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xwk88
Jun 6, 2005, 07:22 PM
does any one think we will get pentium m PB as one of the first macintel manchines if so do you think it will be before july/2006.
I want a powerbook but will not buy until the new ones come out. do you think they will be cheaper.maybe a couple of houndreds less????? :confused: :rolleyes:

joecool85
Jun 6, 2005, 07:32 PM
They will probably be a couple hundred cheaper from what I understand, also, yes, they should be out by then, they did say that some of the lineup would be seeing intel chips in a year. I would assume that the PB line will be some of the first since they need the faster/cooler chipset.

furryrabidbunny
Jun 7, 2005, 01:22 AM
the pentium m will probably be the first processor used by Apple. The main reason they dropped IBM was the lack of a notebook processor. Also, the M is the best chip made by Intel, faster than pentium 4s and running a lot cooler. With a pentium m we could see a mac mini a few DVD cases high (sorry, had to), a super thin iMac where the only thing making it visible from a distance is the LCD components. All with cheeper prices too. If Apple debuted a mini with the Intel's new pentium m http://news.com.com/Intel+spills+beans+on+Yonah%2C+the+next+notebook+chip/2100-1006_3-5729925.html?part=rss&tag=5729925&subj=news. imagine a mini with those specs. dual core, 2+ghz processor (faster than a 4ghz pentium 4, which does not exist unless overclocked) 2 mb cache. I am drooling already.

yoda13
Jun 7, 2005, 01:32 AM
While we could definately see lower prices, I am skeptical that Apple will pass that savings on to us. They can still charge a premium for design and the right to run OSX. I am drooling for a PB like the ones described above, but I am afraid that it will cost little less. Hope I am wrong. :p

furryrabidbunny
Jun 7, 2005, 01:55 AM
While we could definately see lower prices, I am skeptical that Apple will pass that savings on to us. They can still charge a premium for design and the right to run OSX. I am drooling for a PB like the ones described above, but I am afraid that it will cost little less. Hope I am wrong. :p
I disagree with you that they wont drop prices. They drop prices all the time when they can afford to. Using x86 will force them to drop prices. Their marketshare would fall if they didn't drop prices. Pretty cases and a great os aren't enough for most people. If they see a PC a few hundred less with the same specs minus the white case and OS X most would say "o'well, guess i'm running longhorn"

ansalmo
Jun 7, 2005, 03:12 AM
I would hazard a guess that the first Intel Powerbooks (if they're still to be called "Power"books...) would be equipped with dual-core Pentium-M's (Yonah), and the iBooks with single-core Pentium-M's (Dothan).

That would allow Apple to maintain a simple differentiation between the two notebook lines - dual core for the power user and single core for the standard consumer. No longer any fear of the top-end iBooks overlapping the low-end Powerbook market.

Also fits well with the planned release schedule of Yonah, which is due out 2006Q1.

I'd be interested to see what plans Apple has for the desktop market though, as the current P4 chips are horrific power-guzzlers. It's a shame that Apple didn't go with AMD so that the Athlon64-X2's could be used, with their low power consumption and high performance. Ah well, I guess Intel may have something up their sleeve - I know that they're planning to dump the current P4 NetBurst architecture over the coming months / years.

MacSA
Jun 7, 2005, 03:24 AM
I'd be interested to see what plans Apple has for the desktop market though, as the current P4 chips are horrific power-guzzlers. It's a shame that Apple didn't go with AMD so that the Athlon64-X2's could be used, with their low power consumption and high performance.

Do you really think that Apple will be using CURRENT chips in 2 years time?

ansalmo
Jun 7, 2005, 03:32 AM
Do you really think that Apple will be using CURRENT chips in 2 years time?

Clearly not, but I would expect Apple desktops to transition before the notebooks. That would imply that desktops would move to Intel in early 2006, and I've not heard any rumours about upcoming Intel desktop CPUs bar multi-core NetBurst chips. OTOH, there are many firm rumours about Intel's notebook chips for that timeframe.

So, unless Intel has been keeping a whole new desktop chip architecture under the tightest security ever, the Apple desktops would either have to be equipped with NetBurst chips or some variant of the Pentium-M. The latter option is no bad thing though - I have a Pentium-M Dothan 2.0 running in a desktop unit at home, and it walks all over my old P4-3.0.....

dodonutter
Jun 7, 2005, 11:28 AM
I heard somewhere that the powerbook sleep function (where everything is loaded to the RAM so you can carry on working in a second or 2) is a hardware feature which is why windows laptops take so damn long to start up after you close them...If this is the case does that mean we'll lose our PBs being ready to work on by the time the screen is at 90º??
:confused:

AoWolf
Jun 7, 2005, 11:40 AM
I heard somewhere that the powerbook sleep function (where everything is loaded to the RAM so you can carry on working in a second or 2) is a hardware feature which is why windows laptops take so damn long to start up after you close them...If this is the case does that mean we'll lose our PBs being ready to work on by the time the screen is at 90º??
:confused:

I hope not.

So you people who know more about the intel lineup tell me what you expect to see in the next powerbooks and iBooks?

bug
Jun 7, 2005, 12:01 PM
I heard somewhere that the powerbook sleep function (where everything is loaded to the RAM so you can carry on working in a second or 2) is a hardware feature which is why windows laptops take so damn long to start up after you close them...If this is the case does that mean we'll lose our PBs being ready to work on by the time the screen is at 90º??
:confused:
I have some serious doubts that this has anything to do with the CPU at all - there's a lot more to the hardware than the CPU. We aren't going to loose any features moving to Intel, it will just be a new chip. Yes, it is going to be a pain in the rear for devs and probably really hard for private apple retailers - but I think the only danger here is with consumers freaking out about this move. Most of the features we like about Macs have nothing to do with the CPU at all.

It isn't going to make viruses any more prevalent on Macs, it isn't going to increase adware, it isn't going to make OS X instantly pirateable to PCs, and it isn't going to make the computers less stable. Its just a change in CPU, it doesn't mean that we are going to be running PC clones.

(now, it is possible that some freak is going to write their own device drivers for OS X so it can be installed on Dells, but this is a major undertaking and would require that the person has intimate knowledge of both OS X and PCs - it isn't like cracking some software so it doesn't need the CD, and it will probably never 'work right' so they still won't be getting the Mac experience)

jcrowe
Jun 7, 2005, 12:55 PM
does any one think we will get pentium m PB as one of the first macintel manchines if so do you think it will be before july/2006.
I want a powerbook but will not buy until the new ones come out. do you think they will be cheaper.maybe a couple of houndreds less????? :confused: :rolleyes:
Perhaps so, but that would mean a REALLY long time, e.g. over a year, to wait for an upgrade if there is no PowerPC upgrade in Powerbooks until an Intel based Powerbook appears a bit over a year from now. I understand the reasoning for the switch, but without an upgrade path for Apple notebooks, there's a potential for lost opportunity, I would think. Further, I would think that it might be quite difficult to recover that ground once lost. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, some of us Mac users might be buying AMD based notebooks to tide us over in the interim.
JC

P.S. - I only wish the price of G5 iMacs would drop about $500 before June 15... :cool:

furryrabidbunny
Jun 7, 2005, 01:14 PM
I really doubt any current Intel chips will make it into a Mac. The reason they are switching, which Steve Jobs said on CNBC, was because their roadmap matched Apple's. Meaning future chips fit future design; not current chips fit future designs. I disagree though with the ibook being single core; in the future (because of the x86 bottleneck) almost all computers will be dual core. What i see in the pro line (current power line) will be dual processors with two cores each; quad processor. That might be why we see that support in Tiger; it might be a carry over from the intel version of tiger.

m-dogg
Jun 7, 2005, 01:17 PM
I'm placing my bet that powerbooks will be the first mac to get intel processors (pentium m). I tihnk this will happen at MWSF 06.

When I watched the WWDC keynote last night, they said that there will be intel based mac by this time next year. to me it sounded like they will be out in the market prior to WWDC 06 arriving.

this is all just my guess of course, so take it with a grain of salt.

dodonutter
Jun 7, 2005, 01:20 PM
I have some serious doubts that this has anything to do with the CPU at all - there's a lot more to the hardware than the CPU. We aren't going to loose any features moving to Intel, it will just be a new chip. Yes, it is going to be a pain in the rear for devs and probably really hard for private apple retailers - but I think the only danger here is with consumers freaking out about this move. Most of the features we like about Macs have nothing to do with the CPU at all.

It isn't going to make viruses any more prevalent on Macs, it isn't going to increase adware, it isn't going to make OS X instantly pirateable to PCs, and it isn't going to make the computers less stable. Its just a change in CPU, it doesn't mean that we are going to be running PC clones.

(now, it is possible that some freak is going to write their own device drivers for OS X so it can be installed on Dells, but this is a major undertaking and would require that the person has intimate knowledge of both OS X and PCs - it isn't like cracking some software so it doesn't need the CD, and it will probably never 'work right' so they still won't be getting the Mac experience)

It's true it's probably nothing to do with the CPU but im assuming (dont no all that much about the workings of PCs) that Apple is going to have a major rework of motherboards, logic boards, etc etc for the Intel platform and i wondered if the instant on feature would be lost due this rework.

Is there any easy-to-read info about the pentium line/ future procs...can only find scattered reports

--DN

eVolcre
Jun 7, 2005, 03:25 PM
Clearly not, but I would expect Apple desktops to transition before the notebooks. That would imply that desktops would move to Intel in early 2006, and I've not heard any rumours about upcoming Intel desktop CPUs bar multi-core NetBurst chips. OTOH, there are many firm rumours about Intel's notebook chips for that timeframe.

So, unless Intel has been keeping a whole new desktop chip architecture under the tightest security ever, the Apple desktops would either have to be equipped with NetBurst chips or some variant of the Pentium-M. The latter option is no bad thing though - I have a Pentium-M Dothan 2.0 running in a desktop unit at home, and it walks all over my old P4-3.0.....


I disagree. Saw a article the other day that said that laptop sales had beaten desktop sales for the first time. The notebok is the future and partly the reason why Apple decided to dump IBM for Intel - no roadmap for powerbook chip innovation.

My dream is a dual core Powerbook that is super powerful, ultralight and has a great battery life. Maybe a 13.1" widescreen? Great design that we have come to expect from Apple - very stylish. This would be the perfect notebook for me. Stylish - that sets me aprt from the crowd. Mobile - for my long flights. Ability to give sales pitches and yet powerul enough that I can come home, plug it into a Display and have a perfectly fine desktop relacement for my needs. I really hope this is the first machine they release with the new platform. Targets businessmen, students, and the hardcore Apple fans who will be ready to upgrade.

Somethign similar to this http://www.dynamism.com/x50/index.shtml

http://www.dynamism.com/x50/samsung50wm.jpg

sexy eh? and if it dual boots with Windows I can even convince my company to buy it for me since it can be 'supported' Would save me from buying a personal machine in addition to my company piece. I would seriiously pay up to 2500 and maybe even 3000 for this machine. Until then, I will make do with my 2002 12" Powerbook since it does evreything I want it to and will continue to do so until the new ones are released.

Actually, the picture above is a 15" screen.Check out some of these with smaller screens and even lighter weight

http://www.dynamism.com/w4/panaW4wm.jpg

The Panasonic W4 is a superlaptop. Its elegant 2.6 pound design features an integrated DVD-RW drive, 12.1" XGA TFT, 8 hour standard battery, integrated Wi-fi, and a 1.2GHz processor, mobile Intel 915GMS Express chipset with 128mb VRAM (shared), and a wealth of well-designed and thoroughly-considered features.

http://www.dynamism.com/r4/panaR4wm.jpg

The Panasonic R4 is a sleek 2.2lb (999g) ultra-portable with a 9 hour battery life. Its Pentium-M 1.2ghz Dolan processor, 80gb HDD, and 1gb RAM (max) provide plenty of power. The 10.4" XGA TFT and 17mm keypitch keyboard are rare when compared to other ~2.2 pound notebooks with their smaller display and keyboard; the battery life is simply unchallenged. The Panasonic R4 is the successor to the popular Panasonic R3.

I can't wait!!

eV

eVolcre
Jun 7, 2005, 04:50 PM
Here's a couple more. And these are US released ultralights ...

http://img.engadget.com/common/images/2239348592523447.JPG?0.9119655250832963

Sony’s new Vaio T2

Posted Apr 21, 2005, 2:46 PM ET by Marc Perton
Related entries: Laptops

vaio t2

Sony continues to set a high bar — at least when it comes to style — with its Vaio laptops. Their new T2 series runs on a Pentium-M Ultra Low Voltage (ULV) 1.2 GHz processor, Bluetooth, WiFi and a DVD burner. But what may be more important to Vaio fans is the fact that it weighs in at about 3 pounds and has a 10.6-inch widescreen display with Sony’s X-Black technology and an anti-reflective layer to cut glare (one of the biggest complaints about those X-Black displays). No pricing yet, but we assume it’ll set you back at least a good $2K.

ssh
Jun 7, 2005, 10:03 PM
I heard somewhere that the powerbook sleep function (where everything is loaded to the RAM so you can carry on working in a second or 2) is a hardware feature which is why windows laptops take so damn long to start up after you close them...If this is the case does that mean we'll lose our PBs being ready to work on by the time the screen is at 90º??
:confused:Intel-based Windows (or Linux) machines work exactly like this and are available within a couple of seconds. If you hibernate them (RAM written to disk and then all power removed), it takes quite a bit longer (as you'd expect).

Supa_Fly
Jun 7, 2005, 11:18 PM
1st off Apple will maintain their Industry Leading design. The ONLY thing I hope that Apple gets from this deal with Intel is the possibility of PowerBooks - if the market name stays - will incorporate Intels design idea of a secondary LCD/OLED on the outside of the case - when laptop is closed - to display new email/iCal/WiFi sig strenght on a very low power requirement when the PowerBook is in sleepmode.

Now would this mean Apple's partnership with NVidia strengthen with NForce3 chipset for interconnects? If so what about engineer jobs @ Apple that does this sort of design?

Eitherway Apple will have to do some pretty serious design and hardware implementation feats to further differentiate not between its on consumer & professional lineup but the Wintel competition. I still expect to see somewhat higher prices for Apple machines compared to Wintel machines; just better OS. However, just because the deal with Intel doesnt mean that we're gonna use Intel's Pentium lineup of CPU's entirely; maybe the deal had to do with a scaled down version of the Itanium2 64-bit cpu? Will Intels' Yonah cpu be able to compete with AMD's dualcore offering of Opteron? I truely hope so.

I still want a Mac - & probably go with iMac rev B (G5) for nastalgic and present day availability reasons; but how long should anyone expect software support? Will software, once the complete lineup goes Intel, still be avaible for G5's? The reason I ask is because there will more than likely be no AltiVec specific instructions coded, and will it cost more in development time for the G5? God this whole transition is hurting my head and causing me to gloom. Sorry everyone! :(

2MB L2 cache at FULL cpu speed sounds very VERY sweet!!!

eVolcre
Jun 8, 2005, 12:41 AM
1st off Apple will maintain their Industry Leading design. The ONLY thing I hope that Apple gets from this deal with Intel is the possibility of PowerBooks - if the market name stays - will incorporate Intels design idea of a secondary LCD/OLED on the outside of the case - when laptop is closed - to display new email/iCal/WiFi sig strenght on a very low power requirement when the PowerBook is in sleepmode.

Now would this mean Apple's partnership with NVidia strengthen with NForce3 chipset for interconnects? If so what about engineer jobs @ Apple that does this sort of design?

Eitherway Apple will have to do some pretty serious design and hardware implementation feats to further differentiate not between its on consumer & professional lineup but the Wintel competition. I still expect to see somewhat higher prices for Apple machines compared to Wintel machines; just better OS. However, just because the deal with Intel doesnt mean that we're gonna use Intel's Pentium lineup of CPU's entirely; maybe the deal had to do with a scaled down version of the Itanium2 64-bit cpu? Will Intels' Yonah cpu be able to compete with AMD's dualcore offering of Opteron? I truely hope so.

I still want a Mac - & probably go with iMac rev B (G5) for nastalgic and present day availability reasons; but how long should anyone expect software support? Will software, once the complete lineup goes Intel, still be avaible for G5's? The reason I ask is because there will more than likely be no AltiVec specific instructions coded, and will it cost more in development time for the G5? God this whole transition is hurting my head and causing me to gloom. Sorry everyone! :(

2MB L2 cache at FULL cpu speed sounds very VERY sweet!!!

What's an L2 cache? What does it do? And what does it mean when you say 2MB L2 cache at FULL speed? is that better than a 1MB cache? Is it better than a 2MB cache at SLOW speed? Edumacate me ... :)

savar
Jun 8, 2005, 02:21 AM
So, unless Intel has been keeping a whole new desktop chip architecture under the tightest security ever, the Apple desktops would either have to be equipped with NetBurst chips or some variant of the Pentium-M. The latter option is no bad thing though - I have a Pentium-M Dothan 2.0 running in a desktop unit at home, and it walks all over my old P4-3.0.....

My impression from ArsTechnica is that Intel isn't beginning to move their chips over to a PM-architecture. Actually, they've been planning out this move for at least 2 years already, and a desktop successor to the P4 will be out within a year...Hopefully the timing will allow Apple to throw them into their first desktop machines.

gamestriker
Jun 8, 2005, 09:38 AM
I was thinking of selling mine and going with a 15" PB, but this Intel PB intrigues me. I was shocked at first at the move, like everyone else, but I must admit this will be a very good move in terms of laptops.

The Pentium M chips dominate the PC Laptop market for a reason -- because they are very good chips. I've seen them walk all over a Pentium 4 desktop with no problem. If you can get a PowerBook that can do that, I will spend the 2500 bucks the day it comes out on a PowerBook 15" Pentium M 3.0Ghz Dual (or Quad Processor) with SuperDrive 8x Dual-Layer, 512MB RAM, 160GB HD, 128 MB GPU, AE/BT on OS X 10.4.6.

My question is when can we expect these? End of the year perhaps at the earliest? I mean if they've been planning this for a while, they should be able to pull it off without much trouble. Saying that, we can prolly expect one more PowerBook update before the new Intel ones come out.

eVolcre
Jun 8, 2005, 10:18 AM
I was thinking of selling mine and going with a 15" PB, but this Intel PB intrigues me. I was shocked at first at the move, like everyone else, but I must admit this will be a very good move in terms of laptops.

The Pentium M chips dominate the PC Laptop market for a reason -- because they are very good chips. I've seen them walk all over a Pentium 4 desktop with no problem. If you can get a PowerBook that can do that, I will spend the 2500 bucks the day it comes out on a PowerBook 15" Pentium M 3.0Ghz Dual (or Quad Processor) with SuperDrive 8x Dual-Layer, 512MB RAM, 160GB HD, 128 MB GPU, AE/BT on OS X 10.4.6.

My question is when can we expect these? End of the year perhaps at the earliest? I mean if they've been planning this for a while, they should be able to pull it off without much trouble. Saying that, we can prolly expect one more PowerBook update before the new Intel ones come out.


Same here. Except I would want a 12 or a 13.1". To you reqs I would add bluetooth, wireless, wimax (?) and most important SIZE, weight, style and an 8 hour battery life. Man, I cannot wait!!

steve_hill4
Jun 8, 2005, 10:24 AM
I am still in two minds myself whether to see what they offer with a pentium m PowerBook/iBook or to try and snap up one of the last G4 based ones. I plan a purchase within the next 12 months, so I might try to get hold of one of the older ones, (after the standard price drop that happens with older stock when Steve announces the new models), rather than get one of the x86 range.

I am still not entirely convinced that the Intel switch is the right move, but will continue to keep a close eye on what advantages it will offer and may wait that bit longer if it is worth it.

eVolcre
Jun 8, 2005, 10:40 AM
I was thinking of selling mine and going with a 15" PB, but this Intel PB intrigues me. I was shocked at first at the move, like everyone else, but I must admit this will be a very good move in terms of laptops.

The Pentium M chips dominate the PC Laptop market for a reason -- because they are very good chips. I've seen them walk all over a Pentium 4 desktop with no problem. If you can get a PowerBook that can do that, I will spend the 2500 bucks the day it comes out on a PowerBook 15" Pentium M 3.0Ghz Dual (or Quad Processor) with SuperDrive 8x Dual-Layer, 512MB RAM, 160GB HD, 128 MB GPU, AE/BT on OS X 10.4.6.

My question is when can we expect these? End of the year perhaps at the earliest? I mean if they've been planning this for a while, they should be able to pull it off without much trouble. Saying that, we can prolly expect one more PowerBook update before the new Intel ones come out.


From another post I made ...

[I don't know if I agree with all of that. There is no point in bumping the PB's with the same PPC chip. The huge drawback of PPC is in the laptop line. As a result the best advantage for the new Intel chips is in the laptop line. Workstations won't b e as sensitive or see as much of a a difference in design or performance with the change. The dramatic change will be by putting a blazing fast chip in the powerbook with a supercool design that is also light. Much sexier than the MINI. The MINI might be upgraded at the same time or a little later. Apple's immmediate goal is going to be to placate the Mac loyalists and a new PB will do that.

I mean, lets say they put a new chip in the MINI and release it. What is going to be fundamentally different? Can they make the size smaller? or make apps run faster? The typical MINI buyer is a fella checking email or browing the web or playing with iphoto right? I don't think that market will see or perceive a difference in the chip.

Powerbooks is where it's at.

I do agree that there is one huge update coming in the PPC line. My gut says is that it will be in the high end PowerMac line. The desktops will likely be the last models to switch. Not to mention, the die hard users who will reall care about the whole architechture and chip change are probably PowerMac users. Normal people will pick it up knowing that it will work for 3 years and the update is at least a few cycles away. Hardcore users or scientists will pick it up to hoard it and make sure that they get thelast real MAC before the internal changes.

COuld be wrong but that's what I think. (plus i really really want a sexy ultra portable powerbook. )
__________________

punkbass25
Jun 8, 2005, 11:13 AM
i think instead they will all pick up the new powermacs because they will most likely (based on release times coincidentaly being very close (or not so coincidentaly)) have a new 64-bit chip from intel which is being designed buy the old DEC designers, who just so happened to make amazing 64 bit chips almost 10 years ago. so the new intel chip will actually be free of previous intel mistakes and will basicly just be wearing the intel sticker. It has potential to be far better then the G5 very real potential.

gamestriker
Jun 8, 2005, 11:25 AM
From another post I made ...

[I don't know if I agree with all of that. There is no point in bumping the PB's with the same PPC chip. The huge drawback of PPC is in the laptop line. As a result the best advantage for the new Intel chips is in the laptop line. Workstations won't b e as sensitive or see as much of a a difference in design or performance with the change. The dramatic change will be by putting a blazing fast chip in the powerbook with a supercool design that is also light. Much sexier than the MINI. The MINI might be upgraded at the same time or a little later. Apple's immmediate goal is going to be to placate the Mac loyalists and a new PB will do that.

I mean, lets say they put a new chip in the MINI and release it. What is going to be fundamentally different? Can they make the size smaller? or make apps run faster? The typical MINI buyer is a fella checking email or browing the web or playing with iphoto right? I don't think that market will see or perceive a difference in the chip.

Powerbooks is where it's at.

I do agree that there is one huge update coming in the PPC line. My gut says is that it will be in the high end PowerMac line. The desktops will likely be the last models to switch. Not to mention, the die hard users who will reall care about the whole architechture and chip change are probably PowerMac users. Normal people will pick it up knowing that it will work for 3 years and the update is at least a few cycles away. Hardcore users or scientists will pick it up to hoard it and make sure that they get thelast real MAC before the internal changes.

COuld be wrong but that's what I think. (plus i really really want a sexy ultra portable powerbook. )
__________________

You definitely have a point there, though we might be waiting a while for those PowerBooks then, maybe as long as September. They have to build up stock first and get everything ready and set properly.

Saying this, lets not forget the hitherto-ignored iBook. Could the iBook update that we have been waiting for could be the first Mactel? An iBook with a Pentium M? I mean this would make sense. The extra wait would be the build up for stock for when they announce it, so its ready to ship, and they would announce it just in time for the new school year.

But even I have to see this is as doubtful, considering that the developer kits JUST went out.

and I also really really want a sexy-sleek PowerBook. :)

eVolcre
Jun 8, 2005, 11:43 AM
You definitely have a point there, though we might be waiting a while for those PowerBooks then, maybe as long as September. They have to build up stock first and get everything ready and set properly.

Saying this, lets not forget the hitherto-ignored iBook. Could the iBook update that we have been waiting for could be the first Mactel? An iBook with a Pentium M? I mean this would make sense. The extra wait would be the build up for stock for when they announce it, so its ready to ship, and they would announce it just in time for the new school year.

But even I have to see this is as doubtful, considering that the developer kits JUST went out.

and I also really really want a sexy-sleek PowerBook. :)

September '05? ;) we can only fantasize eh?

I didn't think about the iBook line. You might have a point there but the only problem is that the iBook is positioned as a consumer equivalent to the pro-user Powerbook. Apple will either have to abandon that image or face the irony of having a consumer laptop more powerful than their premium brand.

I don't think they would abandon the iBook/Powerbook branding. It's too set in people's minds. That's why I really think the PB's are first.

I can wait until Septmber '06. My revA 12" PB will take me through till then. But man, I can't wait. We need to start a new thread speculating about the design and features and style of the Intel PBs.

eVolcre
Jun 8, 2005, 11:56 AM
Are there any rumors or ideas of what an Intel powerbook would look like? I saw a post in that 100 page thread that someone heard it would be the fastest, thinnest powerbook ever that would 'blow the PC world away'. Can't find the post ..

I also wonder how they could improve on the current AlBook design. It's pretty beautiful and utilitarian.

runninmac
Jun 8, 2005, 12:08 PM
Are there any rumors or ideas of what an Intel powerbook would look like? I saw a post in that 100 page thread that someone heard it would be the fastest, thinnest powerbook ever that would 'blow the PC world away'. Can't find the post ..

I also wonder how they could improve on the current AlBook design. It's pretty beautiful and utilitarian.

Yeah I will be truly amazed if the top the Alum. G4 design it goes with apple so well.

MattG
Jun 8, 2005, 12:09 PM
It would be amazing to have a laptop that fast in the body of a PowerBook...just imagine :) I'd buy one!

gekko513
Jun 8, 2005, 12:17 PM
Pentium Ms aren't exactly cheap. I don't understand why I should expect a price drop :confused:

eVolcre
Jun 8, 2005, 12:20 PM
Yeah I will be truly amazed if the top the Alum. G4 design it goes with apple so well.


Yeah. White doesn't work because it's the iBook trademark. Black has been done and is so common across the laptop industry. I'm thinking a skinnier version of the current AiBook that is widescreen. maybe carbon fiber accents? So a black and silver color?

Actually, BROWN might be pretty cool. I've never seen a brown laptop. Or maybe a copper shiny color? It would go well with laptop bags. Problem is that it won't match the Apple Screens then.

Who knows. I would buy the same design if it met my specs. But a cool revamp to start the new era of Intel chips would be awesome.

Copper sounds good the more I think about it actually. Or a dark brown.

How about Ferrari red? :eek: Sounds wierd but man, talk about making a statement.

Check out this bad boy

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/5/0,1311,sz=1&i=56887,00.gif

Every other notebook I have ever had pales in comparison to my new Ferrari-branded notebook from Acer. Since I brought my new purchase home, my IBM T-40 has been hiding in the corner, the Toshiba Tablet is putting up a brave front, the 17-inch Gateway is on the shelf looking the other way, and even the new Sony 505 looks abashed next to this stunning red box.

Acer's Ferrari-Branded NotebookFrom its three coats of high-quality automotive paint and Ferrari branding on the case to its brushed silver interior and tastefully etched logos, this machine is a thing of beauty. When I walk into a room with this baby, even the Apple users join the throngs of admirers. However, much like owning an exotic car, there are some trade-offs to all of this fame.

For instance, I rarely let this laptop leave my sight. I am convinced that should it be out of sight for a moment someone else will touch, fondle or "borrow" it. And because I worry about the finish, I am constantly aware of what I'm doing in the vicinity of the notebook. The dogs and cats know that it is off-limits, and I don't allow anyone near it with food or drink. I have a hard time thinking of putting it in a computer bag and have started to wish that I had a laptop cover, which, like a car cover, would protect it against unfit eyes, my laptop bag and the elements.

As you would expect, performance is very strong, but battery life isn't. I'm getting around 3 hours of heavy use with the 802.11g network at full power. Of course that's the same trade-off with a car; you don't buy a high-performance car and expect to get good gas mileage. (I think I just heard a snicker from the IBM T-40, which gets around 7 hours.)

Part of me wishes this notebook was fueled by the Athlon64 rather than the Athlon XP-M chip because, like with the car, I want ultimate performance—but then I take one look at the machine's lustrous coat, and somehow everything else seems trivial.

Other features include a 15-inch SXGA+ screen, coupled with 128MB ATI Radeon 9200 graphics, 512MB 333 SDRAM, a 60GB hard drive, DVD (+/-) RW, Bluetooth and 802.11g Wireless. No, it doesn't come with electric windows and air-conditioning; it does, however, have an extremely rare Ferrari optical mouse in Ferrari red, which will probably be in use years after the laptop goes to laptop heaven.

Acer's Ferrari: Under the HoodOne impressive piece of execution is that when you fire the machine up it plays a WAV file of a Ferrari race car revving its engine. That alone is worth the relatively low $1,899 price of admission. (I found it priced as low as $1,725 at PCVideoOnline.) Even when I'm in a meeting, I don't turn the sound off because of the unbridled envy that seems to show up in the eyes of my, granted mostly male, co-attendees. So far no one has complained.

The desktop screen also boasts a unique design, complete with a Ferrari racing motif and active calendar.

When talking about products targeted at individuals, I actually see a lot of IT value in the concept. A few years ago I was involved in a study to see why some firms experience failure rates that exceed 30 percent for laptop computers, and it came down to the fact that people simply were abusing their machines. If employees were given a product they were proud of as opposed to one purchased at a bargain basement piece, they took better care of it, particularly if they knew they could buy it after a reasonable two-year service life for a laptop computer.

PointerPlanning hardware upgrades? eWEEK Labs tells you what you need to know.

Executives often want products that are exclusive to them and are often more concerned with status than practicality, which means they often end up with products that cost up to twice what the company is deploying to the rank and file. With Acer's Ferrari notebook, here is a product that has the same exclusive nature and may actually cost less than the standard product given to everyone else (that can be our little secret). How often is it you can make an executive happy and stay within budget? Using a product like this to save money, even in an enterprise, is hardly unusual according to eWEEK Labs.

However, the overall goal of a product like this is to enhance the brand and drive attention to the rest of the product line. This is called a Halo product because it tends to shed positive light on other products from the same company. Even if people don't buy the Ferrari notebook they will, after seeing or hearing of it, be more likely to consider an Acer product and think of the company in a more positive light.

Overall, this is one of the highest quality laptops I have ever had, and it should serve its purpose of improving Acer's image admirably.

This idea of using another brand to enhance the value of an unrelated product (I have a Ferrari watch too) is far from unique, but Acer gets full credit for applying it to the PC market.

A black and red combination would match the U2 Ipod. Make the inside white or brushed aluminum and it matches the current displays and whew, it sounds way cool.

Midnight Blue? Either in a brushed aluminum or a matte finish? Both would look cool and 'powerful'. I'm sold on the ferrari red though.

eVolcre
Jun 8, 2005, 12:28 PM
Pentium Ms aren't exactly cheap. I don't understand why I should expect a price drop :confused:

Who said anything about a price drop? I said I'd pay 2500 for a single boot and 3000 if it also runs Windows. I agree with you, there would be no reason for a price drop in the PB line. It's going to be the high end machine that sets the bar for all other pro user laptops. iBook is a different story though

notjustjay
Jun 8, 2005, 01:23 PM
I heard somewhere that the powerbook sleep function (where everything is loaded to the RAM so you can carry on working in a second or 2) is a hardware feature which is why windows laptops take so damn long to start up after you close them...If this is the case does that mean we'll lose our PBs being ready to work on by the time the screen is at 90º??
:confused:

Oh heck no. My Dell laptops could do this just fine.

It's just that half the time, when I woke the Dell from sleep, Windows crashed...

Hibernate was much more reliable with Windows, so I got into the habit of using that instead.

m-dogg
Jun 8, 2005, 01:24 PM
Yeah I will be truly amazed if the top the Alum. G4 design it goes with apple so well.

I think a darker metallic color, like a gunmetal type color would look pretty cool... :cool:

or maybe they'll go retro...bring on the powerbook woody, with an inlaid panel of your choice of 5 exotic hardwoods! :eek: :D :eek: :D

eVolcre
Jun 8, 2005, 01:28 PM
I think a darker metallic color, like a gunmetal type color would look pretty cool... :cool:

or maybe they'll go retro...bring on the powerbook woody, with an inlaid panel of your choice of 5 exotic hardwoods! :eek: :D :eek: :D


HEHEHE, powerbook woody. :D

tomjleeds
Jun 8, 2005, 03:40 PM
What's an L2 cache? What does it do? And what does it mean when you say 2MB L2 cache at FULL speed? is that better than a 1MB cache? Is it better than a 2MB cache at SLOW speed? Edumacate me ... :)

L2 cache is on-chip memory which the processor uses to store the data which it's working with at that exact moment.

In simple terms, the more L2 cache you have, the more data you can work with at any one time, meaning that you spend less time getting more data from main system memory. The speed bit is how often the cache can be updated (almost always the faster the better).

revenuee
Jun 8, 2005, 03:48 PM
sigh --- looks like i'll be getting this generations powerbook in september after all

not really suprized ... it was wishfull thinking on my part

UTB_Avid
Jun 8, 2005, 10:37 PM
I think a darker metallic color, like a gunmetal type color would look pretty cool... :cool:

or maybe they'll go retro...bring on the powerbook woody, with an inlaid panel of your choice of 5 exotic hardwoods! :eek: :D :eek: :D


Lets not turn our beautiful PB's into that monstrosity the Ego Tulip. Gross :p

drewyboy
Jun 8, 2005, 11:06 PM
Why has everyone forgot about the dual proc from freescale?? starting at 1.5 ghz... 10-15watts for power... 667mhz fsb... how does the pentium m compare to this? also, isn't the pent. m only going to be running 60-80% os x compared to the "g" series?? please explain to me. i have been longing a powerbook for the last 9-10 months, and if something doesn't come out b4 this fall.. i may be stuck w/ my parents crappy e-machines.

iBunny
Jun 9, 2005, 12:28 AM
Yes! No more "G5 Powerbooks tuesday threads"

Pentium M is a Far superior Processor

eVolcre
Jun 12, 2005, 04:06 PM
no more speculation on future designs? i saw that sony has vaio in burgundy or midnight blue, so that's allreadt been done.

tsk
Jun 12, 2005, 11:36 PM
Why has everyone forgot about the dual proc from freescale?? starting at 1.5 ghz... 10-15watts for power... 667mhz fsb... how does the pentium m compare to this? also, isn't the pent. m only going to be running 60-80% os x compared to the "g" series?? please explain to me. i have been longing a powerbook for the last 9-10 months, and if something doesn't come out b4 this fall.. i may be stuck w/ my parents crappy e-machines.

It just seems very unlikely they'd ever get to the dual core from Freescale. From what I know, they are not currently shipping, and I don't think the dual core is just a drop in replacement.

weg
Jun 13, 2005, 07:02 AM
does any one think we will get pentium m PB as one of the first macintel manchines if so do you think it will be before july/2006.
I want a powerbook but will not buy until the new ones come out. do you think they will be cheaper.maybe a couple of houndreds less????? :confused: :rolleyes:

Actually, it seems as if the G4 Cube will be one of the first MacIntel machines: A company called U-Power provides PCube (http://www.danaquarium.com/article.php?story=2005022810275733), an accelerator for the G4 Cube (there's also a story on Slashdot (http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/13/046214&tid=164&tid=174&tid=3) running on this).

eVolcre
Jun 13, 2005, 10:02 AM
G4 cube???? When did they ever make a G4 cube? I thought that was a much older machine

emotion
Jun 13, 2005, 10:47 AM
G4 cube???? When did they ever make a G4 cube? I thought that was a much older machine

google is your friend

eVolcre
Jun 13, 2005, 10:58 AM
google is your friend


So what's the point of this forum then? We could find all information off google. In the time it took you to type that you could have told me about the cube and we may have had a nice discussion. Now I just think you're a jerk.

Seriously, I don't understand why people post one liners like this. If you're not interested in helping don't click on the damn message.

:rolleyes:

emotion
Jun 13, 2005, 11:14 AM
So what's the point of this forum then? We could find all information off google. In the time it took you to type that you could have told me about the cube and we may have had a nice discussion. Now I just think you're a jerk.


calm down...i don't have the time to talk about whether the g4 cube exists (!). i was just pointing out the info can be had on google.


Seriously, I don't understand why people post one liners like this. If you're not interested in helping don't click on the damn message.


i thought google would help. anyway a search of the forum will also give you an answer. have you tried that?

(may i also remind that the subject of the thread is pentium m based powerbooks...that is why i clicked)

eVolcre
Jun 13, 2005, 11:19 AM
calm down...i don't have the time to talk about whether the g4 cube exists (!). i was just pointing out the info can be had on google.



i thought google would help. anyway a search of the forum will also give you an answer. have you tried that?

(may i also remind that the subject of the thread is pentium m based powerbooks...that is why i clicked)


Lets just agree to disagree. Peace. :)

emotion
Jun 13, 2005, 11:23 AM
Lets just agree to disagree. Peace. :)

ok, but no offence was intended.

eVolcre
Jun 13, 2005, 11:28 AM
ok, but no offence was intended.

None taken (now I mean). I flared up for no reason. Blame the idiots on the other end of my conference call at work. :D

weg
Jun 13, 2005, 11:36 AM
So what's the point of this forum then? We could find all information off google. In the time it took you to type that you could have told me about the cube and we may have had a nice discussion. Now I just think you're a jerk.


The G4 cube exists... the Apple reseller where I bought my Powerbook a few weeks ago even offered a refurbished one..

I googled this for you, just to give you no reason to think that I'm a jerk :D

http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/cube.html

It was actually discontinued in June 2001.

eVolcre
Jun 13, 2005, 11:47 AM
The G4 cube exists... the Apple reseller where I bought my Powerbook a few weeks ago even offered a refurbished one..

I googled this for you, just to give you no reason to think that I'm a jerk :D

http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/cube.html

It was actually discontinued in June 2001.


You guys are tagteaming up on me. :( *sniff*) You're ALL jerks! :p

I always thought that the cube was a mid 90's machine. I bought my G4 power book .. umm ... late 2002 or early 2003. It was the first one released. So I automatically assumed that the G4 chip was new. It was out in 2001? So APPLE used the same chip for close to 3 or 4 years> Sheesh, another reason why this is a good switch.

Crikey
Jun 13, 2005, 12:34 PM
I disagree with you that they wont drop prices. They drop prices all the time when they can afford to. Using x86 will force them to drop prices. Their marketshare would fall if they didn't drop prices. Pretty cases and a great os aren't enough for most people. If they see a PC a few hundred less with the same specs minus the white case and OS X most would say "o'well, guess i'm running longhorn"

I don't expect any price drops besides what we'd naturally see over a two-year span in the tech industry. I doubt Intel charges less for chips than IBM and Motorola/FreeScale do; Intel just makes better margins thanks to economies of scale.

Nothing about the switch to x86 will force Apple to drop prices; rather, they will have a lot of redesign costs to amortize over the first generations of Intel-based Macs.

Pretty cases and a great OS are enough for the small percentage of people that Apple targets. Margins are much more important to Apple than market share is. Apple is very comfortable targeting people who know what they want and will pay a couple hundred more dollars to get it.

Maybe that's only 3% of the population buying computers, but it's enough to make Apple the fifth-largest personal computer manufacturer in the world.


Crikey

Brother Michael
Jun 13, 2005, 12:36 PM
I totally agree with what you are saying about margins.

All business is:
Price, Service, Quality.

Pick two. If you pick price you will get bottom feeders. Apple has choosen for Service and Quality.

I am getting one (intel powerbook) as soon as they come out.

My G3 iBook will last me until then. <--a classic example of Quality and Service.

Mike

Crikey
Jun 13, 2005, 12:41 PM
I would hazard a guess that the first Intel Powerbooks (if they're still to be called "Power"books...) would be equipped with dual-core Pentium-M's (Yonah), and the iBooks with single-core Pentium-M's (Dothan).

That would allow Apple to maintain a simple differentiation between the two notebook lines - dual core for the power user and single core for the standard consumer. No longer any fear of the top-end iBooks overlapping the low-end Powerbook market.

( . . . )


I hope your optimistic projection trumps my realistic one: that the "professional" line (what are now called PowerBooks) will run either Dothan or Yonah, and the "consumer" line (iBooks, iMacs, and the Mac mini) will run Intel's "consumer" CPU, the Celeron. Intel already provides for product differentiation of the type you describe, and the results aren't inspiring on the consumer side.


Crikey

Brother Michael
Jun 13, 2005, 01:12 PM
Actually, I would think that Apple would have the Pentium M in the Powerbook and the Centrino in the iBook.

Mike

eVolcre
Jun 13, 2005, 01:38 PM
This may sound selfish but the Powerbook is the only one I care about. I have a feeling that's where Apple is going to focus on too. IBooks are typically low price, low margin typically bought my educators and students. They use the edu discount which brings reduces even more profit. The powerbooks are targetting the corporate and 'high' end laptop users. The sexy Powerbooks can also entice switchers. Me thinks thats where the focus will be next year. Dual core Yonahs, ultralight, widescreen, new design, maybe dual boot with windows. *drools* can't wait man, can't wait. I'll be pre ordering the first ones, bugs or no bugs. Will pick up Applecare this time though :)

Brother Michael
Jun 13, 2005, 02:03 PM
This may sound selfish but the Powerbook is the only one I care about. I have a feeling that's where Apple is going to focus on too. IBooks are typically low price, low margin typically bought my educators and students. They use the edu discount which brings reduces even more profit. The powerbooks are targetting the corporate and 'high' end laptop users. The sexy Powerbooks can also entice switchers. Me thinks thats where the focus will be next year. Dual core Yonahs, ultralight, widescreen, new design, maybe dual boot with windows. *drools* can't wait man, can't wait. I'll be pre ordering the first ones, bugs or no bugs. Will pick up Applecare this time though :)

I totally agree.

However (you had to know that was coming), nothing sticks out better than an all white notebook in a room full of oddly colored Dells and HP's and etc.

Mike

eVolcre
Jun 13, 2005, 02:17 PM
The powerbook silver color stands out too me thinks. Check out the other thread, I have put in my vote for a ferrari red powerbook. :)

Actually, jokes aside, they are bound to redesign the powerbook next year. But the current design is so functional, professoinal and stylish that I'm not sure how they would beat it.

Carbon fiber? Rubber? I like the idea of a gunmental grey or maybe even COPPER. A copper/rust color would work really well!

panphage
Jun 13, 2005, 02:48 PM
You guys are tagteaming up on me. :( *sniff*) You're ALL jerks! :p

I always thought that the cube was a mid 90's machine. I bought my G4 power book .. umm ... late 2002 or early 2003. It was the first one released. So I automatically assumed that the G4 chip was new. It was out in 2001? So APPLE used the same chip for close to 3 or 4 years> Sheesh, another reason why this is a good switch.
I OWN a G4 cube. I guess you don't remember the "Happy Birthday, G4" article? The G4 was stuck at 500mhz for AN ENTIRE YEAR. And this is after apple sold people 500mhz g4s at a certain price and then shipped 450s instead. With no price change. OUCH! Anyway, yes, the G4 is pretty old. And the cube is an old machine, as the poster said, discontinued in 2001. And the intel upgrade card for the cube is totally a hoax.

eVolcre
Jun 13, 2005, 02:57 PM
I OWN a G4 cube. I guess you don't remember the "Happy Birthday, G4" article? The G4 was stuck at 500mhz for AN ENTIRE YEAR. And this is after apple sold people 500mhz g4s at a certain price and then shipped 450s instead. With no price change. OUCH! Anyway, yes, the G4 is pretty old. And the cube is an old machine, as the poster said, discontinued in 2001. And the intel upgrade card for the cube is totally a hoax.


I had a LCII in '91. Then switched to PC's in 93 and didn't come back to the MAC until I bought my powerbook in late 2002. So I don't know too much of the inside info, just what I've learned form this site in the last few years. The CUBE looked like an awesome machine and I knew it flopped which is why it was discountinued. But man -- stuck at one speed for a year? Shipping wrong speeds? I didn't think it was THAT bad.

A few years ago I might have considered picking up an old Cube or even making a case for a CUBE part 2. Now, with the advances in mobile computing and my preferences there is NO way I will ever own a desktop. A powerful laptop with MAYBE a screen at home. For me at least, the age of the desktop has ended. Mobile all the way ....

gamestriker
Jun 13, 2005, 11:34 PM
I haven't decided whether I will get the first revision or second revision Mactintel PowerBooks (looking at that 15" :) ). I have a 12" that I bought in February for college and just bought RAM for it (1GB = <$200), so it should serve me perfectly for the next couple years. I may even wait for the Rev C Macintel PowerBooks, depending on what happens between now and then.

I'm sure though that they will kick butt, and will likely have the Yonah dual core in the first revision. I'm only worried about the bugs. Though, Apple knows what to look out for now, and since OS X has been tested with Intel for 5 years now, the only bugs that should come out are hardware related, possibly sleeping/waking issues.