PDA

View Full Version : [tablets] iPad vs. Playbook




Jackintosh
Dec 17, 2011, 11:19 AM
We all know the iPad is superior to the Playbook, except in price point.

I'm wondering what opinions are if now, at the significant $199 vs. $499 difference, this overcomes any deficiencies the Playbook had and makes it a cost-effective competitor for basic wi-fi web-browsing needs.



jca24
Dec 17, 2011, 11:48 AM
playbook should be priced at $79.99. It's junk. rim is dead.

:apple:

Richard8655
Dec 17, 2011, 11:55 AM
playbook should be priced at $79.99. It's junk. rim is dead.

:apple:

It's not junk if you read authoritative tablet reviews. It's almost always in the top 10, and rates well for user interface, speed, hardware, and overall web browsing functionality. To dismiss it just for being a diehard iPad/Apple fan is one-sided and not objective.

Gav2k
Dec 17, 2011, 12:05 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

The play book is ok it just lacks in key areas like the lack of a native email app.

saberahul
Dec 17, 2011, 12:06 PM
One works, one doesn't.

*LTD*
Dec 17, 2011, 12:58 PM
It's not junk if you read authoritative tablet reviews. It's almost always in the top 10, and rates well for user interface, speed, hardware, and overall web browsing functionality. To dismiss it just for being a diehard iPad/Apple fan is one-sided and not objective.

Ok.

Objectively, it's junk. Better?

There's a reason they can't sell them. There's a reason RIM is circling the drain.

3lionsbecks
Dec 17, 2011, 01:13 PM
playbook should be priced at $79.99. It's junk. rim is dead.

:apple:

What an idiotic response.

I actually did order one for $99 (and one for my dad as well) At $99 you can't buy any device that has the capabilities and cameras that the playbook has.

As is it is a good web-surfing device, allows for video calling, BB bridging if you have a BB, plays music and videos very well and has a number of useful apps available.

While I know that the Playbook will not be as user friendly and versatile right now as the iPad I still think it is great value for money.

The hardware of the Playbook is very good. The issue is the app functionality right now. I am hoping that the OS update in Feb. will address many of the basic issues with the Playbook's software.

The fact that it is scheduled to have Native email and and Android app. player in the new update will make this device a steal.

As it is I cannot recommend it over the iPad but I am hopeful that it will be a more useful machine very soon

at the price point I got it for I have to say its worth the Gamble.

Gav2k
Dec 17, 2011, 01:13 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

The play book is ok it just lacks in key areas like the lack of a native email app.

3lionsbecks
Dec 17, 2011, 01:17 PM
Ok.

There's a reason RIM is circling the drain.

RIM isn't dead.

Infact, RIM made $5.4 billion in PROFIT last quarter. They expanded their market share in Europe and the middle east.

The Bold continues to do very well and the release of their new Server based business model they will continue to grow and grow.

People saying RIM is dying are probably the same people who were saying Microsoft was dying a few years back.

Just because Apple kicks their butts in commercial sales doesn't mean they are wiping the floor with them. The business markets are much much bigger and more lucrative for these billion dollar companies.

Mac.World
Dec 17, 2011, 01:28 PM
RIM isn't dead.

Infact, RIM made $5.4 billion in PROFIT last quarter. They expanded their market share in Europe and the middle east.

The Bold continues to do very well and the release of their new Server based business model they will continue to grow and grow.

People saying RIM is dying are probably the same people who were saying Microsoft was dying a few years back.

Just because Apple kicks their butts in commercial sales doesn't mean they are wiping the floor with them. The business markets are much much bigger and more lucrative for these billion dollar companies.
RIM is actually pretty much a dead company walking. Every quarter they sell less devices, their stock continues to drop, investors are fleeing as fast as possible and you couple this with the layoffs we saw in 2011 and constant delays for OS10 and you are talking about a company in its final death throws.

It isn't helping that the two CEO,s running RIM are complete morons. Unless something major happens in 2012, don't expect to see RIM survive to 2013, except as a penny stock.

Saying all that, I look at the Playbook as the next Touchpad. A device that likely won't be supported by the company, but can be rooted or dual booted to accept Android. At less than $200, this makes the device very attractive for individuals that don't mind getting a little dirty by jailbreaking/rooting. If I can get one for $99. At that price, it's a good deal, even if it is never again supported by RIM.

falconeight
Dec 17, 2011, 02:10 PM
You should be banned for titling a thread playbook vs iPad.:D

3lionsbecks
Dec 17, 2011, 03:18 PM
RIM is actually pretty much a dead company walking. Every quarter they sell less devices, their stock continues to drop, investors are fleeing as fast as possible and you couple this with the layoffs we saw in 2011 and constant delays for OS10 and you are talking about a company in its final death throws.

It isn't helping that the two CEO,s running RIM are complete morons. Unless something major happens in 2012, don't expect to see RIM survive to 2013, except as a penny stock.

Saying all that, I look at the Playbook as the next Touchpad. A device that likely won't be supported by the company, but can be rooted or dual booted to accept Android. At less than $200, this makes the device very attractive for individuals that don't mind getting a little dirty by jailbreaking/rooting. If I can get one for $99. At that price, it's a good deal, even if it is never again supported by RIM.

Hard to argue that RIM hasn't made mistakes recently but things are not as bad as the media hype lets on. The stock has a lot of rebuilding to do no doubt but I personally wouldn't write them off.

In anycase, even if RIM did go under in the next 5 years (with overall world market share increasing each year including this past year I can't see how it would before even 5 years from now) but if it does, as long as this BBX 2.0 update comes out in feb. it would be worth it to buy a playbook.

In 2 years I won't be using my iPhone 4s let alone a $99 tablet. Even the iPad 1 feels like it should be replaced by the upcoming iPad 3. So if RIM gets an Android APP player working and the Playbook functions decently for 1 or 2 years I'd be more than happy.

Now, the $99 price is because I have quite a few friends who work for RIM and the Employee pricing for the 16gb model was at that price for a limited time. The employee price is still $199. They had an order limit of 5 but I know a guy who ordered 18 because other people he works with didn't order any at all.

When there is a $500 price difference (in Canada) between the two devices it really isn't worth comparing them. I didn't buy the playbook instead of an iPad 2....but if I could;t afford the iPad I would think that a Playbook (at its price) makes a great budget friendly alternative.

falconeight
Dec 17, 2011, 03:27 PM
Hard to argue that RIM hasn't made mistakes recently but things are not as bad as the media hype lets on. The stock has a lot of rebuilding to do no doubt but I personally wouldn't write them off.

In anycase, even if RIM did go under in the next 5 years (with overall world market share increasing each year including this past year I can't see how it would before even 5 years from now) but if it does, as long as this BBX 2.0 update comes out in feb. it would be worth it to buy a playbook.

In 2 years I won't be using my iPhone 4s let alone a $99 tablet. Even the iPad 1 feels like it should be replaced by the upcoming iPad 3. So if RIM gets an Android APP player working and the Playbook functions decently for 1 or 2 years I'd be more than happy.

Now, the $99 price is because I have quite a few friends who work for RIM and the Employee pricing for the 16gb model was at that price for a limited time. The employee price is still $199. They had an order limit of 5 but I know a guy who ordered 18 because other people he works with didn't order any at all.

When there is a $500 price difference (in Canada) between the two devices it really isn't worth comparing them. I didn't buy the playbook instead of an iPad 2....but if I could;t afford the iPad I would think that a Playbook (at its price) makes a great budget friendly alternative.


Os 2 will not get developers in their corner. It's to little to late the playbook has ran its product cycle and is a failed platform. If a company can't get email on a tablet in a year then it has no place in the computing business.

ashman70
Dec 17, 2011, 03:42 PM
Changes in the mobile market happen faster now then ever before, companies must innovate constantly, bring out new products with new features and update their OS's with new features as well, consumers and business users alike expect this. RIM has stopped innovating, they release the same old devices with the same old functionality, and their OS updates are nowhere near as game changing as their competitors. The leadership at RIM is ineffective, their stock reflects this, they are laying people off at a time when they should be hiring developers with fresh ideas. They recently announced that their new devices with their new OS won't be released until likely last quarter 2012, who do they think is going to wait around for this? Unless the company can turn itself around now, I give it six months before their stock is delisted and someone big like Microsoft or Google comes in and buys them just for their patents. I am not a 'doom and gloomer' or 'naysayer' but I am looking at the facts. The company is stuck in the past, people want more then just email on their mobile devices these days, BBM is no longer the game changer is was, Apple's iMessage has now taken the one thing blackberry's had that made them unique, away from them. Also, the model of centralized servers, where everyones email goes through their infrastructure is silly, the recent outage that affected blackberry users worldwide showed this, and what was the companies response, one month of free tech support for corporate users and a couple of free games for everyone else, thanks but no thanks.

Mac.World
Dec 17, 2011, 04:59 PM
When there is a $500 price difference (in Canada) between the two devices it really isn't worth comparing them. I didn't buy the playbook instead of an iPad 2....but if I could;t afford the iPad I would think that a Playbook (at its price) makes a great budget friendly alternative.

I agree with this. I would recommend the Playbook over the Kindle Fire if both were the same price, especially if you can get complete access to Googles Android marketplace. I really hope that tablets like the Playbook are able to load ICS. It would make them much more attractive to potential buyers.

I'm still waiting for CM9 to get finished so I can dual boot my Touchpad into Android. If RIM drops the price to $99 on the Playbook, I'm buying one. On the flipside, if someone gave me a Kindle Fire for free, I'd donate it to a charity.

MrXiro
Dec 17, 2011, 06:45 PM
Where can we get a Playbook for 99 bucks... or 199 for that matter?

Jackintosh
Dec 17, 2011, 08:23 PM
Where can we get a Playbook for 99 bucks... or 199 for that matter?

The Playbook pre-xmas sale ended. But you can get it again for $199 starting Dec. 26 from Sprint online. No contract or phone commitment, as it'll be sold under accessories.

Other than for RIM employees, I wonder how Playbook was available for $99.

joshwithachance
Dec 17, 2011, 08:30 PM
I bought a PlayBook a few weeks ago. It has now been sold on Amazon and I finally have a white iPad 2. I think that says everything. Even at $199 the PlayBook is a piece of crap. The hardware is excellent, and the way it handles multitasking is awesome, but everything else is just garbage.

My main complaints:
- Have to tap things in the browser multiple times (SO aggravating!)
- Dust under screen/dead pixels are very common with them
- Considering the cameras are 3 and 5 megapixels they are WEAK!
- 7" widescreen isn't practical for anything beside reading books.
- No email client (which will be solved in February, but DAMN it took a whole year!)
- Super anemic app selection.
- Probably has no future.

Jackintosh
Dec 17, 2011, 09:18 PM
I bought a PlayBook a few weeks ago. It has now been sold on Amazon and I finally have a white iPad 2. I think that says everything. Even at $199 the PlayBook is a piece of crap. The hardware is excellent, and the way it handles multitasking is awesome, but everything else is just garbage.

My main complaints:
- Have to tap things in the browser multiple times (SO aggravating!)
- Dust under screen/dead pixels are very common with them
- Considering the cameras are 3 and 5 megapixels they are WEAK!
- 7" widescreen isn't practical for anything beside reading books.
- No email client (which will be solved in February, but DAMN it took a whole year!)
- Super anemic app selection.
- Probably has no future.

Well stated. Although at just a third of the price of an iPad, I'd say it has value in what it does even if not as well.

saberahul
Dec 17, 2011, 09:52 PM
What an idiotic response.

I actually did order one for $99 (and one for my dad as well) At $99 you can't buy any device that has the capabilities and cameras that the playbook has.

As is it is a good web-surfing device, allows for video calling, BB bridging if you have a BB, plays music and videos very well and has a number of useful apps available.

While I know that the Playbook will not be as user friendly and versatile right now as the iPad I still think it is great value for money.

The hardware of the Playbook is very good. The issue is the app functionality right now. I am hoping that the OS update in Feb. will address many of the basic issues with the Playbook's software.

The fact that it is scheduled to have Native email and and Android app. player in the new update will make this device a steal.

As it is I cannot recommend it over the iPad but I am hopeful that it will be a more useful machine very soon

at the price point I got it for I have to say its worth the Gamble.

We all have our opinions but I do not agree with this. I bought one because I wanted to like it... it never worked though. Upon launching the browser, the device would crash and go in its 7 minute reboot (just like the smartphones). The camera had the blurriest pictures I have ever seen in my life and the lack of an email client made the thing utterly useless for my business needs. I'm not a die-hard Apple fan or w.e company fan. All I demand is for a product to work and to work efficiently... the iPad does this well and I am yet to find another tablet that even comes close (including the Kindle Fire and the Nook Tablet). In my uses, the PlayBook comes at the very end of the list of tablets. As it is for me, I will never touch another RIM product ever (used their BB's for 4 years - dreadful 4 years of my life).

falconeight
Dec 17, 2011, 11:29 PM
The playbook isn't junk. It's total crap!! I say that in a nice way. It does nothing that the initial Samsung galaxy tab couldn't do. It actually does less and it has no support. Rim messed up a perfectly good piece of hardware and only die hard rimbots are holding on to it. You pick one up turn it on and ten minutes later you wonder wtf did I just buy.

lsvtecjohn3
Dec 17, 2011, 11:58 PM
RIM isn't dead.

Infact, RIM made $5.4 billion in PROFIT last quarter.


RIM didn't make 5.4 billion dollars in profit last quarter they made 265 million in profit. RIM made 5.2 billion in revenue.

fertilized-egg
Dec 18, 2011, 01:11 AM
It's almost always in the top 10

I don't know if that really means much. Most tablets are pretty underwhelming because Android on tablet right now is subpar and most tablets run Android so it's not really all that hard to be in the top 10.

PlayBook to me has been one of bigger disappointments from this year's crop of tablets. It's pretty well made and the screen looks good but I personally wouldn't recommend it over other tablets. Yes it's smoother than Android but still not iPad smooth, and there's just so little you can do with it. At least Android tablets have all the Android phone apps to play with whereas PlayBook has very little going for it, not to mention the often-mentioned lack of email client.

Blakjack
Dec 18, 2011, 07:46 AM
Rim is on Life Support and the hospital is running out of breathing tubes.

bembol
Dec 18, 2011, 10:29 AM
Shocking with the replies.

I have the 64GB PlayBook. I use it more for Music and Videos, the ADVANTAGE it has over Apple & android is the...

Swipe from the Bezel / True Multitask. By swiping from the top bezel down, it gives me access to my Library uninterrupted while playing any media and switch in an instant.

This feature alone is well worth it IMO.

RANT: I don't get this whole "fanboyism." I see it at every forum, it's sad.

I have an iMac, MacBook Air, iPod touch, hTc EVO 3D and BlackBerry PlayBook. Depending how Boxing Day sales goes, I'm even buying a Windows Notebook!!! LOL

blueroom
Dec 18, 2011, 10:31 AM
Shocking with the replies.


I have the 64GB PlayBook. I use it more for Music and Videos, the ADVANTAGE it has over Apple & android is the...

Swipe from the Bezel / True Multitask. By swiping from the top bezel down, it gives me access to my Library uninterrupted while playing any media and switch in an instant.

This feature alone is well worth it IMO.

How's the app store / selection?

bembol
Dec 18, 2011, 10:38 AM
How's the app store / selection?

It doesn't even come close but I don't care because I don't use Apps.

blueroom
Dec 18, 2011, 11:13 AM
I use apps, I also use AirPlay and recently getting the hang of iTunes Match. I don't have a real need for multitasking on my Tablet.

takeshi74
Dec 18, 2011, 11:21 AM
I'm wondering what opinions are if now, at the significant $199 vs. $499 difference, this overcomes any deficiencies the Playbook had and makes it a cost-effective competitor for basic wi-fi web-browsing needs.
If that's all you need it might be worth considering.

I don't get this whole "fanboyism." I see it at every forum, it's sad.
It's not just the forums. It's everywhere in real life. A lot of people derive their personal sense of worth from the brands (and not just products but other aspects of life as well) for whatever reasons. IMO buying a product is not the accomplishment that fanboys make it out to be.

Further, a lot of people apparently can't see past their own subjectivity. It's either what they prefer/want or the highway as they're concerned. Their loss.

Fry-man22
Dec 18, 2011, 12:46 PM
RIM isn't dead.

Infact, RIM made $5.4 billion in PROFIT last quarter. They expanded their market share in Europe and the middle east.

The Bold continues to do very well and the release of their new Server based business model they will continue to grow and grow.

People saying RIM is dying are probably the same people who were saying Microsoft was dying a few years back.

Just because Apple kicks their butts in commercial sales doesn't mean they are wiping the floor with them. The business markets are much much bigger and more lucrative for these billion dollar companies.

You should let the NY Times know then - they think RIM is in trouble and that they reported ~250 million. This is with a $485 million write off for the playbook losses. They wrote off more than they made last quarter if I'm reading that correctly.

Play book was good hardware when released a year ago, but they are just now pushing software it should have had at launch, the hardware is now outdated and they are indeed in trouble as a company. No one company wants to pay for a BES server when they can use iPhones and droids for the cost they have already spent on exchange.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/business/rims-quarterly-profit-falls-71.html

MrXiro
Dec 18, 2011, 01:07 PM
Shocking with the replies.

I have the 64GB PlayBook. I use it more for Music and Videos, the ADVANTAGE it has over Apple & android is the...

Swipe from the Bezel / True Multitask. By swiping from the top bezel down, it gives me access to my Library uninterrupted while playing any media and switch in an instant.

This feature alone is well worth it IMO.

RANT: I don't get this whole "fanboyism." I see it at every forum, it's sad.

I have an iMac, MacBook Air, iPod touch, hTc EVO 3D and BlackBerry PlayBook. Depending how Boxing Day sales goes, I'm even buying a Windows Notebook!!! LOL

It's bizarre... but people also cheer for their college football team decades after they graduate college... I personally am not "brand loyal" just product loyal... if you make a good product I'll like it. I personally hated the first 4 generations of the iPod because it was completely closed and some were limited to Firewire Only... a port my computers didn't have.

That said... I pretty much have all Apple products now because they all work seamlessly.

But I do think the RIM Playbook is probably not going to survive the Tablet Wars... unless somehow they're making a profit at selling them for 199 either they will pull out of the game or go to a plan B. What they should do is practically give them away to the business market and hook them in with software like they did with the Blackberry.

falconeight
Dec 18, 2011, 10:55 PM
They were talking about this on crack berry but the mods and their inferiority complex closed it.

Nebrie
Dec 18, 2011, 11:16 PM
Time to bring back this blog post written a year ago by someone who knows a thing or two about death spirals, the Director of Mac Platform Marketing back in the 90s.

http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2010/10/whats-really-wrong-with-blackberry-and.html

thekev
Dec 18, 2011, 11:40 PM
Time to bring back this blog post written a year ago by someone who knows a thing or two about death spirals, the Director of Mac Platform Marketing back in the 90s.

http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2010/10/whats-really-wrong-with-blackberry-and.html

Some of it describes where I've been impressed with Apple over the past couple years. Apple has held onto a huge number of developers with the iphone.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping the base loyal. This is transcendently important to a platform company. As your market matures, more and more of your sales will come from replacement devices sold to the installed base. You'll also depend more and more on a base of developers who add value to your products. If you can keep these people happy, you'll have a steady stream of replacement sales that you can build on. It won't be enough to produce the growth that your investors want, but it'll be a great foundation.

-------------------------------------------------------------

3lionsbecks
Dec 19, 2011, 07:56 PM
Time to bring back this blog post written a year ago by someone who knows a thing or two about death spirals, the Director of Mac Platform Marketing back in the 90s.

http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2010/10/whats-really-wrong-with-blackberry-and.html

:(

I have a lot of friends who work for RIM and I would hate for them to lose their jobs.

I really don't see why so many of you seem happy that RIM is doing poorly right now (not Nebrie specifically, but the general tone of many responses here)

It lessens competition in the mobile market which could stifle development all around and worse, I think many of you forget that there are thousands of employees who are real live people that are affected by layoffs and cut backs.

I think in this current climate we would all rally around North American companies and hope they thrive rather than fail.

Mac.World
Dec 19, 2011, 08:18 PM
:(

I have a lot of friends who work for RIM and I would hate for them to lose their jobs.

I really don't see why so many of you seem happy that RIM is doing poorly right now (not Nebrie specifically, but the general tone of many responses here)

It lessens competition in the mobile market which could stifle development all around and worse, I think many of you forget that there are thousands of employees who are real live people that are affected by layoffs and cut backs.

I think in this current climate we would all rally around North American companies and hope they thrive rather than fail.

You would think that a company like RIM would have a board of directors that would have fired those two idiot CEO's by now, instead of letting them drown the company in utter stupidity. RIM hasn't down anything you could call innovative in years. They have been slow to adapt and slow to compete against the likes of Google and Apple.

Just because they are a north American company you believe we should give them a pass and spend money on ***** products, that are overpriced?

RIM needs to take the Steve Jobs handbook for bringing a company out of the depths and making it profitable. First thing is fire those two morons in charge. Second and third is hire someone like Tim Cook to run the company and someone like John Ivy to create your products. Dump all the garbage that doesn't sell and update your core products.

I feel sorry for the people that work at RIM. You can be sure another round of firings is coming next year. Possibly the entire company!

3lionsbecks
Dec 19, 2011, 08:46 PM
Just because they are a north American company you believe we should give them a pass and spend money on ***** products, that are overpriced?

I feel sorry for the people that work at RIM. You can be sure another round of firings is coming next year. Possibly the entire company!

I think you'll notice I never said buy their products, I said Rally behind them and hope they succeed.

If they put out decent products and have positives look to those positives instead of trying to focus solely on the negatives.

I am a big Apple supporter but that doesn't mean I want other companies to go under or people to lose their jobs.

My point is that we shouldn't be happy when a large company fails and we also shouldn't kick people when they're down. A lot of people are jumping all over RIM right now like a bully picking on a weak and injured prey.

Mac.World
Dec 19, 2011, 09:02 PM
I think you'll notice I never said buy their products, I said Rally behind them and hope they succeed.

If they put out decent products and have positives look to those positives instead of trying to focus solely on the negatives.

I am a big Apple supporter but that doesn't mean I want other companies to go under or people to lose their jobs.

My point is that we shouldn't be happy when a large company fails and we also shouldn't kick people when they're down. A lot of people are jumping all over RIM right now like a bully picking on a weak and injured prey.

Didn't say I was happy RIM is failing. Everyone and their mother has been telling RIM to fire the co-CEO's. No one is going to rally around RIM until that is done, first and foremost. My wife used to have a Blackberry since it is easier to type on a keyboard with nails. It was the biggest pos I have ever seen. Shoddy material and craftsmanship, OS was junk, had to use a little push mouse button to navigate, locked up constantly and took an hour to reboot. She finally got rid of it and bought an iPhone.

*LTD*
Dec 19, 2011, 09:20 PM
I think you'll notice I never said buy their products, I said Rally behind them and hope they succeed.

If they put out decent products and have positives look to those positives instead of trying to focus solely on the negatives.

I am a big Apple supporter but that doesn't mean I want other companies to go under or people to lose their jobs.

My point is that we shouldn't be happy when a large company fails and we also shouldn't kick people when they're down. A lot of people are jumping all over RIM right now like a bully picking on a weak and injured prey.

I really don't give a **** about RIM. They exit the industry, someone takes their place. Nor do I hope they fail. I'm just not very sympathetic with idiots who have a clear path to not being one, but don't take it. They've been producing crap, when they didn't have to. Everyone is seeing this, and everyone is scratching their heads over it. And that's the gist of most of my comments about RIM.

RIM needs to either pick up the pace or clear out of the market. And there's really no need for consumers to wait around. Why support an organization that no longer cares to offer you the best of the best, the best of themselves, the best of available technology? And by the looks of it, RIM doesn't even care anymore:

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-16/tech/30523846_1_rim-blackberry-bold-mike-lazaridis

http://www.slashgear.com/rims-blackberry-10-delayed-until-late-2012-hints-at-dual-core-4g-device-15202731/

If they can't survive, then let them go. Falling prey to a leaner, meaner, faster competitor is just the nature of the industry. So let nature take its damn course.

palpatine
Dec 19, 2011, 09:40 PM
I think you'll notice I never said buy their products, I said Rally behind them and hope they succeed.

If they put out decent products and have positives look to those positives instead of trying to focus solely on the negatives.

I am a big Apple supporter but that doesn't mean I want other companies to go under or people to lose their jobs.

My point is that we shouldn't be happy when a large company fails and we also shouldn't kick people when they're down. A lot of people are jumping all over RIM right now like a bully picking on a weak and injured prey.

RIM did this / is doing this to themselves. It's not kicking someone when their down if someone posts here asking if they should spend their money on an outdated, nearly appless, poorly supported OS from a company that is basically walking dead. Investors are dumping stock because RIM has no vision.

Get a Samsung Note or an Asus Prime and join Android in style. Get an iPad 2. Or, wait for an iPad 3. But, don't waste your money on tablets without a future.

The device is fine. I like it well enough. But, we all know there is more to a tablet than hardware, and the OS and app environment are crucial.

nastebu
Dec 19, 2011, 11:08 PM
You should let the NY Times know then - they think RIM is in trouble and that they reported ~250 million. This is with a $485 million write off for the playbook losses. They wrote off more than they made last quarter if I'm reading that correctly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/business/rims-quarterly-profit-falls-71.html

Which goes to the heart of this thread. If the Playbook is a good deal only at a price where RIM loses money selling it, it isn't a platform with a future. Sure, buy the Playbook knowing you're getting cut rate hardware, but understand that you're picking over the bits left over after the bomb went off. The Playbook failed in the market place and is sold at the price it is because RIM wants to cut its losses. What was proven is that this platform cannot compete in the market.

I think you'll notice I never said buy their products, I said Rally behind them and hope they succeed.


What on earth does "rally behind" a company mean if you aren't buying their products? This isn't a sports team. This is a corporation that exists to produce profit. If it cannot do this, there's no reason to cheer, but aside from sympathy for the displaced employees, it's not something to particularly mourn either.

*LTD*
Dec 20, 2011, 07:25 AM
I think you'll notice I never said buy their products, I said Rally behind them and hope they succeed.

For what purpose? Especially when their products don't merit it. "Rallying behind them" and moral support at this point only encourages their half-assing. RIM needs a major shake-up - the kind of wake-up call that comes from the threat of impending collapse, not a pat on the back.

falconeight
Dec 20, 2011, 10:40 AM
:(

I have a lot of friends who work for RIM and I would hate for them to lose their jobs.

I really don't see why so many of you seem happy that RIM is doing poorly right now (not Nebrie specifically, but the general tone of many responses here)

It lessens competition in the mobile market which could stifle development all around and worse, I think many of you forget that there are thousands of employees who are real live people that are affected by layoffs and cut backs.

I think in this current climate we would all rally around North American companies and hope they thrive rather than fail.


People losing jobs sucks but watching a company build the same phones year after year while other are spending money and resources to build a better product makes watching them fail ok in my book. No one likes a cocky person and that's what rim is.

falconeight
Dec 21, 2011, 11:12 AM
Playbook just got angry birds. They are probably giving each other free hummers over on crack berry.
Y

barkomatic
Dec 21, 2011, 02:11 PM
I picked up a Blackberry Playbook because I couldn't resist the fire sale prices. For the price I paid, its an excellent value and I ended up liking it more than I thought I would. I've loaded it with movies and games and the smaller size makes it easy to cart around. I'm running the beta OS and surfing the web is quick and flash works very well. Although I know HTML5 is the future -- certain types of websites that I visit regularly still cling to Flash for now. The screen is great and has a higher PPI then the current iPad--nice and sharp.

That being said, the Playbook is a low cost stop gap measure until the iPad 3 comes out for me-- which I may buy if it gets the retina display. I couldn't justify buying an iPad 2 at the end of its product lifecycle. I'm not going through the hassle of selling an iPad 2 along with the masses when the next version is out.

I can't believe RIM thought they could get away with charging iPad prices for these though. If they had *introduced* the Playbook at the sale prices then I think it would have done very well.

falconeight
Dec 21, 2011, 03:08 PM
I picked up a Blackberry Playbook because I couldn't resist the fire sale prices. For the price I paid, its an excellent value and I ended up liking it more than I thought I would. I've loaded it with movies and games and the smaller size makes it easy to cart around. I'm running the beta OS and surfing the web is quick and flash works very well. Although I know HTML5 is the future -- certain types of websites that I visit regularly still cling to Flash for now. The screen is great and has a higher PPI then the current iPad--nice and sharp.

That being said, the Playbook is a low cost stop gap measure until the iPad 3 comes out for me-- which I may buy if it gets the retina display. I couldn't justify buying an iPad 2 at the end of its product lifecycle. I'm not going through the hassle of selling an iPad 2 along with the masses when the next version is out.

I can't believe RIM thought they could get away with charging iPad prices for these though. If they had *introduced* the Playbook at the sale prices then I think it would have done very well.
It shouldn't have been sold or released without basic tablet functions.

fertilized-egg
Dec 21, 2011, 03:14 PM
I can't believe RIM thought they could get away with charging iPad prices for these though. If they had *introduced* the Playbook at the sale prices then I think it would have done very well.

If they had sold it at the sale price, they would've have lost money because they would've been selling it at loss. Once you start selling it at $200, the market becomes really difficult because people will now consider that to be the "right" price for the product category.

Personally I think 7 inch tablet market as now will be struggling because it'll be difficult to convince users to pay more for their tablets over Nook or Fire. Plus the most fitting role for 7" tablets IMHO is book reading anyway because the screen is a bit too small for tablet-style (e.g: two pane mail) apps and a bit too big for phone-style apps.

davidlw
Dec 22, 2011, 11:35 AM
Playbooks are great machines just no apps. for it. It is like owing a sports car with only 3 wheels. It could be a fantastic machine if RIM had not put that Bridge junk on it and had native email, contacts, and calendar on it. They really missed the boat on this one and it could have been one of the best out there.

jca24
Dec 22, 2011, 11:57 AM
rim is dead

:apple:

pittpanthersfan
Dec 22, 2011, 05:00 PM
If you don't need email, calendaring, contacts, and tons of apps from your tablet, I guess it's a viable alternative.

*LTD*
Dec 22, 2011, 05:04 PM
If you don't need email, calendaring, contacts, and tons of apps from your tablet, I guess it's a viable alternative.

In that case, for about 20 bucks, sure.

stevelam
Dec 29, 2011, 11:47 AM
That being said, the Playbook is a low cost stop gap measure until the iPad 3 comes out for me-- which I may buy if it gets the retina display. I couldn't justify buying an iPad 2 at the end of its product lifecycle. I'm not going through the hassle of selling an iPad 2 along with the masses when the next version is out.

I can't believe RIM thought they could get away with charging iPad prices for these though. If they had *introduced* the Playbook at the sale prices then I think it would have done very well.

yep. i also got a playbook at the firesale price. will use it as a basic tablet until ipad 3 comes out and then its being ditched completely. can't believe how bad this thing is..

gnasher729
Dec 29, 2011, 12:55 PM
RIM isn't dead.

Infact, RIM made $5.4 billion in PROFIT last quarter. They expanded their market share in Europe and the middle east.

Well, they didn't. Here's what I got:

RIM announced its third-quarter earnings today, and it's not a pretty picture. The company reported earnings of $265 million 51 cents per share for the quarter, down 71 percent from $911 million from the same quarter a year ago.


The $5.4 billion dollars is quarterly revenue, and that is about 5% down from the year before.

anfield11
Dec 29, 2011, 01:13 PM
RIM isn't dead.

Infact, RIM made $5.4 billion in PROFIT last quarter. They expanded their market share in Europe and the middle east.

The Bold continues to do very well and the release of their new Server based business model they will continue to grow and grow.

People saying RIM is dying are probably the same people who were saying Microsoft was dying a few years back.

Just because Apple kicks their butts in commercial sales doesn't mean they are wiping the floor with them. The business markets are much much bigger and more lucrative for these billion dollar companies.


No they didn't. Sales were $5.4 billion. Profit was $265 million

SaMaster14
Dec 29, 2011, 01:49 PM
Playbook is a great tablet, RIM just advertised it poorly. Honestly, the PB was just too small for me. But browsing is better than the iPad and it really does have true multitasking like no other device. (one thing that annoys me about iOS is that if I'm on a wep page typing something and I leave the page to go into another app and come back the page will reload sometimes and I'll loose everything I was typing.) obviously the PB will loose in the app game, although it can run android apps.

RIM isn't dead and definitely isn't going out of business. Many companies have huge droughts like RIM is having right now. Even apple did at one point if I'm not mistaken.

stevelam
Dec 29, 2011, 02:44 PM
Playbook is a great tablet, RIM just advertised it poorly. Honestly, the PB was just too small for me. But browsing is better than the iPad and it really does have true multitasking like no other device. (one thing that annoys me about iOS is that if I'm on a wep page typing something and I leave the page to go into another app and come back the page will reload sometimes and I'll loose everything I was typing.) obviously the PB will loose in the app game, although it can run android apps.

RIM isn't dead and definitely isn't going out of business. Many companies have huge droughts like RIM is having right now. Even apple did at one point if I'm not mistaken.

actually, the 'refreshing' page issue is also on the playbook. i assume you probably have to force it into showcase mode to avoid it. not sure as i dont use the playbook browser enough since its buggy as **** and crashes like crazy on beta 2.0 (which i have to be on to use android apps or else this tablet is completely useless).

RIM isn't dead currently, no. but you have to remember that the playbook was supposed to be RIM's big saviour and flagship product that was supposed to lead the way to transition from BB OS to QNX.

obviously it didn't save RIM. if anything, it actually just made it worse as RIMS reputation plummeted massively, cementing the fact that everything RIM keeps trying to release within the past couple of years has been largely underwhelming and consumers generally don't give a crap about them anymore.

yah apple was on a downturn in the past. later on though they released genuine game changers to the market (ipod/iphone/ipad, etc) with much success. you can't say the same about RIM and their attempts right now.

plus, have you seen the new BBX phones? they look SO horrible..

SaMaster14
Dec 29, 2011, 03:24 PM
Who knows. Nobody knew about iPods etc before apple releases them. I'm sure RIM is working on something other than just BB10. IMO they look pretty good as renders. Definitely better looking than most Androids on the market. But who knows. I'm no trying to get into an argument. I'm not a fanboy on the Apple or BB side. I use both, and for me I love apple computers and the iPad, but when it comes to a phone BB wins it for me. Keyboard is amazing, blinking LED that I have color coordinated, universal inbox etc.


EDIT: actually I wouldn't recommend the PB unless you have a Blackberry. The playbook is meant to be used to compliment your Blackberry device. This was a mistake on RIMs part thinking that people wouldn't want to use it as a standalone device. But these issues are supposed to be fixed with the new software when it releases officially.

3lionsbecks
Dec 29, 2011, 08:24 PM
yep. i also got a playbook at the firesale price. will use it as a basic tablet until ipad 3 comes out and then its being ditched completely. can't believe how bad this thing is..

You must be kidding. I have both an iPad and the playbook and you can't tell me that the Playbook is as bad as your post makes it seem.

I only paid $99+Tax for mine so its not like I need to justify my purchase but in all reality it is a good device tbat needs a bit of tweeking to be really good.

stevelam
Dec 30, 2011, 01:40 AM
You must be kidding. I have both an iPad and the playbook and you can't tell me that the Playbook is as bad as your post makes it seem.

I only paid $99+Tax for mine so its not like I need to justify my purchase but in all reality it is a good device tbat needs a bit of tweeking to be really good.

it is as bad as i say it is mainly because i've been spoiled by the ipad. QNX is a nice OS, but thats really about it. horribly implemented with no real support from RIM or 3rd party devs.

basic things i expect a tablet to do:

1) stream media within your LAN
2) act as a PDF reader
3) play back video locally in various codecs
4) have a good audio player at the very least

the playbook in its current state fails at all of this.

1) there is no air video equivalent for the playbook. all it has is Orb (unusable on the playbook due to completely unoptimized UI) and sonic air which i paid for but is incredibly buggy and therefore useless.

2) adobe reader for playbook is singlehandedly the worst pdf reader for any mobile device i've tried. no ability to bookmark? yeesh.

3) at least on the ipad i have a choice of different media players like flex, vlc (before it was removed), aceplayer etc that can play different video formats. the playbook either shows a black screen and/or no sound for a lot of my videos. my ipad plays them just fine. plus the default video player for playbook has the WORST location scrubber ever. its pretty much impossible to scrub to a specific time because it doesnt have the distance-sensitive scrubbing the ipad does. horrible usability.

4) the media player is the worst. no support for mp3 embedded tags. this brings me back to portable mp3 players from the late 90s which didnt have proper tag support either. horrible.

and these are the very BASIC tasks a tablet initially targeted for the high end market should have or at least made available via apps. don't even get me started on the tons of other deficiencies this thing has.

tablo13
Dec 30, 2011, 01:43 AM
I tried out the PlayBook multiple times in different stores. While the UI is gesture based, the device doesn't recognize gestures well. :confused:

Jackintosh
Jan 1, 2012, 08:58 PM
You must be kidding. I have both an iPad and the playbook and you can't tell me that the Playbook is as bad as your post makes it seem.

I only paid $99+Tax for mine so its not like I need to justify my purchase but in all reality it is a good device tbat needs a bit of tweeking to be really good.

The Playbook is pretty bad. It's display is microscopic (you get a headache), gestures are unrecognized half the time, no native email, browser is difficult to use, and everthing just seems haphazard. It does have very good build quality, decent dual cameras, and nice HD camcorder. But this is not enough to overcome the iPad.

I'm amazed over at the Crackberry forum, they talk about ditching their iPads in favor of Playbooks. What universe are they living in?

stevelam
Jan 5, 2012, 02:45 PM
The Playbook is pretty bad. It's display is microscopic (you get a headache), gestures are unrecognized half the time, no native email, browser is difficult to use, and everthing just seems haphazard. It does have very good build quality, decent dual cameras, and nice HD camcorder. But this is not enough to overcome the iPad.

I'm amazed over at the Crackberry forum, they talk about ditching their iPads in favor of Playbooks. What universe are they living in?

obviously its RIM biased, but crackberry is by far the worst forum for blatant fanboyism. people are banned left and right for saying anything critical about the playbook. they excuse pretty much EVERY fault on the playbook and basically circle jerk each other off in a desperate attempt to feel good about buying one of the worst tech gadgets of 2011.

*LTD*
Jan 5, 2012, 02:55 PM
You must be kidding. I have both an iPad and the playbook and you can't tell me that the Playbook is as bad as your post makes it seem.

Oh it's bad. Bad enough for this:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mobiledia/2012/01/04/rim-to-oust-ceos-report-says/

Though the PlayBook is just one piece of this sad puzzle.

Dhelsdon
Jan 5, 2012, 03:04 PM
I got the displeasure of using one through work for a product demo through Bell. I cannot even begin to describe how awful the playbook was. They gave us an iPad 2 and a Playbook, I used the playbook first (I own an iPad 2) and I was so disappointed. I found it to be very sluggish and like any blackberry device, slow to power on or off.

I am glad I had the experience of using it, but I would NEVER recommend it to anyone..

3lionsbecks
Jan 5, 2012, 09:14 PM
ha ha...you guys make me laugh.

Hey what ever works for you and makes you feel better. I like the iPad a lot. I like Apple products a lot. Look at how many i own and enjoy.

That doesn't make me blind to the truth. Its a shame that you guys feel the need to trash on a product to make yourself feel superior. What you guys are saying about the playbook is just not true.

But if you want to believe it thats cool.

nfl46
Jan 5, 2012, 09:33 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

iPad > PB; however, if you can get the PB for $249 or cheaper, then PB > iPad. Sorry, but if I can save nearly $250, then I will. If both are the same price of $499, then of course I'm getting the iPad without a doubt!! Overall, the iPad is much better if price is not a factor.

vanforum
Jul 10, 2012, 09:13 AM
Any news on playbook since last time that makes it worth buying?

jmpnop
Jul 10, 2012, 09:24 AM
The refurb iPad 2 comes with new battery and outer shell. The 16GB model for $319 is a much better deal than Playbook.

barkomatic
Jul 10, 2012, 11:03 AM
Any news on playbook since last time that makes it worth buying?

The Playbook was a good deal 7 months ago right after its dramatic price drop but there are much better options now.

At this point I'd go with a low cost tablet such as a Nexus 7 or the refurb iPad 2 that jmpnop suggested.

scaredpoet
Jul 10, 2012, 04:39 PM
I think ongoing support should also be a consideration. Right now, I would really be worried about RIM's future, and that could mean having an orphaned device if you buy a Playbook today.

This might not've been a big deal for those buying say, an HP Touchpad, but the price was WAY cheaper during the Touchpad fire sale, and the TouchPad didn't rely so much on there being a proprietary infrastructure behind it. RIM's products require RIM to have its backbone up and running to work as intended. That includes RIM's killer app: e-mail (which the PlayBook finally has).

Those who down voted posts about RIM being a "dead company walking" back when this thread began, it's just a bit harder now to ignore that likelihood: A net loss of $518 million, layoffs happening, and talks of "assessing strategic options." Like it or not, smartphone buyers have pretty much spoken. And RIM's whole business model is built on dominating the marketplace, something it simply doesn't do anymore.

ucfgrad93
Jul 10, 2012, 06:15 PM
I always thought that the Playbook had outstanding hardware. It is a great device. Unfortunately, the software was abysmally bad. While it has gotten better, I would rather have the Nexus 7 or one of the 7" Samsung tablets than the Playbook.

saberahul
Jul 10, 2012, 07:01 PM
I always thought that the Playbook had outstanding hardware. It is a great device. Unfortunately, the software was abysmally bad. While it has gotten better, I would rather have the Nexus 7 or one of the 7" Samsung tablets than the Playbook.

Yup, exactly why i said one works, one doesn't. I used BB for over 5 years and a playbook for over a month and its always the same deal: great hardware, crap software.

gnasher729
Jul 10, 2012, 07:40 PM
In anycase, even if RIM did go under in the next 5 years (with overall world market share increasing each year including this past year I can't see how it would before even 5 years from now) but if it does, as long as this BBX 2.0 update comes out in feb. it would be worth it to buy a playbook.

I suggest we revive this thread every six months until Dec. 2016 and check if RIM is still there.

Fruit Cake
Jul 10, 2012, 11:29 PM
I've been getting some use out of mine, namely thanks to the geeks at crack berry, I've got my laptop setup to convert apk files to bar files and grab android apps. Now I can stream video with es file explorer and with the current beta OS, I can run multiple instances of android apps as well.

Add the fact it's the best movie device capable of playing flash, and it's not a bad little device. Out of the box though, it's rubbish, unless you have a blackberry phone.

lsvtecjohn3
Oct 9, 2012, 12:59 AM
I forgot all about the playbook.... You don't hear any tech sites ever talk about it. I don't think I've ever seen one, out in the wild.

EmaDaCuz
Oct 9, 2012, 05:57 AM
The 64GB Playbook at 129 pounds is a no brainer purchase. Well, it would be but the absence of Skype is really keeping me off this lovely machine.

MonkeySee....
Oct 9, 2012, 06:00 AM
The 64GB Playbook at 129 pounds is a no brainer purchase. Well, it would be but the absence of Skype is really keeping me off this lovely machine.

There are reasons why cheap things are cheap.

EmaDaCuz
Oct 9, 2012, 06:20 AM
There are reasons why cheap things are cheap.

I don't agree. The Playbook is an awesome machine and I would not be so critical. Hardware and building quality are way above average and the OS is pretty nice too. Native apps are simply amazing and now it is also possible to run Android apps. It is really the perfect tablet, at least IMVHO. However, as i said before, the lack of an official Skype app to me looks like a major minus. RIM is pushing its Playbook-to-Playbook messaging system. It works flawlessy, much better than iMessage and/or Facetime, but it is limited, of cours, to just a few people who own a Playbook.

MonkeySee....
Oct 9, 2012, 06:54 AM
I don't agree. The Playbook is an awesome machine and I would not be so critical. Hardware and building quality are way above average and the OS is pretty nice too. Native apps are simply amazing and now it is also possible to run Android apps. It is really the perfect tablet, at least IMVHO. However, as i said before, the lack of an official Skype app to me looks like a major minus. RIM is pushing its Playbook-to-Playbook messaging system. It works flawlessy, much better than iMessage and/or Facetime, but it is limited, of cours, to just a few people who own a Playbook.

The Playbook didn't even come with a Email App installed. :confused:

EmaDaCuz
Oct 9, 2012, 11:29 AM
The first version of the OS was crap, I agree with you. Lots of apps missing, lagging here and there, frequent crashes and/or freezing. The current version (well, not really the current which came out 4 days ago) is surprisingly good. Smooth, nice looking, very organised, nice amount of stock apps.
I wait to see if Apple is releasing an iPad Mini at a decent price tag. If one of the two conditions are not there -and I think it will be the price tag- I will just get myself a Playbook.

Kissaragi
Oct 9, 2012, 03:42 PM
You can get a nexus 7 for 159. Seems like a wiser purchase to me.

jackattack519
Oct 9, 2012, 07:41 PM
But ipads are no better:)

EmaDaCuz
Oct 10, 2012, 02:35 AM
You can get a nexus 7 for 159. Seems like a wiser purchase to me.

Which Nexus 7? I couldn't find it any cheaper than 199. Unless you are referring to the small capacity one. But then, a 16 GB Playbook is 109...

3lionsbecks
Nov 18, 2012, 09:17 PM
I suggest we revive this thread every six months until Dec. 2016 and check if RIM is still there.

still there

Ffosse
Nov 30, 2012, 10:37 AM
The Playbook is a P.O.S.

It wasn't any good 2 years ago and it's worthless now.