign states. poor girl - guilty or innocent. what has upset me is that many people are not basing what they say on fact and evidence. 'gut feeling' and ideas of 'racial and institutional superiority' are not a basis for argument. racism is a big problem in aus and nz imo.

as a final note, i think it is important to consider why this 'story' actually came to our attention when she is but one of many who have been caught importing drugs into indonesia. for sure, imo, its because she is a white woman, relatively photogenic and has a side-on profile reminiscent of a photo-finish in a zeppelin race.
whatever, everyone is entitled to an opinion and this thread could have gone wildly out of control. MJs comments calmed me down a bit so kudos to you (although i don't agree with you on this one ;) ) also, asqy, thanks for everything you said (obviously) I agreed with you.} :)

[asqy]

as a final note, i think it is important to consider why this 'story' actually came to our attention when she is but one of many who have been caught importing drugs into indonesia. for sure, imo, its because she is a white woman, relatively photogenic and has a side-on profile reminiscent of a photo-finish in a zeppelin race.
whatever, everyone is entitled to an opinion and this thread could have gone wildly out of control. MJs comments calmed me down a bit so kudos to you (although i don't agree with you on this one ;) ) also, asqy, thanks for everything you said (obviously) I agreed with you.} :)

Being an Aussie Law student who has 'logic' bashed into him along with notions of being able to justify your reasoning, the rantings of people so mad at Indonesia seems insane.

People out there screaming as to here innocence simply cannot justify their claims. Just like a person who screams as to her guilt cannot justify their claims.

Sadly this has brought out the worst in racial hatred. Which is always simmering under the surface in Australia (Hanson (overtly racist) 25% of Vote in QLD elections back in 98...John Howard race card 1998 elections...)

...and, I hope like many people, hate the idea of any notion of racism or some notion of racial superiority of exceptionalism.

It makes me angry that perfectly 'reasonable' people can hold such racially tainted views and not actually know how their comments are very racist. Or at least cannot make the inference between what they say and how it relates to notions of race relations. That people have to BE SHOWN how what they say is contradictory or baseless or has no justification.

I guess it’s ingrained in the Australian psyche...since the day of Federation. Up until 1970...and It continues to linger on...as it would expect to since government legitimized racism only stopped 40 years ago...and government encouragement and acceptance of other cultures only started 25 years ago.

[solvs]

In other words, it makes them feel better. Better than others. Deserving of "respect".
Well sure, if you want to be all cynical. :p I don't expect love or respect in return, I just like to do unto others as I would have them do unto me. If they don't want to reciprocate, that's up to them. Free will, and all. As I said, I feel the same way when people here in the US are let down by the system. I try not to judge an entire group of people based on the acts of a few, so I am angry such a thing has happened, but just want to point out that the 2 situations have nothing in common.

BTW, if the good guys only do good things because it makes them feel good... for some reason, I just don't seem to mind. ;) Better than others? Well, that's probably not so good. Respect has nothing to do with it if you expect nothing in return.

[broken_keyboard]

Hegemonia Australis! All hail Australia the great provider. India and all nations of southeast Asia bow down and be humbled by the unbridaled beneficence of the anglo-saxons that have brought greatness to our formerly murky asian waters! we must immediately change our laws to fall in line with yours and offer complete immunity to any whites that commit crimes in our countries.

Just because the citizens of one country tell the citizens of another country that their legal system stinks, doesn't make them racists. Maybe it really does stink.

[solvs]

Just because the citizens of one country tell the citizens of another country that their legal system stinks, doesn't make them racists. Maybe it really does stink.
Especially when a lot of us can admit to problems in our own countries that are just as bad, if not worse. Doesn't mean we can't still complain when we see injustice. Problem is, everyone seems to have a different definition of justice.

[deanbo]

Hegemonia Australis! All hail Australia the great provider. India and all nations of southeast Asia bow down and be humbled by the unbridaled beneficence of the anglo-saxons that have brought greatness to our formerly murky asian waters! we must immediately change our laws to fall in line with yours and offer complete immunity to any whites that commit crimes in our countries.


How ignorant can you get.

Yes all hail Australia, because they want someone to treat us the way we treat them? Do unto others as they do unto you.

We don't hand down 20 year sentences for Marijuana in Australia or NZ for these crimes.

So what if shes in Indonesia. Shes a citizen of Australia. She has the same rights as any other foreigner, no matter what the country. And that includes the right to a fair sentence.

If Indonesia can't respect that then they deserve to be boycotted.

[sourcemonkey]

Just because the citizens of one country tell the citizens of another country that their legal system stinks, doesn't make them racists. Maybe it really does stink.

i'm not saying that, really. the indonesian legal system is by no means a 'model for the world.'

Here, we're dealing with the corby case. there has been no impropriety in this particular case to my understanding. many of the comments the case has attracted are undeserved and, as such, smack of racism (that is, the idea that asians are unable to dispense justice).

EDIT { *yawn* i'm not getting sucked into a meaningless, circular argument here *deletes subsciption*}

[Sol]

Sadly this has brought out the worst in racial hatred. Which is always simmering under the surface in Australia (Hanson (overtly racist) 25% of Vote in QLD elections back in 98...John Howard race card 1998 elections...)

I agree that this case touches people's 'race' button and here in Australia there is certainly a lot of hate for Indonesians right now. Do not think for a second that this feeling is not mutual. A lot of Indonesians despise us for being Christians, Jews or atheists and having close ties with the USA. Those Indonesians place bombs in nightclubs, hotels and embassies in their country. Their supporters gather outside courts and cheer when Australians are sentenced for twenty years.

The outcome of this case is a kick in the teeth for Australia and we will not forget it. It remains to be seen what the outcome of this will be. Boycot of Bali & Indonesian goods? Count on it. Protests? Maybe. Indonesian fishermen rotting away in our detention centres? It seems fair now.

[broken_keyboard]

Especially when a lot of us can admit to problems in our own countries that are just as bad, if not worse. Doesn't mean we can't still complain when we see injustice. Problem is, everyone seems to have a different definition of justice.

I guess I don't believe that justice is culturally relative, there is objective justice and injustice. And when you see injustice you have a right (duty) to speak up about it.

[asqy]

I agree that this case touches people's 'race' button and here in Australia there is certainly a lot of hate for Indonesians right now. Do not think for a second that this feeling is not mutual. A lot of Indonesians despise us for being Christians, Jews or atheists and having close ties with the USA. Those Indonesians place bombs in nightclubs, hotels and embassies in their country. Their supporters gather outside courts and cheer when Australians are sentenced for twenty years.

You believe that because of that it is ok for the racial hate we feel?

Two wrongs dont make a right...and hating them back is not really going to achieve much at all other than justify some of their peoples asserted hatered towards Australia. I also object to lumping all Indonesians together as radical western hating terrorists. Just like it would be wrong for an indonesian to label all Australians as bigoted as racist. Even thought in both instances there are elements of truth.

Sadly this is beyond many Australians who cannot think past their narrow conceptions of the world.

The outcome of this case is a kick in the teeth for Australia and we will not forget it. It remains to be seen what the outcome of this will be. Boycot of Bali & Indonesian goods? Count on it. Protests? Maybe. Indonesian fishermen rotting away in our detention centres? It seems fair now.

I dont get this. Kick in the teeth? Did you expect indonesia to treat Corby any differently than all the other drugs cases. She is not exceptional. If anything she got a light sentence based on previous decisions. She is not exceptional.

Please tell me why this is a kick in the teeth. Did you expect that somehow and for some reason she would not be subject to the laws of the nation which she had chosen to visit?

[skunk]

I agree that this case touches people's 'race' button and here in Australia there is certainly a lot of hate for Indonesians right now. Do not think for a second that this feeling is not mutual. A lot of Indonesians despise us for being Christians, Jews or atheists and having close ties with the USA. Those Indonesians place bombs in nightclubs, hotels and embassies in their country. Their supporters gather outside courts and cheer when Australians are sentenced for twenty years.Oh, come on! There are plenty of reasons other than your being "Christians, Jews or atheists": how about abetting the "crusader" Bush against the Muslims in an illegal war and occupation?

The outcome of this case is a kick in the teeth for Australia and we will not forget it. It remains to be seen what the outcome of this will be. Boycot of Bali & Indonesian goods? Count on it. Protests? Maybe. Indonesian fishermen rotting away in our detention centres? It seems fair now.It is not a "kick in the teeth for Australia". It is the verdict of a court of law after due process on an apparently foolish and greedy girl. How does this justify a boycott or continued detention of Indonesian fishermen? Is this related? Please explain.

[mad jew]

Glad I could help sourcemonkey, I'm more than happy to agree to disagree on this one because I'm pretty sure we've narrowed it down to whether or not the trial was carried out fairly. I'm almost certain she was innocent and fingerprinting her bag would have proved this but we'll never know now so it's relatively just a moot point.

As for asqy, if you want to do well in your *ahem* Australian law course *ahem* (sorry, there must be something in my throat), then you may want some quick English lessons because that second-to-last post, despite being edited, is a little ambiguous in terms of both grammar and syntax. I know this is a very emotional argument, but that's no reason to forget about our 8th grade English. I'm not resorting to argue ad hominem but I genuinely struggled to understand your second-to-last post.

If you could elaborate and explain the following, that'd be great thanks. I think you probably have good arguments in their, it's just that as a non-law student, I'm struggling to understand some bits.

...and, I hope like many people, hate the idea of any notion of racism or some notion of racial superiority of exceptionalism.

It makes me angry that perfectly 'reasonable' people can hold such racially tainted views and not actually know how their comments are very racist. Or at least cannot make the inference between what they say and how it relates to notions of race relations. That people have to BE SHOWN how what they say is contradictory or baseless or has no justification.


And as for this bit, unless your full stop (period) button was jammed, this is a case of "go home and try again."


I guess it’s ingrained in the Australian psyche...since the day of Federation. Up until 1970...and It continues to linger on...as it would expect to since government legitimized racism only stopped 40 years ago...and government encouragement and acceptance of other cultures only started 25 years ago.

I'm sorry but I can't resist. That last bit, I'm pretty sure you're right. The government passed a bill that said we can now embrace other cultures. Although, this was actually only 23 years ago. They enforced it with giant rubber chickens I believe. ;)

Sorry for the sarcasm, but what makes you say stuff like that? Are they working you too hard at the *ahem* law school? Sorry, there's that throat problem again. :(

If you can just clean those little bits up, that'd be great thanks. Writing eloquently can be very beneficial in law and posts like those from sourcemonkey have actually made me think about this argument from a different angle. Even if it didn't end up swaying my opinions completely... ;)

[Sol]

Oh, come on! There are plenty of reasons other than your being "Christians, Jews or atheists": how about abetting the "crusader" Bush against the Muslims in an illegal war and occupation?

Bush went to war against Saddam's regime which was secular. Oil had more to do with America's motivations than faith. If the resistance that fights in Iraq want to dress themselves as martyrs that is their choice, but it does not change the real reason for America being there.

[broken_keyboard]

Bush went to war against Saddam's regime which was secular. Oil had more to do with America's motivations than faith. If the resistance that fights in Iraq want to dress themselves as martyrs that is their choice, but it does not change the real reason for America being there.

Part of the reason is to stop another 9/11. The reason those guys flew in to the WTC is because someone told them America was using her military might to supress Muslims around the world. What better way to undercut that argument than to free two Muslim countries from dictators?

[solvs]

Part of the reason is to stop another 9/11. The reason those guys flew in to the WTC is because someone told them America was using her military might to supress Muslims around the world. What better way to undercut that argument than to free two Muslim countries from dictators?
What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? Saddam didn't attack us, Bin Laden did. If we want to stop terrorists, wouldn't it be better to go after the terrorists than to start a "Holy War" against a country that (though run by a ruthless dictator) wasn't actually a current threat to us? Especially when we are obviously there for oil. Ask yourself, why were the fairly unprotected weapons areas so easily raided while our troops were too busy guarding the oil fields? Why did we pull people from Afganistan to start sending them to Iraq? I know people that that happened to, and I'm still scratching my head over it. Do you really think we've made the world safer for us? Do people hate us less now?

Sorry, OT I know. I'm sure this will be in the Political Forum soon anyway. But this is the kind of thinking that gets people mad at us. And unfortunetly the Aussies and Brits as well. Sorry guys, your leaders really shouldn't be listening to ours. We tried to warn you. :o

[sonyrules]

Regardless if she did it or not... 20 years is still a bit to much.... They think its showing a point, I think its showing how much of an ***hole they really are...

[Sol]

Regardless if she did it or not... 20 years is still a bit to much.... They think its showing a point, I think its showing how much of an ***hole they really are...

Exactly. Even a guilty person does not deserve such a barbaric sentence. Indonesia must be living in the Middle Ages if its judges think that twenty years for five kilos of pot is punishable with twenty years in one of their skunky prisons.

[Frisco]

I do and I agree that he is correct. It is after all human nature to be greedy and guess who has the power in capitalist states? Big business.

Just look who got your liar of a president into power, the big businesses who wanted more money spent on the military so they could continue to fill their overflowing coffers.

You are 100% correct and America's greed will be the reason I leave the US.

Ashamed to be a US citizen :(

[G5Zealot]

In the previous month, I was planning a trip to Southeast Asia. Sorry you Indonesian peasants, no tourist dollars for you! Go grow some rice. :D

Nobody likes a third-world country with Islamic fundamentalists and police-state tactics. :mad:

Anybody want to bet that Indonesian jails are not up-to-standard to US jails? :(

[mad jew]

Anybody want to bet that Indonesian jails are not up-to-standard to US jails? :(


I heard somewhere that humanitarians have predicted a 10-15 year life-span inside one of those prisons. Of course, I have absolutely no idea how they could possible come up with this so I'm not sure it's all that reliable. Still...

[asqy]

Originally Posted by asqy
It makes me angry that perfectly 'reasonable' people can hold such racially tainted views and not actually know how their comments are very racist. Or at least cannot make the inference between what they say and how it relates to notions of race relations. That people have to BE SHOWN how what they say is contradictory or baseless or has no justification.

Come on mad jew. It's an internet forum.

If you really cannot read the above you need help.

It's not perfect, its verbose for no real reason, it was written in a hurry and these uni computers have sticky keyboards.

Originally Posted by asqy
I guess it’s ingrained in the Australian psyche...since the day of Federation. Up until 1970...and It continues to linger on...as it would expect to since government legitimized racism only stopped 40 years ago...and government encouragement and acceptance of other cultures only started 25 years ago.

Sorry for the constant use of elipses. It's pretty obvious that I was not trying to construct sentences.

I believe you misuderstood my post.

The White Australia policy was washed away in the early 1970s by a combination of Holt and Whitlam.

Multiculturalism was government policy from 1975. From 1980s it went further. The Fraser government and the Hawke government made it a key policy.

I'm not sure why you are differentiating between sourcemonkey and I. Both our arguments are essentially the same. His tone is just less accusatory.

[mad jew]

I'm not sure why you are differentiating between sourcemonkey and I. Both our arguments are essentially the same. His tone is just less accusatory.


You just answered your own question. :D

And thankyou for clearing up what you meant, that's really all I was asking for. Looking back over my post, sorry if I came across a bit grumpy-like, I'd had a pretty lame day. :(

[Xtremehkr]

Couple of things;

It's just marijuana, it's not heroin or cocaine. It would have been sold and smoked without having hurt a single person. You would imagine that a 20 year sentence would be attached to a crime that hurt people. She wasn't going to force anyone to smoke it, they were probably going to pay her for it. I guess it depends on whether or not you support marijuana laws.

Another thing, she brought Australian money into Indonesia and was going to take drugs out of that country. A win win for Indonesia. Which is not exactly a country overflowing with wealth. Now they are going to keep her around and pay for her to be locked up for 20 years.

No matter how right or wrong it is, this is going to be painted as an us against them thing, a political windfall for Howard. I doubt he cares either way, but the political tough talk makes him look like a stronger leader.

[skunk]

In the previous month, I was planning a trip to Southeast Asia. Sorry you Indonesian peasants, no tourist dollars for you! Go grow some rice. :D

Nobody likes a third-world country with Islamic fundamentalists and police-state tactics. :mad:

Anybody want to bet that Indonesian jails are not up-to-standard to US jails? :(Despicable post. Racism is alive and well. PATRIOT Act, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Bagram, any number of US domestic prisons. Who are you trying to kid?

[skunk]

Couple of things;

It's just marijuana, it's not heroin or cocaine. It would have been sold and smoked without having hurt a single person. You would imagine that a 20 year sentence would be attached to a crime that hurt people. She wasn't going to force anyone to smoke it, they were probably going to pay her for it. I guess it depends on whether or not you support marijuana laws.Beside the point.

[kaylee]

I for one don't have too much of a problem with it!

Before anyone kicks up a stink with this consider the facts.

1. She had 4.1kg of cryvacked(spelling?) marijuana in her boogy bag note the bag was shaped considerably like a body bag
2. She initially refused to open the bag when customs in indonesia asked her to, she then started to yell and scream when they did begin to open it
3. She had had many trips to bali over the past year??
4. The indonesian legal system is as good as any other, in fact in some ways it is probably better in that leniant sentances are seldom given

Oh and yes i am a right wing prick :D


I just want to point out a few things -
with number 2,
The one thing that both sides agree on is that Schapelle's brother was carrying the body board bag (which is why SHE wouldn't have noticed a change in weight, and he may not have either if he was carrying a lot of luggage), and that when asked whos it was, she said "it's mine".
The indonesian customs official and an indonesian police officer both claim, however, that she hesitated in opening the bag.
Schapelle says after saying it was hers, she rushed up to get it, opened it up straight away without being asked, and was horrified to find the marijuana there.

the "fact" that she's had a huge number of trips to bali in the last year is incorrect. This was only her second trip to bali since the year 2000. She was meeting up with her sister, Mercedes, for a holiday, along with her brother and a few friends.

In regards to comments about her being a druggie, she has tested completely clean for drugs with blood and urine tests.

The 20 year sentence is very harsh, and seems a joke when drugs are apparently rife throughout the prison because of corrupt prison guards.

I do think she is most likely innocent, but she is going to have to come up with a very good appeal to change anything. Almost all the evidence given in the trial by the defence was dismissed because it was all hearsay/inadmissable evidence with nothing to prove the statements, and I cannot fault the judges for doing so. Also, apparently knowledge isn't necessarily considered part of possession under Indonesian law ( I found this out from Tim Lindsey, the expert in Asian law, that was on a TV special about Corby). So, even if she can prove her version of events (she didn't know it was there, it was planted), it might not make any difference. From listening to the closing statements and sentencing by the judges, they said there was no reason for her to import them for sale in Bali (no financial troubles, drugs worth far more here in Australia), that she had no criminal record, but as far as they are concerned, she admitted the bag was hers, therefore all items contained in there are also hers (which makes you wonder if she had stolen something and put it in her bag, would they consider that also hers???), and because the bag was taken through customs it counts as importing into Bali. The prosecution is appealing for a life sentence because they find the 20 year sentence to be "too light".

[asqy]

Also, apparently knowledge isn't necessarily considered part of possession under Indonesian law ( I found this out from Tim Lindsey, the expert in Asian law, that was on a TV special about Corby). So, even if she can prove her version of events (she didn't know it was there, it was planted), it might not make any difference. From listening to the closing statements and sentencing by the judges, they said there was no reason for her to import them for sale in Bali (no financial troubles, drugs worth far more here in Australia), that she had no criminal record, but as far as they are concerned, she admitted the bag was hers, therefore all items contained in there are also hers (which makes you wonder if she had stolen something and put it in her bag, would they consider that also hers???), and because the bag was taken through customs it counts as importing into Bali. The prosecution is appealing for a life sentence because they find the 20 year sentence to be "too light".

In reference to Australian law. We are moving towards knowlege not being needed in order for the person to have possession.

In some cases the person is 'deemed' to have possession.