MW Expo Boston-2004=no Apple [Archive]

evilfunkgenius

Oct 17, 2002, 11:30 AM

If the rumor is true, then it looks as if Apple is debating the benefits of moving to a "lesser" city. (no offence to Bostonians, but New York has a bit more clout).

It might also have to do with all the pro-New York stuff going on since Sept. 11th also. Think about it, Mac is already the underdog, and they might not want to be percieved as pulling out of a "troubled" location -- as far as publicity goes. Plus after the huge XP festival, they need to probably stick around and fight the good fight in the big apple.

Or maybe IDG conferences just pissed someone off in the conference group at Apple and they are being stubborn.

-efg

PROZAKY

Oct 17, 2002, 11:33 AM

There are no apples in Boston.

gotohamish

Oct 17, 2002, 12:11 PM

Remember, it was only last year that Apple attended MacWorld UK, after not bothering for something like 3 or 4 years!

I think they'll do their own show in NYC - and it will rule!:D

gandalf55

Oct 17, 2002, 12:22 PM

holy crap this is weird! i live in boston but prefer NYC for Macworlds. SO MUCH more to do at night, etc. Boston is a pain in the ass to get around, where NYC is super simple. Boston is just as expensive for atendees as NYC.

Apple not being @ a Macworld? Seems impossible. Boston must be something smaller than Macworld... a lot to think Apple wouldn't attend.

Strange days my friends... :confused:

Mr T

Oct 17, 2002, 12:22 PM

Apple can no longer afford to participate in two conventions per year. Their declining market share and lack of new compelling products for the next year or so (No G5) means they don't have much to showcase at events. How many Jaguar demos can Steve do without boring himself and the rest of the world? In the past few years, MacWorld NY has also generated a fair amount of negative buzz. The events have been bombs because their has been no new hardware announcements. Steve's ego must still be reeling from the response he got from the. Mac presentation this year. Last years event was just as bad because Apple did not live up to the rumor mill hype and everyone was way disappointed.

The apple stores are doing well and means they have less need for special PR events.

Apple does not care about leaving NY or going to Boston it is just an excuse to get out of the event.:confused:

multifinder

Oct 17, 2002, 12:24 PM

I guess if Apple's trying to get away from introducing new products at Macworlds, this is one (extreme) way to do it...

Furious Tiger

Oct 17, 2002, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by PROZAKY
There are no apples in Boston.

Just a lot of Gas! (baked beans)

Fat Tony

Oct 17, 2002, 12:32 PM

See. All the bitching and moaning about new products not showing up at MacWorlds has made Steven mad and he's taken his toys away.

bignumbers

Oct 17, 2002, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Mr T
Apple does not care about leaving NY or going to Boston it is just an excuse to get out of the event.:confused:

This can be the only justification other than traditional Apple arrogance. I love going to MacWorld's but they're becoming less important. We have a 365-day MacWorldExpo by using the internet; less reason (not no reason!) to see everything in person.

I was half expecting the shows to change dates. I can't fault Apple for lame announcements at the July show; it's just a bad time to announce products. March/April is probably the best time to announce products for education, and September/October for the retail holiday season. That's when the expos should be if we want to see those juicy announcements.

Furious Tiger

Oct 17, 2002, 12:38 PM

ogun7

Oct 17, 2002, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by bignumbers

This can be the only justification other than traditional Apple arrogance. I love going to MacWorld's but they're becoming less important. We have a 365-day MacWorldExpo by using the internet; less reason (not no reason!) to see everything in person.

I was half expecting the shows to change dates. I can't fault Apple for lame announcements at the July show; it's just a bad time to announce products. March/April is probably the best time to announce products for education, and September/October for the retail holiday season. That's when the expos should be if we want to see those juicy announcements.

I have to agree. The last three MacWorld NY expos I attended were really disappointing as far as new products. The most excited stuff is here on MacRumors and Apple's website.

I live in NYC, and feel that "Silicon Alley" has a higher concentration of graphic artists, broadcasters, television, film and music studios that use Macs than Boston anyway. Just look at the amount of people lined up outside the Apple Store Soho when Jaguar was released. I went to Tekserve (Ye Olde Reliable Mac Shoppe) and even they were crowded. New York just has more Mac based media companies than Boston.

CRMarvin42

Oct 17, 2002, 02:04 PM

I wonder if apple was planning on backing out of Macworld all along or if it really is about NYC vs. Bean town.

If it's about location then Apple should have told those incharge of organizing, that they wouldn't participate if it moved from NYC.

tjwett

Oct 17, 2002, 02:07 PM

that would be a pretty lame MacWorld with no Keynote.

PROZAKY

Oct 17, 2002, 02:12 PM

Yeah,... "Boston-Baked-Apples" just doesn't have that ring to it anyways.

unclepain

Oct 17, 2002, 02:22 PM

My work had sent me to several Macworld shows in NY, but last year I told them not to bother because I learned more from reading about the new stuff on Macsurfer, and I could just watch the keynote on TechTV. Saved my boss TONS of money and made me look like I was taking one for the team. In all actuality, I found it more enjoyable- No outrageous prices, no crowds, no getting up at 5 AM to get a "good seat" for the keynote- no more disappointing seminars that merely brushed over very basic information (including the "Pro Seminars") As it turns out, I didn't really miss anything. It wasn't worth it- I guess Apple feels the same way I did.

I predict MW Boston turns into a swap meet at the old Drive In theater in 3 years.

TechLarry

Oct 17, 2002, 02:23 PM

This is the most bizarre thing I've heard of in years.

Companies posting 45 million dollar losses don't skip their own trade shows!

Well, maybe they can't afford it any more:)

TL

Rocketman

Oct 17, 2002, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Apple announced today that it will NOT be attending the Expo in Boston in 2004. WTH? What is MW without the Stevenote? This is real bad news to me, because I was planning on going to that one as my first one. Dang. I guess I'll have to plan to go to MWSF instead.

Gus

This is wierd on sevceral levels.

The expo is hosted by the same folks as before and they are merely moving BACK to Bosdon after a short hiatus while they BUILD A SUITABLE VENUE. Now that it is built and they are invited back to cristen it this happens.

It is also wierd that Apple would ANNOUNCE they are not going so far in advance. This seems more political than marketing or business. It seems Apple and Jobs is receiving heavy pressure to keep the expo in NY from politicians. On e problem. The expo is attended by Apple not hosted by it!

The facrt that booth space is 35% lower and the associated costs are more than 50% lower should be enough on the basis that lower costs increases vendor participation. I do not know how many "locals" attend, but certainly not a statistically significant number. This is the sort of event people come from all over to attend.

So from Apple's perspective it SHOULD only matter that the venue is suitable, there is plenty of access to travelers, and that vendors can afford to come.

Boston looks to be the right choice from all of these perspectives.

So the anouncement makes NO sense.

Rocketman

Maybe Apple will simply change its mind in a year or so and pretend this announcement never happened, after the politics from NY subside. Hillary and Steve :(

bignumbers

Oct 17, 2002, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by ogun7

I have to agree. The last three MacWorld NY expos I attended were really disappointing as far as new products. The most excited stuff is here on MacRumors and Apple's website.

Just to clarify - although I see some justification, I don't see enough to can the Boston show. Really bizarre, and quite arrogant given the timing.

I suspect Apple is just playing this for something, and it'll work itself out over time. Maybe they're looking for a good discount for space in SF, or at another IDG expo. Maybe they DID want a spring/fall set of expos but IDG wasn't interested.

The short-term PR will be horrid for Apple in the Boston area. I'm in a distant suburb (not close enough to care by distance where the expo is). No mention of the fiasco on the noon news, but good coverage of the announcement (complete with marching band). Tonight's news will surely cover Apple's withdrawal. I can practically see it now, "Apple slights Boston, local businesses lose millions, story at eleven!"

Mayor Menino is probably on the phone with Steve right now trading cusswords.

etoiles

Oct 17, 2002, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by ogun7

I have to agree. The last three MacWorld NY expos I attended were really disappointing as far as new products. The most excited stuff is here on MacRumors and Apple's website.

Exactly, why does Apple still bother to build actual hardware and software when they could focus on releasing juicy rumors and cool wide angle images of empty but 'oh so damn good' looking boxes ?

The world would be a perfect place and we could all rest in peace. It would be called the 'Apple matrix'.
:D :D :D

solvs

Oct 17, 2002, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by Mr T
Apple does not care about leaving NY or going to Boston it is just an excuse to get out of the event.:confused:

I think you hit the nail on the head. That's probably what most of us are thinking. Do they know this far in advance they won't have anything to show? Maybe they'll change their minds when the time comes.

Apple not coming to MacWorld kinda defeats the purpose of having a MacWorld. Who's going to want to come?

"Next up, Adobe and Macromedia have no plans to attend MacWorld Boston. To quote either of them 'Why bother, we didn't really care anyway'. Former Boston Mac owners buy Wintels, expect to be ****ed up the a** anyway. 'At least we can buy more crappy software that won't work and our computers crash much faster, just like everyone else'. News at eleven."

I feel kinda bad for Bostoners now (hehe boSTONERS heh. Sorry, I need sleep). What are the folks at As The Apple Turns gonna do now? Sigh.

Rocketman

Oct 17, 2002, 04:15 PM

One person speculated Steve might be pissed at the backlash from the ,mac announcement. But feedback is something most companies actually wish for. Yes it was agressive and initially negative, but it transitioned to specific desires like keeping one's email address, not being chgarged for more services than are needed or wanted and not beng overcharged because you happen to be a family.

Those issues were mostly well addressed by Apple as were similar concerne swith OS lisencing fees.

But addressed they were AFTER the feedback other suppliers only wish they had. And notable Apple responded within about a DAY, amazing for a big corporation with millions of customers, perhaps unprecidented.

Then they received DOUBLE the .mac subscriptions they anticipated. Great!

So Steve should calm down and take a few lumps. Maybe Apple should still provide the posters and perception support and have a 10x20 booth like everyone else.
:)

Rocketman

MrMacMan

Oct 17, 2002, 04:16 PM

Wow that makes no sense.... I mean apple wanting to stay in NYC and IDG trying to move it... bah. Since apple money goes into the expo apple will winout, it is just a Stupid move by IDG, losing them money.

suzerain

Oct 17, 2002, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Rocketman

The expo is hosted by the same folks as before and they are merely moving BACK to Bosdon after a short hiatus while they BUILD A SUITABLE VENUE.

Maybe that's how you were looking at it, but I think Apple was looking at it as moving to a "real" city.

Let's see...NYC is the center of the East Coast television industry. NYC is the center of the East Coast film industry. NYC is the center of the national publishing industry.

NYC is perhaps the world center for journalism.

And Boston? It is the center of what, exactly?

It seems Apple and Jobs is receiving heavy pressure to keep the expo in NY from politicians.

Why can't Jobs want this on his own?

The facrt that booth space is 35% lower and the associated costs are more than 50% lower should be enough on the basis that lower costs increases vendor participation. I do not know how many "locals" attend, but certainly not a statistically significant number. This is the sort of event people come from all over to attend.

So from Apple's perspective it SHOULD only matter that the venue is suitable, there is plenty of access to travelers, and that vendors can afford to come.

First of all: if I'm not mistaken, attendance at MWNY was higher in NYC every single year than it EVER was in Boston. More to the point: it was attended by more "important" people as well: reporters from NY Times, WSJ, etc. Likewise. Steve has been able to follow up his keynotes with immediate interviews on CNN and CNBC.

I know that most of the Mac shops here in the city (and there are a ton), would just sort of let everyone go. And most of 'em would come back with something (a game, a pocket hard drive, etc.)

As far as I can tell, the mainstream media could really care less what Symantec announces at Macworld, or Adobe, or Macromedia. They care what Apple announces, and Apple will get a hell of a lot more press in NYC.

And without Apple, Macworld will be sort of useless.

Boston looks to be the right choice from all of these perspectives.

So the anouncement makes NO sense.

I guess it's just differing opinions, but I never understood Boston in the first place. (And I grew up about an hour and 20 minutes away.)

I say kudos to Apple for this. They're already perceived as a "niche player". Having their expo in a second-rate city only exacerbates that problem.

gbojim

Oct 17, 2002, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by suzerain

First of all: if I'm not mistaken, attendance at MWNY was higher in NYC every single year than it EVER was in Boston. More to the point: it was attended by more "important" people as well: reporters from NY Times, WSJ, etc. Likewise. Steve has been able to follow up his keynotes with immediate interviews on CNN and CNBC.

Bingo. Apple has received more mainstream exposure after convincing IDG to move the summer MacWorld to NY than every before. From a marketing perspective, it was one of the smartest things they ever did.

rugby

Oct 17, 2002, 05:35 PM

Screw them all, Mac World Chicago!;)

badika

Oct 17, 2002, 06:49 PM

If it's about location then Apple should have told those incharge of organizing, that they wouldn't participate if it moved from NYC. [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed. This public airing of dirty laundry and bad feelings is immature and a waste of headline space. Some people at IDG and Apple aren't keeping an eye on their zealous employees.

Or, maybe Logan can't handle long term parking for a Gulfstream? hmmm

j763

Oct 17, 2002, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by rugby
Screw them all, Mac World Chicago!;)

sounds good to me :D

touchsky

Oct 17, 2002, 07:04 PM

Suzerain, I said it back in the other thread but I think you put it more eloquently. I totally agree. So do my contacts at Apple. Doesn't matter what the reason is or why they changed their minds, looks like Steve thought it was a bad idea or at least one that would create enough controversy so that he could use it on his behalf.

As far as the 45mil loss is meaningless....
"Standard & Poor's does not expect current earnings weakness to have an impact on Apple's ratings. Despite flat revenues and a declining income trend over the past four quarters, Apple has maintained cash balances in excess of $4 billion and a strong balance sheet. Apple's liquidity provides it with the financial flexibility to weather difficult market conditions and depressed IT spending. However, Standard & Poor's rating and outlook incorporate the assumption that Apple will maintain positive EBITDA and cash balances of about $4 billion."

ogun7

Oct 17, 2002, 07:20 PM

suzerain just empasized my earlier post about NYC having the highest concentration of industries that Mac-oriented than Boston; art & design, publishing, recording industry, film, broadcasting, not to mention journalism.

Apple does receive more attention from the mainstream media when the show is here, eventhough it's smart of them not to limit product announcements to expos.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 17, 2002, 08:42 PM

But could this 'no show' anouncement force a change of venue back to NYC? This seems quite silly to me that Apple would want to get this active in choosing a place for the conference - it just doesn't makes sense and makes Apple look like a spoiled kid.

redAPPLE

Oct 18, 2002, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by TechLarry
This is the most bizarre thing I've heard of in years.

Companies posting 45 million dollar losses don't skip their own trade shows!

Well, maybe they can't afford it any more:)

TL

AND IT IS ALL MOTOROLA'S FAULT ;)

... oh well... got to get an apple for breakfast...

redAPPLE

Oct 18, 2002, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by rugby
Screw them all, Mac World Chicago!;)

Screw them all, MacWorld Tempe!

Rocketman

Oct 18, 2002, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by ogun7
suzerain just empasized my earlier post about NYC having the highest concentration of industries that Mac-oriented than Boston; art & design, publishing, recording industry, film, broadcasting, not to mention journalism.

Apple does receive more attention from the mainstream media when the show is here, even though it's smart of them not to limit product announcements to expos.

I see this point and agree with it. But what about the other 250 exhibitors. Aren't they just put further in the ether by Apple dominating the press at such an event?

How is a third party vendor to get exposure (effectively)? That seems to be the main point of an Apple Expo. Third party products.

Rocketman

macsurfer

Oct 18, 2002, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Rocketman

I see this point and agree with it. But what about the other 250 exhibitors. Aren't they just put further in the ether by Apple dominating the press at such an event?

How is a third party vendor to get exposure (effectively)? That seems to be the main point of an Apple Expo. Third party products.

Rocketman

So somehow you think that the other 250 exhibitors would magically get more media exposure and make more PR gains in a city with LESS media and LESS media business? You're not really thinking. MAYBE they could get more press ANYWHERE if Apple pulled out of the expos, but only MAYBE and IF Apple pulled out, and even if Apple DID pull out it would STILL be more beneficial to third party exhibitors to attend a show in media rich New York minus Apple than in Boston.

djcobb44

Oct 18, 2002, 03:11 PM

I bet Micheal Dell, Bill Gates are laughing over the news. If Apple keeps putting its pride above its users and developers then Micheal Dell-Gates will end up with more new customers. Apple isn't getting its way, so now they are throwing a fit. This is not the kind of publicity Apple needs right now. I say to Apple and Jobs, "Swallow your pride and just do it."

Rower_CPU

Oct 18, 2002, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by redAPPLE
Screw them all, MacWorld Tempe!

Screw them all, MacWorld San Diego!!! :D

Multimedia

Oct 18, 2002, 07:16 PM

I live on the West Coast near Cupertino. I attended every MacWorld Boston since the first one in summer of 1985. When IDG moved it to NYC, I stopped wanting to attend it. Now that it is returning to Boston, I plan on attending again in July 2004. I don't understand why Apple doesn't like this move. There are far more Macs per capita in the Boston area than there are in New York City. Boston is a Macintosh town. New York City is not. What the hell is going on?

There must be some money thing going on about this move that IDG and Apple are not telling us. Boston is a much more user friendly place than New York City. Crazy.

Multimedia

Oct 18, 2002, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by PROZAKY
There are no apples in Boston.

There are more Macs in the Boston area per capita than in the New York City area per capita.

You don't know your MacWorld Expo History. The New York Expo was an aberation. Boston is the real home of MacWorld Expo East. 1985-1996 or so. All you New York whiners should start your own New York show and see how far you get with their overpriced Javits Center and the AFL-CIO graft.

Multimedia

Oct 18, 2002, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by suzerain

Maybe that's how you were looking at it, but I think Apple was looking at it as moving to a "real" city.

Let's see...NYC is the center of the East Coast television industry. NYC is the center of the East Coast film industry. NYC is the center of the national publishing industry.

NYC is perhaps the world center for journalism.

And Boston? It is the center of what, exactly?

Why can't Jobs want this on his own?

First of all: if I'm not mistaken, attendance at MWNY was higher in NYC every single year than it EVER was in Boston. More to the point: it was attended by more "important" people as well: reporters from NY Times, WSJ, etc. Likewise. Steve has been able to follow up his keynotes with immediate interviews on CNN and CNBC.

I know that most of the Mac shops here in the city (and there are a ton), would just sort of let everyone go. And most of 'em would come back with something (a game, a pocket hard drive, etc.)

As far as I can tell, the mainstream media could really care less what Symantec announces at Macworld, or Adobe, or Macromedia. They care what Apple announces, and Apple will get a hell of a lot more press in NYC.

And without Apple, Macworld will be sort of useless.

I guess it's just differing opinions, but I never understood Boston in the first place. (And I grew up about an hour and 20 minutes away.)

I say kudos to Apple for this. They're already perceived as a "niche player". Having their expo in a second-rate city only exacerbates that problem.

Boston is NOT a second rate city. It is the world capital of global intelligence. I was going to Boston MacWorlds since 1985 and it was always the best. New York City doesn't own the title of first rate city. San Francisco is to Boston as Los Angeles is to New York City. Boston is the logical place for the east Expo to be held. This is obviously a case of perception. If you life in New York City you think it is the center of the universe. If you live in San Francisco you know it is the \center of the universe and Boston is the obvious counterpart city in the East. Harvard, MIT, Cambridge. I have always thought that the New York City MacWorld was a mistake. I don't understand why anyone would want to go the the NYC show.

So there are those of us who are going to want this move and those of us who think it's insane. Great. We think different.

prewwii

Oct 18, 2002, 09:26 PM

[i]Agreed. This public airing of dirty laundry and bad feelings is immature and a waste of headline space. Some people at IDG and Apple aren't keeping an eye on their zealous employees.

Or, maybe Logan can't handle long term parking for a Gulfstream? hmmm [/B]

One state down Forty Nine to go.... with the help of Apple legal this shouldn't take long.

daRAT

Oct 18, 2002, 10:42 PM

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0210/17.macworldexpo.php For IDG's comments on Apple pulling out.

FYI

macsurfer

Oct 19, 2002, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Multimedia
Boston is a much more user friendly place than New York City. Crazy.

Give me a ****ing break... NYC has the best public transportation system in the world 24hrs a day and by the way has the ONLY subway system in the world that has four track express service (in fact I believe that it is one of the only, if not THE only system that is 24hrs even).

macsurfer

Oct 19, 2002, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Multimedia

Boston is NOT a second rate city. It is the world capital of global intelligence. I was going to Boston MacWorlds since 1985 and it was always the best. New York City doesn't own the title of first rate city. San Francisco is to Boston as Los Angeles is to New York City. Boston is the logical place for the east Expo to be held. This is obviously a case of perception. If you life in New York City you think it is the center of the universe. If you live in San Francisco you know it is the \center of the universe and Boston is the obvious counterpart city in the East. Harvard, MIT, Cambridge. I have always thought that the New York City MacWorld was a mistake. I don't understand why anyone would want to go the the NYC show.

So there are those of us who are going to want this move and those of us who think it's insane. Great. We think different.

Give me ANOTHER ****ing break. I'd sooner equate SFO with Chicago than *Boston* Oh and SFO being the center of the Universe? LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....ummmm..okay. The two most important cities in this country are NYC first and L.A. second. I love San Francisco, but it sure as hell isn't the "center of the universe". And Boston? Please. It has MIT and Harvard. BIG DEAL (I'll throw in BC and BU to help you out, not "Ivy League", but...). Yale is in New Haven, CT, Columbia is in NYC and Princeton is in New Jersey, so actually NYC has more Ivy Leauge schools in the greater NYC Metropolitan area than Boston. Where is Brown? Massachusets? Why NO it's in Rhode Island!!! The fact is that the majority of Ivy Leauge schools are located OUTSIDE of Boston *not* in Boston. Get your head out of your butt and look at the reality of the cities positions....

(P.S. lets not forget the prescence of NYU, The New School, SUNY Stonybrook, even Hunter...not "Ivy League", but if you want to talk about higher education in general...)

Go ahead. Try to make a case that SFO is the "center of the universe" (God, that still cracks me up) and that Boston is the "world capital" of intelligence, I'll shoot down every one of your assertions.