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iFanboy
Dec 17, 2011, 12:00 PM
Just had a really strange error when I turned booted into Lion - something about the system clock being set pre Jan 2008 which can cause programs to behave "erratically".

I selected ok whatever and the clock was spot on, not pre 2008 at all?

I googled the problem and there were a bunch of answers about repairing disk permissions. So I did and there were about 10 entries that needed "fixing".

I did a full reinstall a week ago....? Is this normal? Is repairing permissions something that should be done regularly?

How often do you do it?



GGJstudios
Dec 17, 2011, 12:10 PM
I googled the problem and there were a bunch of answers about repairing disk permissions. So I did and there were about 10 entries that needed "fixing".

I did a full reinstall a week ago....? Is this normal? Is repairing permissions something that should be done regularly?
No, you don't need to do it regularly. Many people suggest it when it isn't appropriate.

Repairing permissions: What you need to know (http://www.macworld.com/article/52220/2006/08/repairpermissions.html)

iFanboy
Dec 17, 2011, 01:35 PM
No, you don't need to do it regularly. Many people suggest it when it isn't appropriate.

Repairing permissions: What you need to know (http://www.macworld.com/article/52220/2006/08/repairpermissions.html)

Thanks! That was a very informative article!

Does it still apply for Lion?

lotones
Dec 17, 2011, 02:06 PM
I've installed Lion a couple times on a couple iMacs, and I've needed to repair permissions each time to quash bugs... icons not drawing, spaces acting weird, etc.

Other than that I generally repair permissions if random weirdness starts popping up, which hasn't happened much at all since 10.7.2.

GGJstudios
Dec 17, 2011, 02:08 PM
Thanks! That was a very informative article!

Does it still apply for Lion?

Yes, it does.

Michaelgtrusa
Dec 17, 2011, 03:09 PM
Every two days for me.

GGJstudios
Dec 17, 2011, 03:37 PM
Every two days for me.
You're kidding, right?

Nameci
Dec 17, 2011, 06:06 PM
Only once after I have installed Lion...

Michaelgtrusa
Dec 18, 2011, 03:10 AM
You're kidding, right?



No. Tip from a long term mac user.

iFanboy
Dec 18, 2011, 05:01 AM
No. Tip from a long term mac user.

Can doing it, or doing it to often cause problems?

Michaelgtrusa
Dec 18, 2011, 05:02 AM
Can doing it, or doing it to often cause problems?



Not that i'm aware of.

Weaselboy
Dec 18, 2011, 07:15 AM
Every two days for me.

Why are you doing this? Just curious.

I normally run it only after an OS X version update.

Kceb83
Dec 18, 2011, 07:29 AM
I use cocktail for Mac. It is scheduled daily to repair disc permissions. I have done this for a very long time and never have issues with my macs. I guess a lot of it is preference. I am anal about keeping my computer organized and running well so I probably do it in excess. I think weekly would be more than adequate or if you start to notice weird bugs popping up.

ljonesj
Dec 18, 2011, 07:46 AM
i use disk repair when my monitors fail to sleep which in turn is when my screen saver quits coming on when i do repair it all works again

GGJstudios
Dec 18, 2011, 10:22 AM
No. Tip from a long term mac user.
"Long term mac user" doesn't necessarily mean that they know what they're talking about. For those who repair permissions frequently - or recommend that others do so - I encourage you to read the link I posted in post #2 of this thread. It's an older article, but the facts and principles remain the same. There are times when it's appropriate and specific issues it addresses. There are times when it's a wasted exercise. Blindly doing it on a regular basis isn't helping your system.

isoMorpheus
Dec 18, 2011, 11:44 PM
I do it every few days, to keep the list pristine. I have not one permission problem.

Michaelgtrusa
Dec 19, 2011, 02:04 AM
Why are you doing this? Just curious.

I normally run it only after an OS X version update.

I'm always updating apps etc.

iSaint
Dec 19, 2011, 02:07 AM
I verify permissions then run repair permissions after any software update.

lotones
Dec 19, 2011, 02:14 AM
Thanks! That was a very informative article!

Does it still apply for Lion?

Yes, it does.

GGJstudios, are you sure this still applies to Lion? The article you linked to is from 2006, about 10.4 Tiger. A hell of a lot has changed in OS X since then.

My own experience says permission repair is almost necessary after installing Lion. Regular permission repair may not be needed, for me Lion was almost unusable until I ran Disk Utility. My experience isn't unique:

OS X - I Suggest Repairing Permissions After Installing Lion (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26113298-OS-X-I-Suggest-Repairing-Permissions-After-Installing-Lion)

Here it is recommended to repair permissions after a clean install or upgrade to Lion:

OS X Lion Fixes and Tips (http://davechapfilms.com/os-x-lion-fixes-and-tips)

I've also been told the Repair Permissions tool in Lion has been much improved. I think it may be time to reconsider your article from 2006.

imho, a lot of the bitching and moaning about Lion could be avoided if people would do two things: disable potentially incompatible utilities before installing/upgrading to Lion, and repair permissions after installing/upgrading. Simple, but effective.

edit: actually, a third remedy for the Lion-phobic would be to learn how to turn off or change the features you don't like. If I have to hear another person complain about reverse scrolling... :-O

MisterMe
Dec 19, 2011, 09:27 AM
...

I've also been told the Repair Permissions tool in Lion has been much improved. I think it may be time to reconsider your article from 2006.

...If anything, you have it backwards. Apple continually improves the "no fuss-no muss" nature of its OS. As for repairing permissions, it is a relatively simple process that would be difficult to improve upon between 2006 and now:

Within the Library folder, there is a folder called Receipts. Each installed software package has a .pkg bundle installed there. Each receipt serves two purposes:

It tells the OS that the software has been installed (and does not need to be reinstalled).
It mirrors the correct file structure and permissions of the installed package.
When you repair permissions, the OS resets the permissions to those of the receipt bundle. There is not much that can be done to improve permissions repair because not much can be done to improve an anvil.

Permissions repair is one of those things that people glommed onto in the early days of MacOS X because they had no better idea what to do to satisfy their placebo fix.

Since Apple added journaling to HFS+, permissions are rarely changed negatively. And by the way, permissions repair is one of the actions taken when the OS is updated or new applications installed.

GGJstudios
Dec 19, 2011, 10:09 AM
My own experience says permission repair is almost necessary after installing Lion. Regular permission repair may not be needed, for me Lion was almost unusable until I ran Disk Utility.
It's the regular or frequent permissions repair that I'm referring to, not doing so after an OS upgrade or similar process. Repairing permissions daily, weekly, etc. when there aren't specific problems that are addressed by that process is a wasted effort.

KnightWRX
Dec 19, 2011, 10:24 AM
I never repair permissions. If something is broken with the permissions, I usually just chown/chmod it to the correct permissions on a per item basis.

I wouldn't trust an automated tool to do something like set ACLs properly anyway.

Joos24
Dec 19, 2011, 11:56 AM
I never repair permissions. If something is broken with the permissions, I usually just chown/chmod it to the correct permissions on a per item basis.

I wouldn't trust an automated tool to do something like set ACLs properly anyway.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more. :p Why trust a tool that Apple designs for their own operating system that they design as well. Heavens no, the repair permissions tool just might cause the computer to explode. :rolleyes:

On a different note, Apple has seriously upgraded the power of the Repair Permissions tool in Lion. They have made a point of it as a new feature. I know in previous versions of OS X such as Snow Leopard it didn't do much and when it did do something OS X still didn't run optimally.

Frankie4Fingers
Dec 19, 2011, 12:00 PM
In 3 years I've only done it once... when I installed an SSD and cloned my old drive to it.

Mattie Num Nums
Dec 19, 2011, 12:02 PM
Repairing permissions is one of the most overused thing in OSX. Repairing permissions can sometimes cause more problems then good.

lotones
Dec 19, 2011, 12:32 PM
If anything, you have it backwards. Apple continually improves the "no fuss-no muss" nature of its OS. As for repairing permissions, it is a relatively simple process that would be difficult to improve upon between 2006 and now:

Within the Library folder, there is a folder called Receipts. Each installed software package has a .pkg bundle installed there. Each receipt serves two purposes:

It tells the OS that the software has been installed (and does not need to be reinstalled).
It mirrors the correct file structure and permissions of the installed package.
When you repair permissions, the OS resets the permissions to those of the receipt bundle. There is not much that can be done to improve permissions repair because not much can be done to improve an anvil.

Permissions repair is one of those things that people glommed onto in the early days of MacOS X because they had no better idea what to do to satisfy their placebo fix.

Since Apple added journaling to HFS+, permissions are rarely changed negatively. And by the way, permissions repair is one of the actions taken when the OS is updated or new applications installed.

Thanks for the knowledge. I understand most of that, but I still prefer to think of it as "magic". Something goes wonky, I press the "repair permissions" button and 'poof'... it's fixed! Or not... :rolleyes:

btw, I found this the other night as I was stumbling around the internet:

Want to really Repair Permissions on your Mac? Try this. (http://blog.chron.com/techblog/2011/09/want-to-really-repair-permissions-on-your-mac-try-this/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Ftechblogfulltext+%28TechBlog+-+Full+Text%29)

Apparently there’s another Repair Permissions tool hidden away in Lion that will actually repair the permission settings on folders and files in your Home folder. I don't know if this is a feature that used to be un-hidden in previous OS versions, or the "much improved" Repair Permissions tool I was told about. But it does appear things are changing/evolving in this area.

----------

Repairing permissions can sometimes cause more problems then good.

How so? Not doubting, but I've heard this said before and I'm curious.

Mattie Num Nums
Dec 19, 2011, 01:08 PM
Thanks for the knowledge. I understand most of that, but I still prefer to think of it as "magic". Something goes wonky, I press the "repair permissions" button and 'poof'... it's fixed! Or not... :rolleyes:

btw, I found this the other night as I was stumbling around the internet:

Want to really Repair Permissions on your Mac? Try this. (http://blog.chron.com/techblog/2011/09/want-to-really-repair-permissions-on-your-mac-try-this/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Ftechblogfulltext+%28TechBlog+-+Full+Text%29)

Apparently there’s another Repair Permissions tool hidden away in Lion that will actually repair the permission settings on folders and files in your Home folder. I don't know if this is a feature that used to be un-hidden in previous OS versions, or the "much improved" Repair Permissions tool I was told about. But it does appear things are changing/evolving in this area.

----------



How so? Not doubting, but I've heard this said before and I'm curious.

It only repairs the permissions of installers with receipts. By just arbitrarily repairing permissions you could be re changing permissions that were purposely changed.

MisterMe
Dec 19, 2011, 02:46 PM
...

Apparently there’s another Repair Permissions tool hidden away in Lion that will actually repair the permission settings on folders and files in your Home folder. I don't know if this is a feature that used to be un-hidden in previous OS versions, or the "much improved" Repair Permissions tool I was told about. But it does appear things are changing/evolving in this area....It never ceases to amaze me that people post links to things that they either don't read or don't understand if they do read. If you had read the reader responses that follow the article, then you would know that the home directory repair tool is not new. You would also know that it is an emergency tool for trained technicians. It is not a routine maintenance tool for untrained users.

OneMike
Dec 19, 2011, 02:49 PM
I only repair them, when I have reason to which is at most a 2-3 times per year.

Mattie Num Nums
Dec 19, 2011, 02:57 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that people post links to things that they either don't read or don't understand if they do read. If you had read the reader responses that follow the article, then you would know that the home directory repair tool is not new. You would also know that it is an emergency tool for trained technicians. It is not a routine maintenance tool for untrained users.

Exactly. Apps change perms on the fly and just resetting everything could cause havoc on the system.

iFanboy
Dec 19, 2011, 03:57 PM
Repairing permissions can sometimes cause more problems then good.

How so? I'd be interested in learning this as I have not found any information to suggest it has the potential to cause problems?

lotones
Dec 19, 2011, 04:47 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that people post links to things that they either don't read or don't understand if they do read. If you had read the reader responses that follow the article, then you would know that the home directory repair tool is not new. You would also know that it is an emergency tool for trained technicians. It is not a routine maintenance tool for untrained users.

So I didn't "read or understand" the article because I didn't read all 27 responses in the comments section? It so happens I was looking for something else when I stumbled across that article. I read the article and moved on. Excuse me for passing on information. And I never claimed it was a "routine maintenance tool".

It never ceases to amaze me that people post snark based on lame assumptions and statements never made.

Mattie Num Nums
Dec 19, 2011, 04:50 PM
How so? I'd be interested in learning this as I have not found any information to suggest it has the potential to cause problems?

Certain programs are not excluded from the "Repair Permissions" run so Apples intention of keeping its permissions clean could in fact change permissions that a third party program changed for a reason. The issue is Repairing Permissions is not an end all be all, should not be the first thing done to troubleshoot, and should not be done regularly. It should however be a part of your basic troubleshooting steps.

GGJstudios
Dec 19, 2011, 05:08 PM
Certain programs are not excluded from the "Repair Permissions" run so Apples intention of keeping its permissions clean could in fact change permissions that a third party program changed for a reason.
From the link I posted earlier:
Are all files affected by Repair Disk Permissions?
No. As you may have inferred from the above description, only those files installed using OS X’s Installer utility and whose installation packages leave behind a proper receipt in /Library/Receipts are affected by the Repair Disk Permissions function. This means that most of the files affected by the Repair Disk Permissions function are system-level files, application files, or system add-ons—not applications installed by drag-and-drop, and not your documents or other user-level files.
And from: About Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions feature (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1452):

Does Disk Utility check permissions on all files?

Files that aren't installed as part of an Apple-originated installer package are not listed in a receipt and therefore are not checked. For example, if you install an application using a non-Apple installer application, or by copying it from a disk image, network volume, or other disk instead of installing it via Installer, a receipt file isn't created. This is expected. Some applications are designed to be installed in one of those ways.

Also, certain files whose permissions can be changed during normal usage without affecting their function are intentionally not checked.

Michaelgtrusa
Dec 19, 2011, 05:25 PM
Repairing permissions is one of the most overused thing in OSX. Repairing permissions can sometimes cause more problems then good.



Really? How's that?

MisterMe
Dec 19, 2011, 06:18 PM
So I didn't "read or understand" the article because I didn't read all 27 responses in the comments section? It so happens I was looking for something else when I stumbled across that article. I read the article and moved on. Excuse me for passing on information. And I never claimed it was a "routine maintenance tool".

It never ceases to amaze me that people post snark based on lame assumptions and statements never made.You posted a link to a column on a newspaper's website. The author is a user--more conversant with Mac issues than you--but not more qualified to explain MacOS X than many of the members of this forum. He is not more qualified than the readers who responded to him. The difference between him and them--between him and us--is that he has a job with a newspaper but most of us do not.

Having said that, the readers clarified questions left unanswered by the column. Make no mistake. Nowhere do I say that you are responsible for what the author wrote. You are also not responsible for what the readers wrote. However, you are responsible for what you wrote. When you presented the column as an authority in support of your assertion that permissions repair is an evolving task, you doubled-down on the assertion. To your great regret, you were mistaken. Your regrets could have been avoided if you had taken the time to do additional research before posting.

lotones
Dec 19, 2011, 07:03 PM
You posted a link to a column on a newspaper's website. The author is a user--more conversant with Mac issues than you--but not more qualified to explain MacOS X than many of the members of this forum. He is not more qualified than the readers who responded to him. The difference between him and them--between him and us--is that he has a job with a newspaper but most of us do not.

Having said that, the readers clarified questions left unanswered by the column. Make no mistake. Nowhere do I say that you are responsible for what the author wrote. You are also not responsible for what the readers wrote. However, you are responsible for what you wrote. When you presented the column as an authority in support of your assertion that permissions repair is an evolving task, you doubled-down on the assertion. To your great regret, you were mistaken. Your regrets could have been avoided if you had taken the time to do additional research before posting.

a. I offered the link as information I thought was relevant to the conversation. I wasn't asserting any point of view. The part where I wrote "I don't know if this is a feature that used to be un-hidden in previous OS versions, or the "much improved" Repair Permissions tool I was told about.", or the part where I thanked you for the passing along the information of your previous post, might have clued you into that fact if you weren't so ready to snark.

b. I have no "regrets" about my post, nor my possibly mistaken conclusion. I have just as much right to be wrong on the internet as anyone else. And seeing how I had already qualified my alleged "assertion", any "regrets" should be yours. All you had to do is point out the relevant information in the comments section, as per normal civil conversation. The snark was unnecessary and unappreciated. The only "regrets" I may have is the time wasted engaging you in this bemusing conversation.

c. Just because this happened not to be a new feature, that doesn't mean the repair permission feature hasn't evolved since 2006.

KnightWRX
Dec 19, 2011, 08:10 PM
Absolutely, couldn't agree more. :p Why trust a tool that Apple designs for their own operating system that they design as well. Heavens no, the repair permissions tool just might cause the computer to explode. :rolleyes:

Yes, because 3rd party receipt files cannot ever cause any problems because Apple made such a splendid tool right ?

Again, I'll just repair permissions myself with chown/chmod if I discover any permission problems. Frankly, a lot of you need a course on how ACLs work and what they are for.

----------


Apparently there’s another Repair Permissions tool hidden away in Lion that will actually repair the permission settings on folders and files in your Home folder.

Hum.. it's been there since day one in OS X :

$ id | xargs -n 1 echo | egrep "^uid|^gid" | cut -d \( -f 2 | sed 's/)$//g' | xargs echo | sed 's/\ /:/g' | xargs -I{} echo sudo chown -R {} $HOME

Just copy paste the output of this command and your home folder will be good as new. ;)

(alternatively, you could simply figure out the arguments manually, they aren't hard at all. Simply : your unix user name, :, your unix group and finally your home folder).

Again folks, this is Unix, not magic.

----------

Really? How's that?

What if a Receipt file points to the wrong set of files ? What if permissions were changed on purpose on a set of files to prevent access to a group/user and the receipt file resets them ?

What if the Receipt files were tampered with to open up access to a malicious user ?

List. Endless.

tkermit
Dec 19, 2011, 08:29 PM
I do it every few days, to keep the list pristine. I have not one permission problem.

Which would probably be the case even if you never repaired permissions (like I do) – No issues here, except for the usual (http://support.apple.com/kb/ts1448) warnings of course.

Warning: SUID file “System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent” has been modified and will not be repaired.

isoMorpheus
Dec 19, 2011, 09:03 PM
Which would probably be the case even if you never repaired permissions (like I do) – No issues here, except for the usual (http://support.apple.com/kb/ts1448) warnings of course.

I've caught a few that's sprung up for reasons I'm not sure of and have successfully killed them before they start pilling on top of each other, which tendency is part of my conspiratory worry without any evidence. It does make me feel better about my Macintosh's health.

calderone
Dec 19, 2011, 09:18 PM
I wrote a script that runs it every hour, my Mac runs so good. ZOMG! No permissions problems here! I am super paranoid about my permissions!

Why you tell me I has no permission to do what I wants to this file!? I run

sudo chown -R myuser /; chmod -R u+rwx /

Computer no tell me I has no permission to do what I wants!!!! I WIN!

Mattie Num Nums
Dec 19, 2011, 10:32 PM
From the link I posted earlier:

And from: About Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions feature (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1452):

Some install write those files and are effected. Anyone remember the constantly broken Epson files?