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Panny TM90 camcorder in 1080/60p - how to edit in FCP or something else?

C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
Hi, I have a TM90, which I thought would be a great camcorder. Unfortunately, the TM90 doesn't support the Mac unless you use the incredibly lousy iFrame format. AVCHD and the 1080/60p mode does not work in iMovie or FCP. You have to edit the MTS file so it will work on Mac.

This is where I am stuck-- how do I rework the MTS file so I can use it to either watch the video or to edit it in FCP?

And why doesn't Mac support 1080/60p video???

I'm very upset this doesn't work; if I try to watch the video it is choppy and that makes it unwatchable. :(
 
K

KeithPratt

macrumors 6502a
Mar 6, 2007
804
3
Give ClipWrap a try. It should allow you to rewrap MTS to MOV (for viewing) or transcode to ProRes/Apple Intermediate Codec (for editing).
 
T

trstno1

macrumors newbie
Aug 31, 2004
12
0
Ames, IA
I think you can edit the 1080i AVCHD video formats. I have the HDC-TM900. It takes forever to convert to Apple Intermediate Codec, but you can input into iMovie. Alternatively, Adobe Premiere will edit AVCHD natively.

I also wish it was easier to edit 1080p video, and I can't even imagine what I would do if I recorded in 3d.
 
K

Keebler

macrumors 68030
Jun 20, 2005
2,960
207
Canada
I'm with you- I have the same camera and shoot in 1080P at 60 fps so I can slo mo some footage and it's ridiculous there's no proper workflow.

Clipwrap does do a great job of ripping the mts into prores files. They are working on making it use multiple cores better, but the batch feature is great to set it up and let it go.

I'm trying to find a deal on the Premiere Pro suite. I'm an idiot for not buying the deal they had in the fall. complete! :)
 
C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
KeithPratt said:
Give ClipWrap a try. It should allow you to rewrap MTS to MOV (for viewing) or transcode to ProRes/Apple Intermediate Codec (for editing).
Click to expand...

I used ClipWrap but it is still skipping when I try to play it in VLC or Quicktime. Is there a specific setting I should use?


So, if I use Premiere Pro, I can edit the 1080/60p videos immediately? Or does it in need to be in AVCHD format? Which one?
 
C

cgbier

macrumors 6502a
Jun 6, 2011
933
2
Transcode it to 30p ProRes.
Even Sony Vegas has problems with 60p, and the footage needs to be edited in 30p.
 
C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
Thanks all. One last question, these videos are of my newborn child, and I plan on sending out DVDs every couple months to family members around the US (eventually overseas but that's not as important right now as I know that complicates things)... should I shoot in a different format than 1080/60p? Or do I need to change the transcoding settings because I want to burn to DVD?

To be clear, the people I will send the DVD have little to no knowledge of technology, so it really needs to be "put in the disc, press play and it plays" for them....


Thanks!
 
MisterMe

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,709
69
USA
cmm said:
... should I shoot in a different format than 1080/60p? Or do I need to change the transcoding settings because I want to burn to DVD?

To be clear, the people I will send the DVD have little to no knowledge of technology, so it really needs to be "put in the disc, press play and it plays" for them....


Thanks!
Click to expand...
720/60p is a standard format, but 1080/60p is not. The 1080 standard formats include 1080/24p for cinema [such as Blu-ray]; 1080/60i for broadcast; and 1080/30p for progressive scan. 1080/60p generates approximately twice as many pixels and, thus, requires twice as much processing power as 1080/30p. Now here is the kicker--Your delivery medium is DVD. Standard media DVD has pixel density 720x480. The theoretical maximum for DVD is 720x480/60p. However, the source of most [commercial] DVD is 24 fps film. Therefore, most [commercial] DVDs are effectively 720x480/24p. The level of your recipients' technical sophistication is irrelevant. Any DVD authoring application such as iDVD will produce a finalized DVD that is playable in any DVD player. The DVD will also be playable on any computer that accepts DVD discs and has a DVD player application that accepts standard media DVDs.

The only way that you can transport 1080p video via DVD is to send a data DVD. In this case, you must then deal with the issue of whether or not your recipient has the proper codecs to play your video format.
 
C

cgbier

macrumors 6502a
Jun 6, 2011
933
2
Why don't you just shoot in 30p and distribute via the web? You can protect your movies with a password on most sharing sites.
DVD are so nineties.
 
C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
MisterMe said:
720/60p is a standard format, but 1080/60p is not. The 1080 standard formats include 1080/24p for cinema [such as Blu-ray]; 1080/60i for broadcast; and 1080/30p for progressive scan. 1080/60p generates approximately twice as many pixels and, thus, requires twice as much processing power as 1080/30p. Now here is the kicker--Your delivery medium is DVD. Standard media DVD has pixel density 720x480. The theoretical maximum for DVD is 720x480/60p. However, the source of most [commercial] DVD is 24 fps film. Therefore, most [commercial] DVDs are effectively 720x480/24p. The level of your recipients' technical sophistication is irrelevant. Any DVD authoring application such as iDVD will produce a finalized DVD that is playable in any DVD player. The DVD will also be playable on any computer that accepts DVD discs and has a DVD player application that accepts standard media DVDs.

The only way that you can transport 1080p video via DVD is to send a data DVD. In this case, you must then deal with the issue of whether or not your recipient has the proper codecs to play your video format.
Click to expand...

So even with a short, 20-30 minute movie, it won't fit, size wise, on a DVD? I thought the low maximum resolution on DVDs was because a full length movie took up too much space, which is why the resolution wasn't as high as it could be. That's not the case?

The only other option is to burn the movie as a file to DVD, and have the user watch it via their computer (or their DVD player, if it supports the format)?

sigh :/
cgbier said:
Why don't you just shoot in 30p and distribute via the web? You can protect your movies with a password on most sharing sites.
DVD are so nineties.
Click to expand...

Old people like physical products and many don't use the Internet. They'd prefer to watch a movie on a TV, rather than a small computer screen.

(I just had a child so I'm making home-made videos for family members across the country)
 
MisterMe

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,709
69
USA
cmm said:
So even with a short, 20-30 minute movie, it won't fit, size wise, on a DVD? I thought the low maximum resolution on DVDs was because a full length movie took up too much space, which is why the resolution wasn't as high as it could be. That's not the case?

...
Click to expand...
The resolution of a standard media DVD is 720x480. No if's, no and's, no but's. It has nothing to do with the duration of the video.
 
C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
I see. So, when you upload the movie in iDVD, does it automatically convert to that resolution?
 
C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
Which codec that comes with ClipWrap will use the least amount of HDD space and work with FCP? Can you add more transcoding codecs to ClipWrap? Any that you recommend?

I was using Apple ProRes 422 and I turned a 800mb source MTS file into a 5.2GB mov file and would like to find something lighter. I know ProRes 422 LT uses less space, but when I ran the same file, it was still high-- 3.57GB. I don't know if any of the other options produce similar quality while using less disk space...

Or should I expect this? i just find it odd that the source file is less than 1GB and when I format it so FCP can read it, the size of the file increases to 5GB+
 
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C

cgbier

macrumors 6502a
Jun 6, 2011
933
2
That's normal. AVCHD has a very high compression rate. To save space, transcode to AIC. It comes close to ProRes, and for DVD, you don't need 4:2:2
 
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C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
cgbier said:
That's normal. AVCHD has a very high compression rate. To save space, transcode to AIC. It comes close to ProRes, and for DVD, you don't need 4:2:2
Click to expand...

Thanks! It is indeed smaller EDIT- The reason it appeared in slow motion was become I was still transcoding. When I stopped Clip Wrap completely, all the videos played normally

One more problem, though: What happened to the sound? On all my files, the sound is missing after I transcode with AIC... I can hear the sound fine on the raw MTS files....

I loaded the original MTS file in VLC, and clicked "Media Information" and it says the audio stream is an "A52 Audio (aka AC3) (A52), 48000hz, 256kb/s bitrate" codec.... Does that help?

I saw from this thread that Macs, out of the box, can't decode AC3, and it is suggested to install Perian. I have Perian 1.2.3 installed now (I saw another thread that said there was a bug with 1.2.3 and 1.2.2 would work, but when I tried that, I still had no sound) and I still don't have sound? Do I need to add a codec to Perian, or point Quicktime to Perian somehow?

When I rewrapped via ClipWrap, the sound is a blaring, in what I can best describe, weed whacker sound, in both VLC and Quicktime. Media Information shows "PCM S24 LE (42ni)" codec, sample rate 48000hz and bits per sample 24.

If it matters, I have "Convert Audio to LPCM" checked off in the preferences pane.

I'm lost and I've tried everything I can think of... please advise.


Thanks again!
 
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C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
simsaladimbamba said:
Transcoding .MTS files (AVCHD footage) to an editable format (.MOV)
Click to expand...

(This is the sixth edit since my last post, but I thought this should go in its own post):

I didn't try this method at first as I wanted an easy, one app way of doing this. However, since I don't have sound on rewrapped or transcoded MTS files from ClipWrap, I decided to try this.

Sound works in VLC only after I drag the original MTS to the ReWrap2m4v application and I get a m4v video. However, there is just a "weed whacker" sound if I try to via Quicktime, but when I click "Movie Inspector", I can see the AC3 2ch, 48000hz audio format listed (similar report in VLC). The video in VLC is choppy, whereas Quicktime, it is not.

When I use MPEG Streamclip to export said m4v to Quicktime, the resulting file plays no sound in Quicktime. VLC will not work because VLC doesn't support the icod codec. Format in QT reads as follows: "Linear PCM, 16-bit big-endian signed integer, 2 channels, 48000hz".


So, it seems the problem is Quicktime/Perian and not VLC. That is to say, VLC is supplying whatever sound codecs that Quicktime/Perian does not have? Is it AC3 that is missing from Quicktime/Perian?

Suggestions?


No sound works if I play via Quicktime.
 
simsaladimbamba

simsaladimbamba

Guest
Nov 28, 2010
22,670
31
located
cmm said:
No sound works if I play via Quicktime.
Click to expand...


Sorry to hear that, as I didn't have such a problem, though I used a sample .mts file download from DPReview's review of the Sony SLT-A55.
Here is the file I used.

If you don't mind, you could upload a sample file and I could take a look at it.

Or if that is not to your liking, analyse a sample .mts and .m4v and .mov file of yours via VideoSpec, MediaInfo Mac or MediaInfo and attach the report to your next post.

Boats.mts VideoSpec report:
***** First Analyzed File Results *****

*** General Parameters ***
- Name: boats.MTS
- Container: Mpeg Transport Stream
- Creation Date: 2010-08-20 5:53:40 PM
- Size: 23.8 MiB
- Duration: 00:00:11.97
- Bitrate: 16.8 Mbps
- Encoding Library: Undefined
- Encoding Application: Undefined

*** Video Track Parameters ***
- Format: H.264/MPEG-4 AVC
- Size: 22.3 MiB (93%)
- FourCC: 0x10000005
- Track number(s): 4113
- Bitrate: Max.: Undefined
Average: 15.8 Mbps
Min.: Undefined
- Frame rate (fps): Max.: Undefined
Average: 25.000
Min.: Undefined
- Bitrate mode: Undefined
- Encoding profile: High@L4.0
- Resolution: 24 bits
- Width (Pixel number): 1920
- Height (Pixel number): 1080
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1:1
- Display aspect ratio: 16:9
- Chroma subsampling format: YUV420p
- TV standard: Undefined
- Interlacing: Interlaced - Top Field First
- Encoding library: Undefined
- Additional Parameters: CABAC: Yes
Reference Frames: 2
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) ratio: 0.305

*** Audio Track(s) Parameters ***
- Format: AC3-A52
- Size: 373 KiB (2%)
- FourCC: 0x2000
- Number(s) and language(s): 4352 (0x1100): Undefined
- Details: -
- Profile: Undefined
- Bitrate: 256 Kbps
- Bitrate mode: Constant
- Resolution: Undefined
- Rate: 48.0 KHz
- Channel(s): 2 (stereo)
- Position: Left Right
- Encoding Library: Undefined
- Additional Parameters: Not available

*** Miscellaneous ***
- Subtitle(s): #1 : PGS - ---
- Metadata: Album: Undefined
Part number: Undefined
Track name: Undefined
Track name number: Undefined
Performer: Undefined
Screenplayer/Writer: Undefined
Genre: Undefined
Encoded date: Undefined
Comment: Undefined
Album artist: Undefined
Grouping: Undefined
Copyright: Undefined
Click to expand...

Boats.m4v report from VideoSpec
***** First Analyzed File Results *****

*** General Parameters ***
- Name: boats.MTS.m4v
- Container: M4V - QuickTime
- Creation Date: 2010-08-20 5:53:40 PM
- Size: 22.5 MiB
- Duration: 0:00:12
- Bitrate: 15.8 Mbps
- Encoding Library: Undefined
- Encoding Application: Lavf52.39.2

*** Video Track Parameters ***
- Format: H.264/MPEG-4 AVC
- Size: 22.1 MiB (98%)
- FourCC: H264
- Track number(s): 0
- Bitrate: Max.: Undefined
Average: 15.5 Mbps
Min.: Undefined
- Frame rate (fps): Max.: ---
Average: 50.000
Min.: ---
- Bitrate mode: Variable
- Encoding profile: High@L4.0
- Resolution: 24 bits
- Width (Pixel number): 1920
- Height (Pixel number): 1080
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1:1
- Display aspect ratio: 16:9
- Chroma subsampling format: YUV420p
- TV standard: Undefined
- Interlacing: Interlaced - Top Field First
- Encoding library: Undefined
- Additional Parameters: CABAC: Yes
Reference Frames: 2
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) ratio: 0.150

*** Audio Track(s) Parameters ***
- Format: AC3-A52
- Size: 374 KiB (2%)
- FourCC: 0x2000
- Number(s) and language(s): 2: Undefined
- Details: -
- Profile: Undefined
- Bitrate: 256 Kbps
- Bitrate mode: Constant
- Resolution: 16 bits
- Rate: 48.0 KHz
- Channel(s): 2 (stereo)
- Position: Left Right
- Encoding Library: Undefined
- Additional Parameters: Not available

*** Miscellaneous ***
- Subtitle(s): No Subtitle
- Metadata: Album: Undefined
Part number: Undefined
Track name: Undefined
Track name number: Undefined
Performer: Undefined
Screenplayer/Writer: Undefined
Genre: Undefined
Encoded date: Undefined
Comment: Undefined
Album artist: Undefined
Grouping: Undefined
Copyright: Undefined
Click to expand...


Boats.mov report from VideoSpec
***** First Analyzed File Results *****

*** General Parameters ***
- Name: boats.MTSMOV.mov
- Container: MOV - QuickTime
- Creation Date: 2012-01-26 12:47:39 AM
- Size: 336.3 MiB
- Duration: 0:00:12
- Bitrate: 236 Mbps
- Encoding Library: Apple QuickTime
- Encoding Application: Undefined

*** Video Track Parameters ***
- Format: Apple ProRes 422
- Size: 334 MiB (99%)
- FourCC: apcn
- Track number(s): 0
- Bitrate: Max.: Undefined
Average: 234 Mbps
Min.: Undefined
- Frame rate (fps): Max.: ---
Average: 50.000
Min.: ---
- Bitrate mode: Variable
- Encoding profile: Undefined
- Resolution: Undefined
- Width (Pixel number): 1920
- Height (Pixel number): 1080
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: Undefined
- Display aspect ratio: 16:9
- Chroma subsampling format: Undefined
- TV standard: Undefined
- Interlacing: Undefined
- Encoding library: Undefined
- Additional Parameters: Bits/(Pixel*Frame) ratio: 2.260

*** Audio Track(s) Parameters ***
- Format: Uncompressed PCM
- Size: 2.19 MiB (1%)
- FourCC: twos
- Number(s) and language(s): 2: English
- Details: 16-bit, big endian, signed linear PCM
- Profile: Undefined
- Bitrate: 1 536 Kbps
- Bitrate mode: Constant
- Resolution: 16 bits
- Rate: 48.0 KHz
- Channel(s): 2 (stereo)
- Position: Undefined
- Encoding Library: Undefined
- Additional Parameters: Not available

*** Miscellaneous ***
- Subtitle(s): No Subtitle
- Metadata: Album: Undefined
Part number: Undefined
Track name: Undefined
Track name number: Undefined
Performer: Undefined
Screenplayer/Writer: Undefined
Genre: Undefined
Encoded date: UTC 2012-01-25 23:47:39
Comment: Undefined
Album artist: Undefined
Grouping: Undefined
Copyright: Undefined
Click to expand...
 
C

cmm

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 30, 2006
841
35
NYC
NB: I'm using OS X 10.7.2

The raw MTS file that I used as the sample found below just finished uploading to my server. If you still need it, let me know and I'll PM you the link

I used VideoSpec for all three reports below (I removed the "miscellaneous" category, in the interest of saving space, because there was nothing reported). Here is the report for the raw MTS file:


***** Analyzed File Results *****

*** General Parameters ***
- Name: 00009.MTS
- Container: Mpeg Transport Stream
- Size: 550.5 MB
- Duration: 2mn 53s
- Bitrate: 25.4 Mbps

*** Video Track Parameters ***
- Format: H.264/MPEG-4 AVC
- Bitrate: Max.: 26.0 Mbps / Average: 24.1 Mbps / Min.: Undefined
- Frame rate (fps): Max.: Undefined / Average: 59.940 / Min.: Undefined
- Encoding profile: High@L4.2
- Image size: 1920*1080
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: Undefined
- Display Aspect Ratio: 16:9
- Interlacing: Progressive

*** First Audio Track Parameters ***
- Format: AC3-A52
- Bitrate: 256 Kbps
- Resolution: 16 bits
- Rate: 48.0 KHz
- Channel(s): 2 (stereo)
- Position: Front: L R
Click to expand...


Below is the report after I used ClipWrap (clearly states no audio track):

***** Analyzed File Results *****

*** General Parameters ***
- Name: 00009.mov
- Container: MOV - QuickTime
- Size: 3.039 GB
- Duration: 2mn 53s
- Bitrate: 140 Mbps

*** Video Track Parameters ***
- Format: Apple Intermediate Codec
- Bitrate: Max.: Undefined / Average: 140 Mbps / Min.: Undefined
- Frame rate (fps): Max.: --- / Average: 59.940 / Min.: ---
- Encoding profile: Undefined
- Image size: 1920*1080
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: Undefined
- Display Aspect Ratio: 16:9
- Interlacing: Progressive

*** First Audio Track Parameters ***
- Format: No audio track
- Bitrate:
- Resolution:
- Rate:
- Channel(s):
- Position:
Click to expand...

Here is the report after using ReWrap2m4v:

***** Analyzed File Results *****

*** General Parameters ***
- Name: 00009.MTS.m4v
- Container: M4V - QuickTime
- Size: 523.24 MB
- Duration: 2mn 53s
- Bitrate: 24.2 Mbps

*** Video Track Parameters ***
- Format: H.264/MPEG-4 AVC
- Bitrate: Max.: 26.0 Mbps / Average: 23.9 Mbps / Min.: Undefined
- Frame rate (fps): Max.: 59.970 / Average: 59.940 / Min.: 59.910
- Encoding profile: High@L4.2
- Image size: 1920*1080
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: Undefined
- Display Aspect Ratio: 16:9
- Interlacing: Progressive

*** First Audio Track Parameters ***
- Format: AC3-A52
- Bitrate: 256 Kbps
- Resolution: 16 bits
- Rate: 48.0 KHz
- Channel(s): 2 (stereo)
- Position: Front: L R
Click to expand...


As a result of this new information, t seems the issue is with converting the file into the .mov format......
 
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