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MacRumors
Feb 8, 2012, 07:47 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/08/the-ipad-3s-a6-processor-to-be-dual-core/)


TheVerge's (http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/8/2785486/ipad-3-back-photo-appears-a6-retina-display) Joshua Topolsky summarizes the iPad 3 casing (http://www.front.macrumors.com/2012/02/08/photo-of-claimed-ipad-3-rear-shell-suggests-mostly-minor-changes-hints-at-larger-battery/) findings reported earlier today, but also adds his own sources regarding some details of the iPad 3.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/02/ipad_2_ipad_3_rear_shell.jpg


Image from RepairLabs (https://www.fix-iphones.com/blog/apple/exclusive-ipad-3-back-housing/)
As expected, the iPad 3 will reportedly include a 2048x1536 Retina Display, be nearly identical physically, and use the A6 processor. The A6 processor, however, is claimed to have a dual-core chip, not a quad-core one, at least according to his sources: What is surprising, however, is that our sources say that the A6 will not be a quad-core chip, but will remain dual-core. We've previously had heard that the device would have a quad-core CPU as well as an LTE cell radio on-board, but at least part of that story wasn't accurate.Previous rumors for the iPad 3 have claimed that the A6 processor would include a Quad-Core (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/13/ipad-3-with-lte-quad-core-processor-and-retina-display-set-for-march-launch/) processor. iOS 5.1 also (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/06/evidence-of-quad-core-chips-shows-up-in-ios-5-1-betas/) showed some early evidence of code-support for quad-core processing.

While a dual-core A6 is certainly possible, Topolsky's iOS device sources haven't had the greatest track record. In early 2011 (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/01/14/ipad-2-with-high-resolution-screen-and-sd-card-slot-iphone-5-with-a5-processor/), his sources claimed that the iPad 2 would include a "super high resolution display" as well as an SD card slot, and a "completely redesigned" iPhone 5 to come in summer 2011. Topolsky did backtrack (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/24/ipad-2-a5-512mb-ram-and-ios-5-revealed-next-week/) on those predictions, but not until the week before the iPad 2's launch.

Topolsky was also the original source (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/22/iphone-5-details-3-7-inch-screen-home-button-with-gesture-area/) of the the tapered iPhone 5 design and elongated home button. While we do believe that design was based in reality (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/05/about-that-tapered-iphone-5-design/), it's hard to ignore that it never came to be.

Article Link: The iPad 3's A6 Processor to be Dual-Core? (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/08/the-ipad-3s-a6-processor-to-be-dual-core/)



Kentochan
Feb 8, 2012, 07:51 PM
Noooooo.... I want quad core....

firestarter
Feb 8, 2012, 07:52 PM
I'd rather see two faster cores than four slower cores.

On a device with a single-app-at-a-time UI, just how many cores can the OS put to work? Even OSX on the desktop has trouble finding work for a lot of cores to do most of the time (outside of very specialist tasks like video compression).

CPU design will always be a compromise, and it may be that the compromises needed to get to four cores aren't borne out by a worthwhile increase in speed. Are that many cores used on Android, or is it mainly a marketing gimmic?

Epic Xbox Revie
Feb 8, 2012, 07:53 PM
"No one will buy it if there's no quad-cores"

But seriously. Whatever Apple has will be a huge leap forward, as is usual. :apple:

goMac
Feb 8, 2012, 07:54 PM
Quad cores are pretty likely on the retina versions. Got to bump the CPU power by 4x to match the resolution gain well, and you can't do that all in mhz.

Los
Feb 8, 2012, 07:56 PM
I'd rather see two faster cores than four slower cores.

On a device with a single-app-at-a-time UI, just how many cores can the OS put to work? Even OSX on the desktop has trouble finding work for a lot of cores to do most of the time (outside of very specialist tasks like video compression).

CPU design will always be a compromise, and it may be that the compromises needed to get to four cores aren't borne out by a worthwhile increase in speed. Are that many cores used on Android, or is it mainly a marketing gimmic?

This definitely. The iPad has enough space to put two fast Dual Core chips. Just wonder if it's actually possible.

nagromme
Feb 8, 2012, 08:01 PM
I want quad-core. As a tech nerd, I care about specs and bullet lists!

As a user, I want performance and results. I won’t care much how it’s achieved. Double the cores does NOT double performance. There are diminishing returns. Number of cores is one tiny slice of the performance equation. The design of each core, and of the OS, are far more important speed factors. They just don’t sound as nice for bragging to the other kids!

Not that I believe any rumors at this point anyway... but if dual-core means lower battery drain or lower cost, or if the extra cores just don’t add that much real-world performance gain, and if the iPad 3 and iOS are able to deliver great performance from two cores, I will be happy. If I can have all that AND enjoy the sound of the phrase “quad core,” that will be nice too! :)

GenesisST
Feb 8, 2012, 08:04 PM
Meh... It's still going to be the top of the line ipad even if devs will need some time to figure out what to do with the added power (even at 2 cores, if that's the case). We will still enjoy them.

The same can be told of XBOX/PS3 compared to recent gaming rigs. The thing is that I still enjoy the games on these "old" boxes.

Macopotamus
Feb 8, 2012, 08:08 PM
SD card slots, teardrop iPhone 5, iPad 3 what now? uh huh...


:rolleyes:

firestarter
Feb 8, 2012, 08:10 PM
This definitely. The iPad has enough space to put two fast Dual Core chips. Just wonder if it's actually possible.

Except you're completely disagreeing with me?!?

phobium
Feb 8, 2012, 08:17 PM
Quad cores are pretty likely on the retina versions. Got to bump the CPU power by 4x to match the resolution gain well, and you can't do that all in mhz.

This is one of the most uninformed posts I have ever read....

gorskiegangsta
Feb 8, 2012, 08:19 PM
That may actually be a good thing.

There are only two sensible options for Apple to seriously bump the CPU processing power in the next gen chip: either the quad-core chip based on Cortex A9 or a dual-core chip based on Cortex A15. From what the makers have been promising, the dual-core Cortex A15 would actually be more powerful than the quad-core Cortex A9.

mentaluproar
Feb 8, 2012, 08:21 PM
Please, no hyper threading. Please god, no.

chrmjenkins
Feb 8, 2012, 08:25 PM
Quad cores are pretty likely on the retina versions. Got to bump the CPU power by 4x to match the resolution gain well, and you can't do that all in mhz.

CPU has a much, much smaller role in driving the display compared to the GPU. PC games have only recently strongly favored quad core CPUs, and iPad tasks are nowhere near that.

Think of the CPU as the architect and the GPU as the builders. It takes a lot less time and effort to design than it does to build.


Please, no hyper threading. Please god, no.

Hyper threading is a trademarked Intel implementation of simultaneous multi-threading. They are the only ones who do it to the point where you have extra cores appearing to the OS. No one else can use intel's patented, trademarked method.

However, multiple issue CPUs with multiple data paths are a staple of modern CPUs and a good thing.

jont-fu
Feb 8, 2012, 08:28 PM
If the A6 uses ARM Cortex A15 architecture, it will be significantly faster than the A5 even with the same clock speed and number of cores.

Also, the retina display doesn't require more cpu power, maybe just more GPU cores and memory.

The most interesting new ARM technology is combining Cortex A7 and A15 cores on the same chip and transparently switching between them. The Cortex A7 is very energy efficient and the Cortex A15 is very powerful, so that would bring both performance and better battery life. I'm just not sure if this architecture can be implemented yet.

LGN
Feb 8, 2012, 08:33 PM
Um... Isn't the A5 dual core???

nickpro
Feb 8, 2012, 08:37 PM
you gotta remember one of Apple's fundamental rules - it will not include a feature in a new product that will too severely compromise one of its core features in the existing product.

if a quad-core, like 4G connectivity for the iPhone 4S, will too severely impact battery life i can definitely see them going with a beefed up dual-core setup.

daneoni
Feb 8, 2012, 08:37 PM
No need to rush to Quad Core yet especially if LTE will come into play. Makes sense if the A6+LTE will be going into iPhone 6 as well. Higher clocked Dual Cores now then Quads in 2013 using A15.

chrmjenkins
Feb 8, 2012, 08:38 PM
If the A6 uses ARM Cortex A15 architecture, it will be significantly faster than the A5 even with the same clock speed and number of cores.

Also, the retina display doesn't require more cpu power, maybe just more GPU cores and memory.

The most interesting new ARM technology is combining Cortex A7 and A15 cores on the same chip and transparently switching between them. The Cortex A7 is very energy efficient and the Cortex A15 is very powerful, so that would bring both performance and better battery life. I'm just not sure if this architecture can be implemented yet.

A15 yes (but very aggressive). A7, no. 2014 for that.

Chazn
Feb 8, 2012, 08:41 PM
A Dual core? Oh no!

I am seriously worried that the dual cores won't pack enough juice to handle the retina display's higher resolution games.

My retina displayed iPhone 4 can't handle Modern Combat 3 or even Black Ops zombies because Apple just used the same old GPU in the 3GS to power twice as many pixels!*

Not happy.

MythicFrost
Feb 8, 2012, 08:58 PM
I find it very hard to believe this. Apple's been competing well against the competition, and I'd hate to see them pull out now.

If this turns out to be true, I doubt we'll be seeing a Cortex A15 based processor either. That means a dual-core Cortex A9 processor just like the A5, and it won't be clocked much higher.

That would be very disappointing to say the least, considering a quad-core is required for real next generation games. Glowball for Tegra 3 is a good example of why we need it.
A Dual core? Oh no!

I am seriously worried that the dual cores won't pack enough juice to handle the retina display's higher resolution games.

My retina displayed iPhone 4 can't handle Modern Combat 3 or even Black Ops zombies because Apple just used the same old GPU in the 3GS to power twice as many pixels!*

Not happy.
The CPU won't really be tasked by the higher resolution, it's mostly going to be the GPU.

It's actually twice the resolution, which is four times the pixels.

Rodimus Prime
Feb 8, 2012, 09:11 PM
A Dual core? Oh no!

I am seriously worried that the dual cores won't pack enough juice to handle the retina display's higher resolution games.

My retina displayed iPhone 4 can't handle Modern Combat 3 or even Black Ops zombies because Apple just used the same old GPU in the 3GS to power twice as many pixels!*

Not happy.

You are getting bought into the core myth much like the mhz myth of the past.
As others point out the CPU does not play as large of a role in driving the screen as the gpu does.

Sadly the marketers got people believing more cores is better like higher clock rate and that is not always the case.

Menel
Feb 8, 2012, 09:12 PM
I find it very hard to believe this. Apple's been competing well against the competition, and I'd hate to see them pull out now.

If this turns out to be true, I doubt we'll be seeing a Cortex A15 based processor either. That means a dual-core Cortex A9 processor just like the A5, and it won't be clocked much higher.

That would be very disappointing to say the least, considering a quad-core is required for real next generation games. Glowball for Tegra 3 is a good example of why we need it.

The CPU won't really be tasked by the higher resolution, it's mostly going to be the GPU.

It's actually twice the resolution, which is four times the pixels.

Apple has been competing well while ignoring LTE, 4-7" form factor, removable battery, microSD expansion, file system, and more.

They will do what makes sense.

I have expected for months A6 might be a dual A15 setup.

daneoni
Feb 8, 2012, 09:19 PM
A Dual core? Oh no!

I am seriously worried that the dual cores won't pack enough juice to handle the retina display's higher resolution games.

My retina displayed iPhone 4 can't handle Modern Combat 3 or even Black Ops zombies because Apple just used the same old GPU in the 3GS to power twice as many pixels!*

Not happy.

I think thats less the A4's fault and more the 535's. I'd wager things are much better when the 543 comes to play.

pmz
Feb 8, 2012, 09:22 PM
If the A6 is a 2 Ghz dual core processor, that would be better than a 1 Ghz quad core, for what the iPad does.. Yes it would.

longofest
Feb 8, 2012, 09:29 PM
The only way an "A6" comes out and stays dual-core is if it is based on Cortex-A15. However, no one seems to be ready to ship A15-based devices until late 2012 (OMAP 5 has been previewed, but nothing brewing yet, and Tegra 4 won't come until later this year). I highly doubt Apple can beat everyone by that far of a margin.

Much more likely that the "A6" will be a quad-core Cortex-A9 variant. It may not even be called "A6" - no hard rumor has shown that it will be called the A6 - everyone has just assumed (http://www.techperfect.net/2012/02/apples-next-a-series-processor-to-be-quad-core-cortex-a9/).

----------

Please, no hyper threading. Please god, no.

who mentioned hyper threading?

Stridder44
Feb 8, 2012, 09:29 PM
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I hope this rumor is false. There's no real reason to stick with two core chips anymore.

Nielsenius
Feb 8, 2012, 09:43 PM
All I'm gonna say is that if you can make a tablet with a 4-core processor, then how come my laptop isn't 8-core and my desktop 16-core?

Yamcha
Feb 8, 2012, 09:51 PM
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Awesome is all I can say.. Retina display on an iPad will be great.. I don't mind a Dual Core processor either.. Should be more the. Sufficent and If it's A6 I assume it'll be faster the the A5.. Which is still good

Saladinos
Feb 8, 2012, 09:52 PM
If they are indeed using a dual-core A15, I'd expect a >2x performance boost from the architecture change alone.

Samsung and NVidia also seem to be going the 2x A15 route for their new tablet platforms (Exynos & Tegra), so I'd also go with that for Apple.

They may be using IMG's new Rogue GPU architecture for some solid gains there (hard to tell, would be a stretch). More GPU cores could be good for OpenCL if you're really pressed for compute resources (should be coming with iOS6 -- it's a private framework in iOS5).

chrmjenkins
Feb 8, 2012, 09:55 PM
The only way an "A6" comes out and stays dual-core is if it is based on Cortex-A15. However, no one seems to be ready to ship A15-based devices until late 2012 (OMAP 5 has been previewed, but nothing brewing yet, and Tegra 4 won't come until later this year). I highly doubt Apple can beat everyone by that far of a margin.

Much more likely that the "A6" will be a quad-core Cortex-A9 variant. It may not even be called "A6" - no hard rumor has shown that it will be called the A6 - everyone has just assumed (http://www.techperfect.net/2012/02/apples-next-a-series-processor-to-be-quad-core-cortex-a9/).

----------



who mentioned hyper threading?

Exynos 5250 is already sampling, will ship Q2 if it remains on schedule. It features two A15 cores,

William Gates
Feb 8, 2012, 10:00 PM
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Damn Arn. Coming down pretty harsh on Topolsky, eh?

jayhawk11
Feb 8, 2012, 10:05 PM
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Damn Arn. Coming down pretty harsh on Topolsky, eh?

Topolsky deserves it. Clearly his sources suck. It's not like Arn is hating on him for no reason.

MythicFrost
Feb 8, 2012, 10:07 PM
Apple has been competing well while ignoring LTE, 4-7" form factor, removable battery, microSD expansion, file system, and more.

They will do what makes sense.

I have expected for months A6 might be a dual A15 setup.
That's right, but a quad-core makes a lot of sense. The benefits are quite substantial for games, and touting a quad-core would be a major selling point. I too suspected a dual-core A15 may be a possibility, but I truly hope it's a quad-core A15 -- that'd put them ahead of the competition by quite a bit, spec-wise. (And at the very least, a quad-core A9 and match the competition.)

gorskiegangsta
Feb 8, 2012, 10:10 PM
The only way an "A6" comes out and stays dual-core is if it is based on Cortex-A15. However, no one seems to be ready to ship A15-based devices until late 2012 (OMAP 5 has been previewed, but nothing brewing yet, and Tegra 4 won't come until later this year). I highly doubt Apple can beat everyone by that far of a margin.

Much more likely that the "A6" will be a quad-core Cortex-A9 variant. It may not even be called "A6" - no hard rumor has shown that it will be called the A6 - everyone has just assumed (http://www.techperfect.net/2012/02/apples-next-a-series-processor-to-be-quad-core-cortex-a9/).[COLOR="#808080"]

Samsung was rumored to be introducing next-gen Galaxy Tab with a dual-core Cortex A15 based Exynos chip at MWC (http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2753569/samsungs-next-gen-galaxy-tab-headed-to-mwc-with-2ghz-processor-2560-x) later this month. It is not unlikely that Apple might get first hand at the chip if they are aggressive enough.
Even if Apple passes on updating the CPU cores for the next iPad, I highly doubt they'll also neglect the graphics, especially if the "retina" display makes its way to the iPad.

NT1440
Feb 8, 2012, 10:11 PM
You guys are funny. No one has noticed that iOS basically keeps on par (if not outperforms) most other mobile phone platforms while having roughly half the resources in specs like RAM?

Don't let the core count become the new MHz myth. It doesn't matter how much horsepower you have if the tranny can't get the power to the wheels ;)

Navdakilla
Feb 8, 2012, 10:35 PM
Uh oh ... This isn't good

arn
Feb 8, 2012, 10:35 PM
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Damn Arn. Coming down pretty harsh on Topolsky, eh?

Wasn't trying to be harsh.

This was harsh:

http://daringfireball.net/2011/02/eleventh_hour
If I had sources who fed me a load of ********* a month ago, I’d be apologizing to my readers, not doubling down on those sources as “dead right”.

chrmjenkins
Feb 8, 2012, 10:41 PM
Topolsky deserves it. Clearly his sources suck. It's not like Arn is hating on him for no reason.

Toplosky has one of the best records in the blogosphere. Only guy I can think of with a better record is Gruber, and be bets/predicts less.

That's right, but a quad-core makes a lot of sense. The benefits are quite substantial for games, and touting a quad-core would be a major selling point. I too suspected a dual-core A15 may be a possibility, but I truly hope it's a quad-core A15 -- that'd put them ahead of the competition by quite a bit, spec-wise. (And at the very least, a quad-core A9 and match the competition.)

No one has a quad core A15 on the radar until Tegra 4. Super unlikely. Benefit to games from quad core isn't that big yet, especially not for mobile games.

You guys are funny. No one has noticed that iOS basically keeps on par (if not outperforms) most other mobile phone platforms while having roughly half the resources in specs like RAM?

Don't let the core count become the new MHz myth. It doesn't matter how much horsepower you have if the tranny can't get the power to the wheels ;)

Mobile platforms are not about horsepower. They are about feature set and android is ahead of iOS. How efficiently it performs the function matters, but who cares how little memory mobile safari uses when what they really want are widgets?

smulji
Feb 8, 2012, 11:01 PM
Toplosky has one of the best records in the blogosphere. Only guy I can think of with a better record is Gruber, and be bets/predicts less.



No one has a quad core A15 on the radar until Tegra 4. Super unlikely. Benefit to games from quad core isn't that big yet, especially not for mobile games.



Mobile platforms are not about horsepower. They are about feature set and android is ahead of iOS. How efficiently it performs the function matters, but who cares how little memory mobile safari uses when what they really want are widgets?

"Toplosky has one of the best records in the blogosphere. Only guy I can think of with a better record is Gruber, and be bets/predicts less."

I don't agree. When it comes to Apple rumors, Jim Darlrymple from The Loop Insight has, by far, the best track record for predicting Apple rumors. After him comes the Wall Street Journal, followed by Gruber.

delToros
Feb 8, 2012, 11:07 PM
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Make sense. Cameras, retina, new SoC. it is already huge update. 2013 ipad will have minor update with quad-core cpu. It makes a lot of sence.

chrmjenkins
Feb 8, 2012, 11:09 PM
"Toplosky has one of the best records in the blogosphere. Only guy I can think of with a better record is Gruber, and be bets/predicts less."

I don't agree. When it comes to Apple rumors, Jim Darlrymple from The Loop Insight has, by far, the best track record for predicting Apple rumors. After him comes the Wall Street Journal, followed by Gruber.

Wall street journal isn't a blog (I specified blogs). I've never even heard of Jim until just now. You would think I would have heard of him if he is right often. And there is a distinct difference between predictions and rumors/sources. Can you clarify which he is so good at? Anyone can make predictions. Analysts often do and are entertaining in how wrong they are.

cyberakuma
Feb 8, 2012, 11:10 PM
A Dual core? Oh no!

I am seriously worried that the dual cores won't pack enough juice to handle the retina display's higher resolution games.

My retina displayed iPhone 4 can't handle Modern Combat 3 or even Black Ops zombies because Apple just used the same old GPU in the 3GS to power twice as many pixels!*

Not happy.

The number of cores is meaningless in reality. Who is to say that a quad core chip would just run at half the clock frequency of the dual-core one? While it is not likely to be that severe of a difference, it is common for variants of a chip with more cores to have a lower top frequency. For applications (games) which do not use more than two cores, this would result in less CPU total than a comparable dual-core chip.

The real reason to add more cores for a mobile device is to reduce the power usage of each core, and to have logic to turn off all power to cores not in use.

Also, the iPhone 4 had a higher end GPU (543 vs 535) with multiple cores. The reality is that a retina display would require 4x the pixels to get to screen, which would mean you need 4x the pixel rate, more memory for the larger textures and frame buffers, more GPU cores to pump shaders through, and a faster memory bus to load data into the graphics hardware. Depending on the engine, you will likely have more polygons as well (due to adaptive algorithms or just more detailed models for use on retina models)

My speculation? I would anticipate the 554 being in an A6, with either 4 or 8 GPU cores. I would anticipate an A9, possibly with quad cores but in that case without a step in per-core processing power. I don't think the timelines mesh up for the A6 containing either the 6-series GPUs or the A15 based on how long I think it would take to finalize the design, ramp up production and be ready with launch weekend inventory.

chrmjenkins
Feb 8, 2012, 11:21 PM
My speculation? I would anticipate the 554 being in an A6, with either 4 or 8 GPU cores. I would anticipate an A9, possibly with quad cores but in that case without a step in per-core processing power. I don't think the timelines mesh up for the A6 containing either the 6-series GPUs or the A15 based on how long I think it would take to finalize the design, ramp up production and be ready with launch weekend inventory.

The 554 is nothing but a GPU whose cores are essentially two 544 cores in one. And the 544 is nothing but a 543 core with extra graphics API support iOS doesn't need. It's also highly unlikely that their architecture will exceed 4 GPU cores as that would cost a lot of silicon and power. Not even the PS Vita, a dedicated gaming handheld, has more than 4 GPU cores, and it uses the 543 as well.

applefanDrew
Feb 8, 2012, 11:47 PM
Wall street journal isn't a blog (I specified blogs). I've never even heard of Jim until just now. You would think I would have heard of him if he is right often. And there is a distinct difference between predictions and rumors/sources. Can you clarify which he is so good at? Anyone can make predictions. Analysts often do and are entertaining in how wrong they are.

Gruber says Dalrymple's sources are GOLD. So he's good at everything.

Loyalty4Life
Feb 8, 2012, 11:52 PM
The sky is falling!!! :eek:

DeathChill
Feb 8, 2012, 11:52 PM
Wall street journal isn't a blog (I specified blogs). I've never even heard of Jim until just now. You would think I would have heard of him if he is right often. And there is a distinct difference between predictions and rumors/sources. Can you clarify which he is so good at? Anyone can make predictions. Analysts often do nd are entertaining in how wrong they are.

Jim is pretty much Apple's method to confirm/deny information. He is quoted on any rumor he comments on because he is correct. John Gruber also specifically says Jim's contacts and information are pure gold.

SockRolid
Feb 8, 2012, 11:57 PM
Apple just might be planning to do this:

Dual core A6: iPhone, iPad, iPod touch

Quad core A6: MacBook Air

Simple, no?

chrmjenkins
Feb 8, 2012, 11:58 PM
Gruber says Dalrymple's sources are GOLD. So he's good at everything.

Jim is pretty much Apple's method to confirm/deny information. He is quoted on any rumor he comments on because he is correct. John Gruber also specifically says Jim's contacts and information are pure gold.

The funny thing is that I tried to google search to verify and the top hit is a tweet where Gruber jokes that he is wrong. I'll have to pay closer attention in the future. However, the pure gold comment was in reference to no new hardware at WWDC 2011, which was widely expected and not a surprise.


Apple just might be planning to do this:

Dual core A6: iPhone, iPad, iPod touch

Quad core A6: MacBook Air

Simple, no?

Tim Cook commented directly on that and said no. The Air will stay intel and the iPad will gain more productivity software to close the gap.

Amazing Iceman
Feb 9, 2012, 12:27 AM
If the A6 is a 2 Ghz dual core processor, that would be better than a 1 Ghz quad core, for what the iPad does.. Yes it would.

That is, if the rest of the components and the bus can run fast enough to benefit from such speed, otherwise it would be like setting up the speed limit for a residential street to 100MPH; it would be chaos...

Let's see what new rumors we get about the A6; there's always a reason for everything. I would also like to know the true specs for the A6.

----------


Tim Cook commented directly on [MBA with Quad-Core A6] that and said no. The Air will stay intel and the iPad will gain more productivity software to close the gap.

Definitely! Switching out of the Intel Platform would be a terrible move for Apple; It would be costly and redundant, as they would need to produce a separate version of OS X for the A6 and subsequent processors. It would require rewriting OS X and every supporting application, adding this platform to Xcode and SDK; basically having to form a new team of developers for each.
And more work for developers, needing to compile and test multiple versions of their applications.

It would be like going back to the Rosetta days, having Rosetta-like issues. :eek:

HiRez
Feb 9, 2012, 12:33 AM
I'll bet it's the GPU that's quad-core (like the Sony Vita) and not the CPU. Probably people got easily confused with that.

jayhawk11
Feb 9, 2012, 12:35 AM
Toplosky has one of the best records in the blogosphere. Only guy I can think of with a better record is Gruber, and be bets/predicts less.

You're joking, right? Gruber and Dalrymple have better records and predict/bet less because they don't report every piece of trash rumor that shows up in their inbox. Topolsky will print stuff that clearly isn't true. He's a good guy, and a great writer, but he is not a good rumor source. His track record around Apple should speak for itself in that regard.

Now, can we all just agree that Jonathan Geller at BGR is the worst at reporting Apple rumors and that Gizmodo in general is a cesspool of humanity?

LECTA
Feb 9, 2012, 12:40 AM
iPad 3...

chrmjenkins
Feb 9, 2012, 12:45 AM
I'll bet it's the GPU that's quad-core (like the Sony Vita) and not the CPU. Probably people got easily confused with that.

The references were clearly to a quad core CPU. However, we have no guarantee that that development chip is the A6.

You're joking, right? Gruber and Dalrymple have better records and predict/bet less because they don't report every piece of trash rumor that shows up in their inbox. Topolsky will print stuff that clearly isn't true. He's a good guy, and a great writer, but he is not a good rumor source. His track record around Apple should speak for itself in that regard.

Now, can we all just agree that Jonathan Geller at BGR is the worst at reporting Apple rumors and that Gizmodo in general is a cesspool of humanity?

Of the rumors that have been reported far in advance that are right, he is often behind them. It is nice to see sure bets close to launch, but it's also fun to see sensible rumors. He was talking about the iPhone 4 before giz got it. It could also be true the iPhone 5 rumor he started could be true this October.

MythicFrost
Feb 9, 2012, 01:39 AM
No one has a quad core A15 on the radar until Tegra 4. Super unlikely. Benefit to games from quad core isn't that big yet, especially not for mobile games.
We all know that Apple doesn't mention what they're doing though, so if there are fabs out there capable of producing 28nm A15's then you'd think Apple would be ready for it.

Actually, I'd say the exact opposite. The benefit from a quad-core is huge, you can do real time physics, dynamic lighting, etc.

Have a look at Tegra 3's Glowball demo, early on in the video he disables two cores to show you how it runs or, doesn't run, I should say: Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3h70wH9FA)

Part 2 is pretty impressive too, showing you an underwater environment as well: Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C30ShWQm5pI)

The SGX543MP2 is better than the Tegra 3's GPU but we need a quad-core processor for better graphics too.

smiddlehurst
Feb 9, 2012, 03:24 AM
Of the rumors that have been reported far in advance that are right, he is often behind them. It is nice to see sure bets close to launch, but it's also fun to see sensible rumors. He was talking about the iPhone 4 before giz got it. It could also be true the iPhone 5 rumor he started could be true this October.

When it comes to iOS rumours Topolsky's recent track record is, frankly, abysmal. Yes, they did show pics of the iPhone 4 before Giz but that's because they published the pictures they were sent of the 'found' iPhone 4 prototype but didn't pay for the device itself. Turned out they'd actually had a pic for months showing the iPhone 4 alongside the leaked iPad but hadn't spotted the device was there!

Far more importantly for this story however his track record when it comes to hardware changes over the last 12 months or so is terrible. The iPad 2 was going to come with a retina display and SD slot(?) until being pulled 'at the last minute' (cobblers). The iPhone 5 was supposed to be a radical redesign with a 3.7" screen and gesture area replacing the home button, a 'fact' he was so sure about he posted to both Engadget and ThisIsMyNext / The Verge. Then there was the iCloud farce when he was convinced (and got VERY aggressive towards readers who disagreed but sadly that also seems to be a common theme with his work) that Apple was going to remove any web tools to access iCloud services (e-mail. calendar etc) when MobileMe ended later this year.

So I'd take anything he publishes with a dumptruck full of salt. Could it be right? Absolutely, of course it could. There's no doubt he has sources all the way through the industry and any particular rumour can be correct. But his track record suggests it's a 50/50 shot at best so I wouldn't treat it as gospel just yet.

Anyway with regards the iPad 3 I'd still be somewhat surprised if you didn't see a quad core A9 and quad core graphics processor tucked away inside, if for no other reason that the A6 SoC will presumably find its way into the iPhone 5 as well and a dual core processor running the flagship phone in the first half of 2013 seems unlikely. Yeah they could always do the A7 for that device but it's hardly an efficient use of their production capabilities to be churning out an A6 JUST for the iPad 3.

ScottishDuck
Feb 9, 2012, 03:58 AM
You guys are funny. No one has noticed that iOS basically keeps on par (if not outperforms) most other mobile phone platforms while having roughly half the resources in specs like RAM?

Don't let the core count become the new MHz myth. It doesn't matter how much horsepower you have if the tranny can't get the power to the wheels ;)

The speed of iOS has been getting progressively poorer over time compared to it's competitors.

It may however just be a temporary hangover due to the clang transition because Lion is also a rather poor performer.

Shorties
Feb 9, 2012, 05:00 AM
That would be very disappointing to say the least, considering a quad-core is required for real next generation games. Glowball for Tegra 3 is a good example of why we need it.

The CPU won't really be tasked by the higher resolution, it's mostly going to be the GPU.

It's actually twice the resolution, which is four times the pixels.

I thought apple's A# archetexture integrated the GPU, is there a separate GPU on iOS devices?

Abazigal
Feb 9, 2012, 05:20 AM
No LTE's just as fine. 4G infrastructure in my country is practically non-existent, and if it does get implemented, will likely be expensive as well. So I don't mind not paying for a feature I will unlikely miss. :p

seong
Feb 9, 2012, 05:24 AM
I thought apple's A# archetexture integrated the GPU, is there a separate GPU on iOS devices?

Meh, I don't think so. I think the CPU/GPU of A5 chips are like Intel's CPU, where an integrated GPU comes with it.

My question to you guys is, which is more beneficial for in-game texture/better fps/be able to drive retina display? Faster dual core, or quad core? I'm no CPU guy, so I have no clue which is suppose to be better.

Lukeyy19
Feb 9, 2012, 05:49 AM
Um... Isn't the A5 dual core???

That's exactly the point, will it stay the same as the A5, or will it be increased to a Quad-Core?

CplBadboy
Feb 9, 2012, 05:55 AM
Would like to see the SD card slot. For me the camera connection adaptor is a little untidy IMO.

MacSince1990
Feb 9, 2012, 06:22 AM
Quad cores are pretty likely on the retina versions. Got to bump the CPU power by 4x to match the resolution gain well, and you can't do that all in mhz.

How can you have been here since 2004 and still be so clueless?

----------

I'll bet it's the GPU that's quad-core (like the Sony Vita) and not the CPU. Probably people got easily confused with that.

....There's no such thing as a "quad core" GPU. GPUs have too many functional units nowadays anyway, and they're ALL already scalar. The closet thing to a "quad core GPU" would have been a GeForce 4 4600 Ti 10 years ago. 4 pixel pipes. But that legacy technology isn't the same as what you see today.

Get a clue..

propynyl
Feb 9, 2012, 06:28 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A406 Safari/7534.48.3)

Yes! This means we WILL have a quad core iPad as Topolsky is NEVER right!

E.Lizardo
Feb 9, 2012, 06:55 AM
Toplosky has one of the best records in the blogosphere. Only guy I can think of with a better record is Gruber, and be bets/predicts less.



No one has a quad core A15 on the radar until Tegra 4. Super unlikely. Benefit to games from quad core isn't that big yet, especially not for mobile games.



Mobile platforms are not about horsepower. They are about feature set and android is ahead of iOS. How efficiently it performs the function matters, but who cares how little memory mobile safari uses when what they really want are widgets?

Thank you!
I've been wondering why iOS device sales have cratered lately...

Menel
Feb 9, 2012, 07:10 AM
How can you have been here since 2004 and still be so clueless?

----------



....There's no such thing as a "quad core" GPU. GPUs have too many functional units nowadays anyway, and they're ALL already scalar. The closet thing to a "quad core GPU" would have been a GeForce 4 4600 Ti 10 years ago. 4 pixel pipes. But that legacy technology isn't the same as what you see today.

Get a clue..Illiterate much? I'm pretty sure this is not a thread about desktop GPU's which differ significantly in technology.

The A5 has a dual-core Imagination Technologies PowerVR 543MP2. The GPU can support upto a 16core configuration.

Here's you a right up from a year ago on how these GPU's are configured.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4225/the-ipad-2-review/5

----------

Meh, I don't think so. I think the CPU/GPU of A5 chips are like Intel's CPU, where an integrated GPU comes with it.

My question to you guys is, which is more beneficial for in-game texture/better fps/be able to drive retina display? Faster dual core, or quad core? I'm no CPU guy, so I have no clue which is suppose to be better.Generally GPU benefits games more. A dual-core next gen A15 ARM, and a quad-core next gen PowerVR GPU would be absolutely fantastic.

Mackan
Feb 9, 2012, 07:28 AM
I am pretty sure iPad 3's major upgrade will be a retina display. Quad core will then be added in iPad 4 instead, so people have a reason to upgrade. It's all normal Apple business as usual. Can't give the customers too much value for the money.

rmwebs
Feb 9, 2012, 07:55 AM
"No one will buy it if there's no quad-cores"

But seriously. Whatever Apple has will be a huge leap forward, as is usual. :apple:

Lets be fair, not all apple released are a leap forward. The iPad 2 was a speed bump and a camera addon.

The iPhone 4S was a speedbump and a gimmick (siri) addon.

Whilst they may have a lot of technical differences, the end user differences have been mostly minimal.

----------

iPad 3...

Well done...you can spell :p

seong
Feb 9, 2012, 08:16 AM
[/COLOR]Generally GPU benefits games more. A dual-core next gen A15 ARM, and a quad-core next gen PowerVR GPU would be absolutely fantastic.

Ah, so Apple could still maintain a dual-core CPU, but upgrade the GPU to quad-core? Man, that would be awesome! I can't wait to try out games demonstrated on Tegra 4 (or was it 3? the one with glow ball demo.)

Hastings101
Feb 9, 2012, 08:19 AM
Don't own/want an iPad, but a quad-core processor in the iPad would have meant one was coming to the iPhone, which would be a pretty tempting upgrade when my contract is up this summer.

Then again, the switch to dual core caused a pretty drastic drop in battery life on the iPhone 4S, I'd hate to see what a quad core processor would do to it.

chrmjenkins
Feb 9, 2012, 08:20 AM
Thank you!
I've been wondering why iOS device sales have cratered lately...

You need to learn context. My point was to invalidate what I saw as a narrow view of mobile OSes, not comment on sales numbers or buying trends.


We all know that Apple doesn't mention what they're doing though, so if there are fabs out there capable of producing 28nm A15's then you'd think Apple would be ready for it.

Saying they are doing an A15 is different than saying they are doing a quad core A15 out of the gate.


Actually, I'd say the exact opposite. The benefit from a quad-core is huge, you can do real time physics, dynamic lighting, etc.

Have a look at Tegra 3's Glowball demo, early on in the video he disables two cores to show you how it runs or, doesn't run, I should say: Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3h70wH9FA)

You have to remember that is a demo nVidia coded specifically to use all 4 cores. Those tasks you cite are also better suited to a GPU. Any massively parallel operation is.


The SGX543MP2 is better than the Tegra 3's GPU but we need a quad-core processor for better graphics too.

Of course, more is better for the CPU, but assuming apple is working inside some fixed area budget for A6, I'd pick a better GPU every day of the week for a retina iPad display.

When it comes to iOS rumours Topolsky's recent track record is, frankly, abysmal. Yes, they did show pics of the iPhone 4 before Giz but that's because they published the pictures they were sent of the 'found' iPhone 4 prototype but didn't pay for the device itself. Turned out they'd actually had a pic for months showing the iPhone 4 alongside the leaked iPad but hadn't spotted the device was there!

Far more importantly for this story however his track record when it comes to hardware changes over the last 12 months or so is terrible. The iPad 2 was going to come with a retina display and SD slot(?) until being pulled 'at the last minute' (cobblers). The iPhone 5 was supposed to be a radical redesign with a 3.7" screen and gesture area replacing the home button, a 'fact' he was so sure about he posted to both Engadget and ThisIsMyNext / The Verge. Then there was the iCloud farce when he was convinced (and got VERY aggressive towards readers who disagreed but sadly that also seems to be a common theme with his work) that Apple was going to remove any web tools to access iCloud services (e-mail. calendar etc) when MobileMe ended later this year.

So I'd take anything he publishes with a dumptruck full of salt. Could it be right? Absolutely, of course it could. There's no doubt he has sources all the way through the industry and any particular rumour can be correct. But his track record suggests it's a 50/50 shot at best so I wouldn't treat it as gospel just yet.

Of people who publish rumors far in advance in the blog realm, he has the best track record. Even if that number is 50%, it's still better. And he often has the info to nail announcements down the day before.

Anyway with regards the iPad 3 I'd still be somewhat surprised if you didn't see a quad core A9 and quad core graphics processor tucked away inside, if for no other reason that the A6 SoC will presumably find its way into the iPhone 5 as well and a dual core processor running the flagship phone in the first half of 2013 seems unlikely. Yeah they could always do the A7 for that device but it's hardly an efficient use of their production capabilities to be churning out an A6 JUST for the iPad 3.

Samsung's next flagship SoC, the Exynos 5250, will be dual core and power the next galaxy tab and galaxy SIII, which will likely be the best selling android handset. There is an unrealistic stigma on not having quad core in here.

Illiterate much? I'm pretty sure this is not a thread about desktop GPU's which differ significantly in technology.

The A5 has a dual-core Imagination Technologies PowerVR 543MP2. The GPU can support upto a 16core configuration.

Here's you a right up from a year ago on how these GPU's are configured.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4225/the-ipad-2-review/5

----------

Generally GPU benefits games more. A dual-core next gen A15 ARM, and a quad-core next gen PowerVR GPU would be absolutely fantastic.

Yes, his understanding doesn't seem to grasp the point of mobile GPUs. They advertise multiple core configurations because they have to have a variety of options for their licensees. Nvidia and AMD have no such issues. They say "here's the part! It has blah blah shaders and blah blah blah ROPs" and people go ooooohhhhh. There's no reason to divide the architecture into cores even when the structure is highly regular and repeated.

gto55
Feb 9, 2012, 08:27 AM
More rumors about iPad3 screen:

http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macotakara.jp%2Fblog%2Findex.php%3FID%3D15656

http://www.mac4ever.com/images/images_actu/68075_508_ipad_3_au_tour_de_l_ecran_suppose_d_etre_en_photo.jpg

chrmjenkins
Feb 9, 2012, 08:49 AM
More rumors about iPad3 screen:

http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macotakara.jp%2Fblog%2Findex.php%3FID%3D15656

Image (http://www.mac4ever.com/images/images_actu/68075_508_ipad_3_au_tour_de_l_ecran_suppose_d_etre_en_photo.jpg)

Sharp was supposedly ruled as a panel supplier.

till213
Feb 9, 2012, 09:07 AM
While a dual-core A6 is certainly possible, Topolsky's iOS device sources haven't had the greatest track record.

Wow! One rumour blog accusing the other of being "inaccurate", as to still keep their own predictions in the range of "It's still possible!" :p

A6 quad-core? dual-core? Who knows! But in the end there's always someone else to blame to have brought up these wrong rumours in the first place, now isn't there ;)

----------

Quad core will then be added in iPad 4

Correction: That'll be the iPad Quad! ;) Or the iQuad... I am right until proven wrong! (How I love rumours ;))

----------


As expected, the iPad 3 will reportedly include a 2048x1536 Retina Display,...

Covering your ass here, now are we? :) Really, I love rumours! Can't be anything wrong about them! The above is like saying "Now we know for sure that the upcoming Foo might support Bar, as they say..."


Cheers

Mad-B-One
Feb 9, 2012, 09:22 AM
I think there is a general misconception that some people think if the processor has more cores or is running at a higher frequency, this will determine the speed of the device. Sure, since iPad tablets don't have a GPU, it is true to some degree. Thinking about a quadcore, you have to have an app which uses four different threads at once with at least two using the full capacity of the core to see a difference. Now, even with the higher resolution, how many apps will do that? Next thing: Using 4 cores at full speed will be nearly impossible with the current RAM configuration. The bandwith and/or speed would have to be increased to allow more data to be calculated actually getting to the cores. If I would be in charge of what to improve, I would go with more cache, higher bandwith for RAM (e.g. like PC dual channel) and other optimizations before I touch the amount of core or speed of cores. Simple reason: using more cores or higher frequency - someone mentioned 2GHz - causes higher temperature and hot spot which then causes 2 problems users don't apreciate: Lower battery life and a heatPad instead of an iPad. Since Apple is all about customer experiance, I don't think the quality control would let this one slide.

Edit:
To the ones which cite that the GPU is more important: No such thing exists in iDevices. The Ax are doing all of it - much like the AMD Vision chips for mobile devices.

Mr. Retrofire
Feb 9, 2012, 11:05 AM
if a quad-core, like 4G connectivity for the iPhone 4S, will too severely impact battery life i can definitely see them going with a beefed up dual-core setup.

Quad-Core CPUs allow a better power management. So your fear is unfounded.

bushido
Feb 9, 2012, 11:18 AM
please more RAM. 512 is redic, i always have about 20 mb left most of the time according to SB Settings

Mad-B-One
Feb 9, 2012, 11:19 AM
Quad-Core CPUs allow a better power management. So your fear is unfounded.

Yea, by switching off cores not needed - this would make it what? A dual-core? Or by throttling? But which app uses 4 threads at once but not at full power? 99% of apps don't call for more than dual core and the rest will be using every percent of power needed thus suck the battery dry like the NYT App on the iPhone 4 - if I have to warm my hands, I open that.

ufon68
Feb 9, 2012, 11:36 AM
To the ones which cite that the GPU is more important: No such thing exists in iDevices. The Ax are doing all of it - much like the AMD Vision chips for mobile devices.

Obviously when people talk about a GPU, they mean the processing unit in charge of the 2d/3g graphics operations, doesn't really matter if it's located on the same chip as the CPU or if it's a different bug 5 inches away. It's still a circuit dedicated for graphics, hence a GPU.

But if you still believe there is no GPU in the iDevices, then don't look here, (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/apple-ipad-2-gpu-performance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked) since they even manage to benchmark that nonexistent GPU.

milo
Feb 9, 2012, 11:59 AM
But what about ram? I would think they'd have to go to a gig, but that's what people said last time and it didn't happen.

And yes, the extra ram makes a difference. With multiple web tabs open, tabs often have to reload after switching. And quitting other apps (even though that's supposed to be unnecessary) makes that reloading happen less often.

nylonsteel
Feb 9, 2012, 12:03 PM
re original article

ah cmon aapl - quad is better than dual - you know that

longofest
Feb 9, 2012, 12:06 PM
Samsung was rumored to be introducing next-gen Galaxy Tab with a dual-core Cortex A15 based Exynos chip at MWC (http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2753569/samsungs-next-gen-galaxy-tab-headed-to-mwc-with-2ghz-processor-2560-x) later this month. It is not unlikely that Apple might get first hand at the chip if they are aggressive enough.
Even if Apple passes on updating the CPU cores for the next iPad, I highly doubt they'll also neglect the graphics, especially if the "retina" display makes its way to the iPad.

Oh, they will almost certainly update the graphics. However I tend to put more weight into the idea that the next chip will be quad-core Cortex-A9 based rather than dual-core and Cortex-A15.

Also, note that "announcing" is not the same thing as "shipping".

ufon68
Feb 9, 2012, 12:34 PM
But what about ram? I would think they'd have to go to a gig, but that's what people said last time and it didn't happen.

And yes, the extra ram makes a difference. With multiple web tabs open, tabs often have to reload after switching. And quitting other apps (even though that's supposed to be unnecessary) makes that reloading happen less often.

People saying apple was going for 1GB with iPad2 have no knowledge of apple's upgrading history. I think 1GB is very very very likely, actually almost inevitable, this time around, unless i'm mistaken, the RAM is shared between GPU and CPU and we will need a video RAM upgrade to support the higher res.

Saladinos
Feb 9, 2012, 02:03 PM
I think there is a general misconception that some people think if the processor has more cores or is running at a higher frequency, this will determine the speed of the device. Sure, since iPad tablets don't have a GPU, it is true to some degree. Thinking about a quadcore, you have to have an app which uses four different threads at once with at least two using the full capacity of the core to see a difference. Now, even with the higher resolution, how many apps will do that? Next thing: Using 4 cores at full speed will be nearly impossible with the current RAM configuration. The bandwith and/or speed would have to be increased to allow more data to be calculated actually getting to the cores. If I would be in charge of what to improve, I would go with more cache, higher bandwith for RAM (e.g. like PC dual channel) and other optimizations before I touch the amount of core or speed of cores. Simple reason: using more cores or higher frequency - someone mentioned 2GHz - causes higher temperature and hot spot which then causes 2 problems users don't apreciate: Lower battery life and a heatPad instead of an iPad. Since Apple is all about customer experiance, I don't think the quality control would let this one slide.

Edit:
To the ones which cite that the GPU is more important: No such thing exists in iDevices. The Ax are doing all of it - much like the AMD Vision chips for mobile devices.

Nope, sorry. There is a GPU.

What people are getting confused by is that it's a system-on-a-chip. Apple license the IP from ARM and Imagination and others and build a chip that integrates all of them. There was another story a few days ago about a speeh processing company whose IP had been licensed by Apple for integration inside their SoCs. It's also got a load of customisations like hardware acceleration for face recognition.

In a PC, you might have separate CPU, controller and GPU chips (amongst others). With a SoC, those are all located on the same physical package. The idea behind that is this simplifies the design, gives you better performance and power consumption, in high-level terms. I think Apple even includes the RAM chips inside the A5 package.

There is still a separate graphics processing unit. It's provided by Imagination. Apple pays them royalties for it.

Mad-B-One
Feb 9, 2012, 02:12 PM
Nope, sorry. There is a GPU.

What people are getting confused by is that it's a system-on-a-chip. Apple license the IP from ARM and Imagination and others and build a chip that integrates all of them. There was another story a few days ago about a speeh processing company whose IP had been licensed by Apple for integration inside their SoCs. It's also got a load of customisations like hardware acceleration for face recognition.

In a PC, you might have separate CPU, controller and GPU chips (amongst others). With a SoC, those are all located on the same physical package. The idea behind that is this simplifies the design, gives you better performance and power consumption, in high-level terms. I think Apple even includes the RAM chips inside the A5 package.

There is still a separate graphics processing unit. It's provided by Imagination. Apple pays them royalties for it.

Obviously when people talk about a GPU, they mean the processing unit in charge of the 2d/3g graphics operations, doesn't really matter if it's located on the same chip as the CPU or if it's a different bug 5 inches away. It's still a circuit dedicated for graphics, hence a GPU.

But if you still believe there is no GPU in the iDevices, then don't look here, (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/apple-ipad-2-gpu-performance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked) since they even manage to benchmark that nonexistent GPU.

Errr... nope. If you look carefully, you will see (http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/2/files/2011/03/APL0498_APL0498E01_Backside.jpg) that all calculations (except some specifics like earSmart, WiFi, memory controler, etc) go through one of the 2 cores. No "GPU" there. Virtually, yes, they exist and if you compare graphics, you compare that speed. In these kind of mobile devices though it is done by the CPU cores. If you think a set of commands is a seperate processing unit, fine. But since the "processing" is done by the CPU, there is only a "G" and a "U" left from the GPU. :cool:

Also: The RAM is not on-die. It is the Toshiba DRAM Y890A111222KA - seperate chip. Look at the teardowns (http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-2-3G-GSM-CDMA-Teardown/5127/1).

PS: Saying that the A4/A5 has a GPU on-die would be saying that Pentium and Athlon are GPUs as well since they have SSE and/or 3DNow on-die.

gorskiegangsta
Feb 9, 2012, 02:17 PM
Oh, they will almost certainly update the graphics. However I tend to put more weight into the idea that the next chip will be quad-core Cortex-A9 based rather than dual-core and Cortex-A15.

Also, note that "announcing" is not the same thing as "shipping".

Well, the dual-core Cortex-A15 based Exynos was planned to be shipped "in quantity" by Q2 2012 (http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/30/2599723/samsungs-2ghz-exynos-5250-is-first-soc-with-super-fast-dual-core). Assuming that iPad 3 ships in mid March, it is not unlikely for Apple to jump aboard the dual-core Cortex-A15 based design train. I do, however, agree with you that it'll make more sense for them to go with a quad-core Cortex-A9 and significantly bump the graphics, perhaps with a quad-core PowerVR SGX543.

hchung
Feb 9, 2012, 03:42 PM
Errr... nope. If you look carefully, you will see (http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/2/files/2011/03/APL0498_APL0498E01_Backside.jpg) that all calculations (except some specifics like earSmart, WiFi, memory controler, etc) go through one of the 2 cores. No "GPU" there. Virtually, yes, they exist and if you compare graphics, you compare that speed. In these kind of mobile devices though it is done by the CPU cores. If you think a set of commands is a seperate processing unit, fine. But since the "processing" is done by the CPU, there is only a "G" and a "U" left from the GPU. :cool:

Also: The RAM is not on-die. It is the Toshiba DRAM Y890A111222KA - seperate chip. Look at the teardowns (http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-2-3G-GSM-CDMA-Teardown/5127/1).


The GPU isn't labeled because whoever wrote in the labels didn't know.
I believe it's likely to be one or two of the four blocks on the right; either the one underneath the "I/O" text, the one marked "Digital Logic Blocks" or the two immediately underneath the two I just mentioned. Most likely the larger one south of the one under the "I/O" text.

GPU functionality is definitely not done by the CPU datapath. I don't know where you got that idea, but you're just simply wrong.

chrmjenkins
Feb 9, 2012, 03:59 PM
Quad-Core CPUs allow a better power management. So your fear is unfounded.

Misleading. A quad vs dual core alone says nothing about power better or worse power management. Quad core can be better if it allows tasks to be finished quicker and for the CPU to go back to sleep, but that is all contingent on the power management scheme of the SoC and the typical workloads it sees.

DeathChill
Feb 9, 2012, 08:17 PM
The funny thing is that I tried to google search to verify and the top hit is a tweet where Gruber jokes that he is wrong. I'll have to pay closer attention in the future. However, the pure gold comment was in reference to no new hardware at WWDC 2011, which was widely expected and not a surprise.

No, here's an exact quote from Gruber:

But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Jim Dalrymple’s sources at Apple are gold.

-LikesMac-
Feb 9, 2012, 11:35 PM
If there's a dual-core iPad 3, it will probably be based on the Cortex A15 (Hopefully). The RAM will probably be doubled again to 1GB, and the GPU will definitely be upgraded for retina-display (which we're all hoping for, right?) :p

ufon68
Feb 10, 2012, 02:13 AM
Errr... nope. If you look carefully, you will see (http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/2/files/2011/03/APL0498_APL0498E01_Backside.jpg) that all calculations (except some specifics like earSmart, WiFi, memory controler, etc) go through one of the 2 cores. No "GPU" there. Virtually, yes, they exist and if you compare graphics, you compare that speed. In these kind of mobile devices though it is done by the CPU cores. If you think a set of commands is a seperate processing unit, fine. But since the "processing" is done by the CPU, there is only a "G" and a "U" left from the GPU. :cool:

Also: The RAM is not on-die. It is the Toshiba DRAM Y890A111222KA - seperate chip. Look at the teardowns (http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-2-3G-GSM-CDMA-Teardown/5127/1).

Well if you follow your link to the actual article (http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/technology-blog/2011/03/apple-a5-vs-a4-floorplan-comparison/), you will notice they talk about a GPU and they will even tell you which one it is. Sorry, but the fact remains that all iphones, ipod touches and ipad have had a GPU, it's absurd to try to convince anyone otherwise, and it's absurd to think the graphics calculations are actually done by the CPU.

The truth is, all evidence and logic points to one conclusion, there is a dedicated graphics processing unit on-die with the cpu(or even elsewhere for all i care), but if you think you can provide any evidence to the contrary, by all means, i'll be glad to learn.



PS: Saying that the A4/A5 has a GPU on-die would be saying that Pentium and Athlon are GPUs as well since they have SSE and/or 3DNow on-die.

That's hardly the same, these are just instruction sets extensions meant to accelerate specific calculations, sometimes not even graphics related and as you know, even with those you still need a dedicated GPU. So if anything, this just goes further to show you need much more than just to modify your CPU with new instruction sets to achieve some reasonable graphics performance and that's the case with iDevices as well.

MythicFrost
Feb 10, 2012, 03:19 AM
The A5 is a SoC including the CPU, RAM, and GPU. They are all included on the die, in fact the reason why the A5's die size is so huge, is because of the GPU. The CPU has nothing to do with calculating GPU related things.

whooleytoo
Feb 10, 2012, 10:49 AM
There is still a separate graphics processing unit. It's provided by Imagination. Apple pays them royalties for it.

Yup, the SGX543MP2 on the iPad 2, possibly one of the G6200 or G6400 on the iPad 3.

longofest
Feb 10, 2012, 12:03 PM
Well, the dual-core Cortex-A15 based Exynos was planned to be shipped "in quantity" by Q2 2012 (http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/30/2599723/samsungs-2ghz-exynos-5250-is-first-soc-with-super-fast-dual-core). Assuming that iPad 3 ships in mid March, it is not unlikely for Apple to jump aboard the dual-core Cortex-A15 based design train. I do, however, agree with you that it'll make more sense for them to go with a quad-core Cortex-A9 and significantly bump the graphics, perhaps with a quad-core PowerVR SGX543.

Fair enough... and don't get me wrong - I'd LOVE to see Apple beat my expectations and make the next chip be A15 based. I just don't think it's likely based on the iBoot leak we saw that showed a model number that only increased by 5 (rather than 10 from A4 to A5). Granted, the iBoot could have been faked, but I kinda doubt it.

chrmjenkins
Feb 10, 2012, 12:07 PM
Fair enough... and don't get me wrong - I'd LOVE to see Apple beat my expectations and make the next chip be A15 based. I just don't think it's likely based on the iBoot leak we saw that showed a model number that only increased by 5 (rather than 10 from A4 to A5). Granted, the iBoot could have been faked, but I kinda doubt it.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you there. It's looking like quad A9 is what it's going to be. But it's not all sad. They could launch it on a 28nm or 32nm process and do a little more custom work to the cores to make it more than just an A5 times 2. Of course, it could have been a developmental chip that they were designing as a testbed, contingency plan, etc.

iSee
Feb 11, 2012, 12:02 PM
That rumor never made any sense.

For Apple to add such an expensive (expensive in several ways: $, size, power consumption, R & D) feature there would need to be significant value to the additional cores... So...

What would all those cores be doing, exactly?

Where Apple sees a significant value to doing computationally intensive functions, they've gone the route of providing a specialized co-processor in order to optimize the tradeoffs. (E.g., video decompressing, 3D graphics, audio processing.)

For Apple to add general purpose computational power to the iPad, they would have to see the iPad as a good fit for general purpose number crunching.

Which is ridiculous.

wackamac
Feb 11, 2012, 02:28 PM
what if apple makes it 3 core?

holmesf
Feb 11, 2012, 08:39 PM
what if apple makes it 3 core?

Then I'll eat my hat.

pmz
Feb 11, 2012, 09:16 PM
It really DOES NOT matter.

What we all want is a faster processor. Apple will deliver that.

/thread

chrmjenkins
Feb 11, 2012, 09:40 PM
It really DOES NOT matter.

What we all want is a faster processor. Apple will deliver that.

/thread

Of course. Why discuss anything ever?

pmz
Feb 11, 2012, 10:40 PM
Of course. Why discuss anything ever?

Of course, don't be silly :p

This thread just got particularly out of hand, with basically no sense being made by anyone. People with zero knowledge of how an iPad will actually perform with a Quad Core Cortex A9, or a Dual Core Cortex A15, weighing in with their sincere definitive answers. Lol.

I know this is for that purpose, but this one time that we can probably say, "Let's see what they do. Either way, we know it will be a lot faster."

chrmjenkins
Feb 11, 2012, 11:10 PM
Of course, don't be silly :p

This thread just got particularly out of hand, with basically no sense being made by anyone. People with zero knowledge of how an iPad will actually perform with a Quad Core Cortex A9, or a Dual Core Cortex A15, weighing in with their sincere definitive answers. Lol.

I know this is for that purpose, but this one time that we can probably say, "Let's see what they do. Either way, we know it will be a lot faster."

There are several members of this forum that can make educated guesses. Of course, part of the interesting part is postulating since apple has total control over both the hardware and software. We always operate with a degree of unknown because this is a rumor site.

MythicFrost
Feb 11, 2012, 11:42 PM
I thought apple's A# archetexture integrated the GPU, is there a separate GPU on iOS devices?
The A5 is a SoC designed by Apple which includes the RAM, CPU, and GPU -- it's not an integrated GPU and nor does it have anything to do with the processor, it's a discrete GPU.

Saying they are doing an A15 is different than saying they are doing a quad core A15 out of the gate.

I suppose, but if they're able to do a dual-core they should be able to do a quad-core as well.

You have to remember that is a demo nVidia coded specifically to use all 4 cores. Those tasks you cite are also better suited to a GPU. Any massively parallel operation is.

It is, but it shows what happens with only two. I'm not too sure about that, if those things were better done on a GPU, why not just keep a dual core and improve the GPU even more? Perhaps a lot of it is done on the GPU but the CPU is still required for some things, and not to mention, the scene reacting to the accelerometer.

Of course, more is better for the CPU, but assuming apple is working inside some fixed area budget for A6, I'd pick a better GPU every day of the week for a retina iPad display.

Yeah first and foremost they'll need a GPU that'll handle the retina display, that's the most important, but they still should be able to give us a better processor and more RAM.

cbrad82
Feb 11, 2012, 11:51 PM
I agree.......

fozzy.bear
Feb 12, 2012, 12:28 PM
All the REAL user cares about is things like: Can I get to where I want to go without waiting forever and does it do what I need it to do. Nobody really cares about how many cores what mhz what rammaframmus is inside all they what to do is do their stuff. My gosh you geeks are truly amazing as to what you get all hung up about. the real issues are have: we stopped, or when are we going to ......... fill in the blanks (bombs, genetically engineered seeds, global warming, world starvation, the right/wrong person in the White House, what's the winning number for the PowerBall Lottery)