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Ariii
Apr 6, 2012, 02:11 PM
I am going to need a server computer to host my website, and I'm expecting only my friends to visit it, so requirements don't matter that much. I'm hosting it myself due to the lack of cheaper server-side JavaScript solutions, and I'm looking for the cheapest Mac I can find. I think I want a Mac to do it because I know a lot less about PC's. Iwant to use one of the PowerMacs, but on eBay, the pricing is surprisingly higher compared to the all-in-ones, and the all-in-ones also happen to be the majority. Which kind of computer would be the best for hosting this kind of website, and what would be the best way to get one?



Intell
Apr 6, 2012, 02:14 PM
You'll want to use something that does make lots of noise or use lots of power. I suggest a G4 Mac Mini, PowerBook G4, iBook G4, or a G4 Cube. Powermacs can be very noisy and use a lot of power.

Nameci
Apr 6, 2012, 02:17 PM
If you really wanted a powerpc then, best choice would be a powerpc mac mini, with external storage on firewire, you can run it headless via screen sharing.

SkyBell
Apr 6, 2012, 02:17 PM
Gotta agree with a Mac mini, they're wonderfully quiet and power efficient, and they'll easily handle small personal websites. I don't know about up front cost however, I haven't checked G4 mini prices in a while. (Though IIRC they used to go for about $300 two or three years ago, bet they'd probably be under $200 if you look hard enough.)

p4madeus
Apr 6, 2012, 02:21 PM
Find a PowerBook or MacBook with a broken screen on eBay...they can be had for under $200 and you can attach any external monitor or TV with a cheap adapter... and once you have it set up you can access it with screen sharing from another computer. Low power usage since it's a laptop and built in UPS, keyboard, and mouse. Good power/price ratio.

Look under the Apple Laptops section on eBay, search PowerBook or MacBook, sort ending soonest, and set max price at $200, you'll find plenty. Just look for ones which work but have a broken screen or burnt out backlight as the only thing wrong with them, it chops the price considerably for an otherwise functional computer.

SkyBell
Apr 6, 2012, 02:25 PM
Find a PowerBook or MacBook with a broken screen on eBay...they can be had for under $200 and you can attach any external monitor or TV with a cheap adapter. Low power usage since it's a laptop and built in UPS. Good power/price ratio.
Look under the Apple Laptops section on eBay, search PowerBook or MacBook, sort ending soonest, and set max price at $200, you'll find plenty. Just look for ones which work but have a broken screen or burnt out backlight as the only thing wrong with them, it chops the price considerably for an otherwise functional computer.

Not a bad idea either, I've done this before. Four or five years ago, you could get an iBook G3 with broken screen for less then $100, which was an amazing deal at the time, when similar spec'd desktops went for $150.

Ariii
Jul 9, 2012, 05:41 PM
Hi! I haven't gotten to buying a server until now. Well, in a couple days a good deal for a 1 GHz TiBook (Also has 1 GB RAM) will end (About $50), but my family got a new Mac. It's a solo Core Duo Mac Mini at 1.66 GHz, and it has Mac OS X 10.4. I can't change anything about it, except put Apache software on it to host 2 websites and an IRC server with ~7 channels. One of the websites would be a forum that uses server-side JavaScript and has about 60 users, and the other would be a blog, and none of them would have videos. I was planning to use the TiBook as a main laptop after it's done as a server (I have a 1.0 GHz AlBook that I would sell once that's over). My sisters use it with Flash gaming, streaming YouTube/Pandora, and eMail most of the time, and it gets use about 10 hours a day. I also am burning a lot of CD's on it as the external HDD that used to house a 200GB+ iTunes collection just died. I'm afraid that it might interfere with how well it performs as a server, and having it as a server might affect its performance as a personal PC.

zen.state
Jul 9, 2012, 10:12 PM
You'll want to use something that does make lots of noise or use lots of power. I suggest a G4 Mac Mini, PowerBook G4, iBook G4, or a G4 Cube. Powermacs can be very noisy and use a lot of power.

A Cube actually uses a tad more power than a Sawtooth or Gigabit Ethernet tower. The Cube's have either a 205 or 225 vs. 200 watts in those two G4 towers.

When you're talking about a server the main concern should be how robust the hardware is. A Cube, mini or laptop are simply not built to run 24/7 and serve. You're also not saving power if you have to use externals for storage expansion. Not an issue and no extra power drain to add extra drives in a tower. Towers are built around expansion which is something even a small server needs.

A G4 tower or even a B&W G3 are far far more robust and have all the power you need to serve on a small scale with no hardware upgrades at all. You can even make it headless and remove the video card so it draws even less power. My old B&W G3 is now with my aunt has been running 24/7 since it was bought new in Aug 1999. So thats 13 years next month.

In todays computing world a 200 watt PSU with no video card to power would make a very decently efficient server power wise.

Intell
Jul 9, 2012, 10:40 PM
A Cube actually uses a tad more power than a Sawtooth or Gigabit Ethernet tower. The Cube's have either a 205 or 225 vs. 200 watts in those two G4 towers.

I've measured my Cube's power usage and I've never seen it go above 55 watts. This is with a 7200rpm drive, a fan, a non-stock CPU, and a GeForce 2 MX with a VGA display attached. It idles around 40 watts. A more correct state would be that the G4 Cube can use more power than a Sawtooth or a Gigabit Ethernet. Even with a 23" Cinema HD Display attached to the ADC port, it won't top 135 watts. Maybe Apple intended to design much bigger ADC displays at one point. That's the only reason I can think of for giving the Cube such a overly powerful power supply.

zen.state
Jul 9, 2012, 11:40 PM
I've measured my Cube's power usage and I've never seen it go above 55 watts. This is with a 7200rpm drive, a fan, a non-stock CPU, and a GeForce 2 MX with a VGA display attached. It idles around 40 watts. A more correct state would be that the G4 Cube can use more power than a Sawtooth or a Gigabit Ethernet. Even with a 23" Cinema HD Display attached to the ADC port, it won't top 135 watts. Maybe Apple intended to design much bigger ADC displays at one point. That's the only reason I can think of for giving the Cube such a overly powerful power supply.

Well any computer only draws the watts it needs. That kind of goes without saying. The important points are what I mention after that first line.

Video cards are one of the biggest power drains so a headless tower with no vid card would be close to a fully armed Cube in power consumption. Servers don't need a screen at all. Just VNC into it.

A server needs two fundamental things... reliability and expansion. A tower is a much better choice for both.

Intell
Jul 10, 2012, 12:18 AM
A server in a home environment, like what I think Ariii is going after, has to be quite, cool, and power efficient. Cubes have no fans, can run cool, are small, and can be very efficient with power use. I've known them to be robust enough for 24/7 server duty or 24/7 video encoding. Their only disadvantage for server duty is lack of internal expandability, something that doesn't appear to be a problem for Ariii's needs.

wobegong
Jul 10, 2012, 04:43 AM
I have my old Aluminium (Intel) Macbook permanently hooked up to my 40" TV round the back and running BBC iPlayer (through a UK VPN connection), Transmission, PS3 MediaServer 24x7 and iTunes home sharing - all this in an apartment that doesn't have aircon during the day (live in Manila so it's hot).

I do have the lid open to aid airflow but touch wood so far no problems after 12 months or so except for one......... with the heat the Battery bulged up/deformed and died so consider this maybe if you are in a hot climate and want to use a laptop. (I didn't replace the battery as not deemed necessary to have one for this setup).

P.S. Use Mobile Mouse Pro (iPhone app) to control it which is fine for what I use it for but no doubt not very elegant for Web Site hosting changes etc.

Ariii
Jul 10, 2012, 07:24 PM
Well any computer only draws the watts it needs. That kind of goes without saying. The important points are what I mention after that first line.

Video cards are one of the biggest power drains so a headless tower with no vid card would be close to a fully armed Cube in power consumption. Servers don't need a screen at all. Just VNC into it.

A server needs two fundamental things... reliability and expansion. A tower is a much better choice for both.

Umm... so, should I get the 1 GHz TiBook or the 1.66 GHz Core Duo Mac Mini that gets very heavy use and is about to run Snow Leopard, and currently runs Tiger? I was going to use a command-line Linux distro and use the 80 GB hard-drive with the TiBook I was about to purchase? I only have two hours to decide, sorry!

zen.state
Jul 10, 2012, 07:32 PM
Umm... so, should I get the 1 GHz TiBook or the 1.66 GHz Core Duo Mac Mini that gets very heavy use and is about to run Snow Leopard, and currently runs Tiger? I was going to use a command-line Linux distro and use the 80 GB hard-drive with the TiBook I was about to purchase? I only have two hours to decide, sorry!

I still say a Sawtooth or GE but between those 2 the mini is a much better choice to serve. The PowerBooks screen is really unneeded for what is essentially going to be a "dumb box" and you can remote into it.

Simply ask yourself how important a built in screen is to you.

Ariii
Jul 10, 2012, 07:47 PM
I still say a Sawtooth or GE but between those 2 the mini is a much better choice to serve. The PowerBooks screen is really unneeded for what is essentially going to be a "dumb box" and you can remote into it.

Simply ask yourself how important a built in screen is to you.

Thanks!
Oh, the hinge has a slight problem that's inexpensive to fix, so I'd be running it in clamshell mode. Would it make much of a difference if it gets heavy use by my sisters? Occasionally, it can get to the point where the OS becomes unresponsive, and I'd have to use an external drive (A 32 GB flash drive, probably) since it doesn't have much space. I don't have it completely ready so I can't really test it on the Mini. Should the Mini be okay with the heavy use? I was also planning to use the TiBook as my main laptop after I'm done with it as a server. Part of the reason why I want to have a separate computer to host it is because I would rather use a lightweight CLI-only Linux installation and because it wouldn't be used for anything else in that case. I have parts to swap out that I can use on the TiBook, by the way, and 80 GB of storage space, which would definitely be enough. I don't think I have that much time, and I'm getting a great deal on the TiBook. Any advice?

Ariii
Jul 21, 2012, 09:52 PM
Bump.

Retina MacBook
Jul 21, 2012, 11:48 PM
Why PowerPc, exactly? The Intel Macs are much more powerful. More capable. Better.

PowerPC is just... Outdated. Abandoned. Forgotten.

Intell
Jul 22, 2012, 12:01 AM
Why? The old stuff is still very capable. Just because something is old, doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of. PowerPC Macs maybe less powerful then most Intell based Macs, but they represent the pinnacle of Apple's design. They are not outdated to those that use them on a regular basis. Leopard is still very able and its abilities do not hamper PowerPC Macs. Many in this thread still use PPC Macs daily. They are reliable, cheap, powerful, able, and good looking. Many in this thread will continue to use their PPC Mac until they can no longer due to lack of parts. They are hardly forgotten or abandoned.

goMac
Jul 22, 2012, 12:07 AM
Honestly, what it sounds like you're doing would only take 1%-2% cpu usage. Buying a second Mac when you have a Mini you could use (even if it will be used for other things) sounds like overkill.

I've seen machines that have far less processing power than the Mini host over 500 email accounts.

Ariii
Jul 22, 2012, 12:07 AM
Why PowerPc, exactly? The Intel Macs are much more powerful. More capable. Better.

PowerPC is just... Outdated. Abandoned. Forgotten.

For buying hardware directly from the Apple Store, I would have to pay a $800+ premium. At least $300 for used Intel hardware. And I can pick up a PowerPC that does anything I need it to for around $70, so I'm pretty good with that, and it looks way nicer than most things I can find today.

I wouldn't say that. I can't really think of much I couldn't do on most PowerPC's except for video streaming, which I don't use frequently, and can just use the mobile version of YouTube if I really have to.

As for the server... it's just a server. I already have knowledge of Mac hardware and software, but the websites I'm hosting are barely complicated at all, so mostly anything made in the last 12 years will work for me. I just need low power consumption and silence.

Honestly, what it sounds like you're doing would only take 1%-2% cpu usage. Buying a second Mac when you have a Mini you could use (even if it will be used for other things) sounds like overkill.

I've seen machines that have far less processing power than the Mini host over 500 email accounts.

Oh, I've never done hosting before, even though I have the knowledge to design simple websites. I never knew it had such light requirements, thanks! I'm also hosting another forum and a news website, so it might be a bit more, but I think it's lightweight enough. Thanks!

zen.state
Jul 22, 2012, 12:25 AM
It baffles me when the odd follow the leader type wanders into the PowerPC section and tells people it's outdated or whatever other blather they dish out. Why would anyone care what computer someone else uses? It's borderline creepy.

Do they plan of dropping by our homes to use our PowerPC systems? Why do they care?

Anyone who lets the industry tell them when to buy a new computer should never be so bold as to question another persons choice since they cannot even make a choice on their own.

To all those that wonder why or even how we can use PowerPC in 2012. It's a secret ingredient called "computer skills".

Ariii
Jul 22, 2012, 12:54 AM
It baffles me when the odd follow the leader type wanders into the PowerPC section and tells people it's outdated or whatever other blather they dish out. Why would anyone care what computer someone else uses? It's borderline creepy.

Do they plan of dropping by our homes to use our PowerPC systems? Why do they care?

Anyone who lets the industry tell them when to buy a new computer should never be so bold as to question another persons choice since they cannot even make a choice on their own.

To all those that wonder why or even how we can use PowerPC in 2012. It's a secret ingredient called "computer skills".

Somebody should make this a sticky.

Intell
Jul 22, 2012, 01:04 AM
Somebody should make this a sticky.

There was a similar anti-vintage Mac posting in another thread in the PPC section a few days ago: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1406271

AQUADock
Jul 22, 2012, 02:05 AM
There was a similar anti-vintage Mac posting in another thread in the PPC section a few days ago: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1406271

It's so annoying when some people do that here, it's like they need reassurance that their new computers are justified.

Nameci
Jul 22, 2012, 11:49 AM
Perhaps they have nothing to do more with whatever they have. Perhaps life is is boring with what they have.

goMac
Jul 22, 2012, 06:03 PM
Perhaps they have nothing to do more with whatever they have. Perhaps life is is boring with what they have.

Speaking as someone who has a small PowerPC collection but uses Intel Macs, and has disagreed with people recommending PowerPC Macs before...

My biggest issue is that PowerPC Macs typically require more... love, care and attention than Intels. If you know what you're getting into, that's awesome. But I see way too many times someone who doesn't know better, but is expecting the "Mac experience" is recommended a PowerPC Mac to save money.

I wouldn't recommend PowerPCs for that purpose. They can't run the latest software. They can't run normal Flash well. They can't be taken to the Apple store and repaired.

For power users that's ok. But for a recommendation to someone who want a machine that just works, and they can go to the store and buy software for, it's just a poor choice.

I guess my general problem is with people who have the attitude that Intel Macs and PowerPC Macs are for, all things considered, equal. You can throw blame at different parties around all you want, but at the end of the day they aren't.

Still love my PowerPCs as collectors items though. But they're old computers.

Nameci
Jul 22, 2012, 06:17 PM
I have a small PowerPC Mac collection as well as a couple of personal Intel Macs. But we will differ on our views about this PowerPC and Intel Macs.

I am currently on my PowerPC Mac writing this reply. My Intel Macs, I am watching hulu on it right now, and the other one is in my bag. The mini serves as a file server/media server, hulu/itunes box. Basically, that is what is its worth right now. Way overkill.

My PowerMac eventhough it is old but is used for work and worked well. A computer will never be too old unless your requirement tells you so.

goMac
Jul 22, 2012, 06:19 PM
I have a small PowerPC Mac collection as well as a couple of personal Intel Macs. But we will differ on our views about this PowerPC and Intel Macs.

I am currently on my PowerPC Mac writing this reply. My Intel Macs, I am watching hulu on it right now, and the other one is in my bag. The mini serves as a file server/media server, hulu/itunes box. Basically, that is what is its worth right now. Way overkill.

My PowerMac eventhough it is old but is used for work and worked well. A computer will never be too old unless your requirement tells you so.

Sure, but what if a PowerPC was your ONLY Mac?

The Hulu watching would probably not be happening.

Nameci
Jul 22, 2012, 06:21 PM
It is still possible. Hulu watching is still possible on a powerpc mac. Tried it.

goMac
Jul 22, 2012, 06:27 PM
It is still possible. Hulu watching is still possible on a powerpc mac. Tried it.

See, and that's where I begin to have issues.

If a PowerPC Mac is your only Mac, what's the YouTube experience like out of the box?

It's one thing if someone has an Intel Mac already. But it's another if a PowerPC is your only Mac. There are plenty of people here who have found software combinations and dark magic to keep their Macs going (and I don't mean that negatively), but for a normal user that's the sort of stuff that they shouldn't have to mess with if they own a Mac.

zen.state
Jul 22, 2012, 06:27 PM
Some like to play follow the leader and buy/use what the industry and their peers tell them. Others (like myself) prefer to pave my own computing path and I actually have hardware preferences that are based on a lot more than something as simple minded as speed.

A lot of people would be shocked at how many more computers skills you can acquire just from using older hardware in the modern world.

I do not use PowerPC at all because they're cheap. It's 100% pure hardware preference. I could afford multiple Mac Pro towers if I chose to buy them but I have no desire to own one.

As I have stated many times before... any computer is only as capable as the user.

Nameci
Jul 22, 2012, 08:29 PM
See, and that's where I begin to have issues.

If a PowerPC Mac is your only Mac, what's the YouTube experience like out of the box?

It's one thing if someone has an Intel Mac already. But it's another if a PowerPC is your only Mac. There are plenty of people here who have found software combinations and dark magic to keep their Macs going (and I don't mean that negatively), but for a normal user that's the sort of stuff that they shouldn't have to mess with if they own a Mac.

We are gone out of topic here, we can argue all day through and it does not answer the OP's questions.

He needs a powerpc mac for a server, and to add suggestions, for me it would be, the GigE G4, SawTooth or QS. They are not that much power hungry, you can equip it with a PCI SATA card and you can put multiple hard drives on it.

Ariii
Aug 1, 2012, 11:55 AM
We are gone out of topic here, we can argue all day through and it does not answer the OP's questions.

He needs a powerpc mac for a server, and to add suggestions, for me it would be, the GigE G4, SawTooth or QS. They are not that much power hungry, you can equip it with a PCI SATA card and you can put multiple hard drives on it.

Oh, thanks! I'm thinking of getting a dual SawTooth, how much power would you estimate it would take up without the video card (Also having a 20 GB HDD) running command-line Debian on 2 GB RAM, if that's possible?