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Oblivion2500
Apr 25, 2012, 03:32 PM
Is there going to be more features coming to Mountain Lion before it comes out? All I see is a few new softwares and iCloud+Twitter support. (about 20 new features).



Mattie Num Nums
Apr 25, 2012, 03:47 PM
I hope so. Most of the things they have added on just means more boxes to uncheck after I install the OS.

throAU
Apr 26, 2012, 01:34 AM
I expect some sort of filesystem announcement. Lion included core storage, Mountain Lion is due to do something to fix/replace HFS imho.

Given the ZFS files found in iOS recently, i hope it is ZFS related :)

McKs
Apr 26, 2012, 01:24 PM
I expect some sort of filesystem announcement. Lion included core storage, Mountain Lion is due to do something to fix/replace HFS imho.

Given the ZFS files found in iOS recently, i hope it is ZFS related :)

no chance of that, imo. That needs loads of testing and would've shown in the dp builds by now.

Cougarcat
Apr 26, 2012, 02:05 PM
no chance of that, imo. That needs loads of testing and would've shown in the dp builds by now.

Indeed, and it won't be ZFS when they do revise the FS.

afin
Apr 26, 2012, 02:19 PM
I expect some sort of filesystem announcement. Lion included core storage, Mountain Lion is due to do something to fix/replace HFS imho.

Given the ZFS files found in iOS recently, i hope it is ZFS related :)

I have hopes for the next the next version after ML, but doubt it will be zfs.

throAU
Apr 26, 2012, 07:38 PM
no chance of that, imo. That needs loads of testing and would've shown in the dp builds by now.

You're probably right but i still hope.

ZFS has been tested in both Solaris and FreeBSD for about 10 years now, the filesystem itself is stable, and the code is in IOS.

My thinking was that with the recent Intel chipsets that can use flash as hard drive cache, ZFS would be ideal as it has built in support for caching to SSD.

blow45
Apr 26, 2012, 07:57 PM
Is there going to be more features coming to Mountain Lion before it comes out? All I see is a few new softwares and iCloud+Twitter support. (about 20 new features).

I hope not, I hope they start working on on refining the code and fixing the many issues of lion. Lion is broken, safari memory leaks, preview crashes, smb shares work poorly, page in and outs happen frequently for no reason, memory takes too long to be released, and it seems apple has stop putting due care in making a robust and reliable os, the last one being sl, and just started slapping one flashy feature on top of the other. No wonder almost all the pros have not switched to lion. Like I said lion is broken and it's sad to see mountain lion rushed to the market to meet windows 8 without its predecesors problems being adressed.

MattInOz
Apr 27, 2012, 12:53 AM
Yes,
from Daring Fireball's (http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion) Mountain Lion Briefing.

There are many new features, I’m told, but today they’re going to focus on telling me about ten of them.

Not mention feature 11 made public by the LLVM team.

blow45
Apr 27, 2012, 05:53 AM
“We’re starting to do some things differently,” Phil Schiller said to me.

We were sitting in a comfortable hotel suite in Manhattan just over a week ago. I’d been summoned a few days earlier by Apple PR with the offer of a private “product briefing”. I had no idea heading into the meeting what it was about. I had no idea how it would be conducted. This was new territory for me, and I think, for Apple.

Gruber's arch kissing and his sense importance about apple is pathetic, you think he's about to be debriefed by mi5 and sent to Lagos to hunt for counter spies for drugs and arms smuggling. What an absolute tool.

Knara
Apr 27, 2012, 12:24 PM
He probably isn't. In fact, I don't really like Lion at all, I also have bashed it constantly (and even set up a blog just to highlight all its faults). But I still love Apple; that is not going to change. Just he doesn't like something and his reasons aren't compelling doesn't mean he is paid by someone.

For me, Lion is akin to Vista. After a few service packs, it runs well enough, but it wasn't as well ironed as XP was when it came to everyday usage.

Hopefully MT will be to OS X as Win7 is to MS Windows.

bogatyr
Apr 27, 2012, 12:53 PM
For me, Lion is akin to Vista. After a few service packs, it runs well enough, but it wasn't as well ironed as XP was when it came to everyday usage.

Hopefully MT will be to OS X as Win7 is to MS Windows.

I dunno. I haven't had any issues with Lion. Then again, I never had issues with WinME or Vista.

Knara
Apr 27, 2012, 01:00 PM
I dunno. I haven't had any issues with Lion. Then again, I never had issues with WinME or Vista.

My main notice with Lion is that it seems to handle being up for long periods of time less well than SL did. If I have it up for 7 days or so I'll get interface "lags" every 20 minutes or so until I reboot. Also kernel_task was less greedy.

bogatyr
Apr 27, 2012, 02:08 PM
My main notice with Lion is that it seems to handle being up for long periods of time less well than SL did. If I have it up for 7 days or so I'll get interface "lags" every 20 minutes or so until I reboot. Also kernel_task was less greedy.

I have lag issues with my work MBA after a few days but not my personal MBA. The main difference between the two is the software, work MBA has Microsoft Office and VMWare Fusion (running Win7) while my personal one has neither Office nor VMWare Fusion. A reboot fixes the slowdown as you said.

blow45
Apr 27, 2012, 04:22 PM
Sorry about consecutive post, thought it would add it automagically.

My main notice with Lion is that it seems to handle being up for long periods of time less well than SL did. If I have it up for 7 days or so I'll get interface "lags" every 20 minutes or so until I reboot. Also kernel_task was less greedy.

Kernel task seems much more greedy, and living your Mac on without a restart is a thing of the past now (we used to brag about it to our windows using friends). These are all evidence of sloppy code optimization for the internals of the os. It's very apparent to some of us that apple hasn't simply done the work they had to do with lion's backbone, maintenance and improvement. To them this is not a big deal since by obsoleting old macs and making new macs not anything special in terms of performance, especially lowered specked ones people will need to buy more soon.

The new intel CPUs, the i series are truly incredibly engineered equipment, that run circles around even their 2-3 year old counterparts. Yet this increase in power is simply not reflected in the os anymore. Its hard to believe a new Mac, such as the mid range mini I bought a month ago, would be so laggy with word excel safari, chrome and preview running and all with few documents and the browsers with 8-9 tabs. Especially browsing on os x even with flash blocked is unreliable that it should be such a mediocre experience in this day and age.

I have legacy hp windoze xp with pentiums from 8 years ago or so and chrome there opens one tab after the other like a breeze yet it stutters on lion, and ok say chrome is google, safari seems even worse.

It's a shame though to see that were sl breathed new life in older leopard macs by optimizing them lion is doing the opposite. I don't know of anyone in my community of Mac users who would suggest in all good conscience that anyone with a pre 2010 Mac switch to lion.

It's not a small thing to develop and maintoan an os, it's probably one of the more complex tasks a team could be engaged with, and when proper development doesn't take place it shows. It's crystal clear to me that apple isn't putting enough resources in os x. The same team that did only os x has been split into ios and os x for the past few years and is has taken its toll on os x.
Apparently also as apple likes to have small teams in their development their spreading out in other projects such as iTunes and store, iBooks author, iCloud, Xcode course etc. etc. hasn't helped either.

When sl leopard focused only on code rewriting and optimization, the team was effective, and sl was a better leopard. In lion the focus expanded to include ui enhancements, some of them not so well thought out btw, and certainly not well implemented. I think this shift of focus didn't allow for enough development and maintenance, and you can certainly tell.

Apple has grown very, very large and spread out in many software endeavours and they have been using pretty much the same resources for this development.
Lion might seem pretty good, or even great on a latest Mac with what are insane hardware advances (compared to 3 years ago say) in chip technology, ssd speeds, memory speeds ect, yet the software hasn't come close to matching the engineering of the hardware.

My PowerBook g4 handled the word, excel, safari, preview scenario at 1.25 gbs of ram, with hardware that was one could say close to 6-8 times worse, it's inconceivable how a i-core 4gb ram mini doesn't simply fly. And I challenge anyone to put windows xp, or 7 on an older say circa 2006-2007 Mac and report to me cross their hearts which os is the faster one, and this comes from someone who's been one of the people most against ms. The irony in that is that this hasn't come with any real advancements in core features such as the file system say or resolution independence.

I would comprehend how a zfs os x might be showing an older macs age, but on a newer Mac it offered the benefits of a modern os. When your hardware manufactures are reaching dizzying heights with lighting fast ssds (that you take ages to support by proper trim support), CPUs that are amazing, and memories that fly and you can't get a team to bring some real core os software engineering advancements in ri or zfs in 7 years but you instead tout some half baked ios looking additons such as autosaves, auto kill off of apps, launchpads, windows restores, and (finally) a workable version of MobileMe that isn't pure crap as it was (not my idea, sj's and he said it on a keynote) with some additions (iTunes match, photo stream) and some substractions (keychain sync, iDisk - utter crap, but no Dropbox like feature to replace it) that to me speaks volumes about your os development. It's sad to see the hardware side of apples computers involving such great engineering work and what was one our pride and joy and apple's too, os x, involving so little great engineering work and technical innovation.

Sky Blue
Apr 28, 2012, 10:59 AM
Other than small refinements in further DPs and the GM, there will not be any more new features.

D-a-a-n
Apr 28, 2012, 12:56 PM
Sorry about consecutive post, thought it would add it automagically.



Kernel task seems much more greedy, and living your Mac on without a restart is a thing of the past now (we used to brag about it to our windows using friends). These are all evidence of sloppy code optimization for the internals of the os. It's very apparent to some of us that apple hasn't simply done the work they had to do with lion's backbone, maintenance and improvement. To them this is not a big deal since by obsoleting old macs and making new macs not anything special in terms of performance, especially lowered specked ones people will need to buy more soon.

The new intel CPUs, the i series are truly incredibly engineered equipment, that run circles around even their 2-3 year old counterparts. Yet this increase in power is simply not reflected in the os anymore. Its hard to believe a new Mac, such as the mid range mini I bought a month ago, would be so laggy with word excel safari, chrome and preview running and all with few documents and the browsers with 8-9 tabs. Especially browsing on os x even with flash blocked is unreliable that it should be such a mediocre experience in this day and age.

I have legacy hp windoze xp with pentiums from 8 years ago or so and chrome there opens one tab after the other like a breeze yet it stutters on lion, and ok say chrome is google, safari seems even worse.

It's a shame though to see that were sl breathed new life in older leopard macs by optimizing them lion is doing the opposite. I don't know of anyone in my community of Mac users who would suggest in all good conscience that anyone with a pre 2010 Mac switch to lion.

It's not a small thing to develop and maintoan an os, it's probably one of the more complex tasks a team could be engaged with, and when proper development doesn't take place it shows. It's crystal clear to me that apple isn't putting enough resources in os x. The same team that did only os x has been split into ios and os x for the past few years and is has taken its toll on os x.
Apparently also as apple likes to have small teams in their development their spreading out in other projects such as iTunes and store, iBooks author, iCloud, Xcode course etc. etc. hasn't helped either.

When sl leopard focused only on code rewriting and optimization, the team was effective, and sl was a better leopard. In lion the focus expanded to include ui enhancements, some of them not so well thought out btw, and certainly not well implemented. I think this shift of focus didn't allow for enough development and maintenance, and you can certainly tell.

Apple has grown very, very large and spread out in many software endeavours and they have been using pretty much the same resources for this development.
Lion might seem pretty good, or even great on a latest Mac with what are insane hardware advances (compared to 3 years ago say) in chip technology, ssd speeds, memory speeds ect, yet the software hasn't come close to matching the engineering of the hardware.

My PowerBook g4 handled the word, excel, safari, preview scenario at 1.25 gbs of ram, with hardware that was one could say close to 6-8 times worse, it's inconceivable how a i-core 4gb ram mini doesn't simply fly. And I challenge anyone to put windows xp, or 7 on an older say circa 2006-2007 Mac and report to me cross their hearts which os is the faster one, and this comes from someone who's been one of the people most against ms. The irony in that is that this hasn't come with any real advancements in core features such as the file system say or resolution independence.

I would comprehend how a zfs os x might be showing an older macs age, but on a newer Mac it offered the benefits of a modern os. When your hardware manufactures are reaching dizzying heights with lighting fast ssds (that you take ages to support by proper trim support), CPUs that are amazing, and memories that fly and you can't get a team to bring some real core os software engineering advancements in ri or zfs in 7 years but you instead tout some half baked ios looking additons such as autosaves, auto kill off of apps, launchpads, windows restores, and (finally) a workable version of MobileMe that isn't pure crap as it was (not my idea, sj's and he said it on a keynote) with some additions (iTunes match, photo stream) and some substractions (keychain sync, iDisk - utter crap, but no Dropbox like feature to replace it) that to me speaks volumes about your os development. It's sad to see the hardware side of apples computers involving such great engineering work and what was one our pride and joy and apple's too, os x, involving so little great engineering work and technical innovation.

My sentiments exactly!

What happened to the "stay hungry, stay foolish" spirit at apple? It has become an obese company sitting on a huge pile of money. Primarily investing it in their moneymakers (iDevices) to generate even more profit and ripping us all off. And with the rest of their budget, well, instead of spending it on true osx innovation and performance enhancements, they spend it on marketing bs and eye candy to fool average joe into buying a pricey mac...such a shame. RIP Apple.

Liquinn
Apr 28, 2012, 01:39 PM
My sentiments exactly!

What happened to the "stay hungry, stay foolish" spirit at apple? It has become an obese company sitting on a huge pile of money. Primarily investing it in their moneymakers (iDevices) to generate even more profit and ripping us all off. And with the rest of their budget, well, instead of spending it on true osx innovation and performance enhancements, they spend it on marketing bs and eye candy to fool average joe into buying a pricey mac...such a shame. RIP Apple.
I agree. I've always wanted a Macbook Pro and I will still buy one. RIP Apple :P :apple:

blow45
Apr 28, 2012, 07:50 PM
@daan amen brother.

I agree. I've always wanted a Macbook Pro and I will still buy one. RIP Apple :P :apple:

I am still going to buy one as well, that doesn't mean it's rip to the apple we knew. Apple became what it is because the core user base was selling its devices by word of mouth, sadly a lot of us simply cannot recommend apple anymore or not with the fervor we did at least. I certainly won't recommend a laptop by apple, if anyone's not onboard the platform already they can do their work just fine and at a considerably lower premium on a wintel device and the are some really good products out there. I wouldn't buy one, but for very different reasons, some due to attachment, some due to th ecosystem, some due to the unix core, some sentimental ones.

Sadly these are the forums and we are not close friends here to look back on these a few years along the line and remember what everyone was saying. I for once when 80% of the forum was saying what the hell is an iPad for that they simply don't get what a revolution the iPad will be for a number of different reasons I was pointing out. At this stage I foresee that apple in 4 or 5 years time will start its decline, maybe sooner. Of course I am not clairvoyant and it could well be that apple will just ride along just fine, because it also depends a lot on whether the other players will get their acts together.

They will already feel the wrath of the relevant authorities pretty soon a la Microsoft with their anticompetitive practices in iBooks, as they should because their actions have cost every consumer in the west dearly. They have one potential flop in the horizon in the apple tv (although I think their momentum will ensure that the apple tv won't be a flop right now). The iPhone won't keep having the allure it has and it will also face challenges in the near future. Their saving grave is of course China and this will help them along. ITunes is also starting to face challenges with spotify and amazon.

Of course some key people and talent is still there and they could very well wise up, we ll see about that. Also like I said the competition seems to be run mostly by vision less fat cat execs which is of help to apple. If hp can manage to buy such as great platform as palm and screw it with a premature release and poor development of the really good webos that means that they are run by incredibly inept people. If rim rush to the market a pointless playroom and are about to close because of that instead of focusing on their core strengths and then making a strategy that's not rushed that's helping apple too.

In any case apple's not what it used to be, and os x is a major letdown in its current stage, not because it's not a half good os with some great features (almost all past decisions), but because it's not a really good os anymore and hasn't developed into what we were hoping for. Some of you don't get that, esp. some of you touting half of apple's store in your sig. I wouldn't expect that you did get it.

ajvizzgamer101
Apr 29, 2012, 09:18 PM
I honestly believe during WWDC we will get a couple more features that makes iOS to OS X a seemless experience.

pdjudd
Apr 29, 2012, 11:17 PM
I honestly believe during WWDC we will get a couple more features that makes iOS to OS X a seemless experience.

Not that close to release - WWDC is in June, if they want to announce anything new, its going to be really minor. Major features just aren’t going to be implemented that close to when they should be finalizing things. It’s way too close to comfort. They might announce something already present that isn't well known to the public but it is not going to be anything big. Not enough time.

Any changes that they would make by then are going to be small tweaks or small but visual changes, but nothing major or groundbreaking. I think that at WWDC they will expand on things that we know the basics about and not much else. I just wouldn’t think they have the time to make big changes.

MrAndy1369
Apr 30, 2012, 12:00 AM
Just wondering this - how isn't OSX a good OS anymore? Sure, Lion may have been a disappointment to many, but it's still built on the foundation of SL/Leopard/Tiger, which were all good OSes.

MattInOz
Apr 30, 2012, 12:54 AM
Not that close to release - WWDC is in June, if they want to announce anything new, its going to be really minor. Major features just aren’t going to be implemented that close to when they should be finalizing things. It’s way too close to comfort. They might announce something already present that isn't well known to the public but it is not going to be anything big. Not enough time.

Any changes that they would make by then are going to be small tweaks or small but visual changes, but nothing major or groundbreaking. I think that at WWDC they will expand on things that we know the basics about and not much else. I just wouldn’t think they have the time to make big changes.

Well not unless they introduce a big new developer framework that is not likely to be even be used commercially for 6months. Something not required for compatibility with current applications but expected to incorporated over the next few OS releases. Something that would need a good solid developer introduction like at WWDC.

Yes anything they do would need to be either end of the scale so small not to matter to the developer or so big it'll take years to matter to the consumer. Which still leaves a lot of good possibilities.

mastedar
Apr 30, 2012, 04:08 AM
I hope not, I hope they start working on on refining the code and fixing the many issues of lion. Lion is broken, safari memory leaks, preview crashes, smb shares work poorly, page in and outs happen frequently for no reason, memory takes too long to be released, and it seems apple has stop putting due care in making a robust and reliable os, the last one being sl, and just started slapping one flashy feature on top of the other. No wonder almost all the pros have not switched to lion. Like I said lion is broken and it's sad to see mountain lion rushed to the market to meet windows 8 without its predecesors problems being adressed.

It's SLOW, no wait, it's SLOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW. Comparing to Windows it's like Millennium or first version of 98. If Appl€ don't change it's "different thinking" I just move back to linux.

ajvizzgamer101
Apr 30, 2012, 07:11 AM
Not that close to release - WWDC is in June, if they want to announce anything new, its going to be really minor. Major features just aren’t going to be implemented that close to when they should be finalizing things. It’s way too close to comfort. They might announce something already present that isn't well known to the public but it is not going to be anything big. Not enough time.

Any changes that they would make by then are going to be small tweaks or small but visual changes, but nothing major or groundbreaking. I think that at WWDC they will expand on things that we know the basics about and not much else. I just wouldn’t think they have the time to make big changes.

I'm talking like new iTunes, Facebook integration...ect

AdvocateUK
Apr 30, 2012, 07:25 AM
I'm sorry, I couldn't leave this thread without saying something.

Lion is NOT slow, it is NOT buggy, and it is NOT flaky.

I run Lion on a 2007 Mac Pro (2.66 quad core), a 15 inch 2009 MacBook Pro, a 2011 MacBook Air, and a 2010 MacBook Pro. None of these machines run any slower than they did under Snow Leopard.

To say that Apple has dropped the ball with Lion is disingenuous at best, and at worst is mere trolling.

That's all I have to say about that.

pdjudd
Apr 30, 2012, 07:57 AM
I'm talking like new iTunes, Facebook integration...ect

I doubt that stuff like that is comming - Certainly not iTunes, they don't update that as part of the OS - thats a separate product from the OS.

Facebook is also a no, but that would be more due to legal limitations than anything - if it hasn't been included by now, it just won't be. The only changes that we would see at most are going to be more visual tweaks and not functional.

klaxamazoo
Apr 30, 2012, 07:58 AM
I'm sorry, I couldn't leave this thread without saying something.

Lion is NOT slow, it is NOT buggy, and it is NOT flaky.

I run Lion on a 2007 Mac Pro (2.66 quad core), a 15 inch 2009 MacBook Pro, a 2011 MacBook Air, and a 2010 MacBook Pro. None of these machines run any slower than they did under Snow Leopard.

To say that Apple has dropped the ball with Lion is disingenuous at best, and at worst is mere trolling.

That's all I have to say about that.


Lion IS slow. Drag-and-drop animation is extremely laggy. That is a simple animation and should not be laggy at all, yet it is. Lion also consumes more resources, doesn't release inactive memory properly, Mission Control mini-view at the top doesn't always refresh properly, etc.

Just because you don't notice the change from Snow Leopard to Lion doesn't mean other people don't.

JuicyJones
Apr 30, 2012, 10:10 AM
Lion IS slow. Drag-and-drop animation is extremely laggy. That is a simple animation and should not be laggy at all, yet it is. Lion also consumes more resources, doesn't release inactive memory properly, Mission Control mini-view at the top doesn't always refresh properly, etc.

Just because you don't notice the change from Snow Leopard to Lion doesn't mean other people don't.

I haven't had an issue with Lion as far as speed or lag. I don't like that the contacts and calendar apps have drop down menus that show your contact groups and other calendars, I wish they were side bars instead. But my issues with Lion are more so small things like that. I've definitely never had an issue running Lion on any of my 3 Macs.

Mad Mac Maniac
Apr 30, 2012, 10:18 AM
Other than a few minor tweaks, enhancements, and minor features we won't see a whole lot of change between now and release.

I honestly believe during WWDC we will get a couple more features that makes iOS to OS X a seemless experience.

This is the ONLY thing that I think may happen which would give ML an additional major feature or two. Because there may be some features that only can be announced/released in conjunction with iOS 6 so Apple hasn't been able to announce them till WWDC.

5aga
Apr 30, 2012, 10:20 AM
one feature i would in ML is for Apple to drop the ugly skeuomorphic design in some of the apps. in all honesty its both tacky and useless.

nuckinfutz
Apr 30, 2012, 11:09 AM
Some of the commentary in this thread is hilarious.

It started out about possible new features in ML and then was thread jacked by OS X Lion dissenters.

I find Lion to have its idiosyncrasies but overall I like the experience more than Snow Leopard. The Quick Look changes have been significant to me as is the improved mail.app.

Not only has Apple not lost its way it continues to meld iOS and OS X where it makes sense.

I keep reading that Apple no longer cares about the Mac and that makes no sense. They realize the moneymaker is mobile devices but that unifying much of the lower level architecture makes sense.

I think all of the big features (save for modern filesystem) are covered. What's needed now is a whole lot of polish.

I want improvements to authorization that scale both OS X and iOS. I want the most popular social sites to be authenticated against my Apple ID or OS X login.

I want more of my preferences and account settings sync through iCloud.

I want easy transfer of iTunes content to my mobile devices without having to do a wifi or tethered sync

I want Airdrop in iOS

The late Steve Jobs said that the Mac was now just a peer device. Which means fleshing out the mobile OS and adding more management features and then beefing up the sharing or foundation between the two platforms.

Lion got us close but Mountain Lion and subsequent OS updates should really solidy.

that1guyy
Apr 30, 2012, 03:10 PM
Apple is capable of doing their own testing. They don't have to release every big feature for the DP if they want to keep it a surprise.

I can see ML being a lot faster than Lion and my dirty little secret wish is a Siri optimized for actual computing.

Mad Mac Maniac
Apr 30, 2012, 08:40 PM
I can see ML being a lot faster than Lion and my dirty little secret wish is a Siri optimized for actual computing.

nah.. Siri is nowhere near ready for the Mac. It wouldn't even be useful at this point. Siri may come to iPad in iOS 6 but even that's not certain. Siri really works best on a phone with its current feature set. Siri may come to Mac next year or the year after, but it's just too early now

andrewpturko
May 1, 2012, 12:11 AM
nah.. Siri is nowhere near ready for the Mac. It wouldn't even be useful at this point. Siri may come to iPad in iOS 6 but even that's not certain. Siri really works best on a phone with its current feature set. Siri may come to Mac next year or the year after, but it's just too early now

You never know...

I could see Siri being accessible to the Mac; there's a lot of uses for it and I don't think there is a need for explanation when one can think of the possibilities for himself.

Too early? No. Siri's development pace would seem rather fast compared to most... it just needs a few more thousand commands (with multiple "variations" interpreting that one command can mean the same exact thing as the next).

Will it be implemented into 10.8? Probably not (due to the stage of development). We'll wait for WWDC just to be sure though....there's always that one last thing (a good example being the new interface, specifically the dock, for Leopard 10.5 at WWDC '07)

and as far as accessing Siri goes...
...just swipe from the left edge of the trackpad, opposite of the notification center. (http://player.vimeo.com/video/40725761) :-)

one feature i would in ML is for Apple to drop the ugly skeuomorphic design in some of the apps.

Are you kidding, Apple is all about simple consistency.

Where have you been since iCloud, the Mac + iOS ecosystem, and 1998?

treichert
May 1, 2012, 02:28 AM
nah.. Siri is nowhere near ready for the Mac. It wouldn't even be useful at this point. Siri may come to iPad in iOS 6 but even that's not certain. Siri really works best on a phone with its current feature set. Siri may come to Mac next year or the year after, but it's just too early now

DP1 already had a few pieces of Siri in it, like a Contactsplugin in /System/Library/Assitant/. A folder that in DP2 and DP3 is curiously missing.

Mad Mac Maniac
May 1, 2012, 09:20 AM
You never know...

I could see Siri being accessible to the Mac; there's a lot of uses for it and I don't think there is a need for explanation when one can think of the possibilities for himself.

Too early? No. Siri's development pace would seem rather fast compared to most... it just needs a few more thousand commands (with multiple "variations" interpreting that one command can mean the same exact thing as the next).

Will it be implemented into 10.8? Probably not (due to the stage of development). We'll wait for WWDC just to be sure though....there's always that one last thing (a good example being the new interface, specifically the dock, for Leopard 10.5 at WWDC '07)


Obviously anything is possible which is why I said "nah..." instead of "no way" but I just personally don't see it happening. For one reason, in the history of my Apple experience I have never seen/heard of Apple announcing a major feature so late in the development. You meantion leopard in '07, that is a bit before my time (my first Mac Purchase was Dec of '07) but that sounds like a pretty minor graphical thing, not a major system wide feature.

Also, you admit yourself it needs "a few more thousand commands" and I just don't see Apple rushing it at this point while it's still in beta. I also would think that Siri would be released on the iPad before the Mac, because that is so much easier to do. I also believe that if Apple truly is releasing a TV with Siri late this year/early next year that would have top priority over the Mac at the moment.

Sure, anything is possible, but I would label it as highly improbable.

Sidenote: I did have a thought the other day. I've always assumed that the Siri beta on iPhone was the beta of the iPhone Siri, but after thinking about it realized that Siri beta from the beginning could actually be the beta test (i.e. the most widespread way to gather dialect, terminology, phrasing, etc) for the rollout of the Siri feature across iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Apple TV. And in that mindset I could possibly see a surprise Siri announcement at WWDC for the removal of the "beta" tag and the release across the Mac and iPad.

----------

DP1 already had a few pieces of Siri in it, like a Contactsplugin in /System/Library/Assitant/. A folder that in DP2 and DP3 is curiously missing.

Right. Of course Apple is doing a lot of testing, research and development, etc on Siri for Mac. I don't think anyone would deny that. But that doesn't mean it will be released on ML. That doesn't even mean it will be released ever on the Mac

bedifferent
May 1, 2012, 12:09 PM
I still miss a feature in one of Leopard's beta's for iChat, "Answering Machine". It allowed you to create an away video message and for others to leave a video or audio message in return. Was a great idea that never made it into the commercial release. The Messages app would benefit greatly from such a concept, especially for the deaf.

slagathor001
May 1, 2012, 01:30 PM
I still miss a feature in one of Leopard's beta's for iChat, "Answering Machine". It allowed you to create an away video message and for others to leave a video or audio message in return. Was a great idea that never made it into the commercial release. The Messages app would benefit greatly from such a concept, especially for the deaf.

Whoa, where can you ask or suggest apple to add that ?

Paradoxally
May 1, 2012, 02:34 PM
I'm sorry, I couldn't leave this thread without saying something.

Snow Leopard is NOT slow, it is NOT buggy, and it is NOT flaky.

I run Lion on a 2007 Mac Pro (2.66 quad core), a 15 inch 2009 MacBook Pro, a 2011 MacBook Air, and a 2010 MacBook Pro. All of these machines run slower than they did under Snow Leopard.

To say that Apple has dropped the ball with Lion is ingenuous at best, and at worst is mere trolling with reason.

That's all I have to say about that.

Fixed for you.

Saying Lion is not BUGGY is laughable.

Mal
May 1, 2012, 02:45 PM
Fixed for you.

Saying Lion is not BUGGY is laughable.

Not really. I have experienced no bugs at all in 10.7.3, and minor ones at best before that. Many users share my experience. Of course there are some bugs that have hit some people, but to call it buggy would require that there be some significant number of bugs that have been experience by a large portion of users, and that's simply not true. Lion is stable, bug-free, and enjoyable for the vast majority of users out there. They simply don't post that on these boards very often, because they don't have any reason to.

jW

bedifferent
May 1, 2012, 02:54 PM
Whoa, where can you ask or suggest apple to add that ?

Apple Mac OS X Feedback (http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html)

I wish I still had the beta's with that feature, was quite cool. It would make perfect sense to utilize it in OS X Messages with video chatting commonplace in iDevices and Mac's.

RoelJuun
May 1, 2012, 05:16 PM
Not really. I have experienced no bugs at all in 10.7.3, and minor ones at best before that. Many users share my experience.

jW

- Garageband put in fullscreen, switching around suddenly Garageband out of frame.
- Increase size of icons in Finder with the bar in the lower-richt sometimes does not work
- Dragging pictures from websites to the desktop is often laggy and sometimes needs multiple takes
- Opened a big file, no free ram although 4 gig is 'unused'. Let me use it!
- Quicklook does not work most of the time on my old Macbook
- Windows often open wrongly when computer is restarted. Mail always opens even when I stated it not to in system preferences, same for Word
- When a new item in iCal is made and the calendar is changed, the subject disappears -> need to retype it. Annoying. Same when changing 'place'
- Random safari hangs
- Random no-network problems still exist
- Applications show up 3 times in launchpad
- Opening a large text-edit file makes my TextEdit AND Finder fill all my ram and make my computer unusable
- Slow animations (Drag & drop, mission control, scrolling in Safari)
- Dragging file through Finder is painfully slow in opening folders (yes you can change it in preferences, still doesn't work nicely)
- Final Cut Pro X, when using second monitor as the viewer and than going fullscreen leaves the viewer on the second monitor while the rest of the application is in another space
- Gif files wrong speed in quick look


My iMac (with 8 gigs of ram) had a fresh install only 3 months ago. The HDD has plenty of space left. Almost every of the bugs above have I encountered this single day. I don't do anything heavy. On Snow Leopard it performed amazing but I need some of the Lion features. That most people won't notice the bugs does not mean they don't exist.



On topic:

There will be no more new features, I think ML is Lion's polishing. Well at least I hope so. When I look at the list of bugs I wrote down it's actually pretty sad. It won't be like SL as it does not offer under the hood upgrades such as GCD.

bedifferent
May 1, 2012, 05:42 PM
I just want to say, I love you all! Really, I do. :)

roadbloc
May 1, 2012, 05:56 PM
I expect some sort of filesystem announcement. Lion included core storage, Mountain Lion is due to do something to fix/replace HFS imho.

Given the ZFS files found in iOS recently, i hope it is ZFS related :)

Since Apple's aims as of recently have been to do nothing but make the filesystem redundant to the user, I doubt they'll be even considering this.

ajvizzgamer101
May 1, 2012, 07:38 PM
Other than a few minor tweaks, enhancements, and minor features we won't see a whole lot of change between now and release.



This is the ONLY thing that I think may happen which would give ML an additional major feature or two. Because there may be some features that only can be announced/released in conjunction with iOS 6 so Apple hasn't been able to announce them till WWDC.

Yeah, that's what I mean. :)

throAU
May 1, 2012, 07:41 PM
Since Apple's aims as of recently have been to do nothing but make the filesystem redundant to the user, I doubt they'll be even considering this.

Making the filesystem transparent to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.

blow45
May 1, 2012, 08:05 PM
Making the filesystem transparent to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.

Excellent point, but I think you meant making the file system non transparent to the end user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.

throAU
May 1, 2012, 09:26 PM
How about:

Making the filesystem INVISIBLE to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.

?

:D


edit:
seriously though there's so much scope for ZFS on the mac - time machine snapshots (zfs local snapshot, roll up to remote storage with zfs send), remote backups to icloud (zfs send), SSD caching, error correction on RAID arrays with WAY faster rebuild time (for the pro users), block level de-dupe/compression (will be a win when apps are sandboxed more and all need their own copies of libraries), etc.

blow45
May 1, 2012, 09:46 PM
How about:

Making the filesystem INVISIBLE to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.

?

:D



yeah, that could work too. ;):D

excellent points about zfs, would have made a lot of sense back when apple was apple computer...

Unfortunately for us, the computer engineers now are these (former apple) guys and they ask for a premium: http://tenscomplement.com/our-products/zevo-silver-edition . Apparently apple hasn't granted them (or us) the privilege to boot os x from it though... It's one think not being ar..ed to develop, it's another when you don't grant others the right to supplement the os to make up for it...

From devs website an inkling of how hard apple are making for others to complement os x with a better fs:
Note that some applications and services are hard-wired to only work with HFS+ even though all the necessary support is available from ZFS.

That's why when people say hey lion costs only $25 I am thinking, yeah, but with the work that's gone into it, it should cost less...

edit:just want to add zfs didn't come to the mac because apple and sun couldn't come to an agreement in the licensing terms, and the idea now seems as dead as ever despite LE's oracle having purchased sun and being best buddies with SJ.

Mal
May 1, 2012, 09:56 PM
[snip list of bugs(?)]

I have not experienced any of those bugs. Not simply haven't noticed them or don't use those features, but they don't happen for me. I'm not questioning whether they do for you, but unless you can show me that a significant portion of users are affected by a significant number of bugs (as I stated in my last post), stating that Lion is "BUGGY" is simply not justified, especially not in the context of advising that people not use it.

jW

TheGdog
May 1, 2012, 10:40 PM
I have not experienced any of those bugs. Not simply haven't noticed them or don't use those features, but they don't happen for me. I'm not questioning whether they do for you, but unless you can show me that a significant portion of users are affected by a significant number of bugs (as I stated in my last post), stating that Lion is "BUGGY" is simply not justified, especially not in the context of advising that people not use it.

jW

I have to say I have found very few problems with lion and I use a lot every day. The only issue I find, is that shutdown and startup are very slow compared to SL.

blow45
May 2, 2012, 01:29 AM
I have not experienced any of those bugs. Not simply haven't noticed them or don't use those features, but they don't happen for me. I'm not questioning whether they do for you, but unless you can show me that a significant portion of users are affected by a significant number of bugs (as I stated in my last post), stating that Lion is "BUGGY" is simply not justified, especially not in the context of advising that people not use it.

jW

jW,

What you are requiring is untenable. Neither he, nor anyone can demonstrate this to you , not in lion, not in piece of commercial software. Even if someone's supporting lion (or again in commercial software) they cannot perform and then evidence a study on bugs and users reporting them. Only apple can do this and they have of course vested interests not. So you are asking to be provided with evidence that cannot be attained.

Even if someone could provide you with such evidence, they don't have to prove that a significant number of users are troubled with significant bugs. We are in 2012, if this was the case that significant no of users had a significant (whatever this means btw) no. of bugs that wouldn't mean lion is buggy, that would be that it's the biggest regression in software engineering history.

A lot of us have come to the understanding that lion is buggy via a. personal experience (bugs in preview, safari, ical, smb networking, app store and mail for me, in four macs I own - this is almost every core os application - and similar bugs in friends' macs), b. reading the .1 reports of other users and their experiences, every single one buggy, and in every single one apple far behind fixing these bugs c. reading support threads on apple's forums about lion and comparing them to previous os releases. No one can prove this to you though. Lion is far buggier than any previous os releases since tiger, and people who are old enough to remember and compare can attest to this. It has been a sloppy and rushed release with not enough care put into it.

Besides the bugs there are ui changes such as save state, autosave, duplicate, auto shut down of apps, reopen windows that have been poorly implemented and have not provided the supposed benefits they were to provide. Almost no one is ecstatic about them and thinks that these brought anything great to the table to os x, some people don't mind that much, and they've caused a lot of nuisance to a number of users.

I am sure if we did take a poll here and asked do you find autosave, auto shut down, and save state & reopen windows useful and would you mind if they were not there to begin with as in sl, I would wager that upwards of 80% (at least) wouldn't mind at all for them to go away, and I am sure the majority would be relieved that they did go back to how they were in sl. This whole cross pollination of os x from ios in said areas has been a marketing sham with no real added benefits on aggregate and a lot of nuisances to users. Let's face it, apple didn't bring much to lion, no fs change, no resolution independence, some security upgrades and a rebranded less capable in a lot of respects (more in others) mobileme, and they had to show something, to market lion via something so enter a few ipad like features like the once I mentioned of very dubious use or need in os x (why would an app such as text edit autoshutdown in os x with systems of 2gb ram and upwards? Why should an app save its state (this was due to ios not having real multitasking that the need presented itself)).

That's why people refer to lion as apple's vista, because a. it's buggy (and I am afraid to say it's buggier than vista...) and b. it aims for some ui and new ways of doing things that are neither very helpful nor well implemented and verging on bloatware.

throAU
May 2, 2012, 02:06 AM
edit:just want to add zfs didn't come to the mac because apple and sun couldn't come to an agreement in the licensing terms, and the idea now seems as dead as ever despite LE's oracle having purchased sun and being best buddies with SJ.

Sure on that? The license for ZFS is effectively BSD-ish, and FreeBSD, Nexenta, etc have no issues including it. ZFS-related code was apparently recently found in iOS 5.1, hence my hopes for it coming back to OS X.

roadbloc
May 2, 2012, 04:07 AM
Making the filesystem transparent to the user doesn't mean they can get rid of it underneath.

True. But I still doubt it'll be done. New OS X features are becoming like new iOS features. All looks but no trousers. Something flashy and shiney and potentially useful to the user, but no refinement underneath. Or at least that is the way they're being advertised. All the under-the-hood stuff is rarely mentioned by Apple.

blow45
May 2, 2012, 04:33 AM
Sure on that? The license for ZFS is effectively BSD-ish, and FreeBSD, Nexenta, etc have no issues including it. ZFS-related code was apparently recently found in iOS 5.1, hence my hopes for it coming back to OS X.

I don't know how zfs code was found in ios, and it what form, because ios has and will have nothing to do with zfs for certain. The license might be ccdl but there are other issues involving support, exclusivity and maintenance that apple wanted to dodge (not pay) and couldn't, as far as I can remember. I also believe zfs carries a bandwidth premium that os x cannot meet seamlessly... That's what I nkow at least. :)

bedifferent
May 2, 2012, 04:19 PM
Whoa, where can you ask or suggest apple to add that ?

Here's the old post on MacRumors when the "Answering Machine" feature was in one of their Leopard beta's in 2006. It allowed for a video away message and for friends to leave video messages.

Leopard iChat Answering Machine (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=260406)

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article/answeringichat.jpg

The new iChat answering preference tab allows users to record a Video greeting to serve as an answering message when users are away from their desk. The caller may then leave a message. At this time, there only appears to be partial functionality implemented.

The ability to record video-clips has previously been suggested as a tie in to the iPhone to provide a "call ahead" feature.

Would be a great feature for FaceTime. Wonder why Apple dropped it.

AliClifton
May 3, 2012, 09:54 AM
I really hope there's more to come, right now it's a pretty bleak outlook for people like me who are most looking forward to the imessage client and a shut screen that remembers the unchecked box for 'start all open apps on next boot' or whatever it says....imo right now ML offers nothing that can be described as new 'features', rather the kind of thing i'd expect from an insignificant update

Edit: oh and please god let's hope they rethink the incredibly ugly new background of dashboard, or do one better and scrap/redesign dashboard completely - if there is one area of OSX crying out for iOS style implementation, then it's there.