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i0Nic
Mar 29, 2012, 07:43 PM
I have found the holy grail drawing experience on the iPad.

The just released Paper app by fiftythree is a wonderfully minimal drawing app. It completely removes on-screen UI in favour of intuitive and simple controls.

The app looks especially good on my new retina-screen iPad.

Combined with the Cosmonaut stylus I recently purchased from Studio Neat (makers of the glif iPhone stand) this is a wonderful experience.

I encourage you all to check out this app, and the cosmonaut stylus. I just wrote a blog post with links and screenshots if you're interested http://www.peterpetrovski.com/post/20138890302/made-with-paper-a-beautiful-new-drawing-app-on

Keen to hear your thoughts on both these products.

Paper http://fiftythree.com/
Cosmonaut http://www.studioneat.com/products/cosmonaut



thelead
Mar 29, 2012, 08:32 PM
I don't like in app purchases. Also, how do you select custom colors?

MadGoat
Mar 30, 2012, 02:44 AM
I don't like in app purchases. Also, how do you select custom colors?

So a free app with in app purchases(With a limited try before you buy), or a fully paid app that you cannot even try beforehand and might totally hate... I think the former sounds like a much better option.

I dislike IAP for junk like jewels, coins or anything that diminishes as you use it.


I've been using the app since it came out... it's honestly the best $8 I've spent.

thelead
Mar 30, 2012, 03:37 AM
So a free app with in app purchases(With a limited try before you buy), or a fully paid app that you cannot even try beforehand and might totally hate... I think the former sounds like a much better option.

I dislike IAP for junk like jewels, coins or anything that diminishes as you use it.


I've been using the app since it came out... it's honestly the best $8 I've spent.

I would rather them have a "lite" version. Anyways, how do you choose custom colors?

MadGoat
Mar 30, 2012, 04:00 AM
I would rather them have a "lite" version. Anyways, how do you choose custom colors?

This is like a 'lite' version(without the ads) and if you want a full version, pay for it.

Custom colours... Blend them, get creative. It's simplicity at its best.

emptyCup
Mar 30, 2012, 06:00 AM
I have found the holy grail drawing experience on the iPad.

It looks nice but its functionality is so obscure it's like playing a game. I had to watch their video twice to gather clues. I still don't know how to bring up in-app purchases.

MadGoat
Mar 30, 2012, 06:30 AM
It looks nice but its functionality is so obscure it's like playing a game. I had to watch their video twice to gather clues. I still don't know how to bring up in-app purchases.

Click a pen, you'll see the in-app pop up. Buy the pen you want or swipe to the left until you get to the end and grab the kit.

It's honestly one of the best, most natural drawing apps I have ever user. It feels like I'm using a pen on paper.

They just need to find a way to add a palm rest and change their undo method.

deathbyart
Mar 30, 2012, 10:00 AM
I have been messing around the app and a Jot Pro. I personally love the app and think the purchasing modell makes sense. If you don't want the brush, don't buy it. Simple enough.

Zimmy68
Mar 30, 2012, 10:26 AM
I also don't prefer this system.
This way, they can add a new set of brushes next month for another charge.
Let me pay a single amount for the app and any additions are included.
This nickel and dime-ing is so customer unfriendly to me.

It would be like running Excel and seeing a menu board in front of you.

Oh, you want to divide numbers? That will be $5 please.

stevelam
Mar 30, 2012, 10:47 AM
I also don't prefer this system.
This way, they can add a new set of brushes next month for another charge.
Let me pay a single amount for the app and any additions are included.
This nickel and dime-ing is so customer unfriendly to me.

It would be like running Excel and seeing a menu board in front of you.

Oh, you want to divide numbers? That will be $5 please.

thats ridiculous. you buy what you need instead of paying for fluff you don't use. makes total sense to me. a fundamental function like dividing in an excel app isn't even close to a proper analogy. seriously it just sounds downright silly. the paper app as it is, is fully functional. additional brushes just add *more* functionality.

put it this way, if the app were 9.99 right out of the gate, i probably would have been extremely curious about it but not enough to outright pay for it. since its free, i actually get to try it out (plus all the brushes are actually testable right in the app as well) and have since purchased the ones i wanted, without paying for the others.

thelead
Mar 30, 2012, 11:11 AM
This is like a 'lite' version(without the ads) and if you want a full version, pay for it.

Custom colours... Blend them, get creative. It's simplicity at its best.

$8 and you have to "get creative" to make colors in a drawing app? No thanks. Watch them add different color packs for even more money. $2 for a pastel pack, $2 more for a neon pack, $2 more for a skin tone pack................

jbimler
Mar 30, 2012, 11:40 AM
I like the app. I don't have a problem with the IAP because I wouldn't use all the option regardless. The drawing is very tight even with my finger. Makes me wish draw something was optimized like this.

thelead
Mar 30, 2012, 11:47 AM
I will say, their pen/finger tracking technology is top notch. Very fluid.

BJMRamage
Mar 30, 2012, 12:38 PM
interesting.

Watched their site video. saw FREE. was interested but thought how could they? wait, i bet there are In-App Purchases sure enough there are.

so, rather than be too excited i am holding back. I KNOW many drawing apps do IAP and that seems the norm but from what I read you only get one brush now? I'd like a "standard" set. even if only 3-4 brushes. then options to buy more. plus this can sure make the price of the app "go up".

I have Sketchbook Pro on sale and have yet to add anything else...that is nice because this FREE model the app will never go on sale and the brushes most likely won't either.

So, all that said, even though Free, i will no investigate further.

Oh, and you can test a brush before you Buy It??
that's nice if so.

Zimmy68
Mar 30, 2012, 12:53 PM
thats ridiculous. you buy what you need instead of paying for fluff you don't use. makes total sense to me. a fundamental function like dividing in an excel app isn't even close to a proper analogy. seriously it just sounds downright silly. the paper app as it is, is fully functional. additional brushes just add *more* functionality.

put it this way, if the app were 9.99 right out of the gate, i probably would have been extremely curious about it but not enough to outright pay for it. since its free, i actually get to try it out (plus all the brushes are actually testable right in the app as well) and have since purchased the ones i wanted, without paying for the others.

Ok, let's try another example.
Let's say Adobe gives Photoshop for free.
But every time you want to use a tool, different brush size, transform, extract the image...

A nice little box comes up and says, that will be $5, $10, $15, or whatever, each time.

It's my opinion.
If you use IAP to sell your app instead of the App Store proper, then I have no interest in your product.
It's a horrible business model and hope it dies a quick death.
If your app is good, people will pay for it.
By all means, offer a lite version or a timed version for people to get the feel but don't keep all the tools locked up behind the counter.

What's next? A subscription to use the app, $5 a month?
Nothing wrong with that, right? ;)

----------


Oh, and you can test a brush before you Buy It??
that's nice if so.

Nope.

Do you see in the video how they can blend colors?

Like to try that out to see how it works?

Too bad, pay up and pray it works as expected.

Great system.

j3yq
Mar 30, 2012, 12:54 PM
You have to pay monthly for Hulu and netflixs, obviously not what you meant but still same principle.

MadGoat
Mar 30, 2012, 02:22 PM
man you people are cheap. You spend hundreds of dollars on a phone(plus access fees), buy your flavoured ice-water frapacino that you'll just piss out in a few hours, but don't want to spend a few bucks on an app that you can use for hours/days/weeks/months ?

I have no problems paying for this app and rewarding the devs who spent a freaking long time working on this app... Wait, do you think these devs just fart out these apps for free? I'd love to see your face if your place of employment told you that you would be working for free.

cLin
Mar 30, 2012, 02:42 PM
Draw Something seems to be doing fine with their IAP. Want more colors? Pay for it.

Want more brushes in this? Pay for it. Like the above poster said, it's amazing the amount of bitching people do for IAP when you shell out so much money for the device. Think of this as the lite version, you even get to try out the IAP before buying which is better then most IAPs.

Also, the point of this app is the minimalistic approach, if you really want a full featured draw/sketching app, this is probably not the app for you.

Zimmy68
Mar 30, 2012, 02:57 PM
Typical straw man argument shining through.

No one is complaining about the price or is asking for the app for free.

I don't care about the price, I just don't want a la carte pricing.
I want to pay one price and have use of the app, is that so wrong?
Or does that make me cheap???

MadGoat
Mar 30, 2012, 03:11 PM
Typical straw man argument shining through.

No one is complaining about the price or is asking for the app for free.

I don't care about the price, I just don't want a la carte pricing.
I want to pay one price and have use of the app, is that so wrong?
Or does that make me cheap???

Buy the kit. It's one price and boom, you have full use of everything.

geiger167
Mar 30, 2012, 03:12 PM
Downloaded app, buy loads of art apps, like sketchbook pro and brushes, art rage etc. Binned it after a few minutes as the whole thing was just surface flash with no content underneath. Honestly, no colour palettes, zoom, brush types, brush size etc.
I did like the ink line flow, felt very natural, curves were nice and smooth, pencil also felt good, good cross hatch etc. Wasn't keen on the brush due to colour choice and the lack of control with the wetness of the watercolour effect, which felt like a flashy trick rather than tool for an artist.
Honestly, I feel the app has come to market a little early in its development and should have been refined a touch more :(

jbimler
Mar 30, 2012, 03:26 PM
How are you liking the Cosmanaut TS?

Zimmy68
Mar 30, 2012, 05:46 PM
Buy the kit. It's one price and boom, you have full use of everything.

Don't see any kit.

I see "essentials" but no description on what that is.

And I'm sure they have wording that with this "kit", any new paid content will be part of the deal, right?

No thanks.

I'm staying as far away from this business model as I can.
Enjoy the app, it's just not for me.

richpjr
Mar 30, 2012, 09:21 PM
Don't see any kit.

I see "essentials" but no description on what that is.

And I'm sure they have wording that with this "kit", any new paid content will be part of the deal, right?

No thanks.

I'm staying as far away from this business model as I can.
Enjoy the app, it's just not for me.

Essentials is the kit. I am still scratching my head over how it's different to pay $7.99 up front or $7.99 in app. As has been mentioned, you can try it out for free and move on if it's not for you - I prefer that myself. No wasted money up front. No obligation to buy anything later.

MadGoat
Mar 30, 2012, 10:13 PM
I am still scratching my head over how it's different to pay $7.99 up front or $7.99 in app.

You and me both... I assume that people immediately associate IAP with evil business model. In this case, it's not. In the cases of what companies like Zynga and EA do with charging real money for "jewels" or coins as the only means of advancing you in a never ending game(especially multi-player), that is evil.

I personally would pay another $5 for a pallet and such... But that's just me thanking the small time devs for continuing updates to their software.

thelead
Mar 30, 2012, 10:29 PM
Essentials is the kit. I am still scratching my head over how it's different to pay $7.99 up front or $7.99 in app. As has been mentioned, you can try it out for free and move on if it's not for you - I prefer that myself. No wasted money up front. No obligation to buy anything later.

OR they could have put out a free version like they did with the limited functionality and a paid for version where people don't feel like they'll have to keep on buying and buying. Obviously you don't see the other side and are not going to change anyone's mind.

I respect your decision, you should respect those that don't care for IAP. It really isn't that big of a deal anyways. Those that don't care for the business model will just move on and those that don't mind will support it.

jawss
Mar 30, 2012, 10:33 PM
interesting.

Oh, and you can test a brush before you Buy It??
that's nice if so.

Yes there is..min the in app store there there's a try button so you can see what the pen looks like..

Personally I like the in app purchase because of how youcan buy just the tools you need. Each of the tools are really well made. Theyre actually spending time in optimizing each brush making it look right which is why i think its justified that they charge for it. (not like other apps that seem to just throw standard brushes in and they look the same in every app, these actually look different) I read (http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/29/2909537/paper-drawing-ipad-app-fiftythree-brains-behind-courier) they are planning to make more tools in the future for specialized fields/functions and I think that's awesome.

If you look at the support page they already are trying to figure out what the best way to support colors are. I don't think they limited the colors to charge for the in the future but to keep the app simple and not as daunting as the sketch apps that have too many options.

Agree that this is one implementation of IAP that actually makes sense.

richpjr
Mar 30, 2012, 11:48 PM
OR they could have put out a free version like they did with the limited functionality and a paid for version where people don't feel like they'll have to keep on buying and buying. Obviously you don't see the other side and are not going to change anyone's mind.

I respect your decision, you should respect those that don't care for IAP. It really isn't that big of a deal anyways. Those that don't care for the business model will just move on and those that don't mind will support it.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just trying to understand why people seem to be so put off by it. If I want the full functionality of it, I pay the $7.99 regardless of whether I pay in app or before hand. Someone people seem to insinuate that this will lead to being required to pay money downstream for future features. The developer may or may not choose to do that. That doesn't change what you are paying for and using now. Other developers give stuff away for free and others repackage it slightly and re-sell it. In the end, it's no difference to my wallet which is all I care about.

Keep one thing in mind though - from a developer's point of view, it costs more money and takes more time to support two different versions than a single one with options.

But clearly that model seems to annoy you enough to choose something different, which is certainly your prerogative.

Cheers.

kvizzel
Mar 30, 2012, 11:54 PM
So a free app with in app purchases(With a limited try before you buy), or a fully paid app that you cannot even try beforehand and might totally hate... I think the former sounds like a much better option.

I dislike IAP for junk like jewels, coins or anything that diminishes as you use it.


I've been using the app since it came out... it's honestly the best $8 I've spent.

in app purchases is a rip off, over time you just keep sinking money into it and they release new stuff.

while a one time payment, boom. updates for life you know?

richpjr
Mar 31, 2012, 12:07 AM
in app purchases is a rip off, over time you just keep sinking money into it and they release new stuff.

while a one time payment, boom. updates for life you know?

Unless they repackage it slightly and make you buy it again - something like with Angry Birds. But we all vote with our wallets on what we like.

kvizzel
Mar 31, 2012, 12:17 AM
Unless they repackage it slightly and make you buy it again - something like with Angry Birds. But we all vote with our wallets on what we like.

yep, my money does the talking :D

pretty cool app otherwise.

richpjr
Mar 31, 2012, 12:31 AM
Double post.

liquidsuns
Mar 31, 2012, 02:33 AM
The one thing I'm really not liking about this app is the inability to zoom.

tonyz3
Mar 31, 2012, 09:55 AM
Thanks for bringing this app to my attention. Love it and did not mind the IAP. I would even consider more.

hitekalex
Mar 31, 2012, 01:06 PM
It's a wonderful app, pleasure to use and look at.. Every little thing is executed with great degree of care and attention to detail.

I do not understand people complaining about IAP.. The base app is free. If you like what you see and need more than an included ink pen - pay $7.99 for the entire set of brushes.. or buy individual brushes you want for $1.99 each.

The app also allows you to try out extra brushes before you buy. So you know EXACTLY what you are paying for, before you do. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Some people just like to moan and complain about every thing, sad really :rolleyes:

rgr555
Apr 3, 2012, 11:43 AM
The one thing I'm really not liking about this app is the inability to zoom.

same

but thats the beauty of this app
im sure they could have easily added that but they want you to keep your drawings simple. but if enough customers complain they'll probably add it.

http://blog.fiftythree.com/

i love this app, best app on my ipad even though they bait and switched me lol

making good use of my wacom bamboo stylus too

(I think their ink Pen "brush" is hard to write with though, surprisingly)

Oppressed
Apr 3, 2012, 09:59 PM
The in app purchases is actually a good idea. There are a dime a dozen drawing apps on the app store and it is very hard to tell the quality of one vs another unless you commit to buying the app. To be honest if Paper had an upfront cost of 4.99 or more I would not have bought it. Because it was free to start I was able to try it out, see the quality of the app, and made the confident decision to purchase just the tools I would use. Which for me was the pencil and writing pen. Therefore in the end the developer got some of my money, and I have a sketching app that beats out all other drawing apps by a long shot. Seriously the pencil is amazing.

MadGoat
Apr 3, 2012, 11:18 PM
same

but thats the beauty of this app
im sure they could have easily added that but they want you to keep your drawings simple. but if enough customers complain they'll probably add it.


Normally I would agree, but when I am trying to join two lines, it sometimes gets hard to have pin point accuracy... Or rather, see exactly where the middle of your stylus is pointing to. so a zoom, or something like a little pop-up magnifier would rock.

richpjr
Apr 4, 2012, 12:12 AM
After playing around with the free version for a couple of days, I picked up all of the IAP to fill it out - the simple, elegant way this thing works just rocks!

Too bad they never came out with the Courier device - if it was anything like this it would have been a killer device.

iSee
Apr 4, 2012, 12:42 AM
I'm not a huge fan of iap, but with this one you get everything for $8.
(they could add more In the future, but it doesn't make sense to worry about what they might do in the future.)

I got the whole deal a few days ago. It's a great app. I don't normally like minimalist apps, but when the goal is to mimic the beauty of a blank piece of paper and your favorite pen/pencil/marker/brush it works great. The palette is by far the most annoying thing. Some times I'm in a primary colors mood!

Penultimate is still my go-to notes app, but Paper has its place.

richpjr
Apr 4, 2012, 01:26 AM
I believe I read on their forums that they will be expanding the color selection in the future and will not charge for it.

i0Nic
Apr 4, 2012, 02:19 AM
How are you liking the Cosmanaut TS?

I really like it as it feels like you are holding a marker rather than a precision pen which makes sense for the iPad screen. However for more detailed work I feel that a stylus like the Bamboo would be better, so I may pick this one up as well.

For writing, sketching and outlining the Cosmonaut is fantastic. I love the feel of it in hand and it's also very durable. You can just throw it in a bag and not worry.

rgr555
Apr 4, 2012, 07:02 AM
Normally I would agree, but when I am trying to join two lines, it sometimes gets hard to have pin point accuracy... Or rather, see exactly where the middle of your stylus is pointing to. so a zoom, or something like a little pop-up magnifier would rock.

How can you agree normally if you are saying you need pin-point accuracy. Like I said, this app is about simplicity. Pin-point accuracy isn't in their vocabulary.

I do want a zoom function but at the same time I don't want to feel like I'm in a professional drawing app. I want to feel like I'm doing a quick sketch.

Bc of this I feel the essence of the app is a catch-22.[COLOR="#808080"]

GoCubsGo
Apr 4, 2012, 07:07 AM
I believe I read on their forums that they will be expanding the color selection in the future and will not charge for it.

If they do expand and then do charge I think that would piss off a lot of people. I bought the full package but I don't think I'd appreciate having to get an expanded color package. The app is priced just fine, it's the fact that it is not an up front cost that seem to piss people off. Likewise, if it were then they'd probably bitch about not having a lite version.

MadGoat
Apr 4, 2012, 02:20 PM
How can you agree normally if you are saying you need pin-point accuracy. Like I said, this app is about simplicity. Pin-point accuracy isn't in their vocabulary.

I do want a zoom function but at the same time I don't want to feel like I'm in a professional drawing app. I want to feel like I'm doing a quick sketch.

Bc of this I feel the essence of the app is a catch-22.[COLOR="#808080"]

What I meant is that I would normally agree to keep this app as simple as possible, but when I have undo a line a few times because the stylus has to be as fat as a finger to work, unlike say the galaxy note with it's pen tip sized 'pen tip', a zoom feature is needed to get the center where you need it.

ElCidRo
Apr 6, 2012, 02:22 AM
This is one of the BEST apps for the iPad out now.
And the pricing model makes sense to me. You get a fully functional FREE app !!! And if you want you can buy more tools. And you can buy only the ones you need! How great is that.And you get to TRY all the tools FOR FREE. You know EXACTLY what you are paying for. And if they choose to update the app with more tools in the future, GREAT! Bring it on! :)

I even bought the brushes I don't actually need to support this dev. I really look forward to see what updates or new apps they come up with! One of my new fav devs!

I took the iPad to work yesterday and showed the app to my coworkers. I think two of them want to buy an iPad now! They were amazed at the quality of the drawings they could make :)

As you can tell I'm pretty ecstatic with this app! :D

Layth
Apr 6, 2012, 05:07 AM
For me this is the app I wanted Penultimate to be but even better. I have dedicated drawing apps and ones for note taking. Paper is kinda like middle ground. All the app is really missing is better export options, cloud storage for back-up, and the ability to move pages around.

More colors, zoom and paper types would be nice but I don't really need them.

rgr555
Apr 6, 2012, 06:18 AM
less is more with Paper by 53

Peter Harrison
Apr 6, 2012, 06:41 AM
$8 and you have to "get creative" to make colors in a drawing app? No thanks. Watch them add different color packs for even more money. $2 for a pastel pack, $2 more for a neon pack, $2 more for a skin tone pack................

Just to clarify, they have stated that custom colours are being considered, and that they will never charge for addition of colours. According to the team, they want to be paid for their hard work. The algorithms they've designed for the different pens took a lot of work, so they charge. But adding a colour or allowing custom colours will be really easy for them to implement, so they see that as a definite free update if it happens.

mattraehl
Apr 6, 2012, 07:29 AM
The model they chose is great in my opinion. They've really done some incredible work with the individual tools, and the ability to see them in action before paying helps you see exactly what you will be buying. I would never have even tried the app if it was $8. But now I'm ordering a stylus.

I think they knew that they had really done something new in terms of the quality of the tools, and people would need to see it to believe it.

I would have no problem if they release a new tool and charge $1.99 for it. I am fine with paying for new features that add value to an app, when the developer has spent significant time to create them. Pay-once-upgrade-forever works in some contexts but it can also lead to abandoned apps.

Regardless of what they have said about new color pallets, it's obvious to me that they wouldn't charge for them. It would be an incredibly cynical thing to do and they would get a huge backlash from customers.

rgr555
Apr 7, 2012, 10:25 AM
sigh, the new "update" really didn't fix or add anything

infowarfare
Apr 8, 2012, 02:46 PM
sigh, the new "update" really didn't fix or add anything

My god man, this app just came out and this is only their first minor update and it DID include bug fixes, the ability to save to the camera roll (with or without background) twitter options... this sense of entitlement people have these days is just so out of control! Over an app!? :rolleyes:

richpjr
Apr 8, 2012, 07:39 PM
sigh, the new "update" really didn't fix or add anything

You must have missed the release notes...

i0Nic
Apr 10, 2012, 12:49 AM
After using this for a week, I seem to be loving it more each day.

I've actually started to learn to draw using the app, posted some of my drawings to my tumblr, it's a great way to get creative.

I hope they keep the app simple and not overload it with features. I would like to see a better undo feature, some more pen varieties, wrist protection and *maybe* a zoom feature. I'd be pretty happy with that.

rgr555
Apr 10, 2012, 06:52 PM
My god man, this app just came out and this is only their first minor update and it DID include bug fixes, the ability to save to the camera roll (with or without background) twitter options... this sense of entitlement people have these days is just so out of control! Over an app!? :rolleyes:

lol power+home button saves image to camera roll already

all this patch did was add a 53 logo on top right

but im sure 1.1 should bring new features

anjinha
Apr 10, 2012, 11:04 PM
Don't see any kit.

I see "essentials" but no description on what that is.

And I'm sure they have wording that with this "kit", any new paid content will be part of the deal, right?

No thanks.

I'm staying as far away from this business model as I can.
Enjoy the app, it's just not for me.

And what's keeping any developer from charging for an app and then adding IAPs later on for new features?