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macman426
Jun 7, 2005, 03:42 PM
Just out of curiosty, I was thinking today about Apple's move from IBM based processors to Intel based and I had a few things pop into my head. The one was that, could this move be devestating to Mac users in that viruses could become prevalent in the Mac OS world like it is in the Windows world? Could this move make current Mac users an easy target for threats? I mean, this switch will open up many new possibilities for Apple, hopefully one will be lower price tags on Macs. Just some food for thought.

chibianh
Jun 7, 2005, 03:44 PM
Just out of curiosty, I was thinking today about Apple's move from IBM based processors to Intel based and I had a few things pop into my head. The one was that, could this move be devestating to Mac users in that viruses could become prevalent in the Mac OS world like it is in the Windows world? Could this move make current Mac users an easy target for threats? I mean, this switch will open up many new possibilities for Apple, hopefully one will be lower price tags on Macs. Just some food for thought.

The virus problems plagueing windows is a WINDOWS thing.. not an Intel thing. Sure, if OS X has more marketshare, maybe there'll be more viruses.

bosrs1
Jun 7, 2005, 03:46 PM
Just out of curiosty, I was thinking today about Apple's move from IBM based processors to Intel based and I had a few things pop into my head. The one was that, could this move be devestating to Mac users in that viruses could become prevalent in the Mac OS world like it is in the Windows world? Could this move make current Mac users an easy target for threats? I mean, this switch will open up many new possibilities for Apple, hopefully one will be lower price tags on Macs. Just some food for thought.
There might be a few viruses, but remember, we still have two advantages over PeeCee users when it comes to virus protection. 1. Smaller userbase 2. OSX, it has fewer and harder to locate security holes which make virus exploitation something very hard to do on the Mac anyway. Remember most viruses do not have anything to do with the processor.

Sun Baked
Jun 7, 2005, 03:47 PM
It's the OS (or anything made by MicroSoft), not the hardware that makes viri spread.

Plug a PC with no OS into your cable modem, and the chances of it getting infected is next to nil.

Drop Linux on it, and it's still low.

Drop Mac OS on it, and it's still low. (Since most .exe files will be attacking Windows APIs)

Drop Windows on it, and it becomes a puss filled oozing infected sore.

Of course the threat to Mac users will be higher because they'll either dual boot Windows or running Windows apps in WINE.

iN8
Jun 7, 2005, 03:49 PM
I don't expect to see the Mac become much cheaper than it already is. I expect it to still be positioned as a high end computer, featuring all the latest technologies available unlike all the bargain PC's. Apple has to maintain that " something different" to set it apart from PC's since they will be sharing the same processor.

daveL
Jun 7, 2005, 05:22 PM
The virus problems plagueing windows is a WINDOWS thing.. not an Intel thing. Sure, if OS X has more marketshare, maybe there'll be more viruses.
Not entirely true. x86 allows buffer overflow attacks to be more damaging than on PPC, because x86 allows code to be run in the data segment, whereas PPC does not. However, the newest processors from both Intel and AMD have the ability to disable execution of code in the data segment. This can potentially break some obfuscated code in the Windows world, although that kind of code doesn't exist in the PPC world, so anything ported from OS X will work with this new x86 bit turned on.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Jun 7, 2005, 05:35 PM
Not entirely true. x86 allows buffer overflow attacks to be more damaging than on PPC, because x86 allows code to be run in the data segment, whereas PPC does not. However, the newest processors from both Intel and AMD have the ability to disable execution of code in the data segment. This can potentially break some obfuscated code in the Windows world, although that kind of code doesn't exist in the PPC world, so anything ported from OS X will work with this new x86 bit turned on.That protection is actually one of the things I want to see work in practice before I buy any x86 Mac. I'm skeptical to go online with todays generation x86s, no-matter if it runs Windows or even Linux, due to the safety issues, and will not have a x86 Mac before i KNOW it is as safe as possible. And one thing is people using Wintel boxes for netsurfing, but that people actually use them for online banking, not knowing which malware an unknown trojan may have dropped of is beyond me... :eek:

On my PPC based iBook G4 running the FreeBSD based OS X I feel quite safe... :D

j_maddison
Jun 7, 2005, 06:32 PM
I don't expect to see the Mac become much cheaper than it already is. I expect it to still be positioned as a high end computer, featuring all the latest technologies available unlike all the bargain PC's. Apple has to maintain that " something different" to set it apart from PC's since they will be sharing the same processor.

I hope you're right. My worry is that apple will use some sub standard parts and still try to charge a premium. I'm not an expert but shouldn't the intel Powermac they have released to developers have had a dual Xeon in it instead of a P4? Doesnt P4 = consumer and Dueal Xeon or Itanium = Prosumer?

Jay

GFLPraxis
Jun 7, 2005, 07:06 PM
Just out of curiosty, I was thinking today about Apple's move from IBM based processors to Intel based and I had a few things pop into my head. The one was that, could this move be devestating to Mac users in that viruses could become prevalent in the Mac OS world like it is in the Windows world? Could this move make current Mac users an easy target for threats? I mean, this switch will open up many new possibilities for Apple, hopefully one will be lower price tags on Macs. Just some food for thought.


The viruses are because Windows is badly designed software.

Viruses have little to do with the processor architecture.

GFLPraxis
Jun 7, 2005, 07:07 PM
I hope you're right. My worry is that apple will use some sub standard parts and still try to charge a premium. I'm not an expert but shouldn't the intel Powermac they have released to developers have had a dual Xeon in it instead of a P4? Doesnt P4 = consumer and Dueal Xeon or Itanium = Prosumer?

Jay

The one they released to developers was only $999. That's a single proc system.

j_maddison
Jun 7, 2005, 07:20 PM
The one they released to developers was only $999. That's a single proc system.

Can you tell the paranoia is setting in already! lol

jay

blodwyn
Jun 7, 2005, 07:48 PM
That protection is actually one of the things I want to see work in practice before I buy any x86 Mac. I'm skeptical to go online with todays generation x86s, no-matter if it runs Windows or even Linux, due to the safety issues, and will not have a x86 Mac before i KNOW it is as safe as possible. And one thing is people using Wintel boxes for netsurfing, but that people actually use them for online banking, not knowing which malware an unknown trojan may have dropped of is beyond me... :eek:

On my PPC based iBook G4 running the FreeBSD based OS X I feel quite safe... :D

The Intel chip is NOT the issue. There are millions of people (I was one) that are running Linux on x86 hardware. I have heard of ZERO cases of issues with windows-intended malware infecting a Linux box. Windows is the culprit fair and square. Remove Windows and you have no worries.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Jun 8, 2005, 04:49 AM
The Intel chip is NOT the issue. There are millions of people (I was one) that are running Linux on x86 hardware. I have heard of ZERO cases of issues with windows-intended malware infecting a Linux box. Windows is the culprit fair and square. Remove Windows and you have no worries.Well, there are a few documented Linux viruses. All of them are only infecting x86 Linux boxes. Linux on PPC is not influenced.

Now, of course "a few" is a He.. of a lot better than the thousands of virus plaguing the Windows platform, but it's also much worse than none, zero, null, nada, etc. ;)

Security is (hopefully not has been) one of the major strengths of Mac OS X.

Jo-Kun
Jun 8, 2005, 05:08 AM
I hope you're right. My worry is that apple will use some sub standard parts and still try to charge a premium. I'm not an expert but shouldn't the intel Powermac they have released to developers have had a dual Xeon in it instead of a P4? Doesnt P4 = consumer and Dueal Xeon or Itanium = Prosumer?

Jay


the code written for Pentium or Xeon processors is equal... so for a developer it doens't matter wich he has under the booth to write the code & test it

they build those boxes right now because there really are no real Intel Macs available, and the want the package to be cheap enough to attract developers to do it now...

once the Intel Macs are for sale, deveopers will buy one of the high end macs and use them... this is a temporary solution... to keep them ahead and ready when the intel macs really arrive...

so don't worry ;)

j_maddison
Jun 8, 2005, 05:15 AM
the code written for Pentium or Xeon processors is equal... so for a developer it doens't matter wich he has under the booth to write the code & test it

they build those boxes right now because there really are no real Intel Macs available, and the want the package to be cheap enough to attract developers to do it now...

once the Intel Macs are for sale, deveopers will buy one of the high end macs and use them... this is a temporary solution... to keep them ahead and ready when the intel macs really arrive...

so don't worry ;)

Thanks mate. I'm sure I've heard somewhere that the road map for the Xeons is pretty exciting, so if they use those then I'll be flipping exstatic!

I do hope they go P4 for the consumer and a high end chip for the pro lines. I guess my fear is that Apple will keep the same price points but use average parts. If apple kept the same price point and put the best parts available in every unit, i think that would be a good differentiation model to follow. I guess the plus side in all of this is that the graphics cards should rock!

Jay

sw1tcher
Jun 8, 2005, 11:06 PM
I don't expect to see the Mac become much cheaper than it already is. I expect it to still be positioned as a high end computer, featuring all the latest technologies available unlike all the bargain PC's.
Um, you can't compare a "high end" Mac to a "bargain PC"

Apple has to maintain that " something different" to set it apart from PC's since they will be sharing the same processor.
They will, with their (higher) prices. :D