Before I Give Up

bluewooster said:

Before I give up - any advice?

Im trying to convert the mkvs I made from my blurays and DVDs (with makemkv) to mp4 but preserve softcoded subs. I think i've read every post pertaining to this on the forum. I've tried a multitude of programs (handbrake, subler, ivi, mkvtools, media xcode, dvd catalyst, etc) without success. I could render no PGS subs in handbrake but this was otherwise excellent. Dvd catalyst was also quite good but burns in the subs.

The stumbling block for me is the subtitles. These are not an option for us - we need them. But I'm picky and want them softcoded.

Currently i use a nettop with xbmc that plays everything perfectly. But we use our appletv for photos, music, itunes, etc and id like to be able to simply access everything on the apple tv. (Ive jailbroken it and have xbmc on it but it chokes on the bluray mkvs).

Any ideas or is this just not do-able at this moment?

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Are you having a problem with all subtitles, DVD and Bluray? Or just one type? From your description, I sense a lot of frustration, which is understandable, but am not quite picking up what exactly you are having a problem with.

I don't think PGS subs work in .mp4. Just like .vob subs, you will need an OCR solution to convert them to .srt. D-subtitler can be used on Mac (Suprip on Windows) for this purpose.

It may just be easier to grab the appropriate .srt from the internet. I use Subs.to because this site includes frame rate (important for syncing). Unfortunately it is sometimes difficult to find a .srt that is perfectly synced but often this can be adjusted using the offset option in Subler.

I go out of my way to have soft subtitles as well - so I understand your frustration.

Let's break this down to make things a little simpler though.

DVD - this is super simple and you should have very little issues. The biggest issue you will run into is when the DVD itself doesn't include a subtitle or closed caption track. But my workflow is simply this:

Rip the DVD with something like Mac the ripper or ripit. Once it is ripped (note that you could just feed it directly to handbrake) feed it into handbrake and click on the subtitle button. Under track select the track you are looking for. I'm at work and don't have handbrake open in front of me but there is usually a closed caption track of some kind to select. It may not be in all languages though.

Blu ray - this one is more complicated. There are tons of solutions, even on this forum, for doing this. But they all require OCR and some slight baby sitting that I have no real desire to do. So I just fine the .srt file online - subscene.com is where I usually go.

The problems I usually run into is extended editions. For some reason the release scene loves to only do the extended versions. And you may have to download 1 or 2 different files looking for the right one but I think I have always found a .srt for everything. Tv shows sometimes get a little more complicated but usually just google search something like 'Lost season 1 srt' will turn up what you are looking for.

On the DVD side of things it really is a solved problem and you should have very few problems - especially if the source has the file you are wanting. Blu ray is a little more complicated but definitely not impossible.

Sedulous said:

I don't think PGS subs work in .mp4. Just like .vob subs, you will need an OCR solution to convert them to .srt. D-subtitler can be used on Mac (Suprip on Windows) for this purpose.

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Very true on PGS. That said a patch is being tested in hb to burn in PGS subs to a mp4. pass thru on mkv. This of course does not solve the OPs request for a soft sub in a mp4 however. Just thought I'd mention it.

Sedulous said:

It may just be easier to grab the appropriate .srt from the internet. I use Subs.to because this site includes frame rate (important for syncing). Unfortunately it is sometimes difficult to find a .srt that is perfectly synced but often this can be adjusted using the offset option in Subler.

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Agreed as well. HB also has an offset option when importing a .srt. Again just mentioning it.

dynaflash said:

Very true on PGS. That said a patch is being tested in hb to burn in PGS subs to a mp4. pass thru on mkv. This of course does not solve the OPs request for a soft sub in a mp4 however. Just thought I'd mention it.

Agreed as well. HB also has an offset option when importing a .srt. Again just mentioning it.

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Handbrake doesn't remux, so you sort of need to know the offset prior to starting a transcode. Or is there something I am missing?

Sedulous said:

Handbrake doesn't remux, so you sort of need to know the offset prior to starting a transcode. Or is there something I am missing?

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Live preview will honor an imported srt. so you could use live preview to test and see if you are in sync. Was only pointing out that hb has offset as well as subler. Also you could observe the offset in vlc or mplayer if you wanted to test it ahead of time. Just an observation.

All my mkvs are from purchased Blu ray movies as well.

My work flow is simply this: convert the Blu ray to mkv using makemkv, encode using handbrake. Find a srt file and add it with subler. Save the file - load up the file in QuickTime and turn on the subtitle option - quickly scan beginning, middle and near the end of the movie to see if the subs are synced. If not - first thing I look for is another file to download. If I really can't find one then I'll use subler to offset the time.

Since you are wanting a soft subtitle - its way more flexible to find/add a subtitle track way after encoding the movie.

bluewooster said:

Thanks all for the advice!

You're right - the DVDs are no problem under handbrake - i should have been more clear.

I will definitely explore obtaining srt subs. I had thought that syncing them would be difficult but, as my mkvs are all from purchased blurays, maybe the files i need exist? You then use subler to add it in the mp4 when you are recoding?

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Just open the mp4/m4v in Subler, and literally drop the .srt into the track window. It might ask you to assign it a language. Hit save. Shouldn't take more than 3 seconds.

bluewooster said:

Thanks all for the advice!

You're right - the DVDs are no problem under handbrake - i should have been more clear.

I will definitely explore obtaining srt subs. I had thought that syncing them would be difficult but, as my mkvs are all from purchased blurays, maybe the files i need exist? You then use subler to add it in the mp4 when you are recoding?

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I transcode with HB then add the srt to the mp4 using Subler. Save. Then watch the movie using VLC, with my cellphone stopwatch in hand. Measure the offset. Go back into sublet, and change the offset as needed. Save. Recheck the subtitle sync and you're done.

bluewooster said:

Ive got an older computer so conversions with handbrake arent to be taken lightly for me. As it looks like i have a lot of converting to do, i was toying with the idea of a new system (its time anyway). It has also occurrd to me that i could probably just buy all the shows i already own thru itunes (still cheaper than a new computer but a bit redundant). However, it seems that most of my shows dont have subtitles on itunes either so id be no better off!

At any rate, thanks again for the help - ive already done one episode complete with soft subs. At one episode a day, i should be done just in time for the apple tv 4!

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Remuxing should not take much time. CPU speed is not a factor since really all you are doing is copying the data streams from the .mkv to .mp4 container. Literally should take no more than 10 minutes for even a large file (>4 GB).

bluewooster said:

Do I have to extract the VOB from the mkv (I made using MakeMKV) and then convert it to .srt with some kind of OCR? Any recommendations on programs? Is this going to drive me insane?

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Most modern TV shows should have closed captions, which can be added in handbrake. Have you looked for closed captions under the subtitle option in Handbrake?

slothrob said:

Most modern TV shows should have closed captions, which can be added in handbrake. Have you looked for closed captions under the subtitle option in Handbrake?

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In the mp4 container, Handbrake will only burn them in. If you want soft subs, you either have to add an srt or make your final container an mkv.



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bluewooster said:

2. Now that I'm handbraking full time, my computer is really showing its age (about 1.5 hr to do a 40 minute episode - average 24 fps). Any recommendations? (Sorry, I've already seen many of the comparisons posted in some of the lengthy threads here but I'm looking for someone to "convince" me to buy an imac!)

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You should feel lucky! Some of my conversions have been full length movies at 4fps!!!

I use Subler's subtitle OCR capability to create an srt from the vob sub. If you are really picky, you can then use Jubler to edit the srt. Somewhere in this forum, I have outlined the Subler process steps to generate an srt.

bluewooster said:

2. Now that I'm handbraking full time, my computer is really showing its age (about 1.5 hr to do a 40 minute episode - average 24 fps). Any recommendations? (Sorry, I've already seen many of the comparisons posted in some of the lengthy threads here but I'm looking for someone to "convince" me to buy an imac!)

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Handbrake uses available cores really quite well. It will "nearly" max out whatever hardware you have. So if you do this a lot, you want the most of everything: most cores, most threads, best and fastest processor. The price delta for quad core vs dual core is not big and that is close to 2X right there. Don't forget last-generation used hardware can be fantastic value. I have a quad-i7 imac (mid-2010, 2.93G) and it screams (110fps - 225fps). The Sandy Bridge i7's (current gen) are even better.

You can use benchmark (Xbench, Geekbench) results to see what gain you would get. I suggest looking at the CPU benchmark alone, not the composite, as HB speed is dependent nearly entirely on the CPU, not hard drive speed, etc. Then you can look at what different price point hardware, new or used, would get you. Hope that helps.

mic j said:

In the mp4 container, Handbrake will only burn them in. If you want soft subs, you either have to add an srt or make your final container an mkv.

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No. Handbrake can add Closed Captions to an .m4v container as soft subtitles that can be turned on and off with the center button of the aTV remote.

slothrob said:

No. Handbrake can add Closed Captions to an .m4v container as soft subtitles that can be turned on and off with the center button of the aTV remote.

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The OP mention he wanted to do "softcoded subs". Closed caption and subtitles are different.

mic j said:

The OP mention he wanted to do "softcoded subs". Closed caption and subtitles are different.

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It's semantics, isn't it? He wants printed words that you can turn on and off.

Either way, I was replying to your comment that you can only burn in Closed Captions, which isn't the case.

slothrob said:

It's semantics, isn't it? He wants printed words that you can turn on and off.

Either way, I was replying to your comment that you can only burn in Closed Captions, which isn't the case.

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No, it's not semantics. Closed caption will often look less "refined" than subtitles. Also, CC's will have things like [music playing], [sigh], [loud noise] etc alerting those who are hearing impaired to what else is going on in the movie besides dialog. Subtitles are generally only a translation of dialog.

bluewooster said:

Mic J - big thank you! That OCR in subler works easily and "well enough" for me! Here's his post for anyone else in a similar predicament:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1345900/

Thanks again!

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Happy to be of service.

Also, be aware that there is an "offset" setting in HB and Subler to correct any timing problems. I prefer to check the subtitle timing after muxing with Subler (using VLC), then do the transcode with HB. Nothing for frustrating than spending hours transcoding a movie to find out he subtitles don't match the dialog. It's more of a problem with downloaded srt's than Subler srt creation, however.