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cappers
Apr 19, 2012, 06:50 AM
Has anyone ever run their Apple TV through a Stereo Amp from the optical out, either direct into the amp or via a DAC, and does it work?
If not, anyone found a work round?



smp99
Apr 19, 2012, 06:58 AM
That works for me

HDMI to TV, optical to receiver

EmpyreanUK
Apr 19, 2012, 08:05 AM
I also have this setup. I have my ATV 2 plugged into my TV via HDMI and into my stereo amp via optical. The first is for TV programmes and films, the second for music.

davidoloan
Apr 19, 2012, 02:56 PM
Works perfectly for me too.

But I use HDMI from Apple TV to TV....

then optical to DAC.....

then DAC to Stereo Amp.

This way you get better sound from your TV as well.

----------

Powered speakers also work and mean you have one less box.

topcatismyboat
Apr 19, 2012, 06:07 PM
Just hooked up my atv3 to my Denon AVR-1912 using HDMI only no optical,
the Dolby Surround 5.1 sounds great no real need for optical as far as I can hear. I was worried that this might not work because the atv2 didnt. The so called experts at Mac Warehouse said I needed the optical. but the new aptv3 works great with the HDMI only.
I have had a fun time with the Denon AVR using AirPlay with my iPad & iPhone
The Denon sounds great and works fine for my switcher for Blueray and my other accessories.
Other fun stuff is to mirror your iPad or Phone to your bigscreen using atv3
try turning on the camera and point it to the TV. you soon will falling down the rabbit hole.
Have Fun,
Topcat

Roy G Biv
Apr 19, 2012, 06:20 PM
http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-D3-Digital-Converter-Optical/dp/B005K2TXMO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1334877384&sr=8-3

This should work well. I don't own it, but Darkplanets loves the heck out of it--said it's the best thing he's bought to go along with this ATV.

T5BRICK
Apr 20, 2012, 12:08 AM
I also have this setup. I have my ATV 2 plugged into my TV via HDMI and into my stereo amp via optical. The first is for TV programmes and films, the second for music.

Exactly how I have mine setup, except the TV also outputs to the receiver via optical. I've tried switching between the two and can't tell a difference in quality.

steve-p
Apr 20, 2012, 03:45 AM
Just hooked up my atv3 to my Denon AVR-1912 using HDMI only no optical,
the Dolby Surround 5.1 sounds great no real need for optical as far as I can hear. I was worried that this might not work because the atv2 didnt. The so called experts at Mac Warehouse said I needed the optical. but the new aptv3 works great with the HDMI only.

Actually 5.1 over HDMI did work fine with ATV2. I was already doing it that way with my current AVR months before I got ATV3. I don't use optical or coaxial for anything anymore. All my sources are HDMI only including 5.1 audio which makes cabling and setup simple. There is no difference in audio quality. HDMI is the future for multichannel audio because it can carry much more bandwidth than optical or coaxial could so supports more channels and higher bitrates and sample sizes.

EmpyreanUK
Apr 20, 2012, 05:01 AM
Exactly how I have mine setup, except the TV also outputs to the receiver via optical. I've tried switching between the two and can't tell a difference in quality.
I do exactly the same thing! My amp doesn't have any HDMI ports, and if I have the ATV2 display the picture on the TV via HDMI and output the audio to the amp via optical, the two are not in sync (I guess due to HDMI signals taking longer to process, as I think the ATV outputs audio as LCPM over optical). So, like T5BRICK, when I want to watch a film and have the audio played by my amp, the chain goes ATV - (HDMI) - TV - (TOSLINK) - amp.

davidoloan
Apr 20, 2012, 06:09 PM
Just out of interest what stereo amps are you all using with digital inputs?

They seem pretty rare to me other than a few Denon's.

I have to use an external DAC to be able to use the stereo amp I like.

Saw this review to day for speakers with optical / usb inputs, with internal stereo amplifier and internally amplified wireless speakers with internal DAC. http://www.whathifi.com/review/dynaudio-xeo-3

This is what I would like to get to someday ..... Apple TV > HDMI > TV > Optical (or other digital) > Wireless Speakers.

I think this area is going to see a lot of interesting products over the next few years.

BasilFawlty
Apr 20, 2012, 06:25 PM
Just hooked up my atv3 to my Denon AVR-1912 using HDMI only no optical,
the Dolby Surround 5.1 sounds great no real need for optical as far as I can hear. I was worried that this might not work because the atv2 didnt. The so called experts at Mac Warehouse said I needed the optical. but the new aptv3 works great with the HDMI only.
I have had a fun time with the Denon AVR using AirPlay with my iPad & iPhone
The Denon sounds great and works fine for my switcher for Blueray and my other accessories.
Other fun stuff is to mirror your iPad or Phone to your bigscreen using atv3
try turning on the camera and point it to the TV. you soon will falling down the rabbit hole.
Have Fun,
Topcat

I just bought a Denon AVR-1912 from Crutchfield. I've only had it a couple of days and love it so far! Good to know the ATV3 will hook up direct to the Receiver. I have an ATV2 in my study hooked to my smaller Sony Bravia, but I was planning to get an ATV3 for the new Denon and Sony XBR 929 TV I just bought.

T5BRICK
Apr 20, 2012, 06:27 PM
Just out of interest what stereo amps are you all using with digital inputs?

I've got a Harman/Kardon AVR210 I bought about 12 years ago, it's got optical and coax digital inputs. My parents have a Sony receiver from about the same time period with optical.

I didn't think they were rare, but I haven't shopped around for a long time.

davidoloan
Apr 20, 2012, 07:44 PM
I've got a Harman/Kardon AVR210 I bought about 12 years ago, it's got optical and coax digital inputs. My parents have a Sony receiver from about the same time period with optical.

I didn't think they were rare, but I haven't shopped around for a long time.

Are those not home theatre receivers rather than dedicated stereo amps for music?

Maybe you are right, but I didn't come across many stereo amps with optical. I think its only now that music based systems NEED a digital input. I am using a music based stereo amp with my Apple TV and TV as I like music quality and it works well with Movies and TV without having to switch inputs etc.

T5BRICK
Apr 20, 2012, 08:06 PM
Are those not home theatre receivers rather than dedicated stereo amps for music?

You're correct, those are just home theater receivers, I've never really shopped around for dedicated stereo amps. Anyway, I've always had my stereo near my TV and limited space, so the home theater receivers always made the most sense.

steve-p
Apr 21, 2012, 04:03 AM
I guess with the explosion of big TVs and 5.1 in the home many people don't have the space for a dedicated 2.0 system too so AVRs are kind of taking over in the living room. I had both for a long time, but after remodelling, decided to use the 5.1 system for music too, and using left/right front speakers only plus the sub makes a pretty decent job of it. Modern AVRs have various modes for 2.0 sources but that one I like. It would also be possible to drive existing L/R stereo speakers instead for music, either as the only speakers, or in conjunction with the sub and rear speakers as part of a 5.1 system. Modern AVRs have a calibration mic to automatically balance up the sound for 5.1 so it's no longer necessary to have everything matching. So there are lots of options for 2.0, even with AVRs. I agree that it's long past time that stereo amps had multiple digital inputs and onboard DAC though. I can't really see why none seem to offer that. A friend had a Technics amp 20 years ago that did, but it was phased out.

davidoloan
Apr 21, 2012, 04:42 PM
I agree that it's long past time that stereo amps had multiple digital inputs and onboard DAC though.

It is starting now. Denon make a few, several companies are starting to make powered stereo speakers with digital inputs and internal dac and products like the Zepplein Air have an internal dac and a gigabit ethernet port.

It seems most people go the 5.1 route you did and it also seems that companies are working towards making them music friendly too. Much more so than 5 years ago.

lifeinabox
Apr 22, 2012, 11:58 AM
I run my ATV2 through my Rega DAC to my rega setup. Used to have a dedicated 5.1 system but the receivers I went through (Rotel, Arcam, etc) could never do 2-channel justice.

EmpyreanUK
Apr 23, 2012, 03:30 AM
Just out of interest what stereo amps are you all using with digital inputs?

I have a Harman Kardon 3490, which is a true stereo amp with an internal DAC. I have no interest in surround sound, and so decided to go for a stereo amp instead of spending the same (or more) money on a 5.1 AV receiver that I didn't want, and which would likely produce an inferior sound. When I came to make my purchase, I spent a lot of time researching to try to find something that fitted my requirements, and I seem to remember that the HK 3490 was the only unit I could find that did so.

It's a fantastic amp, with the only drawback being that it only has one optical digital and one coaxial optical port. I don't have anything that uses coax outputs, but have an ATV2 and a TV that both make use of optical. I bought an optical switch to remedy this, which is inexpensive but is really quite big and ugly. I'm able to hide it behind my TV whilst still having it easily reachable to select the input, so it's not too bad.

cappers
Apr 23, 2012, 06:21 AM
[QUOTE=EmpyreanUK;14761659]I bought an optical switch to remedy this, which is inexpensive but is really quite big and ugly.
QUOTE]

By that do you mean a small optical to analogue converter box, ie Optical to RCA leads or similar?

davidoloan
Apr 23, 2012, 07:15 AM
I don't have anything that uses coax outputs, but have an ATV2 and a TV that both make use of optical. I bought an optical switch to remedy this, which is inexpensive but is really quite big and ugly. I'm able to hide it behind my TV whilst still having it easily reachable to select the input, so it's not too bad.

Why not just run the hdmi from the apple tv into the TV and the optical from the TV into the Amp?

The HDMI will carry the audio to the TV and the TV will pass it on.

EmpyreanUK
Apr 23, 2012, 08:21 AM
Why not just run the hdmi from the apple tv into the TV and the optical from the TV into the Amp?

The HDMI will carry the audio to the TV and the TV will pass it on.

This does indeed work when watching films/TV programmes with the sound outputted through the stereo amp, but when I'm listening to music I prefer to keep the TV out of the equation.

By that do you mean a small optical to analogue converter box, ie Optical to RCA leads or similar?
It doesn't touch the signals, but is instead a (plastic) unit with a number of optical digital inputs, and one optical digital output. Depending on which source I want outputted into my stereo amp's sole TOSLINK input, I use a control on the switch to select the relevant input.

cappers
Apr 23, 2012, 08:56 AM
Ah ok, my amp does not have any digital in

fred.bloggs
Apr 23, 2012, 11:58 AM
Has anyone ever run their Apple TV through a Stereo Amp from the optical out, either direct into the amp or via a DAC, and does it work?
If not, anyone found a work round?

This works a treat with my Sony amp.

I use have mine configured with two input selections using the same optical input. One for films, this has a 90ms delay to match the processing delay of my TV. The other has zero delay to ensure that the sound is in sync with other air play devices.

thegluchow
Apr 23, 2012, 12:09 PM
I run an HDMI to the TV and from the TV I run Stereo L-R jacks to the back of my Onkyo Stereo Receiver.
I bought the receiver specifically for 2.0 channel and it's not used as my main 'theatre' television. I wanted it more for music and to enhance regular TV and movie watching for the kids.

cappers
Apr 23, 2012, 12:44 PM
Why not just run the hdmi from the apple tv into the TV and the optical from the TV into the Amp?

The HDMI will carry the audio to the TV and the TV will pass it on.

I have tried this but makes no difference. I assume whatever is input into the TV from ATV flows through the optical out. Does not seem to change the signal and the same problem occurs. The DAC just wants a stereo signal I think to work properly

Jetson
Apr 23, 2012, 03:12 PM
.

rhett7660
Apr 23, 2012, 03:22 PM
Running a Pioneer Elite VSX-03 with one hdmi cable coming from my receiver to the TV with blu-ray/apple tv/xbox connected to my receiver via hdmi. No complaints what so ever.

davidoloan
Apr 23, 2012, 06:58 PM
I assume whatever is input into the TV from ATV flows through the optical out.

Yes

Does not seem to change the signal and the same problem occurs. The DAC just wants a stereo signal I think to work properly

This should be working for you. What is the model of your DAC?

And what problem do you have? Does the DAC output any analogue signal to your Amp?

cappers
Apr 25, 2012, 07:30 AM
Yes



This should be working for you. What is the model of your DAC?

And what problem do you have? Does the DAC output any analogue signal to your Amp?

the DAc is a Cyrus DACX.
The Dac takes the Optical in from the ATV, and Analogues it out to my Amp via L and R (RCA) Cables.
Problem I think uis that my DAC only really likes a stereo in, and cant cope with anything else. Even though the DAC can take 48 khz signal, I suspect it does not like something the ATV is doing

dj4hill
Jun 23, 2012, 01:00 PM
I also have this setup. I have my ATV 2 plugged into my TV via HDMI and into my stereo amp via optical. The first is for TV programmes and films, the second for music.

I have been reading lots of the past few days and I cannot seem to find what is the best answer to my question, from your post I think you know, so here goes!

I want to have an ATV3 on my roof / balcony. Most of the time it will be a headless streaming device for music, controlled by iPhone remote app. However, occasionally it will be hooked up to a micro portable projector. Now comes the question, how best to manage the sound.

In all case when video is required, it will be HDMI to the projector.

However, for audio, as I understand, my options are;

1) Optical to a amp that can accept the signal (all in once device such as the http://www.amazon.com/Kanto-YARO-Home-Theatre-System/dp/B006PH6LO6/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1340381667&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=kanto+yaro+amp will probably win out here).
2) Optical to analog audio converter http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-D3-Digita...4877384&sr=8-3 then any small amp onto speakers.

Pricewise they come out similar, but I am sure the quality could be better with option 2. The problem is I am worried about the video and audio not being in sync. This was mentioned on this thread as well.

The micro projector only has a 3.5 output jack, so sending the audio onwards to the amp via this method when I want to watch video is not a good option. Anyone know the best solution?

EmpyreanUK
Jun 24, 2012, 01:10 PM
I have been reading lots of the past few days and I cannot seem to find what is the best answer to my question, from your post I think you know, so here goes!

I want to have an ATV3 on my roof / balcony. Most of the time it will be a headless streaming device for music, controlled by iPhone remote app. However, occasionally it will be hooked up to a micro portable projector. Now comes the question, how best to manage the sound.

In all case when video is required, it will be HDMI to the projector.

However, for audio, as I understand, my options are;

1) Optical to a amp that can accept the signal (all in once device such as the http://www.amazon.com/Kanto-YARO-Home-Theatre-System/dp/B006PH6LO6/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1340381667&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=kanto+yaro+amp will probably win out here).
2) Optical to analog audio converter http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-D3-Digita...4877384&sr=8-3 then any small amp onto speakers.

Pricewise they come out similar, but I am sure the quality could be better with option 2. The problem is I am worried about the video and audio not being in sync. This was mentioned on this thread as well.

The micro projector only has a 3.5 output jack, so sending the audio onwards to the amp via this method when I want to watch video is not a good option. Anyone know the best solution?

When I click the link to the optical to analogue converter (something which is often referred to as a DAC) I get a 404 page, so I don't know which particular unit you're thinking of getting, but it is debatable as to which setup would yield the best quality.

A dedicated, standalone DAC is likely to be of a higher quality than one you would find in a comparatively priced amp. Yet any improvement in sound quality, which would anyway probably be slight, could end up being lost over the analogue pathway from the DAC to the amp, especially if the amplifier itself is cheaper.

I'm by absolutely no means an expert in this, but my understanding is that it's generally agreed to keep the signal in a digital format for as much of the 'chain' to the speakers as possible. As long as the equipment is functioning properly, a digital signal should suffer no degradation at all as it moves along the various cables and devices in your audio set-up *the information is, after all, represented as digits, and a one or a zero will either arrive at its destination or it will not. Analogue signals can suffer from such degradation.

Therefore, it's probably better to opt for the amp with an integrated DAC, as the signal will remain digital for longer, and you also have the advantage of removing an extra device, and thus an extra layer of complication, from your setup.

Having said all of this, whether you'd actually be able to tell any difference in quality whilst listening to the music outside seems doubtful to me. Factors out of your control, such as traffic, wind and hopefully the clinking of wine and beer glasses will have a far greater effect on the sound quality of your music than an extra metre of analogue audio cable. It would therefore again seem more sensible to opt for the simple option: less wires and less things that could potentially break.

The audio/video sync issue seems more problematic to me. If you have video going from the Apple TV to your projector via HDMI, and audio going separately to your DAC/amplifier via optical, then they will be out of sync to a degree I expect you would be likely to notice. This is because, when converting a digital signal to an analogue one (be it audio or video), an element of processing must take place to decode the digital signal and then to convert it to an analogue format. Your projector, decoding the video signal, and your amp, processing the audio, would probably perform these computations at differing speeds, thus introducing the asynchronicity between the two.

I can see two solutions to this problem. One would be to simply use the 3.5mm jack, which you've rightly mentioned is not ideal. I have absolutely no idea how much of difference to the quality of audio outdoors it would make, though, as I live in England where it is almost constantly raining and hardly ever warm enough to warrant sitting outside. I suppose it would depend on how good your hearing is and how critical a listener you are.

The second solution would be to purchase an AV receiver instead of an amp. In such a setup, you would connect your Apple TV to the receiver via HDMI only; the receiver would output audio to the speakers whenever you were listening to music or watching a movie, and it would output video to your projector via HDMI when doing the latter. As the decoding of both audio and video is being performed by the same unit, there should be no issue of audio-video lag.

Generally speaking, if an AV receiver and a dedicate amplifier are the same price, you could expect the latter to produce superior audio. Yet I remain sceptical that the difference would actually be discernible outdoors. And regardless, a minor difference in audio quality, even if you were able to notice it, is going to be endlessly preferable to out-of-sync audio and video.

dj4hill
Jun 24, 2012, 04:59 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply.

The Kanto looks better and better, it might not be the best sound around, but it looks to solve the potential problems.

here is the other link that i made a mistake with:
http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Digital-Converter-Micca-Optical/dp/B005K2TXMO

the AV receiver looks good as well.

If I could find a small unit with preferable not too many extras but nice sound, it may be a good option.

Thanks again,

dj4hill
Jun 24, 2012, 05:31 PM
Hmm,
Here the NuForece Dia amp even provides a diagram showing most of what i want to do, suggesting lag is not a big problem?

http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/dia/index.php

I have emailed NuForce to see what they say.

EmpyreanUK
Jun 25, 2012, 07:57 AM
Hmm,
Here the NuForece Dia amp even provides a diagram showing most of what i want to do, suggesting lag is not a big problem?

http://www.nuforce.com/hp/products/dia/index.php

I have emailed NuForce to see what they say.

The product you're linking to only handles audio, so you'd still need to connect the Apple TV to your projector and to this unit independently, meaning that you're still liable to get out-of-sync audio and video.

dj4hill
Jun 25, 2012, 10:50 AM
The product you're linking to only handles audio, so you'd still need to connect the Apple TV to your projector and to this unit independently, meaning that you're still liable to get out-of-sync audio and video.

Thanks, yes, i suppose what is mean is NuForce specifialy markets the use of an ATV in the fashion i want (even in a diagram) so it will be interesting to see how they respond to the question of lag.