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View Full Version : Finally, some proof voter fraud actually happens!


mcrain
Jan 30, 2012, 02:36 PM
So, as a liberal, I have suspected that the GOP's efforts to pass voter ID laws were designed to disenfranchise poor and minority voters and NOT because of voter fraud, but I may have been wrong. There appears to be voter fraud happening, and we need to find a way to deal with it! (No, I'm not talking about Mitt Romney's claim to live in his son's unfinished basement so he could vote for Scott Brown.)

Indiana's top elections official is himself facing allegations of voter fraud.

Secretary of State Charlie White, a Republican, is in the unusual position of being the person entrusted to protect the integrity of the ballot box, while at the same time fighting seven felony charges involving allegations he registered to vote at his ex-wife's house and served as a local councilman when he actually lived outside the district.

Jury selection in White's trial is set to begin this morning at the Hamilton County Superior Courthouse, in Noblesville, Ind.

"We've always abided by the law," White told Fox News in an interview last November. Through a spokesman, he declined another interview on the eve of the trial.

White has claimed he spent four nights a week living at the home of his ex-wife, Nicole Mills, because his then-fiancee, and now wife, Michelle Quigley White, did not want them to live together until they were married. Mills' house was inside the Fishers Town Council district that White represented at the time, but he had purchased a condo outside of his district lines to live with his second wife.

White was indicted in March, accused of fraud, perjury, theft, voting in the wrong precinct, submitting a false voter registration change of address and casting a "false, fictitious or fraudulent ballot."

"Charlie White registered to vote at a place he didn't live. That was in contravention of the law," said Karen Celestino-Horseman, a lawyer for the Indiana State Democratic Party, which brought the allegations against White at the Indiana Recount Commission. "It was not his residence."

FoxNews (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/30/indiana-secretary-states-voter-fraud-trial-starts/#ixzz1kyZEmz2r)

SwiftLives
Jan 30, 2012, 03:22 PM
I'm starting to think Democrats should take up the whole voter fraud issue (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/01/election_law_experts_say_james_okeefe_accomplices_could_face_charges_over_voter_fraud_stunt.php).



It was one of the few — if not the only — coordinated efforts to attempt in-person voter fraud, and it was pulled off by affiliates of conservative activist James O’Keefe at polling places in New Hampshire Tuesday night. All of it part of an attempt to prove the need for voter ID laws that voting rights experts say have a unfair impact on minority voters.

Now election law experts tell TPM that O’Keefe’s allies could face criminal charges on both the federal and state level for procuring ballots under false names, and that his undercover sting doesn’t demonstrate a need for voter ID laws at all.

Federal law bans not only the casting of, but the “procurement” of ballots “that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held.”

via Talking Points Memo (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/01/election_law_experts_say_james_okeefe_accomplices_could_face_charges_over_voter_fraud_stunt.php)


(Emphasis mine)

Thomas Veil
Feb 4, 2012, 10:02 AM
Guilty. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/closing-arguments-under-way-in-indiana-state-election-chiefs-voter-fraud-trial/2012/02/03/gIQAQLwvmQ_story.html)

INDIANAPOLIS — Indiana’s top elections official could lose his job and his freedom after jurors convicted him of multiple voter fraud-related charges on Saturday, leaving in flux the fate of one of the state’s most powerful positions.

Republican Secretary of State Charlie White has held on to his office for more than a year despite being accused of lying about his address on voter registration forms.

A Hamilton County jury found White guilty of six of seven felony charges, including false registration, voting in another precinct, submitting a false ballot, theft and two counts of perjury. He was acquitted on one fraud charge.

White expressed no outward emotion as the verdict was read, and later said outside the courtroom: “’I’m disappointed for my family and the people who supported me.”

It wasn’t immediately clear what would happen to White’s elected office. He has resisted calls to resign from Democrats and Republicans, including Gov. Mitch Daniels, but state law bars anyone convicted of a felony from remaining in office.

White’s attorney, Carl Brizzi, said he will ask the judge to reduce the charges to misdemeanors because his client has no criminal background and has a long record of public service.

Daniels announced Saturday he had appointed White’s chief deputy, Jerry Bonnet, as interim secretary of state.

“I have chosen not to make a permanent appointment today out of respect for the judge’s authority to lessen the verdict to a misdemeanor and reinstate the elected office holder,” Daniels said in a statement. “If the felony convictions are not altered, I anticipate making a permanent appointment quickly.”

thewitt
Feb 4, 2012, 12:16 PM
Prove the system is broken and go to jail... Nice.

Voter fraud is rampant. It's a travesty. Dead men vote in Maine. No I'd required.

Walk in, read a name upside down on the paper in front of you on the desk that doesn't have a line thru it already, and vote...

Or even better, bring in any piece of mail with your name on it and a town address, register right there and vote.

Vote early. Vote often...

Rodimus Prime
Feb 4, 2012, 12:36 PM
Notice something. It is the GOP doing the fraud yet all the voter id laws they are passing is to target and make it harder for typical dem voters from voting.

Tomorrow
Feb 4, 2012, 12:39 PM
I always thought it was bizarre - you can register to vote without an ID, and you can show up to vote without an ID. You don't even have to prove you're of legal voting age.

I mean, I can't even buy cold medicine without them swiping my driver's license. I don't think having some kind of ID required to register and to vote is so hard.

imahawki
Feb 4, 2012, 12:41 PM
NO ONE should be against voter ID laws that are well written. It is just as disenfranchising when someone not constitutionally allowed to vote (or a dead person) votes and cancels out valid person's vote. The bottom line is that yes, the vast majority of illegitimate votes are cast for democrats. I can understand why they'll say anything and manipulate any emotion to try and stop what should be a no-brainer system of protecting LEGITIMATE votes.

dime21
Feb 4, 2012, 07:25 PM
I'm starting to think Democrats should take up the whole voter fraud issue (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/01/election_law_experts_say_james_okeefe_accomplices_could_face_charges_over_voter_fraud_stunt.php).



(Emphasis mine)

And that's why I like this Okeefe fellow. He's not afraid to take risks to show the rest of us how broken the system is. Give that man a medal.

skunk
Feb 4, 2012, 07:51 PM
The bottom line is that yes, the vast majority of illegitimate votes are cast for democrats.Link please.

----------

And that's why I like this Okeefe fellow. He's not afraid to take risks to show the rest of us how broken the system is.Since he was caught, presumably he has proved nothing at all.

Rodimus Prime
Feb 4, 2012, 08:47 PM
NO ONE should be against voter ID laws that are well written. It is just as disenfranchising when someone not constitutionally allowed to vote (or a dead person) votes and cancels out valid person's vote. The bottom line is that yes, the vast majority of illegitimate votes are cast for democrats. I can understand why they'll say anything and manipulate any emotion to try and stop what should be a no-brainer system of protecting LEGITIMATE votes.

Proof please.

As I pointed out GOP has been the ones caught multiple times in doing voter fraud. The laws they right are designed to target typical Dem voters.

Look at Texas law that the DOJ said no to. Or the Iowa law.

Texas law your voter registrations must match what is on your Drivers Licences or you can not vote.
That effects renters, and college students the most. Renters in the fact that it cost money and time to change your DL address every time you move and a lot more trouble than it is often times worth.
College students often times move their registrations to where their college is because that is where they spend 9 months out of the year but leave their permit address at home for insurance reasons and again no worth updating it every year. This would require them doing absentee voting which I can tell you from experiences is a huge pain in the rear to do and a fair amount of paper work to do. Plus you run the risk of your ballet being tossed out for a BS reason for example signatures do not match. Tends to be the ballets that OMG vote for the non party in charge. Here it happens to be vote Dem risk it happening.

If you notices the groups effect happen to be the group most likely to vote democrat. The Texas law it is pretty clear that is the group they are targeting.
The voter ID laws if you look at them are written to make it harder for dems to vote not easier.

MorphingDragon
Feb 4, 2012, 09:00 PM
Proof please.

As I pointed out GOP has been the ones caught multiple times in doing voter fraud. The laws they right are designed to target typical Dem voters.

Look at Texas law that the DOJ said no to. Or the Iowa law.

Texas law your voter registrations must match what is on your Drivers Licences or you can not vote.
That effects renters, and college students the most. Renters in the fact that it cost money and time to change your DL address every time you move and a lot more trouble than it is often times worth.
College students often times move their registrations to where their college is because that is where they spend 9 months out of the year but leave their permit address at home for insurance reasons and again no worth updating it every year. This would require them doing absentee voting which I can tell you from experiences is a huge pain in the rear to do and a fair amount of paper work to do. Plus you run the risk of your ballet being tossed out for a BS reason for example signatures do not match. Tends to be the ballets that OMG vote for the non party in charge. Here it happens to be vote Dem risk it happening.

If you notices the groups effect happen to be the group most likely to vote democrat. The Texas law it is pretty clear that is the group they are targeting.
The voter ID laws if you look at them are written to make it harder for dems to vote not easier.

In New Zealand you just need to turn up with some ID and proof of address (sometimes not even that) and you can change whatever in most businesses and government departments. Its great.

imahawki
Feb 4, 2012, 09:02 PM
You can do your own research. Any thing I post will be dismissed as being from the wrong source, or a right wing rag. This isn't my first round in PRSI. The largest blocks (i.e. not isolated cases) of voter fraud are illegal immigrants which overwhelmingly vote democrat since they typically support amnesty and non-enforcement of federal law. THAT is why democrats get their panties in a wad. If they lose the illegal immigrant vote it will be a large problem for them.

thewitt
Feb 4, 2012, 09:30 PM
Since he was caught, presumably he has proved nothing at all.

I believe he self identified as a fraudulent voter, he was not caught.

mrkramer
Feb 4, 2012, 09:46 PM
You can do your own research. Any thing I post will be dismissed as being from the wrong source, or a right wing rag. This isn't my first round in PRSI. The largest blocks (i.e. not isolated cases) of voter fraud are illegal immigrants which overwhelmingly vote democrat since they typically support amnesty and non-enforcement of federal law. THAT is why democrats get their panties in a wad. If they lose the illegal immigrant vote it will be a large problem for them.

If you're going to make claims post your sources, don't ask other people to research them for you. So either give a source, or stop claiming that there is a lot of voter fraud for democrats.

Rodimus Prime
Feb 5, 2012, 01:58 AM
You can do your own research. Any thing I post will be dismissed as being from the wrong source, or a right wing rag. This isn't my first round in PRSI. The largest blocks (i.e. not isolated cases) of voter fraud are illegal immigrants which overwhelmingly vote democrat since they typically support amnesty and non-enforcement of federal law. THAT is why democrats get their panties in a wad. If they lose the illegal immigrant vote it will be a large problem for them.

The fact that you lack a source speaks volumes. Hell the fact that Fake (Fox) news is not even screaming about it should speak volumes about the lack of voter fraud.

Zombie Acorn
Feb 5, 2012, 09:27 AM
We arent doing any credentials checks to vote so I don't see how anyone could possibly be caught.

mrkramer
Feb 5, 2012, 11:37 AM
The fact that you lack a source speaks volumes. Hell the fact that Fake (Fox) news is not even screaming about it should speak volumes about the lack of voter fraud.

I got bored and spent a few seconds on google looking to see what voter fraud has occurred, I'll admit I didn't look past the first page of results, but the only thing I saw that was separate from the situation in the OP was this (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/05/troubles-abound-at-special-las-vegas-caucus/), and guess what it was Republicans again...

Macky-Mac
Feb 5, 2012, 12:55 PM
I got bored and spent a few seconds on google looking to see what voter fraud has occurred, I'll admit I didn't look past the first page of results, but the only thing I saw that was separate from the situation in the OP was this (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/05/troubles-abound-at-special-las-vegas-caucus/), and guess what it was Republicans again...

those naughty republicans!


Troubles abound at special Las Vegas caucus

Angry Ron Paul supporters overtook a special caucus Saturday night for religious voters who honor the Sabbath, prompting long lines, frantic GOP officials and voter fraud complaints....

...Part of the trouble was some Paul supporters told voters they could show up for the late-night caucus at a suburban Jewish private school for whatever reason. But voters could only participate if they signed a declaration affirming that they couldn't vote during the regular morning caucuses because of their faith.

Most supporters signed the declaration without hesitation, after confirming to an Associated Press reporter that they had missed the earlier caucuses for other reasons....

link (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/05/troubles-abound-at-special-las-vegas-caucus/)

imahawki
Feb 5, 2012, 08:52 PM
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2011/11/post_17.php

http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/

thewitt
Feb 5, 2012, 09:03 PM
You guys are not looking very hard.

Acorn and other DNC supporters have had hundreds of their members arrested for voter fraud - and these are only the ones who were caught.

Dead people voting by the thousands in Community Organizer Obama trained Acorn registration drives.

mrkramer
Feb 5, 2012, 09:14 PM
You guys are not looking very hard.

Acorn and other DNC supporters have had hundreds of their members arrested for voter fraud - and these are only the ones who were caught.

Dead people voting by the thousands in Community Organizer Obama trained Acorn registration drives.

Do you have proof that any of the fraudulent registrations done by ACORN had anyone attempt to use them to vote? From everything I've read it seems more like volunteers trying to make it look like they signed more people up to vote than they actually did...

Rodimus Prime
Feb 5, 2012, 09:29 PM
You guys are not looking very hard.

Acorn and other DNC supporters have had hundreds of their members arrested for voter fraud - and these are only the ones who were caught.

Dead people voting by the thousands in Community Organizer Obama trained Acorn registration drives.


You are confusing registration fraud with voter fraud. They are two very different things.

Sydde
Feb 5, 2012, 10:30 PM
You guys are not looking very hard.

Acorn and other DNC supporters have had hundreds of their members arrested for voter fraud - and these are only the ones who were caught.

Dead people voting by the thousands in Community Organizer Obama trained Acorn registration drives.

Then help us out. Show us where to look (being aware that sources like Newsmax or townhall.com might not be treated with respect).

hulugu
Feb 6, 2012, 12:31 AM
I always thought it was bizarre - you can register to vote without an ID, and you can show up to vote without an ID. You don't even have to prove you're of legal voting age.

I mean, I can't even buy cold medicine without them swiping my driver's license. I don't think having some kind of ID required to register and to vote is so hard.

Well, I would argue that we've gone too far in requiring an ID with nearly every transaction and that voting is an outlier is actually a good thing. Most people have some form of ID, but keep in mind that IDs won't protect the voting roles, just as they don't really protect any other system. If you're willing to commit fraud by having individuals go to polling places, you can also produce hundreds of fake IDs.

You guys are not looking very hard.

Acorn and other DNC supporters have had hundreds of their members arrested for voter fraud - and these are only the ones who were caught.

ACORN's system was flawed, but keep in mind that it was ACORN and not some outside investigation, that brought this to light. Also, while ACORN risked significant fraud in voter registration, there is no evidence that this led to voting fraud.

Even if you register Mickey Mouse as a voter, someone still has to arrive and vote as Mickey the Mouse.

Dead people voting by the thousands in Community Organizer Obama trained Acorn registration drives.

This is a larger problem and, as evidenced by the New Hampshire presidential primary, exists in Republican circles as well.

The larger question is how to you design a voter registration system to assures the largest number of voters, without racial, class, or locality biases while protecting the voting records.

I still think that Republicans are only interested in protecting voter fraud because of the belief that illegal immigrants might vote, but are ignoring a much more significant and onerous problem, the wide use of poorly-designed and managed voting machines. These machines have such significant design flaws that a single person could create thousands of votes at their whim, a much easier and harder to identify problem than creating the same number of fake IDs and sending in an army of second and tertiary voters.

Voting fraud is a problem, but is a bipartisan problem.

mobilehaathi
Feb 6, 2012, 09:54 AM
I still think that Republicans are only interested in protecting voter fraud because of the belief that illegal immigrants might vote

I still think that Republicans are only concerned with voter fraud insofar as their solutions happen to disenfranchise segments of the population that vote against them. But I'm pretty cynical. ;)

hulugu
Feb 7, 2012, 12:05 AM
I still think that Republicans are only concerned with voter fraud insofar as their solutions happen to disenfranchise segments of the population that vote against them. But I'm pretty cynical. ;)

I don't think that's the concern of lay Republicans (though I'm sure some RNC leaders are fully aware that such a strategy could be beneficial).

The larger story I think is more complex. Some Republicans believe in some kind of poll tax, they want voting to be more difficult and they don't care that it might affects minorities. Some Republicans are genuinely worried about fraud. Others are worried about that somehow, somebody is getting one over on them and as such they're willing to create roadblocks to stop such an event from occurring.

But, they're all wrong. Voting fraud is an issue, but it's a problem by registration officials and voting machines. And, that won't be solved with an ID requirement.

SwiftLives
Feb 7, 2012, 08:27 PM
Here in South Carolina, voter fraud is a real issue. The DMV stated that out of 37,000 deceased people on the voter registration rolls, 953 ballots using those names were cast.

Except no. So far, it seems that the DMV has found no systemic evidence of any fraud whatsoever. It's mostly been clerical errors.

The State Election Commission is doing a name by name review, and a spokesman told NPR this week that, after looking through about a quarter of the names, they have yet to find any evidence that "something funny is going on." The results of this initial review — which involves the 2010 elections — are expected to be released later this week or next week.

And yet, SC is spending our taxpayer money to sue the Justice Department in order to get the Voter ID law reinstated.

[Source: NPR (http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/02/07/146546046/in-south-carolina-dead-voter-fraud-doesnt-live-up-to-suspicions?ft=1&f=1001)]