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ILikeTurtles
Mar 9, 2012, 09:30 AM
I've been doing graphic design for 19 years - and I'm burnt the (bleep) out.

So sick of dealing with frustrating clients. I feel like I could snap. I've lost my passion for what I do. Found a new passion in baking, but I have no idea how to make the transition from one career to another. I have a mortgage, car, and a life to pay for, so I can't just "quit my day job."

Not whining - just needed to vent to the interwebs.



ECUpirate44
Mar 9, 2012, 09:31 AM
Without a degree in finance, thats a tough transition.

GoCubsGo
Mar 9, 2012, 09:34 AM
^ do you know how many people are in banking with nothing more than a high school diploma? I can name at least 5 Senior VPs of major banks who never went to college.

That said, design is a skill that people just don't appreciate. Some ******* kid gets their hands on Photoshop and starts calling themselves a designer or if truly ballsy, a web designer. I feel for designers because it truly is a path that can be difficult to manage. Anytime you work with the public you're often left feeling like you just got shat on.

Make your move, it's really never too late so long as you can support yourself and whomever you may be responsible for.

When you say banking, what exactly are you referring to? That is such a broad term these days that I do wonder.

ILikeTurtles
Mar 9, 2012, 09:35 AM
Baking (as in a bakery) not banking.

Thanks for the laugh.

Pixellated
Mar 9, 2012, 09:36 AM
Wait a minute... Banking or baking?


EDIT: You beat me to it, already :)

GoCubsGo
Mar 9, 2012, 09:36 AM
LOL holy ****er! I read banking just like the other guy. :o

Well damn ... you'll need capital if you want to get into BAKING. ;)

jbachandouris
Mar 9, 2012, 09:41 AM
Good luck with whatever you choose to do, but remember, people like me who are out of work have a hard time sympathizing with someone employed yet 'burned out.'

I do hope you find a way to make money doing your passion as it has been said that less than 25% of American's like/love their job.

GoCubsGo
Mar 9, 2012, 09:44 AM
Good luck with whatever you choose to do, but remember, people like me who are out of work have a hard time sympathizing with someone employed yet 'burned out.'

I do hope you find a way to make money doing your passion as it has been said that less than 25% of American's like/love their job.
Just because people are unemployed doesn't mean that one cannot be dissatisfied with their job. I totally get what you're saying but I recently said something about my job and the person I was speaking to told me to shut it because at least i had one. Yes, I do and I'm fortunate but that doesn't mean I need to be all rainbows and unicorns over it and it shouldn't prohibit me from talking about my woes. Undoubtedly, it's hard for someone who doesn't even have a job to bitch about to hear about someone who is just fed up with theirs, but it does go both ways I think.

You are right though, in this day and age to decide you're done and you're going to start something that many fail at is borderline crazy but who knows, it could very well work out.

chrono1081
Mar 9, 2012, 09:49 AM
For baking you should work on clever and unique ways to present your goods. Even though I hate things like cookies and cakes (I know I'm weird) I'm a sucker for clever packaging and presentation.

MBurton2003
Mar 9, 2012, 10:15 AM
I know exactly what you are talking about. I have been doing motion graphics for year and found a new love in baking. My wife and I started a small speciality bakery business called Lisa's Cookie Bar. We run the business out of our house. We hope to one day lease out space to have it as our full time jobs. We still work full time at our other jobs to pay the BIG bills. I really hope you the best.

ILikeTurtles
Mar 9, 2012, 11:53 AM
I know exactly what you are talking about. I have been doing motion graphics for year and found a new love in baking. My wife and I started a small speciality bakery business called Lisa's Cookie Bar. We run the business out of our house. We hope to one day lease out space to have it as our full time jobs. We still work full time at our other jobs to pay the BIG bills. I really hope you the best.


That's awesome!!! Very inspirational. Thanks!

Laird Knox
Mar 9, 2012, 12:40 PM
Perhaps you can get into banking as the first two responses suggested. At least you can still "cook the books" in that field. ;)

Designer Dale
Mar 9, 2012, 01:26 PM
Perhaps you can get into banking as the first two responses suggested. At least you can still "cook the books" in that field. ;)

And be careful. Sometimes they book the cook...

Note: I voted every post with a reference to banking up. Thanks for the giggles.

Dale

Laird Knox
Mar 9, 2012, 01:57 PM
Note: I voted every post with a reference to banking up. Thanks for the giggles.

Dale

You missed our posts so I voted them up for you. :D

andiwm2003
Mar 9, 2012, 02:14 PM
Baking (as in a bakery) not banking.

Thanks for the laugh.

Wait a minute... Banking or baking?


EDIT: You beat me to it, already :)

LOL holy ****er! I read banking just like the other guy. :o

Well damn ... you'll need capital if you want to get into BAKING. ;)

you know you could try to bake money. would combine baking and banking and graphics design. just a bit illegal.

kevinfulton.ca
Mar 9, 2012, 03:30 PM
For baking you should work on clever and unique ways to present your goods. Even though I hate things like cookies and cakes (I know I'm weird) I'm a sucker for clever packaging and presentation.

I agree. That would be a great combination and people love that kinda stuff. I feel your pain though. I've been designing professionally for about 10 years now (5years as a freelancer and 5 with a day job) and my one time passion has become "just a job" in a lot of ways and I've lost my motivation for personal design projects. I think a lot of creatives do exactly what you've done and find something outside of their day jobs to keep them sane, but still exercises their creative muscles. For me it's jamming in my buddies basement or doing personal photography projects. Both of which I'm not looking to make money which helps me detach from any kind of work vibe. I find that it gives you a greater sense of accomplishment creatively.

P.S. Share some pics of your creations! I'm interested to see what a designer can bake :D

sigmadog
Mar 9, 2012, 05:50 PM
Baking (as in a bakery) not banking.

Thanks for the laugh.

Either way, it takes a lot of dough.

citizenzen
Mar 9, 2012, 06:52 PM
I've been doing graphic design for 19 years - and I'm burnt the (bleep) out.

I feel for you. I'm a 20+ year graphic designer who's not yet burnt out, but can see where you're coming from.

It's still the best job I've ever had ... and I've had a few.

I like getting paid for making something pretty. I like getting paid for conceptualizing. I like getting paid for brainstorming. I like getting paid for collaborating with other talented people.

And I like bitching about how clueless client are.

We'll miss you.

ECUpirate44
Mar 9, 2012, 06:55 PM
Baking (as in a bakery) not banking.

Thanks for the laugh.

Whoops haha. Good luck baking :D

LaWally
Mar 11, 2012, 04:39 PM
I've been doing graphic design for 19 years - and I'm burnt the (bleep) out.

So sick of dealing with frustrating clients.

On the other hand try running a business without them. How do you know your customers in the baking business will not be even more frustrating?

diane143
Mar 11, 2012, 04:44 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

No matter what your field is, you can always bitch about your clients. :)

That said..... To the OP, start something part time out of your house if you can. That lets you pay the bills, see the light at the end of the tunnel and build your new business all while seeing if it's right for you. Sure it's a lot of work but what isn't?

Best of luck!

Peace
Mar 11, 2012, 04:47 PM
Starting a new bakery is a risky operation. The failure rate is above 50%.

It takes a lot of knowledge,expertise,energy and money to start a successful bakery.

However with your extensive background in graphics design that will give you a head start on some things.

If you do your own graphics that will cut down the cost of display quite a bit.

citizenzen
Mar 11, 2012, 06:59 PM
If you do your own graphics that will cut down the cost of display quite a bit.

[top customer comment]

Your bread sucks ass.

But that's a really great font choice in your display.

[/top customer comment]

:D

decksnap
Mar 11, 2012, 07:11 PM
I feel ya- some of my clients are really burning me out. May I suggest that your goal should be to get your business to a place where you can pick and choose your clients? Sounds easier than it is I know, but if you have one or two pain in the ass clients that can keep the lights on, you can afford to pick and choose the other clients that allow you to do work that gets you out of the bed in the morning. Our company is not afraid to fire clients. We want clients that view us as a partner and authority on what we do, and not a wrist.

If you are, after 19 years, not in a place where you can affect that change within your company, you need to do something about that, or start a new company.

Apple Key
Mar 11, 2012, 10:30 PM
I am sorry to hear that. :(

Are there any aspects of design that you still enjoy?

In a way baking is similar to graphic design (besides both being creative endeavors). For both of them you don't need many tools or necessarily any certifications to succeed or get started.

I'm sure you already have most of the cookware you require. The other part is of course the food and creativity with dishes. Try to set a schedule for yourself in practicing cooking. Something that you can easily stick to. If I were in your shoes, that's what I would do. Try cooking every night or so and see if you can really see yourself doing that.

Moonjumper
Mar 12, 2012, 02:27 PM
Part of it may be that you are resenting the need to earn money from the graphic design, and so it cannot be purely about the joy of a task you enjoy. Add in that you don't get to work on only the days you want, and have the clients relying on you. But after doing it for so long, more things are familiar than new, the excitement of your early career is not the same now.

Perhaps you need to revel in the quality of your craft instead. Take satisfaction in a job well done.

And looks to baking for the joy of something new.

ILikeTurtles
Mar 12, 2012, 02:57 PM
I think what I really need to do is - open my window and jump! lol

citizenzen
Mar 12, 2012, 03:29 PM
I think what I really need to do is - open my window and jump! lol

Don't jump.

Apple Key
Mar 12, 2012, 04:14 PM
I think what I really need to do is - open my window and jump! lol

Yes, don't jump. Glad you put an lol at the end.

If that's really how you're feeling, I hate to say it, but it sounds like you need to quit your job. You may find yourself happier scraping by doing something you love. Of course this might be the most difficult decision of your life.

Macman45
Mar 12, 2012, 04:16 PM
Without a degree in finance, thats a tough transition.

err...Baking? I doubt a degree in finance would help...:D:D

ECUpirate44
Mar 12, 2012, 04:28 PM
err...Baking? I doubt a degree in finance would help...:D:D

You got me :D

Consultant
Mar 12, 2012, 04:55 PM
...Found a new passion in baking,...

so that's the plot for sequel of The Baker:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0783234/

How about charging more. I find the more the client are willing to pay, the more professional clients you'll get. (You have to offer something that's worth it for them of course).

Moonjumper
Mar 12, 2012, 06:23 PM
I think what I really need to do is - open my window and jump! lol

I looked back at my last post and it does sound depressing. Sorry if that what makes you think of jumping.

What I was trying to say is take satisfaction from a job you do well, and pride from providing for a family with it. Get your kicks from the baking.

madaspy
Mar 12, 2012, 08:42 PM
I know how you feel. i've been doing motion design for the past 4 years and I love what i do, but i understand crazy clients. They drive me insane, especially when they constantly contradict them selves and then deny it.

I started to become jaded and I realized that my passion for video never died it was just dealing with the clients and the type of design I had to do. So I found that personal projects where the key. Basically it allowed me to be creative in a manner that i saw fit with out all the bureaucracy and watering down that comes with the service market.

So in your case you have baking. I am assuming that baking is what you do for fun, I bet it is enjoyable, i bet you feel how you felt when you started learning design.

So, all i can say is bake all the time, weekends, weekdays, after work all the time.

Just remember that with any client service, the client will all ways rule for better or worse.

steveash
Mar 13, 2012, 06:19 AM
I am in a similar position. I have turned to photography which is equally as risky. My advise would be to make the transition in slow stages. I am doing it over 12 months with milestones planned out along the way. I can't afford to give up my design business just yet but having a new purpose is making it much less stressful. As my photography work picks up I am starting to say no to the design projects that I don't want or that don't pay well enough.

I know that baking is a a tricky thing to do without giving it all your time but You could start off just doing Saturday mornings and then move into some mid-week mornings while doing some design work in the afternoons.

Invest what you can afford when you can afford it and avoid going into debt. Plan the new business well and use all your marketing knowledge to make it a success. From that perspective you have a massive advantage over other bakers.

ILikeTurtles
Mar 13, 2012, 02:20 PM
I'm not depressed - just fed up.

Can you believe I had to revise a simple web banner graphic (1024 x 100px) 6 times yesterday!!! 6 Times! And the dumb client couldn't tell me the exact dimensions of their banner space. I had to estimate the size by taking a screen cap of their website. So once she hands it over to her IT people to plug in the new graphic, they're going to come back and say, "it doesn't fit." Then I will have to revise it for the 7th time, once someone tells her the true size. This is the kind of insanity I'm talking about - and believe me - this example is on the smallest scale of insanity. I have more stories. I could write a book.

Don't get me started on the time, a few months ago, when I had to revise a sell sheet design 27 times!!!

Apple Key
Mar 13, 2012, 04:04 PM
I'm not depressed - just fed up.

Can you believe I had to revise a simple web banner graphic (1024 x 100px) 6 times yesterday!!! 6 Times! And the dumb client couldn't tell me the exact dimensions of their banner space. I had to estimate the size by taking a screen cap of their website. So once she hands it over to her IT people to plug in the new graphic, they're going to come back and say, "it doesn't fit." Then I will have to revise it for the 7th time, once someone tells her the true size. This is the kind of insanity I'm talking about - and believe me - this example is on the smallest scale of insanity. I have more stories. I could write a book.

Don't get me started on the time, a few months ago, when I had to revise a sell sheet design 27 times!!!

Wow. That does sound awful. 27 times?

You might be onto something with the book idea. I would read it. :)

newwavedave
Mar 13, 2012, 10:26 PM
I could write a book.

Believe me, I know the feeling. A year and a half ago, I dropped out of the graphic design business. I'm sick of ********s telling me how to design. Every now and then I do some work for my wife as she is my sugar momma. Now I work as a trainer at our favorite fruit store and I teach people how to use their fruit products.

Marcus PM
Mar 14, 2012, 01:46 AM
I've been doing graphic production and design for over 30 years. I feel very lucky to have found something I enjoy that can make a living at too.
I also enjoy baking.

ILikeTurtles
Mar 14, 2012, 07:46 AM
Believe me, I know the feeling. A year and a half ago, I dropped out of the graphic design business. I'm sick of ********s telling me how to design. Every now and then I do some work for my wife as she is my sugar momma. Now I work as a trainer at our favorite fruit store and I teach people how to use their fruit products.

OMG! This post made my morning! Thank you. LMFAO :D

odinsride
Mar 14, 2012, 08:16 AM
Either way, it takes a lot of dough.

lol'd

sxdev
Mar 14, 2012, 11:42 AM
If you have any extra assets use them with the baking to set you apart. Two I can think of:

Do a niche product:

If near international folks, embassies, or other cultural centers, do Marzipan. Damn thing costs me $24.95/lb at my local shop and sells well. Likely you or others you know can design cute ones.

Sell yourself as part of your business:

For example in a small Virginia town (Culpeper), a charming gay French guy showed up, set up a tiny stand in corner or a store selling expensive Chocolates. He called it the Frenchman's corner. He was fun to visit for the town folks. Now he has boutiques and is retired so don't even see him when you visit his shop.

Good luck!

B. Hunter
Mar 14, 2012, 11:52 PM
I've been doing graphic design for 19 years - and I'm burnt the (bleep) out.

So sick of dealing with frustrating clients. I feel like I could snap. I've lost my passion for what I do. Found a new passion in baking, but I have no idea how to make the transition from one career to another. I have a mortgage, car, and a life to pay for, so I can't just "quit my day job."

Not whining - just needed to vent to the interwebs.

May I suggest you explore the gluten free baking industry.
A lot of potential for a growing market.

And while you are at it, would you mind sharing your current client list. :D

ILikeTurtles
Mar 15, 2012, 02:34 PM
May I suggest you explore the gluten free baking industry.
A lot of potential for a growing market.

And while you are at it, would you mind sharing your current client list. :D

HAHA. My employer would sue me if I gave that to you.

Jong Tong
Mar 18, 2012, 10:37 PM
Maybe you should just start being brutally honest with clients and fire the frustrating ones and find new good ones

ArztMac
Mar 19, 2012, 07:32 AM
Starting a new bakery is a risky operation. The failure rate is above 50%.

Just curious, where is this data coming from?

LaWally
Mar 19, 2012, 09:32 AM
Just curious, where is this data coming from?

"According to statistics published by the Small Business Administration (SBA), seven out of ten new employer establishments survive at least two years and 51 percent survive at least five years. This is a far cry from the previous long-held belief that 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year and 95 percent fail within five years."

This also has some interesting info:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/01/small-business-successfailure-rates/

ArztMac
Mar 19, 2012, 10:37 AM
"According to statistics published by the Small Business Administration (SBA), seven out of ten new employer establishments survive at least two years and 51 percent survive at least five years. This is a far cry from the previous long-held belief that 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year and 95 percent fail within five years."

This also has some interesting info:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/01/small-business-successfailure-rates/

Wow, interesting. Thanks a bunch!

lucasgladding
Mar 20, 2012, 01:34 PM
Have you tried changing your focus in the industry? Obviously there are many things you can do outside designing brochures and banners. I started teaching myself software development 7 years ago, and am now primarily a software and web developer. A developer who understands design is valuable, and I find that development exercises the creative juices better than graphic design does.

I know what you mean about frustrating clients, though honest conversations often resolves issues, temporarily in the worst case.

Finally, why not combine the two? Start a site about baking/recipes/etc and do that during your free time. Having your own project to work on does wonders for morale, and might help you make the move to baking full-time.

I'm sure they're things you have already considered, but sometimes getting up voted from someone else helps with decision-making.

Best of luck in wherever you go from here.

PS: Is it design that is frustrating you, or interacting with clients? If it's the latter, a career change probably won't help in the long run.

designs216
Mar 20, 2012, 04:13 PM
I feel your pain. I've been at it nearly as long as you and every boss has been clueless. In my experience, they pretty much view designers as software operators as opposed to the professional who helps them communicate/sell more effectively to customers. I've come to terms with the fact that the boss doesn't have to trust my judgement (though he's paid for it) and though it is detrimental to business.

These days I give my advice with a smile and don't wear any angst on my sleeve bearing in mind that this gig pays the mortgage. The thing for me that keeps my love of this business alive is freelance work. One works directly with clients without all the account weenies or layers of bureaucracy to water down your ideas. I can lower the rate for a project I really believe in or raise the rate when I sense deep pockets. If a potential client proposes a job that I don't want or I just don't like them, I can turn it down.

The other idea that occurs to me is this: How about working in a bakery part time to see what it's really like? This way you learn the business and if the grass is truly greener before you kiss your bread-and-butter (so to speak) goodbye? You'll earn a little money without burning bridges. Don't tell the proprietor what you're up to so he/she is more apt to teach you what may be trade secrets.

Whatever you decide, best of luck.

RedCroissant
Mar 20, 2012, 09:16 PM
I think opening up your own bakery would be great. My wife and I flirted with the idea but didn't have the capital and laws in Texas(when we still lived there) prevented people from selling food out of their own home. You could also use your design talents to make really awesome cakes and/or decorations. You could even get some kind of special printer that prints edible paper with food coloring and design cakes around what you produce. Good luck with what you decide.

Another idea might be to do some design stuff for charities or for people in general that might not be able to pay as much as a usual client. That way, you might regain some of your passion for the work and not go insane. The you could save, retire, and open a bakery then.

Or another option, bake stuff at home and then bring it to work to smash into the faces of the clients that annoy you. It's simple, fun, and the victim might just get a tasty bit in their mouths and want to hire you for that. And again, good luck!

ezekielrage_99
Mar 21, 2012, 03:11 AM
Sorry to piggyback.. But I'm burnt out as well.

I've been at the same company for over 4 years and in dire need of a change, and I'm really thinking now I to get out of design all together.

I went for an interview today, though I must admit I'm a little out of practice so I was a little surprise when the Tech Officer pulled out a Nerf gun and shot me with (yes those little disc things hurt). After today I really feel like throwing in the industry and work at a coffee shop (though I really hate jobs with dealing with lots of people).

Macman45
Mar 21, 2012, 03:14 AM
Sorry to piggyback.. But I'm burnt out as well.

I've been at the same company for over 4 years and in dire need of a change, and I'm really thinking now I to get out of design all together.

I went for an interview today, though I must admit I'm a little out of practice so I was a little surprise when the Tech Officer pulled out a Nerf gun and shot me with (yes those little disc things hurt). After today I really feel like throwing in the industry and work at a coffee shop (though I really hate jobs with dealing with lots of people).

Why the nerd gun? Some kind of new interview techniques? Odd.:eek:

Angelo95210
Mar 21, 2012, 03:31 AM
I think everyone should have two or three careers in its life. Be patient and see the long term aspect. You can make any move you want as long as it's well planned. My only recommendation would be to build on your assets to add value to your profile. That means if you change area, your design skills should still be something useful for you. (see the Stanford speech of S. Jobs about 'connecting the dots').

ezekielrage_99
Mar 21, 2012, 03:52 AM
Why the nerd gun? Some kind of new interview techniques? Odd.:eek:

That's what I thought... Didn't really know what to make of it, I think he was trying to make out it's such an "awesome and fun" place to work though I consider that it's fun till someone looses an eye.

jeremy h
Mar 21, 2012, 04:27 AM
That's what I thought... Didn't really know what to make of it, I think he was trying to make out it's such an "awesome and fun" place to work though I consider that it's fun till someone looses an eye.

Awesome, fun and wacky! Who needs decent wages and a pension when you can have a nerf gun and table football.

Mind you the nerf gun might come in handy when a client next says to you... "I'd just do this job myself if only I had the software on my machine... "

I expect you've all seen this but just in case you haven't - designer v client (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfprIxNfCjk). (Warning - some rude words)

Apple Key
Mar 21, 2012, 08:08 AM
That's what I thought... Didn't really know what to make of it, I think he was trying to make out it's such an "awesome and fun" place to work though I consider that it's fun till someone looses an eye.

It probably was partly to show that the place is fun. But, primarily the interviewee was testing your ability to think quickly on the spot. For example, if you pretended like you were wounded and started falling out of the chair (acting out death), I imagine they would be impressed.

ezekielrage_99
Mar 22, 2012, 04:37 AM
Awesome, fun and wacky! Who needs decent wages and a pension when you can have a nerf gun and table football.

Mind you the nerf gun might come in handy when a client next says to you... "I'd just do this job myself if only I had the software on my machine... "

I expect you've all seen this but just in case you haven't - designer v client (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfprIxNfCjk). (Warning - some rude words)

It probably was partly to show that the place is fun. But, primarily the interviewee was testing your ability to think quickly on the spot. For example, if you pretended like you were wounded and started falling out of the chair (acting out death), I imagine they would be impressed.

We'll I didn't appreciate getting hit by the plastic disc thingys, but I'm a funny guy as well... What he did is classified as assault so I've referred it onto the police, it's going to be hilarious when a friendly police officer turns up at his work tomorrow to serve him the papers :D

Apple Key
Mar 22, 2012, 08:38 AM
We'll I didn't appreciate getting hit by the plastic disc thingys, but I'm a funny guy as well... What he did is classified as assault so I've referred it onto the police, it's going to be hilarious when a friendly police officer turns up at his work tomorrow to serve him the papers :D

LOL. I hope you're serious! :D

He'll probably give you a call letting you know what happened. Can't wait to hear the results!

ezekielrage_99
Mar 22, 2012, 09:16 PM
LOL. I hope you're serious! :D

He'll probably give you a call letting you know what happened. Can't wait to hear the results!

I am serious, I've reported him to the police for assault.

Les Kern
Mar 23, 2012, 05:31 AM
grind versus happiness...
responsibility to family as consumers versus mental health.
learning to deal with the day to day as a means to an end and walling off that life from your new reality is not for amateurs, and is so seldom accomplished.
making the jump, even harder.

As a fellow traveller all I have is more questions... sorry. 25 years for me, and i am broken.
money? not the answer. ask yourself what is the least you can live on. As in LEAST, not ideal least.
willing to lose that house?
car?
will your family support you if you have one?
Gee, if you don't have a family, what the ****** are you waiting for?
save yourself before its too late.

farmboy
Mar 23, 2012, 10:42 AM
I'm not depressed - just fed up.

Can you believe I had to revise a simple web banner graphic (1024 x 100px) 6 times yesterday!!! 6 Times! And the dumb client couldn't tell me the exact dimensions of their banner space. I had to estimate the size by taking a screen cap of their website. So once she hands it over to her IT people to plug in the new graphic, they're going to come back and say, "it doesn't fit." Then I will have to revise it for the 7th time, once someone tells her the true size. This is the kind of insanity I'm talking about - and believe me - this example is on the smallest scale of insanity. I have more stories. I could write a book.

Don't get me started on the time, a few months ago, when I had to revise a sell sheet design 27 times!!!

Have you mentioned that change orders add to the price? This is pretty standard, and is usually effective when you have these pissy clients.

mrTortex
Mar 24, 2012, 05:24 AM
I worked in the visual effects industry for roughly 7 years full time, and another 6 freelance whilst also teaching. In the end I almost had breakdown, at least I found myself sitting a field for a week staring at a tree. I never left the office, sent runners to get everything I needed, and worked crazy crazy hours.

At the time I thought I was loving every second of it, until I saw that tree.

So I know what you are going through, everyone needs a change. I changed from 3D, took a year away form all work and fiddled with code, which is what I do now. So I say, go for it, and good luck. :)

SDAVE
Mar 25, 2012, 02:17 AM
It's important to have something else be part of your life that is far from what you do. Ie, music, baking, reading books.

Also, I highly doubt anyone in this thread has been doing hard core design...now THAT will hunt you down and tear your head off. The client's are not the only issue at hand.

citizenzen
Mar 25, 2012, 11:48 AM
Also, I highly doubt anyone in this thread has been doing hard core design...now THAT will hunt you down and tear your head off. The client's are not the only issue at hand.

No ... my design has been entirely soft-core. :rolleyes:

What exactly qualifies as "hard core design"?

SDAVE
Mar 25, 2012, 12:54 PM
No ... my design has been entirely soft-core. :rolleyes:

What exactly qualifies as "hard core design"?

www.prologue.com

citizenzen
Mar 25, 2012, 01:40 PM
www.prologue.com

I'm not sure I understand.

Are you saying that only brands that receive national attention qualify as "hard-core" design?

SDAVE
Mar 25, 2012, 02:05 PM
I'm not sure I understand.

Are you saying that only brands that receive national attention qualify as "hard-core" design?

Have you worked at these studios as a creative director (designer & animator)?

www.blur.com
www.psyop.tv

If not, you don't know what it takes to be a good designer in the entertainment field. Or better yet in the high end print & interactive field.

Show me your portfolio and I'll tell you if you're good or not. :)
Being good is hard work. Being great is unachievable.

What's funny about this thread is, if you need to vent about being a designer, do that on your own time. We all feel obliged to think about doing other things, and if you constantly want to do other things instead of being a good designer (and improving yourself every chance you get) you probably should have chosen another career. We don't do this for the money. Or the fame.

citizenzen
Mar 25, 2012, 07:58 PM
Have you worked at these studios as a creative director (designer & animator)?

www.blur.com
www.psyop.tv

If not, you don't know what it takes to be a good designer in the entertainment field. Or better yet in the high end print & interactive field.

Show me your portfolio and I'll tell you if you're good or not. :)
Being good is hard work. Being great is unachievable.

What's funny about this thread is, if you need to vent about being a designer, do that on your own time. We all feel obliged to think about doing other things, and if you constantly want to do other things instead of being a good designer (and improving yourself every chance you get) you probably should have chosen another career. We don't do this for the money. Or the fame.

I have not worked in either studio.

And I don't claim to be good. I'm a serviceable designer, working in education. I moved to a small town because I didn't want to live for work ... I wanted to work, to live. As I said earlier in this thread, that unlike the OP I'm very happy with my career.

But the one thing I'll disagree with you on is the notion that you need to be "a player" to be a designer. There are plenty of people with talent and creativity who don't work for a top studio, who don't work 60 plus hours a week.

I personally see it as a sign of mental health to not be so obsessed with ones work.

Your results may vary.

ezekielrage_99
Mar 25, 2012, 10:49 PM
Have you worked at these studios as a creative director (designer & animator)?

www.blur.com
www.psyop.tv

If not, you don't know what it takes to be a good designer in the entertainment field. Or better yet in the high end print & interactive field.


I've worked in broadcast for nearly 10 years, churn factories are not fun... They only reason to work for them is to get a good portfolio fast and work in a more senior level with a smaller company. Worked and still working there are two totally different things BTW.

jeremy h
Mar 26, 2012, 03:22 AM
Also, I highly doubt anyone in this thread has been doing hard core design...

I too doubt that many on this thread work as a designer for a porn film company. (Although you never know... I did once interview a photoshop guy who had a book full of well... um... creative retouching - he very nervously explained it was the only job he could get and he'd learn't a lot - as we did!)

I think one of reasons many thoughtful designers can struggle and burn out is the immaturity of a lot of people in the industry.

NutsNGum
Mar 26, 2012, 03:59 AM
I worked in the visual effects industry for roughly 7 years full time, and another 6 freelance whilst also teaching. In the end I almost had breakdown, at least I found myself sitting a field for a week staring at a tree. I never left the office, sent runners to get everything I needed, and worked crazy crazy hours.

At the time I thought I was loving every second of it, until I saw that tree.

So I know what you are going through, everyone needs a change. I changed from 3D, took a year away form all work and fiddled with code, which is what I do now. So I say, go for it, and good luck. :)

Those moments are sometimes the best.

I'd been working for four years in the same place, doing the same thing every day. One night I had a bit of a "moment" and went for a 5 mile cycle in the dark whilst it was raining, I don't know why, but it totally did the trick. The next week I left work and went back to uni.

I also met my girlfriend the weekend that I left, if I hadn't left I'd wouldn't have been where I was when I met her. And I've been with her since, that was four years ago.

SDAVE
Mar 26, 2012, 06:14 AM
I too doubt that many on this thread work as a designer for a porn film company. (Although you never know... I did once interview a photoshop guy who had a book full of well... um... creative retouching - he very nervously explained it was the only job he could get and he'd learn't a lot - as we did!)

I think one of reasons many thoughtful designers can struggle and burn out is the immaturity of a lot of people in the industry.

What do you know about "the industry"?

ezekielrage_99
Mar 26, 2012, 06:24 AM
I think one of reasons many thoughtful designers can struggle and burn out is the immaturity of a lot of people in the industry.

Well said. Totally agree.

I do agree with your point, after an interview I went for the other day I am seriously considering looking to do something else really not sure what...

I've worked for major broadcasters delivering geospatial graphics, my issue is my portfolio it's too specific around geospatial and I'm seriously bored doing it (and getting close to burnout) and really wont get a look in to any other role despite 10 years broadcast and 4 years military exp...

Though I do agree immaturity is an issue with any industry but hipsters and getting pigeoned holed I also think merits consideration for wanting to "throw it in".

SR2Mac
Mar 27, 2012, 01:28 PM
I don't know if this will sum it up but I too was (and still am from time to time; as you never lose the skills) a graphic designer. I went to college and quit (from an injury), but then couldn't go back as I couldn't afford the fees anymore. But I figured since I didn't like college anyway and this is in reality a trade/profession, I felt that college would have wasted more of my time and money. So I bailed and went back into sales for a few years, but in the back of my head I missed it.

I decided I was going to be a true student, but how was I going to do that since college was such a waste and I didn't want to be a slave to the system. Well, I found some menial positions that eventually landed me at the right place with one of the best graphic designers I could've ever been mentored by (actually 3 of them, but one in particular). But that took perseverance and a lot of prayer. I was amazingly grateful (and still am) for all the help that I received that I was actually able to pay forward with the amazing work that all of us contributed within that department that we worked.

BTW, If you don't know what I meant when I said "SLAVE," then you should watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl7R8xIxzKI

Also, Youtube pulled this same vid off of here where it was originally created and posted by Inflation.us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE&feature=player_embedded

It says:
"College Co..."
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Pepperdine University.

I would highly suggest you watch the vid I found and provided and let you be the judge as to why it was REALLY pulled off. Bottom line people don't like the truth. The reason why anyone would not like their position (by and large) is we work in a "rat-raced" system, and that system is falling apart and we're caught in the middle of that. It's called CHANGE. Now some people are starting to see these changes come and don't like it while others welcome it. Honestly, we have a rough road ahead of us as we're not even close to knowing how that "change" is really going to affect us here in the U.S.. If you still doubt what I'm sharing then you should watch these 3 vids in the order that I have them so you can FULLY understand everything that I'm sharing:

1) Money Banking and the Federal Reserve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZM58dulPE

2) Fall of the Republic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

3) Invisible Empire A New World Order Defined:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO24XmP1c5E&ob=av3e

If you don't want to watch these lengthy docs that show you ACTUAL VIDEO PROOF of what our past and current "leaders" want for all of us and what they want for themselves then, I'll share another video that I think really sums it up in 3+ minutes from (what I believe to be the best comedian - (truth revealer) of all time):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

If you believe that what he's saying (or at least are questioning it), THEN you should watch those 3 vids that I provided to get the FULL PICTURE of what he was saying.

I know this topic was originally posted by ILikeTurtles and he/she was expressing that he/she was "burned out" from that position in that field of work, but this is a very related topic as this (again) will affect all of us here in the near future. I've been talking about this for quite some time and many have made fun of me, and that's fine because things are happening the way I've found out anyway, and it's coming with a vengeance. That's unfortunate and it breaks my heart, because it usually takes most all of us losing what we have to fully understand the appreciation of what was lost. I hope anyone reading this will take time NOT TO BELIEVE what I'm saying but to do something that hasn't been done in a while for some of us… OUR HOMEWORK by watching and doing your own research of what these vids are claiming. THEN you can come to your own conclusions...

I'd like to say that none of what I've found out isn't going to happen, but it has and it's already here, and the lot of us are still "asleep" when it comes to TRUE world issues. Why? Because it goes right back to what I said in the beginning, we work in a "rat-raced" system and that very system has kept us blind from the truth of what's really going on in the background and only a certain few people know what's going on and are actually doing something about it. My hope is, that this will be you... Later... :cool:

Here are three alternative (REAL) news websites that will keep you up to date on what's going on so you can be better prepared on how to handle future events:

http://www.infowars.com

http://www.drudgereport.com

http://www.russiatoday.com

SDAVE
Mar 28, 2012, 10:36 AM
Point is, if you feel uncomfortable being a graphic designer, then you probably shouldn't be doing it as a career. It's an all-in or nothing type of deal.

It's not for everyone. There are other careers with more cushion behind their bottoms.

You have to love what you're doing, regardless of it's downsides.

citizenzen
Mar 28, 2012, 11:00 AM
You have to love what you're doing, regardless of it's downsides.

I don't LOVE being a graphic designer.

It may be the best job I've ever had, but it's still a job.

I don't think you have to love what you do.

But it's helpful not to hate it.

farmboy
Mar 28, 2012, 12:27 PM
I don't LOVE being a graphic designer.

It may be the best job I've ever had, but it's still a job.

I don't think you have to love what you do.

But it's helpful not to hate it.

You're correct. There is a widespread mythology that you have to love your job. You don't; it's just a job. It's not who you are, it's just what you do to earn money, and earning more makes life a little easier, which makes most people happier.

SR2Mac
Mar 28, 2012, 01:19 PM
So I gather no reply on what I posted yesterday... LOL !!! Too funny !!! :D

Well, you'll figure it out, one way or the other when it comes...

citizenzen
Mar 28, 2012, 01:43 PM
So I gather no reply on what I posted yesterday... LOL !!! Too funny !!! :D

tl;dr

Sorry. Short attention span.

SDAVE
Mar 28, 2012, 03:56 PM
I don't LOVE being a graphic designer.

It may be the best job I've ever had, but it's still a job.

I don't think you have to love what you do.

But it's helpful not to hate it.

Then you are not a good designer.

Being a designer is a lifestyle, not a "job".

Switch careers, friend. That's what I recommend.

citizenzen
Mar 28, 2012, 04:34 PM
Then you are not a good designer.

I never said I was good ... merely serviceable.

Being a designer is a lifestyle, not a "job".

Sounds like someone's got an overgrown sense of self. :rolleyes:

Switch careers, friend. That's what I recommend.

And give up the easy work, decent pay, benefits and retirement?

You're gonna have to take it from me.

SR2Mac
Mar 28, 2012, 04:52 PM
As SDAVE said it's a lifestyle. You want to see a seasoned designer, then go here:

www.costelloart.com

Now this was the guy that created the most popular selling font... Papyrus:

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/letraset/papyrus/

and that's just a sample of his work. Just look through the rest of his site. Now that's a person to look for, find and be mentored by. I should know I was mentored by him (and 2 others that had other skills as designers that helped me grow). I eventually took all of what I learned in sales, marketing & graphic design and turned it into something decent for my family and I... So I didn't just stick with just one thing, I combined my efforts to make it more interesting. Something that you might want to go after...

tl;dr
Sorry. Short attention span.

Well citizen,

I hope that you and others here will take the time to look through some of those vids that I provided and look at what's really going on in this world and plan for what's ahead, so you can make some good changes that will take what you can learn to the next level of growth in life so you can have a more successful future... :cool:

SDAVE
Mar 28, 2012, 05:01 PM
I never said I was good ... merely serviceable.



Sounds like someone's got an overgrown sense of self. :rolleyes:



And give up the easy work, decent pay, benefits and retirement?

You're gonna have to take it from me.

Servicable, that's fine. Enjoy your zero contribution to the design field.


As SDAVE said it's a lifestyle. You want to see a seasoned designer, then go here:

www.costelloart.com

Now this was the guy that created the most popular selling font... Papyrus:

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/letraset/papyrus/

and that's just a sample of his work. Just look through the rest of his site. Now that's a person to look for, find and be mentored by. I should know I was mentored by him (and 2 others that had other skills as designers that helped me grow). I eventually took all of what I learned in sales, marketing & graphic design and turned it into something decent for my family and I... So I didn't just stick with just one thing, I combined my efforts to make it more interesting. Something that you might want to go after... Later... :cool:

I appreciate your sense of humor, but attacking Papyrus & Comic Sans are too easy to attack by designers who are just starting out in the field. I hope you're being sarcastic when you mention Chris Costello.

You have to understand what came before you and what will come after you. Contribute something.

Don't you want to be an Erik Spiekermann? Neville Brody? Ian Anderson? El Lissitzky? Lazlo-Moholy-Nagy?

citizenzen
Mar 28, 2012, 05:07 PM
Servicable, that's fine. Enjoy your zero contribution to the design field.

I enjoy my employer's contributions to my wallet. :D

And health & dental ... and retirement ...

SDAVE
Mar 28, 2012, 05:13 PM
I enjoy my employer's contributions to my wallet. :D

And health & dental ... and retirement ...

Like I said, you're only thinking about funds...not bettering yourself as a human being and as a designer.

You won't understand what I'm talking about unless you've been through as much as I have. Not going to argue over the internet. Made my statement.

SR2Mac
Mar 28, 2012, 05:39 PM
I appreciate your sense of humor, but attacking Papyrus & Comic Sans are too easy to attack by designers who are just starting out in the field. I hope you're being sarcastic when you mention Chris Costello.

You have to understand what came before you and what will come after you. Contribute something.

Don't you want to be an Erik Spiekermann? Neville Brody? Ian Anderson? El Lissitzky? Lazlo-Moholy-Nagy?

I'm not "attacking" anyone, just pointing out the amazing skill this person had and what he's contributed not only with the companies he's worked for but what he's done to help mentor people like myself. Plus, he was and still is a good friend... there are others (like who you've mentioned) who are great too to model after. I was pointing out and example of someone who loved what they do and it shows.

What about you? Where's your contribution; designs, websites, etc?... :)

citizenzen
Mar 28, 2012, 05:40 PM
Like I said, you're only thinking about funds...not bettering yourself as a human being and as a designer.

So now you not only know the quality of my design, you know my quality as a human being?

Like I said ... somebody sure has an enlarged sense of self. :rolleyes:

SR2Mac
Mar 28, 2012, 06:47 PM
So now you not only know the quality of my design, you know my quality as a human being?

Like I said ... somebody sure has an enlarged sense of self. :rolleyes:

Hopefully that's not the case, because SDAVE'S "contribution" toward my thoughts about my mentor has the same taste of what you just mentioned. Let's hope not though... :cool:

charliejlr
Mar 29, 2012, 06:37 AM
It has its stresses and strains, but what I would recommend is potentially changing the way you work.

Now, I am only 20 years old, but before you write me off as a kid with a copy of photoshop and the bollocks to call themselves a designer, hear me out...

I found an interest in design at around 12, and learnt to code an incredibly basic website by the time I was 13 (which I sold for 100 to the very happy customer)... I then just carried on learning through books and tutorials, skipping school and not spending any time with friends because that was my passion, whether I knew it or not.

By the time I was 15 I had a freelance contract for a big design agency, which lasted for two years, then at 17 I was hired full time by a design agency in London.

I picked up a whole load of experience in HTML, CSS, jQuery, PHP, MySQL, and WordPress, but I was sick of doing affiliate sites and wanted to build my own businesses around my own ideas.

Long story short, I quit, found an investor, and I'm now doing something much more fun, and interesting, with no pesky clients to worry about.

Moral of the story: A change of scenery every so often enriches the experience of being a designer. Clients throttle your creativity, escape the bottlenecks and do something big.

:D

ezekielrage_99
Mar 29, 2012, 07:17 PM
So now you not only know the quality of my design, you know my quality as a human being?

Like I said ... somebody sure has an enlarged sense of self. :rolleyes:

Petitio Principii, he's assuming the initial points without any of the facts, it's both puerile and circular reasoning. It reminds me of the Oscar Wilde argument regarding a lawyer who has studied to the highest degree... It's plain flawed logic.

I have chosen my career as a profession and pretty happy with it yet some people don't have respect for this (or understanding for this logic). And it sounds with the same with you, you like what you're doing and in a reasonably good position and considering the economic climate I'd rather be employed than in a position a friend who worked for BBH a few years ago (ala GFC).

For me if "mark on the industry" = happiness within the role we'll I created more broadcast weather content than any other designer I know (seriously I worked with over 20 channels world wide delivering graphics), I sat in Paris airport watching my own creations, I turned on a tv in LA and saw my work and I've sat in Dubai Emirates lounge and have seen my work broadcast.

However if I take this to agency side, they just don't get it they see it as a one dimensional portfolio without considering the international exposure and dealing at board level.

Again I have far more respect for someone who has passion for what they do rather than the attitude being where you have worked is the be all and end all to what you've achieved.

Well that's my 2 cents worth...

SR2Mac
Mar 29, 2012, 09:47 PM
Long story short, I quit, found an investor, and I'm now doing something much more fun, and interesting, with no pesky clients to worry about.

Great that you found an investor, but that too can have it's own pressure, because you're still accountable to someone, because at the end of the day it's all about the ROI (Return On Investment). Let's hope you can continue to produce what you enjoy and make him a bundle of cake, so you can enjoy some of it too... :cool:


Moral of the story: A change of scenery every so often enriches the experience of being a designer. Clients throttle your creativity, escape the bottlenecks and do something big.

:D

I agree. The thing that I loved about the group I was working for is that they gave me freedom to leave and free up my mind (that change of scenery) and find other design ideas OUTSIDE of my place of work. So that was very satisfying that they allowed that, before I started my own business...

dreemdazer
Mar 30, 2012, 12:07 AM
I was thinking if you love baking you might try cupcakes. They're all the rage right now and you can be very creative and original with each type of cupcake. You could try using organic and natural ingredients, which a lot of people (including myself) value in their food. :)

citizenzen
Mar 30, 2012, 12:08 PM
Well that's my 2 cents worth...

Well worth more than a mere two cents.

In all walks of life you'll find talented people who didn't reach the pinnacle of their profession and leave an indelible mark on their industry. Does that mean they weren't talented? Does that mean they didn't fulfill some need? That they didn't contribute?

I don't think it does.

It's like saying that nobody who enjoys running is really a runner unless they won an Olympic medal. Nobody who enjoys playing music is really a musician unless they won a Grammy. Nobody who enjoys painting is really a painter unless their work hangs in a museum.

That is simply too elitist a point of view.

ezekielrage_99
Mar 31, 2012, 12:21 AM
Well worth more than a mere two cents.

In all walks of life you'll find talented people who didn't reach the pinnacle of their profession and leave an indelible mark on their industry. Does that mean they weren't talented? Does that mean they didn't fulfill some need? That they didn't contribute?

I don't think it does.

It's like saying that nobody who enjoys running is really a runner unless they won an Olympic medal. Nobody who enjoys playing music is really a musician unless they won a Grammy. Nobody who enjoys painting is really a painter unless their work hangs in a museum.

That is simply too elitist a point of view.

Very true and very well said.

And that what my point as well in a round about way I'm absolutely unemployable in agency/studio land but to some that is seen as a complete failure. Where I do have job security and enjoyment which is more than many people can say.

Where's the issue in enjoying what you're doing?

Chevelle
Mar 31, 2012, 07:31 PM
This thread is very interesting to me. I'm in a similar position, although I'm not a graphic designer at all lol. I went to college for business and since I've graduated (only a year and a half) I've been regretting it ever since. Hate the jobs I've been doing. So I was considering going back to school. In high school I managed an art store and we had a design and printing department. I was always checking out what the graphic designers were doing and it fascinated me. Everybody told me not to go to school for it and that I was crazy for considering it lol. Now I wish I did. So similar to you, I'm thinking about going back to school and making an early change but getting into graphic design rather then out of it.

I am also into baking and culinary arts. Was all set to go to the French Culinary Institute this month but got involved with a restaurant instead so I put my school money I had into that instead.

If you've been in this field for 19 years it won't be easy to make a change, but people have done it and it's definitely possible. It seems like in the culinary field especially people change out of whatever field to get into it. Look at all the books on the market about people doing just that. Michael Ruhlman's books especially will give you a good idea of what the change will be like. I highly recommend them. I say go for it. You'll regret it if you don't. Could you freelance on the side while you work on your baking/pastry career?