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View Full Version : Are You Kidding Me? Check Out This Craigslist Ad for 16 GB iPad 3 --$850!




icydog
Mar 12, 2012, 05:11 PM
$850 for an iPad 3 16GB WITHOUT 3G

Are you kidding me?

http://cnj.craigslist.org/ele/2897951573.html



ZBoater
Mar 12, 2012, 05:12 PM
How bad do you REALLY want it? :rolleyes:

icydog
Mar 12, 2012, 05:14 PM
How bad do you REALLY want it? :rolleyes:

Notice it's being sold in Princeton where the per capita income is one of the highest in the USA.

elpmas
Mar 12, 2012, 05:15 PM
Smart :)

tstarks33
Mar 12, 2012, 05:16 PM
You'd be surprised at how much things sell for on craigslist. The markup isn't that crazy, really. I sold a 32 gig wifi last year during the ipad 2 craze for $900.

Rideherhard
Mar 12, 2012, 05:18 PM
I really can't believe people pay this much more for something they can have for about half the price if they wait 2 weeks...

homeboy
Mar 12, 2012, 05:18 PM
You'd be surprised at how much things sell for on craigslist. The markup isn't that crazy, really. I sold a 32 gig wifi last year during the ipad 2 craze for $900.

I'm not a scalper but statements like that make me tingle. :p


FYI iPad 3 scalpers in London are already at it. Check these ads out:

http://www.gumtree.com/cgi-bin/list_postings.pl?search_terms=ipad+3&search_location=United+Kingdom&ubercat=1

rdowns
Mar 12, 2012, 05:21 PM
Notice it's being sold in Princeton where the per capita income is one of the highest in the USA.

Where would you expect them to list an $850 iPad, Camden?

Rideherhard
Mar 12, 2012, 05:24 PM
What's worse is that on ebay their selling refurbish iPads 2 16gb wifi models for $525CDN when Apple sells them for $369CDN or new for $419CDN.

Storrow
Mar 12, 2012, 05:25 PM
I also have a 3rd gen (32 gig wifi) on craigslist right now, but I just wrote give me an offer.

Have had zero offers so far

QuarterSwede
Mar 12, 2012, 05:26 PM
I really can't believe people pay this much more for something they can have for about half the price if they wait 2 weeks...
Patience is a virtue for a reason. ;)

maximus96
Mar 12, 2012, 05:31 PM
why post so early on craigslist? the people that respond now will probably flake on you by friday morning as more people dump theirs for sale...

doboy
Mar 12, 2012, 05:49 PM
You'd be surprised at how much things sell for on craigslist. The markup isn't that crazy, really. I sold a 32 gig wifi last year during the ipad 2 craze for $900.

For that price, I'll be willing to sell my new 32 GB en route. :p

tstarks33
Mar 12, 2012, 06:05 PM
For that price, I'll be willing to sell my new 32 GB en route. :p

It's the truth... I plan on keeping my ipad but if they are selling for $300 above cost, then I'm willing to sell it and wait 3 weeks to get a new one. I can't just ignore $300!

rgr555
Mar 12, 2012, 06:07 PM
I really can't believe people pay this much more for something they can have for about half the price if they wait 2 weeks...

If you live in a $4 million apartment in China/HK/etc. that doesn't really matter

----------

I also have a 3rd gen (32 gig wifi) on craigslist right now, but I just wrote give me an offer.

Have had zero offers so far

keep us posted

preston181
Mar 12, 2012, 06:12 PM
Craig's List is mostly full of mouth-breathers, especially when it comes to overpriced tech items. But, what's worse, is that the person will probably sell it.

MR1324
Mar 12, 2012, 06:18 PM
woohoo might be able to get a free ipad 3 if prices stay this high

doboy
Mar 12, 2012, 06:20 PM
It's the truth... I plan on keeping my ipad but if they are selling for $300 above cost, then I'm willing to sell it and wait 3 weeks to get a new one. I can't just ignore $300!

especially when I still have my iPad 1 & 2. I wouldn't mind upgrading to new 64 GB + 4G.

badpinoy
Mar 12, 2012, 06:34 PM
i was planning on selling on of my iPads. Look at this guy selling it before it even gets here on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-Order-confirmed-NEW-iPad-3rd-Gen-16GB-WiFi-WHITE-Worldwide-Shipping-/130661259729?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item1e6c0499d1#ht_2951wt_279

another guy locally selling his iPad
http://elpaso.en.craigslist.org/ele/2895912564.html

preston181
Mar 12, 2012, 06:41 PM
i was planning on selling on of my iPads. Look at this guy selling it before it even gets here on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-Order-confirmed-NEW-iPad-3rd-Gen-16GB-WiFi-WHITE-Worldwide-Shipping-/130661259729?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item1e6c0499d1#ht_2951wt_279

another guy locally selling his iPad
http://elpaso.en.craigslist.org/ele/2895912564.html


The eBay guy already has 6 bids, with a high bid of $650, for a 16GB model, really?!

badpinoy
Mar 12, 2012, 06:43 PM
The eBay guy already has 6 bids, with a high bid of $650, for a 16GB model, really?!

the thing that sucks about ebay is the paypal fees AND shipping. i just posted my white iPad 64 gig LTE - Verizon on craislist for $1500. Let's us see how many people will bite.

EIGHTYTHREE
Mar 12, 2012, 06:47 PM
I plan on selling my 2nd one I bought. Originally it was for my wife but she's content of keeping her iPad 2. So Im gonna sell it, but if the money isn't right, I'll just return it for a full refund. Both mine are being shipped FEDEX so since I work for them, I will more than like have access to it early. Im gonna post it on CL a day early that I have iPad 3 in-hand and see who wants it early for $$$, if not I will just return it.....But i have a feeling once my wife sees mine, she is gonna wanna keep her new one after all...Stay tuned!

P.S.: OP, $850 is a realistic price he will prob get for that 16GB. Some people have enough money to where they don't care about over paying on prices. Im not saying its the smartest thing but if you have the cash it doesn't matter. For the last 12 years i have been paying $500-$750 for unlocked smartphones, so to me its not unrealistic for an iPad for$850...You should see how much unlocked iPhones go for when they 1st are announced. A 16GB new iPad will sell for $850, of course thats contingent on selling at the right time. The best thing about america is its a free market and the market will determine the price. No one is putting a gun to any buyers head forcing them to pay premium.

Buildbright
Mar 12, 2012, 06:48 PM
The eBay guy already has 6 bids, with a high bid of $650, for a 16GB model, really?!

I have already seen them on ebay sell for more. Check these babbies out. $4500 for three, $1600 for one. 16GB Wifi $900 Local Pick Up Only!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-units-iPad-3rd-Generation-64GB-Wi-Fi-4G-White-Guaranteed-Presale-Delivery-/290680702991?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item43adeb880f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-The-new-iPad-4G-LTE-3rd-Gen-HD-64GB-Verizon-Black-FEDEX-Ships-3-16-/130661263755?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item1e6c04a98b

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-iPad-3rd-Generation-16GB-Wi-Fi-9-7in-White-Latest-Model-/170800865429?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item27c4866095

NameUndecided
Mar 12, 2012, 07:04 PM
I'm probably going to wait a month or more for mine, but there's just a tinge of a craving to go out and try to buy one at the Apple store on Friday for the chance that I could make $100 or more through Craigslist. It's just that it would make me feel… gross, and waiting in line for an iPad that I have it in mind to scalp would feel awfully hollow.

But kudos (and eww) to the people who can do that and feel okay about it!

murdercitydevil
Mar 12, 2012, 07:41 PM
I'm probably going to wait a month or more for mine, but there's just a tinge of a craving to go out and try to buy one at the Apple store on Friday for the chance that I could make $100 or more through Craigslist. It's just that it would make me feel… gross, and waiting in line for an iPad that I have it in mind to scalp would feel awfully hollow.

But kudos (and eww) to the people who can do that and feel okay about it!

I like you. You're one of the good ones. And nice sig.

iosuser
Mar 12, 2012, 07:51 PM
i was planning on selling on of my iPads. Look at this guy selling it before it even gets here on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-Order-confirmed-NEW-iPad-3rd-Gen-16GB-WiFi-WHITE-Worldwide-Shipping-/130661259729?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item1e6c0499d1#ht_2951wt_279

another guy locally selling his iPad
http://elpaso.en.craigslist.org/ele/2895912564.html

Not everyone wins on Ebay. Lookup 320863832979. 32GB wifi SOLD for $650 with free priority shipping, minus ebay and paypal fees LOL. Another sold for $700 by the same guy. Probably one of the very few losers :p

OSMac
Mar 12, 2012, 08:01 PM
Wow people paying $1600 for a LTE iPad 3 on eBay as posted a few posts above,
if those are the prices mine is for sale too :)

It was a long time buyer too, wow and double wow.

dagamer34
Mar 12, 2012, 08:58 PM
There's a saner way to track deliveries, you know: Delivery Status Touch (http://junecloud.com/software/iphone/delivery-status-touch.html)

You'll also get push notifications for when your iPad has been delivered so you can know if you're at work/school, and that's far more important.

thekev
Mar 12, 2012, 09:08 PM
If people stop paying stupid amounts for something they don't rally need, the scalpers go away.

santaliqueur
Mar 12, 2012, 09:24 PM
If people stop paying stupid amounts for something they don't rally need, the scalpers go away.

You just don't understand basic economics. The increased prices are there because there is increased demand and limited supply. The scalpers are there because the demand is there. Once the demand dies down, the scalpers lose their ability to obtain a huge markup.

The people who buy popular devices and attempt to sell them for a profit are not bad people. All of us have the same chance to do what they are doing. Just because you didn't think to do it doesn't make them bad people. They have something that someone will pay a certain price for, nobody is being forced to do anything. Scalpers, on the basic level, are not as bad as so many of you claim.

However, the companies who buy entire blocks of concert tickets (with a 300% markup) are in an entirely different category. I don't care for this at all. This would be like a huge company buying all of the 64GB iPads and marking them up to $1500 because nobody else has them. But people buying 2 iPads and selling 1 or 2 of them are just clever people making a few bucks.

Richmond1958
Mar 12, 2012, 09:30 PM
If people stop paying stupid amounts for something they don't rally need, the scalpers go away.

But, by definition, they do want them. The question then becomes how much they are willing to pay in a premium to get it earlier than they otherwise would be able to.

I think that things are gong to remain pretty much in flux until March 16th ... if there are lines like there were for the iPad2, and lots of people leaving empty-handed, there will be another big aftermarket. Just dont know if that will be the case with the preorders. On the other hand, if there are units available over the weekend at the stores, I think the aftermarket will dry up fast in the US, but I really doubt that's going to be the case.

thekev
Mar 12, 2012, 10:45 PM
You just don't understand basic economics. The increased prices are there because there is increased demand and limited supply. The scalpers are there because the demand is there. Once the demand dies down, the scalpers lose their ability to obtain a huge markup.

The people who buy popular devices and attempt to sell them for a profit are not bad people. All of us have the same chance to do what they are doing. Just because you didn't think to do it doesn't make them bad people. They have something that someone will pay a certain price for, nobody is being forced to do anything. Scalpers, on the basic level, are not as bad as so many of you claim.

However, the companies who buy entire blocks of concert tickets (with a 300% markup) are in an entirely different category. I don't care for this at all. This would be like a huge company buying all of the 64GB iPads and marking them up to $1500 because nobody else has them. But people buying 2 iPads and selling 1 or 2 of them are just clever people making a few bucks.

You make way too many assumptions about my level of comprehension on economics, and your statement declares very little about your own. I said that these only exist because others enable such behavior over their desire for the latest electronics. It still isn't technically legal given that these guys are buying for profit, yet they do not collect sales tax (where appropriate) or declare such sales as taxable income. I would suggest that people who feel the need to pay above retail just to have the ipad a few days earlier are way too obsessed with a computing device. No one has a need for the latest one. If they needed it for something work related, they'd wait for any initial bug fixes before buying.

But, by definition, they do want them. The question then becomes how much they are willing to pay in a premium to get it earlier than they otherwise would be able to.

I think that things are gong to remain pretty much in flux until March 16th ... if there are lines like there were for the iPad2, and lots of people leaving empty-handed, there will be another big aftermarket. Just dont know if that will be the case with the preorders. On the other hand, if there are units available over the weekend at the stores, I think the aftermarket will dry up fast in the US, but I really doubt that's going to be the case.

This is one of my issues. They deny someone else in the same line to sell the device in a manner which isn't completely legal. Note my other statement which breaks this down. You guys can downrate me all you like :p. Personally I think Apple doesn't care about everyone receiving one right away. They like hype, and they release the device when they have a comfortable number to ship. If they wished to, they could push back the release date until more are available, but this wouldn't feed the hype around the device. I've used it. It's a cool device, but I'd never stand in line for hours to buy one.

Buildbright
Mar 12, 2012, 11:22 PM
You make way too many assumptions about my level of comprehension on economics, and your statement declares very little about your own. I said that these only exist because others enable such behavior over their desire for the latest electronics. It still isn't technically legal given that these guys are buying for profit, yet they do not collect sales tax (where appropriate) or declare such sales as taxable income. I would suggest that people who feel the need to pay above retail just to have the ipad a few days earlier are way too obsessed with a computing device. No one has a need for the latest one. If they needed it for something work related, they'd wait for any initial bug fixes before buying.



This is one of my issues. They deny someone else in the same line to sell the device in a manner which isn't completely legal. Note my other statement which breaks this down. You guys can downrate me all you like :p. Personally I think Apple doesn't care about everyone receiving one right away. They like hype, and they release the device when they have a comfortable number to ship. If they wished to, they could push back the release date until more are available, but this wouldn't feed the hype around the device. I've used it. It's a cool device, but I'd never stand in line for hours to buy one.

It is completely legal! If you buy from a retailer and you pay sales tax you do not have to pay twice that is double taxation. If you purchased the items for resale with a valid sales tax certificate the seller would be responsible to collect sales tax. And only if the item was shipped to the state they are located. Also some states do not charge sales tax.

Reselling any item for profit or loss is completely legal. Now if you are a business and buying an iPad 3 as such you are required to report any earnings. But an individual is allowed as a hobby to sell items and make money. They must pay taxes on earnings once they reach a certain threshold. I recommend anyone doing so to research the matter or contact an accountant.

Please remember time is money. Certain people in the world are successful and work very hard to be such. A couple of hours to them can be worth the price of three iPad 3’s depending on what time of the day it is or year. These people find it easier and cheaper to purchase one off eBay at their leisure. Paying several hundred dollars more is a convenience fee to them. Also they know some poor guy is trying to make a couple extra bucks why not throw him a bone for the hard work of getting me my iPad. :apple:

thekev
Mar 12, 2012, 11:57 PM
It is completely legal! If you buy from a retailer and you pay sales tax you do not have to pay twice that is double taxation. If you purchased the items for resale with a valid sales tax certificate the seller would be responsible to collect sales tax. And only if the item was shipped to the state they are located. Also some states do not charge sales tax.

Reselling any item for profit or loss is completely legal. Now if you are a business and buying an iPad 3 as such you are required to report any earnings. But an individual is allowed as a hobby to sell items and make money. They must pay taxes on earnings once they reach a certain threshold. I recommend anyone doing so to research the matter or contact an accountant.



Your facts are actually off here. They marked it up, and paid sales tax on the original amount. Legally with a reseller's certificate you could purchase items with sales tax waived as it would then be charged to the final purchaser. Your post was well thought out, but you're simply incorrect on these details because you most likely haven't had to deal with them directly. I did mention where appropriate. This covers the local laws in that regard of how much and where applicable. Further it's still income. Some people mention making thousands off of it. That is most likely unreported income. Note that I'm not arguing whether this is tolerated. I'm telling you it's not technically legal, and your lack of comprehension doesn't change that. It only irritates me when people who don't understand this stuff pretend as if they do. Edit: either that or you're assuming I don't understand and giving a grossly oversimplified explanation.

GrindedDown
Mar 13, 2012, 12:10 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

What would be a fair price to sell a 16gb iPad on launch day on Craigslist once the stores sell out without it being unbelievably absurd? (I don't even think the 850 is that unreasonable in all honesty$

MR1324
Mar 13, 2012, 12:11 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

What would be a fair price to sell a 16gb iPad on launch day on Craigslist once the stores sell out without it being unbelievably absurd? (I don't even think the 850 is that unreasonable in all honesty$

a fair price is what ever someone is willing to pay for it, simple as that. on launch day, look through your local craigslist for comparables and price accordingly.

rever3nce
Mar 13, 2012, 12:13 AM
AKA show up with $825 and get jacked!! haha :p

Nikos
Mar 13, 2012, 12:16 AM
Never planned on selling mine, and it would be hard to but, if they are going for significantly more on craigslist, I might have to do it and wait a few weeks. I could save the extra cash or put it towards a better model, as the 32gb that I ordered isn't even large enough to hold my music.

iKIKO
Mar 13, 2012, 12:19 AM
$850 for an iPad 3 16GB WITHOUT 3G

Are you kidding me?

http://cnj.craigslist.org/ele/2897951573.html


uuu, you should check here in mexico, i hate scalpers, trying to take advantage of the should out rage.

here they charge for a 64g 4g around $ 1400 the son of a $%&% !!!

Buildbright
Mar 13, 2012, 01:47 AM
Your facts are actually off here. They marked it up, and paid sales tax on the original amount. Legally with a reseller's certificate you could purchase items with sales tax waived as it would then be charged to the final purchaser. Your post was well thought out, but you're simply incorrect on these details because you most likely haven't had to deal with them directly. I did mention where appropriate. This covers the local laws in that regard of how much and where applicable. Further it's still income. Some people mention making thousands off of it. That is most likely unreported income. Note that I'm not arguing whether this is tolerated. I'm telling you it's not technically legal, and your lack of comprehension doesn't change that. It only irritates me when people who don't understand this stuff pretend as if they do. Edit: either that or you're assuming I don't understand and giving a grossly oversimplified explanation.

I am going to try to explain this one more time as you seem to be missing my points.

Again marking up a product as a non-business (without a resale cert) is no way governed by State or Federal sales tax. Once you pay sales tax you are not required to pay it again. Example 1: You sell Bob your tv and lose $50 on the value. You do not charge bob sales tax (illegal). Example 2: You sell Bob a limited edition baseball card you got in a box set you purchased. You do not charge sales tax over the amount you paid.

Not only is it wrong to charge Bob sales tax it's illegal to charge sales tax! Yes unless you are registered to "collect" sales it is illegal to do so because you can not report/pay it to the governing body.

My employees collect sales tax everyday and my companies report/pay sales taxes quarterly and monthly. I also have detailed meetings with my accountant, and attorney bi-monthly to stay up to date. In business you must be proactive because of new and ever-changing regulations.

As for failing to report additional income that is a different story altogether. Income over a certain amount should be reported but some is not required to be reported. Once again please see a qualified CPA with questions. If you make thousands you should report it but assuming someone is not paying without facts is slander.

If you need more details or do not believe me you are welcome to check with the IRS, your State / Local Government, and an attorney / accountant. PLEASE I am writing this to show people do not read forums or believe what you see online as fact when it comes to State/Federal laws or regulations. Seek out a qualified individual who can give you helpful advice based on your situation.

-GodSpeed

thekev
Mar 13, 2012, 02:42 AM
If you need more details or do not believe me you are welcome to check with the IRS, your State / Local Government, and an attorney / accountant. PLEASE I am writing this to show people do not read forums or believe what you see online as fact when it comes to State/Federal laws or regulations. Seek out a qualified individual who can give you helpful advice based on your situation.

-GodSpeed

I deal with a CPA just a few times a year and use the California board of equalization for further reference, although they are often quite vague :mad:.

In cases of short terms use they have a setup for that, but I can't find the link at the moment. At least in California there is a temporary reseller's permit for items. Again this is for something you intend to resell without ever having used it. You don't intend to take it out of the box or do anything with it other than resell it for profit. There are a bit of details in the forms, and I've gone over this with them in the past, but I can't find a "good" source of reference on their site at the moment (I did look, and I try to avoid referencing anything vague). Further it's not slander as it wasn't directed at anyone specific :p. I'll admit California is a bit different from some other parts of the country. Also you're correct that it's illegal to collect sales tax without a permit. I never suggested otherwise unless you felt I left out enough detail to verify this.

Xelnaga15
Mar 13, 2012, 03:03 AM
It's a front, all you'll get is an iPad box full of weed.

iHeartsteve
Mar 13, 2012, 03:14 AM
I like you. You're one of the good ones. And nice sig.

I second that. It's just plain old rude and unethically for people to take away an ipad from a true apple fan just to make $100. Then the ones who get away with buying 20?!:eek: Ridiculous

----------

I am going to try to explain this one more time as you seem to be missing my points.

Again marking up a product as a non-business (without a resale cert) is no way governed by State or Federal sales tax. Once you pay sales tax you are not required to pay it again. Example 1: You sell Bob your tv and lose $50 on the value. You do not charge bob sales tax (illegal). Example 2: You sell Bob a limited edition baseball card you got in a box set you purchased. You do not charge sales tax over the amount you paid.

Not only is it wrong to charge Bob sales tax it's illegal to charge sales tax! Yes unless you are registered to "collect" sales it is illegal to do so because you can not report/pay it to the governing body.

My employees collect sales tax everyday and my companies report/pay sales taxes quarterly and monthly. I also have detailed meetings with my accountant, and attorney bi-monthly to stay up to date. In business you must be proactive because of new and ever-changing regulations.

As for failing to report additional income that is a different story altogether. Income over a certain amount should be reported but some is not required to be reported. Once again please see a qualified CPA with questions. If you make thousands you should report it but assuming someone is not paying without facts is slander.

If you need more details or do not believe me you are welcome to check with the IRS, your State / Local Government, and an attorney / accountant. PLEASE I am writing this to show people do not read forums or believe what you see online as fact when it comes to State/Federal laws or regulations. Seek out a qualified individual who can give you helpful advice based on your situation.

-GodSpeed

I second this. It makes NO SENSE to charge 'BOB' sales tax when you (reseller of the ipad) when 1. you're not a licensed reseller of apple 2. you don't own a business and are not supposed to be reselling this item in the first place BUT then you decided to charge sales tax????!!:eek:

Buildbright
Mar 13, 2012, 03:36 AM
I deal with a CPA just a few times a year and use the California board of equalization for further reference, although they are often quite vague :mad:.

In cases of short terms use they have a setup for that, but I can't find the link at the moment. At least in California there is a temporary reseller's permit for items. Again this is for something you intend to resell without ever having used it. You don't intend to take it out of the box or do anything with it other than resell it for profit. There are a bit of details in the forms, and I've gone over this with them in the past, but I can't find a "good" source of reference on their site at the moment (I did look, and I try to avoid referencing anything vague). Further it's not slander as it wasn't directed at anyone specific :p. I'll admit California is a bit different from some other parts of the country. Also you're correct that it's illegal to collect sales tax without a permit. I never suggested otherwise unless you felt I left out enough detail to verify this.

I have the link right here.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/boe400spa.pdf

This is the one that would be relevant to the occasional sellers.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/boe410d.pdf

"Occasional sellers are usually people who are not required to hold a seller’s permit because they will not be making a series of qualifying sales. A person who has cleared their garage of used items accumulated for their own use and who sells only those items would usually qualify as an occasional seller, provided they make sales no more than twice in a 12-month period."

Sales do not mean do not mean individual items in general. Sales have a broader definition of which can be a time period, a place, a group of items, and more.

-GodSpeed

MS2083
Mar 13, 2012, 04:03 AM
I'm selling one of my Pre-Ordered White 32GB Wifi for $900.00 on Craigslist.. did the samething last March!

you need to realize that there are people out there who are willing to shell out extra $$$ for a Brand New iPad

santaliqueur
Mar 13, 2012, 12:14 PM
You make way too many assumptions about my level of comprehension on economics, and your statement declares very little about your own. I said that these only exist because others enable such behavior over their desire for the latest electronics. It still isn't technically legal given that these guys are buying for profit, yet they do not collect sales tax (where appropriate) or declare such sales as taxable income. I would suggest that people who feel the need to pay above retail just to have the ipad a few days earlier are way too obsessed with a computing device. No one has a need for the latest one. If they needed it for something work related, they'd wait for any initial bug fixes before buying.

This is one of my issues. They deny someone else in the same line to sell the device in a manner which isn't completely legal. Note my other statement which breaks this down. You guys can downrate me all you like :p. Personally I think Apple doesn't care about everyone receiving one right away. They like hype, and they release the device when they have a comfortable number to ship. If they wished to, they could push back the release date until more are available, but this wouldn't feed the hype around the device. I've used it. It's a cool device, but I'd never stand in line for hours to buy one.

You are also making assumptions as well. You assume the seller is not paying sales tax on the income. Maybe you think lots of people wouldn't bother to report that income (I'd probably agree with you that very few people do), but still, you don't know how many do.

However, is taxes really the issue that people hate resellers? The overwhelming majority of posts complain about the morality of reselling. Denying an Apple fan the "right" to have an iPad, and other nonsense.

These transactions, at whatever price the market dictates, are MUTUAL. Your third party judgment is unnecessary and irrelevant.

boltjames
Mar 13, 2012, 12:24 PM
You'd be surprised at how much things sell for on craigslist. The markup isn't that crazy, really. I sold a 32 gig wifi last year during the ipad 2 craze for $900.

I bought an Apple TV 2 for $199 the day after it was released at $99. Was worth the $100 to not have to wait online or wait another week for the Manhattan stores to be back in stock.

BJ

mwulf67
Mar 13, 2012, 12:56 PM
You are also making assumptions as well. You assume the seller is not paying sales tax on the income. Maybe you think lots of people wouldn't bother to report that income (I'd probably agree with you that very few people do), but still, you don't know how many do.

However, is taxes really the issue that people hate resellers? The overwhelming majority of posts complain about the morality of reselling. Denying an Apple fan the "right" to have an iPad, and other nonsense.

These transactions, at whatever price the market dictates, are MUTUAL. Your third party judgment is unnecessary and irrelevant.

The only reason people bring up the tax implications, is because other people attempt justify this behavior as perfectly legal...its only perfectly legal if the income is reported...

But yes, it is the morality of it, that I think people "hate" on resellers....I know I think little of them and what they do...and as a potential buyer of those products, I am not an uninterested third party to your little transaction, since you, at a minimum, theoretically limit/affect the legitimate availability of said product...

j.dstasio
Mar 13, 2012, 01:08 PM
Maybe it's a Jersey thing?

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/2891070143.html

$1200 for a 16gb WiFi in the next city over. That's just crazy.

deeddawg
Mar 13, 2012, 01:16 PM
$1200 for a 16gb WiFi in the next city over. That's just crazy.

I could list a week old booger on Craiglist for $100, but it doesn't mean anyone's going to buy it. :p

I'm unsure what the scalping/resale market will be like; depends on in-person demand and store stocks / re-stocks. Maybe it'll be like last year, maybe it'll be really tame. Either way it should become apparent within a few days how quickly stores restock and sell out again. Perhaps the scalpers will end up making a lot of returns in a couple weeks.

nooaah
Mar 13, 2012, 01:53 PM
IF someone's willing to buy my 16GB for $600 then I'd consider it - just because I'm already second guessing and may want to get a 32GB instead. Then again, I could just return it and pay the cost myself and not take advantage of someone so desperate that they can't wait a couple weeks for something that won't even excite them in a month or two. Run-on sentence is running on.

badpinoy
Mar 13, 2012, 01:59 PM
IF someone's willing to buy my 16GB for $600 then I'd consider it - just because I'm already second guessing and may want to get a 32GB instead. Then again, I could just return it and pay the cost myself and not take advantage of someone so desperate that they can't wait a couple weeks for something that won't even excite them in a month or two. Run-on sentence is running on.

someone will be willing to pay that price for the iPad.

dgstan
Mar 13, 2012, 02:01 PM
I second that. It's just plain old rude and unethically for people to take away an ipad from a true apple fan just to make $100. Then the ones who get away with buying 20?!
:

I might hazard to guess that the guy paying premium is the bigger Apple fan. If someone offered me $800 for my 32GB, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

It's all going to come down to how much stock Apple will have available for sale on Friday. If they run out by noon, count on HUGE markups on CL. It would be really hard to not participate in that frenzy. I want my iPad, but I'm not a complete idiot.

----------

IF someone's willing to buy my 16GB for $600 then I'd consider it - just because I'm already second guessing and may want to get a 32GB instead. Then again, I could just return it and pay the cost myself and not take advantage of someone so desperate that they can't wait a couple weeks for something that won't even excite them in a month or two. Run-on sentence is running on.

You're not "taking advantage" of them, you are helping them out. They know what they cost. There's no shenanigans going on.

pure3d2
Mar 13, 2012, 02:04 PM
The only reason people bring up the tax implications, is because other people attempt justify this behavior as perfectly legal...its only perfectly legal if the income is reported...

But yes, it is the morality of it, that I think people "hate" on resellers....I know I think little of them and what they do...and as a potential buyer of those products, I am not an uninterested third party to your little transaction, since you, at a minimum, theoretically limit/affect the legitimate availability of said product...

I pre-ordered one for myself and one for my wife. Now we're thinking that 16GB may not be enough. If someone is willing to pay $700 for the 16GB because 1) they didn't pre-order or 2) waited too long and now don't want to brave the lines, then what's wrong with that?

This is called opportunity cost.

NameUndecided
Mar 13, 2012, 02:11 PM
IF someone's willing to buy my 16GB for $600 then I'd consider it - just because I'm already second guessing and may want to get a 32GB instead. Then again, I could just return it and pay the cost myself and not take advantage of someone so desperate that they can't wait a couple weeks for something that won't even excite them in a month or two. Run-on sentence is running on.

While it would feel wrong to me to go and help deplete the stock at an official retailer for the sake of selling at a higher price, I don't think that it's "taking advantage" when an adult without any obvious mental handicap offers to pay however much they're willing to pay. It's more than reasonable to assume that they know that the device they're paying for won't be so difficult to find forever.

nooaah
Mar 13, 2012, 02:14 PM
I might hazard to guess that the guy paying premium is the bigger Apple fan. If someone offered me $800 for my 32GB, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

It's all going to come down to how much stock Apple will have available for sale on Friday. If they run out by noon, count on HUGE markups on CL. It would be really hard to not participate in that frenzy. I want my iPad, but I'm not a complete idiot.

----------



You're not "taking advantage" of them, you are helping them out. They know what they cost. There's no shenanigans going on.

Eh, it just feels incredibly greedy on my part...Then again, I really want more gigabytes - except my iPad 2, when I recently sold it, had only 4GB used before I restored to factory default. 16GB probably is enough even if I decide to plunk down some media for plane rides. Screw it, I'll open the box on Friday and enjoy my new toy.

mwulf67
Mar 13, 2012, 02:18 PM
I pre-ordered one for myself and one for my wife. Now we're thinking that 16GB may not be enough. If someone is willing to pay $700 for the 16GB because 1) they didn't pre-order or 2) waited too long and now don't want to brave the lines, then what's wrong with that?

This is called opportunity cost.

Perhaps nothing, especially if your justification is honest fickleness and not simple greed...

Maybe I should amend my comments to "professional" resellers...you know, those people who purposely and systemically buy multiple iPads with the sole intention of selling them on the gray market...

Doombringer
Mar 13, 2012, 02:21 PM
I'm probably going to wait a month or more for mine, but there's just a tinge of a craving to go out and try to buy one at the Apple store on Friday for the chance that I could make $100 or more through Craigslist. It's just that it would make me feel… gross, and waiting in line for an iPad that I have it in mind to scalp would feel awfully hollow.

But kudos (and eww) to the people who can do that and feel okay about it!

That gross feeling? That's your conscience. I'm glad you have one. :)

ZBoater
Mar 13, 2012, 02:27 PM
That gross feeling? That's your conscience. I'm glad you have one. :)

I'm not exactly sure how someone braving the launch day crowds or preordering and then making $$$ off someone who didn't but wants one is an act requiring an absence of conscience. My time is very valuable, and if I choose to pay someone else for theirs while getting me something I want, that should be fine.

:confused:

pure3d2
Mar 13, 2012, 02:30 PM
Perhaps nothing, especially if your justification is honest fickleness and not simple greed...

Maybe I should amend my comments to "professional" resellers...you know, those people who purposely and systemically buy multiple iPads with the sole intention of selling them on the gray market...

Oh like those Chinese sellers that had a gang of friends buy over 100 iPad 2's last year?

My original intention was to keep them, but now I want to get the 32GB version. I'm reselling them at the market price, which seems to be $650-750 for the 16GB, depending on location. I figured since I put in my time to pre-order and probably will have to wait a few weeks for the 32GB, someone who wants one now (and chose not to pre-order or opted not to line up on Friday) can compensate appropriately me for it.

But yeah the professional scalpers are scum.

santaliqueur
Mar 13, 2012, 03:01 PM
The only reason people bring up the tax implications, is because other people attempt justify this behavior as perfectly legal...its only perfectly legal if the income is reported...

But yes, it is the morality of it, that I think people "hate" on resellers....I know I think little of them and what they do...and as a potential buyer of those products, I am not an uninterested third party to your little transaction, since you, at a minimum, theoretically limit/affect the legitimate availability of said product...

Please explain how a guy who buys 2 iPads to sell, limits availability. I'd love to see the logic on that one.

Someone buys 2 iPads to sell, but then the iPads end up in the hands of people who were going to buy them anyway. Availability is not limited at all.

The seller is happy with the transaction: he makes a couple hundred bucks.
The buyer is happy with the transaction: he gets his device when he wants it.
Apple is happy with the transaction: they sell more iPads.

Everyone is happy. The only upset party is you. Too bad you aren't part of it.

----------

For those of you with a "conscience" (or as it applies to many of you: a lack of capitalist business sense), Let me set up a simple scenario.

For discussion purposes, assume the following:
1. iPads will be readily available in 1 month.
2. I can sell a 64GB wifi for $900 ($200 profit)

Under these circumstances, I could buy an iPad in a month, and have $200 left over. Or, I could keep my iPad I preordered, and forfeit $900.

This is the same as renting an iPad for $200 for the month. No different. Most of you would never dream of doing that. I want an iPad, and I will get one eventually. I'd rather have someone pay me $200 to wait a month.

mwulf67
Mar 13, 2012, 03:05 PM
Please explain how a guy who buys 2 iPads to sell, limits availability. I'd love to see the logic on that one.

Someone buys 2 iPads to sell, but then the iPads end up in the hands of people who were going to buy them anyway. Availability is not limited at all.

The seller is happy with the transaction: he makes a couple hundred bucks.
The buyer is happy with the transaction: he gets his device when he wants it.
Apple is happy with the transaction: they sell more iPads.

Everyone is happy. The only upset party is you. Too bad you aren't part of it.



Ok, I will trying a keep this very simple...

You are in front of me in line to by an iPad...you buy the last 2 iPads that store has in stock, with the sole intention of reselling them...I guess you could turn around a offer to sell me one at a hefty markup and somehow that is suppose to make me happy...rinse, repeat and multiply and hundred or thousand fold...

And by the way, if Apple was happy with your behavior there would be no sales limits....

maximus96
Mar 13, 2012, 03:07 PM
and the best part...if it doesn't sell, bring it back! not a penny out of your pocket

deeddawg
Mar 13, 2012, 03:08 PM
nevermind

mwulf67
Mar 13, 2012, 03:24 PM
[/COLOR]For those of you with a "conscience" (or as it applies to many of you: a lack of capitalist business sense), Let me set up a simple scenario.

For discussion purposes, assume the following:
1. iPads will be readily available in 1 month.
2. I can sell a 64GB wifi for $900 ($200 profit)

Under these circumstances, I could buy an iPad in a month, and have $200 left over. Or, I could keep my iPad I preordered, and forfeit $900.

This is the same as renting an iPad for $200 for the month. No different. Most of you would never dream of doing that. I want an iPad, and I will get one eventually. I'd rather have someone pay me $200 to wait a month.

Interesting use of "forfeit"...

scupking
Mar 13, 2012, 03:42 PM
I keeping thinking I should sell my 16GB one I'm getting Friday and then buy a 32 or 64GB one.

santaliqueur
Mar 13, 2012, 03:47 PM
Ok, I will trying a keep this very simple...
Don't talk down to me. If you do, get your sentence right.

You are in front of me in line to by an iPad...you buy the last 2 iPads that store has in stock, with the sole intention of reselling them...I guess you could turn around a offer to sell me one at a hefty markup and somehow that is suppose to make me happy...rinse, repeat and multiply and hundred or thousand fold...

And by the way, if Apple was happy with your behavior there would be no sales limits....

Your scenario makes no sense, because if I offered you the last 2 iPads at a hefty markup, you could either buy them or tell me to get lost. Either way, it's your choice. Where's the crime here? If you need another "simple" scenario, feel free to create another.

Apple limiting me to 2 iPads is them doing their part to keep prices DOWN during a time of increased demand. Companies could buy tens of thousands of iPads and set their own price. Apple doesn't care about some dude buying 2 iPads and selling them both. I promise you.

jdcbomb
Mar 13, 2012, 04:05 PM
Oh like those Chinese sellers that had a gang of friends buy over 100 iPad 2's last year?

My original intention was to keep them, but now I want to get the 32GB version. I'm reselling them at the market price, which seems to be $650-750 for the 16GB, depending on location. I figured since I put in my time to pre-order and probably will have to wait a few weeks for the 32GB, someone who wants one now (and chose not to pre-order or opted not to line up on Friday) can compensate appropriately me for it.

But yeah the professional scalpers are scum.

Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here. Plenty of responses have debated the virtues or immorality of being a reseller so I will not continue to argue these points. I honestly do not think most of you realize how big the reselling business is here in the USA and in Asia. In fact, the vast majority of big time resellers for hard to find items happen to be Chinese. Not sure why this is, but it could be the mindset as I myself happen to dabble in this field with quite a bit of success (nearly 300 units re-sold).

A bit of background in this business: The best practices and ruthlessness of buying up these items were first honed and practiced when the Nintendo Wiis came out. I personally know of several resellers who became millionaires reselling these. So the similar set of skills (quick acting, team work, high credit limits, disguises, multiple credit cards, etc.) were all perfected then. Craigslist is usually the 3rd option or backup option when selling with mass quantities being sold online.

China:

It is so organized in China, that entire teams of 20 to 50 people at a time wearing colored armbands will rove the malls and streets near Apple store during release time commanded by a team leader. With military precision they will swarm the lines and push any other stragglers out of the way. They are willing to camp out for hours sometimes days and are paid by the hour and day. Of course their rates are very low, as most of these are migrant workers that got nothing better to do.

A master reseller was able to buy up 200 Ipad 2 last year in NYC by paying off a bunch of students and old Chinese grandmas. On opening day he then flew with these 200 units to Hong Kong where he had a stall setup and sold out of every single unit in 24 hours making over $40,000.

USA:

Most of the resellers here happen to be graduate students and professionals who have time. There are also a number of full time businesses solely setup to take advantage of these shortages. I remember calling an online retailer last year during the iPad 2 craze and they shared with me (not knowing I too was a reseller) they ended up canceling hundreds of orders as all those were being shipped to the same address with all Asian last names. I will not be shocked to find out there are informal call centers setup in basements and dorm rooms with students working in teams with multiple credit cards and shipping addresses to work the system...whether Apple or any other retailer.

The networks of resellers here often communicate on student billboards and other private messaging systems and Google groups. Their team work was so effective they were shipping hundreds each DAY of Ipad 2 units to China offloading points each week. Everyone getting paid a commission along the way.

I personally witnessed entire extended families queuing up in line in front of Apple stores every single day without fail at 4AM every morning. Some of these folks even hired Hispanics to wait in line with them! Each person was handed cash and were likely able to capture about 10 to 20 units per day per group. So to end up reselling a few hundred units was about the average and by no means that amazing. There are likely resellers who have sold over a thousand units with multiple teams in different parts of the country working together. Any roadblock put up by the retailers including Apple have not really lessened the impact of this gray economy as there are always methods to get around the quantity restrictions (whether through manpower or other techniques).


Summary:

So apologies if this post has offended anyone. I only wanted to share with you that the reselling business is unstoppable. It literally is more high paying in some situations than drug dealing...safer...and with literally no risk (if you keep your receipts) The opportunity to make quite a bit of money is too tempting and it just so happens the Asian folks are laughing all the way to the bank (both from the factory owners, suppliers, and down to the reseller level). It is of course your decision and judgement to partake in the craziness.

NameUndecided
Mar 13, 2012, 05:36 PM
That was pretty insightful. Thanks, jdcbomb.

I go back and forth a little bit on the issue. I don't think it makes someone a bad person -- I can understand having the incentive and drive for doing this sort of thing. I do still think that I would feel a little bit gross for doing so, but I don't think it makes me a good or bad person. Morals are malleable and it's not a black and white issue.

I will say, honestly -- since I wasn't planning to buy for a month or two anyway -- I see a listing on my local CL from someone who says he's expecting his pre-order on Friday and he can sell soon after it arrives. That would have been such an easy $100 or so. I won't deny that I probably would go back and do the same thing.

GroundLoop
Mar 13, 2012, 06:39 PM
This one actually seems somewhat reasonable considering all of the money-grabbing going on...

http://orlando.craigslist.org/sys/2897652729.html

GL

boltjames
Mar 13, 2012, 08:42 PM
Someone offered me $3,000 for my The New iPad 64gb 4G LTE AT&T today.

And I said 'nope'.

It's good being rich.

BJ

icydog
Mar 13, 2012, 09:21 PM
Maybe it's a Jersey thing?

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/2891070143.html

$1200 for a 16gb WiFi in the next city over. That's just crazy.

I guess you don't live in Jersey. Cherry Hill is near Philly. It's about 50 miles away from Princeton.

icydog
Mar 13, 2012, 09:47 PM
Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here. Plenty of responses have debated the virtues or immorality of being a reseller so I will not continue to argue these points. I honestly do not think most of you realize how big the reselling business is here in the USA and in Asia. In fact, the vast majority of big time resellers for hard to find items happen to be Chinese. Not sure why this is, but it could be the mindset as I myself happen to dabble in this field with quite a bit of success (nearly 300 units re-sold).

A bit of background in this business: The best practices and ruthlessness of buying up these items were first honed and practiced when the Nintendo Wiis came out. I personally know of several resellers who became millionaires reselling these. So the similar set of skills (quick acting, team work, high credit limits, disguises, multiple credit cards, etc.) were all perfected then. Craigslist is usually the 3rd option or backup option when selling with mass quantities being sold online.

China:

It is so organized in China, that entire teams of 20 to 50 people at a time wearing colored armbands will rove the malls and streets near Apple store during release time commanded by a team leader. With military precision they will swarm the lines and push any other stragglers out of the way. They are willing to camp out for hours sometimes days and are paid by the hour and day. Of course their rates are very low, as most of these are migrant workers that got nothing better to do.

A master reseller was able to buy up 200 Ipad 2 last year in NYC by paying off a bunch of students and old Chinese grandmas. On opening day he then flew with these 200 units to Hong Kong where he had a stall setup and sold out of every single unit in 24 hours making over $40,000.

USA:

Most of the resellers here happen to be graduate students and professionals who have time. There are also a number of full time businesses solely setup to take advantage of these shortages. I remember calling an online retailer last year during the iPad 2 craze and they shared with me (not knowing I too was a reseller) they ended up canceling hundreds of orders as all those were being shipped to the same address with all Asian last names. I will not be shocked to find out there are informal call centers setup in basements and dorm rooms with students working in teams with multiple credit cards and shipping addresses to work the system...whether Apple or any other retailer.

The networks of resellers here often communicate on student billboards and other private messaging systems and Google groups. Their team work was so effective they were shipping hundreds each DAY of Ipad 2 units to China offloading points each week. Everyone getting paid a commission along the way.

I personally witnessed entire extended families queuing up in line in front of Apple stores every single day without fail at 4AM every morning. Some of these folks even hired Hispanics to wait in line with them! Each person was handed cash and were likely able to capture about 10 to 20 units per day per group. So to end up reselling a few hundred units was about the average and by no means that amazing. There are likely resellers who have sold over a thousand units with multiple teams in different parts of the country working together. Any roadblock put up by the retailers including Apple have not really lessened the impact of this gray economy as there are always methods to get around the quantity restrictions (whether through manpower or other techniques).


Summary:

So apologies if this post has offended anyone. I only wanted to share with you that the reselling business is unstoppable. It literally is more high paying in some situations than drug dealing...safer...and with literally no risk (if you keep your receipts) The opportunity to make quite a bit of money is too tempting and it just so happens the Asian folks are laughing all the way to the bank (both from the factory owners, suppliers, and down to the reseller level). It is of course your decision and judgement to partake in the craziness.

This as an amazing post and very illuminating too. Thanks for taking the time to fill us on on this segment of the economy or grey market

----------

Someone offered me $3,000 for my The New iPad 64gb 4G LTE AT&T today.

And I said 'nope'.

It's good being rich.

BJ

Can you give him my phone number???:D

----------

Does anyone know Targets policies re returning an iPad? I imagine the lines there will be much much shorter. .

TB07-NJ
Mar 13, 2012, 10:49 PM
Folks pay $1000 for $50 seats to see a concert. That's a "1 time use" ticket. Why wouldn't they pay $1000 for an iPad they could use for years? Why is everyone so shocked?

MR1324
Mar 13, 2012, 10:56 PM
Folks pay $1000 for $50 seats to see a concert. That's a "1 time use" ticket. Why wouldn't they pay $1000 for an iPad they could use for years? Why is everyone so shocked?

yup it's the same thing. like i said earlier, a product is worth what ever someone is willing to pay for it. if people are willing to pay 1K for a new ipad, then that is the REAL value, not what the retail price is.

TB07-NJ
Mar 13, 2012, 11:04 PM
Does anyone know Targets policies re returning an iPad? I imagine the lines there will be much much shorter. . 45 days. That's what it says on my iPad 2 receipt.

Buildbright
Mar 13, 2012, 11:08 PM
Someone offered me $3,000 for my The New iPad 64gb 4G LTE AT&T today.

And I said 'nope'.

It's good being rich.

BJ

Then give him my information.

badpinoy
Mar 13, 2012, 11:37 PM
it seems to be hit or miss right now. no bites on craigslist as of yet.

sartios
Mar 13, 2012, 11:43 PM
There is some guy selling 64gb on for £200 more than retail prices and he's sold 6 of them, nice little earner.

GrindedDown
Mar 13, 2012, 11:53 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

I am expecting that eBay and Craigslist sales really won't take off or skyrocket in price until about 10 am on Friday.

Right now it's not happening because people are still hopeful that they can waltz into line at 6 or 7 am and still have any shot at getting an iPad. Once they get there and are told by around 10 or 11 that they are sold out, they begin to panic. Then they see the estimated ship time online is 4-6 weeks. Then they REALLY start to panic because the iPad they promised little jimmy for his 12 birthday is sold out. Then they pay $1000 for a 16gb wifi iPad instead of waiting for several weeks constantly hunting stores. Then the seller is happy.........that's usually how these things go.......and I'm not even kidding in the slightest.

Buildbright
Mar 13, 2012, 11:56 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

I am expecting that eBay and Craigslist sales really won't take off or skyrocket in price until about 10 am on Friday.

Right now it's not happening because people are still hopeful that they can waltz into line at 6 or 7 am and still have any shot at getting an iPad. Once they get there and are told by around 10 or 11 that they are sold out, they begin to panic. Then they see the estimated ship time online is 4-6 weeks. Then they REALLY start to panic because the iPad they promised little jimmy for his 12 birthday is sold out. Then they pay $1000 for a 16gb wifi iPad instead of waiting for several weeks constantly hunting stores. Then the seller is happy.........that's usually how these things go.......and I'm not even kidding in the slightest.

Monday night ebay.

64 LTE went for $1600 thats pretty big.

Also three of them went for $4500.00

GrindedDown
Mar 14, 2012, 12:20 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Haha, I love it!!! I think its pretty awesome that people are willing to pay prices like that actually.

I will probably never pre-order in my life and if I'm rich and just happen to be late to the camp-out punch, I would probably pay prices like that. That's because I am a tech obsessed freak I gess and having something day one (if I actually want it, which is rare) is of utmost importance.

mwulf67
Mar 14, 2012, 08:42 AM
Don't talk down to me. If you do, get your sentence right.


I treat people how they treat me and others...you condescend me, I condescend you back...if you don't like it, check yourself....or continue to hypocritically whine about it...your choice...

Your scenario makes no sense, because if I offered you the last 2 iPads at a hefty markup, you could either buy them or tell me to get lost. Either way, it's your choice. Where's the crime here? If you need another "simple" scenario, feel free to create another.
The "crime," as it were, is that the person behind you in my scenario was deprived (at least temporally) a legitimate retail cost iPad because of your existence and behavior...of course, if your behavior is repeated over and over again (and it likely will be), that effect is multiplied creating a shortages and limits availability at the legitimate retail consumer level...of course, at the macro level, Apple still sells out of their available daily stock and on the surface you might conclude that they are perfectly happy with that, and by extension your behavior... which bring us to your second delusional point (on a side note: deluding one's self seems to be a common attribute of most resellers).


Apple limiting me to 2 iPads is them doing their part to keep prices DOWN during a time of increased demand. Companies could buy tens of thousands of iPads and set their own price. Apple doesn't care about some dude buying 2 iPads and selling them both. I promise you.

First of all, you don't seem to appreciate that your individual behavior doesn't take place in a vacuum... does Apple care that you, santaliqueur, buys 2 iPad with the intent to resell them? Probably not...however, when 100s of thousand of "santaliqueurs" are all doing that same thing...yeah, I think they care...

Earlier you said, "Apple is happy with [your resell] transaction: they sell more iPads." If that was truly the case, why not just the lift the limit or expand it to 10 or 100? If all Apple cares about is selling X number of units, why do they care who they sell them to or what those buyers do with them afterwards? I'll tell you why, because Apply would rather a 100 iPads to a 100 consumers then a 100 iPads to 1 reseller...the former is their business model, not the later...

Apple is in the business of manufacturing consume electronics and selling them directly to their consumers through their own retail stores or authorized retailers...they don't need or want parasitic resellers like you feeding off their hard work and success...with or without you, their products will sell and they will make the same profit...with you, they have increased and inflated shortages and a more frustrated legitimate consumer base...which do you think they would rather have?

Please stop deluding yourself into thinking you're some kind virtuous and necessarily, capitalistic white knight...

TB07-NJ
Mar 14, 2012, 09:06 AM
Monday night ebay.

64 LTE went for $1600 thats pretty big.

Also three of them went for $4500.00 Wanna bet those $4500 deals never get completed? Probably some stolen eBay account people are using to stop bidders.

As for the $1600, that probably could happen. That's why I always use "BUY IT NOW" and "IMMEDIATE PAYMENT REQUIRED." I may lose a few bucks in the end if it were an auction but I am 100% sure the sale will be completed because it won't complete unless payment is made.

santaliqueur
Mar 14, 2012, 09:57 AM
The "crime," as it were, is that the person behind you in my scenario was deprived (at least temporally) a legitimate retail cost iPad because of your existence and behavior
You make it sound like it's a basic human right for you to have these devices. In your scenario, I got there before you. If I buy the last two, tough ***** for you. You won't get them, but someone else will, and they will be happy because it's a mutual transaction.

...of course, if your behavior is repeated over and over again (and it likely will be), that effect is multiplied creating a shortages and limits availability at the legitimate retail consumer level
You seem to forget that the number of iPads available is already fixed. If there are 10 million iPads available for preorder, then 10 million people get iPads. Are you attempting to suggest that the intention of the purchaser dictates the level of availability? Your logic puzzles me.

...of course, at the macro level, Apple still sells out of their available daily stock and on the surface you might conclude that they are perfectly happy with that, and by extension your behavior... which bring us to your second delusional point (on a side note: deluding one's self seems to be a common attribute of most resellers).
Apple will sell every iPad they can make. No matter what is done with them after the initial purchase.


First of all, you don't seem to appreciate that your individual behavior doesn't take place in a vacuum... does Apple care that you, santaliqueur, buys 2 iPad with the intent to resell them? Probably not...however, when 100s of thousand of "santaliqueurs" are all doing that same thing...yeah, I think they care...
You claim they care, without actually seeing any evidence of this. If it hurt their business, they would find a way to stop it. They don't care, even after your weak attempts to say they do. Apple is easily the most valuable company on the planet. I wonder why so many people are trying to stand up for them, but only when it comes to reselling. They are doing just fine without your defense.

Earlier you said, "Apple is happy with [your resell] transaction: they sell more iPads." If that was truly the case, why not just the lift the limit or expand it to 10 or 100? If all Apple cares about is selling X number of units, why do they care who they sell them to or what those buyers do with them afterwards? I'll tell you why, because Apply would rather a 100 iPads to a 100 consumers then a 100 iPads to 1 reseller...the former is their business model, not the later...
You never bothered to read (or comprehend) what I wrote in an earlier post. I said limiting the number of iPads sold to someone was 2, to limit volume resellers. You ask me that same question in this post, and then proceed to answer the question, agreeing with me. Are you actually reading my posts? It doesn't seem so.

Apple is in the business of manufacturing consume electronics and selling them directly to their consumers through their own retail stores or authorized retailers...they don't need or want parasitic resellers like you feeding off their hard work and success...with or without you, their products will sell and they will make the same profit...with you, they have increased and inflated shortages and a more frustrated legitimate consumer base...which do you think they would rather have?
Please provide examples where shortages are increased because of resellers. There are a limited amount of iPads available at launch. All of those will be sold, with or without resellers. Your statement is total bull.

Please stop deluding yourself into thinking you're some kind virtuous and necessarily, capitalistic white knight...
And while we are at it, you can stop deluding yourself into thinking you are some kind of moral compass by not making a few hundred dollars on a transaction that negatively affects nobody. Capitalistic white knight? Is that how I saw myself? Your arguments are weak, but your use of hyperbole is impressive. Your inclusion of emotion into this debate sends a strong message to me: You got nothing.

deeddawg
Mar 14, 2012, 10:19 AM
You make it sound like it's a basic human right for you to have these devices. In your scenario, I got there before you. If I buy the last two, tough ***** for you.

But it's not FAIIIRRR!!! (in my best whiny victim voice) :cool:

You're in line. You buy the two Apple allows. They're yours to do with as you see fit; personal property rights. Someone behind you that missed out should have gotten there earlier if it was that important to them.

Let the downvotes commence.

mwulf67
Mar 14, 2012, 10:43 AM
You make it sound like it's a basic human right for you to have these devices. In your scenario, I got there before you. If I buy the last two, tough ***** for you. You won't get them, but someone else will, and they will be happy because it's a mutual transaction.


No I am not, that's just your irrelevant and deflective spin on my words...you asked how your behavior limits availability...the person behind you certainly had his availability limited by your behavior...question asked, question answered...as I said, I understand you are not effect overall availability, but you, and those like you, are certainly effecting availability to those who wish to by at retail, from Apple or a authorized retailer...if you can't or won't admit that, then anything you have to subsequently say based on that delusion is of little value...

And while we are at it, you can stop deluding yourself into thinking you are some kind of moral compass by not making a few hundred dollars on a transaction that negatively affects nobody. Capitalistic white knight? Is that how I saw myself? Your arguments are weak, but your use of hyperbole is impressive. Your inclusion of emotion into this debate sends a strong message to me: You got nothing.

Given your claim that those who don't resell or rally against it simply suffer from " a lack of capitalist business sense"...yeah, I think you see yourself as a pretty smart cookie compared to the rest of us...

Little friendly advice, closing pronouncements that "you got nothing" make you sound very juvenile...like something a 14 year old would say...word up...

GrindedDown
Mar 14, 2012, 11:04 AM
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I am going to have to agree with Santa here.

What it all boils down to is economics 101. There is little supply and a great demand. The people who get there 12 hours in advance to make sure they get one take an opportunity cost. The guy who shows up late expecting to get one, does not (excluding the purchase of the iPad which could go to something else I suppose). The guy who went early has every right to sell it to the guy behind him at a big markup. And that is the essence of capitalism and the American way. If the guy behind him really wanted it bad enough, he either should have taken the same opportunity cost as the gentleman who got there 12 hours early or because he didn't take that cost, he will pay a markup for it....or have to wait days, weeks, possibly months to get one. Either way, there is a cost to both parties and the guy leveraging that for profit is a capitalist. This to me isn't wrong in the slightest. Hell apple is doing the same thing. If they wanted to, they could charge $350 for each iPad they sell and make a slight profit, but they are instead leveraging the demand of such a product and charging for it; they are capitalizing.

Anyone who finds this kind of behavior morally wrong is very naive and somewhat foolish.

Having said that, I camped out for Xbox 360 for 12 hours when it came out. I was the last person to get one. Two people offered me money for my spot. One was a balding older fat guy who wanted it for himself. He offered me $700 just for my spot (read: all profit). Then another lady who was there for his son on his birthday simply asked me if they could have my spot. They didn't pull a guilt trip card at all. I gave the little boy my spot and it was worth it and I walked away without a dime extra (and no x box).

Moral of the story? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the form of capitalism as that is what our country is founded upon. However, sometimes there are things more important than profit.

santaliqueur
Mar 14, 2012, 11:35 AM
No I am not, that's just your irrelevant and deflective spin on my words...you asked how your behavior limits availability...the person behind you certainly had his availability limited by your behavior
Thank you for proving my point. The market's availability is not limited. Availability is limited for the guy who got there too late. Too bad.

...question asked, question answered...as I said, I understand you are not effect overall availability, but you, and those like you, are certainly effecting availability to those who wish to by at retail, from Apple or a authorized retailer...if you can't or won't admit that, then anything you have to subsequently say based on that delusion is of little value...
So now as a reseller of 2 units, I have to worry about the guy who couldn't make it there in time? I'm worrying about his feelings? Get there early or don't get one.

Given your claim that those who don't resell or rally against it simply suffer from " a lack of capitalist business sense"...yeah, I think you see yourself as a pretty smart cookie compared to the rest of us...
If you are declining to buy and resell iPads and make a few hundred dollars JUST because you think it's morally wrong? Yes, you have a lack of capitalist business sense. You may use more hyperbole to make me sound like i'm bragging, but at its basic level, you lack it.

Little friendly advice, closing pronouncements that "you got nothing" make you sound very juvenile...like something a 14 year old would say...word up...
And yet, I've never used the term "word up".

mwulf67
Mar 14, 2012, 12:21 PM
And yet, I've never used the term "word up".

And thanks for confirming what I suspected all along...

0dev
Mar 14, 2012, 12:23 PM
First thought about this: OP probably set up the listing, is now using MR for publicity ;)

Buildbright
Mar 14, 2012, 01:49 PM
Wanna bet those $4500 deals never get completed? Probably some stolen eBay account people are using to stop bidders.

As for the $1600, that probably could happen. That's why I always use "BUY IT NOW" and "IMMEDIATE PAYMENT REQUIRED." I may lose a few bucks in the end if it were an auction but I am 100% sure the sale will be completed because it won't complete unless payment is made.

It’s hard to say. I have sold things on eBay for ridiculous amounts of money and they went through no issues what so ever. I agree with you I only use "BUY IT NOW" and "IMMEDIATE PAYMENT REQUIRED.". People don’t pay and then leave you bad feedback for not shipping on time...lol

I am selling my extras on Amazon as I get much better Seller Protection.

mwulf67
Mar 14, 2012, 01:52 PM
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I am going to have to agree with Santa here.

What it all boils down to is economics 101. There is little supply and a great demand. The people who get there 12 hours in advance to make sure they get one take an opportunity cost. The guy who shows up late expecting to get one, does not (excluding the purchase of the iPad which could go to something else I suppose). The guy who went early has every right to sell it to the guy behind him at a big markup. And that is the essence of capitalism and the American way. If the guy behind him really wanted it bad enough, he either should have taken the same opportunity cost as the gentleman who got there 12 hours early or because he didn't take that cost, he will pay a markup for it....or have to wait days, weeks, possibly months to get one. Either way, there is a cost to both parties and the guy leveraging that for profit is a capitalist. This to me isn't wrong in the slightest. Hell apple is doing the same thing. If they wanted to, they could charge $350 for each iPad they sell and make a slight profit, but they are instead leveraging the demand of such a product and charging for it; they are capitalizing.

Anyone who finds this kind of behavior morally wrong is very naive and somewhat foolish.

Having said that, I camped out for Xbox 360 for 12 hours when it came out. I was the last person to get one. Two people offered me money for my spot. One was a balding older fat guy who wanted it for himself. He offered me $700 just for my spot (read: all profit). Then another lady who was there for his son on his birthday simply asked me if they could have my spot. They didn't pull a guilt trip card at all. I gave the little boy my spot and it was worth it and I walked away without a dime extra (and no x box).

Moral of the story? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the form of capitalism as that is what our country is founded upon. However, sometimes there are things more important than profit.

Simply capitalizing or being a capitalist does excuse one from the standards of ethical behavior...their many forms of purely capitalistic behavior that, we as a society, deem to be unethical/immoral...mostly because they are viewed to be detrimental to the free market or to our society as a whole ...things like monopolistic practices, price fixing, hoarding, price gouging, speculation, profiteering have or continue to be viewed as unethical business behavior by many...if we disagree that scraping or reselling like we're talking is unethical...fine, so be it...we simply draw our ethical lines slightly differently...but I hope you're not claiming that no ethical lines should ever be drawn; that anything done in the name of capitalism is automatically excluded from moral or ethical judgment...

Moral of the story? Anyone one on wrong side of an ethical line considers the line drawer to be naive and foolish...

dunktap
Mar 14, 2012, 02:04 PM
I've noticed that most of the ipads that are selling for any sort of decent markup on ebay have been getting bids from people with zero feedback.

GrindedDown
Mar 14, 2012, 02:06 PM
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No mwulf, you're twisting my words to wrongly fit your argument and make judgements about whether or not I think there are ethical lines or not.

I certainly agree with you that there are a slew of unethical forms of business practice; there is certainly lines drawn in ethical behavior.

If you feel that reselling iPad at a profit crosses the line, then I won't dissuade you. However, I feel that you are dead wrong in this scenario. This scenario doesn't even come close to crossing the line of unethical practices. If people are exercising their free option (hint: there are other options) to pay a markup on a luxury product that they dont need, when they could just wait and continue searching, there is not a single thing unethical about it. It's pure capitalism.

The unethical business practices that you speak when people are put into precarious positions where they have NO choice but to submit to the markup, price gouging, and other unethical behaviors. In this scenario, you're unbelievably dead wrong as there are a plethora of options available to consumers.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling unethical about doing something like this because that's your choice, but I am saying your dead wrong for accusing others about being unethical for this practice.....dead wrong.

deeddawg
Mar 14, 2012, 02:08 PM
I am selling my extras on Amazon as I get much better Seller Protection.

Yes, Amazon has great seller protection and fees are good.

GrindedDown
Mar 14, 2012, 02:09 PM
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I've noticed that most of the ipads that are selling for any sort of decent markup on ebay have been getting bids from people with zero feedback.

Dunktap, that's pretty interesting and not uncommon. Often times that is the seller who is using multiple accounts ( either theirs, a friends, or hacked) in an attempt to make the auction appear more attractive to people and drive the price up.

I do believe that this is very unethical as they are using false and deceptive ways to obtain a higher price point. Much different than legitimate buyers bidding ONLY against each other. That way garners a legitimate and fair market price for the product.

mwulf67
Mar 14, 2012, 02:47 PM
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No mwulf, you're twisting my words to wrongly fit your argument and make judgements about whether or not I think there are ethical lines or not.

I certainly agree with you that there are a slew of unethical forms of business practice; there is certainly lines drawn in ethical behavior.

If you feel that reselling iPad at a profit crosses the line, then I won't dissuade you. However, I feel that you are dead wrong in this scenario. This scenario doesn't even come close to crossing the line of unethical practices. If people are exercising their free option (hint: there are other options) to pay a markup on a luxury product that they dont need, when they could just wait and continue searching, there is not a single thing unethical about it. It's pure capitalism.

The unethical business practices that you speak when people are put into precarious positions where they have NO choice but to submit to the markup, price gouging, and other unethical behaviors. In this scenario, you're unbelievably dead wrong as there are a plethora of options available to consumers.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling unethical about doing something like this because that's your choice, but I am saying your dead wrong for accusing others about being unethical for this practice.....dead wrong.

That's a load of crap...I am not dead wrong for expressing my opinion on what I believe to be unethical behavior...You just did the same extract thing in the post above, passing judgement on what you consider to be unethical behavior...

fridgeymonster3
Mar 14, 2012, 03:14 PM
I don't know why people have such a problem with private entities selling consumer goods for a profit. As long as the seller reports the profit to the IRS and the seller reports the sales tax he didn't pay to his state (assuming his state has an applicable sales tax) then nothing is wrong with the transaction.

Consumer goods work on a first-come first-serve basis. The reason is fairness, as it hopefully gives consumers an equal opportunity to purchase the good. Everyone has financial and time priorities and those that choose to "line-up," either virtually or literally at a store, do so by choice. If they cannot afford an iPad, they don't "line-up" for one; if they don't want one, they don't "line-up" for one; if they are busy during the 2 days of pre-order, then they missed their opportunity to virtually "line-up" and now have to choose whether they want to literally line-up to purchase an iPad. If someone has missed his chance to "line-up," then he can go ahead and try to bargain with a person to take their "spot." Nobody is forcing a person to give up their spot, sell their iPad, purchase an iPad at an increased price, etc.

What other system do people want besides first-come first-serve? Do you want to base consumer goods on need? By whom and how would need be determined for something like an iPad? Apple restricts iPad sales to 2 to further promote the fairness of the system the best way they possibly can. If they reduced it further, they would just anger more people who have legitimate reasons to purchase two, like myself.

mad-jamie16
Mar 14, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Dunktap, that's pretty interesting and not uncommon. Often times that is the seller who is using multiple accounts ( either theirs, a friends, or hacked) in an attempt to make the auction appear more attractive to people and drive the price up.

I do believe that this is very unethical as they are using false and deceptive ways to obtain a higher price point. Much different than legitimate buyers bidding ONLY against each other. That way garners a legitimate and fair market price for the product.

funny you should say that, about half a year ago I noticed that someone had hacked my Ebay account and had bid on two iPads. I didn't think much of it and just phone Ebay and got my account locked. Now I am wondering if that was what the hacker was trying to do...

----------

That's a load of crap...I am not dead wrong for expressing my opinion on what I believe to be unethical behavior...You just did the same extract thing in the post above, passing judgement on what you consider to be unethical behavior...

I think you are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. the guy who bought two iPads to resell bought them with his own money and waited in line for them. They are technically his property now and he can do whatever he damn well pleases with them, be it use them, sell them on or even smash them up. Why you are judging this person and his motives for buying this product, I do not know, but I doubt he gives two ***** about what you think and is now $200 up.

mwulf67
Mar 15, 2012, 08:17 AM
I think you are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. the guy who bought two iPads to resell bought them with his own money and waited in line for them. They are technically his property now and he can do whatever he damn well pleases with them, be it use them, sell them on or even smash them up. Why you are judging this person and his motives for buying this product, I do not know, but I doubt he gives two ***** about what you think and is now $200 up.


Oh, I'll do you one better and guarantee he doesn't give two ***** what I think...not sure how or why that changes anything...

If I am making this too complicated, I believe you're losing sight of the bigger picture...you pro-scalping guys (for a lack of a better word) keep attempting to personalize this...you're right, if this was just one guy reselling two iPads, I probably won't give two **** either...the problem is it isn't just one guy reselling a couple of iPads; it's potentially hundreds of thousands of guys reselling God only knows how many iPads...to me its death by a thousand cuts (creeping normalcy)...of course, if you focus in only on a single cut, it might not seem like a big deal...

applesith
Mar 15, 2012, 08:40 AM
I plan on selling my 2nd one I bought. Originally it was for my wife but she's content of keeping her iPad 2. So Im gonna sell it, but if the money isn't right, I'll just return it for a full refund. Both mine are being shipped FEDEX so since I work for them, I will more than like have access to it early. Im gonna post it on CL a day early that I have iPad 3 in-hand and see who wants it early for $$$, if not I will just return it.....But i have a feeling once my wife sees mine, she is gonna wanna keep her new one after all...Stay tuned!

P.S.: OP, $850 is a realistic price he will prob get for that 16GB. Some people have enough money to where they don't care about over paying on prices. Im not saying its the smartest thing but if you have the cash it doesn't matter. For the last 12 years i have been paying $500-$750 for unlocked smartphones, so to me its not unrealistic for an iPad for$850...You should see how much unlocked iPhones go for when they 1st are announced. A 16GB new iPad will sell for $850, of course thats contingent on selling at the right time. The best thing about america is its a free market and the market will determine the price. No one is putting a gun to any buyers head forcing them to pay premium.

Amen!

j.dstasio
Mar 15, 2012, 08:47 AM
I guess you don't live in Jersey. Cherry Hill is near Philly. It's about 50 miles away from Princeton.

I meant the next city over from me, not next to Princeton. I'm in Mt Laurel. But yes, it is closer to Philly.

Richmond1958
Mar 15, 2012, 08:57 AM
There's going to be plenty of stock ... just maybe not right away. What people who pay a "scalper" are paying for is simply the right to get their unit sooner than if they wait for 2-3 weeks or so to get one directly from Apple.

Currently Ebay seems to be pricing that "impatience premium" (smile) at somwhere between (very approximate, with some outliers) $175-400 dollars, depending on the unit. I see two possible things happening:

1. Lines are shorter tomorrow at the stores because of the pre-ordering and the stores have stock remaining. That should all but negate any aftermarket including ebay and craigslist. After all, why pay more if there are units are the store at MSRP?

2. The stores sell out and, possibly, the Apple shipping dates immediately increase. That's the iPad 2 situation in a nutshell and many people were getting double especially when the shipping dates were out to 4-6 weeks (or was it 6-8 weeks?).

Ebay, right now, is kind of a "futures market" (albeit pretty inefficient) for the new iPads. Since there is currently a premium being paid, the "smart money" seems to believe that there will be not enough supply short term.

Sirmausalot
Mar 15, 2012, 12:51 PM
Richmond, I like your simple analysis. For me, it's a matter of if I can get a 300-400 premium. Then it's worth it for me to sell the two I ordered, then repurchase -- and wait the 3 weeks.

If you had to lay odds, will it be easy to get that 300-400 premium by listing on Craigslist in NYC? That's enough to pay for nearly a year of LTE service...

If it's only 100-200, I'd rather just keep them and enjoy.

NameUndecided
Mar 15, 2012, 02:17 PM
Now I'm wondering if these are really going to be so difficult to find after tomorrow or going into next week. It sounds like everyone like Target, Best Buy, all the rest, are getting them in stock tomorrow. Is there really any indication at all that these are going to be somewhat rare for in-store purchase outside of using last year as a frame of reference?

maximus96
Mar 15, 2012, 03:26 PM
perhaps there won't be much of a shortage to drive up prices in CL. I see a bunch of 16gb wifi going for $650-$725 mostly...

identity
Mar 15, 2012, 05:31 PM
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/2904248261.html

Just saw this on craigslist. It's rediculous lol!

icydog
Mar 15, 2012, 05:35 PM
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/2904248261.html

Just saw this on craigslist. It's rediculous lol!


Did you read it. He didn't know the color and he states the iPad is 128 GB.

identity
Mar 15, 2012, 05:36 PM
Did you read it. He didn't know the color and he states the iPad is 128 GB.

But hey, he said it's not a scam and he doesn't want spammers and scammers. He's trustworthy. :rolleyes:

icydog
Mar 15, 2012, 05:40 PM
But hey, he said it's not a scam and he doesn't want spammers and scammers. He's trustworthy. :rolleyes:

Yeah right! He's an honest guy who's sellng a dubiously colored iPad with 128 GB of memory!

iSayuSay
Mar 16, 2012, 09:23 PM
Situation like this always make me lift my eyebrows. Yeah scalping may be not the respectable action you could do as a human being. Everybody love to make some fortune, scalping ain't exactly a criminal action too, I could understand them. But scalping wouldn't exist unless there are enough demands.

And yeah, I really don't understand about the stupid stupid demand part. How could people are willing to pay for Apple's new stuff, or any other new released stuff like new iPad like $900 - $1000 even for basic 16GB WiFi model. And the high end 64GB + LTE could go up to $1400? They're voluntarily accept the price those scalpers offered. WTF??!!

And by that case, most demands come from adult people with money, and have jobs (doesn't necessarily they're wealthy, could be just obsessed and barely have collected enough money and take overnight job to deal with it).

I mean iPad, iPhone, all of those are great product for sure, but why pay A LOT MORE than it should? They say Apple things are not exactly cheap and affordable, .. but now, some people out there even buy iPad much more than Apple would charge you. MUUCCH MORE!! Why :confused:

iPad ain't exactly a scarce, collector or rare items, unless you custom-order it from Stuart Hughes, it's just a normal mass produced electronic gadget. In the next 3 or 4 months new iPad would available in a normal price. What's with "I gotta have it NOW" attitude? They don't go anywhere later, and they'll just stay the same because it's just product. What's so urgent about buying new iPad that you gotta have one today? They're dying if no iPad would come that very day? Some people lost their mind already?

Or that people willing to pay MUCH MORE just to show off friends/familiy that he/she has the latest gen of new iPad at the earliest? Is that it? And 3 months later I could come up with the very same iPad they bought earlier with muucch muucch lower price, the price that Apple would charge me for one.

Suree .. I know how the hype feels, when I was a STUPID TEEN and IMMATURE, I used to have this "gotta have newest/greatest" attitude, I bought a PS3 games in day one, sometime I got it from scalper for a mere collector edition. Now I think back to that. HOW MORON I WAS. wasting money like that while I can wait a bit more, and still get the same item for much appropriate money. In the end, we'll all make it, and the stuff we wanted doesn't go anywhere. It's just YOU that moronically expense money more than it should.

Me being envy? Oh LOL on you then, I can easily afford 30 or 40 64GB iPads with my SPARE MONEY on overscalped price, but why would I give my hard earned money for them? As I said, new iPad doesn't go anywhere, and it doesn't change, if it's changed, it could be even better because there could be some minor revision or updates if I wait a bit longer.
I wouldn't pay more than Apple would charge me, even when I know I'm wealthy enough, but I'm not stupid wealthy man. Maybe I would pay for extra $30 - $40 if someone could deliver it to my home in 3 days instead of normal 2 - 3 weeks. Not a dime more.