PDA

View Full Version : FTC Complaint Filed Against Apple re Mac Pro




Torster
Apr 7, 2012, 07:11 PM
I just filed this complaint against Apple with the Federal Trade Commission:

Apple Inc. is engaged in deceptive marketing practices and false advertising specifically regarding their flagship computer, the Apple Mac Pro.

The current Mac Pro was released in July 2010:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Pro

However, Apple is still engaged in marketing the Mac Pro as a "new" product. There is nothing "new" about this nearly two-year system and advertising this item as "new" is patently false and deceptive.

You can see that Apple is actively marketing this item as "new" on one of the largest Apple-centric sites here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1359788/AppleFalseAd.jpg

MacNN receives 2,390,000 page views per month and the deceptive ad is on page one.

Apple needs to stop deceiving consumers regarding this old piece of technology.

For reference, its FTC complaint 36302883

TL



derbothaus
Apr 7, 2012, 07:16 PM
Isn't April 1st over already? Gotta love the legal systems.

CLuv
Apr 7, 2012, 07:31 PM
Enjoy your busted ass Dell sir.

Glen Quagmire
Apr 8, 2012, 06:27 AM
I just filed this complaint against Apple with the Federal Trade Commission:

Apple Inc. is engaged in deceptive marketing practices and false advertising specifically regarding their flagship computer, the Apple Mac Pro.

The current Mac Pro was released in July 2010:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Pro

However, Apple is still engaged in marketing the Mac Pro as a "new" product. There is nothing "new" about this nearly two-year system and advertising this item as "new" is patently false and deceptive.

You can see that Apple is actively marketing this item as "new" on one of the largest Apple-centric sites here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1359788/AppleFalseAd.jpg

MacNN receives 2,390,000 page views per month and the deceptive ad is on page one.

Apple needs to stop deceiving consumers regarding this old piece of technology.

For reference, its FTC complaint 36302883

TL

You need to get out more. Don't you have better things to do with your time?

milbournosphere
Apr 8, 2012, 06:46 AM
Come on, the FTC has better things to do. I could think of many more pressing matters I'd rather see the FTC concentrating on than an errant ad.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/183/923/Whywecanthavenice2.png?1318200747

bruinsrme
Apr 8, 2012, 07:04 AM
let me get this straight.

You wrote FTC regarding apple products?
flower delivery and fruit,, interesting.

Well the fruit part fits.

Now its going to cost more to buy apples and have flowers delivered :D

Puevlo
Apr 8, 2012, 07:08 AM
This is the reason the FTC exists in the first place. Fight the good fight.

SDAVE
Apr 8, 2012, 07:53 AM
They should at least lower the prices to keep current with how much it costs for the parts.

This has been standard Apple practice for a long time on their Mac line.

iOS devices are different since they keep being updated once a year.

paulrbeers
Apr 8, 2012, 08:39 AM
Boy I misread the title of this thread. I thought the FTC was actually getting involved and then I read the OP and realized it was just another joe nobody complaining that there hasnt been an update to the Mac Pro and actually thInks the FTC cares about his opinion....

DisMyMac
Apr 8, 2012, 08:49 AM
Sad that anyone would defend false advertizing like this. "New" is a relative term, but by any comparison that doesn't apply to the Mac Pro now or in years.

glutenenvy
Apr 8, 2012, 09:30 AM
You can see that Apple is actively marketing this item as "new" on one of the largest Apple-centric sites here:


When did the retail meaning of new change? Last I checked it meant not used when applied to purchasing products. New cars, new boats, and new underwear can and often all sit for years at the store and are legally sold as new products. Once sold to a customer all these products become used. You should pick at least one of these items to always buy new.

'A reasonable person' can see the ad shown doesn't say anything like 'new technology', just new. New Technology would have changed the meaning completely and have been closer to the assumption made by the person with the complaint.

rocknblogger
Apr 8, 2012, 09:48 AM
When did the retail meaning of new change? Last I checked it meant not used when applied to purchasing products. New cars, new boats, and new underwear can and often all sit for years at the store and are legally sold as new products. Once sold to a customer all these products become used. You should pick at least one of these items to always buy new.

'A reasonable person' can see the ad shown doesn't say anything like 'new technology', just new. New Technology would have changed the meaning completely and have been closer to the assumption made by the person with the complaint.

Actually it says "The new Mac Pro" not "A new Mac Pro". I can see how someone not familiar with the Mac Pro line (like a Windows user looking for a change) might think its a new release. Not sure it's worthy of FTC intervention though;)

dknightd
Apr 8, 2012, 11:39 AM
I just filed this complaint against Apple with the Federal Trade Commission:

Let us know how it turns out - Maybe they will change their advertising - seems like a waste of tax dollars to me unless you have been actually been harmed by their advertising

Medic278
Apr 8, 2012, 11:42 AM
I don't think it will change anything. I also don't think that it will force Apple to update. Interesting idea though filing an FTC complaint, just not sure what good its going to do for anyone.

swordfish5736
Apr 8, 2012, 11:53 AM
It is technically a new Mac pro there is no legal time limit on how old it has to be before it is no longer "new" there is not a newer version of the computer therefor it is still the new Mac pro. You can complain all you want that they haven't refreshed it but the FTC won't do anything about it. If they had updated it last summer would you also be the same one to cry and complain that it wasn't a "worthy" update? Do you really think apple would release an update if the hardware they want isnt ready?

Bubba Satori
Apr 8, 2012, 12:10 PM
At least Apple didn't say new & improved.

Hey, whatever happened to the I'm a Mac ads?
Hello, tap tap tap, is this thing on?

rawdawg
Apr 8, 2012, 12:39 PM
I, for one, REALLY LOVE Torster for doing this!

Torster, thank you for finding this creative way to get Apple's attention. I've called Apple and written feedback on their site numerous time asking for a sliver of professional respect and have never received a response.

Groanan
Apr 8, 2012, 02:25 PM
This case really does not have any merit because of the price of the goods and the nature of those who buy the MacPro.

The FTC (or a court of law) would consider the customers and the likelihood of confusion (and for this complaint to have merit the confusion would have to be a deciding factor for why a customer would purchase the MacPro, and its falseness would have to cause the consumer damage).

So what do we know about MacPro consumers?

1. Not children, as children typically do not have the cash to spend on such machines, and they are not advertised to children ( yes, on the performance page under "Graphics" it does list Call of Duty 4 and Portal performance; but there are no pictures of the characters and none of the front pages list anything gaming related: http://www.apple.com/macpro/performance.html ).

2. They are spending a lot of money; lowest priced option is $2.5k, by it costing so much it is more likely that someone spending that amount of money would do some research into the quality of the product on the marketplace compared to other computers with similar specifications.

3. Professionals; Design/Features/Performance/The Environment/Tech Specs, looking at the language of the advert pages, and what is being focused on, it is clear that they are targeting professionals with technical knowledge - these are the types of customers who are not confused by terms like "new."

Show through statistically significant polling that 10% of MacPro buyers are actually only buying the machine because they think it is "new," and that they think "new" means it has only been on the market place for a short while (months?), and maybe there is a reason here for the FTC to get involved.

fox10078
Apr 8, 2012, 03:22 PM
You should be ashamed of yourself, you're wasting taxpayer money and the courts time. This whole thing just screams of massive immaturaity.

Cindori
Apr 8, 2012, 04:32 PM
Red bull gives you wings and the 2010 Mac Pro is new.

Nothing will happen, but maybe stuff like this can open Apple's eyes a bit more

Someone should start a online petition, like we did back when the 8800GT was released but not for Mac Pro 2006. we made a petition that got like 50 000 signatures or something, and the 8800GT came a few months later.

Slow Programmer
Apr 8, 2012, 05:13 PM
Unless a lot of people that have purchased a Mac Pro think they were mislead by the advertising the FTC will do absolutely nothing.

linuxcooldude
Apr 8, 2012, 06:30 PM
Red bull gives you wings and the 2010 Mac Pro is new.

I'm upset Red Bull does not give me wings! Now I have to pay for an airplane ticket.

xgman
Apr 8, 2012, 06:59 PM
Seems a bit of a stretch to say the least, but I guess the point was to make some noise, like all these other threads. It's frustrating.

Torster
Apr 8, 2012, 11:23 PM
So what do we know about MacPro consumers?

1. Not children
2. They are spending a lot of money
3. Professionals


Right on all three--so they can stop with the marketing nonsense.

They can sell the current Mac Pro for the next 10 years. Just don't call a 2-year old product new. They just need to change the ad. Problem solved.

TL

----------

Enjoy your busted ass Dell sir.

Who's using a Dell? You? Definitely not me.

I'd rather have a truly new Mac Pro. In the absence of that, they just need to stop marketing the current one as "new" because its not.

The iPhone and iPad are updated every 12 months. Those are new. The Mac Pro is not.

TL

----------

Don't you have better things to do with your time?

Took me about 10 minutes at the FTC website.

TL

Torster
Apr 8, 2012, 11:38 PM
the FTC has better things to do.

No, they don't.

Consumer protection is why they exist.

TL

----------

just another joe nobody complaining that there hasnt been an update to the Mac Pro and actually thInks the FTC cares about his opinion....


I guess everyone here who cares about the Mac Pro is a joe nobody.

If that's the case, why are you here wasting your own time?

TL

leftywamumonkey
Apr 8, 2012, 11:41 PM
There's no time stamp on your picture advertising the new Mac Pro. That picture could have been taken after launch for all we know. :confused:

It is technically a new Mac pro there is no legal time limit on how old it has to be before it is no longer "new" there is not a newer version of the computer therefor it is still the new Mac pro. You can complain all you want that they haven't refreshed it but the FTC won't do anything about it.

^^ This.

Also why are you so upset about the whole thing? One would think that before spending $2500+ on a computer they would at least know the specs and the hardware. Did Apple fool you when they advertised the Mac Pro as new just recently?

Torster
Apr 8, 2012, 11:47 PM
New cars, new boats, and new underwear can and often all sit for years at the store and are legally sold as new products.


Technically, that would make a Ford Pinto "new" if it was still sitting on a lot somewhere unsold...

TL

----------

There's no time stamp on your picture advertising the new Mac Pro. That picture could have been taken after launch for all we know.

Check it out for yourself. Its up now:

http://www.macnn.com

TL

Zwhaler
Apr 8, 2012, 11:48 PM
Good luck with that.

ClassObject
Apr 8, 2012, 11:55 PM
I call BS on this. Can't understand why anyone would waste time like this.

Torster
Apr 9, 2012, 12:13 AM
I don't think it will change anything. I also don't think that it will force Apple to update. Interesting idea though filing an FTC complaint, just not sure what good its going to do for anyone.

What's so wrong about a company listening to their customer base?

Its reported that Steve Jobs was fond of quoting Henry Ford's quote: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse."

Sorry, but we're not all completely unworthy of having our opinions checked every now and then. If Apple had talked to their user base, they wouldn't have released the Final Cut Pro X disaster:

http://jefferyharrell.tumblr.com/post/6830049685/what-went-wrong-with-final-cut-pro-x

Or watch this if you're impatient:

http://youtu.be/VXepNCs_iZo

TL

----------

I call BS on this. Can't understand why anyone would waste time like this.

Again, this took 10 minutes of time on the FTC website. They'll never act on it.

That's not the point. Its the principal.

What used to be their flagship product is totally devoid of improvement. That would be fine if no one used it anymore. But that's not the case--there are still hundreds of thousands of users for this product.

TL

----------

Also why are you so upset about the whole thing?

Lefty,

You're own signature says "Please don't discontinue the Mac Pro!"

TL

----------

Nothing will happen, but maybe stuff like this can open Apple's eyes a bit more


Cindori,

Thank you for recognizing this effort for what it is.

If users don't care about this product line, then why should Apple?

TL

----------

Good luck with that.

Thanks Zwhaler :)

TL

goMac
Apr 9, 2012, 02:29 AM
Gotta get my post in for the most rediculous thread I've seen here yet...

GermanyChris
Apr 9, 2012, 04:25 AM
[QUOTE=Torster;14688769]Technically, that would make a Ford Pinto "new" if it was still sitting on a lot somewhere unsold...

TL[COLOR="#808080"]

it would be new and quite valuable..

Feed Me
Apr 9, 2012, 04:35 AM
Meanwhile, at the FTC

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_255/1207528452P32K94.jpg

Nightarchaon
Apr 9, 2012, 05:01 AM
as there is not a newer, mac, then the term NEW still applies , its only not NEW if it has been replaced by a newer model,

there going to laugh, for about 5 seconds, then bin the complaint.

thekev
Apr 9, 2012, 05:08 AM
as there is not a newer, mac, then the term NEW still applies , its only not NEW if it has been replaced by a newer model,

there going to laugh, for about 5 seconds, then bin the complaint.

They might also laugh at the use of "there" in place of the contraction "they're":rolleyes:. How do we all forget things that we learned in second grade?

gpzjock
Apr 9, 2012, 05:41 AM
I think anyone who has looked at this thread is as frustrated as the OP that Apple are still flogging a 2010 dead horse when much better CPUs and other hardware are now available.
To launch a FTC complaint about the use of the word New being misleading is amusing at best.
One of the many definitions of "new" is:
12. new: In the most recent form, period, or development.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/new
The 2010 Mac Pro is exactly that.... till the next one.

My GF's 10 year old son bought a can of Fanta (c.1998) which had "New Original Flavour!" written on it.
"How can it be new and original?" he asked.
"Advertisers love that kind of double speak." I replied.
If a 10 year old can understand that they are idiots who twist words to suit themselves, then why should adults have a problem?

chrono1081
Apr 9, 2012, 05:51 AM
I, for one, REALLY LOVE Torster for doing this!

Torster, thank you for finding this creative way to get Apple's attention. I've called Apple and written feedback on their site numerous time asking for a sliver of professional respect and have never received a response.


The new server processors are just now becoming available. Not one single company is shipping them yet.

foodog
Apr 9, 2012, 06:02 AM
At least Apple didn't say new & improved.

Hey, whatever happened to the I'm a Mac ads?
Hello, tap tap tap, is this thing on?

They stopped making quite some time ago.

----------

I, for one, REALLY LOVE Torster for doing this!

Torster, thank you for finding this creative way to get Apple's attention. I've called Apple and written feedback on their site numerous time asking for a sliver of professional respect and have never received a response.


If you feel Apple has not given you your proper respect stop buying their products. If you can't live without them... grin and bear it.

linuxcooldude
Apr 9, 2012, 07:29 AM
Right on all three--so they can stop with the marketing nonsense.

They can sell the current Mac Pro for the next 10 years. Just don't call a 2-year old product new. They just need to change the ad. Problem solved.


I'd rather have a truly new Mac Pro. In the absence of that, they just need to stop marketing the current one as "new" because its not.

The iPhone and iPad are updated every 12 months. Those are new. The Mac Pro is not.

Would your sense of morality be as great if the new Mac Pro was already out? Its doubtful, If that were the case I don't think we would even see this thread here. I suppose you could nitpick in order to feel like your getting back at Apple.

finchna
Apr 9, 2012, 10:24 AM
There's no time stamp on your picture advertising the new Mac Pro. That picture could have been taken after launch for all we know.?

Visit Apple's website right now (April 9, 2012): http://www.apple.com/macpro/

The new Mac Pro. With up to 12 cores of processing power, itís the fastest Mac ever.

Torster
Apr 9, 2012, 02:37 PM
Two years go by and everyone seems to be perfectly content that this system is still trudging along at its pokey 2010 specs...

New graphics cards are out...how about some new offerings there? I'd be thrilled to see a 6xxx series card working as officially supported in the Mac Pro. If Apple wanted to stick that in there and call the system "new" then I'd buy it. But they can't even do that.

According to everyone's logic here, the iPad shouldn't exist either because Intel and AMD don't have chips for those devices. The solution was generated by Apple with the Ax series of chips, and NOT waiting on external vendors to supply chips. They can't continue to innovate with their other gear, too?

What happened to innovation at Apple? You would think that a company with $100B in the bank could find someone who would give a *****.

And when did most everyone on here become OK with settling for mediocrity? I don't use a Windows system precisely because I don't want to settle for mediocrity.

Until they actually release something new, I have a problem with Apple calling the Mac Pro "new" because its not. You can defend them all you want with marketing double-speak and ad-man tricks and sleight of hand, but in reality everyone knows the product isn't new.

A company with the bottomless resources that Apple has doesn't deserve much slack on this. There's nothing wrong with holding their feet to to the fire.

TL

getz76
Apr 9, 2012, 02:52 PM
A company with the bottomless resources that Apple has doesn't deserve much slack on this. There's nothing wrong with holding their feet to to the fire.

Mac OS X is a luxury, not a necessity. Hold Apple's feet to the fire by using a different product.

ActionableMango
Apr 9, 2012, 02:59 PM
everyone seems to be perfectly content that this system is still trudging along at its pokey 2010 specs...

You really think everyone is content? If so, you must have missed the 400,000 threads full of people complaining.

goMac
Apr 9, 2012, 02:59 PM
Two years go by and everyone seems to be perfectly content that this system is still trudging along at its pokey 2010 specs...

Because it's still the fastest Xeons being shipped by any OEM.

Can you buy a faster system from HP right now? Dell? No? Then stop complaining.

When Dell and HP are shipping their systems in actual volume, then Apple is overdue. I expect there will probably be movement in the next month as the production of the Xeons Apple is using winds down. Apple will be forced to make a move.

Torster
Apr 9, 2012, 03:01 PM
Hold Apple's feet to the fire by using a different product.

The company has enough money to stop taking in cash today and STILL pay salaries and benefits for 100% of their employees through 2020.

You can't say "Hit 'em in the pocketbook" because that won't work with Apple.

TL

----------

You really think everyone is content? If so, you must have missed the 400,000 threads full of people complaining.

No, I don't everyone is content. But there are a lot of people on this thread asking why I'm "wasting my time..." on this.

TL

Groanan
Apr 9, 2012, 03:10 PM
Right on all three--so they can stop with the marketing nonsense.

They can sell the current Mac Pro for the next 10 years. Just don't call a 2-year old product new. They just need to change the ad. Problem solved.

TL[COLOR="#808080"]


I understand how you want them to label their products, and that is fine (I agree with your new/old system); my point is that the FTC complaint idea is a meritless empty gesture.

American advertising laws and administrative regulatory bodies only care about consumer confusion and resulting harm (particularly of the type consumers cannot get a remedy for themselves; either because a lawsuit would not be worth it, or because they have already lost their arm, or their life, and no amount of money can fix that).

For all the lesser deceits, our system works by waiting for a competitor (say Dell for instances) to sue for unfair trade practices for false advertising.

Why should we tax the people to have a governmental body stop a corporation from calling their new device "new" for longer than sixty-days (or however long you believe "new" means), when that label is not causing anyone any harm?

Taxes cause harm; if you want to use taxes (the government) to stop something, morally (for me at least) you should do so only to prevent or stop a greater harm - everything else is tyranny.

derbothaus
Apr 9, 2012, 06:29 PM
2010 - 2012 = 10-15% speed increase. Stop complaining. If that 10% increase is what makes or breaks your project you need a hell of a lot more than incremental updates. Apple is acting like Apple has always acted. Are there really that many Apple newbs? I forget about the halo effect. Apple doesn't sell you any HW part that is latest and greatest until it is part of the selling ecosystem. You'll get upgrades after a 2012 is available. You'll be able to buy the options it has. Nothing more.

leftywamumonkey
Apr 9, 2012, 07:04 PM
Visit Apple's website right now (April 9, 2012): http://www.apple.com/macpro/

The new Mac Pro. With up to 12 cores of processing power, itís the fastest Mac ever.

Yes, I know it says that on Apple's website, but the image the OP linked was not to Apple's website and the point was that if he sent the link as a part of the complaint there was no time stamp.

derbothaus
Apr 9, 2012, 08:07 PM
And it is still the fastest Mac ever. 8-cores at 2.4GHz, 6-Cores at 3.33GHz, 12-cores at 2.66GHz, 12-cores at 2.93GHz are still faster than anything Apple sells currently on the apps that they expect users to leverage when needing a Mac Pro. (meaning NOT iTunes and iPhoto). The quick i7 iMac is best for that for a whole host of reasons I do not feel like getting into all the time for everyone.

Torster
Apr 10, 2012, 01:49 PM
Yes, I know it says that on Apple's website, but the image the OP linked was not to Apple's website and the point was that if he sent the link as a part of the complaint there was no time stamp.

The metadata of the pic shows when I took the snapshot.

TL

Small White Car
Apr 10, 2012, 02:32 PM
You can defend them all you want with marketing double-speak and ad-man tricks and sleight of hand, but in reality everyone knows the product isn't new.


"Everyone knows?"

Congratulations, you just killed your own complaint. I hope the FTC doesn't see this thread, it might ruin your chances with them!

greygoos2004
Apr 12, 2012, 06:36 PM
Is it just me or Apple did remove the 'New' from the Mac Pro page!

goMac
Apr 12, 2012, 07:57 PM
Is it just me or Apple did remove the 'New' from the Mac Pro page!

They did. The text isn't even aligned right any more because the word is missing.

Well that's very... odd.

That's actually not a very positive sign. If there was a new Mac Pro coming, why bother cleaning up the old page?

RogersDA
Apr 12, 2012, 08:26 PM
The use of "New" language
http://www.consumeradvertisinglawblog.com/2010/02/how-long-can-your-product-be-new-and-improved.html

Advisory
http://rms3647.typepad.com/files/advisory-opinion.pdf

thejadedmonkey
Apr 12, 2012, 09:25 PM
I, for one, REALLY LOVE Torster for doing this!

Torster, thank you for finding this creative way to get Apple's attention. I've called Apple and written feedback on their site numerous time asking for a sliver of professional respect and have never received a response.

I completely agree. I think it's disgusting that Apple will advertise a product as "new" up until the moment a new one is released. Heck, the macbook pro is currently being called "The New Macbook Pro", even as Apple is running out of stock because new ones are being released soon.

"New" is definitely being used to describe its release cycle and not a quality of ownership in this sense. OP, I thank you.

edoates
Apr 12, 2012, 09:51 PM
Thanks, Torster! THe term NEW is supposed to be only used for 6 months or so; and given Apple's typical silence of product announcements (so we pros cant actually plan for anything), and the rumors that the MacPro may even be discontinued, Apple needs to be tweaked a bit on this sore subject.

The ads should say, "Nearly obsolete, and maybe the last of it's kind, but still pretty fast (and pricey) MacPro"

As to wasting gov money? Maybe some staffer will have to avoid the FTC office party saving taxpayers the cost of his $50 scones for breakfast.

goMac
Apr 13, 2012, 12:44 AM
I highly doubt this had anything to do with the FTC. A government agency receiving, getting, and carrying out a request in four days?

greygoos2004
Apr 13, 2012, 08:59 AM
I highly doubt this had anything to do with the FTC. A government agency receiving, getting, and carrying out a request in four days?

I agree, I don't think the FTC gives a @#@# about this complaint. But it is interesting to note that Apple took action nevertheless.
Also on your earlier comment on why would they bother updating if they are going to introduce a new Mac Pro or not, I had the same thought. But there is a different leader now.

On the brighter side, it is encouraging to know that they do read these posts (complaints, concerns, ...)

My theory is as long as there is a MacBook Pro Category, there is a Mac Pro Category (however dumb the logic is), Of course, they can rebadge the iMAC as a Pro and then the rest will be history...

RoelJuun
Apr 13, 2012, 09:46 AM
The Dutch store still says 'new' though.

Torster
Apr 13, 2012, 10:04 AM
I agree, I don't think the FTC gives a @#@# about this complaint. But it is interesting to note that Apple took action nevertheless.

That's all I cared about. Glad they took action and changed it. If I ever get contacted by FTC, I'll let them know it was changed.

TL

Wild-Bill
Apr 13, 2012, 04:25 PM
UK site still says "New" as well.


http://www.apple.com/uk/macpro/

I bet the U.S. one was changed b/c someone at Apple is reading MacRumors.

So, unless they go and change every county site they have, they are still technically in violation.

I applaud the OP for doing this.

Oh, they also changed the copy in the 4-columns below the main pic.

UK version on the left..... Recently EDITED U.S. version on the right:

Groanan
Apr 13, 2012, 09:58 PM
UK site still says "New" as well.

So, unless they go and change every county site they have, they are still technically in violation.


In violation of what? Paris Convention Article 10bis?

RogersDA kindly submitted the relevant FTC Advisory Opinion, as well as a blogger's comment that the "6 month rule" has not recently been used as a basis of enforcement.

The reasoning within the FTC guideline is pretty clear; they believe that using the term "new" for products that are more than six months old would, without exceptional circumstances, cause consumer confusion and harm (note that this was is in 1967, and they were probably not thinking of items costing anywhere near a MacPro, that are being bought by professionals).

FTC Advisory opinions are not binding on courts, other governmental entities, private parties, or even themselves; they are like a cop telling you, when they pull you over, that they generally only pull people over who do more than twelve mph over the speed limit. It is useful for you, but you cannot rely on it, and it does not change what the actual law is.

The actual US federal advertising laws are those created by the Lanham Act ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanham_Act ).

The FTC is not an international regulatory body enforcing some treaty against signatories, it is an American administrative body enforcing American laws on American companies to protect American consumers; Apple needs to comport with the EU's advertising laws for its advertisements in the EU, the FTC may help investigate if requested, but an FTC advisory opinion on what the term "new" means has absolutely jack-all to do with the legality of Apple's EU advertisements.

The crux of the issue is whether or not the advertising is or will likely cause consumer confusion and harm, or if it is unfair to Apple's competition.

Torster
Apr 13, 2012, 11:06 PM
I applaud the OP for doing this.


Thanks man. I'm glad at least a few people here get it...

If no one ever speaks, Apple will have no reason to listen.

TL

kendall69
Apr 13, 2012, 11:24 PM
Just to educate you a tad bit.....anything you buy is NEW unless it's used. They are advertising NEW computers not used or refurbished computers.

Case closed, not go home to Mommy and ask her to rub your little tummy because I know that will make you sick .

rawdawg
Apr 13, 2012, 11:34 PM
The crux of the issue is whether or not the advertising is or will likely cause consumer confusion and harm, or if it is unfair to Apple's competition.[/B]

No... The crux of the issue is to get Apple to wake up. It doesn't matter if you don't care about the future of the Mac Pro, but some of us care what Apple is thinking.

It's amazing in all the threads regarding the future of the Mac Pro this is the ONLY one that has succeeded in any sort of tangible response from Apple. And still people like to complain about it.

----------

Just to educate you a tad bit.....anything you buy is NEW unless it's used. They are advertising NEW computers not used or refurbished computers.

Case closed, not go home to Mommy and ask her to rub your little tummy because I know that will make you sick .

Why do you even bother? This subject seems to divide people like religion and politics to the point of anger.

If what you say it true then every product on their site that's not refurbished should say "new" next to it. Your play on semantics is wasting everyone's time.

Wild-Bill
Apr 14, 2012, 12:09 AM
Just to educate you a tad bit.....anything you buy is NEW unless it's used. They are advertising NEW computers not used or refurbished computers.

Case closed, not go home to Mommy and ask her to rub your little tummy because I know that will make you sick .

Now, is that really necessary????

Do me a favor - take your Apple apologist mentality somewhere else, because it's clearly not wanted here. Stay in the iDistractions threads. :rolleyes:

goMac
Apr 14, 2012, 12:47 AM
I'm not going to claim that the word "new" wasn't an interesting choice, but I have better things to do with my time than go ADD on a single word on Apple's store page, especially when it's still using the newest Xeons on the market. I'd be more upset if it was a generation behind, but it wasn't.

I mean, seriously, I'm about 100 times more interested in a new Mac Pro than I am about Apple using the word "new" on a page.

Groanan
Apr 14, 2012, 02:28 AM
No... The crux of the issue is to get Apple to wake up. It doesn't matter if you don't care about the future of the Mac Pro, but some of us care what Apple is thinking.


If you want to complain, contact Apple directly: http://www.apple.com/contact/

Filing a petition with the FTC, which gets tons of petitions every day for actual consumer issues that actually need investigating (because they are actually causing harm), expecting them to then relay this information to Apple, is nonsense. (It will not happen for the reasons I explain above, there needs to be a likelihood of consumer confusion and harm, or an unfair business practice that hurts competitors).

This scheme is almost as bad as having everyone write a petition to the secret service, claiming that Apple stole their identity by mislabeling their workhorse product as being "new," causing internal space, time, and identity confusion.

It is a complete ignorance of the law, our systems of governance, efficiency, and rational thought.

It was a bad idea, and TL should feel bad for trying to waste taxpayer's money by making an empty claim, known to be empty from the start (as no one really believes the MacPro is new).

rawdawg
Apr 14, 2012, 07:19 AM
If you want to complain, contact Apple directly: http://www.apple.com/contact/

I have complained to Apple on (4) occasions. Twice by phone, both times I was told there was no way to process such a complaint, and once through their online form kindly asking for any sort of response which I never received.

Why do you people continue to troll this thread if you could care less? And what makes you so blind to the fact that this has been the only successful method which has gotten Apple's attention in the slightest bit?

Edit: I just complained again.

weinschela
Apr 14, 2012, 07:36 AM
Who said it isn't marketed to children? Look at this thread.

pprior
Apr 14, 2012, 08:21 AM
Just another ******* thinking the gov't is the solution to all our problems...

I'm pissed about no new mac pros, but (wait for it...)

- I CAN READ-

and know what I'm buying, just as everyone else can do.

the gov't is NOT the solution, they are the problem. And apparently you are as well.

derbothaus
Apr 14, 2012, 02:54 PM
^^^*******s built Apple. Only nerds that are conservative are the Zuckerberg type, who are really just dorks in need of identity. Get it right.

Mr. Retrofire
Apr 14, 2012, 03:58 PM
I call BS on this.
Because you like false advertising.

Can't understand...
Because you do not want to understand it.

...why anyone would waste time like this.
I'm sure you have a 100 percent proof for this assumption!

----------

And what makes you so blind to the fact that this has been the only successful method which has gotten Apple's attention in the slightest bit?
That is a pretty good question!

Torster
Apr 14, 2012, 05:59 PM
It was a bad idea, and TL should feel bad for trying to waste taxpayer's money by making an empty claim, known to be empty from the start (as no one really believes the MacPro is new).

Sorry, if it was an empty claim then Apple would not have wasted any time changing the ad.

If I ever get contacted by FTC, I'll tell them Apple changed the ad. That's a waste of...maybe...60 seconds of a bureaucrat's day, if that?

This didn't require a congressional investigation, bro.

TL

----------

Case closed, not go home to Mommy and ask her to rub your little tummy because I know that will make you sick .


Dude, I've spent over $3,000,000 directly with Apple over the last 8 years.

I think I've earned the right to vent a little.

TL

808?
Apr 14, 2012, 06:36 PM
The text updates are not very consistant.

The US store says: Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/macpro/)

The HK store says: The Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/hk/en/macpro/)

elvisizer
Apr 14, 2012, 07:12 PM
this has to be the funniest thread I've ever seen.

FTC complaints, the word 'New' being mysteriously removed from the mac pro page, '*******'.

Comedy GOLD!

seriously, though, I can understand where Torster's coming from. Calling products 'New' the way that apple does right up until they're replaced is a little weird.

Draeconis
Apr 14, 2012, 07:33 PM
It seems some people need to read Steve Job's autobiography here, then you might understand.

Apple will never listen to the public for what they want. There is one exception as far as I am aware (iPod Shuffle I think), but apart from that, the Apple ethos is to design new products, not to pander to consumer demands.

If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have said "a faster horse".

They've not done anything with the Mac Pro for a while. This is a bit sad; I have one, and would like to see the line continued, and I can only assume they're working on something big to replace it. But there's just as much chance they'll kill it. Sure that doesn't make much sense; they're used a lot in creative industries, but then Apple never was that serious about Enterprise/Education deployment anyway (Ask a sysadmin about Lion Server and he'll laugh, or cry, or both).

Lets see what happens around the release of Mountain Lion.

Frankly, for a company that's so controlling over the hardware implementation of their products, it's amazing we have a Mac Pro product at all!

E.Lizardo
Apr 14, 2012, 07:42 PM
I, for one, REALLY LOVE Torster for doing this!

Torster, thank you for finding this creative way to get Apple's attention. I've called Apple and written feedback on their site numerous time asking for a sliver of professional respect and have never received a response.

You are seriously mistaken if you think this will"get Apple's attention"or if they care.They will release new ones when they are ready,or let the product die.THEY DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING.Deal with it.

E.Lizardo
Apr 14, 2012, 07:53 PM
Two years go by and everyone seems to be perfectly content that this system is still trudging along at its pokey 2010 specs...

New graphics cards are out...how about some new offerings there? I'd be thrilled to see a 6xxx series card working as officially supported in the Mac Pro. If Apple wanted to stick that in there and call the system "new" then I'd buy it. But they can't even do that.

According to everyone's logic here, the iPad shouldn't exist either because Intel and AMD don't have chips for those devices. The solution was generated by Apple with the Ax series of chips, and NOT waiting on external vendors to supply chips. They can't continue to innovate with their other gear, too?

What happened to innovation at Apple? You would think that a company with $100B in the bank could find someone who would give a *****.

And when did most everyone on here become OK with settling for mediocrity? I don't use a Windows system precisely because I don't want to settle for mediocrity.

Until they actually release something new, I have a problem with Apple calling the Mac Pro "new" because its not. You can defend them all you want with marketing double-speak and ad-man tricks and sleight of hand, but in reality everyone knows the product isn't new.

A company with the bottomless resources that Apple has doesn't deserve much slack on this. There's nothing wrong with holding their feet to to the fire.

TL

Hey aren't you the guy who called 911 when McDonalds ran out of Chicken McNuggets?

Seriously,that's how you look for having a little hissy fit and filing this complaint.

For the record I have a mac pro and would like an update but this little stunt of yours is just not flattering to you.At all.And that's a huge understatement.

linuxcooldude
Apr 14, 2012, 07:57 PM
Dude, I've spent over $3,000,000 directly with Apple over the last 8 years.

I think I've earned the right to vent a little.

Ah ha, thought there might be a hidden agenda in all of this.

While you invested your money in Apple, I certainly think you got your money out of it by now. You gave them your money, they gave you the products, services & software. Seems like an even trade to me.

I don't see how buying their products allows you unlimited access to classified inside knowledge of the inner working of Apple, such as advanced release dates of their products and new products coming out.

Such information that could be used by their competitors for the next clone of the week. Look at just the hint of possibly a new smart tv in Steve Jobs biography to see that. Then at CES an influx of simular devices hit the market.

ClassObject
Apr 14, 2012, 10:40 PM
Because you like false advertising.


Because you do not want to understand it.


I'm sure you have a 100 percent proof for this assumption!

----------


That is a pretty good question!

I don't give a sheert at all. Don't care this thread is beyond stupid.

JavaTheHut
Apr 15, 2012, 10:04 AM
The text updates are not very consistant.

The US store says: Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/macpro/)

The HK store says: The Mac Pro (http://www.apple.com/hk/en/macpro/)

Remember the FTC - Federal Trade Commission.

weinschela
Apr 15, 2012, 10:59 AM
If someone bought $3 million of Apple equipment and knowsthat it has been 2 years since an update of the MacPro, what possible monetary damage was suffered? If you buy a MacPro today are you getting something defective or deceptive -- or used? No. The specs are out there and Apple delivers a new machine with the advertised processor(s) cores, and other features. There are also lots of people who don't follow forums and buy things (computers cameras, etc.) when an update is around the corner. People on the forums who constantly ask whether they should buy the current model or wait for the next cabbage-fueled bio friendly gizmo. The advice is almost universally that if you wait, you will wait forever because something new is always on the horizon (though nobody knows exactly when). This is just the flip side. And it is one thing to complain to Apple that it is time for an upgrade, and another to complain to the FTC, where my and your tax dollars pay for someone to look at the complaint and see whether their limited enforcement resources should be devoted to such matters.

DisMyMac
Apr 15, 2012, 11:09 AM
Apple will never listen to the public for what they want. There is one exception as far as I am aware (iPod Shuffle I think), but apart from that, the Apple ethos is to design new products, not to pander to consumer demands.

Cult leaders try desperately to preserve their legacy after they're gone by enshrining the values that made them so special. It's BS.... Look at any old blue chip company, our Constitution, religions, etc. Apple will naturally decay into humdrum within just a few years.

Regarding the complaint - it was probably resolved with a friendly fax recommending they remove the word "new". Some manager said "Okay, that sounds fine". That was all.

nambuccaheadsau
Apr 15, 2012, 05:20 PM
You know if was not for lawyers .......

We wouldn't need lawyers!!

Torster
Apr 15, 2012, 06:28 PM
I don't see how buying their products allows you unlimited access to classified inside knowledge of the inner working of Apple, such as advanced release dates of their products and new products coming out.


If you actually took the time to read the complaint, it was about Apple marketing the Mac Pro as "new" and not about forcing them to release information about the forthcoming Mac Pro. That wasn't included in the statement, so why are you insinuating something here that isn't factual?

They changed it and I'm satisfied. Now we can all wait for the next Mac Pro, if they actually decide to release one...

TL

----------

Regarding the complaint - it was probably resolved with a friendly fax recommending they remove the word "new". Some manager said "Okay, that sounds fine". That was all.



That was all I wanted. It got done and I'm satisfied.

TL

----------

Hey aren't you the guy who called 911 when McDonalds ran out of Chicken McNuggets? Seriously,that's how you look for having a little hissy fit and filing this complaint.

You're taken more seriously when you don't call people childish about the things they care about. You might not agree with the way this was done, but the end result was what I had requested. And I didn't need to insult anyone to get it accomplished.

TL

Torster
Apr 15, 2012, 06:48 PM
...it is one thing to complain to Apple that it is time for an upgrade, and another to complain to the FTC, where my and your tax dollars pay for someone to look at the complaint and see whether their limited enforcement resources should be devoted to such matters.


The complaint was resolved without requiring intervention from FTC.

TL

Torster
Apr 18, 2012, 02:09 PM
UK site still says "New" as well.


I think they finally got it changed there, too:

http://www.apple.com/uk/macpro

TL

derbothaus
Apr 18, 2012, 02:12 PM
Great now maybe Torster can call off the legion of lawyers on retainer.

Torster
Apr 18, 2012, 02:17 PM
Great now maybe Torster can call off the legion of lawyers on retainer.


This was resolved with a few minutes on the FTC website and a few emails. No lawyers.

TL

derbothaus
Apr 18, 2012, 02:35 PM
;)