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JeDiBoYTJ
Jun 22, 2005, 06:34 PM
Hey, i have a question. My friend and I are looking to transition over to HiDef video editing. So basically, what HardDrive's are sufficient enough to to handle HiDef editing. We were looking at the 500GB/1TB External LaCiE drives at the Apple Store the other day, and I couldnt figure out if they would work well. I dont want to end up purchasing one, then having my first HiDef project freezing up on me.

thanks!



asuidrok
Jun 22, 2005, 06:40 PM
We use the LaCie's here to edit HD and they tend to work pretty well hooked up to Firewire 800. Sometimes they don't capture fast enough but that is rarely a problem. There aren't really too many other affordable options...Right now we have an Xsan system on order, but the smallest configuration of that still runs over $25,000 [Done right that is] I would personally go with the LaCie.

LethalWolfe
Jun 22, 2005, 07:40 PM
Hey, i have a question. My friend and I are looking to transition over to HiDef video editing. So basically, what HardDrive's are sufficient enough to to handle HiDef editing. We were looking at the 500GB/1TB External LaCiE drives at the Apple Store the other day, and I couldnt figure out if they would work well. I dont want to end up purchasing one, then having my first HiDef project freezing up on me.

thanks!

I'm assuming you are moving from MiniDV to HDV? If so, your storage solutions don't need to change 'cause HDV has the same data as MiniDV.

If you are looking at a bigger version of HD (such as DVCProHD or HDCAM) then things are going to get real expensive real quick (as exampled in the post above me).

Lethal

Espnetboy3
Jun 22, 2005, 08:18 PM
Jedi what is this for. Home use, do you guys just shoot home indy movies or are you working for a company or doing serious freelance work for broadcasting?

JeDiBoYTJ
Jun 23, 2005, 07:36 AM
This switch is more for a hobby/indy movie use. We have been wanting to experiment with HiDef for a while now, and we want to shoot our next feature on HiDef. We are just a very small company now, cant afford an XSan system or anything like that at the moment (of course, its what we want, lol).

thanks for the replys, but i have another similar question. lets say we dont want to do LaCie drives... what would be the best RAID solution, cheapest and such?

thanks again :)

MovieCutter
Jun 23, 2005, 09:52 AM
As a serious freelance editor and videographer, I'm not touching HD independently for another year at least. Why? First off, there isn't a high demand for it, not to mention there are only three ways to distribute it: Film for the big screen, broadcast, or hooking up your HD camera to an HDTV. I would steer clear of HDV and wait another year until Blu-Ray/HD-DVD hits the market and is adopted...camera prices will come down dramatically, not to mention that you'll actually be able to DISTRIBUTE your work.

Now that's not to say HD compressed down to SD doesn't look good...I'm working on a television special for standard def broadcast right now using HD footage and it looks better than normal DV, but I don't think it's worth a starting price tag of $3.5k.

Lacero
Jun 23, 2005, 10:02 AM
As a serious freelance editor and videographer, I'm not touching HD independently for another year at least.You make absolutely no sense. Shooting HD for your serious productions mean you are future-proofing it for when there is a demand for HDTV. Guess what? There is already a demand for HDTV, otherwise, why else do you think companies are introducing HD DVDs, HDTV sets, Apple is going HD for their pro apps. It's here already. To say you won't shoot HD because the demand is not their is simply ridiculous for someone who self-professes to be a serious editor and videographer.

TheMonarch
Jun 23, 2005, 01:48 PM
Damn. Harsh... But true

LethalWolfe
Jun 23, 2005, 02:16 PM
You make absolutely no sense. Shooting HD for your serious productions mean you are future-proofing it for when there is a demand for HDTV. Guess what? There is already a demand for HDTV, otherwise, why else do you think companies are introducing HD DVDs, HDTV sets, Apple is going HD for their pro apps. It's here already. To say you won't shoot HD because the demand is not their is simply ridiculous for someone who self-professes to be a serious editor and videographer.

Moviecutter makes complete sense. The hype of HD is much bigger than the reality of HD. Looking at the field of video production as a whole there really isn't a very big sector of the industry that needs to be shooting HD let alone can afford to upgrade to an entire HD workflow. If enough of your client base is asking for HD then it might be time for you/your company to start getting into HD. But there is no reason, professionally speaking, to get into HD just so you can say, "Hey, we do HD."

As far as "future proofing" goes, it all depends on your content and your clients. Will an infomercial, commercial, music video, corporate/industrial video, event video, or a news story need to be future proofed? Probably not. You also have to look at the cost/benefit angle. Will moving to HD bring in enough new revenue to justify the cost? Will my current clients pay more for HD? How many new clients will I attract w/HD?

The demand for HD on the consumer level is low. HDTV aren't exactly flying off shelves. I wouldn't call Voom a raging success. Sony and Co. are trying to create a demand for HD where one doesn't naturally exist (HD DVDs, Sony's low end HDV cameras, etc.,.).

The company I work for now produces behind-the-scenes content for big budget movies and TV shows, and I dare say that 99% of our work is shot, cut, and delivered SD. A couple projects are shot HD but delivered SD, and 2 projects have been shot HD and delivered both HD and SD.

Going back to the first thing I said, moving to HD because there is a legit demand from your clients for HD is one thing. But moving to HD just to move to HD isn't a good business call, IMO.


Lethal

MovieCutter
Jun 25, 2005, 09:51 PM
You make absolutely no sense. Shooting HD for your serious productions mean you are future-proofing it for when there is a demand for HDTV. Guess what? There is already a demand for HDTV, otherwise, why else do you think companies are introducing HD DVDs, HDTV sets, Apple is going HD for their pro apps. It's here already. To say you won't shoot HD because the demand is not their is simply ridiculous for someone who self-professes to be a serious editor and videographer.

Why would I spend $3700 on a consumer grade HDV camera, when in a year, when HD-DVD/Blu-Ray hits the marketplace and there is actually some demand, I'll be able to get a BETTER grade camera for a little bit more. I don't know who YOUR clients are, but none of mine even mention wanting to go to HD. I have Apple's latest Final Cut Studio suite and I can't wait to use the true HD editing capability.


Don't get me wrong, I love HD. I edit HD for PBS, and it is beautiful, but for me as a freelancer...it would be stupid to spend that kind of money on an HD system when NONE of my clients demand it or even ask for it, mainly because most of them are smart enough that it isn't worth the extra cost for their purposes. HD right now is only of any sense if you are going to be transferring it to film for projection or if you are using it for broadcast on an HD system, other than that...it's a gimmick...at least for now.

Espnetboy3
Jun 25, 2005, 11:07 PM
I have been trying to preach this for months now. 2006 was the cutoff in which they wanted majority of people to be in the hidef era. They have just pushed that back to 2010 because its just not happening fast enough. People arent making the switch. For instance look at the io digital cable. Those came out about 4 years ago and they said in a year mostly everyone will have them. Well just about 60 percent of my friends and family still use analog and or there satalite which they have had for the past 10 years.

LethalWolfe
Jun 26, 2005, 12:10 AM
I have been trying to preach this for months now. 2006 was the cutoff in which they wanted majority of people to be in the hidef era. They have just pushed that back to 2010 because its just not happening fast enough. People arent making the switch. For instance look at the io digital cable. Those came out about 4 years ago and they said in a year mostly everyone will have them. Well just about 60 percent of my friends and family still use analog and or there satalite which they have had for the past 10 years.


The switch has to be to digital, not specifically HD, but w/the buzz HD has it became the defacto standard.



Lethal

LethalWolfe
Jun 26, 2005, 12:31 AM
JeDiBoYTJ,

Trying to get this back OT...

I don't know your background or current situation, but if you are going to shoot a movie that WILL end up getting xfered to film then HD should be a consideration. I would look at JVC's new HDV camera though, instead of Sony's, 'cause the JVC will do 24p.

Something else to consider (again, I don't know what you do & don't have), is spending the money on filters/lenses/adaptors for your current camera, audio equipment (good mic & boom pole), lights/lighting equipment, or other camera equipment (dolly & track, jib arm, steady-cam type device). I worked some guys on a short and they had a good, homemade dolly & track and jib. In Bruce Campbell's book "If Chins Could Kill" he talks about a lot of the homemade camera rigs used in "Evil Dead."


Lethal


EDIT: About storage, what kind of HD are you looking to use? HDV, DVCPro50, HDCAM...? As the storage requirements for each can be different.

JeDiBoYTJ
Jun 29, 2005, 03:20 PM
JeDiBoYTJ,

Trying to get this back OT...

I don't know your background or current situation, but if you are going to shoot a movie that WILL end up getting xfered to film then HD should be a consideration. I would look at JVC's new HDV camera though, instead of Sony's, 'cause the JVC will do 24p.

Something else to consider (again, I don't know what you do & don't have), is spending the money on filters/lenses/adaptors for your current camera, audio equipment (good mic & boom pole), lights/lighting equipment, or other camera equipment (dolly & track, jib arm, steady-cam type device). I worked some guys on a short and they had a good, homemade dolly & track and jib. In Bruce Campbell's book "If Chins Could Kill" he talks about a lot of the homemade camera rigs used in "Evil Dead."


Lethal


EDIT: About storage, what kind of HD are you looking to use? HDV, DVCPro50, HDCAM...? As the storage requirements for each can be different.

At the moment, we (as a company) dont really have a camera. I have a consumer based sony handheld DV cam (that I use for shooting documentaries) , and one of my friends has a Sony PD-150. And for our latest movie, we are shooing it using a Panasonic DVX-100 24P... but production was halted due to the camera becoming stolen on the last night of shooting (it was lent to us by a good friend out ours, we since have a new one, but havnt completed the film just yet).

My friend is looking to buy a camera now, but he doesnt quite see the point in purchasing a DV camera, when HD cameras are now coming down the price, and the quality is nearly twice as good.

and we arnt really looking toward getting an HDV camera, although we might (because of the price being cheaper and all). What are the storage requirements for HDCAM, since I believe that is what my friend is leaning towards

LethalWolfe
Jun 29, 2005, 07:20 PM
... but production was halted due to the camera becoming stolen on the last night of shooting...

Oh, that sux.


... and we arnt really looking toward getting an HDV camera, although we might (because of the price being cheaper and all). What are the storage requirements for HDCAM, since I believe that is what my friend is leaning towards

Check out hdforindies.com (http://www.hdforindies.com). They have a FAQ (link is on the upper right side of the screen) that, among other things, talks about basic workflow for various HD formats.

But, HDCAM, dude, yer lookin' at a lot of money. The camera alone (no lens, nothing) is 'round 100k. A deck is, IIRC, 'round 85k+ ('bout 25k for a playback only deck intended just to screen tapes). You'll need an HD capture card, HD monitor, and some big @ss storage solution.

Even if you shoot HD, have it xfered to DV for post, then go to a post house for an HD online yer still lookin' at a very nice chunk of change.


Lethal

casca
Jul 16, 2005, 04:44 PM
Hey, i have a question. My friend and I are looking to transition over to HiDef video editing. So basically, what HardDrive's are sufficient enough to to handle HiDef editing. We were looking at the 500GB/1TB External LaCiE drives at the Apple Store the other day, and I couldnt figure out if they would work well. I dont want to end up purchasing one, then having my first HiDef project freezing up on me.

thanks!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7531612105&category=21166&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

Prolly the nicest 3.2 TERABYTE 4 Gig Fibre Box I've seen for less than 7K. Holy crud Batman :)

Bob Dobbs
Jul 28, 2005, 04:58 PM
Build a SATA raid... sata drives are cheap - I got a bunch of Seagate 400 gig drives for $255 each - put them in a SATA box - like Macgurus burly box
http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/satakits.php
get a SATA card - you are done. For a 3 drive box, the card and the 3 drives you are looking at about $1000 - for 1200 gig - fast enough to do DVCPro HD.