Intel's Mac Mini Look-Alike

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Wired Magazine (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,67664,00.html?tw=rss.TEK) is reporting that a new Wintel prototype that copies the Mac Mini design is due out this week.

Working prototypes of the Mac mini look-alike running Microsoft Windows and based on Intel's Pentium M CPU have already been built by Taiwan-based PC maker AOpen, according to two sources in Taiwan's PC manufacturing industry who have seen them.

According to the article, the prototype was built at the request of Intel and will be unveiled at the Computex trade show which starts on May 31st.

Wired comments that several companies already offer similar PCs but feels that the Mini offers a more attractive package at a lower cost.

[sjpetry]

I bet it'll look horrible. They never make good rip offs. ;)

Plus, it has Windose. :rolleyes: :p

[PCMacUser]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Wired Magazine (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,67664,00.html?tw=rss.TEK) is reporting that a new Wintel prototype that copies the Mac Mini design is due out this week.
Let's see if it's really a copy, or simply another small form factor PC - something that's been around LONG before Mac Minis ever were...

[poundsmack]

yay a new QNX machine for me

[Mr. G4]

Let's see if it's really a copy, or simply another small form factor PC - something that's been around LONG before Mac Minis ever were...

Yet after the Cube came out...history repeating itself over gain.

[mcadam]

Let's see if it's really a copy, or simply another small form factor PC - something that's been around LONG before Mac Minis ever were...

yeah, who cares - there's thousands of different designs of funny/weird/flashy/whatever pc's on the out there. The only reason this one is getting attenton is because it claims to be copying the mini.

A

[dejo]

I wonder if this is the same small-factor PC they showed off in early March:

Intel's concept PC apes Apple (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,39020351,39189919,00.htm)

[James Philp]

zzzzz zzzzz zzzzz
How many threads have there been on companies trying to out-do Apple design!? It almost never even looks nearly as good as the Apple version, and if it does, it's usually a direct copy of the Apple product, and in line for legal proceedings!
Companies should stop trying to copy Apple, hire some good product designers, and come up with beautiful designs for themselves!

I wonder if this is the same small-factor PC they showed off in early March:

Intel's concept PC apes Apple

If it is, they have managed to make it look damn ugly!
Good spot dejo.

[poundsmack]

I wonder if this is the same small-factor PC they showed off in early March:

Intel's concept PC apes Apple (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,39020351,39189919,00.htm)

eww thats ugly

[jwhitnah]

I guess this means the mini is an incredible success.

[mkrishnan]

I wonder if this is the same small-factor PC they showed off in early March:

Intel's concept PC apes Apple (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,39020351,39189919,00.htm)

Yeah...I think that was just a mock-up. Maybe this is a real working version of the same?

[poundsmack]

i really hope these use the 65mn pentium M's, that would be really really cool, it would be a good low power PC. now that intel's Pentium M has a real rival. http://www.viatech.com/en/products/processors/c7/

[redAPPLE]

"The PC is more powerful and popular than Apple systems because of its open architecture -- you can upgrade it. When the PC gets similar to the Mac mini, you have no space to upgrade, and you will lose this advantage," he said.

does he mean open to spyware, viruses & other siht?

i think Confucius has said this already before, "When the PC gets similar to the Mac mini, you have no space to upgrade..." what a very wise guy this ken huang is. :cool:

[PCMacUser]

I wonder if this is the same small-factor PC they showed off in early March:

Intel's concept PC apes Apple (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,39020351,39189919,00.htm)
That's revolting!

[taeclee99]

The only "mini" pc I would ever get it this one: The i8600 from Shuttle.

[puckhead193]

why does everyone try and copy apple, why doesn't apple get their lawyers on top of these things and not sue people over rumors. :p ;) :rolleyes:

[Paul O'Keefe]

I think it's great that computer manufactures will be looking at smaller form factors... that are hopefully quite too.

Seriously, it's a good thing for the PC world to embrace the mini paradigm. PCs will become true appliances now, like toasters, plones, kettles. If they do become more disposable, at least now they won't use up as much materials.

[~Shard~]

The only "mini" pc I would ever get it this one: The i8600 from Shuttle.

Yikes, that looks horrible compared to a Mini and has to be what, 2 times the size and 3 times the weight?

I'm not worried in the least about these copycats. We've seen it over and over with the iPod - supposed "iPod Killers" keep getting released, yet look who always ends up on top. I'm sure this will be similar - no one will be able to better Apple's creation.

It's cool to know they're copying the Mini design though - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :cool:

[brap]

Yikes, that looks horrible compared to a Mini and has to be what, 2 times the size and 3 times the weight?Trade-off with desktop [read: cheaper] components & upgradeability.

[mvc]

I'm afraid Intel copying Apple is like a fat girl doing ballet - making the same moves does not mean you have the same style. :cool:

[Panoctopi]

great idea except it lacks style and doesn't run os x. oh well another **** box.

[jimsowden]

I'm afraid Intel copying Apple is like a fat girl doing ballet - making the same moves does not mean you have the same style. :cool:
Truer words have never been spoken in this forum.

[ham_man]

I'm afraid Intel copying Apple is like a fat girl doing ballet - making the same moves does not mean you have the same style. :cool:
ROTFLMFAO...so true so true...

Great analogy mvc...

[tkid]

I wonder if this is the same small-factor PC they showed off in early March:

Intel's concept PC apes Apple (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,39020351,39189919,00.htm)

It looks like a granite... park bench.... with a remaining slab leaning on it.

[poundsmack]

I'm afraid Intel copying Apple is like a fat girl doing ballet - making the same moves does not mean you have the same style. :cool:

you just made my whole day :D

i think they are saying its a mini copy the publicity it will get for being a mini copy, i bet it is just a mini itx pc

[mvc]

Truer words have never been spoken in this forum.
...and you can substitute Microsoft for Intel in that sentence and its still the same result.

Unfortunately, only about 3% of the population seem to care enough about style to actually buy a Mac.

But that's probably still more than care about ballet :p

[DakotaGuy]

The only "mini" pc I would ever get it this one: The i8600 from Shuttle.

We have a whole lab of Shuttle's over at the school. Actually bought the Shuttle cases, slightly smaller then what you have, and the our Tech Coordinator built them. They are all silver. The only bad thing is they run Windows, otherwise they are really nice little compact computers for a computer lab where space in an issue.

[iPlm]

Copying Apple aye? Those shameless Intel guys...

The mac mini is 499$, windows costs really much, so they'll have to put Intel's Pentium 3 with 15GB HDD and 128MB RAM to mach this price ;)

But the whole idea Intel and product design is kinda weird to me. :p

[Frisco]

And to think Apple didn't even start advertising (tv) the mini yet :eek:

It would be funny if Intels beat Apple at advertising the "mini." People will think Apple copied!

Now we know about what Apple and Intel were talking about last week :p

[~Shard~]

Trade-off with desktop [read: cheaper] components & upgradeability.

Fair enough, makes sense I guess.

[aegisdesign]

The only PC boxes that have got close to the Mac Mini are the nano-ITX based boxes like the wonderfully overdesigned solid aluminium Hoojum Nanode which was to use the yet to ship VIA Eden-N boards. Maybe those will never ship though what with the VIA C7 announcement. They've been 'about to ship' for way over a year.

http://hoojum.com/gallery/slideshow.php?set_albumName=nanode

Intel will be going some to even get the Pentium M cool enough in a case the size of the mini or Nanode.

The mini-ITX boxes over twice the size due to using normal sized PCI/AGP cards, large desktop processors, built in PSUs with fans and the almost ubiquitous nest of stupid legacy connectors PC manufacturers in Taiwan seem to think we still need.

[Sonofhaig]

Do these guys ever have an original idea? I mean really..... :rolleyes:

[sushi]

why does everyone try and copy apple, why doesn't apple get their lawyers on top of these things and not sue people over rumors. :p ;) :rolleyes:
FWIW, Apple is not the first to offer a small PC like the Mac Mini.

For years, there has been some small PCs bascially the size of a CD-RW Drive, only a little longer.

Apple just packaged their concept very nicely.

Edit: For example:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000690024275/

Sushi

[LethalWolfe]

FWIW, Apple is not the first to offer a small PC like the Mac Mini.


And before the Mac Mini there was the Cube.


Lethal

[~Shard~]

FWIW, Apple is not the first to offer a small PC like the Mac Mini.

For years, there has been some small PCs bascially the size of a CD-RW Drive, only a little longer.

Apple just packaged their concept very nicely.

Sushi

Exactly, thanks for that Sushi. It's just like the people who say that MS ripped off Apple's OS back in the day. But we won't get into the whole Xerox discussion, now will we? ;)

[javiercr]

everybody has the right to make small computers, but this isn't going to run Macosx so we shouldn't care in this forum

[Mr. G4]

FWIW, Apple is not the first to offer a small PC like the Mac Mini.

For years, there has been some small PCs bascially the size of a CD-RW Drive, only a little longer.

Apple just packaged their concept very nicely.

Edit: For example:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000690024275/

Sushi

Actually they did with the Cube G4 :p
Shuttle and company copnied the concept, when Apple came out with the Mini, people though that they copied the concept from the PC...amazing

[SiliconAddict]

Ahhh!! nothing like a good lawsuit to get you going in the morning. Introductions are in order. Apple lawyers meet Intel’s lawyers. Intel lawyers meet Apple lawyers. Now play nice. ;)

[~Shard~]

Ahhh!! nothing like a good lawsuit to get you going in the morning. Introductions are in order. Apple lawyers meet Intel’s lawyers. Intel lawyers meet Apple lawyers. Now play nice. ;)

Maybe they've already been talking (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128198)... :o

[rowanhall]

that intel design dejo posted looks like a paving tile, more akin to a patio than a desk!

i have always been fond of the shuttle cases and the desktop ones offered by lian-li, but to be honest i think the mini will prove a hard act to follow?

whats the chances of a g5 powermac cube? if one was released i would be so tempted to get one! :)

[Orlando Furioso]

Exactly, thanks for that Sushi. It's just like the people who say that MS ripped off Apple's OS back in the day. But we won't get into the whole Xerox discussion, now will we? ;)

shhhhhhhhh, let us never speak of the subject again.

[~Shard~]

shhhhhhhhh, let us never speak of the subject again.

Gotcha. Speak of what? ;)

[sushi]

i have always been fond of the shuttle cases and the desktop ones offered by lian-li, but to be honest i think the mini will prove a hard act to follow?
The Shuttle is a nice system.

As I mentioned before, mini pcs like this are available:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000690024275/

They are pretty cool if you have limited computing needs.

The key with Apple, is that they take a concept, and not only implement it well design wise, they also have the software including iLife which makes items such as the Mac mini a very nice concept.

My earlier post was just to say that Apple is not always the first. While they are a tremendous industry leader and have introduced many firsts, at times they follow as well. Apple is an innovative company no doubt about it. But there are some cool things on the PC side of the house as well.

Sushi

[~Shard~]

The key with Apple, is that they take a concept, and not only implement it well design wise, they also have the software including iLife which makes items such as the Mac mini a very nice concept.

Sushi

Good point - let us never forget about the software. Being able to run iLife and OS X give the Mini a huge advantage - the fact that they come free with the system - even better. :cool:

[Abstract]

Well the goal is to build smaller PCs, so is anyone really copying anyone else? Its not like companies weren't heading in this direction in terms of size. Its just that Apple has the nicest little computer, that's all. The size was always going to get smaller eventually, whether Apple was around nor not.

[sushi]

Gotcha. Speak of what? ;)
I have no idea of what you are talking about! :D :D :D

[iPoster]

Edit: For example:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000690024275/

Sushi

Ugh, at $419 bare bones, or three to four times the price of the mini depending on how you equip it; even worse graphics than the 9200 in the mini, and you have to choose between 11.b (sorry, no 11.g!) wireless and bluetooth, can't have both at once...

*walks off shaking his head*

[sushi]

Ugh, at $419 bare bones, or three to four times the price of the mini depending on how you equip it; even worse graphics than the 9200 in the mini, and you have to choose between 11.b (sorry, no 11.g!) wireless and bluetooth, can't have both at once...

*walks off shaking his head*
Heck, a Mac mini gets a lot more expensive if you go to 1.42Ghz, Superdrive, 1GB RAM, 80GB HD, 802.11g and BT. That's not the point.

As I said in my original post, these are good if you have limited computing needs.

Also, now that the mini is such a success, you can bet that these types of computers will become more competitive as prices drop and features go up.

Please note, I am not saying that the Mac mini is bad. I like them very much. Just saying that there have been small PC options like the Mac mini before.

Sushi

[BenRoethig]

The only "mini" pc I would ever get it this one: The i8600 from Shuttle.

Note to Apple: Put G5 in here and people will buy.

[840quadra]

Trade-off with desktop [read: cheaper] components & upgradeability.

They are about as easy to upgrade as a Mini according to the article. the advantages of it residing on Intel clone hardware are much less of an advantage.

[840quadra]

The Shuttle is a nice system.

As I mentioned before, mini pcs like this are available:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000690024275/

They are pretty cool if you have limited computing needs.

The key with Apple, is that they take a concept, and not only implement it well design wise, they also have the software including iLife which makes items such as the Mac mini a very nice concept.

My earlier post was just to say that Apple is not always the first. While they are a tremendous industry leader and have introduced many firsts, at times they follow as well. Apple is an innovative company no doubt about it. But there are some cool things on the PC side of the house as well.

Sushi


I agree, Dell and Compaq had systems only slightly larger then the Mini for years now. The only thing that is unique about the mini is it being Apple hardware, and the fact that it is a small flat laying device.

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2003/02/dell-opsx260-i1.jpg

[aafuss1]

I've also seen PC cases that look a lot like the G5 tower design:
http://uk.geocities.com/vincecutting@btinternet.com/casezc7104hsi.jpg
http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-17011.php

[Wonder Boy]

I'm afraid Intel copying Apple is like a fat girl doing ballet - making the same moves does not mean you have the same style. :cool:

somewhere there is a husky girl wearing a tutu, sitting in a corner, crying.

[mcarvin]

I've also seen PC cases that look a lot like the G5 tower design:
http://uk.geocities.com/vincecutting@btinternet.com/casezc7104hsi.jpg
http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-17011.php

Something I've always noticed with PC industrial design is that they try to "tech it up" a little too much with bezels and bolts and about 5 too many visual elements.

The G5-like jpg above is a great example extraordinarly poor design, even by ripoff standards. The Dell above looks like a short overweight man wearing clothes that are just a size too small. Here's another couple of Frankenminis:
http://www.cappuccinopc.com/media/images/gallery/lt-5000/1-1.jpghttp://www.littlepc.com/images/lpc401_front_small.jpg

It's got to be a cultural thing - in order to _look_ powerful, we must bevel/chrome/bolt/screw/curve/protrude/extrude everything everywhere.

[mkrishnan]

Something I've always noticed with PC industrial design is that they try to "tech it up" a little too much with bezels and bolts and about 5 too many visual elements.

That CappuccinoPC (? -- the top one in your post) actually doesn't look half bad to me. Nowhere near the mini, but not half bad. It would look better if a mismatching mouse wasn't paired with it. PC companies seem obsessed with ugly keyboards and mice sometimes. Of course Apple is obsessed with pretty and overly simplistic. But no one should discount the effect pretty has on selling Apple hardware. :)

[Maxx Power]

You know, I had subscriptions to many different PC magazines back in the eras of 1998,1999,2000, and there was at one time, a fairly popular format being produced by one company whose name I never grasped, and it definitely took me a while to find a picture of this small format, but if you consider this, it came definitely long ago before the Mini, and the mini, is very resemblant to this physical dimension wise.

Update: Found a few more images, and found out that the latest versions of this thing held a 1.4 Ghz Tualatin 512KB L2 cache cpu. ****ty graphics though.

[mo0805]

Exactly, thanks for that Sushi. It's just like the people who say that MS ripped off Apple's OS back in the day. But we won't get into the whole Xerox discussion, now will we? ;)

haven't you seen "pirates of silicon valley"? ;) :D

[mcarvin]

That CappuccinoPC (? -- the top one in your post) actually doesn't look half bad to me. Nowhere near the mini, but not half bad. It would look better if a mismatching mouse wasn't paired with it. PC companies seem obsessed with ugly keyboards and mice sometimes. Of course Apple is obsessed with pretty and overly simplistic. But no one should discount the effect pretty has on selling Apple hardware. :)

Right - the Cappucino isn't overly horrendous, but the mix of angular and curved faces plus the grill design really hurts it by making it too visually busy. Plus, that blue capsule-shaped element on the front should highlight something, but it's not clear what because both the chrome and blue have ports but apparently no drive door. It's probably the least bad of the crop.

[~Shard~]

haven't you seen "pirates of silicon valley"? ;) :D

Oh yes, many times - and have done a lot of supplementary reading on the subject as well. Fascinating stories... :cool:

[mo0805]

I agree, Dell and Compaq had systems only slightly larger then the Mini for years now. The only thing that is unique about the mini is it being Apple hardware, and the fact that it is a small flat laying device.

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2003/02/dell-opsx260-i1.jpg

only slightly larger? that looks like it's more than double the size of a mini, to me.

[mkrishnan]

Right - the Cappucino isn't overly horrendous, but the mix of angular and curved faces plus the grill design really hurts it by making it too visually busy. Plus, that blue capsule-shaped element on the front should highlight something, but it's not clear what because both the chrome and blue have ports but apparently no drive door. It's probably the least bad of the crop.

Yes...busy is definitely a big problem with industrial design in the windows world...I think there's also a mentality that goes, "If I add a row of buttons in a different color, and put it along an arc, then the design will look cool and high tech!" :rolleyes: Except for the printer world. There, the mantra seems to be utter incomprehensibility and inscrutability....

[JzzTrump22]

Why does everyone steal Apple's designs.

[mkrishnan]

Update: Found a few more images, and found out that the latest versions of this thing held a 1.4 Ghz Tualatin 512KB L2 cache cpu. ****ty graphics though.

Don't you love the storylines that the photos of some of these PCs inspire though? I really like my new mini PC. Not only is it extremely small, but the textured bezel doubles as a flint stone and sometimes I like to strike my matches against it. The only problem with it is that I confuse it with my cellphone. So I took this picture to put in my wallet to help me remember which is which. This is very important, because my cellphone doesn't have a textured bezel and I cannot light matches with it. Incidentally, I am obsessed with simulated woodgrain, preferably in light oak stains. :D

[mcarvin]

Yes...busy is definitely a big problem with industrial design in the windows world...I think there's also a mentality that goes, "If I add a row of buttons in a different color, and put it along an arc, then the design will look cool and high tech!" :rolleyes: Except for the printer world. There, the mantra seems to be utter incomprehensibility and inscrutability....

I had something about the culture of PC industrial design in my first post but got rid of it. You sir, nailed it. The whole thing just reeks of having a hostile, condescending view of the non-geek user.

[mkrishnan]

I had something about the culture of PC industrial design in my first post but got rid of it. You sir, nailed it. The whole thing just reeks of having a hostile, condescending view of the non-geek user.

This, in return, sir, is such a fine piece of wordsmithing that I am sore tempted to put it in my sig. :D

[840quadra]

only slightly larger? that looks like it's more than double the size of a mini, to me.

Not really, it is possibly the size of 1.5 Macintosh Mini computers.
It also pre-dates the mini by about 2.5 years.

[mvc]

somewhere there is a husky girl wearing a tutu, sitting in a corner, crying. I know, I know, she's probably one of my daughters, neither are prima ballerina build, but every girl wants to be a ballerina. It can be really bad to get them involved if they are not the right size, I have a 'solid' niece who was involved, and she got a lot of grief from the other kids as they all got older.

You just gotta work with the body you are given.
<sour grapes>Ballet looks silly anyway!</sour grapes>
;)

[brap]

They are about as easy to upgrade as a Mini according to the article. the advantages of it residing on Intel clone hardware are much less of an advantage.Which 'they'? If you're referring to the Intel prototype, sure... but Shuttles? Industry standard PCI, and AGP/PCI-e slots, 5.25" and 3.5" drive bays, along with socketed processors put them in a different league. Indeed, a different target market... the Mini (and non-Intel clone hardware) won't exactly play Half Life 2.

[stephenli]

I'm afraid Intel copying Apple is like a fat girl doing ballet - making the same moves does not mean you have the same style. :cool:

This is an eternal truth since Macintosh was born
and its the best statement of-the-day!!!!!!
Nice say! mvc

lets also change "intel" into "M$"
see what they are doing in the dark side?! longlonghorn

[nagromme]

It's just like the people who say that MS ripped off Apple's OS back in the day. But we won't get into the whole Xerox discussion, now will we? ;)

Actually... Xerox's GUI work introduced some of what we are used to today, but Xerox was only part of an evolution that started with writings of Vannevar Bush in the 1930s and 40s that predated digital computers! Bush's writings inspired Douglas Englebart, who made the first working GUI and invented the mouse. BEFORE he worked for Xerox.

And after Xerox's work (which mainly stayed in the labs) came Apple, who perfected the mouse hardware (it wasn't a practical, reliable device before Apple's) AND introduced much of what we now expect in a GUI. Apple built on existing concepts.

And then Microsoft did the same--and in fact they did indeed copy the Mac GUI quite directly in many ways. Including renaming the Apple menu to the Start menu and moving it to the bottom :rolleyes:

One difference: Apple really made something innovative that never existed before, with the 1983 Lisa/Mac GUI. Microsoft on the other hand took backward steps and spent years catching up. Only recently have they contributed some small tidbits of their own GUI functionality.

Jobs' NeXT went its own way and innovated some things we now expect from GUIs too--and of course NeXTStep is a big part of Mac OS X's lineage.

So for the record, some things Apple and NeXT contributed to the GUI:

Drag-and-drop
Pulldown menus (including the File Edit View structure still used today)
Checkmark-selected menu items
Keyboard shortcuts for menus
Graying-out unavailable items
Trashcan
Double-clicking
Every file being an icon (and dragging for file management)
Hierarchical file browsing with windows for folders
Metadata fork, including assigning what app would open what file
Redrawing of only the necessary part of a window when something in front of it is moved
Shaded/beveled look for windows and icons (NeXT is the first I'm aware of that went all the way with that)
"X" symbol for closing windows (NeXT had it, then it showed up in other UNIXes and Windows... now it's on Mac too)
Dock that can be placed at any edge
Dialogs ("sheets") visually attached directly to their associated windows
Exposé

So Xerox PARC did a lot--scrollbars for instance, and some limited use of icons--but imagine life without the above before you say Apple copied what already existed.

See: http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gui.ars/ and wikipedia for more info.

Now... more directly on topic... I'm surprised nobody's posted a picture of this new machine yet. It looks Apple-esque, but unlike Intel's concept, this one is NOT an Mac Mini rip-off. For one thing it's too big :D

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/xccube-minimz855.jpg

And apparently, it's STILL not as quiet as a Mac Mini!

[poundsmack]

Actually... Xerox's GUI work introduced some of what we are used to today...

so much for not talking about that one :p

[nagromme]

so much for not talking about that one :p

Yep :D But I think he meant we won't talk about how Apple copied Xerox. And I didn't talk about that, I talked about how Apple didn't ;)

And we ALSO shouldn't be talking about how AOpen copied the Mac Mini, because they just didn't. They copied Apple's style, but it's more iPod-like than Mac Mini-like.

[~Shard~]

Yep :D But I think he meant we won't talk about how Apple copied Xerox. And I didn't talk about that, I talked about how Apple didn't ;)

Precisely. Well done! :cool:

[poundsmack]

Yep :D But I think he meant we won't talk about how Apple copied Xerox. And I didn't talk about that, I talked about how Apple didn't ;)

And we ALSO shouldn't be talking about how AOpen copied the Mac Mini, because they just didn't. They copied Apple's style, but it's more iPod-like than Mac Mini-like.

hahaha touche

[Prom1]

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2003/02/dell-opsx260-i1.jpg

Sorry 840Quadra, that thing is hideous, we have those here at Mohawk College in Hamilton, ON, Canada. Man that is a lot bigger than it looks. thickness may be slightly 4 mm thicker than the Mac Mini, but length & width oversize the Mini. If you put that over the Mini, you'd think the Mini is its stand. Man the cables are way too annoying on that puppy. :rolleyes:

[solvs]

Yep :D But I think he meant we won't talk about how Apple copied Xerox. And I didn't talk about that, I talked about how Apple didn't ;)
Not to mention they licensed it fair and square (Xerox even got some stock) and hired people who were working on the PARC, which Xerox didn't seem to want to do anything with. Plus, PARC does not equal Mac OS. They were already building a working GUI, but the PARC stuff added to what was already there.

And we ALSO shouldn't be talking about how AOpen copied the Mac Mini, because they just didn't. They copied Apple's style, but it's more iPod-like than Mac Mini-like.
True, but it is called the XC CUBE. ;) Kinda funny that. Not that there weren't boxes like that before the Cube, just thought I'd point that out. And those Dell SX things ain't great. We have them at work. But I guess they're better than the HP/Compaq slimlines they replaced.

Terminal Services and Cytrix still suck.

[homerjward]

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm?DocId=602
anyone seen that? a keyboard with a pc built in. p4 processor, even has a pci slot. first read about it in i think PC World magazine awhile ago. seems really cool.

[iMeowbot]

FWIW, Apple is not the first to offer a small PC like the Mac Mini.
Right, the many in-dash PCs come to mind as well.

[iProbot]

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm?DocId=602
anyone seen that? a keyboard with a pc built in.

Well....I had one, simular like this one, almost 15 years ago:

http://freeweb.supereva.com/retroware/A1200pic2.jpg

Yep, who says only Apple was innovating? Amiga was pretty far ahead too, at that time!
:)

[iMeowbot]

Well the goal is to build smaller PCs, so is anyone really copying anyone else? Its not like companies weren't heading in this direction in terms of size.
Right, and the predominance of CD and DVD media dictates something that will resemble a CD player.
Its just that Apple has the nicest little computer, that's all. The size was always going to get smaller eventually, whether Apple was around nor not.
Yep. Jobs admitted as much about a year ago at D:.

The more consumer products evolve, the more and more they look like software in boxes.

That's going to become more and more true over time, both for general purpose computers and purpose-built gadgets. It will get to the point that a whole computer is so cheap that no one cares about upgrading parts and "what does it run?" becomes the only serious question.

[nagromme]

Re iProbot: I used to really like the A1200 form factor, not to mention AGA... Even better (size-wise) the A600: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=64

But I've got you beat, I STILL have this PC-in-keyboard:
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/commodore_c64.jpg

And before that I had a (borrowed) VIC 20 :o

[iMeowbot]

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm?DocId=602
anyone seen that? a keyboard with a pc built in. p4 processor, even has a pci slot. first read about it in i think PC World magazine awhile ago. seems really cool.
It looks just like a VIC-20 :D

[poundsmack]

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm?DocId=602
anyone seen that? a keyboard with a pc built in. p4 processor, even has a pci slot. first read about it in i think PC World magazine awhile ago. seems really cool.

this thing is sooo cool. i want one! but with the new VIA C7 processor instead

[Xtremehkr]

On a positive note, if they are copying it, it means that it has met with enough success to be worth copying.

Not that they will be good copies anyway.

[Bonte]

Wired Magazine (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,67664,00.html?tw=rss.TEK)
the Mac mini's estimated rate of around 40,000 a month.

Somehow 40.000 a month doesn't seem like a big halo effect to me, its about 12% of total mac sales.

[nagromme]

Somehow 40.000 a month doesn't seem like a big halo effect to me, its about 12% of total mac sales.
That's 40,000 (or whatever) to START with, but the halo effect only grows (and applies to all Mac models). AND a sizable chunk of that is people who wouldn't have bought ANY Mac before. Low-end shoppers, and PC folks afraid to try a Mac unless the cost outlay is low. That's good ground to gain. Last but not least, the Mac Mini has brought great mindshare, and let to interest in Apple. And thus, it has drawn shoppers to Macs, even if they ended up with an iMac or something higher in the end!

[Gorbag]

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm?DocId=602
anyone seen that? a keyboard with a pc built in. p4 processor, even has a pci slot. first read about it in i think PC World magazine awhile ago. seems really cool.

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/96/943/640/atarist.jpg

Oh, the days of STs and Creator...sigh.

Sadly, i wasn't even young then!

[iWantAMac]

Seems all like a big game of 'follow the leader' to me .

[iProbot]

Re iProbot: I used to really like the A1200 form factor, not to mention AGA... Even better (size-wise) the A600:

But I've got you beat, I STILL have this PC-in-keyboard:
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/commodore_c64.jpg

And before that I had a (borrowed) VIC 20 :o

:-) Yep, I had them all too.....I actually played the 'famous' game Cannon Fodder a couple of days ago again. So much fun
:D

[840quadra]

Which 'they'? If you're referring to the Intel prototype, sure... but Shuttles? Industry standard PCI, and AGP/PCI-e slots, 5.25" and 3.5" drive bays, along with socketed processors put them in a different league. Indeed, a different target market... the Mini (and non-Intel clone hardware) won't exactly play Half Life 2.

I was typing in regards to the Intel prototype, the subject of this thread. I then went into sharing info on the older Dell small footprint optiplex.

[christian_k]

Some days ago there was a report (on the German IT Site http://www.heise.de)
that apple takes legal action agains PLUS (a German food discounter chain) because they sell an mp3 Player which is a very close clone of iPod Mini.

This news startet one of the usual discussions in the forums - "apple too expensive bla". The "cheap copy" whithout iPods battery life, quality and good software is 179€ , but it is possible to ger the "original" for the same price or not much more, typically 189€.

Of course apple does have problems wirh clones ans poor clones, like any company that makes great and well recognized products. But I wonder if they will just sit and do nothing if cloning gets too obvious...

Christian

[iMeowbot]

Somehow 40.000 a month doesn't seem like a big halo effect to me, its about 12% of total mac sales.
It's doing fine as an upsell decoy, and in shutting up critics who claimed that Apple was doomed -- DOOMED -- because they didn't sell one :D

[unclewilco]

Re iProbot: I used to really like the A1200 form factor, not to mention AGA... Even better (size-wise) the A600: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=64

But I've got you beat, I STILL have this PC-in-keyboard:
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/commodore_c64.jpg

And before that I had a (borrowed) VIC 20 :o

ah..... those were the days

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/sinclair_zx80_1.jpg

of course we even used to fight over my ZX81 is better then your ZX80. (which of course it was.... and dont get me onto the Spectrum verses the plus)

so this bickering is not new...

(notice iam not comapring Sinclair with commodore with aimga, i do have some pride left)

[iMeowbot]

This page (http://www.silentpcreview.com/) has photos of the machine at Computex.

[edit - copied here:]

[dukeblue91]

This page (http://www.silentpcreview.com/) has photos of the machine at Computex.

[edit - copied here:]
This is sick :mad:
I hope Apple sues the crap out of them.

[shen]

Yep :D But I think he meant we won't talk about how Apple copied Xerox. And I didn't talk about that, I talked about how Apple didn't ;)

And we ALSO shouldn't be talking about how AOpen copied the Mac Mini, because they just didn't. They copied Apple's style, but it's more iPod-like than Mac Mini-like.

annoying philosophy rant warning!

the simple fact of the matter is that everything is indeed connected to everything. windows is naturally based on the Mac interface, based on Xerox, based on works by others, based on the works of others based on..... had Plato never mentioned the world of forms where would be today? and where did he get it from?

also, we over look the effects of cumulative tiny factors. who can say, perhaps a certain billboard, passed by a certain worker at Xerox, everyday on the way to work, is as much responsible as anything.

what we should be glad of, is that Apple seems to know how to hire, nurture and encourage the kinds of people that are capable of taking the good things they experience and crafting them into good products. and even if the other companies can not do the same, when they do chose to "copy" someone else, even if poorly, hopefully enough of the positive rubs off on their design to slightly improve the total "positive" in world.

...but i do wish they did a better job, cause some of those PCs are freaking ugly!

[cr2sh]

This machine is a bit of a slap in the face from intel to apple... if apple really is considering the x86 switch, why rip off their machine? How does that help their cpu sales?

[shen]

This machine is a bit of a slap in the face from intel to apple... if apple really is considering the x86 switch, why rip off their machine? How does that help their cpu sales?

intel is not building it.

[cr2sh]

intel is not building it.

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
According to the article, the prototype was built at the request of Intel...

You're correct. They are requesting it. Hence my comment.

[Yvan256]

Not sure it's been poster (don't feel like reading 5 pages of "omg that looks like crap" or "what a bunch of copy-cats").

Here's something to really make you go "omg this looks like crap": Mini AOpen Paradox (http://www.silentpcreview.com/).

What's with the stupid, huge, ugly button in the front? What's with the holes on the top?

It might be the same size as a Mac mini, but frankly, they should come up with their own design. We couldn't compare it directly to a Mac mini.

[scryber]

I wonder if it will copy the dim VGA problem (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/mac_mini_dim_video.html) that the mini suffers from, too. :mad:

[Bonte]

if its priced ok i want one next to my G5, beats VPC in performance and almost in price. Maybe i can stack a Mac mini and a Win mini later on. :)

[bit.shiftr]

It will be interesting how they market it. The Mac Mini is an inexpensive way for Wintel users to move to Mac OS X in order to gain security and reliability. Wintel already had the price advantage with the cheap entry level PC's from Dell and others. Security and reliability will still suck on this new mini Wintel...so how are they going to market it?

I think it's just a gimmick to try and take some of the wind form Apple's sails.

[nagromme]

Wow!

Unlike the one mentioned (in error?) by Wired, the Paradox machine really IS a complete Mac-Mini rip-off! If Intel asked for THAT then I'm amazed.

And this rip-off won't even be ready until fall :rolleyes: I guess that's better than Intel's own clone, an empty shell full of air.

Thanks for the link. ( http://www.silentpcreview.com )

[roy_dan]

Think about it. Anyone in the market for this form factor PC will want to try out both platforms since they're almost identical on the outside. Then Apple will get a sale from someone who normally wouldn't consider Mac thanks to this PC maker pushing the mini-interest. You know what they say about karma? It's like I tell all my PC friends who ask redundant questions like, "Should I buy Dell or Gateway?" I tell them it doesn't matter because it's still a PC running windows. Now here comes a real contrast to compare and we all know what happens once someone is infected with Aqua! Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer. Here's the minutes from the Apple-Intel meeting, "Pretty please tell us how you did it!"

[roy_dan]

BTW, I have a theory about the holes in the top. They didn't want to copy the PM G5 cheese grater so they made a salad strainer instead. When that Pentium M melts down at least the case can serve a higher purpose.

[Sir]

http://forum.macosx.nl/album_pic.php?pic_id=7058

I think it's butt ugly! ......I have a MacMini, I love it, so I know what I'm talking about :p

[xli_ne]

http://forum.macosx.nl/album_pic.php?pic_id=7058

I think it's butt ugly! ......I have a MacMini, I love it, so I know what I'm talking about :p

I dont see how you have say its butt ugly. It looks almost exactly the same. The top is different and its a different color. The design though is basically the same thing. Even a dvi port, which I find surprising. Most media pc's, like HP doesn't even have a dvi port.

[bartelby]

http://forum.macosx.nl/album_pic.php?pic_id=7058

I think it's butt ugly! ......I have a MacMini, I love it, so I know what I'm talking about :p


Looks like a MacMini that's been sprayed silver to me

[iPlm]

Holy apples! They've stoled a mini and put a Pentium M inside! This is a complete rip off! Expect Intel Inside Powerbooks look-alike soon! :eek:

[_pb_boi]

Holy apples! They've stoled a mini and put a Pentium M inside! This is a complete rip off! Expect Intel Inside Powerbooks look-alike soon! :eek:

Typical fanboy attitude. It's never gonna look any different; at the end of the day, they're both very-SFF computers, made of metal, with a slot-load drive. Why would they look anything BUT hugely similar?

andy.

[LaMerVipere]

How disgusting. This is the most blatant rip-off ever.

[Fender2112]

Typical fanboy attitude. It's never gonna look any different; at the end of the day, they're both very-SFF computers, made of metal, with a slot-load drive. Why would they look anything BUT hugely similar?

andy.

Well, all cars have four wheels and a motor. But they don't all look the same. I think it's a pity that these Wintel folks can't come up something original once in a while.

[thedoc1111]

Complete rip... Let's hope Apple has patents and sues their ass because they deserve it. One more thing, ppl at the SilentPCReview forum are complaining that Macs are 'too expensive'. It will be interesting to see whether this Pentium M job comes out cheaper...

[law guy]

Wow. Hope the PC-mini folks budgeted for the impending suit over the intellectual property of the design. Seems a bit reckless, unless Apple licensed the design to them.

[miketcool]

The photos were enough to grab my attention, could this BE any more of a rip off? Come on, there has been no trying lately by the "competition".

[Windowlicker]

http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/computex05/paradox2.jpg

OH. MY. GOD. This is utterly tasteless. I really like the G5 crates blended with the mac mini form factor ;) ..and the b-e-a-utiful sticker on the front totally is the sherry on the top!

Please, gimme a break!

edit. wtf? the link should've had a picture of the pc mini :P oh well.. whatever.

[Sir]

I dont see how you have say its butt ugly. It looks almost exactly the same. The top is different and its a different color. The design though is basically the same thing. Even a dvi port, which I find surprising. Most media pc's, like HP doesn't even have a dvi port.

Well, I find it ugly because I don't like copying great designs, like OUR Mini! So I then felt the immediate urge to say something negative about this ugly copy.....
:o

[qwerty007]

does the PC world have any talent when it comes to designing their OWN computers? Apple had the first widescreen laptop, the first 17" laptop, the long forgotten cube, the first GUI based operating system and dozens of other designs which the PC world has so pathetically ripped off and claimed as their own. just cause they changed the color of the case and put a different MOBO and processor in it or in the case of windoze move the icons from the right of the screen to the left, it doesn't make it THEIR idea. are PC designers so pathetic that they must resort to stealing the designs of a truly innovative company or are they just jealous? my fellow mac afficianados, there is a revolution at hand, will you join me to wage war against the PC world. long live APPLE!

[biohazard6969]

isn't it great that everyone loves the mini so much they feel the need to copy it? i feel that this is a true testament to a good piece of machinery, yet at the same time, it is an outrage, what do they hope to do? convince mac mini shoppers that theres IS the mac mini? i dun get it

[iPlm]

Typical fanboy attitude. It's never gonna look any different; at the end of the day, they're both very-SFF computers, made of metal, with a slot-load drive. Why would they look anything BUT hugely similar?

andy.

Why did people admire the mac mini when they first saw it? Was it because of the really nice design which differed from almost anything else on the market? I have not seen any other computer with that particular shape, with every detail positioned just like the mini. I am not the only person who thinks this AOpen Paradox is a copy of the mac mini.

Guess most PC manufacturers have much lack of innovation.

[Yvan256]

And this rip-off won't even be ready until fall :rolleyes: I guess that's better than Intel's own clone, an empty shell full of air.

Correction: it's from intel, so it was an empty shell full of HOT air. :D

[xli_ne]

Well, I find it ugly because I don't like copying great designs, like OUR Mini! So I then felt the immediate urge to say something negative about this ugly copy.....
:o

Well I can understand that I'm surprised that no one has ripped off the ipod like this. I remember seeing a shuttle rip-off, but not a total ipod rip

[Fukui]

Typical fanboy attitude. It's never gonna look any different; at the end of the day, they're both very-SFF computers, made of metal, with a slot-load drive. Why would they look anything BUT hugely similar?
.
Yea, but they dont have to copy just about every curve line and asthetic about it. Who cares if they make a mini pc, the fact is some people have about ZERO originality.

[nagromme]

Typical fanboy attitude. It's never gonna look any different; at the end of the day, they're both very-SFF computers, made of metal, with a slot-load drive. Why would they look anything BUT hugely similar?

While the name-calling is an effective argument, if all small computers look alike, then why didn't the Mini look like the ones before it? Show me one that looks like as much like the Mini as this new one does--even with a tray-load drive.

All boxes of a certain size and color with a slot look alike? I guess "shape" and "details" are not part of design or trade dress then?

Part of the beauty of Apple minimalist design is simplification to the point where it seems obvious in hindsight. The Mac Mini, iMac G5, iPod, PowerBook, iBook, and Cinema Displays are all great examples. And yet somehow nobody but Apple came up with those designs...

[maverick18x]

Who really cares what wintel does? Unless you become an innovator you will always stay a step behind. Who knows the specs on this thing anyway? It's just for those stubborn PC users who don't want to switch, so they can say "we have them too." It isn't this (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/nw/sp/storygraphics/IntelMini.jpg) media center that was ripped off before though, it's completely different.

And who wants a mini if they have to buy an adapter and don't have USB/firewire anyway? (http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/computex05/paradox2.jpg)

[javiercr]

Who really cares what wintel does? Unless you become an innovator you will always stay a step behind. Who knows the specs on this thing anyway? It's just for those stubborn PC users who don't want to switch, so they can say "we have them too." It isn't this (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/nw/sp/storygraphics/IntelMini.jpg) media center that was ripped off before though, it's completely different.

And who wants a mini if they have to buy an adapter and don't have USB/firewire anyway? (http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/computex05/paradox2.jpg)

being an innovator doesn't guarantee anything, actually followers do quite well... Microsoft has followed in everything and i think they do quite well!

[nagromme]

Wired has added new photos--and ther's an Intel logo and a Microsoft logo on the exhibit, sure enough, alongside AOpen:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,67664,00.html?tw=rss.TOP

http://www.wired.com/news/images/manual/23_minipc_f.jpg

Of course this won't sell well, it's something to showcase not something to change anything really. And it probably helps Apple more than hurts--press = mindshare! And yes, Apple should sue them too.

Some details that make this no Mac Mini competitor in reality:

* Not in production until Fall!

* Rated louder than the Mini (not sure where I saw that today).

* If it's like other compact PCs, speed will suffer, and cost will be high, and it will lack hundreds of dollars of features found standard on the Mac Mini.

* It appears to have fewer expansion ports.

* It's almost certainly cheap plastic instead of aluminum (since it's available in both silver and white).

* No iLife software bundle.

* No Tiger :)

The people most interested in something a little "different" like this will be good candidates for an open mind about a REAL Mac anyway.

Oh, and I like the Shuttle VP's quote explaining that for full size computers, PCs are better than Macs because Macs are not upgradable :rolleyes: but that PCs lose that advantage when made in a compact size, thus becoming non-upgradable like Macs. Hmmm.....

[zap2]

really is worths less, get a biger computer that cost less, mac mini is a cheap way to get used to osx(but the tiny size does help, my bet the mini is faster then the copy. I saw soemwhere the used the mini's cas and put a pc in ( it was crap compared to the mini.)

[_pb_boi]

Point taken - it is very similar.

I guess my problem is that as soon as any vSFF computer is released, it's immediately slated against the mini. Granted, most of them ARE ugly, though.

Stand corrected.

andy.

[Abstract]

Can Apple protect their designs from being ripped off? I wasn't really angry before, but this rips Apple off big-time. Its not that I really care what they do in the PC World. I'm not in that world. However, Apple does work hard and takes risks and for AOpen to basically get a great design for free..... :mad:

[PCMacUser]

Can Apple protect their designs from being ripped off? I wasn't really angry before, but this rips Apple off big-time. Its not that I really care what they do in the PC World. I'm not in that world. However, Apple does work hard and takes risks and for AOpen to basically get a great design for free..... :mad:
Yep you're right - it's a rip off. But really, how complex a design is it? The Mac Mini is just a little flattish box with a slot in the front. It's not like an elaborate piece of craftsmanship or anything hehe...

[PCMacUser]

my bet the mini is faster then the copy. I saw soemwhere the used the mini's cas and put a pc in ( it was crap compared to the mini.)
The whole point of this exercise is that Intel wants to show off their mobile technology in a desktop box. Pentium M technology is very quick now - I expect a 2.13GHz CPU would *comfortably* dispatch a 1.42GHz Mac Mini for pure processing power. It's all going to come down to what they bundle with it, ie, graphics card, expansion ports, etc.

Ultimately PC owners enjoy choice with their hardware, and this provides just another choice. Intel may not make much money on this due to the competitive nature of the PC industry, as opposed to Apple who have a captive market.

Personally I'd go for the Mac Mini, because I have enough PCs already. But Intel's new mobile chipset features some great things such as PCI Express graphics, and 7.1 channel high definition sound (with SPDIF outputs). If they use this chipset in their 'mini', then it'll be an awesome TV box.

[bbyrdhouse]

if its priced ok i want one next to my G5, beats VPC in performance and almost in price. Maybe i can stack a Mac mini and a Win mini later on. :)

That would be great!

It would be small enough to pack in my computer bag next to my Powerbook.

VPC is really slow

[Abstract]

Yep you're right - it's a rip off. But really, how complex a design is it? The Mac Mini is just a little flattish box with a slot in the front. It's not like an elaborate piece of craftsmanship or anything hehe...

Then why did Intel/AOpen need to copy it? ;)

It isn't that simple.

[mcarvin]

release the hounds

http://www.posterplanet.net/images/simpsonsburns.jpg

[iHateWindows]

Apple is gonna be really happy with this... :rolleyes:

[tjatl]

So it's small and looks like the Mac Mini, big whoop.

What is interesting, and some people have passed over this, is that it uses the Pentium-M chip. I'll repost a link from the previous Intel-Mac thread.

Pentium-M has great performance (http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050525/index.html)

Let us try to sum up the insights we have gained during the course of this little project.

With the help of a simple socket adapter card and a BIOS upgrade, certain mainboards using Intel's 865/875 chipsets can be upgraded to use a Pentium M instead of a Pentium 4. Such a system offers up-to-date performance paired with low power requirements.

Additionally, we were able to raise the FSB from 133 to 160 MHz without any trouble at all. The result was that our 2.13GHz Pentium M 770 ended up running at 2.56 GHz! At this clock speed, our two year old platform was able to beat the processor heavyweights Athlon 64 FX and Intel Pentium 4 Extreme Edition in all 3D games!

Beating $800-900 chips is pretty amazing, but doubt this sucker will be able to do that.

[Mike Teezie]

Wow, that's a pretty shameless ripoff.

Does it run OS X? No? Not interested.

[SiliconAddict]

Wow. Seriously. After seeing actual pictures. Sort of speechless. Seriously. Did they actually think Apple WOULDN’T sue them? I was somewhat kidding before but this....wow. :eek:

[artifex]

holes in the top - great. Wait til the average pc user decides it's a good place to put a cold drink. Even if it doesn't spill, condensation will drip down. Darwinism at work... literally :)

Like I said before the Mac Mini came out, take some design principles from Sun's IPC and IPX (http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_ipx/) "lunchbox" designs.

[michaellehn]

So was that "Apple in Talks with Intel" because of this? Maybe it wasn't about using any Intel chips.

[MontyZ]

Oh no, they forgot to copy the name of the product correctly, too.

It should be "PC Mini," not "Mini PC."

I guess they didn't copy EVERYTHING.

[sluthy]

This is bad for Apple. No doubt the ensuing legal battle (I imagine there will be?) will stir up interest in the products, and heaps of people will say "What's this new PC? Wow, that's cool. Hang on, what's that Apple thing? What a ripoff."

Ripoffs can help improve the image of a product, but only when the public actually knows about the product in the first place. Look at people bagging the iMac ripoffs and naming (how quickly did everything become iEverything?), but that's because the iMac was popular with everyone first - no-one knows what the Mac mini is yet.

They needed to have done a big advertising and/or press coverage deal on launch (I mean like a front page article in the IT pages - or even the front page for big-time exposure - of the NY Times or something. I don't know, I'm not in the US?) so people didn't have to go hunting for the thing, instead they get shown it on the news. Look at the news coverage the XBox360 and PS3 got - now EVERYONE knows what they look like. And they're not even out yet.

[cr2sh]

the iMac was popular with everyone first - no-one knows what the Mac mini is yet.

They needed to have done a big advertising and/or press coverage deal on launch (I mean like a front page article in the IT pages - or even the front page for big-time exposure - of the NY Times or something. I don't know, I'm not in the US?) so people didn't have to go hunting for the thing, instead they get shown it on the news. Look at the news coverage the XBox360 and PS3 got - now EVERYONE knows what they look like. And they're not even out yet.

The Mac-mini is being sold in BestBuy stores throughout the US. America's largest consumer electronics store has them sitting out for people to play with and use... no doubt (hopefully) anyone in the new PC market will see one.

It's a shame that there aren't mac fans working in Best Buy locations whispering things like "buy this and your machine won't crash." The timing of the switch campaign could have been corrdinated a little better with the macmini certainly... along with a announcer guy saying "See the new mac-mini at your local BestBuy!"

But no... Apple has to be all upidy and refined. :rolleyes:

[darkwing]

Well if it has a pentium M, it's going to be a hell of a lot faster than the Mini. Get it together, Apple.

[radio893fm]

Well, all cars have four wheels and a motor. But they don't all look the same. I think it's a pity that these Wintel folks can't come up something original once in a while.

Apple needs to be sued by RIPING off Konfabulator... don't you think? Of course not fanboys!

[OCOTILLO]

Like the saying goes,"You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." When all is said and done, it is still a PC running Windows.

While the form factor of the Mac mini encouraged me to switch, it was my dis-satisfaction with Windows that was the primary reason.

Does anyone think the "Pandora" will get a Mac user to switch to Intel? I don't think so. The MAC OS is the driving force behind Apple.

[numediaman]

Why shouldn't the WinTel folks rip off the mini? Apple created a great design but refuses to spend real money promoting the thing.

Instead, the PC folk will rip off the idea and market it like crazy. I predict sales will dwarf Apple's within weeks of it going on sale. It's all about marketing and sales power.

Come on guys, if it's quality that sells, then why is Apple's marketshare so poor. The WinTel guys know how to market.

Last thought: my mini is destined to sit next to the TV. Since the only real programs that will be important then will be the browser and the media add-ons (iTunes, Real Player, WMP) the OS will be less important. With the exception of viruses, there is no overriding reason why it has to be a Mac versus Windows machine.

But I'd never buy a PC running Windows as my desktop or laptop -- that would be going too far!

[Boony]

But think again about those articles:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/05/20050523070726.shtml
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/02/20050225022048.shtml

Apple want dedicated hardware for its operating system. No self build PC clone can give this, and that's exactly the problem for the Microsoft Operating systems. They're big and bulky cause of the many devices support and in the weirdest combinations. (And M$ has to support al those)

Now that new little Mini PC is exactly what apple wants, if they would porting the OS X to intel (M) series (they talked .... only guessing about what ? :-) ). So users can only add USB devices and some ram, but they cannot reswap the core processor like many custom clone PC's offer.

And if you can map more routines and code to dedicated hardware, the transition will be easier with that transitive software. And again running an OS x on Intel (M) against 80% processor isn't so bad. Virtualising wil gain and gain more power in the big computer industrie, grown out child-shoes and is rock-steady now.

If Apple won't do a thing about the rip-off, then they're sitting in the middle of a big upcomming hit: Hell froze over (again). They will put a wooden stick in the wheels of the upcomming longhorn rival (that also try to clone the new features of Mac OS X).

Apple can't promote new iPOD's and Mac models in a bigger way, only upgrades in memory and HD sizes. But apple want slam-the-doors with innovation, and what's cooler to say than: Hey, our Mac mini has a brother (no so nice, but close), and we like it. And we thought, why not give it the same feeling with our Tiger on Intel M.

Look at iTunes for windows, a legal rip-off of the original iTunes on OS X. They will do it again, but with Mac OS X on Intel M (compatibles) ....

Time will tell ...

[MontyZ]

Instead, the PC folk will rip off the idea and market it like crazy. I predict sales will dwarf Apple's within weeks of it going on sale.
It probably also helps that the PC/Windows market accounts for 95%+ market share, so, Apple cannot realistically compete with that kind of market saturation, and just has to work on chipping away at that little by little over the next 5 years.

[pna]

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised about this, given that it's a mac forum, but it seems weird to me that nobody's really mentioning one of the big pluses that this mac mini ripoff has over the mini : little to no fan noise .

I love my mac mini, and it's an order of magnitude quieter than the quietest PC I've built (I've tried hard at this), but it's still a fair bit louder than I expected it to be. I certainly wouldn't call it whisper quiet like it was touted, not with a high pitched whiny seagate momentus (an unexpected upgrade) paired with a small fan which is always on at some level, and always audible. I really expected it to be much more like the (fanless) Cube, or at least like the powerbooks that I've used that are basically dead silent. I feel like the powerbooks and the ibooks show that it can be done, they just... didn't. I can only wonder if they had put a few holes in the top that they would have lost some of the style but gained a silent machine, a tradeoff I'd make every day of the week.

Noise is my only complaint with the mini, other than that I absolutely love it. But if this ripoff ran OS X, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat. If they made a ripoff that runs fanless, then I have to say that they've done one better than Apple did. I hope Apple rises to the challenge with the next revision of the mini.

[cr2sh]

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised about this, given that it's a mac forum, but it seems weird to me that nobody's really mentioning one of the big pluses that this mac mini ripoff has over the mini : little to no fan noise .

I love my mac mini, and it's an order of magnitude quieter than the quietest PC I've built (I've tried hard at this), but it's still a fair bit louder than I expected it to be. I certainly wouldn't call it whisper quiet like it was touted, not with a high pitched whiny seagate momentus (an unexpected upgrade) paired with a small fan which is always on at some level, and always audible. I really expected it to be much more like the (fanless) Cube, or at least like the powerbooks that I've used that are basically dead silent. I feel like the powerbooks and the ibooks show that it can be done, they just... didn't. I can only wonder if they had put a few holes in the top that they would have lost some of the style but gained a silent machine, a tradeoff I'd make every day of the week.

Noise is my only complaint with the mini, other than that I absolutely love it. But if this ripoff ran OS X, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat. If they made a ripoff that runs fanless, then I have to say that they've done one better than Apple did. I hope Apple rises to the challenge with the next revision of the mini.

Odd. I was looking at one tonight with a friend.. I picked it up and held it to my ear... dead silent. :confused:

[pna]

Odd. I was looking at one tonight with a friend.. I picked it up and held it to my ear... dead silent. :confused:

That is odd. Were you actually in a quiet room? There's way too much ambient noise in even quiet stores for you to hear it. Even the dual G5's seem fairly inaudible in most places with any kind of background, and they're actually not even all that quiet in a room with no other noise sources. I can't hear the mini well in my local Apple store, which seems fairly quiet when it's not busy, but take it into a room that actually has very little background noise (e.g. , the room I work in most of the time), and you'll definitely hear it. A big chunk of my noise signature is the high pitch of the momentus HD, but there's also an audible whoosh from the fan as well. I was expecting neither when I got the mini -- most notebook hard drives are inaudible, and I expected the fan to be inaudible as well, if it even turned on.

[feakbeak]

That is odd. Were you actually in a quiet room? There's way too much ambient noise in even quiet stores for you to hear it. Even the dual G5's seem fairly inaudible in most places with any kind of background, and they're actually not even all that quiet in a room with no other noise sources. I can't hear the mini well in my local Apple store, which seems fairly quiet when it's not busy, but take it into a room that actually has very little background noise (e.g. , the room I work in most of the time), and you'll definitely hear it. A big chunk of my noise signature is the high pitch of the momentus HD, but there's also an audible whoosh from the fan as well. I was expecting neither when I got the mini -- most notebook hard drives are inaudible, and I expected the fan to be inaudible as well, if it even turned on.You must be a real stickler for silence. I own a Mac mini and it is really quiet. I am impressed with the noise level. I can hear the HD noise you talk about and when the fans kick into high you can easily tell, but that's not often and even still it's more quiet than most PCs unless you build one to purposely be very quiet. I certainly wouldn't consider the noise level on the mini bad in any way.

As for the entire copying argument. Was this new AOpen machine prompted by the Mac mini? Sure, but who cares - this is business as usual. If Pepsi started selling their soda in one gallon bottles and it sold well, what would Coke do?

A computer is a computer is a computer. You get a Mac to run OS X and/or you can get a PC to run Windows/Linux. If style is very important to you, you'll lean towards Apple probably - but you are going to buy what you need which, I would hope is based more on what you need to do with it, i.e. what software you can run on it. Apple came out with a great SFF design and it was successful, so the x86 market is making their own version to generate money off of the market that wants this type of SFF machine that can be used well as a second/third machine for email and basic computing tasks, or as part of a multimedia system. The design is not as elegant as Apple's but it fills the same basic purpose within the x86 market. It makes perfect business sense, so why all the bitching? This isn't a holy war, it's an industry - it's not about copying and cheating or innovating and pioneering... it's about making your shareholders money. Like it or not, that is what drives the industry.

[Mav451]

Since Mini ~ laptop...you can imagine the sound levels are about the same. I don't know why people are surprised that its quiet. If a laptop had that amount of vertical space to work with, yeah it could definitely reduce noise a bit.

On the other hand, I think what I would really like is a Mini G5. Of course, we won't even start seeing that until well after PBook G5's are out. Pipe dreams...pipe dreams

[Boony]

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised about this, given that it's a mac forum, but it seems weird to me that nobody's really mentioning one of the big pluses that this mac mini ripoff has over the mini : little to no fan noise .
***
Noise is my only complaint with the mini, other than that I absolutely love it. But if this ripoff ran OS X, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat. If they made a ripoff that runs fanless, then I have to say that they've done one better than Apple did. I hope Apple rises to the challenge with the next revision of the mini.

My sister has a nice portable, a pc one, also not so noisy (if you do nothing). But if Microsoft is not doing anything about their buggiest software OS XP, Just put on your shoes and run, run men ..... if you see the "send bug report"-warnings
:o

Oh yes, it's a 2,4 Ghz full pentium IV processor ... but the performance, also because the (anti) malware-spyware-virus programs it runs, is close to mine 667 Mhz G4 :D It's blows a lot that 2,4 Ghz Portable PC

[solvs]

Apple needs to be sued by RIPING off Konfabulator... don't you think? Of course not fanboys!
Whoopsie:

http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/dashboard_vs_konfabulator

Sorry, try again.

[Hugh]

Wow it looks just like a Mini! :eek: Is there any legal action Apple can take?

-Hugh

[Les Kern]

Hmm...
Starts at $599.00 WITHOUT an OS, without apps. Can't put XP Media Center on it because it would jack up the cost too much beyond 599.
See THIS (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23660) link and imagine just how many they will sell. Who in their right mind would plop down hard earned money for it? Not even my most jaded XP-apologist friends are THAT stupid.

[BenRoethig]

Well if it has a pentium M, it's going to be a hell of a lot faster than the Mini. Get it together, Apple.

Apple doesn't have much of a choice as long as we're using PowerPCs, they don't make processors themselves. It's either embedded G4s or Firebreathing G5s. Besides, with intergrated graphics that P-M machine is fairly limited in what it can do.

[5300cs]

I think I know what the 'A' in 'AOpen' stands for.
I believe it comes from a popular insult that drivers yell at each other: "Hey, watch where you're going A******!!" :rolleyes:

Anyway, I like this bit: "The PC is more powerful and popular than Apple systems because of its open architecture -- you can upgrade it. When the PC gets similar to the Mac mini, you have no space to upgrade, and you will lose this advantage," he said.

If making small PCs is not advantageous, then please tell me why you dimwits are making them then??!! Is this just some sort of pathetic show off attempt? If you're going to insult the Mac mini, at least make an original case instead of almost completely copying it :rolleyes:

This isn't just me being an Apple fan boy either; I'm pissed at the sudden influx of cheap rip-off crap from certain countries in Asia. :mad: When I go to pool halls here in Japan, I think I'm playing on a Brunswick table when it'll turn out to be a cheap POS table from China or Korea :mad: Don't even get me started on Chinese-made cues...

[pna]

Since Mini ~ laptop...you can imagine the sound levels are about the same. I don't know why people are surprised that its quiet. If a laptop had that amount of vertical space to work with, yeah it could definitely reduce noise a bit.


It's true -- and that's why I was surprised that it was actually louder than the powerbooks I've used, which make no noise at all. I was expecting silence...

And yes, it's also true that I'm a real stickler for noise. I've spent unbelievable amounts of time (and money, which I don't have much of being a grad student) trying to make silent desktop machines running linux, from watercooling to passively cooled thin clients and on and on. So I was absolutely blown away by the announcement of the Mini, like no other product I've ever seen announced. 500 bucks for something that was exactly what I wanted (silent) and ALSO ran OS X? Unbelievable, and for the first time I had that experience where people elevate Apple designers and execs to deity status.

It was going to be the most fun ever to hang out in the silentpcreview forums, and any time anyone was talking about spending x dollars on x product that would make their rig a little quieter, to just pipe up with a 'Why don't you buy a Mac Mini and be done with it?'... The reality is that if it still makes noise AT ALL, it's still too noisy for lots of folks over there (including me), so there was a bit of disappointment.

I finally just hunted and found a good deal on a used powerbook and took the Mini in to work. Happiness both places, though I'm a little disturbed at how much money I've spent on apple products since first picking up the mini. If you're looking for a 'halo effect' poster child, look no further. Yikes.

[numediaman]

pna, my mini is generally dead quiet -- except when it is encoding / decoding video files (and sometimes audio files). Otherwise, I never hear the fan. Further, when I do hear the fan, it is not too bad -- quieter than my PowerBook.

If you feel your mini is loud, you might want to have it checked out. Some G5 users say their desktops sound like jet engines -- that shouldn't be the case with your mini. Good luck.

[darkwing]

Apple doesn't have much of a choice as long as we're using PowerPCs, they don't make processors themselves. It's either embedded G4s or Firebreathing G5s. Besides, with intergrated graphics that P-M machine is fairly limited in what it can do.

Is the Intel Mini UMA? If so, then the Mini should trounce it nicely for anything graphics related. It'll be interested.

I know it isn't Apple's fault that the processors available to them suck. I usually post things like that to remind people that we're not on top of the world in everything. :)

Steven

[Lancetx]

pna, my mini is generally dead quiet -- except when it is encoding / decoding video files (and sometimes audio files). Otherwise, I never hear the fan. Further, when I do hear the fan, it is not too bad -- quieter than my PowerBook.

Same here, my mini has been far quieter than my previous PowerBook was. The fan doesn't kick on anywhere near as often and even when it does, it's not as loud as the PB was. Anything that's highly RAM or graphics intensive will cause it to fire up far more often though, like when I occassionally use Virtual PC for example.

[swissmann]

Can't anyone else think for themselves anymore.

[MontyZ]

Can't anyone else think for themselves anymore.
I don't know, what do you think I should answer?

[giffut]

... do people talk about feature comparison, when the AOpen and Intel mini pcs are still prototypes and no one really knows how they really perform against the mac mini.

They are planned to be shipped in autumn the earliest, so what is the big deal on this?

I feel trippled by the pc crowd, when first they shouted "uuuh, we don´t need it" and later – after it turned out to be successful – shout back again "la la la, our´s the better one. And we already invented it in the early 19th century".

Think of it like that: The DRM empire Microsoft and Intel in partnership together with AOpen goes out and pirates ideas to the limit in violation of copyrights. They are the ones, who literally copy the world to death.

By the way: Someone should call the MPAA, because some of the mac minis in future movies could be pirated clones ... MPAA doesn´t like that.

[MontyZ]

Maybe Apple should retaliate and make an ugly, beige computer. Oh wait, they've already been down that road.

Okay, well, then maybe they can make OSX Tiger freeze and crash a lot more. Oh wait ... they've already done that, too. Hmmm... Has Bill Gates bought Apple?

[paulsecic]

Do these guys ever have an original idea? I mean really..... :rolleyes:
No. PCs still come with floppy drives!

[FoxyKaye]

What's with the stupid, huge, ugly button in the front?
I dunno, I kind of wish Apple put the power button for the Mini on the front of the machine... They made something that can practically slip between almost anything and put its primary ignition in back where you have to yank the whole machine out of its resting spot to access it. A power button like those on PowerBooks on the front of the Mini (or heck, even on the side toward the front) wouldn't kill the aesthetic too much...

What's with the holes on the top?
OK, now that's fugly. Looks like a colander.

[ksz]

There were 2 mini-PC designs on display at Computex, one at AOpen's booth and the other at Intel's. Much has been said about these copycat designs so I'll just leave a few pictures of my own...

AOpen:
http://www.fototime.com/AA3787B19E80C82/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/CDDF24BE3C62551/standard.jpg

Intel: (Sorry, a bit blurry as the thing was rotating.)
http://www.fototime.com/F9337525D4B8B40/standard.jpg

More pictures from the final day of Computex.
http://www.fototime.com/inv/CD25946F997F88F

[Fukui]

There were 2 mini-PC designs on display at Computex, one at AOpen's booth and the other at Intel's. Much has been said about these copycat designs so I'll just leave a few pictures of my own...

WOW. Intel must REAALY want apple's business. :)

[Mav451]

Ok, as a primary PC user, I'm pretty shocked. I mean, the Lian Li "copycat" design of the G5 was one thing, but it was only VERY similar, not carbon copy.

The AOpen is borderline carbon copy.

[MontyZ]

(Sorry, a bit blurry as the thing was rotating.
I wonder if that thing comes with it's own, rotating hyperbaric chamber as shown in the photo.

[gregoryp]

Now it all makes sense...Mac is going to use Intel chips...the first of which is likely to be in the Mac Mini...hence Intel initiated this proof of concept. No wonder it looks so much like a Mini...it IS next year's Mac Mini! I bet we see this thing on the stage later today.

[ZLurker]

Now it all makes sense...Mac is going to use Intel chips...the first of which is likely to be in the Mac Mini...hence Intel initiated this proof of concept. No wonder it looks so much like a Mini...it IS next year's Mac Mini! I bet we see this thing on the stage later today.
Even if there will be a Intel CPUin it i dont think they will change the look of the Mini.

[feakbeak]

Even if there will be a Intel CPUin it i dont think they will change the look of the Mini.No, they won't change the look of the mini - but I'm sure this probably was a proof of concept done by Intel to show Apple, "Yup, a Pentium-M based Mac mini is feasible."

I find it hilarious, all those Mac zealots crying foul for Intel copying the design when this is probably exactly what Apple ordered from Intel. It is okay now that we know that the design of this machine was probably requested by Apple? It doesn't have the Apple design polish yet, but technically it has everything Apple is looking for.