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View Full Version : Install Snow Leopard on 2011 MBA, STILL no way?




ddong
Dec 13, 2011, 04:12 AM
Hello,

Everything's in the title, is there still no way to install SL on a 2011 MBA?

Thanks.



Xikum
Dec 13, 2011, 05:14 AM
I think the general consensus is that it is possible, but horribly unstable. Kernal panics everywhere.

Is Lion that bad?

eeptman
Dec 13, 2011, 05:45 AM
Second this…

If it were possible, I would like to downgrade back to Snow Leopard… especially for 2011 MBA. Lion consumes almost 2x battery (20%/hr) under the same tasks compared to 2010 MBA w/ Snow Leopard (10%/hr). :mad:

newdeal
Dec 13, 2011, 06:13 AM
I definitely wish you could put snow leopard on it. Maybe after a few more point releases Lion will get to snow leopards stability and performance

theSeb
Dec 13, 2011, 06:54 AM
You can right now, as a virtual machine, if you get VmWare Fusion 4.1 - although I am expecting this functionality to be taken away again in the next release.

paulrbeers
Dec 13, 2011, 07:25 AM
Second this…

If it were possible, I would like to downgrade back to Snow Leopard… especially for 2011 MBA. Lion consumes almost 2x battery (20%/hr) under the same tasks compared to 2010 MBA w/ Snow Leopard (10%/hr). :mad:

And you know this how? What I mean, is if you can't run Snow Leopard on THIS EXACT hardware, then you can't make a direct comparison stating that Lion is the culprit.

Frankly, I love Lion. It took me awhile to get the hang of it, but the swipe features/full screen apps is amazing. It actually convinced my wife to switch to Mac. I think the real problem is that everyone got used to the Leopard and Snow Leopard interface since we all had the exact same interface for 4 years. It's like those who were slow to migrate from XP to Windows 7, you just got used to it one way and now you have to learn some new "stuff"...

Xikum
Dec 13, 2011, 07:49 AM
And you know this how? What I mean, is if you can't run Snow Leopard on THIS EXACT hardware, then you can't make a direct comparison stating that Lion is the culprit.

Frankly, I love Lion. It took me awhile to get the hang of it, but the swipe features/full screen apps is amazing. It actually convinced my wife to switch to Mac. I think the real problem is that everyone got used to the Leopard and Snow Leopard interface since we all had the exact same interface for 4 years. It's like those who were slow to migrate from XP to Windows 7, you just got used to it one way and now you have to learn some new "stuff"...

I agree. I think Lion is more efficient than SL, and as for battery life; its very difficult to compare, considering the new MBAs have different components.

I use a 2010 MBA that had SL (which I upgraded to Lion) and it gets the exact same, if not more battery life; general browsing takes my up to about 8 hours, and if I'm just reading things, the battery life estimate is up to 10-13 hours at times.

eeptman
Dec 13, 2011, 07:59 AM
No offensive here.
I've been using OS X since 2008 Leopard and barely using Windows. But I do prefer Snow Leopard rather than 10.5/10.7 so far.

Lion does consume more power at the same meantime. If you went to Apple Support forum, you should find a thread relating battery issue. It is not only my case. The most advanced OS 10.7 should at least compete with 10.6.x at its first release version. It is Apple's duty for this.

I am not satisfied with spending thousands money… and end up w/ a machine that you should turn off bluetooth, turn off flash, degrade screen brightness… and so on in order to get better battery life. It happened before on iPhone and I've seen this almost every generation of iOS.

So anyone who works for Apple, please fix the issue as soon as possible. Thanks. Since I've written feedback to them and never got any response ever. And I stuck with Lion because I couldn't install previous OS on my machine. WHY?

Gemütlichkeit
Dec 13, 2011, 08:11 AM
Is Lion that bad?

No. People just hate change.

eeptman
Dec 13, 2011, 08:22 AM
I would say that probably Lion didn't bring much advantage in his/her case. It is not users' fault.

theSeb
Dec 13, 2011, 08:31 AM
I've only been using SL since 2009 and I found the switch to Lion to be fairly easy and painless. I wouldn't be able to go back since I prefer the way Lion does things like spaces.

eeptman
Dec 13, 2011, 09:42 AM
Well, I am not going to argue anymore. It's not always the case that Apple is perfect. If so, there is no more "Antenna gate" would happen. And IT gets FIXED later.

Lion has battery problem. But don't refer my words to "Lion is bad" or not.
Please let's back to OP's question. Can we install Snow Leopard on 2011 MBA? If not, why not?

Is Snow Leopard bad? :p

oneMadRssn
Dec 13, 2011, 09:47 AM
The OP asked about the feasibility of putting SL on 2011 MBA hardware, and everything decided to instead give their opinion of the OS. Gotta love the internet.

To answer the OPs question:
- I am sure it is technically possible to have SL running on 2011 MBA hardware perfectly. Remember those rumors that the 2011 MBA was delayed until after the launch of Lion so that they could launch it with Lion preinstalled? This implies that they had a version of SL ready to go before Lion.
- Practically speaking, unless Apple voluntarily chooses to release (or someone else internal to apple leaks) the SL drivers for 2011 MBA hardware, it is not possible to have SL running perfectly.

See here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1194127
The main problem I got was video acceleration. I did try it but the bottom of the Air got uncomfortably warm so I shut it down. Still not hardware video acceleration. That is the main sticking point it looks like. Not sure what the CPU was doing - I do know Spotlight was indexing, but it was so warm I was a little uncomfortable leaving it that way knowing the SMC kext just might no be playing nice with Snow Leopard. There are a few differences - one being an internal display of course. This is where one of the sticking points are. If the the internal display does not work (LED backlight illuminates, but that's all) unless you change around some of the kext files. When that is done, it seems they load enough to provide video but not acceleration. When you look at the console, it is trying to access APIs that are not there and the video drivers to not load. I will mess more with it later, but that is where I am right now.

Since the mini has only external video, it seems that the kexts are for external video. If you connect the Air to an external monitor, you can see the video on 10.6.7 or 10.6.8.

iSee
Dec 13, 2011, 11:35 AM
Remember those rumors that the 2011 MBA was delayed until after the launch of Lion so that they could launch it with Lion preinstalled? This implies that they had a version of SL ready to go before Lion.

:confused: I don't think it implies that at all. If anything, the opposite. I haven't seen any evidence that the needed SL drivers exist... (Maybe they do, but until they show up someplace it's just guessing.)

oneMadRssn
Dec 13, 2011, 12:13 PM
:confused: I don't think it implies that at all. If anything, the opposite. I haven't seen any evidence that the needed SL drivers exist... (Maybe they do, but until they show up someplace it's just guessing.)

I was being completely speculative, but I think it makes sense. The 2011 MBA was released in July with the launch of Lion. According to the rumors, Apple began hardware production in China of the 2011 MBA in May, and then decided to delay the launch so that they could reflash OS (update to Lion) into already-made MBAs and launch them with Lion preinstalled.

From this, I gather that the original plan was to launch the 2011 MBA with SL, and MBAs with SL were made between May and June. Therefore, somewhere there exists a build of SL with all the correct drivers for the 2011 MBA.

Of course, I stress the fact that is all based on rumors, speculation, and bullsiht. :-)


In the meantime, I plan to try the method 2011 Mac Mini users are using for installing SL sometime after my finals are done... Because I really want to downgrade to SL. If apple were to sell their version of SL with the 2011 MBA drivers, I would buy it.

paulrbeers
Dec 13, 2011, 12:50 PM
The OP asked about the feasibility of putting SL on 2011 MBA hardware, and everything decided to instead give their opinion of the OS. Gotta love the internet.


While true, why else would someone want to move from Lion to Snow Leopard if they didn't like it? You certainly wouldn't do it "just because". Often times, people need a little reassurance that new isn't bad. I know many times I've resisted change only to have others state "you just gotta give it some time and give it a try"... I tell that to my wife almost every day as she makes the switch from PC to Mac. Frankly, the OP hasn't given us any reason that he wants to put Snow Leopard on his MBA, so we are left with trying to figure out why and help him get past the hang ups we THINK he has with it.....

----------


Lion has battery problem. But don't refer my words to "Lion is bad" or not.


I've not had any battery problems on my Early 2011 MBP. Battery life is on par with what it was before. But then again, I don't stress out about whether my systems last 4.5 or 5 hours on a single charge.

eeptman
Dec 13, 2011, 04:53 PM
you know what?
I truly don't care about if these are EXACTLY SAME machines. Even the same generation of Macbook series, they have several revised versions or components out of factory. Typically, they are different.

What I care about is the consistence. Since I perform the same tasks on new machine but get better user experience on old machine, why I couldn't complain about the new OS X?

Take a look at the remote recovery… just like the iOS. Once the newer 10.7.x released, you are not able to back to previous version. And I have to say that not every released update brings up the same quality. Apple doesn't allow us downgrading OS, then, please make it perfect.

paulrbeers
Dec 13, 2011, 05:12 PM
Your points make no sense. Case in point:

you know what?
I truly don't care about if these are EXACTLY SAME machines. Even the same generation of Macbook series, they have several revised versions or components out of factory. Typically, they are different.

While I agree Apple does get parts from many different component vendors, you certainly can't compare a completely different generation of machine (i.e. the 2010 MBA vs the 2011 MBA) in order to say that the battery life of one OS vs another is better or worse for that matter. However, I can tell you that the battery life of my MBP running Snow Leopard vs Lion is virtually indistinguishable and guess what? That IS exactly the same hard ware.


What I care about is the consistence. Since I perform the same tasks on new machine but get better user experience on old machine, why I couldn't complain about the new OS X?
.

Further, I don't get this point. So your old machine does exactly what you want it to do running Snow Leopard? Why are you commenting in a thread that the OP is asking about downgrading on a brand new MBA? If you were happy with your old setup, then what the new 2011 MBA does or doesn't do (i.e. which OS it can run) shouldn't matter to you. Get rid of it and go back....

Points invalidated....

orfeas0
Dec 13, 2011, 05:12 PM
No offensive here.
I've been using OS X since 2008 Leopard and barely using Windows. But I do prefer Snow Leopard rather than 10.5/10.7 so far.

Lion does consume more power at the same meantime. If you went to Apple Support forum, you should find a thread relating battery issue. It is not only my case. The most advanced OS 10.7 should at least compete with 10.6.x at its first release version. It is Apple's duty for this.

I am not satisfied with spending thousands money… and end up w/ a machine that you should turn off bluetooth, turn off flash, degrade screen brightness… and so on in order to get better battery life. It happened before on iPhone and I've seen this almost every generation of iOS.

So anyone who works for Apple, please fix the issue as soon as possible. Thanks. Since I've written feedback to them and never got any response ever. And I stuck with Lion because I couldn't install previous OS on my machine. WHY?

Bolded part:
I don't know what other laptop brands you've used, but from my personal experience (hp-toshiba-acer), even a 1300$ machine has a 30min battery life, while my 1000$ MBA lasts 5 hours, so no complaints here.
Don't be so spoiled people.
Oh and also, why the hell do you want to downgrade (not [b]you[/you] personally), Lion has SO many new amazing features (fullscreen-app switching without the keyboard-mission control-swipe back-forward in safari etc) that it seems incredibly strange to me that some people like snow leopard better...

eeptman
Dec 13, 2011, 06:14 PM
Because I've upgraded to the new machine for a while. The reason for upgrading is for its backlight keyboard. But so far, I only hope it has the same battery life performance like 2010's one.

For the OS part, I like SL's Quicklook more because it could zoom in PDFs under full screen mode. I often read lots of documents. It made previewing PDF on a 13" screen more efficiently than Lion. And the dictionary gets higher priority in SL's Spotlight result. Four-finger-swipe on SL brings up app-switch window. They are great features for me.

As for Lion, its full-screen, auto-save mode, and the three-tap gesture for look-up dictionary do attract me. But I like Spaces more than the new Mission Control. Because fixed space position is more clear for me at most of time.

I do not think I am spoiled. Just hope Lion get better.

oneMadRssn
Dec 13, 2011, 07:04 PM
I agree with eeptman.

I also don't like mission control. I miss the old way expose was done.
I don't like the UI tweaks in Lion, I miss having color in the sidebar and bigger traffic light buttons.
I also prefer the old quickview.

Regardless of hardware, I have read almost no one saying that Lion provides better battery life, and better speed, than SL. So far, everyone either get's the same or worse with Lion. So at best, Lion is the same. Probably, it is actually slightly worse battery-wise and performance-wise.

Why discourage someone from getting what they want?

Naysayers step aside. I want to drum up more support for the "get Snow Leopard to work on our 2011 MBAs" movement! Occupy Infinite Loop!!

stockscalper
Dec 16, 2011, 08:08 AM
Lion, the Vista of OS X. So glad I have a 2010 MBA and can run Snow Leopard.

NutsNGum
Dec 16, 2011, 09:52 AM
Lion, the Vista of OS X. So glad I have a 2010 MBA and can run Snow Leopard.

Typing in the dark is a real joy with that model, also, I found.

Xikum
Dec 16, 2011, 10:23 AM
Typing in the dark is a real joy with that model, also, I found.

http://images.fastcompany.com/upload/homerowbumps.jpg

See those little indents on the J and F keys? That is more than enough for anybody who can touch type, back light keyboards are a novelty if you ask me.

NutsNGum
Dec 16, 2011, 10:39 AM
http://images.fastcompany.com/upload/homerowbumps.jpg

See those little indents on the J and F keys? That is more than enough for anybody who can touch type, back light keyboards are a novelty if you ask me.

Yep, they're helpful for the blind as well.

I think backlit keyboards are functional and nice to have. I think if you can't touch type, they're also pretty nifty.

KnightWRX
Dec 16, 2011, 11:03 AM
Yep, they're helpful for the blind as well.

I think backlit keyboards are functional and nice to have. I think if you can't touch type, they're also pretty nifty.

I wish my DAS Ultimate had backlit keys. That way, I could see the blank keys in the dark.

Anyway, OS X Lion is very nice, I especially love Mission Control. Quite happy with it on my 2010 MBA and frankly, I've not noticed any problems with battery life.

jdechko
Dec 16, 2011, 12:21 PM
The most advanced OS 10.7 should at least compete with 10.6.x at its first release version. It is Apple's duty for this.

Snow Leopard has had 9 releases vs. Lion's 3. Leopard had 9. Tiger had 12.

Snow Leopard had some serious issues when it was released as well, as in massive user data loss. Leopard had some serious issues too with APE (a common piece of software) crashing the system.

When you go in and re-write an entire operating system, there are bound to be bugs. And if you stick around long enough, Lion will be just as stable as SL. And then 10.8.0 will be released and people will complain about how awful it is compared to 10.7.whatever-the-latest-point-release-of-Lion-is.

So Chill, there's a lot worse bugs than slightly worse battery life.

eeptman
Dec 17, 2011, 08:53 AM
If no one talk about it, typically, I dun expect any improvement will be released. Just look at what we got so far. Their first version of products become unreliable. We have to wait for at lease three or four update according to their past credit.

Did I mention the inconsistence of gesture while Lion first came out? When you enable Lion's new gestures, the original back-and-forth gesture in Finder suddenly doesn't work anymore…neither in iTunes nor in Mac App Store.

The devil is in the detail, isn't it?

What I mention before are those product reviews won't tell. They are also part of user's experiences. I do glad to see some Lion's new features. But some great feature could be kept among OS's iterations.

Would it be hard to implement Quicklook's PDF zoom-in in full screen mode?
Would it be hard to provide a spotlight setting to set higher priority of Dictionary look-up result?

These are features ever exist... we haven't even talk about those never exist. I am not asking for big features.

cathyy
Dec 19, 2011, 12:11 AM
I used Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard & Lion. Lion is the only OS which I heavily dislike. Feels slow and sluggish and ruined some things about SL which I liked. I especially hate how it handles Spaces & Expose. :mad:

I'm just glad that I decided to buy a 2010 Refurb MBA instead of a 2011 MBA and therefore I have the choice to use SL.

newdeal
Dec 19, 2011, 07:07 AM
I especially hate how upon booting it loads all these windows I don't want open just because they were open when it shut down. That is really irritating

Vantage Point
Dec 19, 2011, 07:53 AM
It's threads like this that keep my using SL. For myself, it ain't broke so I had no reason to fix (upgrade) it.

ddong
Dec 19, 2011, 01:16 PM
Thread is about SL on 2011 MBA. Not 2010.

2IS
Dec 19, 2011, 01:41 PM
My battery life on LION vs SL on my 2010 MBA is virtually the same. SL was a bit better because I was able to run CoolBook on it and lower the processors voltage which I can't do on Lion, but without cookbook running the battery life is a wash.

That said, "instant on" worked much better and was far more "instant" under SL.

monkeybagel
Dec 19, 2011, 05:07 PM
I felt the same way with Lion when it came out. However, with the full screen applications and being able to swipe to Fusion, Terminal, or whatever else, I must say I could not go back now. If you only used Lion long enough to play with it and reverted back, I would encourage you to do a nice clean installation of Lion. Particularly on an SSD Air, it runs excellent, gets good battery life, and the full screen apps with the trackpad are wonderful. To be able to swipe over to Windows Server 2003 to do Windows administration tasks is an excellent feature.

Give it a shot. I am more productive in 10.7 than I was 10.6 after using it a while.

prumm
May 3, 2012, 06:45 AM
Ok, you guys wanna know why people want Snow Leopard back?

Change for change's sake isn't innovation.

1 - Speed. SSD to SSD, Snow Leopard is quicker. Until Lion is quicker, I literally do not give a ***** about it. Lion is bloated.
2 - Rosetta support. It's not the user's fault their software is written in PPC. Doesn't mean we should be forced to stop using it.
3 - LaunchPad. The retarded love child of iOS and AtEase Items (think back people, 1996). I have a Dock, Applications folder and Spotlight to find anything I need far quicker than LaunchPad.
4 - Library (or Libraries). I don't wan't to have to hold an Option key to make it visible in the menu.
5 - Gestures. I don't like them in Lion. I like them in Snow Leopard. You only added Pinch and Spread, but you ruined everything else.
6 - Full Screen Apps. The whole concept of 'maximise' and 'full screen' has been argued as inefficient by Apple for many many years with the green Expand button, which makes a window as big as it needs to be to display the content. Super stupid for anyone who forked out for a THUNDERBOLT DISPLAY which is rendered TOTALLY USELESS WHILE IN FULL SCREEN MODE.
7 - Battery life. Kids, on a 2010 MBA that dual boots between Lion and Snow Leopard, Snow Leopard always sees 1hr+ better battery life under general usage. This is something I've tested personally, besides all the anecdotal evidence I'd see at the bar with customers that have recently upgraded (this includes MBP's also, particularly 17").
8 - Mission Control. DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED! Putting all my windows that are clustered behind windows, and putting them in even smaller clusters where I still can't see them properly?
9 - Repeating keys. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have quick access to repetitive characters than an accented è for every time I write souffle. Oh wait, I'm not French, I still wouldn't use the accent!
10 - Distribution. I don't want to download 4GB worth of data the next time my recovery partition craps out. The EFI partition of a machine becomes corrupted more often that you'd think, and as you cannot use the internal recovery partition to reformat the drive, only the visible volumes, that means you need to use the full-blown internet recovery. Would it cost that much to throw in a USB stick like you used to? Or even CD media?


These are just a few of the multitude of sore spots I have with Lion. After working at the Genius Bar and dealing with the horror stories for so long, I could never offer my personal recommendation for a customer to upgrade.

Change for change's sake isn't innovation.

------

How are we going to get a stable copy of Snow Leopard running on these brilliant machines that are being crippled by Apple's Vista?

oneMadRssn
May 3, 2012, 10:57 AM
How are we going to get a stable copy of Snow Leopard running on these brilliant machines that are being crippled by Apple's Vista?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1352079

prumm
May 5, 2012, 08:18 AM
My project for the weekend :D

Cheffy Dave
May 5, 2012, 09:51 AM
I especially hate how upon booting it loads all these windows I don't want open just because they were open when it shut down. That is really irritating

upon rebooting, in the shut down screen uncheck, load all open windows:eek:

winterlocked
May 5, 2012, 01:39 PM
9 - Repeating keys. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have quick access to repetitive characters than an accented è for every time I write souffle. Oh wait, I'm not French, I still wouldn't use the accent!

Not to mention the loss of front row. It's nice to have music playing while making souffles.

prumm
May 7, 2012, 09:28 AM
upon rebooting, in the shut down screen uncheck, load all open windows:eek:

In Applications as well! Text Edit, Safari, Logic! I closed them before I shut down! I closed all the windows in the App but no! Everything comes back! I closed down that window full of porn BECAUSE I WAS DONE WITH IT!

It's ***** annoying!

Even worse, to turn it off you have to go digging through preferences and have previously noticed that option was placed NEXT TO THE TEXT SMOOTHING OPTIONS!!! Who the F$%# put it there?!?!

elppa
May 7, 2012, 10:44 AM
When you go in and re-write an entire operating system, there are bound to be bugs.

10.6 was very likely more of a rewrite. Even if it didn't look like one based on the user facing features.

MichaelLAX
May 7, 2012, 11:25 AM
Need Rosetta in Lion? Try: Installing Snow Leopard (and Rosetta) in Parallels 7 in Lion:

Full instructions here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=14799174#post14799174)

Cheffy Dave
May 12, 2012, 01:43 AM
In Applications as well! Text Edit, Safari, Logic! I closed them before I shut down! I closed all the windows in the App but no! Everything comes back! I closed down that window full of porn BECAUSE I WAS DONE WITH IT!

It's ***** annoying!

Even worse, to turn it off you have to go digging through preferences and have previously noticed that option was placed NEXT TO THE TEXT SMOOTHING OPTIONS!!! Who the F$%# put it there?!?!

Hey glad you found it !:)

robeddie
May 12, 2012, 04:16 PM
Thread is about SL on 2011 MBA. Not 2010.

Since everyone around here wants to talk around the question rather than answer it directly, the answer is YES, SL can be installed on a 2011 MBA:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1352079

polee
May 13, 2012, 01:53 AM
Wirelessly posted

I used Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard & Lion. Lion is the only OS which I heavily dislike. Feels slow and sluggish and ruined some things about SL which I liked. I especially hate how it handles Spaces & Expose. :mad:

I'm just glad that I decided to buy a 2010 Refurb MBA instead of a 2011 MBA and therefore I have the choice to use SL.

Don't know much about Lion but I did not exercise my option to upgrade when I bought my MBA which came with Snow Leopard in October 2011. Now I am thinking that I have done the right thing?