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rgomes
Apr 16, 2012, 06:45 AM
What's the best tool to convert MKWs to MP4s (to be played on ATV2)?

I've used Handbrake for years and it works well but it seems long to encode.

I tried MP4 Tools and that was quicker but not sure if I am choosing the correct settings.

From MP4 Tools:

Should I be choosing "Pass-Thru" under the audio section even though it is solid Red? "If Red, the option is not recommended".

If I choose AC3 5.1 I don't get an audio.

I've been selecting Pass- Thru and it seems to work okay but just wondering if I am losing any sound quality....

Thanks for any help!



hafr
Apr 16, 2012, 06:51 AM
What's the best tool to convert MKWs to MP4s (to be played on ATV2)?

I've used Handbrake for years and it works well but it seems long to encode.

I tried MP4 Tools and that was quicker but not sure if I am choosing the correct settings.

From MP4 Tools:

Should I be choosing "Pass-Thru" under the audio section even though it is solid Red? "If Red, the option is not recommended".

If I choose AC3 5.1 I don't get an audio.

I've been selecting Pass- Thru and it seems to work okay but just wondering if I am losing any sound quality....

Thanks for any help!

iFlicks or iVI depending on which one you like better. That's it. No more answers required.

dogbertd
Apr 16, 2012, 08:46 AM
I tried all sorts of things to convert MKV to MP4 and, like you, I found Handbrake to be good, but incredibly slow.

I then found Subler, which, rather than re-encoding, simply remuxes the video & audio. This can convert an MKV into an Apple TV2-ready MP4 file in a few minutes. It's not terribly intuitive (recommend reading the online manual at http://code.google.com/p/subler/wiki/UsingSubler ) but this is worth trying.

Seamaster
Apr 16, 2012, 09:21 AM
Elgato's Turbo.264 HD is faster and simpler to use than Handbrake. Handbrake produces slightly better quality conversions, but the difference is so marginal is not worth the additional time and complexity, IMO.

hafr
Apr 16, 2012, 09:29 AM
I tried all sorts of things to convert MKV to MP4 and, like you, I found Handbrake to be good, but incredibly slow.

I then found Subler, which, rather than re-encoding, simply remuxes the video & audio. This can convert an MKV into an Apple TV2-ready MP4 file in a few minutes. It's not terribly intuitive (recommend reading the online manual at http://code.google.com/p/subler/wiki/UsingSubler ) but this is worth trying.

Elgato's Turbo.264 HD is faster and simpler to use than Handbrake. Handbrake produces slightly better quality conversions, but the difference is so marginal is not worth the additional time and complexity, IMO.

Have either of you tried iVI or iFlicks?

lhjelm
Apr 16, 2012, 09:50 AM
Have either of you tried iVI or iFlicks?

I agree with hafr, iFlicks or iVI is the way to go.

I use iFlicks since it's less strict when it comes to converting XVID files. iVI fallback to re-encoding if it can't convert with 100% certainty.

Gjwilly
Apr 16, 2012, 03:54 PM
Under Windows I use this one:
http://mkvavi2mp4.sourceforge.net/

It's not pretty but it's quick and it's worked for me so far.

rgomes
Apr 16, 2012, 05:16 PM
iFlicks or iVI depending on which one you like better. That's it. No more answers required.

Okay, thanks for the links.

Downloaded the trial version of iVI and liked the interface. Wasn't crazy about the interface of iFlicks but didn't give it that heavy a look.

I tried a test conversion of a 60min MKV (720p) file into MP4 format using iVI. It took approximately 32 minutes on normal default settings.

I tried the same MKV file in MP4 tools and it was done in less than 7 minutes.

Not sure what the time difference is.

I know Handbrake would have taken about the same time as iVI.

What is one doing that the other is not?

My goal is to output the highest audio/picture quality on Apple TV 2.

Any input is helpful....

dynaflash
Apr 16, 2012, 06:05 PM
In terms of encoding speed vs. quality things seem somewhat clouded in this thread.

Here are the facts:

elgato turbo : has a hardware accelerator that worked well on macs up through g4 maybe g5 in terms of a speed boost (offloaded the encoding to the turbo h.264 device). however .... the biggest boost is that its software uses very watered down h.264 options which make the settings very fast. Basically iirc in a nutshell using the same settings on a C2D mac ... elgato vs. HB (again "Same Settings") the HB x264 encoder was as fast or faster just using the c2d's cpu. Any setup better than a c2d hb (x624) is faster again, same options and therefore quality.


iVI uses the HandBrake CLI for h.264 encoding (albeit an older one than HB 0.9.6) therefore ... same settings .... at best a wash on speed vs. quality.

IFlicks, not really sure in terms of transcoding.

Subler: Written by one of the best HB devs ritsuka. Fantastic but does not transcode video. But is a fantastic remuxer.

Any of these programs (besides HB) when it is just remuxing (remixing the video and audio track into a new container) is *much* faster than actually transcoding video (which is what slows HB down as its only a transcoder, not a remuxer).

*If* you can be sure your MKVs Video and Audio tracks are compatible for the device you want (atv3, iPad 3, etc etc.) and *just* need to be in an mp4 container ... then just remux via subler ,etc. it will be much faster than actually re-encoding the video.

If you want to re-encode the video and properly sync it to the audio and have it compliant for sure (including framerates and decombing any combed frames). There is no shortcut. And I can GUARANTEE you that all settings being equal there is no faster h.264 encoder than x264 used in hb. ... and yes, that definitely includes any QuickTime based encoders.

Remember the old addage for video encoding : Speed, Size, Quality .. Pick two. ;)

mic j
Apr 16, 2012, 06:23 PM
In terms of encoding speed vs. quality things seem somewhat clouded in this thread.

Here are the facts:

elgato turbo : has a hardware accelerator that worked well on macs up through g4 maybe g5 in terms of a speed boost (offloaded the encoding to the turbo h.264 device). however .... the biggest boost is that its software uses very watered down h.264 options which make the settings very fast. Basically iirc in a nutshell using the same settings on a C2D mac ... elgato vs. HB (again "Same Settings") the HB x264 encoder was as fast or faster just using the c2d's cpu. Any setup better than a c2d hb (x624) is faster again, same options and therefore quality.


iVI uses the HandBrake CLI for h.264 encoding (albeit an older one than HB 0.9.6) therefore ... same settings .... at best a wash on speed vs. quality.

IFlicks, not really sure in terms of transcoding.

Subler: Written by one of the best HB devs ritsuka. Fantastic but does not transcode video. But is a fantastic remuxer.

Any of these programs (besides HB) when it is just remuxing (remixing the video and audio track into a new container) is *much* faster than actually transcoding video (which is what slows HB down as its only a transcoder, not a remuxer).

*If* you can be sure your MKVs Video and Audio tracks are compatible for the device you want (atv3, iPad 3, etc etc.) and *just* need to be in an mp4 container ... then just remux via subler ,etc. it will be much faster than actually re-encoding the video.

If you want to re-encode the video and properly sync it to the audio and have it compliant for sure (including framerates and decombing any combed frames). There is no shortcut. And I can GUARANTEE you that all settings being equal there is no faster h.264 encoder than x264 used in hb. ... and yes, that definitely includes any QuickTime based encoders.

Remember the old addage for video encoding : Speed, Size, Quality .. Pick two. ;)
Thank you for that summary!!!

There really is no better transcoder/remuxer/metadata tagger combo out there than Handbrake/Subler. Believe me, I've tried most of them and all of the ones mentioned above (a few multiple times, thinking I just did not get it). And on top of that, both are free and easy to use.

dynaflash
Apr 16, 2012, 06:40 PM
There really is no better transcoder/remuxer/metadata tagger combo out there than Handbrake/Subler.

Well, its quite possible. Realize this, ritsuka is a HB dev, did a lot of work on HandBrake and when the project decided to stop scope creep at massive tagging and remuxing and concentrate on its best attribute, encoding ... ritsuka was good enough to fill in the blanks as it were with a small but wickedly powerful app of his own ... Subler. It originally picked up where HB left off (though HandBrake does have chapter title capabilites) with advanced subtitle muxing (hence the name) but as he went on and with some input from others (including other HB devs) it became *much* more than a subtitle muxer. Including phenomenal tagging and remuxing almost any mkv track into a *compliant* mp4. Both Subler and HandBrake user the libmp4v2 muxer for mp4's. Subler kind of takes off where HB leaves off. As it were.

Just a bit of background ... not that it really matters. :)

Edit: for those that don't know though ... Subler is mac only.

rgomes
Apr 16, 2012, 07:31 PM
In terms of encoding speed vs. quality things seem somewhat clouded in this thread.

Here are the facts:

Any of these programs (besides HB) when it is just remuxing (remixing the video and audio track into a new container) is *much* faster than actually transcoding video (which is what slows HB down as its only a transcoder, not a remuxer).

*If* you can be sure your MKVs Video and Audio tracks are compatible for the device you want (atv3, iPad 3, etc etc.) and *just* need to be in an mp4 container ... then just remux via subler ,etc. it will be much faster than actually re-encoding the video.

If you want to re-encode the video and properly sync it to the audio and have it compliant for sure (including framerates and decombing any combed frames). There is no shortcut. And I can GUARANTEE you that all settings being equal there is no faster h.264 encoder than x264 used in hb. ... and yes, that definitely includes any QuickTime based encoders.

Remember the old addage for video encoding : Speed, Size, Quality .. Pick two. ;)

I guess that's where my ignorance sets in -- not knowing the difference between what transcoding vs encoding vs remuxing is.

I simply want to convert MKVs (x.264) into something that I can watch through my ATV2. I suppose I just need to "remux" and in that case MP4 Tools or Subler should suffice?

I am not sure when I would need to transcode video?

Thanks for enlightening us! (or at least me!)

So, my new question might be -- what's the best Remuxer? Stick with Subler?

Alrescha
Apr 16, 2012, 08:12 PM
So, my new question might be -- what's the best Remuxer? Stick with Subler?

If all tracks of the MKV file are Apple TV-ready, then Subler could be your solution. If you need anything else*, then I've found MP4Tools to be excellent.

A.

* Anything else: You need a DTS audio track to be converted to AC-3. You need to add an AAC track to go with the existing AC-3 track. You need to do both of the above, etc.

dynaflash
Apr 16, 2012, 08:14 PM
I am not sure when I would need to transcode video?


Encode == Transcode for this purpose.

Apple devices in general cannot playback DTS audio. Most MKV's found in the wild have DTS. Depending on the IOS device (atv3, iPad3, Ipod Touch, Iphone) they will all playback h.264 video ... but ... that does not mean at the "level" that is found in your MKV. So, basically if your want to just remux (remix) the existing audio and video into a new mp4 container ... you must take your chances or know what the tracks are in your source ahead of time and know that they will work for your target device/platform.

Or you can transcode (encode) it so you know it will work.

Most advanced users can tell but still it can get tricky. Depends on what your source is and where it comes from.

Pretty much a subject for another thread. I painted with *very* broad strokes.

rgomes
Apr 16, 2012, 08:38 PM
If all tracks of the MKV file are Apple TV-ready, then Subler could be your solution. If you need anything else*, then I've found MP4Tools to be excellent.

What should I look for to be sure my MKV files are ATV2 ready? Can I analyze the MKV file using a Media Info program?

A.

* Anything else: You need a DTS audio track to be converted to AC-3. You need to add an AAC track to go with the existing AC-3 track. You need to do both of the above, etc.

That's where my dilemma begins. When I work in MP4 Tools, and I load up a MKV, in the audio section, the PASS-THRU selection turns Red (and the program recommends you DO NOT choose this option). Should I be choosing AAC (5.1) or AC3 (5.1)?

Now, under the video tab, Pass-Thru or H.264 (Pass 1) or H.264 (Pass 2)?

Or, are you all telling me just to transcode to avoid any conflicts?

Alrescha
Apr 16, 2012, 09:09 PM
When I work in MP4 Tools, and I load up a MKV, in the audio section, the PASS-THRU selection turns Red (and the program recommends you DO NOT choose this option). Should I be choosing AAC (5.1) or AC3 (5.1)?

Now, under the video tab, Pass-Thru or H.264 (Pass 1) or H.264 (Pass 2)?


First of all, remuxing with MP4Tools should only take a few minutes, so a little experimentation on your part should not be out of the question.

I generally build for Apple TV, so first I make sure that I choose Apple TV in the Device pulldown.

If you load up a movie with a DTS audio track and choose audio pass-thru, that selection is going to turn red because the Apple TV can't play it. Choose AC3 (5.1) and check the box that says 'add 2-Ch. Track', as the Apple TV expects a 2-channel AAC track at a minimum, with an optional AC3 track.

Likewise, if you load up a video track that the Apple TV can't play, then video pass-thru will be red (in this case I would revert to Handbrake because I understand its transcoding abilities). The MKVs that I have created in the past have all had video compatible with the Apple TV so I've always used pass-thru.

In the end, your goal is to always use pass-thru if you can and never transcode unless you have to. Sometimes, especially with audio, there's no avoiding it.

A.

Zudeo
Apr 16, 2012, 10:50 PM
Thanks to the OP, and thank you to those who contributed. I just tried Subler and while I have to agree with dogbertd, it makes mkv to mp4 conversion a walk in the park! For roughly a 1:30 hour file on my MBA it took me a half hour, and now it takes mere seconds.

Mint. :-) :D

MacinJosh
Apr 17, 2012, 04:00 AM
You wanna walk in the park? Get the latest iFlicks. Ever since ATV3, I haven't re-encoded anything. Just throw in an MKV to iFlicks and it'll re-mux it super fast. It's got awesome tagging and 1080P tag support as well. Much faster and stabler than Subler. Subler is superior when you want to get into the nitty gritty which I seldom do.

I mean, iFlicks will take any XVID AVIs and remux them without re-encoding if you like!

MKW? Must be from Finland, lol.

hafr
Apr 17, 2012, 04:25 AM
Okay, thanks for the links.

Downloaded the trial version of iVI and liked the interface. Wasn't crazy about the interface of iFlicks but didn't give it that heavy a look.

I tried a test conversion of a 60min MKV (720p) file into MP4 format using iVI. It took approximately 32 minutes on normal default settings.

I tried the same MKV file in MP4 tools and it was done in less than 7 minutes.

Not sure what the time difference is.

I know Handbrake would have taken about the same time as iVI.

What is one doing that the other is not?

My goal is to output the highest audio/picture quality on Apple TV 2.

Any input is helpful....

Why do people try software once without even going through the settings first? You need to activate pass thru video conversion in iVI.

muledogus
Apr 17, 2012, 02:45 PM
I'm new to this stuff too and still don't know what all of the technical stuff is but what works for me is simple. Remux with Subler and test it on my Apple TV. If that didn't work, I run it through handbrake. Then sometimes I can't change metadata on a file in iTunes without a crash and corruption so in that case I'll use Subler again for metadata changes.

tbayrgs
Apr 17, 2012, 04:29 PM
First of all, remuxing with MP4Tools should only take a few minutes, so a little experimentation on your part should not be out of the question.

I generally build for Apple TV, so first I make sure that I choose Apple TV in the Device pulldown.

If you load up a movie with a DTS audio track and choose audio pass-thru, that selection is going to turn red because the Apple TV can't play it. Choose AC3 (5.1) and check the box that says 'add 2-Ch. Track', as the Apple TV expects a 2-channel AAC track at a minimum, with an optional AC3 track.

Likewise, if you load up a video track that the Apple TV can't play, then video pass-thru will be red (in this case I would revert to Handbrake because I understand its transcoding abilities). The MKVs that I have created in the past have all had video compatible with the Apple TV so I've always used pass-thru.

In the end, your goal is to always use pass-thru if you can and never transcode unless you have to. Sometimes, especially with audio, there's no avoiding it.

A.

Pretty much my process as well. If I'm ripping from blu-ray, I generally rip with MakeMKV and dump the rip into HB as I prefer a more manageable file size for use with :apple:TV, iPad, or iPhone. Otherwise, remuxing with MP4Tools is a breeze. FWIW, I prefer iDentify for my tagging--also super simple and very quick, especially for entire TV seasons.

skate71290
Apr 17, 2012, 06:19 PM
iVl is by far the best as it helps with Meta-Data, and also, if you are using true 720/1080 MKV files then enable Pass-Through and conversion is instant with no quality loss! i love iVl and couldn't recommend it enough

GarrettL1979
Apr 17, 2012, 07:58 PM
I'm still a little confused about which audio setting should be selected within make mkv when ripping a blu ray. If I just have a stereo setup, should I select DD 3/2+1? Or something else?

I plan to convert the mkv using handbrake for viewing on an apple tv 3. Any advise would be much appreciated.

rgomes
Apr 17, 2012, 09:18 PM
I'm still a little confused by which audio setting should be selected within make mkv when ripping a blu ray. If I just have a stereo setup, should I select DD 3/2+1? Or something else?

I plan to convert the mkv using handbrake for viewing on an apple tv 3. Any advise would be much appreciated.

You can rip Blu-rays on a MAC? I thought MACs didn't support Blu-rays. Man am I out of it. I am assuming you need some kind of external burner? What are people buying and using these days?

benh911f
Apr 17, 2012, 11:37 PM
You can rip Blu-rays on a MAC? I thought MACs didn't support Blu-rays. Man am I out of it. I am assuming you need some kind of external burner? What are people buying and using these days?

Macs don't natively play Blu-Rays, but yes, with an external drive and a program like MakeMKV, you can rip a BD to an MKV file and play in on the Mac, encode it to put into iTunes and play on ATV, etc.
Here's the drive I bought a couple months backhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/B004ZCHULQ/ref=aw_d_cr_electronics?qid=1334723673&sr=8-7
Note: Any negative reviews are mostly from people who thought they were buying a drive that would play BDs, not simply one that reads them.

Phish311
Apr 18, 2012, 09:09 AM
I use Bigasoft Total Video Converter. Very simple process and ive had zero issues. Doesn't take too much time and file size remains about the same

rgomes
Apr 19, 2012, 05:44 PM
Okay so just reporting on some testing that I did -- iFlicks Vs MP4 Tools.

Original MKV file was 3.5GB (AVC Codec)

I tried encoding with iFlicks (Pass Thru) and it took 28 minutes. Final Size: 1.4 GB

I tried encoding with MP4 Tools (Pass Thru) and it took 14 minutes: Final Size: 3.15 GB

Why different file sizes?

I thought they were both doing the same thing: remuxing?

Man I need to go to school to learn all this stuff.....

charlien
Apr 21, 2012, 08:17 AM
My vote is handbrake and identify. Handbrake takes longer but file size is almost half of just running it through subler. In handbrake you can load it up with multiple files and let it run overnight. A 45 minute TV episode is around 800 meg after subler and around 400 meg after handbrake using Apple Universal settings. I realize that file size does have a relation to picture quality but on my 46" TV I am very satisfied with the picture.

KittyKatta
Apr 21, 2012, 10:11 AM
Okay so just reporting on some testing that I did -- iFlicks Vs MP4 Tools.

Original MKV file was 3.5GB (AVC Codec)

I tried encoding with iFlicks (Pass Thru) and it took 28 minutes. Final Size: 1.4 GB

I tried encoding with MP4 Tools (Pass Thru) and it took 14 minutes: Final Size: 3.15 GB

Why different file sizes?

I thought they were both doing the same thing: remuxing?

Man I need to go to school to learn all this stuff.....
I need to learn this stuff too. I know im converting rather than remuxing but On my first few BR rips using Handbrake and the AppleTV2 720 preset then my file sizes are all over the place.

Beauty and the Beast - 2.2GB
Tangled - 1.99GB
Inception - 2.55GB
MI4 - 2.9GB
Back to the Future - 4.7GB
Hop - 3.5GB

I'm just not getting why an older movie like Back to the Future would be so huge while some newer action movies are 2GB smaller.

dynaflash
Apr 21, 2012, 11:54 AM
I'm just not getting why an older movie like Back to the Future would be so huge while some newer action movies are 2GB smaller.
You are using Constant Quality encoding. HB will keep the same visual quality and adjust bitrate accordingly. Older movies that are grainy or very complex action will require more bitrate. Still dark scenes require very little, this is quite normal and really the correct way to encode over abr if quality is your concern.

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/ConstantQuality

spacepower7
Apr 21, 2012, 12:12 PM
I need to learn this stuff too. I know im converting rather than remuxing but On my first few BR rips using Handbrake and the AppleTV2 720 preset then my file sizes are all over the place.

Beauty and the Beast - 2.2GB
Tangled - 1.99GB
Inception - 2.55GB
MI4 - 2.9GB
Back to the Future - 4.7GB
Hop - 3.5GB

I'm just not getting why an older movie like Back to the Future would be so huge while some newer action movies are 2GB smaller.

The complexity of the original source, ie camera movement/action, and image quality.

In a very simple example:

Think of a movie scene with two people sitting at a table, having a conversation. If the camera is sitting still on a tripod and not panning, the the only movement in the scene is the people, and maybe their movement affecting the lighting on the table or wall.

Think of the same scene, but now a handheld camera moving a little bit. In this example, the position ofthe people, the table, the lighting are all constantly changing, therefore this scene requires much more data to record ie bigger file size.

Another issue is the original picture quality. I have old home Super8 film movies transferred to DVD. One hour of this footage in standard def takes about 2.5 GB because handbrake has to try to preserve all of the film grain so that the video looks truer to the original, and not blurry.

Most of the newer movies and animation have little or no film grain bc they are shot on digital, created digitally, or restored digitally removing film grain.

I would speculate the Back to the Future file has film grain, or it's just Michael J. Fox is so cool that he needs bigger files ;)

KittyKatta
Apr 21, 2012, 01:06 PM
The complexity of the original source, ie camera movement/action, and image quality.

In a very simple example:

Think of a movie scene with two people sitting at a table, having a conversation. If the camera is sitting still on a tripod and not panning, the the only movement in the scene is the people, and maybe their movement affecting the lighting on the table or wall.

Think of the same scene, but now a handheld camera moving a little bit. In this example, the position ofthe people, the table, the lighting are all constantly changing, therefore this scene requires much more data to record ie bigger file size.

Another issue is the original picture quality. I have old home Super8 film movies transferred to DVD. One hour of this footage in standard def takes about 2.5 GB because handbrake has to try to preserve all of the film grain so that the video looks truer to the original, and not blurry.

Most of the newer movies and animation have little or no film grain bc they are shot on digital, created digitally, or restored digitally removing film grain.

I would speculate the Back to the Future file has film grain, or it's just Michael J. Fox is so cool that he needs bigger files ;)
So newer movies shot digitally or with less grain will have a more efficient transfer than older movies. That makes sense. Animated definitely are quick because I did Lion King and it took 90min and made a 1.55GB 720p file that looks fantastic.

My next rip is Dark Knight in 1080p so it will be interesting how dark lighting, motion and film capture will affect file size.

rgomes
Apr 21, 2012, 06:32 PM
My next rip is Dark Knight in 1080p so it will be interesting how dark lighting, motion and film capture will affect file size.

Just wondering why people generally "rip" their Blu-ray collection. Isn't it better to always watch the BD as opposed to a "rip"?

BizProf
Apr 21, 2012, 09:26 PM
Just wondering why people generally "rip" their Blu-ray collection. Isn't it better to always watch the BD as opposed to a "rip"?

In general, you're absolutely right. I usually reach for the BD when I want the best possible pic/audio quality. At the same time, for much of my content, an HD rip is more than fine, and I enjoy the convenience of flipping through my collection in Plex (my client of choice, currently) -- also nice for the kids or when we have company. This is particularly true when we're undecided on what to watch, and seeing movie art, descriptions, cast/crew, etc. presented together through a slick interface can nudge us in the right direction. Better than staring at a wall of BDs, which reminds me of the old days at the video store (remember those?)...;)

spacepower7
Apr 24, 2012, 12:10 AM
Just wondering why people generally "rip" their Blu-ray collection. Isn't it better to always watch the BD as opposed to a "rip"?

Agree with the above post,and above above, kids and convience are some of the top reasons for rippng blu-ray especially when I am the only one house concerned about picture quality..

As nerdy as we are on this forum, you need to realized that we are in a minority,the story line, cinematography and editing are more important to 99% of the people who watch your rips.

KittyKatta
Apr 24, 2012, 08:48 AM
Just wondering why people generally "rip" their Blu-ray collection. Isn't it better to always watch the BD as opposed to a "rip"?
Isn't it for the same reason people use Netflix? People don't love Netflix because of their video quality or even their movie selection. They subscribe because it brings a convenience that prevents us from watching a rerun of National Treasure on cable the 20th time.

Ripping your own BluRays only increases your selection and gives you pretty amazing quality, gives you more versatility (ATV, iPhone, iPad, Laptop), gives quick access to repeated movies (kids movies), is easier to access and takes less space (my movies can go in a box rather than take up an entire wall).

I'm sure some of the videophiles who have that eye for spotting pixels would prefer the original BD, but I'd bet that most of us could be fooled by a 1080p bluray rip on the AppleTV. I know I can.

tbayrgs
Apr 24, 2012, 09:26 AM
Just wondering why people generally "rip" their Blu-ray collection. Isn't it better to always watch the BD as opposed to a "rip"?

Isn't it for the same reason people use Netflix? People don't love Netflix because of their video quality or even their movie selection. They subscribe because it brings a convenience that prevents us from watching a rerun of National Treasure on cable the 20th time.

Ripping your own BluRays only increases your selection and gives you pretty amazing quality, gives you more versatility (ATV, iPhone, iPad, Laptop), gives quick access to repeated movies (kids movies), is easier to access and takes less space (my movies can go in a box rather than take up an entire wall).

I'm sure some of the videophiles who have that eye for spotting pixels would prefer the original BD, but I'd bet that most of us could be fooled by a 1080p bluray rip on the AppleTV. I know I can.

^This. Also, can't seem to find the slot to load the blu-ray into my iPad ;).

To be honest, I don't even own a blu-ray player, only a drive for my Mac. Once upon a time I had a PS3 but just the hassle of fishing out the disk, loading it, waiting for it to start up and dealing with the menu's was annoying enough for me to ditch it and convert them all to digital format ready to watch on any device at a moment's notice.

SCRMedia
Apr 24, 2012, 09:50 AM
I currently use Subler to remux my video files then use iVi to add the metadata before dragging and dropping into iTunes.

Ideally, I'd like to use just one program and have it automated. I read that iVi / iFlicks can also remux files but whenever I try that with a video file which Subler will remux just fine, iVi / iFlicks attempt to transcode the video which takes a much longer time.

Am I correct in thinking that iVi / iFlicks should be able to remux H264 video? And if thats the case, how can I get them to do that?

mic j
Apr 24, 2012, 09:59 AM
I currently use Subler to remux my video files then use iVi to add the metadata before dragging and dropping into iTunes.

Ideally, I'd like to use just one program and have it automated. I read that iVi / iFlicks can also remux files but whenever I try that with a video file which Subler will remux just fine, iVi / iFlicks attempt to transcode the video which takes a much longer time.

Am I correct in thinking that iVi / iFlicks should be able to remux H264 video? And if thats the case, how can I get them to do that?

Just curious why you don't use Subler's metadata tagger?

Edit: just caught the "automated" part.

SCRMedia
Apr 24, 2012, 10:12 AM
Just curious why you don't use Subler's metadata tagger?

Edit: just caught the "automated" part.

To be honest, I'd just settle for one program to handle the remuxing / tagging at this stage. The tagger in Subler is clunky - I like the way iVi just adds everything in, artwork include within about 3 seconds of dragging the file into the program.

With Subler, you have to click the search, choose the artwork (which takes ages to load for some reason!) etc. I'm just being lazy and trying to make the whole process as streamlined as possible haha

chiefpavvy
Apr 24, 2012, 10:14 AM
I currently use Subler to remux my video files then use iVi to add the metadata before dragging and dropping into iTunes.

Ideally, I'd like to use just one program and have it automated. I read that iVi / iFlicks can also remux files but whenever I try that with a video file which Subler will remux just fine, iVi / iFlicks attempt to transcode the video which takes a much longer time.

Am I correct in thinking that iVi / iFlicks should be able to remux H264 video? And if thats the case, how can I get them to do that?

I do the opposite, remux with iVI Pro and then add chapter video/optimize/tag with Subler afterwards.

iVI does indeed remux and does a great job. Even on my rather slow MacBook it typically does a film in 15-20 minutes from start to finish...

SCRMedia
Apr 24, 2012, 10:16 AM
I do the opposite, remux with iVI Pro and then add chapter video/optimize/tag with Subler afterwards.

iVI does indeed remux and does a great job. Even on my rather slow MacBook it typically does a film in 15-20 minutes from start to finish...

Hmm how weird - why doesn't iVi remux for me?? :-/

radiogoober
Apr 24, 2012, 10:38 AM
Just wondering why people generally "rip" their Blu-ray collection. Isn't it better to always watch the BD as opposed to a "rip"?

Its for convenience. I'd much rather scroll through a list and hit "play" then switch tv inputs, wait the 2 minutes for my BR player to turn on, boot up, then be forced to sit through a clunky BR menu and forced previews, a notice telling me to not steal (after I've already bought the BR disc!), etc.

I keep the two Batmans and Avatar discs, in the rare circumstance I want to watch those, because, well, the IMAX scenes in Dark Knight are so damn cool, and I can't figure out how to rip the subtitles for Avatar.

mic j
Apr 24, 2012, 10:44 AM
To be honest, I'd just settle for one program to handle the remuxing / tagging at this stage. The tagger in Subler is clunky - I like the way iVi just adds everything in, artwork include within about 3 seconds of dragging the file into the program.

With Subler, you have to click the search, choose the artwork (which takes ages to load for some reason!) etc. I'm just being lazy and trying to make the whole process as streamlined as possible haha
One of my main gripes about the aTV movie display is that it truncates the description and actors fields if they are too long. Also, from my "happy wife, happy life" perspective, my wife quickly passes over any movie with a long description. So short movie descriptions are key to her. For those reasons, I use Subler for metadata tagging. I can eliminate various fields I am not interested in. I don't need director, producer, 20 actors, etc. Eliminating those fields allows the aTV to expand the movie description field so I don't get the "...". And it's the full movie description that I really want to show up on the aTV. I have not experienced the slow metadata search and load, you have experienced. But in the end, it all comes down to personal needs and workflow.

What I would really like is to select a movie and go to a full movie info screen with all metadata and artwork. iTunes does it for their download movies but not for local movies.

----------

Its for convenience. I'd much rather scroll through a list and hit "play" then switch tv inputs, wait the 2 minutes for my BR player to turn on, boot up, then be forced to sit through a clunky BR menu and forced previews, a notice telling me to not steal (after I've already bought the BR disc!), etc.

I keep the two Batmans and Avatar discs, in the rare circumstance I want to watch those, because, well, the IMAX scenes in Dark Knight are so damn cool, and I can't figure out how to rip the subtitles for Avatar.

Find the Avatar forced subs file (srt) one of several subtitle download sites. Download the srt. Transcode the Avatar rip using Handbrake and add the srt at that point.

SCRMedia
Apr 24, 2012, 11:17 AM
Hmm how weird - why doesn't iVi remux for me?? :-/

I didn't have Pass-Thru enabled in preferences and figured that was the reason. But even with that enabled and using a file that again, can be remuxed, iVi attempts to transcode it! :confused:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6779530/Screen%20Shot%202012-04-24%20at%2017.14.12.png

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6779530/Screen%20Shot%202012-04-24%20at%2017.17.02.png

rgomes
Apr 24, 2012, 07:31 PM
I tried iVI and found the same problem -- it always wants to transcode instead of remuxing. I did have the Pass-Thru option enabled. I ended up sticking with MP4 Tools. $4.99 to register it and it works like a charm. Remuxes when it can, and transcodes when it has to. Tagging is not the greatest though.

Still not sure how to tell if a MKV found in the 'wlld' needs to be transcoded or only remuxed? How can you tell?

PS - Can I remux in MP4 Tools and then tag in iVI?

SCRMedia
Apr 25, 2012, 05:36 AM
I tried iVI and found the same problem -- it always wants to transcode instead of remuxing. I did have the Pass-Thru option enabled. I ended up sticking with MP4 Tools. $4.99 to register it and it works like a charm. Remuxes when it can, and transcodes when it has to. Tagging is not the greatest though.

Still not sure how to tell if a MKV found in the 'wlld' needs to be transcoded or only remuxed? How can you tell?

PS - Can I remux in MP4 Tools and then tag in iVI?

With regards to your last question, yes you can as thats what I do but use Subler instead of MP4 Tools

Mavimao
Apr 25, 2012, 06:32 AM
Still not sure how to tell if a MKV found in the 'wlld' needs to be transcoded or only remuxed? How can you tell?

In MKVtools, if the passthrough option is in red, that means it needs to be re encoded.

chiefpavvy
Apr 25, 2012, 09:21 AM
I didn't have Pass-Thru enabled in preferences and figured that was the reason. But even with that enabled and using a file that again, can be remuxed, iVi attempts to transcode it! :confused:

Image (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6779530/Screen%20Shot%202012-04-24%20at%2017.14.12.png)

Image (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6779530/Screen%20Shot%202012-04-24%20at%2017.17.02.png)

You are misinterpreting the results. iVI is doing the remux. The "HD Conversion" message shows up during a remux as well...I know, considering how many films I have done. :) If it says Pass-Thru: YES it will do a remux.

----------

I tried iVI and found the same problem -- it always wants to transcode instead of remuxing. I did have the Pass-Thru option enabled. I ended up sticking with MP4 Tools. $4.99 to register it and it works like a charm. Remuxes when it can, and transcodes when it has to. Tagging is not the greatest though.

Still not sure how to tell if a MKV found in the 'wlld' needs to be transcoded or only remuxed? How can you tell?

PS - Can I remux in MP4 Tools and then tag in iVI?

In order for the file to be remuxed, the video must be H.264. Any other format will require a transcode. iVI will tell you. If it says Pass-Thru: YES a remux will be done. Otherwise it will specify NO and say "Not H.264" meaning a complete transcode will be done.

As the vast majority of MKV in the 'wild' are H.264 a remux should almost always be possible. However, be aware of the limitations of the Apple hardware decoder. For example I have remuxed several files fine but ATV2/3 would not play them because of non-standard or extreme H.264 profile options. Like 16 reference frames. You've got to know the boundaries...

Dhelsdon
Apr 25, 2012, 09:41 AM
I REALLY like iVI, I purchased it and have used it to convert my .avi's to .mp4
Best part is all the glorious meta-data included.

KittyKatta
Apr 25, 2012, 02:56 PM
I have a few dumb questions:

1) What happens if you rip a 3D BluRay? I have a 3D TV, will it show up 3D or is the movie actually 2D?

2) Is there an ideal bitrate for HD? In handbrake Im using the default AppleTV2 preset and a movie like Dark Knight was a 2500 bitrate, but kiddie movies that I dont necessarily need the highest quality of (High School Musical 3, Chipmunks: Chipwrecked) were default encoded at 4800. Both "look" okay but Dark Knight is the lowest bitrate in my entire collection so far which seems odd so im wondering if I should do it again and force a higher bitrate. (Obviously im not understanding what bitrate means to the overall quality)

Thanks again. Im afraid im going to wear out my mini because its been chugging away at my collection for 3 days straight. :D

charlien
Apr 25, 2012, 03:01 PM
I took a look at IVI. It produces a file twice the size of an MVK processed with Handbrake using the Apple Universal setting. I'm very pleased with the Handbrake settings. Am I missing something?

mic j
Apr 25, 2012, 03:16 PM
I took a look at IVI. It produces a file twice the size of an MVK processed with Handbrake using the Apple Universal setting. I'm very pleased with the Handbrake settings. Am I missing something?

If you like the video quality, then no, you're not missing anything. We all want the smallest file size possible with the best quality possible...right? HB's h.264 compression is very good and that's why we put up with the less than fancy GIU compared to other products. And did I mention...free?

dynaflash
Apr 25, 2012, 03:30 PM
I took a look at IVI. It produces a file twice the size of an MVK processed with Handbrake using the Apple Universal setting. I'm very pleased with the Handbrake settings. Am I missing something?

IVI uses the HandBrake CLI for compression (albeit outdated). So my presumption would be different settings.

----------

HB's h.264 compression is very good and that's why we put up with the less than fancy GIU compared to other products. And did I mention...free?

HB's GUI's are the way there are for a reason. Not fancy as you pointed out but imo very functional, which in the end is the main thing. They offer total transparency as to what you have chosen as opposed to hiding things in a simple one click interface. The presets should allow basically one click encoding but with that convenience ... you can still always see every single thing that HB is doing at any point.

With iVI I have no clue what settings are being passed to the HB CLI when it transcodes ... UI does not translate that to the user. Hence my previous statement about settings.

mic j
Apr 25, 2012, 03:36 PM
HB's GUI's are the way there are for a reason. Not fancy as you pointed out but imo very functional, which in the end is the main thing. They offer total transparency as to what you have chosen as opposed to hiding things in a simple one click interface. The presets should allow basically one click encoding but with that convenience ... you can still always see every single thing that HB is doing at any point.

Said like a true scholar! ;) And that's exactly why I use it!!

charlien
Apr 25, 2012, 03:50 PM
If you like the video quality, then no, you're not missing anything. We all want the smallest file size possible with the best quality possible...right? HB's h.264 compression is very good and that's why we put up with the less than fancy GIU compared to other products. And did I mention...free?

I'm always looking for the next great app. Handbrake + Identify are still my favorites.

Bymatt
Apr 25, 2012, 07:19 PM
IVI uses the HandBrake CLI for compression (albeit outdated). So my presumption would be different settings.

----------





With iVI I have no clue what settings are being passed to the HB CLI when it transcodes ... UI does not translate that to the user. Hence my previous statement about settings.

I discovered that mediainfo, purchased off the mac store for .99, NOT TO BE CONFUSED with mediainfo Mac, lets me really look into all manner of files. In particular you can look into files created by iVI and many Video apps and see the HB string. I discovered that no matter the quality level I specified, iVI was using CQ20...I THINK it is varying the bit rate though, MDRP shows as using a CQ20 also...... Just find that interesting.

spacepower7
Apr 30, 2012, 11:33 PM
IVI uses the HandBrake CLI for compression (albeit outdated). So my presumption would be different settings.

----------



HB's GUI's are the way there are for a reason. Not fancy as you pointed out but imo very functional, which in the end is the main thing. They offer total transparency as to what you have chosen as opposed to hiding things in a simple one click interface. The presets should allow basically one click encoding but with that convenience ... you can still always see every single thing that HB is doing at any point.

With iVI I have no clue what settings are being passed to the HB CLI when it transcodes ... UI does not translate that to the user. Hence my previous statement about settings.


Hey dynaflash, is there a way to replace the HB CLI within IVI by showing package contents or something? Would that break IVI.

I use handbrake for my own rips but every once in awhile I need to convert a WMV or AVI, don't care about the quality but like the drag and drop interface of IVI and iFlicks. Is there anyway to get better quality out of IVI by replacing the HB CLI?

hafr
May 1, 2012, 03:38 AM
Hey dynaflash, is there a way to replace the HB CLI within IVI by showing package contents or something? Would that break IVI.

I use handbrake for my own rips but every once in awhile I need to convert a WMV or AVI, don't care about the quality but like the drag and drop interface of IVI and iFlicks. Is there anyway to get better quality out of IVI by replacing the HB CLI?

Using iVI should give you a new file with more or less the exact same size as the source. If you want to use it to reduce file size, you'll need to reduce the quality (like from HD to SD, or to make it playable on iPods).

If you want to maximize the quality to size ratio, you're pretty much stuck with using HB.

spacepower7
May 1, 2012, 09:10 PM
Using iVI should give you a new file with more or less the exact same size as the source. If you want to use it to reduce file size, you'll need to reduce the quality (like from HD to SD, or to make it playable on iPods).

If you want to maximize the quality to size ratio, you're pretty much stuck with using HB.

I think you missed what I was saying :)

IVI actually uses the Handbrake Command Line Interface ( HB CLI ) but like dynaflash ( one of the coders of Handbrake ) said, it uses an outdated version. I was just wondering if their is a way to get IVI to use the newer Handbrake engine.

hafr
May 2, 2012, 01:36 AM
I think you missed what I was saying :)

IVI actually uses the Handbrake Command Line Interface ( HB CLI ) but like dynaflash ( one of the coders of Handbrake ) said, it uses an outdated version. I was just wondering if their is a way to get IVI to use the newer Handbrake engine.
I know it does, but I I reckoned you thought that with just changing the engine, you would be able to get the same size/quality ratio with iVI as you would with HB (since you were talking about the difference in file size when the engine discussion started). My bad :)

But if I remember correctly, the first time I installed iVI I had to have HB installed already (or download it and install it) so that the engine would be present on the computer. Maybe my memory is way off, or they're now including the engine in iVI...

Maybe it's possible to edit the contents of iVI and add your own commands as standard? That way you could achieve better size/quality ratio without even touching the engine.

dynaflash
May 2, 2012, 09:24 AM
Hey dynaflash, is there a way to replace the HB CLI within IVI by showing package contents or something? Would that break IVI.
I have no idea. I don't use it.

Fasm Trout
Aug 20, 2012, 08:18 PM
Just wondering why people generally "rip" their Blu-ray collection. Isn't it better to always watch the BD as opposed to a "rip"?

I mainly do it on principle. I've purchased many DVDs and Blu-rays, yet every time I pull them out to watch in a player, I have to sit through ads... and trailers... and FBI warnings... and menu loading screens... etc.

With a ripped version: you push play and the film begins. Perfect.

SunshineFires
Aug 20, 2012, 09:39 PM
You wanna walk in the park? Get the latest iFlicks. Ever since ATV3, I haven't re-encoded anything. Just throw in an MKV to iFlicks and it'll re-mux it super fast. It's got awesome tagging and 1080P tag support as well. Much faster and stabler than Subler. Subler is superior when you want to get into the nitty gritty which I seldom do.

I mean, iFlicks will take any XVID AVIs and remux them without re-encoding if you like!

MKW? Must be from Finland, lol.
This. :)

mic j
Aug 21, 2012, 06:46 AM
This. :)
Subler is very stable now. v0.14 was shaky, 0.15b3 was usually stable, v0.16 is rock solid. Oh...and it's free.

brack
Aug 21, 2012, 07:23 AM
iFlicks for $ 1.99 today only! :D
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iflicks/id408937559?mt=12&ign-mpt=uo%3D4

jdag
Aug 21, 2012, 09:06 AM
iFlicks for $ 1.99 today only! :D
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iflicks/id408937559?mt=12&ign-mpt=uo%3D4

Thanks...for $2 I bought iFlicks it to try out.

As for programs to remux, I've been having the best luck with the combo of MP4tools and Identify. iVI seems to take much longer than MP4tools. And I am not comfortable with the Subler workflow.

I am still debating about converting my entire collection (95% MKV) over to M4V so that I can dispense with my Jailbroken Apple TVs (with old firmware).

hafr
Aug 21, 2012, 09:15 AM
Thanks...for $2 I bought iFlicks it to try out.

It's free for the first two weeks...

jdag
Aug 21, 2012, 09:29 AM
It's free for the first two weeks...

Sure...but now I "own" it for $2...the price of a cup of coffee!

hafr
Aug 21, 2012, 11:12 AM
Sure...but now I "own" it for $2...the price of a cup of coffee!

I'm not saying you're wasting your money, I just felt it was weird buying it to try it when you could try it for free :)

jdag
Aug 21, 2012, 11:23 AM
I'm not saying you're wasting your money, I just felt it was weird buying it to try it when you could try it for free :)

Understand...but in some way/shape/form I am very likely to use it at some point. I thought that the $2 spend (and purchase via the App Store) trumps the demo download (and presumably separate purchase process).

Besides...Apple stock is struggling and I thought I'd help them out of this funk their in! ;-)

mic j
Aug 21, 2012, 11:54 AM
I've tried iFlicks, iVI, mp4Tools, iDentify, metaZ, Simple Movie...you name it, and I have given them all a fair shot.

I always end up back at: MakeMKV (free), Handbrake (free), and Subler (free).

I do use mp4Tools($9)and MkvToolnix (free) for some specific tasks. I think the mp4Tools is going to be worth the $9 once it gets out of it's current beta phase. It's in the process of being re-written and changing encoders.

pmcdunnough
Aug 22, 2012, 04:32 PM
My favourites would be:

Magic Media Marker, iVI Pro, iFlicks, Subler. All of these allow moving mkv tracks to m4v (i.e. remux). Of course Handbrake is also great when transcoding.

Philip

EliCsuf
Aug 23, 2012, 12:48 AM
What's the best tool to convert MKWs to MP4s (to be played on ATV2)?

I've used Handbrake for years and it works well but it seems long to encode.

I tried MP4 Tools and that was quicker but not sure if I am choosing the correct settings.

From MP4 Tools:

Should I be choosing "Pass-Thru" under the audio section even though it is solid Red? "If Red, the option is not recommended".

If I choose AC3 5.1 I don't get an audio.

I've been selecting Pass- Thru and it seems to work okay but just wondering if I am losing any sound quality....

Thanks for any help!


I'm still using VisualHub on Lion and ML.

SuperRob
Aug 24, 2012, 10:35 AM
I'm using Subler. I have about a terabyte of TV and Movies I've converted from MKV to M4V to stream to my Apple TV, and it's been great. I've only had a couple files it seemed to have issue with, but 99% of it has converted flawlessly.

boomhower
Aug 24, 2012, 07:24 PM
After coming across this thread I tried out iFlicks and I will definitely be buying once the trial runs out. I had never heard of remuxing, I had always encoded everything again. Now it's three minutes of iFlicks compared to 1.5HRS of Handbrake. It's one of those apps that are well worth the money.

jdag
Aug 24, 2012, 07:46 PM
After coming across this thread I tried out iFlicks and I will definitely be buying once the trial runs out. I had never heard of remuxing, I had always encoded everything again. Now it's three minutes of iFlicks compared to 1.5HRS of Handbrake. It's one of those apps that are well worth the money.

Not sure if it still on sale, but iFlicks was only $2 the their day. I bought it, but do think I prefer iVI as you have more control.

mic j
Aug 24, 2012, 07:49 PM
After coming across this thread I tried out iFlicks and I will definitely be buying once the trial runs out. I had never heard of remuxing, I had always encoded everything again. Now it's three minutes of iFlicks compared to 1.5HRS of Handbrake. It's one of those apps that are well worth the money.
Subler does the same thing for free...now that's well worth the money. ;)

boomhower
Aug 24, 2012, 09:26 PM
Subler does the same thing for free...now that's well worth the money. ;)

Ok, well now to give that one a go! :)

Menneisyys2
Sep 5, 2012, 03:13 AM
After coming across this thread I tried out iFlicks and I will definitely be buying once the trial runs out. I had never heard of remuxing, I had always encoded everything again. Now it's three minutes of iFlicks compared to 1.5HRS of Handbrake. It's one of those apps that are well worth the money.

BTW, what OS version do you have? On my (clean) ML running on a 8GB late 2009 17" MBP with 2.8 GHz C2D and Vertex 4 SSD, the last (trial) version is unbearably slow to remux. Even off the SSD, it takes it between 15 and 50 minutes to remux videos that the fastest remuxers (e.g., Subler) convert in 2-8 minutes. Otherwise, it'd be an excellent and highly fault-tolerant app - unlike most other remuxers.

boomhower
Sep 6, 2012, 06:39 AM
BTW, what OS version do you have? On my (clean) ML running on a 8GB late 2009 17" MBP with 2.8 GHz C2D and Vertex 4 SSD, the last (trial) version is unbearably slow to remux. Even off the SSD, it takes it between 15 and 50 minutes to remux videos that the fastest remuxers (e.g., Subler) convert in 2-8 minutes. Otherwise, it'd be an excellent and highly fault-tolerant app - unlike most other remuxers.

I'm on ML as well. Something is definitely off then. If all the remuxers were slower I'd say it was the CPU speed but if it's running that much slower than Subler then I don't know what it could be.

Menneisyys2
Sep 6, 2012, 12:39 PM
I'm on ML as well. Something is definitely off then. If all the remuxers were slower I'd say it was the CPU speed but if it's running that much slower than Subler then I don't know what it could be.

I'm at my wits' end. Installed it (trial version) on a clean Lion (10.7.4) on an iMac (500G HDD, 3.06 GHz c2d late 2009 model with 4G RAM).

The remux of "Iron Sky" (main, 16 GB MKV, 5 audio tracks and no subs, direct BR rip done by myself) iFlicks took 34:00 (of which the last 10 minutes was spent on the two final steps: muxing and streaming-friendly conversion). The same file could be converted by Subler (on my other Mac, a 2.8 GHz late 2009 MBP 17" with Vertex 4 SSD) in 6:58 (that is, about five times faster) and by MP4Tools in 20:20.

This isn't because of the HDD vs. SSD - iFlicks behaves in exactly the same way on my SSD-based MBP. Running Subler off a 70...90 Mbyte/s internal HDD would have resulted in at most a 50-80% increase in running time.

Do you think it's because it's a trial version? I won't shell out $20 for an app only to find out it's very slow and can only be used in some special cases when Subler is plain incompatible with the video I want to convert. If the registered version is as slow as the trial one I mean.

mic j
Sep 6, 2012, 12:50 PM
I'm at my wits' end. Installed it (trial version) on a clean Lion (10.7.4) on an iMac (500G HDD, 3.06 GHz c2d late 2009 model with 4G RAM).

The remux of "Iron Sky" (main, 16 GB MKV, 5 audio tracks and no subs, direct BR rip done by myself) iFlicks took 34:00 (of which the last 10 minutes was spent on the two final steps: muxing and streaming-friendly conversion). The same file could be converted by Subler (on my other Mac, a 2.8 GHz late 2009 MBP 17" with Vertex 4 SSD) in 6:58 (that is, about five times faster) and by MP4Tools in 20:20.

This isn't because of the HDD vs. SSD - iFlicks behaves in exactly the same way on my SSD-based MBP. Running Subler off a 70...90 Mbyte/s internal HDD would have resulted in at most a 50-80% increase in running time.

Do you think it's because it's a trial version? I won't shell out $20 for an app only to find out it's very slow and can only be used in some special cases when Subler is plain incompatible with the video I want to convert. If the registered version is as slow as the trial one I mean.
So why not just go with Subler and for those "special occasions" (and I assume you mean when you need a dts track converted to AC3) use mp4tools? All this is free (yes, I know mp4tools has a nag screen you have to put up with). Why is iFlicks worth $20?

Menneisyys2
Sep 6, 2012, 12:57 PM
So why not just go with Subler and for those "special occasions" (and I assume you mean when you need a dts track converted to AC3) use mp4tools? All this is free (yes, I know mp4tools has a nag screen you have to put up with). Why is iFlicks worth $20?

Only iFlicks and Subler have usable (ASS / SRT) sub support - all the others (incl. Smart) don't. I've found iFlicks to be more compatible with MKV files Subler can't read (there aren't many of them tho) - this is why I'm trying to make it work and to find out whether it's indeed worth the $20.

mic j
Sep 6, 2012, 01:14 PM
Only iFlicks and Subler have usable (ASS / SRT) sub support - all the others (incl. Smart) don't. I've found iFlicks to be more compatible with MKV files Subler can't read (there aren't many of them tho) - this is why I'm trying to make it work and to find out whether it's indeed worth the $20.

I thought mp4tools also was able to either burn in or add as separate track srt subtitles. If not in the regular version, have you tried the beta which has been totally re-written to use ffmeg instead of mplayer?

Menneisyys2
Sep 6, 2012, 05:45 PM
I thought mp4tools also was able to either burn in or add as separate track srt subtitles. If not in the regular version, have you tried the beta which has been totally re-written to use ffmeg instead of mplayer?

The (textual) sub support of the non-beta version was awful - it messed up everything with files with more than one sub track.

The new beta indeed rocks. It not only retains the subs (all of them), but is also, in average, two times faster than the prev. version and I've never encountered crashes - unlike with the old version.

It's still 40...100% slower than Subler, though and, in addition, I've found some direct BR rips it just couldn't remux, as opposed to the prev. version. Two examples: the Iron Sky trailer from the official Finnish BR disc and the behind the scenes from the same BR disc. These couldn't be converted: the app created a useless, 4 kByte-file in 1-2 second, independent of audio selection.

The main movie from the disc was remuxed 2 times faster than in the prev. version.

Menneisyys2
Sep 7, 2012, 12:33 PM
I'm at my wits' end. Installed it (trial version) on a clean Lion (10.7.4) on an iMac (500G HDD, 3.06 GHz c2d late 2009 model with 4G RAM).

The remux of "Iron Sky" (main, 16 GB MKV, 5 audio tracks and no subs, direct BR rip done by myself) iFlicks took 34:00 (of which the last 10 minutes was spent on the two final steps: muxing and streaming-friendly conversion). The same file could be converted by Subler (on my other Mac, a 2.8 GHz late 2009 MBP 17" with Vertex 4 SSD) in 6:58 (that is, about five times faster) and by MP4Tools in 20:20.

This isn't because of the HDD vs. SSD - iFlicks behaves in exactly the same way on my SSD-based MBP. Running Subler off a 70...90 Mbyte/s internal HDD would have resulted in at most a 50-80% increase in running time.

Do you think it's because it's a trial version? I won't shell out $20 for an app only to find out it's very slow and can only be used in some special cases when Subler is plain incompatible with the video I want to convert. If the registered version is as slow as the trial one I mean.

Continued with playing with iFlicks and the other remuxers. Still no success. Interestingly, it (last iFlicks running in trial mode) converts small, 300-400 Mbyte files with the same or even higher speed as Subler. For example, the Iron Sky trailer available at https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/082012/periansubler/IronSkyTEASER.mkv is converted even faster(!) than by Subler, in 8 seconds on the late 2009, HDD-based, 3.06GHz / 500GB / 4GB iMac.

However, larger (2-3 Gbytes and more) files are converted appr. five times slower than with Subler or (in average) three times slower than with the new beta of MP4Tools.

This is entirely independent of whether Perian is installed or not or the system is Lion or ML or it's running on HDD or SSD.

alexeliasson
Sep 24, 2012, 03:02 PM
Great thread guys!

Recently bought me an Apple TV 3. I'm getting closer and closer to the Apple landscape, but I only have an iPhone and ATV3 so far. iPad is the next thing coming.

Anyways. I've riped my original blu-ray library to my PC. The average size is around 6gb (720p) and the container is .mkv.

If I want to convert these files to be playable on a ATV3, which PC-software would you guys recommend?

I would like the quality to remain the same, but I also want the quickest solution.

Thanks in advance!

Andy C
Oct 4, 2012, 06:10 PM
I'm amazed no one has mentioned Remux for Mac (http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/35968/remux/). It changes container, e.g. MKV -> MP4, but without re-encoding.

I have a Feb 2011 MBP and it converts 1GB 720p TV rips from MKV to MP4 for playback on my PS3 in 15 seconds or less.


A.

mic j
Oct 4, 2012, 07:20 PM
I'm amazed no one has mentioned Remux for Mac (http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/35968/remux/). It changes container, e.g. MKV -> MP4, but without re-encoding.

I have a Feb 2011 MBP and it converts 1GB 720p TV rips from MKV to MP4 for playback on my PS3 in 15 seconds or less.


A.

I will speculate that most of us already use Subler, or mp4Tools to do that. Frankly, I find it worth the time to covert (which I mostly do overnight). MP4 quality is excellent, use disc space efficiently and BR's load quickly and play without a glitch over wifi.

pmcdunnough
Nov 19, 2012, 06:10 PM
Only iFlicks and Subler have usable (ASS / SRT) sub support - all the others (incl. Smart) don't. I've found iFlicks to be more compatible with MKV files Subler can't read (there aren't many of them tho) - this is why I'm trying to make it work and to find out whether it's indeed worth the $20.

What's wrong with iVI (Pro)?

philip

Menneisyys2
Nov 19, 2012, 06:24 PM
What's wrong with iVI (Pro)?

philip

It's slow and unreliable with MKV remuxing - see my review.

pmcdunnough
Nov 19, 2012, 06:39 PM
It's slow and unreliable with MKV remuxing - see my review.

Have you tried the latest version? Doesn't seem slow to me, nor unreliable. It would be nice if it would not be quite so strict with the audio pass through. There have been quite a few reviews of iVI. It used to be slow for mkv remuxing but that is no longer the case, though iFlicks is faster.

Philip

Menneisyys2
Nov 20, 2012, 01:45 AM
Have you tried the latest version? Doesn't seem slow to me, nor unreliable. It would be nice if it would not be quite so strict with the audio pass through. There have been quite a few reviews of iVI. It used to be slow for mkv remuxing but that is no longer the case, though iFlicks is faster.

Philip

Yes, I did (3.257, last updated in March; purchased from the Mac AppStore). It's especially slow with videos with several subtitle tracks - with them, remuxing can take hours(!). With a source MKV without subtitles, it's faster but still at least five slower than Subler.

iVI is a great app for, say, MTS remuxing but MKV remuxing isn't the strongest side of it.

chiefpavvy
Nov 20, 2012, 01:51 AM
Yes, I did (3.257, last updated in March; purchased from the Mac AppStore). It's especially slow with videos with several subtitle tracks - with them, remuxing can take hours(!). With a source MKV without subtitles, it's faster but still at least five slower than Subler.

iVI is a great app for, say, MTS remuxing but MKV remuxing isn't the strongest side of it.

I've used the Pro version of iVI for a long time now. It's not available in the MAS you need to purchase through the developers' web site. I don't know about "slow" as I have literally done over 400 remux of MKV with nary a hitch. And my Mac is a relic these days (late 2008 MacBook)

Menneisyys2
Nov 20, 2012, 02:01 AM
I've used the Pro version of iVI for a long time now. It's not available in the MAS you need to purchase through the developers' web site. I don't know about "slow" as I have literally done over 400 remux of MKV with nary a hitch. And my Mac is a relic these days (late 2008 MacBook)

1. IIRC, the only diff between the Pro and non-Pro (AppStore) version is the lack of DVD ripping support in the latter.

2. did those MKV's have subs and if they did, did you remux them all? (The default seting is just remuxing the first, not all.)

pmcdunnough
Nov 20, 2012, 05:05 PM
I don't quite understand the claimed slowness of the iVI (Pro) remux. It takes less than 3 minutes for a one hour 720p video with Dolby audio (but no subtitles). Subler does not take under a minute to do the same thing unless it doesn't convert the Dolby audio. iFlicks takes around 2 minutes or less and is faster but it does much less. Subler is ok but it doesn't automate the process, have watched folders, etc ... In any case the remuxing capabilities of all three are really good. I can't imagine iVI taking an hour to remux anything. Something is odd.

Philip

chiefpavvy
Nov 21, 2012, 12:36 AM
I don't quite understand the claimed slowness of the iVI (Pro) remux. It takes less than 3 minutes for a one hour 720p video with Dolby audio (but no subtitles). Subler does not take under a minute to do the same thing unless it doesn't convert the Dolby audio. iFlicks takes around 2 minutes or less and is faster but it does much less. Subler is ok but it doesn't automate the process, have watched folders, etc ... In any case the remuxing capabilities of all three are really good. I can't imagine iVI taking an hour to remux anything. Something is odd.

Philip

This. I've used them all and IMHO, iVI is the best of the bunch. I do not do subtitles at all don't need or want them. I understand some do and perhaps one of the other options is better for that. I bought Pro because I wanted the DVD import functionality. It's not perfect but very good. I have never used Subler for these tasks, only to optimize and tag if needed.

I sure wish the iVI author would make a Windows equivalent because all the options I've tried on Win suck bad. Not even close to iVI.

ViperDesign
Nov 28, 2012, 05:41 PM
I tried them all and to be honest, the fastest one for me (rMBP) would be AnyVideo Converter HD.

It is extremely quick even on the retina MacBook pro.

mikeheenan
Dec 1, 2012, 05:25 PM
I have several videos with low audio that I want to boost the audio to normalize it, and also several foreign movies with foreign tracks that I want to replace with an english audio track without re encoding the video. Which would be the best app for this purpose?

mic j
Dec 1, 2012, 05:42 PM
I have several videos with low audio that I want to boost the audio to normalize it, and also several foreign movies with foreign tracks that I want to replace with an english audio track without re encoding the video. Which would be the best app for this purpose?
Subler can do that. If you're on a Mac.

ViperDesign
Dec 1, 2012, 05:45 PM
I tried them all and to be honest, the fastest one for me (rMBP) would be AnyVideo Converter HD.

It is extremely quick even on the retina MacBook pro.

So after more testing this solution is without a doubt the quickest converter

mikeheenan
Dec 1, 2012, 07:17 PM
Subler can do that. If you're on a Mac.


I am... thanks, I'll try it out!

mikeheenan
Dec 6, 2012, 12:35 PM
Is there a way on Subler to "batch" change multiple files, like for instance a season of a tv show with the same settings? Or do you have to do each file separately?

mic j
Dec 6, 2012, 01:57 PM
Is there a way on Subler to "batch" change multiple files, like for instance a season of a tv show with the same settings? Or do you have to do each file separately?
Adjustment would be done separately but you can adjust the setting and add it to the queue, then let Subler do its adjustment on multiple files.

Blaquespell
Dec 6, 2012, 02:01 PM
I don't quite understand the claimed slowness of the iVI (Pro) remux. It takes less than 3 minutes for a one hour 720p video with Dolby audio (but no subtitles). Subler does not take under a minute to do the same thing unless it doesn't convert the Dolby audio. iFlicks takes around 2 minutes or less and is faster but it does much less. Subler is ok but it doesn't automate the process, have watched folders, etc ... In any case the remuxing capabilities of all three are really good. I can't imagine iVI taking an hour to remux anything. Something is odd.

Philip

On a couple occasions, I did have iVI take a good while to remux. It was something about the video encoding of the file. I emailed Southpole Software about why sometimes it did a full re-encode even when the UI said Pass-thru was okay, but they just said that iVI makes a determination when attempting to remux and that if it is deemed incompatible with the target device, it will go ahead and re-encode.

mic j
Dec 6, 2012, 02:04 PM
On a couple occasions, I did have iVI take a good while to remux. It was something about the video encoding of the file. I emailed Southpole Software about why sometimes it did a full re-encode even when the UI said Pass-thru was okay, but they just said that iVI makes a determination when attempting to remux and that if it is deemed incompatible with the target device, it will go ahead and re-encode.
WOW!!!! Thats a nice feature....not. :eek:

SeanDetente
Dec 9, 2012, 03:07 AM
Why would you pay so much money to encode/remux AVC files? FFMPEG or MP4BOX can do practically all your remuxing...I suppose when a guy pays several thousand dollars to not to have think when using his computer, using these tools is beyond reproach.

Menneisyys2
Dec 9, 2012, 04:59 AM
I tried them all and to be honest, the fastest one for me (rMBP) would be AnyVideo Converter HD.

It is extremely quick even on the retina MacBook pro.

It's indeed (about 13%) a bit faster than Subler when outputting to m4v , preferably in iPad 3 mode. (Interestingly, MOV exporting has turned out to be about two times slower.)

Too bad it's certainly lacking in several IMHO key areas:

- subtitles support is far more inferior: not even embedded textual subs are properly handled (at least with the Monsters test video: http://www.auby.no/files/video_tests/h264_1080p_hp_4.1_10mbps_dts_unstyled_subs_monsters.mkv ), let alone bitmap ones (Subler can both OCR VobSub subs or just pass-thru them)

- no support for exporting more than one audio track (unlike Subler)

- no chapter pass-thru support (unlike Subler, which even passes thru the chapter thumbnail images).

Of course, if you don't want subs and/or multiple (input) audio track support, then, it's an excellent app with certainly better batch support than that of Subler.

Menneisyys2
Dec 9, 2012, 05:10 AM
I don't quite understand the claimed slowness of the iVI (Pro) remux. It takes less than 3 minutes for a one hour 720p video with Dolby audio (but no subtitles). Subler does not take under a minute to do the same thing unless it doesn't convert the Dolby audio. iFlicks takes around 2 minutes or less and is faster but it does much less. Subler is ok but it doesn't automate the process, have watched folders, etc ... In any case the remuxing capabilities of all three are really good. I can't imagine iVI taking an hour to remux anything. Something is odd.

Philip

Today, I've made some serious tests. (Late 2009 MBP 17" with 2.8 GHz c2d; source HDD is a 1TB one in the DVD bay; target drive is a Vertex 4 256 GB with 55 GB free) The source was a 16 GB MKV I've directly ripped from the Finland-only version of Iron Sky. It has four audio tracks (5.1 + 2-ch AC3 for the main audio + 2-ch AC3 Finnish + English commentary tracks) and a chapter track.

iVI Pro took 51m:24s to remux the video with all four audio tracks enabled in the output (most of the time was spent on audio reencoding and particularly adding). The other converters did fare far better:

Subler: 7m:0s (measured twice) (With fewer audio tracks, it's a bit faster: 5m:58s (to 2-ch AAC); 6:07 (to multichannel AAC) for one track and 6m:10s for two)

MKV2M4V: I couldn't test this with four audio tracks as it's only able to process up to two input tracks. The results with the latter are as follows: 12m:55s (measured twice) for two tracks and 13m:48s for one.

MP4Tools beta: 18m:50s. (With fewer audio tracks, it's considerably faster: 7m:40s for one track and 12m:50s for two)

AnyVideo Converter HD: could only test the one-track output as it doesn't support multi-track export: 4m:20s (2ch AC3 -> 2-channel AAC; iPad 3 preset, everything auto); 5m:18s (5.1 -> 2ch AAC, iPad 3 preset, manually selected 5.1 AC3 input); 8m:32s (to AAC 5.1 – the 1080p Mac MOV preset)

That is, iVI is particularly slow at converting videos with more than one audio track (if you want to keep them in the output). In this case, it was almost ten(!) times slower than Subler.

EDIT: when converting one audio track only, iVI needs 24m:18s to make the output file ready. That is, almost two times more than the second-slowest converter, MKV2M4V; more than three and four times slower than MP4Tools and Subler, respectively. Finally, it turned out to be about six times slower than AnyVideo Converter HD. (All with one track only.)

mikeheenan
Dec 21, 2012, 09:57 AM
There's a lot of discussion about Subler in this thread so I figured I'd post this question here. I have a mp4 and a sub/idx for it, but I'd rather convert the sub file to srt and then run the video and srt file through subler to bring it into the same container. I opened the sub file in Jubler, but all the resulting text became miscellaneous characters. Anyone know of a program to convert it?

Menneisyys2
Dec 23, 2012, 04:53 AM
There's a lot of discussion about Subler in this thread so I figured I'd post this question here. I have a mp4 and a sub/idx for it, but I'd rather convert the sub file to srt and then run the video and srt file through subler to bring it into the same container. I opened the sub file in Jubler, but all the resulting text became miscellaneous characters. Anyone know of a program to convert it?

1, you CAN put VobSub files in an Apple-native container. I've even written a tutorial on it (it's around somewhere at MacRumors). Basically, use MKVtoolnix and click the Add button. Add the IDX files (only – no need to manually add the .sub files). You can mass-add them if you use the Cmd key while clicking for multiple selection.

2, should you want to switch to SRT (so that for example the ATV also displays them, not only dekstop / iOS players), you either

- use Subler for OCR'ing (fastest, won't incur synch problems but VERY prone to OCR errors)

- get the sub from an online repository to avoid OCR errors BUT prone to synch problems

- use SubRip for strictly (see http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=15964253&postcount=50 ) non-HD stuff.

(This is also explained in my tutorial - I can't find it here at MR now. Will re-post it as a guide, not as a forum post so that it can easily be found.)

mikeheenan
Jan 14, 2013, 02:37 PM
Had a Make MKV question... When I select a Blu Ray image, some of the audio options are not preselected. Why is this? Also the program seems to detect extra audio tracks. For instance I have a movie that has 3 audio tracks, a DTS MA 5.1, DTS MA 2.0, and a second DTS MA 2.0 track. In Make MKV, the program has these tracks deselected, and the non MA tracks selected. Anyone else run into a problem like this?

mic j
Jan 14, 2013, 03:11 PM
Had a Make MKV question... When I select a Blu Ray image, some of the audio options are not preselected. Why is this? Also the program seems to detect extra audio tracks. For instance I have a movie that has 3 audio tracks, a DTS MA 5.1, DTS MA 2.0, and a second DTS MA 2.0 track. In Make MKV, the program has these tracks deselected, and the non MA tracks selected. Anyone else run into a problem like this?
It's not a problem, it's supposed to work that way. It defaults to non-HD audio tracks and, since HD audio tracks can be large, it makes you select them intentionally. Usually, the stereo tracks are commentary or the such. IIRC, there is a way to override the default behavior using CLI or something. The MakeMKV forum would be a good place to find out how to do that.

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 10:24 AM
I'm with you on the free tools Mic J -
MAKEMKV, SUBLER, HANDBREAK
with exception of MP4tools (find it confusing)
However Mic J you said some posts back MP4Tools is great converting DTS to AC3.
But SUBLER does that as well with PERIAN installed correct? Just double checking because i thought that is what i gave been doing lol

The support for these FREE platforms on this Forum has been as incredible as the files these tools produce! So I encourage everyone to take the time and dig in! You won't be disappointed!

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 10:42 AM
I'm with you on the free tools Mic J -
MAKEMKV, SUBLER, HANDBREAK
with exception of MP4tools (find it confusing)
However Mic J you said some posts back MP4Tools is great converting DTS to AC3.
But SUBLER does that as well with PERIAN installed correct? Just double checking because i thought that is what i gave been doing lol

The support for these FREE platforms on this Forum has been as incredible as the files these tools produce! So I encourage everyone to take the time and dig in! You won't be disappointed!
I could be wrong about this, as I don't use Subler for audio track conversion, but my current understanding is that Subler will convert DTS to AAC 5.1 but not AC3 5.1. And the AAC 5.1 format is supported by only a few AVR's.

Anyone else know whether this is correct or not?

dynaflash
Jan 15, 2013, 11:41 AM
I could be wrong about this, as I don't use Subler for audio track conversion, but my current understanding is that Subler will convert DTS to AAC 5.1 but not AC3 5.1. And the AAC 5.1 format is supported by only a few AVR's.

Anyone else know whether this is correct or not?

Correct. Subler cannot encode DTS to AC3 even with Perian installed. It can go to AAC whichever you choose. For the AppleTV you would not want 6 discrete channels as it munges 6 channel discrete AAC down to a strange 3.0 mix. You would want Dolby Pro Logic II.

Btw, Perian therefore subler cannot decode a DTS or DTS-HD track with more than 6 channels. So if your source is say DTS 7.1 it won't work. 5.1 is fine.

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 12:06 PM
Thanks Dynaflash for clearing that up, so basically for just switching the MKV container to Mp4 WITH a DTS track then I must use
MP4Tools because it will change the discrete DTS to AC3.

That being said is it then transcoding the quality and size etc of the file like HB or just switching the container like SUBLER does but with the new AC3 audio (from DTS)?

I only ask because this is why MP4TOOLS confuses... It can work like HB but also has a straight container switch option like SUBLER ?

Thanks for any further clarification guys

dynaflash
Jan 15, 2013, 12:10 PM
Thanks Dynaflash for clearing that up, so basically for just switching the MKV container to Mp4 WITH a DTS track then I must use
MP4Tools because it will change the discrete DTS to AC3.

That being said is it then transcoding the quality and size etc of the file like HB or just switching the container like SUBLER does but with the new AC3 audio (from DTS)?

I only ask because this is why MP4TOOLS confuses... It can work like HB but also has a straight container switch option like SUBLER ?

Thanks for any further clarification guys

No clue, I never use mp4tools.

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 12:14 PM
I don't like to either. Strictly HB when ripping my own Blu's. but when I have a MKV that has already been downsized with great Quality etc. I just want to switch container, some of those MKV's gave only the DTS so that is why I asked how to retain that discrete audio somehow.
Thanks again Jim

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 12:47 PM
I don't like to either. Strictly HB when ripping my own Blu's. but when I have a MKV that has already been downsized with great Quality etc. I just want to switch container, some of those MKV's gave only the DTS so that is why I asked how to retain that discrete audio somehow.
Thanks again Jim
mp4tools can accomplish the same as Subler (change containers) with the addition of converting DTS to AC3 and easily adding an AAC stereo track. Subler has the capability to add metadata and OCR subtitle tracks for conversion to srt files. Menneisyys2, who also post around here, also claims Subler to be faster than mp4tools.

To just change containers in mp4tools and create an AC3 5.1 audio track from a DTS track: select video pass-through, audio AC3 5.1 and add 2-Ch. track (if you need that compatibility).

If you would like to change containers using DTS with Subler: Open the original mkv in mp4tools, check the 2 DTS tracks (if HD audio), audio AC3 (5.1), add 2-channel AC3. Convert. Then use Subler to mux the video track (from the original mkv) with the 2 audio tracks from the mp4 (produced by mp4tools).

I just think it's more straightforward to change containers (for files with DTS audio) using mp4tools than to basically create the audio tracks and remux them. But to each his own.

IMO, for any video needing transcoding, use HB and add metadata using Subler. I just don't know what is being done in mp4tools for transcoding and I have long experience with HB transcodes and know that they are the best. Also, because mp4tools uses 1/2 pass transcodes instead of constant quality (as HB does), that makes me believe it uses older algorithms for the transcodes.

Edit: I was just looking at mp4tools with a dts mkv and noticed that if you do not select the video for pass-through, it will not give you the option to create an 2-channel AAC track. Never noticed that before and not sure why it requires the video to be selected to give that option.

JRoDDz
Jan 15, 2013, 12:59 PM
MKV and MP4 are simply containers and not codecs. If your MKV file is encoded in h.264 then it's as simple as remuxing the file with subler or mp4tools. If your MKV has a different codec such as xvid, then you have to re-encode the whole video as muxing will not work.

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 01:04 PM
MKV and MP4 are simply containers and not codecs. If your MKV file is encoded in h.264 then it's as simple as remuxing the file with subler or mp4tools. If your MKV has a different codec such as xvid, then you have to re-encode the whole video as muxing will not work.
It's not quite that simple, using Subler, if you have a DTS audio track in the mkv and want to play the mp4 using aTV.

JRoDDz
Jan 15, 2013, 01:07 PM
It's not quite that simple, using Subler, if you have a DTS audio track in the mkv and want to play the mp4 using aTV.

Foiled again by mic j! LOL. You're right regarding the DTS tracks. :) I try to keep my video files simple, 1 video track, 1 (2 channel) audio track, and a 1 subtitle track.

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 01:28 PM
Foiled again by mic j! LOL. You're right regarding the DTS tracks. :) I try to keep my video files simple, 1 video track, 1 (2 channel) audio track, and a 1 subtitle track.

The real funny thing...I don't remux anything!! :eek:

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 02:59 PM
mp4tools can accomplish the same as Subler (change containers) with the addition of converting DTS to AC3 and easily adding an AAC stereo track. Subler has the capability to add metadata and OCR subtitle tracks for conversion to srt files. Menneisyys2, who also post around here, also claims Subler to be faster than mp4tools.

To just change containers in mp4tools and create an AC3 5.1 audio track from a DTS track: select video pass-through, audio AC3 5.1 and add 2-Ch. track (if you need that compatibility).

If you would like to change containers using DTS with Subler: Open the original mkv in mp4tools, check the 2 DTS tracks (if HD audio), audio AC3 (5.1), add 2-channel AC3. Convert. Then use Subler to mux the video track (from the original mkv) with the 2 audio tracks from the mp4 (produced by mp4tools).

I just think it's more straightforward to change containers (for files with DTS audio) using mp4tools than to basically create the audio tracks and remux them. But to each his own.

IMO, for any video needing transcoding, use HB and add metadata using Subler. I just don't know what is being done in mp4tools for transcoding and I have long experience with HB transcodes and know that they are the best. Also, because mp4tools uses 1/2 pass transcodes instead of constant quality (as HB does), that makes me believe it uses older algorithms for the transcodes.

Edit: I was just looking at mp4tools with a dts mkv and noticed that if you do not select the video for pass-through, it will not give you the option to create an 2-channel AAC track. Never noticed that before and not sure why it requires the video to be selected to give that option.

Basically guys I always use MakeMKV, HandBreak & SUBLER when ripping my Blu-ray collection to great success thanks to this forum, so i never have to worry about the DTS because HB always takes care of that. However I have come across ; ) MKV files that have all ready been ripped (reduced in size)by others at great quality! So switching containers is all i want to do! I do not want to compromise quality or size further.

That being said,
these MKV's sometimes have a single DTS track as explained above, which is why i asked the question. I realize now I cannot just run a MKV w/DTS audio and end up with a discrete 5.1 AC3 track now.

So lets see if i got the workflow correct here:

1.) MKV w/DTS 5.1 goes thru MP4Tools 1st just to switch container and the DTS to AC3! No transcoding etc. takes place! Resulting in the same quality and size.

2.) I then take this file and run it through Subler to tag & optimize! AC3 audio is now present and looks like an MKV that never had DTS to begin with : )

3.) Happy Camper!

Thanks Again Mic J
I learned a hell of a lot today and home from work and ready to try!

My version of MP4Tools is Version 3.2.b15 is that the Beta?

dynaflash
Jan 15, 2013, 03:14 PM
Good luck. That said if the workflow gets to be a pita might want to test and see how the atv 3 preset in HB does in terms of perceptual visual quality. yes it will lose some quality (course you can always raise the quality level from say .. 20 to 19) but the point is many people once they actually do a visual test on say a 50" 1080p tv have a hard time telling the difference if at all. The trick is losing "quality" where the human eye really cannot perceive it.

That said sounds like you have a decent workflow. Sometimes the journey is more gratifying than the destination. Good luck and have fun!

JMEANS
Jan 15, 2013, 03:18 PM
Thanks Dynaflash much appreciated! Just downloaded the New NIGHTLY and my,my, my that is snazzy! Certainly going to be hard to go back like you said!
JIM

mic j
Jan 15, 2013, 03:24 PM
Basically guys I always use MakeMKV, HandBreak & SUBLER when ripping my Blu-ray collection to great success thanks to this forum, so i never have to worry about the DTS because HB always takes care of that. However I have come across ; ) MKV files that have all ready been ripped (reduced in size)by others at great quality! So switching containers is all i want to do! I do not want to compromise quality or size further.

That being said,
these MKV's sometimes have a single DTS track as explained above, which is why i asked the question. I realize now I cannot just run a MKV w/DTS audio and end up with a discrete 5.1 AC3 track now.

So lets see if i got the workflow correct here:

1.) MKV w/DTS 5.1 goes thru MP4Tools 1st just to switch container and the DTS to AC3! No transcoding etc. takes place! Resulting in the same quality and size.

2.) I then take this file and run it through Subler to tag & optimize! AC3 audio is now present and looks like an MKV that never had DTS to begin with : )

3.) Happy Camper!

Thanks Again Mic J
I learned a hell of a lot today and home from work and ready to try!

My version of MP4Tools is Version 3.2.b15 is that the Beta?

Sounds like a plan. If you want a 2-channel track other iDevice compatibility, you can select the 2-channel AAC radio button. Finally you are using an older version of mp4tools. It is out of beta and you can download the release version 3.2.2.

Good luck!

dynaflash
Jan 15, 2013, 03:44 PM
Thanks Dynaflash much appreciated! Just downloaded the New NIGHTLY and my,my, my that is snazzy! Certainly going to be hard to go back like you said!
JIM
Well, bear in mind that we are switching some of the presets a bit however, the built in presets on the nightly you just downloaded will be the same as before. That new video tab interface is not yet connected to the built ins which is good as its backwards compatible. Basically you can still use the advanced panel to "tweak" things. in the next few weeks it will switch to the new x264 presets system. No worries it should be seamless. Have fun.

Menneisyys2
Jan 18, 2013, 01:52 PM
That being said is it then transcoding the quality and size etc of the file like HB or just switching the container like SUBLER does but with the new AC3 audio (from DTS)?

(mic_j has already answered your post; I only answer to provide additional info.)

Unfortunately, HB will, it seems, never receive plain remuxing capabilities - the developers stated they, because of the synch issues, don't want to add remuxing (see https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24619&p=113896 for more info). That is, you absolutely must use other tools (Subler / MP4Tools etc.) for quick, no-video-reencoding conversions.

----------

Menneisyys2, who also post around here, also claims Subler to be faster than mp4tools.

Yup, it is faster. I've conducted a lot of benchmarks; the most up-to-date ones are at https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/122012/09mkv2/mkv2-chart.html (it's a chart link). As you can see, the more audio tracks you convert with MP4Tools, the (much) slower it becomes, while Subler doesn't take that much a hit.

(More info and result evaluation in the MKV2M4V article at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1504900 ).

mic j
Jan 18, 2013, 04:01 PM
By the way, I converted an mkv (mpeg2) to mp4 (h.264) the other day using the new version of mp4tools (3.2.2). The beginning and ending file sizes were almost identical and it took about 3 hours to do the conversion. After consulting with the developer, the lightbulb finally went on!!! mp4tools is not meant to replace HB. It is actually for just changing the container on a file already using h.264 codec (we knew that already, right?) or (and here is my divine revelation) changing the container on an mpeg2 while transcoding the mpeg2 to h.264 but with no compression. Same bitrate (thus file size) on original and transcoded file. Duh!!!

I have no idea about the perceived quality difference going from mpeg2 to h.264 but I would think they would be minimal since no compression is occurring. Right?

Of course, the larger file size might also not give you any better file size than an a HB compressed file.

iHailCarlo
Jan 18, 2013, 05:31 PM
Handbrake and iFlicks is all anyone needs.

mic j
Jan 18, 2013, 06:16 PM
Handbrake and iFlicks is all anyone needs.

Why do you think that?

Menneisyys2
Jan 20, 2013, 12:30 AM
Handbrake and iFlicks is all anyone needs.

Why stick with iFlicks when there're much better (faster) alternatives around, even for free?

Menneisyys2
Jan 20, 2013, 12:40 AM
By the way, I converted an mkv (mpeg2) to mp4 (h.264) the other day using the new version of mp4tools (3.2.2). The beginning and ending file sizes were almost identical and it took about 3 hours to do the conversion. After consulting with the developer, the lightbulb finally went on!!! mp4tools is not meant to replace HB. It is actually for just changing the container on a file already using h.264 codec (we knew that already, right?) or (and here is my divine revelation) changing the container on an mpeg2 while transcoding the mpeg2 to h.264 but with no compression. Same bitrate (thus file size) on original and transcoded file. Duh!!!

I have no idea about the perceived quality difference going from mpeg2 to h.264 but I would think they would be minimal since no compression is occurring. Right?

Of course, the larger file size might also not give you any better file size than an a HB compressed file.

MP4Tools always defaults to using exactly the same bitrate as the input video, even when it's absolutely not necessary. (For example, with MPEG-2 -> H.264 conversion, where you can safely use half a target bitrate.) This is why it produces that big files.

The solution is simply overriding its default when converting (remuxing) MPEG2 MKV's like the one at https://dl.dropbox.com/u/13100693/html/042012RetinaHDVideoPlayers/lupaus-ads-orig.mkv . With that video, the original bitrate is 4.3Mbps. Using 1.5 MBps target bitrate is just fine.

iHailCarlo
Jan 20, 2013, 10:54 AM
Why stick with iFlicks when there're much better (faster) alternatives around, even for free?

Can you tell me about some free ones that are good? The ones I have used like MetaZ and the like all suck and didnt give me what I wanted. iFlicks has been real easy to use and tags everything I throw into it and then moves it to iTunes. Let me know.

Menneisyys2
Jan 20, 2013, 02:38 PM
Can you tell me about some free ones that are good? The ones I have used like MetaZ and the like all suck and didnt give me what I wanted. iFlicks has been real easy to use and tags everything I throw into it and then moves it to iTunes. Let me know.

For example, the free Subler. I've quickly written a full tutorial to show how easy it is:

TUTORIAL: automatically adding video metadata to your videos using the excellent, free(!) Subler

In my Video Metadata bible & Roundup (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1511080), I've already mentioned Subler is capable of manually editing / adding video metadata. After having been asked (thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1358947&page=6) with numerous, advice-packed posts from me) about doing the same with Subler, I've decided to publish a writeup on doing the same automatically. After all, online video metadata libraries like themoviedb.org have excellent metadata for a lot of flicks.

O.K., let's see how all this is done with Subler, the absolutely stunning, excellent, fastest (see my latest benchmarks HERE (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1504900), also discussed in THIS (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1358947) thread - see mic_j's starting post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=16667695&postcount=125)) video remuxer and (audio) converter tool around.

1, load the MP4 / M4V / MOV video file you need to add metadata to via Cmd + O or File > Open. For this tutorial, I've used a remuxed (actually, via HandBrake, entirely re-converted) version of the standardized Monsters, Inc. test video slice available HERE (http://www.auby.no/files/video_tests/h264_1080p_hp_4.1_10mbps_dts_unstyled_subs_monsters.mkv).

You'll see something like this:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata1.jpeg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata1.png)

(As with all the other screenshots in this article, click for the much bigger and better-quality, original image.)
(In this case, the screenshot shows the video has, in addition to a video and a subtitle track, two audio tracks – an AC3 and an AAC one – and has been created by HandBrake.)

Now, go to File > Import > Search metadata online. Subler will try to make a guess, based on the filename, on the movie contained in the file. In this case, as the video file was called “Monsters.m4v”, it lists everything containing “Monsters”. The third item in the list (you can quickly click it), shown in the screenshot below, contains Monsters, Inc. - the one we're looking for:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata2.jpeg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata2.png)


Now, just click “Add” in the bottom right corner. You'll be taken to the artwork addition dialog:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata3t.jpeg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata3.jpeg)

After selecting the image you'd like to use as an artwork, just click “Set as Artwork” in the bottom right corner.

After this, you're done. You're returned to the track list, where the (by default, selected) “Metadata” tab at the bottom shows the just-added metadata:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata4.jpeg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata4.png)

(compare this screenshot to the first one, which only has the “Encoding Tool” value in it.)

After this, just press Cmd + S (or select File > Save) to save the new metadata to the file. The just-saved file will contain metadata compatible with iTunes. An iTunes screenshot (the stock iOS “Videos” app, after synchronizing the video to your iDevice, will also display the metadata):

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata5t.jpeg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata5.jpeg)
Doing the same in batch mode

If you don't mind false hits (adding the metadata of the wrong movie) or is absolutely sure your filenames have all the necessary info to properly identify the movie, you can also use Subler's automatic (batch) queue mode.

To use it, go to Window > Show Queue. You'll see the following (screenshot taken after clicking the down arrow in the bottom right, annotated in the screenshot below, to show the checkboxes at the bottom):

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata6.jpeg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata6.png)

The “Fetch metadata” will be the only checkbox that is checked by default. Should you want to make your files streamable (see THIS (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=16361320&postcount=2) for more info on when it's needed), you might also want to check the “Optimize” checkbox on the left.

Now, drag-and-drop all the files you'd like to convert in the upper pane of the same window. In the following screenshot, two such files are shown: “harry potter.mkv” and “Monsters Inc.mkv”. Note that I've deliberately chosen an ambiguous name for the former video so that I can test whether the medatata selector screen / list is shown with titles not properly recognizable. You should always properly name your files (the entire title etc.) so that the right metadata is inserted into it. The second video is properly named and will be correctly tagged.

After this, click the “Start” button in the lower right corner and the videos are tagged (and, if they're MKV's like in this example, also remuxed to M4V's.).

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata7.jpeg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/012013/20SublerMetadata/Subler-autometadata7.png)

Then, the videos will be re-saved, with metadata in them, in this case (see the “Default location” drop-down list at the bottom right) in the source video directory.

dynaflash
Jan 20, 2013, 02:55 PM
Nice tutorial, I might add that instead of using the file menu in subler to get the metadata you can just click on the Search icon in the upper right. Does the same thing.

thegluchow
Mar 25, 2013, 11:39 AM
Hi,
Amateur question I am sure.
I'm using ivi and sometimes iFlicks (for the 640 AC3) to convert from MKV to m4v to use on my atv's.
I also take these MKV's and just convert them to mp4 for use on the PS3. However, when I use mp4tools, it always gives me a m4v output, not a mp4 (I'm usually using pass-through for video and ac3 640 kb/s for audio). (no additional 2-channel added).
I then have to go to subler and rerun it as a 'movie' to get the mp4 extension (to which the PS3 will read off of my NAS (DNS-325)).
Am i missing something here completely? I tried just changing the extension on the m4v to mp4 and the PS3 won't read it, nor read m4v as well.
Thanks for any help on this.

pmcdunnough
Mar 25, 2013, 04:10 PM
Hi,
Amateur question I am sure.
I'm using ivi and sometimes iFlicks (for the 640 AC3) to convert from MKV to m4v to use on my atv's.
I also take these MKV's and just convert them to mp4 for use on the PS3. However, when I use mp4tools, it always gives me a m4v output, not a mp4 (I'm usually using pass-through for video and ac3 640 kb/s for audio). (no additional 2-channel added).
I then have to go to subler and rerun it as a 'movie' to get the mp4 extension (to which the PS3 will read off of my NAS (DNS-325)).
Am i missing something here completely? I tried just changing the extension on the m4v to mp4 and the PS3 won't read it, nor read m4v as well.
Thanks for any help on this.

You only need to do this once. Use iFlicks, iVI or Subler to get your m4v ( same thing as an mp4 - just rename if the PS3 wants that) for the ATV. The same files will work for both devices. You can keep an mp4 folder of files. When adding to iTunes don't copy them to the iTunes folder.

Philip

pmcdunnough
Mar 25, 2013, 04:38 PM
Why stick with iFlicks when there're much better (faster) alternatives around, even for free?

Well at some point iFlicks will have watched folders built in. For now you can make it work, but it's a bit of a pain. That is a big reason for using iVI or iFlicks. You can automate everything. Also, iFlicks has the neat ability to take xvid files and turn them into mp4 iTunes files with no reencoding of the video stream. It works remarkably well.

The faster claims that you have made are for very specific files. A simple mkv file with one video and one AC3 audio stream will remux in iVI and especially iFlicks almost as fast as with the excellent free Subler (with no automation capabilities). Your data is interesting but unless you have subs, multiple audio and such the lack of automation with Subler is a feature that many would miss. Moreover, iVI is pretty darned simple to use.

Philip

hagar
May 8, 2013, 03:12 PM
I can't believe VideoDrive has not been mentioned earlier. It's a great tool for batch processing. It also uses HandBrake (the newest engine) for conversions, so it combines the speed and efficiency of HandBrake with the possibility to automatically watch new files in a folder, download metadata and hand them over to iTunes.

As soon as I download or copy a new video, VideoDrive detects it, does its thing and next I have a compatible video in iTunes. No fuss. I'm very happy with it. I also own iFlicks, but VideoDrive wins hands down with the automatic folder watching and batch processing features. I'm thinking of buying a Mac mini as a media server, and this tool would be ideal as you can set and forget it. You can download it at their site: www.aroona.net.

Some negative points: finding metadata sometimes misidentifies a file and while conversions are very fast, finding the metadata can be a bit slow.

Menneisyys2
May 8, 2013, 03:29 PM
I can't believe VideoDrive has not been mentioned earlier. It's a great tool for batch processing. It also uses HandBrake (the newest engine) for conversions, so it combines the speed and efficiency of HandBrake with the possibility to automatically watch new files in a folder, download metadata and hand them over to iTunes.

As soon as I download or copy a new video, VideoDrive detects it, does its thing and next I have a compatible video in iTunes. No fuss. I'm very happy with it. I also own iFlicks, but VideoDrive wins hands down with the automatic folder watching and batch processing features. I'm thinking of buying a Mac mini as a media server, and this tool would be ideal as you can set and forget it. You can download it at their site: www.aroona.net.

Some negative points: finding metadata sometimes misidentifies a file and while conversions are very fast, finding the metadata can be a bit slow.

Thanks for the heads-up; will definitely test and review it.

pmcdunnough
May 8, 2013, 07:22 PM
VideoDrive is very nice. Have used it for ages. However, they hadn't implemented remuxing and so I switched to iVi and iFlicks. There was talk of them supporting remuxing so perhaps it's now there?

philip

Sparky9292
Jul 22, 2013, 10:22 PM
I have not tried VideoDrive, but I really like iVI Pro. I used to do MP4Tools/Identify2 to convert MKV to MP4 and tags. However Identify2 has been problematic at tagging and pulling down TV tag information.

iVI Pro(http://www.southpolesoftware.com/iVI/iVI.php) seems to really be smooth at the whole process. It supports pass-thru which is good since 90% of all MKV's are already in 264 format. The tagging is flawless.

DJTaurus
Aug 15, 2013, 04:14 AM
delete post

ZeRoLiMiT
Aug 15, 2013, 01:49 PM
Handbrake + iFlicks here also! amazing!!!!

works very well especially with the new 3D Movies that are coming out you can edit the Video Cover with 3D Artwork

CrazyNurse
Nov 2, 2013, 12:49 PM
I want to attach a hard drive w/kids movies to my blu-ray player.

ALL my DVDs/BDs (>500) have been archived in a drive array in ISO format, so region free, unprotected, etc via slysoft.

I just tried Handbrake converting down to MP4 and it took forever on a Wintel 7 notebook. It took longer than the original ClownBD rip! I liked the file size reduction but the process took several hours.

I want MP4, to share the movies with the family iDevices.

There's got to be something better for converting ISO to MP4s. :(

lunaoso
Nov 2, 2013, 02:21 PM
I want to attach a hard drive w/kids movies to my blu-ray player.

ALL my DVDs/BDs (>500) have been archived in a drive array in ISO format, so region free, unprotected, etc via slysoft.

I just tried Handbrake converting down to MP4 and it took forever on a Wintel 7 notebook. It took longer than the original ClownBD rip! I liked the file size reduction but the process took several hours.

I want MP4, to share the movies with the family iDevices.

There's got to be something better for converting ISO to MP4s. :(

It's almost definitely the laptop, not the program. Encoding is a processor intensive task, it's a long process but worth it in the end IMO.

slothrob
Nov 3, 2013, 05:43 AM
I just tried Handbrake converting down to MP4 and it took forever on a Wintel 7 notebook.
The trick is not to watch the movies transcode in Handbreak. Start a cue of a few movies, then go to sleep or go to work.

It will take you 5 minutes or less of your time to set up the cue and the rest of the time it takes to transcode will be be computer time, not your time. Make it a daily ritual and you'll be done before you know it.

priitv8
Nov 3, 2013, 05:46 AM
My 2.7GHz QC i7 chews through blu-ray rips almost in real time: a 2h movie takes 2h to compress.
Previous 2.4GHz DC C2D required 5x the amount (10h avg to convert a 2h movie).
Thus I had to use Elgato Turbo.264 HD hardware encoder to speed up the process.

CrazyNurse
Nov 3, 2013, 07:50 AM
My 2.7GHz QC i7 chews through blu-ray rips almost in real time: a 2h movie takes 2h to compress.
Previous 2.4GHz DC C2D required 5x the amount (10h avg to convert a 2h movie).
Thus I had to use Elgato Turbo.264 HD hardware encoder to speed up the process.

Cool, I'm gonna look into a hardware solution.