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ArcticFox
Jun 7, 2005, 11:35 AM
Unless the FedEx guys are slow, today at 3:30 PM (the time I get home every day) on June 7th, 2005 I will be able to pick up my new dual 2Ghz G5 system and plant it on my desk.

It's days are already numbered, however, by the Intel switch. I have a feeling that developers are going to stop supporting the PPC platform and have to write everything for an x86 version of OS X because Intel won't make special chips for them. OS X updates are going to stop in two years, and I'll be forced to buy a new machine. Sure it'd be time for an upgrade by then anyways, but I don't have a choice in the matter.

I feel like I've just bought an outdated machine without any software support. Maybe I should have just built a new PC...

shadowmoses
Jun 7, 2005, 11:38 AM
Unless the FedEx guys are slow, today at 3:30 PM (the time I get home every day) on June 7th, 2005 I will be able to pick up my new dual 2Ghz G5 system and plant it on my desk.

It's days are already numbered, however, by the Intel switch. I have a feeling that developers are going to stop supporting the PPC platform and have to write everything for an x86 version of OS X because Intel won't make special chips for them. OS X updates are going to stop in two years, and I'll be forced to buy a new machine. Sure it'd be time for an upgrade by then anyways, but I don't have a choice in the matter.

I feel like I've just bought an outdated machine without any software support. Maybe I should have just built a new PC...

Nah your new Powermac will be good very good for years to come, just enjoy that workhorse and forget about intel..

Shadow
:D

chibianh
Jun 7, 2005, 11:42 AM
Unless the FedEx guys are slow, today at 3:30 PM (the time I get home every day) on June 7th, 2005 I will be able to pick up my new dual 2Ghz G5 system and plant it on my desk.

It's days are already numbered, however, by the Intel switch. I have a feeling that developers are going to stop supporting the PPC platform and have to write everything for an x86 version of OS X because Intel won't make special chips for them. OS X updates are going to stop in two years, and I'll be forced to buy a new machine. Sure it'd be time for an upgrade by then anyways, but I don't have a choice in the matter.

I feel like I've just bought an outdated machine without any software support. Maybe I should have just built a new PC...

Don't worry, developers would be STUPID to not support PPC for years to come because the PPC installed user base is HUGE. If they went intel only, they won't sell much. ;)

CanadaRAM
Jun 7, 2005, 11:44 AM
Your new machine's obsolescence is purely imaginary.

Think about it. What if Apple in 2007 said:

"The new PowerMacs introduced today have the newly released dual-core G6 processor, which come with a new Altivec (A-2) engine so all previous programs will run at normal speed but to take advantage of the G6, developers will have to create a G6 optimized version, Most developers will deliver "fat binaries" that have both G5 and G6 A-2 code because we have included that in our XCode tools since June 2005. OSX 10.6 delivers with the machines and has full support for dual cores and G6 A-2 operations"

Why would that be any different?

ArcticFox
Jun 7, 2005, 11:52 AM
I'm just afraid that since the x86-based processors coming in 2007 won't be compatible with the PPC software the G5 runs, all the new and cool stuff will go to the new procs and us old tymers are going to be left in the dark, forced to buy new machines not out of a need for speed but out of pure compatibility.

Edit for post above - I see what you mean, but what if you are incorrect and the new procs coming in 2007 aren't compatible with PPC software, and they are just <insert current Intel processor>?

drison
Jun 7, 2005, 12:04 PM
I'm just afraid that since the x86-based processors coming in 2007 won't be compatible with the PPC software the G5 runs, all the new and cool stuff will go to the new procs and us old tymers are going to be left in the dark, forced to buy new machines not out of a need for speed but out of pure compatibility.

Edit for post above - I see what you mean, but what if you are incorrect and the new procs coming in 2007 aren't compatible with PPC software, and they are just <insert current Intel processor>?

It's already been demonstrated that building an app to be binary compatible is not rocket science and requires little effort in the grand scheme of things. You will be compatible with newer software for a very long time.

Will new software, most likely games, be optimized for the newer, faster machines and video hardware? Of course, but that would be the same regardless of the processor architecture. That's progress.

I think most likely though you feel a bit let down like a lot of other people who invested a lot of money in these machines that they think are god-like and now that Apple says they are going to intel in the future the mystic G5 bubble has been popped and you are upset. That's fine to feel that way but you have an awesome machine on the way and besides, it's the operating system and the culture that bring people to Apple and that hasn't changed.

-Dave

crap freakboy
Jun 7, 2005, 12:04 PM
I'm just afraid that since the x86-based processors coming in 2007 won't be compatible with the PPC software the G5 runs, all the new and cool stuff will go to the new procs and us old tymers are going to be left in the dark, forced to buy new machines not out of a need for speed but out of pure compatibility.

Edit for post above - I see what you mean, but what if you are incorrect and the new procs coming in 2007 aren't compatible with PPC software, and they are just <insert current Intel processor>?

I understand your fears but seriously any developer who writes purely for the Mac-Intel PC's would be missing a large user base. Apple have taken massive steps to ensure that PPC isnt redundant once the new Mac appear. I'd just enjoy your new Mac safe in the knowledge that its still bloody fast, still supported and still the envy of the vast majority of Mac users out there running pre-G5 Macs. Like me. :)

dejo
Jun 7, 2005, 12:09 PM
It's already been demonstrated that building an app to be binary compatible is not rocket science and requires little effort in the grand scheme of things.

My feeling on this is that, if you are using Xcode for development, that is probably the case. If you are using some other IDE, it may not be so easy. Although I do hope the developers of other IDEs release updates to assist with this. I suspect Apple may be painting the picture a little rosier than it actually is. But I also hope I am proven terribly wrong.

chibianh
Jun 7, 2005, 12:12 PM
Think of the G3->G4 switch.. There are many apps that take advantage of the G4 and altivec, but they still work fine and dandy on the G3. I don't remember G3 owners calling for Jobs' head. ;)

jayscheuerle
Jun 7, 2005, 12:26 PM
From what I understand, the new compiler will create software that runs on both versions just by checking a box. Doesn't sound like you have any worries....

ArcticFox
Jun 7, 2005, 04:02 PM
OK so from how I understand you guys is that Intel is going to remake a P4 (or whatever the processor may be) to be compatible with the existing OS X kernel and itís software? As in developers wonít have to do anything to get it to run on the new chip?

Makes me feel better. Itís not about hardware support really, which is nonexistent compared to the PC world I live in, but software support. If Iím still using the same G5 system in 2007 I want to be able to run the latest software, dog-slow or not, without having to buy a new machine.

Iím still cranking on a maxed-out AthlonXP 3200+ which is outdated by todayís standards, but itís a reliable machine that doesnít need to be replaced for another year or so.

smokeyrabbit
Jun 7, 2005, 04:46 PM
Unless the FedEx guys are slow, today at 3:30 PM (the time I get home every day) on June 7th, 2005 I will be able to pick up my new dual 2Ghz G5 system and plant it on my desk.

Have fun!

It's days are already numbered, however, by the Intel switch. I have a feeling that developers are going to stop supporting the PPC platform and have to write everything for an x86 version of OS X because Intel won't make special chips for them. OS X updates are going to stop in two years, and I'll be forced to buy a new machine. Sure it'd be time for an upgrade by then anyways, but I don't have a choice in the matter.

It's days are numbered by the fact that you are purchasing a computer that was introduced 2 years ago and is less capable than the original, and the fact that technology continues to advance. I'm not sure why anyone would want Apple to continue to offer "pro" machines using 2-year old processors at this point.

I feel like I've just bought an outdated machine without any software support. Maybe I should have just built a new PC...

Outdated, not really. Certainly not cutting edge anymore. Perfect for what you need to use it for? Hopefully! Of course Apple and all developers will continue to support PPC for at least 5 years, just like Classic has stayed around, and just like 680x0 support STILL exists to a small extent in Classic. Apple knows how to help it's customers through a transition.

Also, Apple is hoping to have Intel-based Macs in one year. The whole line should be tranfered by the end of 2007. It's totally ridiculous to be sad that a computer you bought today might not be the latest and greatest in 2 years. If you want an increasing investment, try real estate or the stock market, not computers or cars. ;)

PS Your OS is the most advanced one in the world, and that will make up for all the rest.

Hemingray
Jun 7, 2005, 05:21 PM
OK so from how I understand you guys is that Intel is going to remake a P4 (or whatever the processor may be) to be compatible with the existing OS X kernel and itís software? As in developers wonít have to do anything to get it to run on the new chip?

Nooooooo... Intel doesn't need to do anything. Apple doesn't need to do anything; they've been building Intel-compatible versions of OS X for 5 years parallel to the PPC builds.

Some developers will need to tweak and recompile their programs using Universal Binaries so that it can run on both PPC and Intel-based Macs.

minimax
Jun 7, 2005, 05:44 PM
PPC will be fully supported untill at least 2010. After that, the PPC userbase might have fallen to the point that less software will be written for it. But by that time the performance of most ppc macs will be that weak that a lot of the new software won't run properly on it anyway. But even with, say, 5 year old software you can still get a lot of work done. Especially the last few years have seen relatively less advancements in the software area compared to the late eighties / early nineties. So your mac could theoretically stay usefull for the next ten years :cool: