Sony tests anti-pirate CDs

[MacBytes]

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Category: 3rd Party Hardware
Link: Sony tests anti-pirate CDs (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050531095603)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

[Sharewaredemon]

Ummmm WMA, this means that these CD can probably be ripped in iTunes without a problem?

[mkubal]

As long as audio still comes through your sound card and out your speakers stripped of DRM, you will always be able to make a DRM free copy that sounds good enough for 95% of people. Of course it's arguable that the new dual core chips from Intel with DRM built in might be a step towards changing that. A scary step. :(

[nagromme]

I am opposed to casual piracy.

I am also opposed to non-standard discs that limit my legal use of a disc, and reduce the quality (WMA to AAC conversion) of my iTunes imports.

Neither will be any part of my music listening. This will die the same death as other non-standard anti-piracy "CDs." Quote marks used because this is not the actual "compact disc digital audio" format.

[Dippo]

I guess these discs won't play in my car stereo either.....thanks!

[narco]

We'll have to see if a Sharpie can ruin all these million-dollar anti-piracy technologies once again. Seriously, who makes mass-copies of CDs these days anyway? I wonder what would happen if you tried to make a copy of the copy?

I'm just glad I don't listen to much music on major labels anyway. I've already accepted the fact that downloadable music isn't for me since I love these little, DRM-free "backup" thingies called "compact discs," but it really sucks when I have to worry about CDs now too.

But with the power of the internet, combined with angry consumers who despise how these major labels call them "criminals" in so many words, more people will start paying attention to smaller, indie acts. Crappy radio and lack of music on MTV helps a bit, too.

Fishes,
narco.

[Loge]

So these will be released soon, but they won't say which ones. Very helpful. Do they not get that consumers hate these crippled discs? Or maybe they do, and it's an attempt to kill the CD format, which is just too open for them to stand.

[jettredmont]

http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: 3rd Party Hardware
Link: Sony tests anti-pirate CDs (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050531095603)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Hmmm. Suspicious that they aren't publicizing which Sony artists are having their albums emmasculated. Almost as if they expect people won't buy crap that says its a CD but really isn't compatible with their CD player!

Honestly, folks: if you get one of these, try your damnedest to make a backup copy of it. If you succeed, publicize your method. In any case, return it to the store as defective. If it says "Compact Disc Audio" on it and contains copy protection, it's false advertising. CDA has NO allowance for copy protection. If the store won't take it back, take it up with your local BBB.

Note that this apparently uses Windows Media Player technology to keep the DRM in place. iTunes will be barred from ripping the CD in some way or another, as will all other music players. WMP on the Mac is unlikely to be able to rip the CD either; you'll need to purchase a Windows machine.

On the other hand, from previous run ins with the "First4Internet" DRM ware group, the key enabler here is Windows autorun virus-propagation scheme, so those of us who don't have an autorun-enabled Windows box (meaning, those with Windows boxes and Autorun turned off as the bad idea it is, as well as those with non-Windows machines) may be safe here. We'll have to wait and see.

Ugh, anyways. More money, time, and effort spent keeping the honest people from doing what they have every right to do, but which keeps approximately zero non-honest people from ripping off the record companies and their slave labor by mass-reproducing CDs. Move along, nothing to see here.

[shamino]

Honestly, folks: if you get one of these, try your damnedest to make a backup copy of it. If you succeed, publicize your method. In any case, return it to the store as defective.
Ummm. No. If you return it and keep the tracks you ripped, then you are engaging in piracy. You say Sony is wrong to copy-protect the CDs they publish, but your actions are proving their point.

If someone accuses you of being a pirate, you don't fight them by engaging in piracy.

[840quadra]

As long as audio still comes through your sound card and out your speakers stripped of DRM, you will always be able to make a DRM free copy that sounds good enough for 95% of people. Of course it's arguable that the new dual core chips from Intel with DRM built in might be a step towards changing that. A scary step. :(

heh. I have been known to do that from time to time to get some sound clips. but if you have a G5 and other equipment with optical input and output, the signal stays relatively digital, and you suffer little to no loss. However I ONLY do this for sound clips.. I don't pirate.. I have purchased or received as a CD or Itunes gift, mostly all of the music I own.

[andrewm]

heh. I have been known to do that from time to time to get some sound clips. but if you have a G5 and other equipment with optical input and output, the signal stays relatively digital, and you suffer little to no loss. However I ONLY do this for sound clips.. I don't pirate.. I have purchased or received as a CD or Itunes gift, mostly all of the music I own.

I don't believe in my actions being called 'piracy' if the definition is due to the DMCA or other related acts. I am allowed a backup copy, confound it, and I will fight to retain that right! It's a civil rights issue. Only one copy will be in use at one time, and I don't care a bit what the potential is for my files to make their way into the wide blue yonder of the world wide web.

I acknowledge, however, that there are many other forms of 'piracy.' My legal right to copy (legal, prior to certain copyright acts that shall remain unnamed in this particular paragraph) fits my definition of fair use.

[840quadra]

I don't believe in my actions being called 'piracy' if the definition is due to the DMCA or other related acts. I am allowed a backup copy, confound it, and I will fight to retain that right! It's a civil rights issue. Only one copy will be in use at one time, and I don't care a bit what the potential is for my files to make their way into the wide blue yonder of the world wide web.

I acknowledge, however, that there are many other forms of 'piracy.' My legal right to copy (legal, prior to certain copyright acts that shall remain unnamed in this particular paragraph) fits my definition of fair use.

I agree with what you are saying, and didn't say otherwise. Not sure why you quoted me with a thumbs down?

[iMeowbot]

So these will be released soon, but they won't say which ones. Very helpful. Do they not get that consumers hate these crippled discs?
Not knowing yet would be the best reason for keeping the list of affected titles quiet. You know how various activist groups start boycotting movies without having actually seen them? That's what they would be inviting. Using the "blind" approach they get to feel out if the marketplace will accept this system a little more from actual experience and a little less from ideology.

There are strong hints given in the F4i literature that this system does not make CDs impossible to rip (as they put it, "XCP is designed to give a level of protection that will make it suitably difficult for the general consumer to copy and/or illegally distribute the content of the disc."). It's sold as a speed bump, not a brick wall.

If the system actually does work as F4i suggest, I could live with that. If, on the other hand, it's more intrusive than F4i have implied, then I'll start screaming.
Or maybe they do, and it's an attempt to kill the CD format, which is just too open for them to stand.
Sony co-invented the CD, they must have had an inkling that the computer peripherals they were building would eventually allow that kind of thing :D

[Loge]

I guess the question for many on these forums would be, do these discs rip into iTunes, and transfer to the iPod as normal? If not, then that is just too restrictive. If they do, then how does that prevent casual piracy?

[nagromme]

I guess the question for many on these forums would be, do these discs rip into iTunes, and transfer to the iPod as normal?

No, they wouldn't transfer at full quality if at all. They're already compressed as WMA, and re-ripping would double-compress them.

No thanks.

[iMeowbot]

I guess the question for many on these forums would be, do these discs rip into iTunes, and transfer to the iPod as normal?

It would almost certainly require additional software.

If not, then that is just too restrictive. If they do, then how does that prevent casual piracy?

The hope is that the typical user will be happy to have the pre-encoded tracks transfer so quickly into the jukebox software and only be surprised after a CD they try to burn later isn't a regular CD. The biggest flaw in this will be if Sony haven't worked out permission to use Apple's DRM -- then there are going to be users who notice the problem and complain very quickly!

[shamino]

I don't believe in my actions being called 'piracy' if the definition is due to the DMCA or other related acts. I am allowed a backup copy, confound it, and I will fight to retain that right!
You should actually read the law (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html) before you decide what your "right" is here.

Libraries are granted explicit permission to make backup copies. Individuals have the right to make backup copies of software but not phonorecords (which is what music CDs are). The "fair use" provision has sometimes been interpreted to permit individuals to make backup copies, but this interpretation is in dispute.

Now, one could easily argue that a DRM-protected medium should be categorized as software and not phonorecord, but that's another gray area.
It's a civil rights issue.
Perhaps you should look up what that word means before you use it. Civil rights are your right to be free from government oppression. It has nothing at all to do with what you are and are not allowed to do with a piece of music you purchase.
I acknowledge, however, that there are many other forms of 'piracy.' My legal right to copy (legal, prior to certain copyright acts that shall remain unnamed in this particular paragraph) fits my definition of fair use.
Your "right" is whatever the copyright law says it is.

If you think the law is overly restrictive or otherwise bad, we're in agreement. If you want to deliberately violate it as a form of protest, that's your choice. But don't go around pretending that you have some kind of inalienable right to make backup copies. That's just wishful thinking.

[shamino]

No, they wouldn't transfer at full quality if at all. They're already compressed as WMA, and re-ripping would double-compress them.
If it's an audio CD, then it's not WMA-encoded.

If there are WMA files, then it's a data disc, not an audio CD.

If they are really doing this, then we're looking at some hacked-up version of a multisession CD, where there is a session with audio tracks and a data session with WMA files. Presumably, they're going to play some kind of game to make computers unable to read the audio porton. (Which will likely break many audio players as well.)

This kind of thing has been done before and it doesn't prevent track ripping. It only means you need a way to ignore the data session and read the audio session. Until we actually see one of these discs, we have no way of knowing if this will be easy or hard to do on MacOS.

Assuming you can get the audio session to mount properly, iTunes should rip it just like any other disc.

[Loge]

The biggest flaw in this will be if Sony haven't worked out permission to use Apple's DRM -- then there are going to be users who notice the problem and complain very quickly!

I'd be surprised if Apple did this, which is why I suspect iTunes users will have a hard time with these discs; but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[shamino]

I'd be surprised if Apple did this, which is why I suspect iTunes users will have a hard time with these discs; but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
It will depend on what that disc really is.

If there is an actual CDDA-type audio session (which will be needed for audio players to be able to play the disc) then we'll need a way to see that session. Once it is available, ripping will be no different from anything else.

Historically, some of these "protection" schemes have been trivialy simple (like using a Windows auto-run program to hide the audio session) and some have been really nasty (like violating the CDDA spec in a way that makes computers think there is no audio session. This usually causes many audio players to also think there is no audio session.) All of these schemes have been cracked. Some easily (like holding down SHIFT on disc insertion or disabling auto-run) and some through specialized software.

If there is no CDDA session, then this isn't an audio CD, but a data CD. Since the Mac version of Windows Media Player has no support for DRM-protected files, the disc will be useless on a Mac with any program.

It should be noted that most car stereos with WMA-playback capability also can't play DRM-protected files.

I don't think Sony is going to create a disc that refuses to play on the majority of audio equipment. Most people, believe it or not, still play CDs in CD players, not on their computers.