WWDC Keynote Summary

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

During today's opening keynote speech at the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco, Steve Jobs made a number of announcements. The transition to Intel was of course the most important, and is covered in a separate MacRumors news story (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/06/20050606143135.shtml).

Among the other announcements, fact, and figures, were the following:

The next Mac OS X will be named Leopard and will be out in late 2006 or early 2007.

QuickTime, with its H.264 video codec, is available for Windows starting today. QuickTime has been downloaded over 1 billion times.

There are a million visitors a week to Apple's 109 retail stores. $500 million worth of third-party products have been sold in the last year.

iPods have over 75% market share among ALL players, with 16 million sold. iTunes has a 82% market share this month and the share is growing. The iTunes Music store has sold 430 million songs. iTunes is adding podcasting support, to take podcasting mainstream, because it is "TiVo for radio" and "the hottest thing going in radio", with 8,000 podcasts and more all the time.

Mac sales have grown 40% in the most recent quarter, in contrast to PC sales growth of about 10%.

Two million copies of Tiger will have been sold by sometime this week. Over 15% of Mac users are now on Tiger, with 50% of the installed base expected to be on Tiger within the next year.

The developer community has grown to a half million Developer Connection members. There are over 400 Dashboard widgets now available, over 40 Spotlight plug-ins, and over 550 Automator programs.

UPDATE: A quicktime video stream of the keynote speech is now available: http://stream.apple.akadns.net/

[Zeekium]

so should i buy a iMac G5 or wait until next year?

[Whistleway]

so should i buy a iMac G5 or wait until next year?

Yup. Same here :( *confused with all this techno jumbo*

[ToddW]

the big transition to intel won't happen until late 2007. if you are going to plan on having a computer for the next few years I would go ahead and buy. I am thinking of a laptop this year, so I will probably get an ibook even if the updates don't come. if you are going to use something for three years or so I say go ahead. This is going to be a big transition and I'm sure Apple will support its PPC users for years to come.

[Chimera]

I'm guessing that the G5 desktops will be replaced last as there is no current Intel technology good enough to beat the G5. However for laptops the Pentium M is a much better chip than the G4. I'd go out and buy an iMac for sure.

[DakotaGuy]

I WOULD NOT purchase any Mac until next year now, unless there is NO WAY possible to hold out and then I would pick up a dirt cheap G4 or G5 on eBay. My guess is all PPC Macs will be bargins on eBay. I can feel the value of the iMac G5 in front of me...falling by the second. Oh well, it was going to happen sooner or later.

Steve left a lot of unanswered questions. I would be very leery to purchase anything at this time.

I like how he said we have some great and exciting products in the PowerPC pipeline...he only says this because he knows the kind of losses Apple Computer, Inc. is going to take over the next year or two. I don't think you will see one PowerPC upgrade until next year, it won't matter what they do, it won't sell.

[bosrs1]

I'm guessing that the G5 desktops will be replaced last as there is no current Intel technology good enough to beat the G5. However for laptops the Pentium M is a much better chip than the G4. I'd go out and buy an iMac for sure.
I agree. Anyone buying a desktop should do so. There is no reason to wait. However if you're buying a laptop I'd wait. The G4 is too old and too slow. The Centrino Macs will own.

[DakotaGuy]

I agree. Anyone buying a desktop should do so. There is no reason to wait. However if you're buying a laptop I'd wait. The G4 is too old and too slow. The Centrino Macs will own.

I could not disagree more. If you do it now you will be very dissapointed in a year when you are sitting with a year old "dead platform." That is my opinion, consumers can spend their money however they wish.

[recursivejon]

So what am I supposed to do with the 2.5Ghz MP G5 that i spent a few grand on last fall that no one is going to develop software for / take advantage of?

********

- apple user since age 2

[DakotaGuy]

So what am I supposed to do with the 2.5Ghz MP G5 that i spent a few grand on last fall that no one is going to develop software for / take advantage of?

********

- apple user since age 2

Sorry dude, you still have a nice computer. You are not alone everyone elses Macs resale value just hit the floor.

[zelmo]

so should i buy a iMac G5 or wait until next year?

Sure, if you need a computer. The first x86 Macs are a year away, per Steve. Even then, Apple will have to support PPC-based Macs for years down the road. Rosetta emulation will allow x86 h/w to run PPC s/w, so you won't lose that s/w investment. Future software, at least for a while, will be binary to run on either system architecture.

OS X and great hardware design are what I like about Apple. As long as it's still OS X, and it still has the same level of security, who cares what label is on the processor?

I wonder, though. Had IBM been able to get the PPC to 3.0GHz this year, would Steve had held off on this announcement for another year? Probably not, since the laptop line has really gotten stagnant as a result of no low-heat, low-power G5 chip.

[gugy]

I just can't believe we have not seen any product announcement.
we are ****ed!
I feel really bad in buying a computer that I need so badly. I can't wait anymore. I guess I'll buy a 2ghz PowerMac on ebay. That's so bad!
Apple will lose tons of sales in the upcoming months.

[lopresmb]

Here it is --- the press reaease from Apple - detailing how Mac's will use INTEL processors.....

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html


---I still can't believe it :confused:

[Chimera]

I could not disagree more. If you do it now you will be very dissapointed in a year when you are sitting with a year old "dead platform." That is my opinion, consumers can spend their money however they wish.

But Apple said it will take upto 2 years and desktops may have to wait until late 2007!! I think current PPC chips will be supported by software devs for at least 4 years to come, seriously those G5s will probably be hardly updated in the next year and a half.

[slb]

Jobs said that they'd be selling Intel-based Macs by this time next year. It's hard to justify shelling out for an iMac G5 knowing that Macs will be running on faster Intels just twelve months away.

[x_Viper_x]

so should I get my powerbook now? since if they prob wont release G5's until intel?

[javiercr]

I agree. Anyone buying a desktop should do so. There is no reason to wait. However if you're buying a laptop I'd wait. The G4 is too old and too slow. The Centrino Macs will own.

a centrino and pentium Ms are more or less based on a pentium iii which is from the same generation as the g4, the difference is that intel is moving ahead with new stuff for laptop and the G series aren't going anywhere in that direction. I have a G4 1.3 and a pentium M 1.8, i have to say that the pentium M is very good for power consumption and keeping cold.

[iJaz]

Jobs said that they'd be selling Intel-based Macs by this time next year. It's hard to justify shelling out for an iMac G5 knowing that Macs will be running on faster Intels just twelve months away.
Hmm, you say faster Intel-based Macs, Apple doesn't seem to agree!
http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

[stephenli]

yes i cant disagreed that we have wait for sooooooo lonnnggggg to have a Powerbook G5. Yet, PowerMac G5 dual 2.7Ghz is still significantly faster than 3.6Ghz dual xeon based system, according to apple.

Then, what would intel give us?!
itanium for XServe?
Pentium D for PowerMac & and Pentium M for Powerbook?

well, let me order a dual 2.7 tomorrow.

[DakotaGuy]

Jobs said that they'd be selling Intel-based Macs by this time next year. It's hard to justify shelling out for an iMac G5 knowing that Macs will be running on faster Intels just twelve months away.

I agree, I feel stupid shelling out the money 3 months ago for this iMac G5. I agree, it will run into the future, for awhile, but by next year if I buy an Intel Mac, this one will be dumpster material. No one is going to pay a few hundred (or thousands new) for a computer that has no future.

I think this is a positive for Apple maybe in a few years, but over the short term, it is going to be hell for them. Sales will take a huge slide. Also, what they offer now is what will be offered for the next year. I don't think they will put one dime into a "dead platform."

[gugy]

I would feel very uncomfortable to buy any G4 based powerbook now. Macmini is ok because it's cheap anyway, but shelling good money for a g4 powerbook seems suicide to me.
I need a computer badly and I was waiting for a PB g5 today. i guess i'll buy the cheapest dual processor powermac and wait for something better next year.
I really don't care if Apple chosed Intel. IBM screwed up anyway. so get rid of them before they make more damage. Hopefully now Apple will keep up with more sounding upgrades.

[DakotaGuy]

Hmm, you say faster Intel-based Macs, Apple doesn't seem to agree!
http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

Yeah I know...that is the FUNNIEST website on the world wide web right now! Oh Apple you crack me up sometimes. Please if anyone on here works for Apple have that site taken down. It makes you look like a huge hypocrite and really makes your choice of Intel look pretty dumb to the average consumer.

[xli_ne]

Hmm, you say faster Intel-based Macs, Apple doesn't seem to agree!
http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

apple's marketing team is going to have a fun year or so. All that "wintel" bashing and now they have to say that intel is they way to go. O well. Have fun with that.

[DakotaGuy]

I would feel very uncomfortable to buy any G4 based powerbook now. Macmini is ok because it's cheap anyway, but shelling good money for a g4 powerbook seems suicide to me.
I need a computer badly and I was waiting for a PB g5 today. i guess i'll buy the cheapest dual processor powermac and wait for something better next year.
I really don't care if Apple chosed Intel. IBM screwed up anyway. so get rid of them before they make more damage. Hopefully now Apple will keep up with more sounding upgrades.

Just get a CHEAP slightly used 1.5 or 1.67Ghz Powerbook. There will be bargin prices coming on those in the next few weeks and months. Imagine a nice 15" Powerbook for $500 slightly used. This should be a good time to get one of those Powerbooks for a Mac Mini like price. You should be happy if you are in the market right now.

[iGary]

http://images.apple.com/powermac/performance/images/photoshop20050427.jpg

[iJaz]

I agree, I feel stupid shelling out the money 3 months ago for this iMac G5. I agree, it will run into the future, for awhile, but by next year if I buy an Intel Mac, this one will be dumpster material. No one is going to pay a few hundred (or thousands new) for a computer that has no future.

I think this is a positive for Apple maybe in a few years, but over the short term, it is going to be hell for them. Sales will take a huge slide. Also, what they offer now is what will be offered for the next year. I don't think they will put one dime into a "dead platform."
Say that to people who pay lots of money for dual 1.42 G4 PowerMacs on eBay just because it runs Mac OS 9...

[FriarCrazy]

Hmm, you say faster Intel-based Macs, Apple doesn't seem to agree!
http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/
Web page saved. Thanks firefox!

[iGary]

Well, I WAS a new PM customer this coming fall....

[DakotaGuy]

iGary...THANKS for that graphic...

So today Steve was showing off OSX on a P4 that is 98% slower then what they offer now and trying to say it is a great improvement? Huh? Wow...talk about a flip-flop.

[wdlove]

In other big news 10.5 will have code name Leopard. Will just have to wait on my choice of Lion until next time.

[DakotaGuy]

Say that to people who pay lots of money for dual 1.42 G4 PowerMacs on eBay just because it runs Mac OS 9...

Sorry if you think that your PowerPC Mac is going to gain value from this announcement, you are dreaming. (Not trying to be a smart-a** just telling you how it is.)

There are a few people still holding out on OS9 for whatever reason. This will be MUCH different then that. I also didn't think a 1.42Ghz PM could run OS9. Could they?

[DakotaGuy]

In other big news 10.5 will have code name Leopard. Will just have to wait on my choice of Lion until next time.

Do you think that Leopard will be x86 only? Any one care to take a stab at this? If they do make it compatible with G4 and G5's I doubt it will be optimized for them.

[ChrisBrightwell]

So the rumors are true. Apple is moving to Intel chips.

Intel-based Macs next year. Full transition "done" in two years.

Big deal.

For me, Apple is about the software. OS X, Final Cut, iLife, iWork, and all that goes with it. It's simple, fast, and intuitive -- but it's powerful. That's what brough me to OS X in the first place.

So ... what about hardware? Sure, my Powerbook rules. But I'd love to have been able to dual-boot OS X and XP on my PC @ the house. I won't be able to do that, even with Mac OS X on x86 That would be technological suicide, unless Apple plans to pull a Sega and transition in the a software company that makes iPods.

OS X 10.5 will be named "Leopard" (blech) and should ship approx the same time as Longhorn.

That puts Apple in an interesting position. If they open OS X to run on any homebrew machine, Windows stands a serious risk of losing several dozen percentage points of marketshare. If Apple manages to get 10.5 in place for Longhorn *AND* can drop hardware prices to match what a new PC to run Longhorn would cost, they may still be able to pull off the coup.

Apple says they're gunning for users. I'm not so sure about that.

Either way, compeition is a good thing. I'm curious to see how all this plays out.

[wdlove]

Do you think that Leopard will be x86 only? Any one care to take a stab at this? If they do make it compatible with G4 and G5's I doubt it will be optimized for them.

With so many Mac's currently in use, don't see how they could abandon them. IMHO it would also hurt sales of Leopard.

[redAPPLE]

so should i buy a iMac G5 or wait until next year?

buy now.

[iJaz]

Sorry if you think that your PowerPC Mac is going to gain value from this announcement, you are dreaming. (Not trying to be a smart-a** just telling you how it is.)

There are a few people still holding out on OS9 for whatever reason. This will be MUCH different then that. I also didn't think a 1.42Ghz PM could run OS9. Could they?
I did NOT say that I think that my PowerPC Mac is going to gain value from this announcement! Where did you read that? (are you dreaming? ;)) However, I am arguing your bold statement that Macs resale value just hit the floor. Give some evidence for that please.
And yes, I meant the 1.25GHz G4 running Mac OS 9, not the 1.42GHz.

[Zeekium]

How long does everyone think before prices go down? if it's going to be like 2 months then i'll just buy a cheap eMac to hold me over for a couple years...

[Jaffa Cake]

Do you think that Leopard will be x86 only?They wouldn't dare.

[Philoman]

Many of us are jaded by the intel news including myself.

Someone mentioned that the value of macs will drop, but that is nothing new. Any computer that is more than 12 months drop in price substantially. You would also see a difference in OS in 12 month period. Look at OSX 10.2, 10.3 and 10.4.

Would you install 10.2 on your machine now? I would say no. So regardless whether it is PPC or intel, it does not matter. When it ages, they all become obsolete.

As for the hardware purchase, get it now if you need it for school and work. If you can be more productive, buy the machine so you save time or earn more money. This is not for people who just want a faster computer and use work as an excuse to get a faster machine. That is "wanting" not "needing"

As for the hobbiest and techies who is "wanting," I'm sure they can wait unless they want to play games with faster refresh rate. But holding off for 2 years for a new machine to relase is inflicting self punishment.

Just enjoy and use your machines to the fullest for the next 2 years and you will have no regets on the machines you have purchased or will be buying to use productively for the next 2 years. Stop worring and enjoy what it can do for you now!

[Prom1]

I too was in denial!

Abercrombieboy, I got a serious feeling that PowerMacs & other last gen iMac G5s before both goto Intel cpu's will be selling like MAD. ebay prices will skyrocket. Its a serious turnaround event in history for Apple. :confused: :eek:

I got this sinking feeling, that everyone in the computer industry is against Apple. Heres my point: Apple, IBM, Motorola all formed the AIM Alliance; the 1st generation of cpu's from Motorola insulted Apple Corporation & its customers (remember the promised 450/500/550Mhz cpu's, instead shipped 400/450/500Mhz at the same price)!! The second generation was very powerful and made incredible headlines - Intel even felt ashamed of their own offerings at the time. Ever since then, stagnation - no matter how you look at it. Same repeat story with IBM: 1st generation was ok & impressive, the second generation was sweet - although Steve & customers got screwed (instead of 1st generation like with Moto/Freescale). Now we're going with Intel??

Intel will surely make good on 1st/2nd generation cpu's, but when customers aren't switching in hopeful numbers to Apple, or shall I say when customers dont upgrade quickly on Mac, the cork-screw from Intel will begin. Jobs basically said that current products are not the best hardware for their customers; so when this rollover doesnt pan out then they will have nowhere to turn. I'm hoping for the best but I worry.

I'm still buying an iMac rev B but to which date should I expect new software, being developed for the G5; will we still see "G5 cpu running at 1.8Ghz required" ?? We barely see it for G3 cpu's.

[redAPPLE]

yes i cant disagreed that we have wait for sooooooo lonnnggggg to have a Powerbook G5. Yet, PowerMac G5 dual 2.7Ghz is still significantly faster than 3.6Ghz dual xeon based system, according to apple.

Then, what would intel give us?!
itanium for XServe?
Pentium D for PowerMac & and Pentium M for Powerbook?

well, let me order a dual 2.7 tomorrow.

this is exactly what i hate. SPIN. yesterday, they were the bad guys, now intel is the good guy? steve should change his name to benedict arnold.

[Badradio]

Apple software will have to ship in two flavours for the forseeable future. Video production houses, graphic designers - they're not going to upgrade all of their systems just to be able to run the latest versions of FCP, Motion, PS, etc. Apple will have to support their core users (not the biggerbetterfaster crowd moaning about the lack of the G5 pB they need for taking notes in class) for at least 5 years. Dropping the media industries in the transition would be commercial suicide.
For the first time in a while I'm not worrying about my new iMac being outdated soon - not when the next systems are going to be a step backwards.

[mac-er]

I think this thread is supposed to be about the non-Intel based things in the keynote..there is another thread to discuss Intel.

So..wow..another OS upgrade..hopefully at the same time as Longhorn.

What do you think will be the big features in it (besides Intel stuff)?

[redAPPLE]

What do you think will be the big features in it (besides Intel stuff)?

i hope not viruses.

[propropro]

I feel full of FUD




For how long will we have native soft for our recently bought PPC Macs? I think this is the biggest problem of all
:confused:

On the other hand, I see the swich as a logical, evolutionary and well needed step. I bought a Mac for its usability, integration and design regardless of what chips are inside. I only hope PPC native software contiune to be developed for years to come

[DakotaGuy]

I too was in denial!

Abercrombieboy, I got a serious feeling that PowerMacs & other last gen iMac G5s before both goto Intel cpu's will be selling like MAD. ebay prices will skyrocket. Its a serious turnaround event in history for Apple. :confused: :eek:

Intel will surely make good on 1st/2nd generation cpu's, but when customers aren't switching in hopeful numbers to Apple, or shall I say when customers dont upgrade quickly on Mac, the cork-screw from Intel will begin. Jobs basically said that current products are not the best hardware for their customers; so when this rollover doesnt pan out then they will have nowhere to turn. I'm hoping for the best but I worry.

I'm still buying an iMac rev B but to which date should I expect new software, being developed for the G5; will we still see "G5 cpu running at 1.8Ghz required" ?? We barely see it for G3 cpu's.

Just to comment on three statements you made. I don't see G5 values skyrocketing I still see them dropping. People will worry what they are buying will NOT be able to run future generations of OSX and programs.

The positive for Apple going with Intel is that they will be running the exact system that Dell, Gateway, Sony, eMachines, etc are running. There will always be tons of demand for an Intel chip because all the PC makers use them. This will solve the problem with Apple falling behind on chip speeds once and for all.

I LOVE my iMac G5. It is fast and works very well. I think it is still a great computer, but I hesitate to fully embrace your decision to buy one right now knowing there is a completely new one in a year or less.

Last, my own comment. We won't have anything but this transistion to talk about over the next year. I doubt we will see any PowerPC improvements. Apple has surely stopped funding all PPC development and is spending all their money and time on Intel.

They could come out with a 2Ghz Powerbook G4 tomorrow or a 3Ghz PowerMac and they would not sell worth a darn, so why waste the money on upgrades?

[DakotaGuy]

What do you think will be the big features in it (besides Intel stuff)?

www.dell.com

That should give you an idea of what big features will be coming on it. Basically what you see there in a nicer box running Mac OSX.

[840quadra]

I agree, I feel stupid shelling out the money 3 months ago for this iMac G5. I agree, it will run into the future, for awhile, but by next year if I buy an Intel Mac, this one will be dumpster material. No one is going to pay a few hundred (or thousands new) for a computer that has no future.

I think this is a positive for Apple maybe in a few years, but over the short term, it is going to be hell for them. Sales will take a huge slide. Also, what they offer now is what will be offered for the next year. I don't think they will put one dime into a "dead platform."

Apple like ALL computer companies are continually making faster and faster hardware advancements. Look at it this way, after you bought your iMac G5, apple came out with a faster 2.0 GHZ version that has NOTHING to do with Intel. Don't feel stupid in regards to your decision, and people needing a new Macintosh, don't punish yourself because you are afraid of change.

I may be one of few people with this thought, but I doubt that the prices on G5 and G4 systems will tank any time soon.

Apple sounds committed to making the transition smooth, and to keep the current and future customer base happy. Apple has learned from its transition from 68k to 60X, and again from 60X to G3. If ANY company can do this well, it will be Apple. They have the most experience in massive changes.

[840quadra]

Apple software will have to ship in two flavours for the forseeable future. Video production houses, graphic designers - they're not going to upgrade all of their systems just to be able to run the latest versions of FCP, Motion, PS, etc. Apple will have to support their core users (not the biggerbetterfaster crowd moaning about the lack of the G5 pB they need for taking notes in class) for at least 5 years. Dropping the media industries in the transition would be commercial suicide.
For the first time in a while I'm not worrying about my new iMac being outdated soon - not when the next systems are going to be a step backwards.

no it will ship with Fat binaries, and utilize technology that apple is working on to make the software run on BOTH intel and PowerPC chips. This topic (of sorts) is noted on the keynote coverage.

[baummer]

They could come out with a 2Ghz Powerbook G4 tomorrow or a 3Ghz PowerMac and they would not sell worth a darn, so why waste the money on upgrades?

I find your logic flawed, while I do understand your position. However, 1-2 years is a long time from now. I would purchase those machines if they were available tomorrow. And then in 1-2 years, as I'm willing to bet most users would do, purchase the new Intel based Apples then and recycle the older machines. I honestly think a lot of people are WAY overreacting to this announcement. That's just my opinion though.

[~loserman~]

iMac= Intel puts the "i" in iMac

Matel= Kind of like the toy company..... hehe


Seriously IMO this marks the death toll for Apple hardware.
Why anyone would continue to buy Mac's (with INTEL Inside) for a higher price than a Compaq/HP... Dell....Toshiba... Gateway etc is beyond comprehension.

IMO... I still think this may turn out to be the best for Apple shareholders in the long run. Lets face it the real money is in software sales not hardware.
OS X is the first real competitor to Windows and has a reasonable chance to take a very large market share on X86.
Only time will tell.

[Mike Teezie]

Intel will surely make good on 1st/2nd generation cpu's, but when customers aren't switching in hopeful numbers to Apple, or shall I say when customers dont upgrade quickly on Mac, the cork-screw from Intel will begin. Jobs basically said that current products are not the best hardware for their customers; so when this rollover doesnt pan out then they will have nowhere to turn. I'm hoping for the best but I worry.

That's a good point. If Intel won't deliver for Apple, then the only place to turn would be to AMD.

As far as the timing, I don't know if there is a better time really. Apple has their cash cow iPod, and really good press for Tiger. I think that will help them make it through the hard times that are sure to come, as far as hardware sales go.

I was thinking of upgrading late this year to the latest and greatest Powermac from my current Dual G5. Jeez, not now, I'm going to ride this sucker for as long as I can until the Intel Macs(! still feels weird typing that) ship.

[ixus]

so should i buy a iMac G5 or wait until next year?

It means you should buy a PC now instead of a Mac, or else you are screwed and stuck with a computer with no future.

[sw1tcher]

So much for Apple using the Freescale chip in its PowerBooks and iBooks. And what about the Cell chip?

[~loserman~]

That's a good point. If Intel won't deliver for Apple, then the only place to turn would be to AMD.

As far as the timing, I don't know if there is a better time really. Apple has their cash cow iPod, and really good press for Tiger. I think that will help them make it through the hard times that are sure to come, as far as hardware sales go.

I was thinking of upgrading late this year to the latest and greatest Powermac from my current Dual G5. Jeez, not now, I'm going to ride this sucker for as long as I can until the Intel Macs(! still feels weird typing that) ship.


Just type "Mattel" to represent the toy company they will be.....:)

[nagromme]

Interesting that we'll see Tiger on x86, and not have to wait for Leopard.

Leopard.

Leopard!

I don't know why that name is funny to me. :D

[LaMerVipere]

What am I supposed to do with my superdrive iBook G4 I bought a couple months ago?

Will it even be supported 2 years from now?

Damn it to blazes! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/images/angry.gif

[nagromme]

Why anyone would continue to buy Mac's (with INTEL Inside) for a higher price than a Compaq/HP... Dell....Toshiba... Gateway etc is beyond comprehension.

They'll buy Macs because OS X is still going to be designed to run on Apple hardware, NOT universally on all kinds of hardware the way Windows does.

And that's how it should be--it makes OS X a better product if it isn't bloated with support for additional harware and a chaotic array of special situations etc.

Apple can take that step too someday if they want to--sell OS X to anyone with any PC, and SUPPORT it (a nightmare)--but I'm not rooting for it.

(Yes, people will hack it to run, but that won't be for your average end-user.)

In addition, when you find a cheaper PC of similar speed to a Mac, it's generally cheaper because it's missing some things! People can grasp that Firewire, DVI, software bundles, etc. make one computer cost more than another.

[swissmann]

I'm glad to see Quicktime 7 available to Windows. It won't be long before I can post sample videos using H.264 and many people will be able to view them. This switch to Intel is crazy.

[rabadash]

What happens to the powerbook G5 now. Unless they're pretty close to getting the G5 in a powerbook, it would make more sense to me to move straight to the pentium M.

I was all ready to buy an ibook for when I go to college, but this turn of events combined with the fact that it's looking less and less like the ibook is going to be updated to the specs I wan't (mainly a higher res screen). So now I'm either going to get a thinkpad or build my own desktop so I can run Archlinux(I kind of like Arch better than OS X in some aspects).

[chameeeleon]

Switch to Intel: Meh, doesn't seem like as big a deal as it's being made into. Apple certainly won't drop G5 support for a LOOOONG time as it would hurt their software sales too much. And the good news is that when it's time for me to buy a laptop in 2007, it won't still be a 1.5 Ghz G4.
I was happy to hear that Leapard is planned for 2006/early 2007, as I think that it'll completely rule Longhorn at that point - Spotlight will have evolved into so much more. And again, the timing is perfect - I'll be able to score it on my 2007 laptop along with iLife '07 (God that sounds weird).
The iPod podcasting interface I'm exciting to see in the stream - I want to see Apple's take on this.
Although I'm a bit upset that no products came out. No iSight or Airport Express 2, no new shuffles or iBooks (although I had my doubts about those). I mean the Apple homepage hasn't changed in forever! Oh wait, it's a link to widgets now. Gosh! Ever exciting (actually their redesigned widget browser is nice though).
And MacWorld Paris is in September? Let's hope Tuesdays bring good things.

[dizastor]

I think Leopard is more than the codename for the next version of OSX. The whole company is changing it's spots.

[dizastor]

On the other hand... let's hope that the switch to intel doesn't cause Leopard to be a leper.

[CubaTBird]

so whens that keynote gonna be available?

[robogobo]

Yeah I know...that is the FUNNIEST website on the world wide web right now! Oh Apple you crack me up sometimes. Please if anyone on here works for Apple have that site taken down. It makes you look like a huge hypocrite and really makes your choice of Intel look pretty dumb to the average consumer.

i disagree. look, correct me if i'm wrong, but just because steve jobs said they've been running os x on an x86 chip, that doesn't mean they're necessarily going to be using a pentium or any other existing chip. That's precisely why he said it's going to take a couple years and it's not going to be a cheap move.

i'd be really surprised if the next generation mac runs on an existing chip. that would be highly uncharacteristic of apple.

so, no, the pentium bashing isn't hypocritical. and i don't think Apple ever formall bashed intel, or even microsoft for that matter. they just show the benchmarks and claim to be faster than a pentium. which is true. And so NO WAY will they put a f@cking pentium in a mac. come on people! intel is going to build a new processor, just like ibm did.

let's all try to be ABOVE average consumers, ok? if you want a mac, and need one now, go get one. anyone who's been in the market knows you can ALWAYS wait for the next best thing.

[macridah]

No iShuffle or iPod updates? Should have some good news for us. :o

[robogobo]

good point, i want bigger ipods. always.

[robogobo]

It means you should buy a PC now instead of a Mac, or else you are screwed and stuck with a computer with no future.

ixus, i think i speak for all of us when i say go iF@ck yourself. what are you doing here anyway? bbye.

[matperk]

Looking at the statistics in this article, it's clear that Apple is doing quite a few things right. I can't say I agree with the transition to the Intel Chips, but who knows, it might be the right move.

[Cybernanga]

Excellent News!

Leopard, what a brilliant name! (How does a Leopard change its Spots?, old Rudyard Kipling Tale)

Anyway, I think this is good news for us all. The PPC chip was stagnating and we weren't seeing faster chips coming out, or G5 for the portables. Like Steve said, they've had OS X running on Intel chips for 5 years now, so you know it will be just as solid and reliable as it is on our current machines.

The fact that they are using Rosetta means that all our PPC apps will run on the new Intel Macs, and the fact that if you use X-Code to develop, it's really easy to create a FAT Binary that will run on both platforms means that we don't need to worry about compatibility issues.

This will also mean an end to all those Big-Endian, Little-Endian issues, (Programmers will know what I mean, it was a pain for cross development)

To all those of you saying my brand new machines is now obsolete, that's not the case. Your current machine is no more or less obsolete than it would be if Steve had just announced a 4Ghz G5 Powerbook, or a G6 Powermac. Your current machine will still boot up in the morning, and the software will still run. Rosetta should mean that even the apps compiled for Intel chips will run on the PPC chips so there is no problem.

And don't view Rosetta as some sort of Virtual PC or Classic type emulation, it is som much better than that it's almost unbelievable.

No more being held to ransom by IBM and thier slow development of the PPC chips.

Oh, and even if Apple were to allow OS X to run on any old DELL machine, which they won't, the experience would be nothing like it is on a propper Apple Machine wheather it has PPC, Intel or Goblins as a CPU, so don't worry about that happening either.

[artpease]

What am I supposed to do with my superdrive iBook G4 I bought a couple months ago?

Will it even be supported 2 years from now?

Damn it to blazes! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/images/angry.gif
USE IT...Jeeezz, why did you buy it?

Didn't anyone read the Keynote blogs..."universal binaries"...software for both platforms delivered on 1 CD...

TMO [1:38 PM] Developers applauded Steve when he said that both processors would be supported for a long time to come, and the core to this will be universal binaries. - posted by Dave

I bought a Dual G5 2.3 this afternoon, it's still the best computer on the planet, AND I expect to use it for a "long time"...

[1984]

I really don't see what the big deal is. Look at your Mac and imagine that it has an Intel processor inside. Big deal. Apple isn't about to start making generic boxes or anything. Relax.

Watch the keynote. The developers there didn't seem to care much. Why should you? This means better processors. This means we will actual get a PowerBook that's worth a damn. Obviously the PowerPC roadmap looked like crap, especially for portables which as you may have heard outsold desktops this past year. Cell is not a good chip for personal computers. IBM has failed to deliver 3.0 Ghz chips to Apple. Why should they sit around any longer? Why should they just let the company die? They needed to do this and this was the time to do it.

By the way, can some Mac Genius figure out how to actually download the keynote as opposed to just streaming it? I know there used to be a secret way of doing this but I can't figure it out.


http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/jun/wwdc2005/wwdc_2005_1_h264_all_ref.mov

-or-

rtsp://a2047.v1411b.c1411.g.vq.akamaistream.net/5/2047/1411/1_h264_650/ 1a1a1ae454c430950065de4cbb2f94c226950c7ae655b61a48
a91475e243acda3dac194879adde0f/wwdc_2005_1c_h264_650.mov

[avus]

Panther, Tiger, Leopard...

Who would have thought that Apple and German Main Battle Tank engineers think alike?

(I hope it is just a coincidence... it BETTER be.)

[macmunch]

Guys ... I dont understand you !

Yes the PowerMacs with G5 are fast !!! And they wil lget even fast 3 ghz in winter etc. but ... The Centrino is the architecture of the future ! Intel said the future Desktop chips wont be Pentium likes this will be centrino technic !!!

And imagine a Centrino with 3 ghz and Dual core this chip will blow any CPU away !

The Dothan Chip now has 2MB L2 Cache and 533mhz bus and only 2,1 GHz THIS AMAZING CHIP HAS MORE FEATURES than any G4 need less POWER !!!!! And is as fast as a P4 3,4 GHZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you want ???????

Know imagine a Centrino with 3 ghz and Dual core this will blow a G5 because this CENTRINO WILL USE OS X thats the point he will show his DUAL powerin the best SYSTEM on the PLANTE ! not on windows !


Apple bechmarks are Win vs OS X !!! OS X is fast in Photoshop a pentium in OS X would show better iam sure ! And even Dual CPU benchmarks are unfair ! Windows cant handel 2 CPU right ... not far as good as OS X.

And dont forget about all technics DDR2 ... PCI-E ... USB ... this comes from Intel ... They bring up this things And this will help Apple to own the fastest Computers on Planet. G4 was very n1 when he appeard also the G5 and the Centrino future and Intel CPUs (not P4) will bring us speed crown too !

And Steve is right ! I turns about the System and we hae the best Operating system !

[revisionA]

Just to state my point as a g5 owner and a computer person since 1983.

just like Xeon and Pentium are similar, yet require different chipsets to function, so could this next generation x86 chip. If they made Osx run on only the next variation of Xeon, it wouldnt be quite the insult to own an Apple you are worried about. There are many levels of computers for PCs, not just Dell and homemade. People buy computers of all values and for different reasons.

For all we know, a year from now, 90nM or 65nM even chips with dual cores, hyperthreading, dual channel ddr3 and optical hard drives could be the next workstation class machine. Not at 10Ghz or anything, but still, its not the cpu that really slows a system down, its everything that connects to the system bus and the bus speed itself. More cache, and better peripherals could make this next generation amazing. So chill, you are going to want to sell anything you buy after long enough.

Now that I have said that, if Apple released g5s with the same cpu and ddr2 800, full clock speed system bus and support for sataII hard drives, it would be a better system. And worth buying. And very possible, it wouldnt require nearly as much capital to revise the motherboards. The memory and other components are 3rd party afterall. Or a PCI express video card and slot! That would be nice.

The next mac Os will work on g5s for sure. Its been stated already, so thats at least two more years for my system. And only because its not a dual, would I consider getting a g5 in the interim. I think Apple will upgrade the system specs once more, and roll back the prices once and only once.

[whooleytoo]

This is getting more and more like a Star Wars movie with every thread I read. First we're led to believe Intel are part of the enemy, and we need the power of the IBM to protect us. But now it turns out that IBM are the dark side, and Intel are on our side. I'm confused, are clones good or bad? ;)

[fitinferno]

I really don't see what the big deal is. Look at your Mac and imagine that it has an Intel processor inside. Big deal. Apple isn't about to start making generic boxes or anything. Relax.

Watch the keynote. The developers there didn't seem to care much. Why should you? This means better processors. This means we will actual get a PowerBook that's worth a damn. Obviously the PowerPC roadmap looked like crap, especially for portables which as you may have heard outsold desktops this past year. Cell is not a good chip for personal computers. IBM has failed to deliver 3.0 Ghz chips to Apple. Why should they sit around any longer? Why should they just let the company die? They needed to do this and this was the time to do it.

By the way, can some Mac Genius figure out how to actually download the keynote as opposed to just streaming it? I know there used to be a secret way of doing this but I can't figure it out.


http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/jun/wwdc2005/wwdc_2005_1_h264_all_ref.mov

-or-

rtsp://a2047.v1411b.c1411.g.vq.akamaistream.net/5/2047/1411/1_h264_650/ 1a1a1ae454c430950065de4cbb2f94c226950c7ae655b61a48
a91475e243acda3dac194879adde0f/wwdc_2005_1c_h264_650.mov

Man, I'd love to know how to download it too. I've been trying my best to use the stream of it, but it just is refusing to work on my computer. Does anyone have any tips? I've played around w/the streaming settings quite a bit and still nothing :( No matter how decently it starts working, it always times out.

Ironically, it was working better on RealPlayer than QT...

[aegisdesign]

No more being held to ransom by IBM and thier slow development of the PPC chips.


I'm not sure it's really IBM's fault here. They seem to have developed some rather good chips for Sony and Microsoft recently given enough money. Maybe Apple just didn't want to pay that much and so have decided that the only way to match the Intel based PCs is to have an Intel chip in there.

It means they have no development costs to pay for their own CPU. Their Macs are always going to be as fast as the competition. It does mean that Macs are never going to be faster than PCs now and with the larger OS overhead and GCC's poor code optimisation, I'd bet on Macs being slower with the same CPU. Now we don't have Altivec to pull us through on certain tasks.

But it does seem like they're taking out a Porsche engine and installing a Ford, and that rankles.

[pubwvj]

so should i buy a iMac G5 or wait until next year?

I would buy now if you need it. I just bought an iMac G5 20" - love it.

[wms121]

..IBM can now go directly to a CELL PROCESSING CHIP and not worry whether Apple uses any of their chips or not.

MOTO was the victim..and they don't know it yet.

Intel might have been on the ropes IF IBM could have delivered the cooler laptop chips...but neither IBM Semi, Moto Semi, or Intel
Semi wants to miss out on the Cell Patents..they are circleing the wagons for Cell...and attempting to keep the patents "US Bound"...hint hint..neither MS,
Intel, IBM or any other US Co. is the enemy gang.

Who is?

China.

WW

[DakotaGuy]

That's a good point. If Intel won't deliver for Apple, then the only place to turn would be to AMD.

As far as the timing, I don't know if there is a better time really. Apple has their cash cow iPod, and really good press for Tiger. I think that will help them make it through the hard times that are sure to come, as far as hardware sales go.

I was thinking of upgrading late this year to the latest and greatest Powermac from my current Dual G5. Jeez, not now, I'm going to ride this sucker for as long as I can until the Intel Macs(! still feels weird typing that) ship.

Intel will deliver for Apple because they will be delivering the same chips to every other PC manufacturer.

[DakotaGuy]

IBut it does seem like they're taking out a Porsche engine and installing a Ford, and that rankles.

Well the Ford GT is not exactly slow nor is it any less advanced then what Porsche offers.

[nek]

http://images.apple.com/powermac/performance/images/photoshop20050427.jpg

That is based on what is currently available. I think the G4-based Macs will be the first to switch to Intel next year, with the Power Mac, Xserve, and iMac switching over in 2007. Obviously whatever Intel will have in 2007 will be much faster than the current G5s, so that graph is meaningless.

There is also no reason to not buy a PPC Mac today, since they will be supported until at least the end of 2008, probably longer for the major software developers. If you are planning to buy a laptop next year, then I would wait for Apple's first a "Mactel".

[primalman]

I too was in denial!

…Apple, IBM, Motorola all formed the AIM Alliance; the 1st generation of cpu's from Motorola insulted Apple Corporation & its customers (remember the promised 450/500/550Mhz cpu's, instead shipped 400/450/500Mhz at the same price)!!

Correction: You're talking about the FOURTH generation of PPC chips, the G4. There was the 601, 603/603e, the 604/604e and the G3 before that, which all were stellar performers in thier day.

[aafuss1]

QuickTime 7 for Windows is a 'public preview' release for now. Interesting is that QT7 Pro on Windows can be automated via VBScript. I'm not that suprised Apple has decided to switch to Intel chips (hopefully better Powerbooks).

[840quadra]

It does mean that Macs are never going to be faster than PCs now and with the larger OS overhead and GCC's poor code optimisation, I'd bet on Macs being slower with the same CPU. Now we don't have Altivec to pull us through on certain tasks.

But it does seem like they're taking out a Porsche engine and installing a Ford, and that rankles.

Huh?

I would like to see some numbers on that subject. From what I understand XP has much more bloat code when compared to OS X.

Did they announce that we were going to see full intel chipsets in the next macintosh models that will run on X86? It is possible, but I believe that MacOS systems are going to have more then a unique BIOS and a minor Firware change to keep them Macintosh. I would assume (and hope) that the Apple computers will simply just use intel processors, and still make their own system boards and have their own unique hardware requirements.

[GFLPraxis]

QuickTime 7 for Windows is a 'public preview' release for now. Interesting is that QT7 Pro on Windows can be automated via VBScript. I'm not that suprised Apple has decided to switch to Intel chips (hopefully better Powerbooks).

I can't find where to download it...

[dejo]

I really liked how Steve used the countdown widget to show how many more days until Longhorn. That was highlarious...

[dejo]

I can't find where to download it...

QuickTime 7 for Windows Public Preview (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/preview/)

[iMeowbot]

I can't believe there was no mention of Tetris in the iTunes and iPod portion of the keynote!

This is shocking. Unbelievable. Criminal! How could Jobs let his loyal customers down like that?

That's it, I'm never going to listen to music again! :mad:

[fox2005]

please someone who gets to listen to the whole wwdc keynote can put it as a downloadable file... there is some people (i am one) who can't get to view it complete or at all because they have older versions of quicktime, slow connections, or simply doesn't work...

[840quadra]

I can't believe there was no mention of Tetris in the iTunes and iPod portion of the keynote!

This is shocking. Unbelievable. Criminal! How could Jobs let his loyal customers down like that?

That's it, I'm never going to listen to music again! :mad:

LOL

well I think you will get by :)

[b-randomly]

I think people should stop worrying about how Apple is moving to Intel chips. If I had the money now for an iMac G5, I'd go for it. And considering that I've got support for my PowerBook for years to come with those universal binaries, I'm pretty stoked.

What I now want to know is: will this make it easier to put games on a Mac?

[Windowlicker]

could people please stop watching the keynote!!!!!?? the video is so jerky it's impossible to follow. apple should add some more servers there to stream the video ;P

[b-randomly]

could people please stop watching the keynote!!!!!?? the video is so jerky it's impossible to follow. apple should add some more servers there to stream the video ;P

Is there any way a person can make a torrent of it? Because that would be great, even though I've got DSL. I can't wait up all night to see if it will connect.

[abc123]

after watching the keynote, i don't see the logic about the fuss consumers are making (i can understand why developers might be a little pissed off but they seemed to clap and cheer a lot for a bunch of pissed off people).

if you buy an imac G5 today, then you'll still be able to run everything for years to come because of the dual binaries. basically the only reason you have not to buy an imac today (besides not having the money or the need for one) is because you now know that between now and 2007 they will be updated, but that is a given anyway. the powermacs are not going to be left unsupported for many years to come because there are just too many people running them. when apple say that the transition will take two years, they mean the transition of their product line up, not that in two years they expect everyone to toss out their imac G5s and switch to intel.

[840quadra]

(i can understand why developers might be a little pissed off but they seemed to clap and cheer a lot for a bunch of pissed off people.


ROFL

That was awesome, I didn't think of it that way!

[minimax]

Sorry dude, you still have a nice computer. You are not alone everyone elses Macs resale value just hit the floor.

Im sorry but your argumentation is way too simplistic. Firstly, the resale value of an item is always linked to the retail value of the same item lowered by a certain percentage depending on the age of the item. Second, you are assuming, for resale prices to drop that demand for used items will drop. It is more likely exactly the opposite will happen in first instance. Many people that were thinking to buy a new powerbook will settle for a second hand one as they plan to move towards a next computer sooner then expected (say instead of 5 years they plan to buy a new one 3 years down the road). On the other hand, supply will also increase as many people that were thinking of buying a replacement for their mac next year, will do it now because they can't afford waiting any longer, and buying a new one next year will indeed be throwing away your money. Those customers will replace the ones that will opt for a second hand one.
So my prediction: Mac sales will stay pretty much stable the first 4-6 months but will start to plummit from next year on. Resale value will stay pretty much stable untill shortly for the actual transition to x86 will take place.

[lucas]

anyone got a link to a highres stream of the keynotes? postage stamp videos make baby jesus cry

[abc123]

i suspect that for the past five years keynotes have been given on intel machines. if i was steve i would have done that.

[840quadra]

anyone got a link to a highres stream of the keynotes? postage stamp videos make baby jesus cry

Try changing your bandwidth settings on Quicktime. 56k (default for some) settings result in postage stamp video sizes..

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Well the Ford GT is not exactly slow nor is it any less advanced then what Porsche offers.
well, I don't know about that.... But I get our point

[gweedo]

Is it just me (quite possible) or has the stream of the keynote been removed? The links are still there, but now they don't go anywhere. :confused:

[jeriqo]

I agree, I feel stupid shelling out the money 3 months ago for this iMac G5. I agree, it will run into the future, for awhile, but by next year if I buy an Intel Mac, this one will be dumpster material. No one is going to pay a few hundred (or thousands new) for a computer that has no future.

I think this is a positive for Apple maybe in a few years, but over the short term, it is going to be hell for them. Sales will take a huge slide. Also, what they offer now is what will be offered for the next year. I don't think they will put one dime into a "dead platform."

So you thought that if Apple stayed with IBM, you're Imac G5 wouldn't be a "dead platform" in 2 years ?
Pentium or G6, where is the difference for your imac G5 ?

[Doctor Q]

I have a couple of comments/questions after watching the keynote video:

1. The crowd was pretty quiet during the Intel announcement. I think that indicated mixed feelings.

2. Steve kept dragging windows around his screen and the zoomed projected view had trouble keeping up. I haven't noticed that happening so much during keynotes before. Was it Steve's fault or the "cameraperson's" fault?

3. Why did people laugh for a moment when Steve was panning/zooming in his photo library while showing a bunch of apps after revealing he was using a Macintel system?

4. The Microsoft Macintosh Business Unit representative couldn't have been more wooden while reading a platitude-filled press release. It makes you appreciate Steve's talent for showmanship.

5. The vague measure of "performance per watt" was a little odd. I'm surprised he didn't say "gflops per watt" or some other slightly-better-defined term, or perhaps mention a specific benchmark. After all, he was talking to techies.

6. The first question you'd ask about technology like Rosetta is "How fast does a Rosetta'ed app run compared to a native app?" but Steve didn't mention that topic at all. Did he not have enough time or was it not good enough to boast about?

[iMeowbot]

2. Steve kept dragging windows around his screen and the zoomed projected view had trouble keeping up. I haven't noticed that happening so much during keynotes before. Was it Steve's fault or the "cameraperson's" fault?
There is something really wrong with that stream, audio and video sync keep drifting by as much as several seconds at times. The lag may be illusory. (same goes for timing on laughter)
4. The Microsoft Macintosh Business Unit representative couldn't have been more wooden while reading a platitude-filled press release. It makes you appreciate Steve's talent for showmanship.
Roz Ho is, in fact, made entirely of wood.
5. The vague measure of "performance per watt" was a little odd. I'm surprised he didn't say "gflops per watt" or some other slightly-better-defined term, or perhaps mention a specific benchmark. After all, he was talking to techies.
I'll bet 3 gigahertz that Steve Jobs will never, ever again announce performance numbers for a future CPU :D
6. The first question you'd ask about technology like Rosetta is "How fast does a Rosetta'ed app run compared to a native app?" but Steve didn't mention that topic at all. Did he not have enough time or was it not good enough to boast about?
The written documentation goes so far as to say that Rosetta shouldn't be used for software that does lots of computation and not so much user interaction. That happens to match the claims from Transitive pretty well, that most of the magic would come from matching library calls to their native code equivalents. This is pretty much exactly how things worked with the transition to PowerPC. The conversion between 64 and 80 bits for floating point has to hurt.

[DakotaGuy]

I have a couple of comments/questions after watching the keynote video:
3. Why did people laugh for a moment when Steve was panning/zooming in his photo library while showing a bunch of apps after revealing he was using a Macintel system?


Steve was nervous using this computer a few times during the keynote. When Photoshop opened he excused the system...I think the laugh from the developers when he opened his photo library was more of a nervous response when things seemed to bog down a bit. Have YOU ever seen Steve make any excuses for the speed at which apps open or telling us he haid "4000" pictures so it might take awhile?

Imagine the PR nightmare if that thing would have crashed on stage? A G5 goes down on stage it could have been laughed off, because people know it was a fluke. A Macintel goes down on stage when he is trying to sell everyone on this latest and greatest system? Not good.

[minimax]

I have been thinking about that statistic showing ibm vs intel integer performance per watts (in the next few years) as well, as it did not sit quite well with me when i first saw it on the keynote address. This statistic was plain PR spin IMHO.

Nobody can predict the integer performance of a chip before it is an actual product, and the energy consumption is even harder to predict with many different factors playing a role. If he can predict the performance of both future product portfolios that exact he could have also seen it coming that the G5 would top off sooner than expected.

Of course, it could be he is basing himself on estimates given by both intel and ibm but who is to say whether one corporation (IBM) has a more conservative prediction (in light of earlier promises that they did not manage to fulfill) whilst the other has somewhat inflated predictions in the hope of winning Apple over as a new customer?

I watched the WWDC keynote address and it was so full of spin it made me feel pretty akward, if not sick. I have a hard time to believe the ease with which so many people around here let themselves convince about this transition when it is so obviously a strategical decision (based on peoples perception of performance and familiarity with intel and the x86 platform), not a tactical one (based on actual performance).
His argument (non plural) for this transition was just too vague and underexposed for it to be the real reason.

[minimax]

Steve was nervous using this computer a few times during the keynote. When Photoshop opened he excused the system...I think the laugh from the developers when he opened his photo library was more of a nervous response when things seemed to bog down a bit. Have YOU ever seen Steve make any excuses for the speed at which apps open or telling us he haid "4000" pictures so it might take awhile?



Yes the waiting for PS to open with Steve making those noises to fill the time was pretty akward. When I saw it I was thinking how that would be a perfect moment to throw in a little joke as he did on many other occasions during the presentation. He could have stressed the "enough" from the fast (enough) comment about Rosetta to break the tension. But I'm just nitpicking. The rest of the presentation was unrivalled.

[wdlove]

I also thought it interesting that the Keynote only last about an hour. Wonder if this wasn't among his shortest. Kind of Apple at a temporary standstill. Steve not revealing any new products. As mentioned a lot of nervous tension.

[iMeowbot]

Steve was nervous using this computer a few times during the keynote. When Photoshop opened he excused the system...I think the laugh from the developers when he opened his photo library was more of a nervous response when things seemed to bog down a bit. Have YOU ever seen Steve make any excuses for the speed at which apps open or telling us he haid "4000" pictures so it might take awhile?

I think everyone knows that iPhoto is kind of slow, and there seemed to be a bit that "yeah, yeah I know" in there.

The Photoshop demo really wasn't that bad IMHO. Start times on Adobe products are nasty already, and plugins can be finicky to load. That it ran without incident was even more impressive than the fact that it wasn't so slow as to be unusable.

On the nerves in general, that's easy! Eight years later, people still keep bringing up Microsoft's plug and play demo with the blue screen (see? I just brought it up!) -- and Win98 wasn't even really an all new product.

That programmer Bob from Wolfram looked petrified to be up on stage.

[ericmooreart]

every mac I've owned has held me for about 3 years. Except my G4 pci graphics that still cranks. 5 years and going.

I'll put my money on high end desktop in august. 2007 is a long way off and like classic, ppc apps aren't just going to vanish. Rosetta will probably work just fine too untill 2008

[kangaroo]

A few observations...

The presentation went very well.

With the exception of Photoshop, which loaded slowly BUT was running through Rosetta, everything ran without a hitch and quickly. In fact, those Rosetta-run apps ran as fast or faster than any app I currently use on my PB.

It ocurred to me (before Steve revealed he was running an Intel chip) that everything seemed to run faster/snappier than in his previous WWDC demos. (It's too bad they didn't 'transition' to Intel sooner).

Paul Ottelini of Intel was gracious/charismatic.

Predictions...
-Although 'widget' is not a new word, Apple's coinage will turn it into techno lingo as commonplace as email or iPod, i.e., 'Get a Widget for that' or 'Widget that...', etc.
-Teaming up with Intel will increase Apple's marketshare.
-A Wintel OS X version will appear ~at the time MS releases Longhorn.

[scarletspider]

Apple is going with Intel for the next generation of Macs, but who is to say in 3 years, that the freescale chip doesn't continue to develop and beat the ever many transistors that are in the Intel chips. Only time will tell. Who knows maybe they will have both chips at one point. Let's face it the G5 with Alti-Vec is a marvel, Intel -- They just ramp up the clock speed. I'll bet Apple is just keeping their options open, who is to say that Intel in 3 years can't make apple's quote like the G4 by Moltarolla, back in the hey day. IBM made the G3, moltarolla made the G4. Apple is doing what is best for apple right now. I think this is going to lead to a slug fest between apple and microsoft and the winner gets the world. :eek:

[ClarkeB]

anyone got a link to a highres stream of the keynotes? postage stamp videos make baby jesus cry

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/clarkeb/Picture1.jpg

Postage stamp?

[tdewey]

I have been thinking about that statistic showing ibm vs intel integer performance per watts (in the next few years) as well, as it did not sit quite well with me when i first saw it on the keynote address. This statistic was plain PR spin IMHO.

Nobody can predict the integer performance of a chip before it is an actual product, and the energy consumption is even harder to predict with many different factors playing a role. If he can predict the performance of both future product portfolios that exact he could have also seen it coming that the G5 would top off sooner than expected.

Of course, it could be he is basing himself on estimates given by both intel and ibm but who is to say whether one corporation (IBM) has a more conservative prediction (in light of earlier promises that they did not manage to fulfill) whilst the other has somewhat inflated predictions in the hope of winning Apple over as a new customer?

I watched the WWDC keynote address and it was so full of spin it made me feel pretty akward, if not sick. I have a hard time to believe the ease with which so many people around here let themselves convince about this transition when it is so obviously a strategical decision (based on peoples perception of performance and familiarity with intel and the x86 platform), not a tactical one (based on actual performance).
His argument (non plural) for this transition was just too vague and underexposed for it to be the real reason.


Those numbers had to be based on Dothan/Yonah. Which is by far the coolest chip on the market, but is not necessarily representative of all of Intel's chips (Prescott anyone?).

And sorry, must disagree, the strategic decision is based on the actual performance (or rather failure to perform) on the part of IBM/Moto in delivering a cool mobile chip and on the actual performance of Intel with its Pentium-M chips. Further it is based on failure of IBM to crank out chips and the ability of Intel to crank out chips.

While you can never predict the future with 100% accuracy, you can look at what has happened in the past and draw reasonable inferences. That's what Apple has done.

[GFLPraxis]

after watching the keynote, i don't see the logic about the fuss consumers are making (i can understand why developers might be a little pissed off but they seemed to clap and cheer a lot for a bunch of pissed off people).

if you buy an imac G5 today, then you'll still be able to run everything for years to come because of the dual binaries. basically the only reason you have not to buy an imac today (besides not having the money or the need for one) is because you now know that between now and 2007 they will be updated, but that is a given anyway. the powermacs are not going to be left unsupported for many years to come because there are just too many people running them. when apple say that the transition will take two years, they mean the transition of their product line up, not that in two years they expect everyone to toss out their imac G5s and switch to intel.

I agree, I am not even going to tell my non-tech savvy friends and family about the switch. It'll confuse non-tech people and honestly, it'll be transparent.


BTW...for the clapping thing...

In my head I heard a modified quote from Star Wars Episode 3...

"So this is how the PowerPC dies...with thunderous applause."

[swheeler]

UPDATE: A quicktime video stream of the keynote speech is now available: http://stream.apple.akadns.net/

What's wrong with this? I have a high speed university connection and I can't even get solid audio on the lowest setting... Anyone else having problems?

[ClarkeB]

Just finished watching the KN and I have two words:

Yeah, right.


Apple tends to never like to admit mistakes and say things like "We were planning it ten years ago."
There is no way they made Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, and Panther for x86. I mean...do they just have money to blow? "Cross platform by design"...more like "Cross platform by the time the programmers finish it after working 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. Then we can release it next year."

If it was "Cross platform by design," there is no way that it will take them 1 year to develop Macs with...'intel inside'. Rip on the G5 processor(s) and slap in an intel processor...that cannot take an entire year.

[swheeler]

I mean...do they just have money to blow?
Yes they do. More than 5 billion dollars of it, actually.

[fitinferno]

What's wrong with this? I have a high speed university connection and I can't even get solid audio on the lowest setting... Anyone else having problems?

You're not the only one. I have the same type of connection and have tried every type of setting in three different programmes...maybe in the ultimate plan for my life this keynote is just something I'm not supposed to watch...lol.

[fitinferno]

You're not the only one. I have the same type of connection and have tried every type of setting in three different programmes...maybe in the ultimate plan for my life this keynote is just something I'm not supposed to watch...lol.

It's definitely for sure now that I'm not supposed to watch it...lol. I tried it again and they must've changed the link a bit since I last tried it because it gave me the "low" "medium" "high" options...and now, it works well on low but QT crashes on every attempt to play it at 5:00 in or sooner...darn...one of the few things I've never liked about Apple is the QT player...

[dukeblue91]

I agree, I feel stupid shelling out the money 3 months ago for this iMac G5. I agree, it will run into the future, for awhile, but by next year if I buy an Intel Mac, this one will be dumpster material. No one is going to pay a few hundred (or thousands new) for a computer that has no future.

I think this is a positive for Apple maybe in a few years, but over the short term, it is going to be hell for them. Sales will take a huge slide. Also, what they offer now is what will be offered for the next year. I don't think they will put one dime into a "dead platform."

It won't make your iMac any slower 2 years from now.
Hasn't it always been that way, what you buy today is obsolete after a year or two?

I say go get what you need now, or enjoy what you have now till it is time to upgrade.
I'm still happy with my stuff and it does everything I need it to do right now.

Remember, if you buy a loaf of bread today, tomorrow it will be from yesterday. :D

[whooleytoo]

I also thought it interesting that the Keynote only last about an hour. Wonder if this wasn't among his shortest. Kind of Apple at a temporary standstill. Steve not revealing any new products. As mentioned a lot of nervous tension.

Actually, that was one of the things I was expecting. There's hardly any point in announcing anything else in the keynote, as everyone would still be talking about the switch to Intel regardless.

Give it a week or two, let the fuss die down, then start sending out the invites.

[maya]

This is a sad sad day indeed. :(

What I don't get is Steve in the Keynote kept says PPC and Intel, while he should have stated it as X86, since Intel is not the only company that makes and designs X86 chips.

And WHY INTEL, I would have gone with AMD, far far better choice?

Steve is smoking some good stuff indeed. :eek: :)

[wdlove]

This is a sad sad day indeed. :(

What I don't get is Steve in the Keynote kept says PPC and Intel, while he should have stated it as X86, since Intel is not the only company that makes and designs X86 chips.

And WHY INTEL, I would have gone with AMD, far far better choice?

Steve is smoking some good stuff indeed. :eek: :)

Steve has done a good Job with Apple since his return. We need to give him a chance. His instincts have been on target.

[~loserman~]

Just finished watching the KN and I have two words:

Yeah, right.


Apple tends to never like to admit mistakes and say things like "We were planning it ten years ago."
There is no way they made Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, and Panther for x86. I mean...do they just have money to blow? "Cross platform by design"...more like "Cross platform by the time the programmers finish it after working 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. Then we can release it next year."

If it was "Cross platform by design," there is no way that it will take them 1 year to develop Macs with...'intel inside'. Rip on the G5 processor(s) and slap in an intel processor...that cannot take an entire year.

Of course they were X86 all along.
Take a look at Darwin. You will notice that every release had a corresponding X86 release.

[~loserman~]

This is a sad sad day indeed. :(

What I don't get is Steve in the Keynote kept says PPC and Intel, while he should have stated it as X86, since Intel is not the only company that makes and designs X86 chips.

And WHY INTEL, I would have gone with AMD, far far better choice?

Steve is smoking some good stuff indeed. :eek: :)

I also prefer the AMD line.... but AMD would land Apple with the same problems that they had with IBM and Moto.... Supply problems.
Lets face it Intel can provide more CPUs than all the others combined.

[chatin]

The first fallout for guests, that show up at a keynote, has come in the form of Microsoft giving away free beta software of Acrylic.

Adobe, right down the street from Apple, would be the company MS makes an example of - now that Google has gone out of their sites!! :mad:

[dukeblue91]

The first fallout for guests, that show up at a keynote, has come in the form of Microsoft giving away free beta software of Acrylic.

Adobe, right down the street from Apple, would be the company MS makes an example of - now that Google has gone out of their sites!! :mad:

What kind of professional would go with anything Micro$oft over Adobe anyway?

But this is so M$, they can't get their OS working right and start with other projects instead.
What a shocker :eek:

[iMeowbot]

The first fallout for guests, that show up at a keynote, has come in the form of Microsoft giving away free beta software of Acrylic.
Acrylic is a fascinating toy. It's Creature House Expression, just renamed and updated a little. It's really not a replacement for Illustrator, more of an additional tool/toy that someone might use.