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MacRumors
Jan 19, 2012, 11:51 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/some-ipad-textbooks-weigh-in-above-apples-2gb-book-size-limit/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/01/pearsonbiology.jpg


Cult of Mac took a look at the size of the digital textbooks (http://www.cultofmac.com/141364/most-ibooks-author-e-textbook-download-sizes-are-between-one-and-three-gigabytes/) available on iBooks after today's education-focused media event (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/live-coverage-of-apples-education-focused-media-event/). File sizes range from Pearson's 793MB Environmental Science up to a hefty 2.77GB for Biology.

- Pearson's Environmental Science (http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/environmental-science/id495557529?mt=13) - 793MB
- National's Chemistry (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMetaBook?id=495297727&mt=13&s=143441) - 959MB
- E.O. Wilson's Life On Earth (http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/e.o.-wilsons-life-on-earth/id490270998?mt=13) - 965MB
- McGraw Hill's Algebra 1 (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMetaBook?id=495295887&mt=13&s=143441) - 1.09GB
- McGraw Hill's Geometry (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMetaBook?id=493696248&mt=13&s=143441) - 1.22GB
- McGraw Hill's Physics (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMetaBook?id=495298858&mt=13&s=143441) - 1.25GB
- McGraw Hill's Biology (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMetaBook?id=493686280&mt=13&s=143441) - 1.49GB
- Pearson's Biology (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMetaBook?id=495419506&mt=13&s=143441) - 2.77GBFor regular authors, Apple limits the file size (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5071#3) of books created with the iBooks Author app to 2GB -- something that Pearson's tome easily exceeds. Unsurprisingly, major publishers get to bypass limits that the average author must abide.

Article Link: Some iPad Textbooks Weigh In Above Apple's 2GB Book Size Limit (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/some-ipad-textbooks-weigh-in-above-apples-2gb-book-size-limit/)



utwarreng
Jan 19, 2012, 11:53 AM
Well, that's one way to up-sell to students wavering between the 16GB and 32GB versions.

nuckinfutz
Jan 19, 2012, 11:54 AM
Now I know why Apple acquired Anobit.

128GB iPads can't come soon enough.

sexualchocolate
Jan 19, 2012, 12:00 PM
This will be interesting. Especially for schools iPads have to be as cheap as possible and now it seems that the 16GB version will be quite insufficient. I really wonder when or if they will introduce educational pricing for iPads. Or possibly a cheaper iPad 2 come March.

jayducharme
Jan 19, 2012, 12:03 PM
Let's hope students can not only afford an iPad (unless the schools give them one) but also afford a speedy ISP. Can you imagine all of your textbooks being delivered to your iPad? It could take the better part of an afternoon to download them!

But the best part about Apple's digital textbook concept is that the books themselves are now affordable.

nad8e
Jan 19, 2012, 12:08 PM
Article Link: Some iPad Textbooks Weigh In Above Apple's 2GB Book Size Limit (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/some-ipad-textbooks-weigh-in-above-apples-2gb-book-size-limit/)

A 500 page text book at 2.77GB is 5.54MB/page... maybe tone down the picture resolution a bit?!

Or allow downloading of individual chapters?! :rolleyes:

sexualchocolate
Jan 19, 2012, 12:13 PM
A 500 page text book at 2.77GB is 5.54MB/page... maybe tone down the picture resolution a bit?!

Or allow downloading of individual chapters?! :rolleyes:

Maybe Apple told them to make the books ready for higher resolution iPads? When they are going to announce a Retina display iPad 3, it makes sense to have all these things ready for it. Just a hopeful guess.

ArtOfWarfare
Jan 19, 2012, 12:18 PM
Or allow downloading of individual chapters?! :rolleyes:

That's actually a pretty good idea... It seems like frequently teachers only teach select chapters out of a textbook, like, 12 chapters out of a 20 chapter textbook.

charlituna
Jan 19, 2012, 12:18 PM
This will be interesting. Especially for schools iPads have to be as cheap as possible and now it seems that the 16GB version will be quite insufficient.


Not really. Schools aren't going to care about leaving space for students to have music and games on the iPads. Especially if they are school owned and loaned to the students. When you consider that most students are taking between 6-8 classes, a 16 GB could be exactly the right size for these texts which is all the school is going to care to have on the iPads.

Mr. Retrofire
Jan 19, 2012, 12:28 PM
Apple should use LZMA or LZMA2 instead of BZip2 and ZLIB for all compression tasks on the Mac OS X platform (App Store, eBooks, Updates, File System...). Lion uses still a zlib-compressed file system.

Edit: I see a lot of pictures in these books. They should use JPEG2000 compression instead of JPEG 6.0.

sexualchocolate
Jan 19, 2012, 12:32 PM
Not really. Schools aren't going to care about leaving space for students to have music and games on the iPads. Especially if they are school owned and loaned to the students. When you consider that most students are taking between 6-8 classes, a 16 GB could be exactly the right size for these texts which is all the school is going to care to have on the iPads.

You could be right. Although I have seen schools using the iPad not only for books, but apps too. It would be a bit of a waste to use the iPad solely for books and nothing else. These new textbooks have interactive features, but they probably won't make all the learning apps obsolete.

Mr. Retrofire
Jan 19, 2012, 12:33 PM
128GB iPads can't come soon enough.
Or they should use better compression methods (same visual quality).

utwarreng
Jan 19, 2012, 12:35 PM
Not really. Schools aren't going to care about leaving space for students to have music and games on the iPads. Especially if they are school owned and loaned to the students. When you consider that most students are taking between 6-8 classes, a 16 GB could be exactly the right size for these texts which is all the school is going to care to have on the iPads.

16GB isn't big enough when you consider that many teachers teach from multiple books. In this case, being able to download specific chapters would be a great way to do it.

jontech
Jan 19, 2012, 12:36 PM
Or they should use better compression methods (same visual quality).

Wonder if they will have a 256gb version as well

charlituna
Jan 19, 2012, 01:11 PM
16GB isn't big enough when you consider that many teachers teach from multiple books.

Multiple books but rarely multiple TEXTBOOKS. And even then it isn't many teachers when you are talking high school. Advanced history and English classes will have supplemental reading almost always but those are standard books like "The Things We Carried" and "Hamlet" that will be 10MB or so at most. The rest of the classes are generally one text book with perhaps a workbook that is now in the textbook

----------

You could be right. Although I have seen schools using the iPad not only for books, but apps too.

True, but often those apps are in place of a textbook so it balances out.

cyprian.pl
Jan 19, 2012, 02:02 PM
Before kids could complain that books don't fit their backpack, now that books don't fit their iPad.

garylapointe
Jan 19, 2012, 03:59 PM
But this is one of the largest available texts. They aren't all going to be that big!!!

Besides, isn't there probably some AUDIO and VIDEO in there too?
It's not 5 MB every page!

As someone who works with schools, $14.99 for a text book this large is incredible. I don't know how long it would take to pay these off to make them cost effective.

But, if I have kids with these replacing other books and sheet music and all sorts of things.

Having the iPads will also result in lower computer lab use.

If you don't have enough rooms in a school building this could help solve that, especially How? If I can close a computer lab or two in my high school, I

Gary

flottenheimer
Jan 19, 2012, 04:02 PM
Bags used to be stuffed with books.
Pretty soon they'll be stuffed with 16gb iPads.

centauratlas
Jan 19, 2012, 04:08 PM
For something like biology, high res is great. For example you can see a cell at 10 X and then by zooming take it down all they way to 1000 X (for example). So you could look at cells with different conditions, different types of cells or whatever. Imagine checking out red blood cells that are anemic vs normal or sickle cell at amazing resolutions without having to go to a lab, just while studying.

Or an image sequence of a virus infecting a cell. Lots of amazing stuff. And for most of this type of thing you want lossless compression so you don't lose details.

Ditto for Chem. Or Physics. Or Computer Engineering to zoom in on an entire CPU layout.

Think about a book on nano-tech too! Interactive exercises.

I can see why it might need to be large for many books - hopefully the size limits are bumped up for everyone eventually.

Pretty cool - gives lots of new capabilities. I think Steve J would've really loved that type of capability.

A 500 page text book at 2.77GB is 5.54MB/page... maybe tone down the picture resolution a bit?!

Or allow downloading of individual chapters?! :rolleyes:

damir00
Jan 19, 2012, 06:59 PM
The Wilson book is only 2 chapters. And weighs in at about a gig.

That's pretty...hefty.

twoodcc
Jan 20, 2012, 01:21 AM
Dang that seems like a lot of content for one book. I guess I can see why apple has set limits

chameleon81
Jan 20, 2012, 05:41 AM
This will be interesting. Especially for schools iPads have to be as cheap as possible and now it seems that the 16GB version will be quite insufficient. I really wonder when or if they will introduce educational pricing for iPads. Or possibly a cheaper iPad 2 come March.
Dropping the cameras might help. Having cameras are fun but not extremely important in my opinion.

Yumunum
Jan 20, 2012, 05:45 AM
My thoughts:

-this might be a large incentive to buy 32GB and 64GB models :P

-if you're really using this for school, how many books do you actually need at once? Maybe it's not as bad as we'd think. With iCloud you could always delete the books at the end of the quarter/semester/year (however long you need them for) and if for some reason you wanted it back in the future, you'd still have them.

-but, even during the school year... yeah, that's a lot. If you have the 14GB (yes, cuz that's about all you have on the "16GB" model), you'd really want to limit your media.

FloatingBones
Jan 20, 2012, 09:31 AM
-if you're really using this for school, how many books do you actually need at once? Maybe it's not as bad as we'd think. With iCloud you could always delete the books at the end of the quarter/semester/year (however long you need them for) and if for some reason you wanted it back in the future, you'd still have them.

Back in July, there was a rumor that Apple would be hosting Lion updates on servers in its stores (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/19/apple-retail-stores-to-use-local-mac-pro-servers-to-distribute-lion-to-customers/) to ease the download times. This didn't happen, but Apple could use that for schools where a mini-in-a-closet cached books that students were likely to use.

I think Clarke's second and third laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws) are quite applicable to deployment of these shiny new books in schools:


2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

mrjobs
Jan 20, 2012, 10:24 AM
16GB is fine. You don't need all the books at the same time - you can have 32GB worth of books and a 16GB iPad and then simply ensure you sync the relevant books on each day, depending on your lessons.

Nevertheless Apple do need to look at building in compression here - text should weigh in at nothing, but images can be compressed without losing resolution - see Adobe's 'Save for Web' function for example. Another answer would be to 'Zip' the books up on the iPad when they are not being read, and 'Unzip' them when they are opened?

BigPrince
Jan 20, 2012, 10:34 AM
They also better come up with a better deployment solution for schools to implement if this is going to catch on....these things don't just come ready out of the box...

Amazing Iceman
Jan 20, 2012, 11:29 AM
16GB is fine. You don't need all the books at the same time - you can have 32GB worth of books and a 16GB iPad and then simply ensure you sync the relevant books on each day, depending on your lessons.

Nevertheless Apple do need to look at building in compression here - text should weigh in at nothing, but images can be compressed without losing resolution - see Adobe's 'Save for Web' function for example. Another answer would be to 'Zip' the books up on the iPad when they are not being read, and 'Unzip' them when they are opened?

Too close for comfort. It would be a terrible investment to get 16GB iPads, knowing the risk of running out of storage.
The 16GB iPad may become extinct very soon, specially when the 128GB model comes out. The 32GB model will start at $499.00. And schools/students will get a nice discount.

I'm sure that image compression is used, but there are cases when you don't want a compressed image, as it may loose definition while zooming. Specially in Biology, you want images that are as close to the real sample as possible.

gpat
Jan 20, 2012, 12:00 PM
I could see the 32GB iPad becoming standard soon, but that would be too cheap with Apple's standards, considering that the next iPad will probably have Retina Display, LTE and improved camera as well.


16GB is fine. You don't need all the books at the same time - you can have 32GB worth of books and a 16GB iPad and then simply ensure you sync the relevant books on each day, depending on your lessons.

It would be great if automatized. Too big of an hassle if you had to do it manually.

Another answer would be to 'Zip' the books up on the iPad when they are not being read, and 'Unzip' them when they are opened?[
Would be slooooooow.

Consultant
Jan 20, 2012, 01:00 PM
A 500 page text book at 2.77GB is 5.54MB/page... maybe tone down the picture resolution a bit?!

Or allow downloading of individual chapters?! :rolleyes:

Chapter at a time = good idea. Perhaps as an option.

Size: it can also include videos and other content. Not just photos.

garylapointe
Jan 20, 2012, 03:35 PM
16GB is fine. You don't need all the books at the same time - you can have 32GB worth of books and a 16GB iPad and then simply ensure you sync the relevant books on each day, depending on your lessons.
That sounds quite inconvenient! Swapping out only 8 GB a day would completely use up your DSL allotment for a month (at home) assuming they even have internet (plus wireless) at home; or are you assuming every kid has their own computer that they can plug this into and sync at night (and no siblings that need to sync either, since it's going to need to sit there for a while). I promise this isn't a safe assumption. All it takes is one kid who doesn't meet these requirements and it all falls apart. Put in more storage year for 1 and make sure you have enough...


Nevertheless Apple do need to look at building in compression here - text should weigh in at nothing, but images can be compressed without losing resolution - see Adobe's 'Save for Web' function for example. Another answer would be to 'Zip' the books up on the iPad when they are not being read, and 'Unzip' them when they are opened?
Why are you assuming there isn't decent compression? I just compressed a 2 MB book and got about 10% compression. Very low.

I suppose I could compress all my images more, but if I didn't want to, I'd be upset if Apple did it to my book (that's not what I created!).

(FYI, the PDF export was 6.5 MB for best and 1 MB for good quality. Neither compressed more than 0.5%.)

Gary

mandysinn
Jan 20, 2012, 08:41 PM
the ipad books are available in the sizes of 16 and 32GB. You don't need to buy the book of huge size.Just review your need of lessons and according to the need buy a simple book of relevant size.



iKeep Charger (http://www.poldera.com)

Mr. Retrofire
Jan 21, 2012, 10:20 AM
Another answer would be to 'Zip' the books up on the iPad when they are not being read, and 'Unzip' them when they are opened?

EPUB 3 (and Apples version of this format) uses already zlib-compression (deflate, like in .zip files). However, animations seem to be in the SVG format (which uses also zlib-compression) and pictures are compressed according to the JPEG 6.0 standard. Both compression methods are very inefficient, if compared to LZMA and JPEG2000. The newer compression methods are able to compress the text- and image-files 30-60 percent better than the older methods. PDF supports JPEG2000 since 2003. Adobe uses LZMA within .7z archives for large applications (Creative Suite for Windows), which reduces the necessary bandwith and download time.

Apple obviously likes large downloads, wasted bandwith, wasted storage space and old compression methods. How user-friendly!

Cubytus
Jan 21, 2012, 08:33 PM
Let's hope students can not only afford an iPad (unless the schools give them one) but also afford a speedy ISP.
That sounds quite inconvenient! Swapping out only 8 GB a day would completely use up your DSL allotment for a month (at home) assuming they even have internet (plus wireless) at home; or are you assuming every kid has their own computer that they can plug this into and sync at night (and no siblings that need to sync either, since it's going to need to sit there for a while). I promise this isn't a safe assumption. All it takes is one kid who doesn't meet these requirements and it all falls apart. Put in more storage year for 1 and make sure you have enough...Apple is probably assuming that, us being in 2012, in developed countries at least, 100% of kids would have a functional PC or Mac at home, as well as a decent ISP, i.e. without any kind of quota. That looks soooo 1996. In 1998, when a teacher asked a class of 31 about who had a computer, 30 hands raised; and to «who has Internet at home», 29 hands raised. That was 13 years ago.
So it's a pretty safe bet to assume that all kids from 2012 would have a computer at home, and an ISP either at home, or by the school wifi network.

It's not Apple's fault if the USA are, by many standards, a technically retarded country. I'd be glad that Apple's intiative, as well as Google's one pushed for more decent ISP plans, as they get in Europe.

I can readily picture a school where an administrator would use iCal events to automatically load and unload student's iPads with chapters they need for the following day, without

They should use JPEG2000 compression instead of JPEG 6.0.The issue being that JPEG2000 is still, many years after its creation, widely unsupported.

Dropping the cameras might help. Having cameras are fun but not extremely important in my opinion.Actually, a higher-resolution camera as well as a more sensitive, plug-in or integrated mic, would be a boon for students. How many times have we wished to keep a picture of a particular figure the professor drew on the chalk- or whiteboard? Much faster than trying to reproduce it by hand.

Mr. Retrofire
Jan 23, 2012, 09:05 PM
The issue being that JPEG2000 is still, many years after its creation, widely unsupported.

iOS 5.x.x supports JPEG2000.

Robbwal12 on http://forums.adobe.com/message/3979251
I tried a PDF file that contains a JPEG 2000 image embedded... It seems that all other PDF viewers on iOS 5 are able to display the same document!

Jadasc on http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/9745/why-cant-some-images-in-the-pdf-be-viewed-on-ibook-of-ipad-or-ipod-touch

The trouble is in the handling of JPEG2000 image files. Some solutions are offered here. If this was your problem, it was solved with the release of iOS 5. Those images should be viewable now.

Carlanga
Jan 24, 2012, 11:46 AM
The only issue I have with this is favoritism but I understand why they give them more privileges to the big boys. Also, Biology textbooks can show lots of cool things in videos or pic comparison that can make it way better to understand than to show 10 paragraphs explaining a cycle with words; while literature and social sciences don't need videos unless you are watching a movie based on it and for that you can just buy/rent/stream movies online.